# DOGS WITH A PURPOSE



## Closed Flock (Nov 17, 2020)

I currently have 5 dogs out of six acquired and managed for guarding my chickens and eventually sheep and possibly a couple feeder calves is resources allow.

At first I got a single male short-haired German Pointer that proved to be awesome and even took to defending the neighbors chickens. That proved to be too much when a Red Fox figured out it could use fences as cover where fox would zip back and forth through fence when pursued. The dog still actually caught a fox and killed alone. Then I got his half-sister that was half wire-haired which completely shut fox action down and we got another fox plus a dog. Yes, they killed a dog. The female has proved more problematic going after chickens when bored so took me longer to fix that. Then male got runover causing loss. Female cleaned up her act but had troubles keeping fox and coyotes away. Male had working relationship with coyotes that female never developed. The male could not handle major cold so we made so dogs could go in and out of house they desired. That got expensive with heating bill and trying to keep house clean.

Male pointer as pup with first American Dominique produced by my breeding efforts.









Male pointer as an adult. He played a big role rearing both my kids.

















Female pointer as pup.


















Female pointer as adult.








They killed a lot of snapping turtles. Even the big ones had no chance. This only plate sized.









Then we got a male English Shepherd with understanding he would be more cold tolerant. Folks we got him from turned out to be more the puppy mill type, but we made do. The female pointer began slowing down so we got a female English Shepherd. She came from an extremely inbred line that was used more for breeding than anything; no actual working or showing. She turned out to be great like the German Pointer male, plus handles the cold very well. With three dogs we got another fox and another dog. Dogs are hard to bury here.

Male English Shepherd as pup.

















As adult with too much hair for weather.









White dog belongs to neighbor. She friends with ours so I had to break her of killing chickens. She was fairly easy.









Female as pup.










Female as adult making sure **** is really dead.









with other adult females of pack.










Female pulled roosters tail half hour before becuase he was fighting with another rooster through a pen wall. She was trying to pull him back by the tail. She got frustrated and tried to pick him up by tail. For some reason the dogs are real good at breaking up young roosters fighting. Roosters do not look good afterwards.









So my kids got to no more about the birds and the bees we bred the two shepherds. We go benefits of out breeding from the git go. Each kid selected a pup to be kept and trained for show. The train real fast, especially after all mistakes made with their father.

Birds and the bees.

























Chickens avoiding pups. You would too if you could.









Pups learning how to tree squirrels.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

These posts and pics really cause me to miss having a dog in my life. I lost my last one last year and swore, no more. 

I love that you've documented so much with pictures. They can bring back so many enjoyable memories of people and creatures that populated our lives.


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## Slippy (May 14, 2020)

I call this photo, "Cattle Dog With No Cattle"!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Does thing mean he/she is depressed not having any cattle?


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## Closed Flock (Nov 17, 2020)

Flo at just over a year. First four images she is munching on a turkey neck with her father approaching from barn. In third image she quietly said its mine dad, back off. Flo, like her father, is brindle in my book, but the registration people call her sable. Sable in the English Shepherd registry covers a range of colors with considerable differences in genetic background to create them. She has siblings also sable that are much lighter and lacking the pattern. That group alone I feel proper to call sable.






























Mom and dad as Flo ran around house.









Flo walking pens under watchful eye of her mother. Her mother roles her when she does bad. I have to speak calmly to slow Flo so she does not excite chickens in pens. Only four chickens out when pups released to make so managing chaos is easier. Flo still checks out every single water bowl.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Are these pics recent?


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## Closed Flock (Nov 17, 2020)

Last post today before noon. Others over last almost decade. Current pictures on dogs will be from this point forward. At this time I am trying to learn seriously upgraded computer and internet with your website protocols.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Thanks for the pics!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

We don't have any website protocols so if you have issues, holler. You've posted often enough that the auto blockers should be off for you now.


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## Closed Flock (Nov 17, 2020)

I am still learning how many images can be in a post and how to most efficiently upload them.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

LOL I don't even know that and I've been here for years. 

When I post a pic I usually drag one from my photos on the computer.


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## Closed Flock (Nov 17, 2020)

I am using this computer, phone, two cameras, youtube, and a website similar to this one as sources. All images and videos ultimately of my making.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

PJ is liable to start picking your brain about your use of electronic devices. He seems to be a bit enamored with them.


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## Biring (Sep 24, 2020)

This is Bear. She's about six months old. Her job is to look after the chickens and to let us know if there are any snakes or monitor lizards in the garden. Unfortunately she likes to play with the chickens sometimes but has never hurt one. But she's showing some promise. Just now she leapt into action to protect our matriarch from a neighbour's cockerel.

Sometimes she just likes to be a bit naughty. Here she is cleaning her teeth with my toothbrush!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

LOL She's grown quite a bit physically but not so much mentally. She's adorable.


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## Biring (Sep 24, 2020)

She’s starting to respect me as her boss. She loves to steal shoes but she knows the difference between our shoes and other people’s. Today she stole a shoe belonging to a guy working here, I called her out on it and she put it back where she found it!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I love when I can start my morning with a laugh, you and Bear have provided me with two now.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

That's gonna be a good dog!


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## Biring (Sep 24, 2020)

I do hope so.


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## Hermit's Garden (Nov 27, 2020)

I plan to introduce Gypsy to the chicks when we get them, but carefully. She's good with our cats (wants to play, though, even when they don't), but I plan to go verrry carefully with the birds, because she's got a heckuva prey drive.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

She might be really tough to convince the birds are part of the pack.


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## Hermit's Garden (Nov 27, 2020)

I know. But she chased the cats when we first brought her home. It took maybe three or four times of this sequence--chase, get shut out in the garage five minutes, then let in--before she realized that chasing the cats got her "shunned" and that was the last of it. She's stubborn, but way smart, and very highly food motivated. I won't even consider taking risks with the birds--we have so many predators in the mountains, I can't even free range. (Neighbor's dogs.)


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I had challenges with one of mine. Crazy thing is his two brothers accepted the birds into the pack without question but the alpha dog, Alf, had to go through being scared to death when his human pack leader started yelling and screaming at him.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Nice dog!


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Yes, it is a matter of defining the parameters of the pack!


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## Closed Flock (Nov 17, 2020)

robin416 said:


> She might be really tough to convince the birds are part of the pack.


I have yet to have dogs consider the chickens as part of the pack. My experience with dogs and chickens is considerable. The ideal for me is the dogs consider the chickens to be an acceptable component within their territory that they read for signs someone that is bad might be intruding. The intruders I want monitored and the dogs to go after are predators. Even when the chickens are accepted, it is my chickens that are accepted. My dogs, like other livestock dogs, can regard individual animals of the species the dog typically protects being attacked because the dog does not know them. Dogs, like us, can recognize the chickens as individuals and assess when they do not belong. Lots of animals have the ability to recognize individuals across species boundaries. The ability is not limited to birds and mammals.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Not my chickens but my Guineas and dogs. They formed an understanding and would join each other going after interlopers. The Guineas would come at a certain bark and there was a body language the dogs recognized that the Guineas were on to something and they'd join them.

It was quite fascinating to watch. Especially after the problems I had with the one.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

A good farm dog is always worth it's weight in gold.


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## Closed Flock (Nov 17, 2020)

I set out to take some pretty dog picture, but female pups Flo (brindled) and Pup Pup (black and tan) decided to engage in a rough game of kick butt to see who is boss. The fighting got pretty serious and they almost fought their way into a cock pen knocking it over if not damaging the pen while letting cock out to get into his own fight. It was a mess. These images show only the latter parts of the scrap when it moved to front of house. I had to raise my voice to keep other females out of it as I have no tolerance in dog piles with pot shots taken at combatants. The pot shots are what can cause real damage.













































Flo is dominant over Pup Pup maintaining status quo. Note who has tail higher.















Shortly after Honey (mom) had to assert her dominance over Flo. Lucy was really into pot shots as she delivers them when taking on foes external to pack. When she gets into fight you need to be running or you can be lucky to get away alive.


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## Closed Flock (Nov 17, 2020)

The whole pack as we start for woods to let coyotes and fox now who lives here and how powerful we are. We went to marking post at far end of property near fence row where dogs and coyotes all leave their mark. For good measure I left mine too.

Barn is in background of first image.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

That was one of my favorite things to do with my dogs, walking in the woods.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Thanks for the pics and explanation!


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## MadDojah (Aug 7, 2020)

Having such a large pack, do you have an tips on breaking ball/stick aggression?


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## Biring (Sep 24, 2020)

robin416 said:


> That was one of my favorite things to do with my dogs, walking in the woods.












Me too. Photo from our walk this morning.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

That is absolutely amazing! I have more understanding why you love it there.


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## Closed Flock (Nov 17, 2020)

MadDojah said:


> Having such a large pack, do you have an tips on breaking ball/stick aggression?


In our context the defensiveness over items does *NOT* happen much. The dogs have had to operate in a complex social unit for some time and all raised in part by other dogs. Pecking order is well defined most of time, and they have to share items like deer carcass once in a while where they are more concerned with denying coyotes and dogs from from outside the pack. The diversity of challenges may reduce the aggression between individuals within pack. Dominant female Honey comes closes to defending items and her main interest appears to be informing others who is boss. I am not a real dog trainer, I just have lots of experience and can read what they say.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Biring said:


> View attachment 37112
> 
> 
> Me too. Photo from our walk this morning.


Great pic!


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Closed Flock said:


> In our context the defensiveness over items does happen much. The dogs have had to operate in a complex social unit for some time and all raised in part by other dogs. Pecking order is well defined most of time, and they have to share items like deer carcass once in a while where they are more concerned with denying coyotes and dogs from from outside the pack. The diversity of challenges may reduce the aggression between individuals within pack. Dominant female Honey comes closes to defending items and her main interest appears to be informing others who is boss. I am not a real dog trainer, I just have lots of experience and can read what they say.


Thanks!


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## MadDojah (Aug 7, 2020)

Closed Flock said:


> In our context the defensiveness over items does *NOT* happen much. The dogs have had to operate in a complex social unit for some time and all raised in part by other dogs. Pecking order is well defined most of time, and they have to share items like deer carcass once in a while where they are more concerned with denying coyotes and dogs from from outside the pack. The diversity of challenges may reduce the aggression between individuals within pack. Dominant female Honey comes closes to defending items and her main interest appears to be informing others who is boss. I am not a real dog trainer, I just have lots of experience and can read what they say.


Thanks for the response. That makes sense! It's only in certain areas of the property. We have a pit named Diesel and sometimes when balls or sticks or around it's like he flips a switch. The other dogs are fine, but we have been working with him not being so dominant.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Thanks for the explanation!


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Wonderful pictures-beautiful dogs-just one in the pictures would probably be equivalent in mass to all 11 of ours. My Kimmi often talks of getting a large watch dog; so far I have dissuaded her from the idea. We can't allow a dog to run loose and I'm against kenneling or tying/chaining.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

My hubs wanted to pen our first dog, a Redbone Hound. Me, nope, nope, nope. Not going to happen. He turned out to be the best darned house dog.

All our big dogs lived in the house. But the acreage was fenced so if they went off during the night I could open the door and let them take care of business.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

That's the thing around here, a good farm dog has to be utterly reliable, help with the animals and not be a legal liability.


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