# How do I know if we have lice/mites on our chickens?



## Maureen (Jan 17, 2013)

Our 13 hens recently dropped production from 6-10 eggs daily to 3 eggs a day. We did change their feed from Kalmbach naturals layer to a local Amish made non GMO organic mix. I do not know if that has anything to do with it. I also understand that they slow down production later in the year and more so with age (they'll be 2 in the spring) but this change happened over three weeks or so and seemed a bit odd for them. They've been great layers, frequently laying as many eggs as we have chickens during the summer 
My chicken and goat coop where they live looks like they've killed a bird in there. Feathers everywhere! Last night I really observed them and several were plucking their own feathers out while they roosted. They've been picking apart one hen and that is also not like them. 
Would this be lice or mites? I cannot see anything, but from what I've been reading thats normal. What would I use to dust them with? I have this livestock dust on hand for the horses/goats.


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## Maureen (Jan 17, 2013)

Here are a few pictures...

Might be a stupid question but, how do I know if they are molting vrs. mites? Or both? Some birds are just loosing feathers on their heads which I thought would be the start of molting. One bird looks horrible and our large black hen is pulling her own feathers out. (Do they do that when they molt?)


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## nj2wv (Aug 27, 2013)

They could be molting now.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

If you look on their bellies or under their wings you may be able to see mites/lice. They might just be molting as well! 
I'd dust them anyway to be safe, all birds basically contract parasites but normally don't get infested with them, it's a good idea to treat them every so often. I do mine every fall.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

That red skin on the one suggests there is picking going on. That one girl needs some blu kote on her bare skin to discourage picking before blood is drawn.


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## Maureen (Jan 17, 2013)

I'll pick up some blue coat. They've been picking on that hen for a few weeks. 

I couldn't see any mites on them, but the black hen that I posted a photo of yesterday AM had a 3" bald spot on her back by evening from plucking her own feathers out.

I went ahead and dusted them anyhow, scraped bedding, vacuumed, replaced bedding and sprinkled DE everywhere (not sure if that actually helps)

The picked on hen appears to have the scaly leg mites though, I did notice that! What do you do for them?

I think they're starting to molt and have mites. 



Is there anything that I can feed them to help too, with the molting and/or the mites?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

You can do what I do, 1/2 cc Ivermectin cattle pour on. That will kill scaly leg mites and any mites they may have in other places. Repeat in ten days.

Ivermectin is now available in a generic which is tons cheaper than the name brand.

You also need to figure out the reason for the picking. Most of the time its over crowding. It could also be the feed not having enough protein.


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## Maureen (Jan 17, 2013)

robin416 said:


> You can do what I do, 1/2 cc Ivermectin cattle pour on. That will kill scaly leg mites and any mites they may have in other places. Repeat in ten days.
> 
> Ivermectin is now available in a generic which is tons cheaper than the name brand.
> 
> You also need to figure out the reason for the picking. Most of the time its over crowding. It could also be the feed not having enough protein.


Pour on, so this goes on not in the bird? We have ivermec injec. but I am heading to Tractor Supply so I could get pour on.

We already dusted them, is that ok to do both? And egg withdraw with ivermec?

Could be protein. We switched feed to a local non GMO mix made by the Amish, I have been wondering about that.

I doubt it is over crowding. The hen house is 6x10, but they're rarely in there. Only to lay . They hang out and roost all night in the goat pen, which is 10x20. And they have a 40x60 run outside that connects both of these rooms. Home to 13 birds, two goats and a bunny. Seems plenty roomy to me.


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## littlelimabean (Oct 21, 2014)

The cheaper one is Eprinex, That's the one that Robin advised me to use a while back when I had scaly leg mite problems. I also dip my girls in vegetable oil a couple of times a month, it seems to help with the dryness of the scales on their legs. I too had a girl with that red bottom, she seems to get it every year. I have read it is a fungus and you can do topical fungal treatments or give yogurt. I add Probios to the yogurt and it seems to help my red bottom girl. Every chicken seems to molt differently some look hellish and others have it very easy. When they are molting and cleaning their feathers it may appear they are pulling them out, but it could just be normal fall out.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

So, the picking started after the feed change? If so, then that is your problem because it certainly sounds like they have plenty of space.

You can use the injectable as an injectable only. If you choose to go that route its .10 cc in the muscle. Yes, the pour on goes against on the skin like the topical flea/tick treatments for dogs. The body absorbs it and when mites bite they die.

There is no withdrawal for milk so the assumption is there is none for eggs. But that's an assumption, they haven't checked to see if it does end up in the eggs.


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## Maureen (Jan 17, 2013)

robin416 said:


> So, the picking started after the feed change? If so, then that is your problem because it certainly sounds like they have plenty of space.


Tough to say. We were doing 1/2 and 1/2 to switch them over and finish up a bag or two, for about a month. It has been the past 3-4 weeks that they've been on just the new feed. I started to notice them pecking this one hen somewhere around that time, maybe two weeks ago.

I picked up a bag of their old feed, Kalmbach 20% Layer Crumbles to mix back in and switch back to. Also keep reading good things about NatureWise Feather Fixer and was thinking I'd offer that as well?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I would go back to the old feed and stay there for a while to see if it stops the picking. You don't want to confuse things more by adding another new feed. 

If the picking stops then you can try the feather fixer but I don't think you're going to need it if they quit picking.


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## Maureen (Jan 17, 2013)

Good idea on the feed. Was thinking the same.

While dipping hen legs this afternoon I notice one hen that I thought looked a little messy (poo stuck everywhere) the last couple of days was really messy today. 
She acts totally normal - what do I do for her? 

Man! This is crazy! These are our first chickens and they've been a piece of cake, haven't lost a bird yet. Then over the past couple of weeks, feathers everywhere, pecking, leg mites, messy bottoms...


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

It might all go back to the feed. You can offer some yogurt with pro bios in it to see if it straightens the one girl out. Or you can actually buy it to mix in their water. Been a while since I bought it so I can't help you on where to get it. Google pro bios for poultry to see what comes up.


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## Maureen (Jan 17, 2013)

Hopefully my last question!

Just double checking, because I've never seen it before or really checked out my chickens legs, so does this look like the leg mites? 

















And you would go ahead with pour on Ivermec even after the dusting? I did dip their little bird legs in oil today, too.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

The reason I use Ivermectin is that almost all of my birds were feather legged. Doing the oil/vaseline treatment never worked. Then I found Ivermectin.

You will have to repeat the oil several times because not only are you killing the adults there are eggs present that will hatch. 

And yes, you're right that is the sure fire way to tell they have leg mites. The raised scale, non neat appearing legs.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Can you imagine doing legs like that with oil or vaseline on a hundred birds?








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## Maureen (Jan 17, 2013)

robin416 said:


> Can you imagine doing legs like that with oil or vaseline on a hundred birds?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh good grief 
That would be a messy process.

Where do these darn leg mites even come from?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Same as all the other bugs we deal with, they're present in our environment.


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## Tony-O (Jul 19, 2012)

.
I wouldn't worry about your hens. They're molting for sure. While they molt, egg production comes to (or almost to) a complete stop. They're using all their energy to producing new feathers. They also don't lay well during this short daylight. 

I have one hen that looses almost ALL of her feathers at once. A few lose about half at a time. but on average, they loose about a third at a time. As they re-grow, will shed more feathers till all are replaced. Some will just loose a few at a time till finally all are replaced.

 
.
As for the scaly mites, any type of oil will soften the scale, but will also kill the mites and mite eggs by smothering them. That's all you need for that. I'd oil them again in a week to 10 days just in case any more showed up.


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## OldBrickHouseFarm (Sep 30, 2014)

Unless you've seen lice or mites, especially around the vent, I wouldn't suspect them nor would I treat for them. 
The reason is your birds are in their second autumn. That's when adult birds have their first true molt (and every year thereafter)
The feathers everywhere in autumn and a dramatic drop in egg production is what you should be seeing. Feathers are 90+% protein. They can't make those and eggs at the same time. The molt season is also a very important time for them to let their reproductive tract do a refurbishment. Chickens are animals that happen to feed us breakfast, not laying machines.
Best course of action is to switch to a grower feed around 18% protein and 1% calcium. Provide oyster shell in a separate container for those still making egg shells. Excessive calcium for non-layers can cause other health issues. 
Once they all commence laying again you can switch back to layer feed.
20% layer feed is only for pullets in the first month or 2 of production. After that one should cut back to around 16%. If you want to continue the 20% layer for mature hens, you can cut the ration to about 50% and 50% scratch. That will get you into the sweet spot of 16% protein.
Excessive protein can cause articular gout since the liver and kidneys are working overtime to process it.


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## OldBrickHouseFarm (Sep 30, 2014)

This is scaly leg mite. I don't see that on your birds.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

20% protein is not too much for hens. 20% protein is high for a herbivore and can be hard on their kidneys, yes, but we must remember chickens are omnivorous and will choose the highest protein diets - mostly insect and animal protein - that they can find if left to their own advances. Cutting the feed ration back by 50% and adding scratch grain (which are a filler and good for adding calories but not much else) means you are not just cutting the protein, but cutting the other vitamins and minerals that are in a complete feed as well. Much more to feeding an animal than the protein content.

The picture above is an advanced case of scaly leg mite. If left untreated, then yes, they will look that way, but they don't get like that overnight. Once the legs are to that point the scales usually don't go back the way they were for a very, very, long time - if at all. This is why it's important to treat in the early stages. When you see a ridge of crust starting to form around the scale, it is safe to assume leg mites are taking hold and treat for them instead of waiting until the bird is clearly ailing. Same with lice or mites, I would much rather treat the bird if they are starting to show symptoms than wait until I can plainly see parasites crawling around on the bird. 
Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as they say.


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## Maureen (Jan 17, 2013)

Thank-you all for the responses. 
We did buy pour on, but have not used it yet. I guess I'd prefer to be sure they HAVE something to treat before I dump chemicals on them. 
Everyone is growing their feathers back.

We switched from the Amish feed back to our orig. feed (20% layer crumbles) and we've had no more grumpy hens, no more pecking, the bald-butted hen is growing her feathers back and everyone seems to be back to what I feel is normal for them. They lay between 3 & 5 eggs a day again.



> Chickens are animals that happen to feed us breakfast, not laying machines.


Very entertaining pets, at that! I understand this, it was just yet another sign that something was off. We are aware that they take a well deserved break.

As far as the scaly leg thing, I think that I'll just dip them again? In all of my inexperience, I think that it could be early stages and there is no harm in oiling a leg.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Very early stages on the leg mites. The leg scales should lay smoothly on the leg, not lifted at all. You will have to repeat the oil thing several times to kill off what is left and catch the eggs that hatch.


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