# possible Marek's -poop pic 2/2/17



## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I have a hen who went one leg lame a few months ago. Now she is 2 leg lame. Can't reach food or water. I got the vodka.

They claim that Marek's paralysis is normally in chickens under a year. In this batch, vaccinated by Mc McMurray, I lost one at a year old, Marek's necropsy, I had one skinny and found dead, now this one who is 2-3 years old having paralysis and does not look like she can aim at food and pick it up. It's all very sad.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Did you try the B to see if there was any improvement?


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Yea she got a multi vitamin.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I don't know if that's a high enough dose of B to correct a deficiency.

I'm a prime example, with what happened with hubs and with the broken teeth I ended up both B deficient and over all vitamin deficient. A multi did not take care of the B deficiency, I had to take extra to fix that issue.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

She got 60ml of vodka last night and will be buried today. I would have held her but she hated to be touched. RIP
Robin, hoped anything would help but she just got worse so quick.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

seminolewind said:


> I have a hen who went one leg lame a few months ago. Now she is 2 leg lame. Can't reach food or water. I got the vodka.
> 
> *They claim that Marek's paralysis is normally in chickens under a year.* In this batch, vaccinated by Mc McMurray, I lost one at a year old, Marek's necropsy, I had one skinny and found dead, now this one who is 2-3 years old having paralysis and does not look like she can aim at food and pick it up. It's all very sad.


They lie! The pathologist I use says he is constantly reminding his colleagues that any form of Marek's can affect any age of bird.

Sorry for your loss. {{{{{ hugs }}}}}


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

Sem,I'm sorry for your loss.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Thanks, CQ.
Kathy, thanks . I have had some Marek's paralysis-ers that got it at 1-2 yrs old, and one at 3 years old-the first one. 
These 3 chickens from MMc were from 7 that were supposedly vaccinated. I Have 4 left. I have to say that I don't think they were vaccinated. I've had a hatch of 10 silkies that I vaccinated, and this is over a year later and I still have all 10. 

People talk about breeding for resistance. I don't think there's a way to do it. From situations in the past, it looks like the longer you quarantine them, the better the resistance is. In the past few years, 4 years ago I had a batch I didn't quarantine and at 6 weeks they went off to a horse farm. At 4 months, all still fine, and I brought one rooster back. He's 4 years old now.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I have a 4 year old roo named Thor. I hatched him, had him a month, then he lived at a horse stable for a few months, then I got him back so he didn't get eaten.
Now he's limping. Worse today than yesterday. So i am thinking another Marek's. I'll have to wait and see.

I didn't realize what my last post said. Hmmm.


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## Autumn (Jun 18, 2016)

Sorry about the loss of your hen. I hope you contact McMurray's and let them know your experience.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

He has a lump on his leg, but it doesn't feel broken. This is his poop today.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Autumn said:


> Sorry about the loss of your hen. I hope you contact McMurray's and let them know your experience.


It's a little late and I have no proof. Unfortunately.


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## Valentine (Dec 4, 2016)

seminolewind said:


> She got 60ml of vodka last night and will be buried today. I would have held her but she hated to be touched. RIP
> Robin, hoped anything would help but she just got worse so quick.


 Aww so sorry, good idea the Vodka though cost me $250 to euthanize


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Valentine said:


> Aww so sorry, good idea the Vodka though cost me $250 to euthanize


Wow. My vet charges about $50 for the visit and euthanization. For those times I just can't do it. But instead of an ax, 60ml of vodka for a large bird is much less violent. They kinda go to sleep in my arms (an hour).


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

seminolewind said:


> He has a lump on his leg, but it doesn't feel broken. This is his poop today.


Any opinions on poop on Post # 11?


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## Valentine (Dec 4, 2016)

seminolewind said:


> Any opinions on poop on Post # 11?


Could be internal worms, avian flu, or Mareks,


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I decided to treat him like he has a broken leg. I wrapped it and put him in a small area in a pan of shavings. His poo may be green because he hadn't eaten, cause he ate like a hog when I gave him food. Time will tell.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

My hen w/ a leg injury poos like that.I assume it's because she's in and eating differently and not moving much.She slowly continues to improve and now I get her out to exercise.Yesterday,she found a sunny spot to lay in and I noticed a sore on her good foot.Bumble foot?It doesn't seem to bother her but she has no choice but to stand on that foot.I know I need to remove it but I don't want to right now because I don't to re-injury her leg and if the foot is painful,she won't stand at all.Or should I remove it while she's incapacitated and mostly laying down?I have never had to deal w/ bumble foot.What would you do?


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

If she's not limping, I wouldn't do anything. I have a huge JG that's had them for years. When they limp, I take care of it. Basically it involves using a scalpel blade and cutting around the scab and removing it, then soaking, massaging, a bit more cutting to get the kernel out. The kernel is a staph infection that's formed a ball of ick. It needs to pop out. Then packing the hole with antibiotic ointment and wrapping to keep clean. When I start I usually scrub the foot in soapy water and rinse, then stick in Epsom salts to soak . Sometimes I have this stuff called Magnapaste, which is an Epsom salt gel for horses. I put that on the foot with gauze and wrap and leave on overnight before I start.

If Castportpony doesn't show up, she has a picture instructions. I'll find the one I have somewhere.

Thanks about the poo info. I don't think he ate well while limping.

CQ, here's the bumblefoot link
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/236649/bumblefoot-surgery-with-pics-and-how-to/0_50


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

Thanks,Sem!!!It sounds like surgery.I'm going to watch it and as long as it doesn't seem to bother her I'm going to let her other leg heal first.Reminded me of the boils I get w/ a core you need to get out only you don't squeeze the area but pull it apart and push down to get the core out.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Valentine said:


> Could be internal worms, avian flu, or Mareks,


Good guess on the Marek's. It's either that or a true fracture. He does have a huge appetite. His poop is getting solid . Good sign!


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

CQ, the first couple of times I did that I would set up everything in my bathroom at the sink. I think it's not so scary if you set up. That lady in the post went and bought a run down Antebellum Mansion with formal gardens and restored it. She has a long "diary" about it. My Gawd what a house! Even came with bats.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

Cool!!!I'll check it out.Yeah,I'll need to set up first,I think I even have a scalpel in my first aid kit,plus other handy tools.I think I'm going to wait until her other leg heals or it appears to be painful.But I think I could do it.How's your patient?


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Thor? He's hanging in there. At least he's eating and drinking.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

He's eating. But he's not looking any better. Still not putting any weight on the leg with the cast. I would have thought that there would be some improvement. It's been 10 days.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

I have a hen w/ a leg injury.I don't think it's broke.She's been in for 3 weeks or more and she just started standing on it w/o using her wing as a crutch.I get her out a couple of times a day for physical therapy and she stands/hobbles for a short time then lays down and back she goes.Her tail is standing up today and she's interested in the activities around her.If your chicken has a broken bone,it'll take time to heal,like your wrist.BTW,how is your wrist?


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

The bone in the wrist is healed. The rest of it is weak and stiff , so I give it a work out every day.

I've had 2 chickens with true broken legs that both recovered. However, my flock carries Marek's virus and sometimes only time will tell since one of the common signs is one leg paralysis, and I do find that as time goes on, it becomes 2 legs, then wings, then neck. They also lose their depth perception and look like they're eating but are not. 

I'll have to wait and see which ways he goes.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

He was eating but now it's like he's too weak to eat and we are back to green poop.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

He was looking better yesterday and actually using his leg more. I gave him a bigger bowl for food and he's eating more.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

Good!!!I'm glad he's eating,always a good sign.My leg injury is now jumping out of the box.I tried putting her out for a dirt bath but the other chickens wouldn't let her alone and we had to go back in the house.She still limps pretty good but she is moving around and coming to me for treats.I'm thinking about doing bumble foot surgery soon so it will also be healed when I kick her out.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Both broken legs I had in the past always limped the rest of their lives. The last one was given her own pen with a buddy and nothing available to jump on top of. I did give her aspirin on occasion . 

Hope yours does well.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

Gimpy is doing good,very active and eating everything.I had to put her in a storage tote because she won't stay in her box.The sides are higher and not a lot of room for jumping.Ruby came in and I can't hear her breathing today.I fed her 2 pieces of pills from my fingers.She gobbles the pills right up.She is the best thing I've ever caught on a fishing trip.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

I had to put Gimpy in a storage tote because she wants to roam the living room and dining room.It has higher sides and less room for jumping.Ruby came in and I can't hear her breathing today.She took 2 pieces of her pill from my fingers and gobbled them right up.She's a good hen.My best catch ever on a fishing trip.I wanted to worm everybody this weekend since we haven't had winter weather.Do you think it would be ok to worm Ruby or should I wait until the antibiotics are finished?


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## Maryellen (Jan 21, 2015)

Vodka? ?seminolewild please explain to me this....


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

CQ, I would wait till the abx are done. 

Maryellen, I was using vodka to get sick chickens really woozy before I got the axe. Now I give them a lot, like 50-60ml for a regular bird to euthanize. I tube it then wrap and hold them til they die, about an hour , sometimes 2. But they get sleepy, then go to sleep and eventually stop breathing. There doesn't seem to be any violence to it, and I haven't had any birds that seem upset. I'm sure the axe is faster and maybe better, but sometimes it just gets me too upset.


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## Maryellen (Jan 21, 2015)

I like the vodka idea, I can't use the axe but the whole going to sleep sounds much better. I have 2 that I have to euthanize and I'm trying to find a better way and this sounds good


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Just remember it's better to give them too much than too little. I've been using about 50ml on an average bird.


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## Maryellen (Jan 21, 2015)

You just syringe them.to drink it?


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I use a syringe and a tube, like a foley catheter or even aquarium tubing into their crop


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

A few months ago I had one who progressively went lame. Now I have a rooster that I'm treating for a "broken leg". Now I have another hen who's limping. These are birds that are 3-4 years old and except for the rooster, supposedly vaccinated for Marek's by McMc. If this last hen gets worse, I'll send her for a necropsy.


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## Maryellen (Jan 21, 2015)

Is it possible for them to have mareks,they are older and vaccinated?


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Marek's paralysis most likely shows up with chicks from 6 weeks to 12 weeks. I've had chickens get symptomatic at up to a year, and maybe a few over a year. These 3 lame birds were/are 3-4 years old.

I would say that if your flock has it, and you hatch chicks and eventually they go lame and die, it would be Marek's. That's more or less a sure sign.

I've seen so much and had several necropsied by a lab and have seen everything. My first ones were 10 chicks and 2 18 month old chickens . Some just wasted away, or lost their peripheral or depth of vision so they pecked at food but never picked any up.

The only way to prevent it is to vaccinate and quarantine day or two day old chicks for 3-8 weeks. Directions say 3, but I feel the longer the better. Out of the 26 chickens I have, 6 are not vaccinated, and of those, 4 are senior citizens. 3 will be 10 yrs old this winter.

And not only that, I've lost many from poor immune systems from Marek's exposure. That's why if they look sick to me, I hit them with 2 antibiotics and Corid or sulfadimethoxine. And I've learned that it's easier for them to die of common bacteria if there is intestinal damage from worms.

It's all very sad.

I've had these last batch of hatchery chicks that were supposed to be vaccinated , 2 died at one year old, then one at 3 years old. My silkies who I hatched 2 years later and vaccinated them myself- I still have all 10.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

If my current limping hen is worse, I'm moving her and the roo together into a hutch where there's less contact with others, then spray everything down with Virkon, and bleach everything else.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

It looks like Thor is not improving much and the hen is a bit worse. I hate to lose her because she has been so tame.
If I get more chickens at some point, it will be vaccinated hatchery chicks and revaccinated by me.

I read that a Marek's exposure can lead to immune suppression via B cells, so they are prone to catch any common illness out there. On top of that, Marek's affects T-cells which is supposed to trigger immune attack, but does not, and chickens eventually die from this. Mine have repeated that many times and many times antibiotics may just slow the bacteria for a while.

Marek's most commonly has symptoms of one leg lameness and continues to damage nerves elsewhere, and shows up between 6-20 weeks. That's most common. However, Marek's can show up at any age with an attack on sciatic nerves, vagal nerves which can cause gasping , crop paralysis, esophagus paralysis, wing and neck paralysis, a grey eye or a pupil that's oval, or wasting. Of course there are other ailments that can have the same symptoms. Then there is unthriftiness as well.


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## Maryellen (Jan 21, 2015)

Omg that's alot of symptoms.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I've done a lot of good reading and am living this since 2009. There's never much newer information available, it's hard to find current articles.


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## Maryellen (Jan 21, 2015)

Wow you did alot of reading . I'm so sorry you are going thru this


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

Sorry to know you have sick birds.That's my 2nd biggest fear for my chickens,getting a virus/bacteria and having it wipe out my entire flock.That's a reason why I started feeding a couple of cats and they are keeping most of the wild birds away.One cat is a sweet little lovable female.The other is a big orange tom cat who is not friendly at all.I named him Donald....


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

If you have flocks free from Marek's, you should maintain a closed group, which is hatching your own chicks, or getting day old hatchery chicks. Any chicken who's had contact with other chickens can carry Marek's. Like chickens from swaps and auctions, or bought from people with flocks. And it's something you can't quarantine for.


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## Maryellen (Jan 21, 2015)

I am.leaning to closing my flocks, I know of a few other friends who did. They are for me anyway, so I should close them. Just sell hatching eggs and bredas but otherwise hatch my own and make my own mixes


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I broke the rule once, and that's all it took. a silkie pullet from a breeder.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Well Thor had a cast in a small area for 6 weeks and I let him out yesterday. I'll take his cast off in a day or so. He walks well. Hopefully it was a broken leg and not Marek's.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

Good news!!!It's always great when they recover.My leg-injured hen walks without a limp and even started laying again.As soon as it gets warm again,out she goes.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Thor was on the roost tonight. With his cast still on.

CQ, One of my Polish had a broken hip bone and the vet taped it up and didn't think she'd make it. She laid an egg every day for 4 months and ate like a pig, and after 4 weeks she went out to a pen alone then, no perch. She had a gimp for 2 years and died and not to say they know, but I found her dead in their little dog house and her mom was actually with her. Amazing.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

Wow,that is amazing.Especially knowing the flock will usually try to take out the sick and weak.When I took Miss Piggy out for dirt bath on a warm day,the other chickens went after her and I had to bring her back in.When I put Blue Belle out,I noticed a big change in her behavior.She went from being the most docile to being aggressive and was bullying the other chickens.Then she stood at the front door and whined to get in the house.LOL Both have fully recovered and when it warms up again,out they go.I need their space for the goslings coming in May.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Thor was let out free with the other chickens, and I removed his cast last night. He seems fine. I'm glad it wasn't Marek's. I had so much tape on that thing it took me about 30 minutes to get the whole thing off.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

Hurray!!!I hope I can put mine out soon


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## Maryellen (Jan 21, 2015)

Awesome news on thor!!


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I had to catch my Polish rooster who squeals like a girl, and put cream on his face. He has pox all over it.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

That's funny!!!My red hen makes squeaky noises and no chicken noises.What is pox?It doesn't sound good...


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

The usual pox is a few black spots on a chicken's comb or waddles. Those are dry pox. But I have had a few in the past who had wet pox in their throat and that's worse. I've also had a silkie roo who grew these giant pox like dry spikes all over his face. I'll hunt that picture down.

You can't do much for pox. You can vaccinate them. Most are fine, but I have some chickens with immune issues from Marek's exposure and hope the pox does not grow out of hand. It makes me feel better to put cream on them.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

What kind of cream?I've seen black spots but always thought they were the result of pecking.I don't like reading stuff like that.Now I think my chickens have pox...LOL


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

chicken pox with the black spots are generally benign. cream does nothing but make me feel better. I spray the area bushes in the summer and it makes a difference.


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