# incubators



## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

ahhh my friendly people of chicken forum, I have been lost without internet connection for the last few months, oh a lot has changed.
I lost my rooster, which put my hatching on hold. While I was waiting for my new rooster to mature I took the chance to go around and visit some other high altitude farmers, and came to one conclusion in regards to hatching.
The only people having any sort of success rates at my altitude (9200+) were those using GQF cabinets and brinsea advanced incubators. I was never able to find anyone who had a 100% hatch, but the best hatch around 75% was out of a mini advanced ex with the humidity pump. 
I am calling out across the county/world now, please I beg of you kind people, is anyone out there hatching at any altitudes close to me with any success?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I need to see if any of the Silkie breeders I know are up at your elevation. I know many live out in the N. West, Montana, Colorado and know they have good hatches but is that because they're at lower elevations? I won't know until I do some checking.


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

The people I spoke with in denver and beyond out into the flatlands all had good rates, but once you tack on 4k more above sea level the hatches really dropped. I do not intend to stay up here in the clouds forever, but for the time being.. I would like to get this figured out. 
I wont be able to afford a new incubator until fall, so I have some time to research and decide what i want to do.
I have considered making my own cabinet, and using the digital controls for temp/humidity, as well as possibly o2.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

My search was a bust. No one that I know is above 4000 feet. Someone there must have hens that go broody, they would be someone to talk to too.


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## nj2wv (Aug 27, 2013)

I live around 2000 feet. Try experimenting with your own eggs when they are available so you won't lose money buying fertile eggs. I also live in a very humid environment even in the winter. I have found a better success rate using higher temps by one degree and a dry incubator. It may take some time before you get the formula right for your situation.


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

I read a report, I will have to look around for it, that has guidlines on hatching and raising at high altitude. It goes by weight, suggests supplimental o2, and very precise humidity requirements. I would like to either find or build a bator that I can control all parameters. I was thinking about building a cabinet style, and using digital temp/humidity controller from incubator warehouse. I then came across an o2 controller which would be able to adjust the o2 in the cabinet, keeping everything in the ideal range. 
I had a lot of my eggs develop through day 20, but just never pipped or they internally pipped and never hatched. my easter hatch had only 3 quitters at lockdown, 20 eggs, only 6 hatched out. now why would I loose 12 chicks at hatching point.. I just never figured that out. 
My new roo is learning to crow, so hopefully he will be doing his job soon.. get back at it


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Since you like building your own, look for an old refrigerator. I knew someone that built one out of a dead maybe 18 cu ft, fridge. He had turning racks built in to it and hooked the racks to an outside something or other to keep them turning. Its been a while since I saw it so I've forgotten what all he did. He had vents drilled in it to keep circulation going. Since it was so sealed it was easy to maintain temp and humidity. 

I know you know what I'm talking about.


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

that would also hold the o2 if I did end up going that route. I am going to borrow the brinsea mini ex advanced from a friend and give a go with just the humidity pump, and advanced brinsea incubator. if I have a significantly higher ratio, I may just drop the cashflow on it, but I do like building my own stuff, and that would be a great project.. as though I dont have enough going on all the time. haha


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

anyone ever use this from incubator warehouse. it looks like what I had planned to build, only a lot more expensive then if I were to put it together on my own.





here is a link to the humidifier on ebay for 20 dollars
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-Home-Office-water-bottle-Ultrasonic-Steam-Diffuser-Mist-Air-Humidifier-/141250817423?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20e3346d8f

and the hygrostat to control it for another 30
http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-110V-Digital-Air-Humidity-Controller-Hygrometer-Hygrostat-Humidistat-1-99-/171348443513?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e529c179


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

I don't have to deal with altitude issues, but my incubator I built for 23$. I really cheaper out on thermostats and it came through in the hatch, 3 days late and most were quitters (3/13 hatched) but for 50$ I could have built one that was loads more accurate. 
Seems the issues for high altitudes are lack of oxygen and humidity, so with your own eggs (which would be more porous than eggs from lower down the hill) you could likely get away with hooking up a fan to a larger air hole and adding water as the air cells dictate. With eggs from sea level you'd likely want two fans, maybe. You could throw one together and test it for probably >40$ if you can find some junk computer fans and get cheap analog thermometers, but for the therms I'd likely splurge on the accurate digitals and reuse them.


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

Fiere said:


> I don't have to deal with altitude issues, but my incubator I built for 23$. I really cheaper out on thermostats and it came through in the hatch, 3 days late and most were quitters (3/13 hatched) but for 50$ I could have built one that was loads more accurate.
> Seems the issues for high altitudes are lack of oxygen and humidity, so with your own eggs (which would be more porous than eggs from lower down the hill) you could likely get away with hooking up a fan to a larger air hole and adding water as the air cells dictate. With eggs from sea level you'd likely want two fans, maybe. You could throw one together and test it for probably >40$ if you can find some junk computer fans and get cheap analog thermometers, but for the therms I'd likely splurge on the accurate digitals and reuse them.


I have built a cheap DIY incubator, its on this thread titled coolerbator. Humidity and oxygen are the issues, getting around them is tricky. I do not currently have any breeding roosters, my boys are just too young. they were learning to crow, went for a multiday excursion and came back more or less silent.
I am looking for information from people who incubate over 7,000 feet above sea level, im above 9,000 and seem to be a bit higher then most...

I have found a few articles on high altitude hatching, and almost all of them suggest an increase of heat to start, then a slow drop as the egg warms up metabolically. They also suggest adding oxygen to the system, bringing up the entire rooms humidity levels and as stated, hatching only eggs from altitude. 
As I am trying to have a heritage flock of rare birds, thats simply not an option, as most of the breeds I want to raise I need to have shipped in. I am considering having a live pair shipped in, but that would involve a major change of how I do things, and as of right now i prefer the free range all natural chicken keeping I have going on.


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

I have found a few sites, mostly agreeing to the same concepts. I will copy and paste them into this discussion for further refrence and peer review. 
It is clear to me that not many people are trying to hatch chicks at the altitude I am at, however, through science it is possible to hatch decent hatch rates.
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/2908/incubating-eggs-at-high-altitudes

http://www.hatchtech.nl/aboutus/articles/High%20Altitude%20Incubation.pdf

http://www.worldpoultry.net/Broilers/Housing/2012/5/Rearing-chickens-at-high-altitudes-WP010363W/

http://www.pasreform.com/academy/frequently-asked-questions/incubation/25-incubation-at-high-altitudes.html

each of these links has some different yet same information. possibly with this information, and a few extra gizmos I might be able to figure this out for everyone here.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Talk about facing a challenge. It does appear that eggs from your own flock have a higher chance of hatching.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

You can easily have free range chickens, you just won't be able to have more than one rooster, or you'll need build breeding pens and keep the roosters enclosed in a bachelor pad until they are needed, then put them with their appropriate hens away from the others for a few weeks in the breeding pen. It's very possible to free range and breed (I do it) but you need to keep the birds locked up during the season if you have more than one type.


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

in regards to humidity and oxygen levels. I have access to o2, I am considering using a co2 regulator and needle valve for the o2. I have a large fridge to use, its too large to heat effectively within the budget I have, so I was considering using the racks which are perfect size for my hovabator and coolerbators and placing those inside the fridge. I would then control the humidity and o2 in the fridge which is sealed, i will likely use a small air pump and add regular air into the chamber every time o2 is added. 
I am going to use a hygrostat hooked up to a humidifier to increase the ambient humidity in the chamber, and I will in time increase that if needs be to have one attached to each incubator.
The hova bator has an auto-turner, which can hold 40 eggs. that is about all i can handle anyways. so to start I will try it with only the hovabator, inside the fridge which will have the humidity and o2 control. Whats the general consensus here? Hatching eggs at over 9,000 feet above sea level, is it worth the efforts??
I will keep everyone posted on the fridge build, as I will likely need some pointers there.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Are you going to try with eggs from lower elevations again?

I'm not going to say yay or nay to this simply because I don't know but you've got me watching and learning new stuff. And I like it.

Will the O2 go directly in to the Hovabator? Not sure it makes a difference or not. Will you have a way to measure the O2 levels according to that one chart? That last question is more about achieving the same levels for subsequent hatches if this one turns out to go good.

Never mind that question about it going in to the Hovabator, I see you're going to add the coolerbators to the fridge too.


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

I was playing around, and think I have a solution to the O2. If i pump the pure o2 from the bottle into a pvc pipe that is being fed ambient air via a small air pump. I have access to an o2 meter, but only for a day at best at a time.. kind of need to get it set and have it work. 
my plan was to run that air line into the fridge. this way no 100% o2 ever touches an ignition source, as by the time the o2 enriched air even hits the inside of the ridge it will be well mixed.
my goal is that I wont need to have separate lines to each bator, rather that by controlling the humidity and o2 in the fridge will be enough. it makes sense in my head, simply have to start putting things together. I do not have the best camera right now, but I will try to document the process as much as possible. the firdge itself will act as a whiteboard to keep data I find from the experiments I try over the next few months. If I can get to over 50% hatches then I feel I am doing pretty good.


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

I am only going to do the coolerbator in there to start. I do nt feel the need for the added heat and stuff to run the coolerbator as well. 
I do think I will have a light on inside the fridge operating on a bi metal thermostat. I will wire the hovabator to run off a digital thermostat, using its wafer style as a back up/safe gaurd.
My thinking is by setting the temp of the fridge itself to 99, the hovabator will have a much easier time holding its temps stable. By keeping the air inside the fridge at the ideal humidity, any air the hovabator pulls in will be ideal humidity and temp, with a slightly enriched o2 level. A lot of work for an incubator, but in the long run it will pay itself off through the sale of chicks and potentially pure breed chickens..
I should be able to have the fridge wired up and running to temp, ready for the hovabator, by mid next month. I plan to have a control hatch set by the end of august. likely experiment as long as I can get good eggs from my flock or others around


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

If you can get that meter even for one day it could be worth it. I wonder how high you have to turn the O2 on to raise the O2 level in the fridge and that might be the only way to know. With mixing it with ambient air the flow on the O2 tank might need to be fairly high. It will depend on how much ambient air the electric pump moves in comparison to the tank. 

BTW, how large is this tank? Is it an E or an H? Smaller? I would have to see if I can find the information for how long any of them lasts running at 3 liters per minute.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

You're not going to like this, an E tank at 2200 psi running at 3 lpm will only last 5 hours plus a little. So, that's something else you'll have to play with.


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

well the time may be upon us here for the altitude experimentation. I noticed one of my rooster was breeding my hens so I am going to pull some eggs and see if they develop. Once I have established that I have fertile eggs to work with I will assemble the incubator. I have ordered a digital temp controller and well as the digital humidity controller. My plan is this. I will make a separate shelf inside my fridge, this will house the a simple heating lamp and bi-metal setup. This is be set at a constant 90. I will have the hygrostat hooked up to a humidifier which will also be near the top of the fridge near the lights. 
I will place the probe near the egg chamber, where the hova-bator will be sitting. The digital temp controller will be routed inline after the wafer thermostat. set at 99.5 for the first round. I will have all the temp sensors mounted to the outside of the fridge, which will allow me to check everything without opening the fridge and loosing humidity.
As for the o2. I have a big bottle.. its 4 feet tall from an oxytorch. I do not have an o2 monitor or controller.. and they are not cheap. I am considering trying to use the needle control valve from the co2 on my aquarium. if that seems to control the flow then all I need to do is figure out how much to add. 
even after all this I will have not spent as much as a new brinsea so who knows..


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

I know a few friends are following, and I wanted to do an update. I have decided that in order to best get an accurate experiment I first must do a hatch using regular process. I have my hova-bator set to 99.5 (at least as close as the hova can stay) and will be keeping the humidity around 50% using the water channels in the bottom of the bator. This first test hatch will act as a control, same as everyone else out there.
All my first experiments will be from my own eggs, laid here from birds that hatched above 9200 sea level. once I have established a pattern, I will start bringing shipped eggs into the picture. 
There will be an update at day 10 and to show progress on the fridge, but this thread will likely be quiet for a few days and the eggs do their thing.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I am looking forward to see whether or not they are correct on this adaptation idea. I'm assuming they are, how else would there be more hatching at your elevation other wise? 

Will you use the Hova for the shipped eggs? Do you candle to see if the air cells are intact before setting? That would be a good idea since they have a very low chance of hatching even at sea level.


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

robin416 said:


> Talk about facing a challenge. It does appear that eggs from your own flock have a higher chance of hatching.


shipped eggs are a shot in the dark

i have had good hatches & bad hatches from shipped eggs

so i like to hatch my own

i would like to add that a roosters sperm can stay in a hen for months

yes i know that sounds odd

we had a lemon cuckoo rooster who got "nasty"

5 months later we were still getting a few of his offspring out of the sportsman


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

update. so far 7 of 7 eggs have a lil peep moving about inside. They are scheduled to hatch this weekend, so soon we will have a base line to see if my mods make any difference. 
With the fridge, the biggest issue i have right now is getting fresh air into it without loosing humidity. 
I may try just placing a rubbermaid tote over the bator and placing the humidifier in with the hova for now, until i can figure out the air thing, still no 02 controller, they are pricey, any my co2 controller is just not accurate enough IMO


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

last night should have marked the hatch day. this first test was done using a hovabator with turbo-air fan. I kept the humidity around 50% up til day 19 then boosted it from there. I have one chick out of the shell, 2 more are internally pipped and the remaining 4 appear to be lifeless. As I am still working out the kinks in my fridgebator, I will sett another batch tomorrow, only try a slightly higher temp and humidity throughout the incubation.


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