# scaley mite legs



## nannypattyrn

I have been treating my roosts and coop with permethium powder. We keep our coop and run as clean as possible. I have been using a preventative spray from the feed store and vaseline on their legs. I'm not seeing any new activity but I'm wondering how to better treat the leg scales?

I was wondering if I could mix vaseline and the permethium powder to make a salve so that it would get under the scales and stay on at least for a while?


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## seminole wind

I do. A few times coated with vase line and sprinkled seven or poultry dust. Thanks for reminding me I should do it too.


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## Alaskan

Some of my hens have scales that are a bit raised.... Not smooth like a pullet.

Is that simple age? Or mites that I can't see?


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## seminole wind

It's probably mites. How do they compare to other chicken legs?


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## nannypattyrn

Some of my girls legs are very raised and rough. I can post a picture soon so someone can tell me for sure, but I don't know what else it could be.


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## Alaskan

All of my older chickens have scales that are a bit raised... But I look, and look, and do not see mites. I have had the kids look too, they haven't seen any either.

I will take a photo.


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## nannypattyrn

I don't think one can see those mites. I don't see any on their bodies.


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## MichaelA69

I use Nustock, which is a mange medicine.

Since it is a bit pasty, I cut it with jojoba oil for better penetration under the scales. I'll wear some blue nitrile gloves and massage the solution into the entire leg and toes. Sulfur is a mite killer, and the oil suffocates them (both of which Nustock has. My dad used to use nicotine sulfate mixed with linseed oil as a roost paint. It has been outlawed since the 80's probably because some parent let their kid eat some of it. Emulsified concentrates make good roost paints. Ravap EC is one I prefer to use, but newer ones like Bifen IT last around 3 months so it can be done when a thorough coops cleaning is done. Of course it is always important to read the labels thoroughly before using.


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## nannypattyrn

Where can I find these meds?


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## MichaelA69

Nustock is in most feed stores, generally in the horse section: 
http://m.nustock.com/

Ravap EC can be found here: http://www.scbt.com/datasheet-363404.html

Bifen IT can be found here: http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/bifen-it-p-226.html


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## MichaelA69

nannypattyrn said:


> I don't think one can see those mites. I don't see any on their bodies.


You can't see Cnemidocoptes mutans (scaly leg mites) since they burrow under scales and are very small (.5 mm).


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## Alaskan

Oh crikey! Then I do have the buggers.

How the blazes will I get my dirt floor coops clear of it? 

And treating all the flock for lice was bad enough.. Treating the bunch for leg mites might do me in!!!!!!


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## Alaskan

My dreams of an organic and chemical free place have banished!!!! 

I am thinking of dousing the chickens and the coop in gasoline.


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## nannypattyrn

Thank you!


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## MichaelA69

You're welcome, nannypattrn. Alaskan, I'm not saying douse your coop environment with chemicals regularly, but preventing areas for pests to populate is my agenda since I've dealt with them in the past. Dirt floors in a coop would be the least ideal, but possibly amending the floor area with sand, and keeping it dry as possible will help. I have one coop with a concrete floor and a layer of pine shavings, and another with a raised wood floor and a layer of pine shavings. You could always build a raised wood floor to your coop using pressure treated wood set on piers for floor joists, and lay your floor. Heart redwood is rare, but impenetrable to termites if you can get it. You could also build in another location if it would be better. Building a coop is lots of fun since you can do it to your specifications.

Here's some info regarding mites:
http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2540&Itemid=2816


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## nannypattyrn

Ok, I don't know if you can tell anything or not. The first set of legs don't appear to have mites but the second pair are pretty bad. I have a couple that are worse.


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## Alaskan

Michael,

I do not want to build a floor in my dirt floor coops, since that would create a wonderful rodent habitat.

I also like my coops... No interest in tearing them down and starting over. 

My dirt floors (well... I have 4 coops with dirt floors) one has lots of sand on the floor (biggest coop and the one that I think has scaly mites), and it is a great coop. The poop pretty much disappears in the sand floor, it is nice and dry.

HOWEVER, it has been raining almost non-stop for maybe two months, so all of my runs are muddy. I just can't figure out what to do about the runs... Everything is either lots of money or a horrid amount of work.

I wonder how the muddy runs effect the leg mites? Can I toss garden lime in them to help kill the mites? Or should I wait until the rain stops and the ground hardens up before I try to treat all of the chickens and clean the coops?

Dunno.

I was trying to look closely at their legs today.... They don't look horrific, but I think that they do have some leg mites.

I have never used anything in my coops..... I never used anything on the flock 
I took care of as a kid... I guess they were always healthy enough that the parasitic load was always manageable for the hens... And I just never noticed.

When I clean coops... I scrape out the poop trays.... Put in fresh whatever I have in the tray....

The one wood floored coop gets the floor scraped out, maybe swept out... The dirt floor ones get the floor raked out only very rarely. (Except for the ducks... Their coop always needs a shovel).

I dunno.... I am not happy with putting "stuff" in all the crevices of my coops.

I would be OK with splashing some bleach around, but 
I am not sure how helpful that would be.

In the house we clean with vinegar or dish soap.


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## nannypattyrn

The lime is more for odor than anything and I'm not sure that DE does anything but I have a bunch to use up. We put dirt under the nest just to prevent rodents from building nests, but no dirt in the cracks and crevices. Bleach 1:2 or 1:3 dilution makes it smell good for a few days and helps with bacteria. Vinegar probably just good and safer.


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## dawg53

Alaskan and Patty. Scaley leg mites can literally eat though a chickens leg or foot. The reason why scales are raised is due to the look alike dirt excrement trapped in between scales. It takes alot of mites to cause that much debris and damage, that's alot of mite excrement.
You can soak the infected birds feet/legs in warm (not hot) epsom salts water for about 20 minutes. The warm epsom salts water will soften scales and the hardened excrement. Then take a soft headed toothbrush and gently scrub between the scales as best as you can while the bird is soaking. Some scales and debris should fall away while gently scrubbing, try not to cause bleeding.
Then remove the bird from the water and dry her feet/legs off and liberally apply the Nu Stock. Make sure you shake the tube well, and wear disposable gloves. It might not be possible to treat the ground or even inside the coop for scaley leg mites. However it's best to coat all roosts/perches with Nu Stock.
Nu Stock is an all natural product made from pine oil, sulfur and mineral oil, AND it works.
http://www.herbalhealer.com/nustock.html


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## Alaskan

The problem is that I read that the Nustock needs to be reapplied every three days for two weeks to a month. 

You have got to be kidding!! Because of the mud, all feet would have to be washed, dried, then Nustock applied... 

I am thinking working slow, 10 minutes a chicken? Working fast, maybe 5 minutes each?

And then there is the issue of how to wash the feet... 

It is close to freezing here.. Cold water doesn't wash well. 

Arg!!! 

That is HOURS every third day.


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## Alaskan

Not that I am not going to treat them... I am just really hemming and hawing about the entire thing.

Supposedly dipping the legs in gasoline kills the nits too, so only two applications are needed. Two total, and you are done. 

Of course, gas is toxic... But the 1/10 the work is tempting.


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## MichaelA69

Alaskan said:


> Not that I am not going to treat them... I am just really hemming and hawing about the entire thing.
> 
> Supposedly dipping the legs in gasoline kills the nits too, so only two applications are needed. Two total, and you are done.
> 
> Of course, gas is toxic... But the 1/10 the work is tempting.


Are you sure you don't mean diesel oil?


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## nannypattyrn

I think I had heard diesel oil, I don't remember for sure. Either way I need to get on it more aggressively.


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## Alaskan

I will have to research it.... I am hoping to start the first treatment the beginning of this coming week.


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## Alaskan

Humm... So, what do you'll think about coop and run treatment?

1. Don't bother, with a muddy run and a dirt floored coop (coops are dry) there is nothing that will work

2. Don't bother, some things might work but wild birds will bring it back in anyway

3. Just do a normal coop cleaning and treat the legs.


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## nannypattyrn

Well we're not muddy here (yet) & I've treated the coop and roosts with permethrin. I've been working on the legs but not aggressively enough apparently. What worked best for us was old wood chips from my son's flower beds just in the walkways of the run. Anything else just gunks up.


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## Alaskan

I worry that wood chips will mold and get super nasty

Also, I do NOT like the half life of permethrin, super scary stuff.

It totally freaks me out that people keep using it willy nilly.


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## nannypattyrn

The wood chips break down quickly and I didn't get mold. I'll have to check into the permethrin. Something needs to be used ,so I'm thinking it's the least harmful than some of the others.


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## nannypattyrn

ps: the chips I used were old and breaking down even before I speead them. The chickens loved to scratch around in them.


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## seminole wind

MichaelA69 said:


> Are you sure you don't mean diesel oil?


I thought it was kerosene like they used on people lice 70 years or so. 
Best thing I think is thick like vase line put on from bottom to top so it fills those crevices.


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## Alaskan

Vaseline has to be reapplied many, many times. Since you are just suffocating the lice... And nothing toxic is being used.


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## Alaskan

Should I mention that I have more than 4 hens.


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## nannypattyrn

I have 16 girls and 1 boy. I think about 4 or 5 need treatment.


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## Alaskan

Nope, if it looks like one needs it, then you need to treat all of them (from what I read) so yep.... Almost two hours or more for one treatment... Not counting catching time. 

-barf-


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## nannypattyrn

:thumbdown:


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## seminole wind

Catch them at night when they're perched. Like with house birds, I would use a leg mite spray, or even sevin liquid spray (5%). Or I do semi watered down horse fly spray . I do the same with dusting. I go in at night (before I shower) and sprinkle and work the powder downwards for their body.


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## nannypattyrn

Have any of you heard about using ceresote in the coop for mites? I was out running an errand and that word popped into my mind and remembered dad using it . No clear memory of how and on what. I could be imaging also, it's been a very long time. ....


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## Alaskan

I too vaguely remember people painting perches with creosote.... 

It is nice and toxic, and would ooze into all of the wood cracks etc.


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## Alaskan

OK... I found this article:

Quote"Scaly leg mite causes intense irritation by burrowing under the scales of the leg, producing at first a whitish film and then mounds of white or pale yellow debris firmly attached to the leg (Figure 3). In severe cases the crusts can cut off the circulation in the leg and gangrene can set in. On a dark-legged bird, the beginnings of the white crusts can be easily seen. There is a musty smell (like mice) on the legs.
Organic control is achieved by dunking the legs once a week for three weeks in a wide-mouthed jar of surgical spirit, or putting a thick layer of petroleum jelly on the legs, which cuts off the air supply to the mites but is rather messy. Old-fashioned remedies of diesel or creosote should not be used as these are harmful to the hens.
Scales, like feathers, are moulted once a year, so after the crusts have fallen off - the flesh is raw beneath so do not pull the crusts off - heavily infested legs may take a year to look normal again. Sometimes the mites will affect the face, causing crusting and irritation."
From http://www.thepoultrysite.com/artic...-external-and-internal-parasites-of-chickens/

Also, this one was interesting because it made it sound that diesel would be better than gas since the diesel would coat better:
http://www.henclass.com/scaly-leg-mite/

The chicken chick recommends gas (verses alcohol or diesel) in her fourth option:
http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/2013/03/scaly-leg-mites-in-chickens.html

After reading all of the options, and the fact that I can't find something that will tell me EXACTLY what toxins the hens would get if I dunk their feet in fuel oil (I have some on hand, right by my front door)..... Maybe I will go with dunking their feet in rubbing alcohol.

I am greatly in favor of all all things being dipped in alcohol... -eye roll-

As to cleaning.... I am still not sure what to do, I am against DE and tossing toxic powders about... I think painting everything would be good, but I am not willing to go to all of that trouble.

Hummmmmmmmm

I like the idea of scrubbing everything quickly with some diluted bleach and dish soap... But I am not sure how helpful that would be.

Think... Think... Think


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## seminole wind

Interesting about shedding scales.
so if they do have leg mites, there's more signs than just raises scales?


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## Alaskan

From what I am reading the scales do not raise up until it has been there awhile.

It was talking about a white substance on the scales in the very early stages... Dunno....


After much thought, and some more toxicity research... I think maybe I will go with gasoline. Not as toxic as Diesel or fuel oil, but toxic enough to kill the eggs ...

I am worried that the alcohol will not be toxic enough....

Grabbing every chicken, WASHING all of those legs, dipping them in something... And then rubbing the legs in the grease of my choice...

Just... Nightmare. Enough work that my crunchy tree hugger self wants something toxic... Two doses verses 10 or more is a wow kind of difference.


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## nannypattyrn

I used a surgical scrub on my new dog to help heal the sores left by the fleas. My main fear about gasoline is the fumes. My thought is soap ( I don't think I have enough surgical soap) , soft brush and ,I'm going to find some of the Nu Stock mentioned previously.


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## seminole wind

Please don't use gasoline. Go back to your tree hugging ways.

The easiest way to do this is to buy sevin liquid spray (5%) or some fly spray for horses and spray their legs at night. Done. If I don't have sevin liquid I use horse fly spray. While you're at it, give their butt a little spray - bugs like it there.


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## Alaskan

Nothing that I have read says that sevin will work for scaly mites.

Everything says soaking etc.

Anyway... You can read through the articles I linked a few posts back.

However, you can not simply spray something on and be done.

The legs have to be cleaned first. 

Then, if you want to go non-toxic you can use something that will smother and coat thickly and completely.

The non-toxic route needs to be reapplied frequently, or the mites are not smothered.


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## Alaskan

Yes, the Nustock is supposed to be good, it has several chemicals in it (or at least two... Whatever, blanking)... But you need to apply it more often.


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## seminole wind

Ivomec pour on (drops) works and something called Ovide which is a topical Malathion. Also there's a topical 1% permethrin lotion that's used for human lice, and surely that would kill mites. 

I can't believe the amount of BS out there about all these mite treatments. Sevin spray is for vegetables, so it's not going to say "scaly leg mites". Malathion is not going to say kills "scaly leg mites" but it does kill human head lice. Horse spray is not going to say kills chicken mites. 

I would never use gas, diesel, kerosene, I would be afraid of what kind of toxins soak in. If someone recommends any one of those, they are a moron. 

Most stuff that works is not labeled "for scaly leg mites" because it's not specifically made for chickens.


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## Alaskan

Everything says that if you use ivomectin (sp?) then the chicken should never be used for meat or eggs.


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## Alaskan

Permethrin works well for lice, yes.... But not for the scale mites since they are burrowed deep under the scales/slightly internal.


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## seminole wind

Alaskan said:


> Everything says that if you use ivomectin (sp?) then the chicken should never be used for meat or eggs.


Yes but they actually give ivomectin to people for worms.

Ivomectin pour on seems to be okay for beef cattle for consumption. There just isn't much approval for any chemical used for things other than what the chemical is for. Many are not approved for chickens because there is no official testing specifically for application for chickens. Poultry dust is just about it, which is permethrin . I will have to dig and see what the commercial growers use.


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## seminole wind

http://en.engormix.com/MA-pig-indus...tect-hogs-external-parasites-t1034/165-p0.htm

This link actually relates to hogs, however it does cover mites, and there are quite a few products that we use that are off-label and produced actually for hogs, goats, and cattle.


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## dawg53

Alaskan said:


> Everything says that if you use ivomectin (sp?) then the chicken should never be used for meat or eggs.


 There isnt any established withdrawal period after using ivermectin in poultry. Why? The manufacturer (Merial) will tell you it's not for use in poultry. Ivermectin pour on has a 48 day slaughter withdrawal period in cattle. No testing has been done to see if residue is passed in milk from the cow.
Ivomec use is ineffective treating scaley leg mites since they dont suck blood. As I mentioned, they eat right through the foot or leg.
That said, I have used ivermectin for worming years ago and quickly learned it was ineffective against the three main types of worms that chickens get; large roundworms, capillary and cecal worms. Needless to say I quit using it. It is also ineffective against northern fowl mites due to resistance. Scaley leg mites have to be smothered, same for ear mites.
When I used it, I tossed eggs in the garbage for 14 days after the last dosing. Still here typing.


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## Alaskan

Well... I clearly will NOT be using ivermectin for the leg mites then

Thanks for the input dawg.


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## Alaskan

Seminole, 

I dunno... I was raised up around cattle... They are given all sorts of stuff 
I would never touch...

Also the 48 day withdrawal period for cattle underscores that it is too toxic for the chickens.


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## seminole wind

These "approval" people have taken decades to think about putting a yucky taste into antifreeze. 

My silkie roo was found to have really messed up scales, all I had available was a&d ointment so I used that about 3 times in 10 days and he got nice looking legs again. A paint brush may make it easier.


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## Alaskan

Only three times over 10 days? That isn't bad.


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## nannypattyrn

I like that! Desitin may work just as well except for their little white (dirty) legs!


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## seminole wind

Yea, Alaskan. I just picked him up at night and globbed on a&d, every probably 3rd night x 3 and it was done. I schmear from bottom to top. Not a big deal at all. I can't see dipping or soaking-and it doesn't seem it would be good by you since it's cold at night. Another thing that's good is paraffin wax. I'm not sure what form it comes in, I haven't used it.


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## dawg53

nannypattyrn said:


> I like that! Desitin may work just as well except for their little white (dirty) legs!


Desitin works great clearing up yeast infections on Bulldogs.


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## seminole wind

dawg53 said:


> Desitin works great clearing up yeast infections on Bulldogs.


Yea that Desitin is not water soluble and sticks like glue. Might be a good interval between treatments.


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## nannypattyrn

Lol, Dawg! I got some A & D so I'm off to see how many girls,I can catch.


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## nannypattyrn

Ok, A & D ointment applied to all 17 grown chickens and 4 chicks. They were upset with me, but going into the coop after dark is out because I have no lighting. I have one that seemed pretty traumatized so I hope I didn't do damage. I may not get any eggs tomorrow.! I'll let y'all know how it works for me. If it doesn't I'll get more aggressive.


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## chickychickenhens

I've heard that you can rub each chickens legs and feet with vaseline and it will smother the mites and adventualy get rid of them. If you do this with vaseline or any other kind of jelly stuff like vaseline make sure to clean your coop after to get rid of other mites and mite eggs. Do this often and that should work.


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## nannypattyrn

Thx , Chickychick! We cleaned our coop down to the clay bottom and put fresh sand in, powdered the roost with permethrin dust , cleaned and disinfected the nests and put fresh bedding in. We burnt all the old bedding, scrubbed the walls, ect. I've been using vaseline , but not consitienty. So , I'm trying the a & d oint. I'll do it again in 4 or 5 days. I'm going to get liquid Sevin to spray nests and walls again tomorrow. I don't handle my chickens so they aren't very receptive to my efforts to treat them.


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## Alaskan

My flock still hasn't forgiven me for the lice abuse.....


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## nannypattyrn

Well speckled hen didn't make it. I noticed last night that she was laying around and when she did get up ,she was pretty wobbly with her going one way and her tail another like she was trying to balance. I'm not sure what to make of it. Could the roo, who is a very big boy ,have hurt her in the mating process, could it be disease (she was vaccinated) . I really don't think I hurt her bad enough by holding her to put oint on her legs. I guess I could have made something (injury) worse ?


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## seminole wind

Patty. Sorry you lost her. From things I've seen, sometimes a flock spots a sickly flock mate before you do and ousts them. They are quite mean. They ousted a Polish a few months ago, and she was put in a safe pen and did get sick and die. Then my silkie roo with the pox was noted to be in hiding all day, and I moved him. My Faverolle was being attacked and she went to the safe pen, got that swollen face and eye thing and came thru it.

Sometimes I see lighter or whitish chickens get picked on.

Just my observations.


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## seminole wind

chickychickenhens said:


> I've heard that you can rub each chickens legs and feet with vaseline and it will smother the mites and adventualy get rid of them. If you do this with vaseline or any other kind of jelly stuff like vaseline make sure to clean your coop after to get rid of other mites and mite eggs. Do this often and that should work.


Hi and Welcome to ChickenForum!

You're right, Vaseline is the best, I had done a&d ointment because I had it on hand. It's petroleum based like Vaseline. I think with chickens, we all get creative with what we need and what we have on hand, LOL.

What kind and how many chickens do you have? How long have you had chickens?


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## seminole wind

Alaskan said:


> My flock still hasn't forgiven me for the lice abuse.....


Alaskan, how many chickens do you have? What kind? You may have mentioned it already.


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## Alaskan

I do not know how many I have. 

I did just sell my Marans breeding flock, have maybe 3 cockerels left over/ still here.

I still have --

Large fowl:
Dominiques- rooster and, uh, 7 hens
Ameraucanas - 3, make and two females
Spitz - one each sex
Leghorns - one cockerel and... Uh... 3 old white, 1 RC white, 4 RC brown and the pullets... Uh... 3 are maybe sold, but still here... I think in addition are 2 RC white, 1 brown.. Uh... Not sure

One pullet olive egger .... Uh .....

Bantams: 3 old d'uccles 1 younger d'uccle (all girls)
4 ameraucanas 1 male and 3 female
Bunch of d'anvers

Plus a bunch of Muscovies


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## Alaskan

Ooooooh! That is under 40 for large fowl! Not so bad.


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## chickflick

I know someone that swears by Avon's skin so soft. Sprays it on their legs. Has no problems with mites and their legs are silky soft...


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## nannypattyrn

Hummmm! I sold Avon for a few years. I don't think I have any left though . I may check into it. I have a dealer just down the road.


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## zookeeper

Just been catching up with this, I read on here someone asking about creosoting their coop. Well I do the outsides of mine every other year, last time ,I decided to do the inside too. The result was tainted eggs for weeks! Don't do it!


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## nannypattyrn

Thx, Zookeeper! I wasn't planning on doing it because it stinks so bad and is so toxic. I was just remembering something from my childhood.


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## SamT

If you're going to use gasoline, don't use pump gas. It is loaded with chemicals. Some ethanol blends may have Methanol in them. very toxic and adsorbs thru the skin.

Coleman camping stove fuel is pure gasoline and is reasonably non-toxic. But I still would not drink it.

If you have to use motor oil, only use well used non-synthetic oil. it should smell a little bit burnt. This has been used for a long time to treat piglets and goats after denutting them. (Maybe cattle too, I dunno nutink 'bout them.) Well used oil has had most of the additional chemicals burned off. That's why you have to change your engine oil regularly.

Instead of Diesel, I would use perfume free kerosene. In the '50's My mother soaked my foot in it for 4 hours after I put a rusty nail completely thru it running around in an old horse corral. No pain, no Lockjaw.

OK, it did hurt like bejayzus when she ran the darning need and string thru my foot to insure the kerosene soaked all the way thru. Wowzer.


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## Alaskan

Wow! Great mom!

Thanks for all of the input.


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## dawg53

SamT. You're right. I completely forgot about burnt motor oil. I used it years ago on dogs with mange, cleared it up in no time flat. Also after castrating boar hogs. I just changed the oil in my lawn tractor and I'm going to save it in case my birds get a case of leg mites. Thanks for the reminder!


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## MichaelA69

3x a week for two to three weeks is what I've seen knock out scaly leg. One can certainly use diesel oil/used motor oil, and it would work. But any mange prescribed topical lotion/oil will work on cnemidocoptes mites.


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## seminole wind

Some older people told me once that they used to pour their used motor oil along the outside along the house footings to keep termites away.


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