# Jr.'s legs are bloody and raw



## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

3 days ago I noticed Jr.'s legs were bleeding and raw.1/2 the scales on his legs are gone.He is molting and has new feathers coming in.I don't know what's going on.I put ATB ointment on,along with some diaper rash cream.I don't think it's scaly leg mites but I have never dealt w/ them,I'm just going on what I read.Anybody else ever have this issue?Any suggestions on diagnosis or treatments?


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I think I would treat it as tho it were scaly mites. Any kind of ointment would work in also smothering them. Sometimes with ointment I sprinkle it with Sevin. I've never seen bloody legs on my chickens .


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

Burnt motor oil has worked very well with my birds and they had them bad!


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

If he's picking at them it could still be scaly leg mites. I've used Bag Balm and Petroleum Jelly to kill these little pests before with equal success. I'd try something along those lines first. if it heals great, if not it's something else and we'll need to look into it further.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

If you have Sevin powder, you can sprinkle a bit on top of the ointment. Also think about treating their roost. I wonder if hairspray would work on a roost?


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

I bet it would work for the adults, Sem, but I don't know about the eggs...( hairspray)


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

Use Nustock: http://www.nustock.com/indexfull.html
Most feed stores carry it in the horse section. Use blue nitrile gloves when you massage it into the legs. If birds are moulting, supplement water with poultry vitamins. If there's birds picking, you need to increase amino acid levels. A quick way is by feeding game bird pellets around 20-22% protein.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

Thanx everybody for your input.I'm keeping the area covered and hope the diaper rash cream is thick enough to smother mites,if that's what it is.My vaseline was really old and threw it out.I needed to buy some for my bug-out bag anyway.I have Permitherin Spray(sp.?) and I will spray everyone and everything.Too bad I posted this yesterday because Saturday we turned in our used oil but I'll save some in the future...


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

chickenqueen said:


> Thanx everybody for your input.I'm keeping the area covered and hope the diaper rash cream is thick enough to smother mites,if that's what it is.My vaseline was really old and threw it out.I needed to buy some for my bug-out bag anyway.I have Permitherin Spray(sp.?) and I will spray everyone and everything.Too bad I posted this yesterday because Saturday we turned in our used oil but I'll save some in the future...


Most diaper rash creams contain zinc oxide, which is toxic to birds, so would be best to get that cleaned off his legs ASAP.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I personally would not use used motor oil on mine due to contaminants. I'm not sure about the Nustock either because it's pine tar, sulpher and some oil. If I would have to wear gloves, it makes me not want to use it. It might be fine. 

I have used some permethrin spray, Vaseline, and Sevin at varying times. Poultry dust is good too. Maybe spray a bit of water on the legs and sprinkle. My silkie roo cleared right up with a and d ointment (I had it at the time), and a bit of fly spray made for horses and diluted.


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

seminolewind said:


> I personally would not use used motor oil on mine due to contaminants. I'm not sure about the Nustock either because it's pine tar, sulpher and some oil. If I would have to wear gloves, it makes me not want to use it. It might be fine.
> 
> I have used some permethrin spray, Vaseline, and Sevin at varying times. Poultry dust is good too. Maybe spray a bit of water on the legs and sprinkle. My silkie roo cleared right up with a and d ointment (I had it at the time), and a bit of fly spray made for horses and diluted.


Nustock is strong smelling but the gloves are merely for those who don't wish to get product all over their hands. Sulfur is an old time miticide that still works. Unless product penetrates under scales you are wasting your time.

1 part kerosene to 2 parts linseed oil used to work very well for scaly leg mites and was commonly recommended by top poultry science professors years ago. I never saw any sick birds as result when I was a kid and my Dad used it. New people often don't realize if you are treating a bird for scaly leg, you have to treat coops as well with an effective miticide after cleaning them out. I've never seen legs get bloody from scaly leg mites as chickenqueen described. They could be irritated/itchy and the bird began picking at it's legs/toes. Sulfur Salve and Nustock are two of the best remedies for Knemidocoptes mutans I've used, and I've used a number of things.

If the legs have sores, it may be a good idea to soak legs in very warm water mixed with Epsom salts for 15 minutes, dry the legs well, then apply Nustock product. The amount of zinc oxide from something like Desitin or other topicals will not be toxic to a chicken when used on legs or a sore around the vent. A chicken would likely need to eat a whole tube of zinc oxide ointment for it to be toxic. I've used it with no problems. Some people are so scared of misinformation as if it were true, I'm surprised they do anything sometimes.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

MikeA_15 said:


> Nustock is strong smelling but the gloves are merely for those who don't wish to get product all over their hands. Sulfur is an old time miticide that still works. Unless product penetrates under scales you are wasting your time.
> 
> 1 part kerosene to 2 parts linseed oil used to work very well for scaly leg mites and was commonly recommended by top poultry science professors years ago. I never saw any sick birds as result when I was a kid and my Dad used it. New people often don't realize if you are treating a bird for scaly leg, you have to treat coops as well with an effective miticide after cleaning them out. I've never seen legs get bloody from scaly leg mites as chickenqueen described. They could be irritated/itchy and the bird began picking at it's legs/toes. Sulfur Salve and Nustock are two of the best remedies for Knemidocoptes mutans I've used, and I've used a number of things.
> 
> If the legs have sores, it may be a good idea to soak legs in very warm water mixed with Epsom salts for 15 minutes, dry the legs well, then apply Nustock product. The amount of zinc oxide from something like Desitin or other topicals will not be toxic to a chicken when used on legs or a sore around the vent.* A chicken would likely need to eat a whole tube of zinc oxide ointment for it to be toxic.* I've used it with no problems. Some people are so scared of misinformation as if it were true, I'm surprised they do anything sometimes.


Not a chance I'm willing to take.


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

casportpony said:


> Not a chance I'm willing to take.


 You stated zinc oxide is toxic to chickens. Could you provide some information proving how toxic a zinc oxide topical is for a chicken?


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

MikeA_15 said:


> You stated zinc oxide is toxic to chickens. Could you provide some information proving how toxic a zinc oxide topical is for a chicken?


I said toxic to birds. Google it, or show me something that says it's okay to use.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Well all those ingredients may work, I just personally wouldn't use them. There are many ways to kill mites.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

The area on his legs is only where his new feathers are coming in,he's a Cochin mix.The scales are gone and the area is raw but just where the new feathers are coming in.I put antibiotic ointment on it 2-3 times a day.Thanx for telling me zinc oxide is toxic,didn't know that.I'll try to remember to take a pic and maybe someone can tell me what's going on.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Triple abx sounds good. Are you putting it on swiping from bottom to top?


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

Dale left his phone at his dad's and he just got it back so here are a couple of pics of Jr.'s legs-just ignore my fat legs...


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

This is why I prefer clean legged breeds. Irritation from mites could cause feather picking on the legs, or when the bird moults. Since it is inflamed a bit, you could do an Epsom salt soak for the bird's legs. You can also add some Permectrin II, or Ravap EC based upon label instructions, to the amount of water you will use for the soak. You can even use Adam's flea dip solution if you can't find the other two products.Treating birds with feathered legs is a pain with oils for scaly mites since dirt/dust adheres to the oil. 

Let us know how Junior is doing.


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

Could it be possible that his spurs are irritating his legs?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Considering we recommend using diaper creams on birds with irritated bottoms and to protect the skin from additional burning by feces and most commercial creams contain zinc oxide , the toxicity statement didn't make sense so I went looking. Turns out the toxicity is with ingestion not with topical application.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

nannypattyrn said:


> Could it be possible that his spurs are irritating his legs?


Good eye! .......


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

robin416 said:


> Considering we recommend using diaper creams on birds with irritated bottoms and to protect the skin from additional burning by feces and most commercial creams contain zinc oxide , the toxicity statement didn't make sense so I went looking. Turns out the toxicity is with ingestion not with topical application.


I mean this in the nicest way possible, but have you ever heard of a vet telling someone to use it?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Most vets don't know what we know about our birds. Diaper creams with zinc oxide have been used successfully for years. 

There are several publications on the net that state specifically zinc oxide is toxic with high levels of ingestion. Nothing is said about topical being toxic.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

robin416 said:


> Most vets don't know what we know about our birds. Diaper creams with zinc oxide have been used successfully for years.
> 
> There are several publications on the net that state specifically zinc oxide is toxic with high levels of ingestion. Nothing is said about topical being toxic.


And what if the bird eats the cream off it's bum or legs? Personally, it's not worth the risk to me, but I will call my vet and see what she says.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Gail Damerow says it can be used:







Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=g...an diaper rash cream be used on birds&f=false


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Nothing like Vaseline or triple abx ointment. Also A&D diaper ointment.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I do have some concern that this is something more than irritation from new feathers, pecking or mites. I've seen one other bird with legs that look like his, the bird was clean legged and the red rough looking appearance continued to spread on the bird's leg. If I remember right, the owner put the bird down because it was having a negative effect on his life.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

nannypattyrn said:


> Could it be possible that his spurs are irritating his legs?


He has a set of spurs,doesn't he? I was going to grind them down but the grinder broke.Keep thinking about the hot potato method but don't want to hurt him.His legs aren't as red as they were and the real raw spots appear to be healing.I can tell they are tender to touch but he's going about his business as usual.


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

Chickens can become the host to _Dermanyssus_ gallinae (also known as chicken or red mite). This mite only feeds on the bird at night, and during the day, it crawls off to sleep in cracks and crevices around the roosts or along walls near the roosts. For this reason, these mites may be difficult to see if the bird is examined during the daytime. The bite from these mites can cause a localized allergic reaction in the skin, and often a bird suffering from mite bites will have ragged feathers and red, itchy skin. They may also develop secondary bacterial or fungal skin infections. Here's more info on this particular mite: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/IN/IN107000.pdf

People often think Knemidocoptes mutans (scaly leg mites) when it comes to legs. Well feather legged breeds can also get these red mites biting around tender feather follicles. My suggestion is go out there at night with a light and look around and under roosts. Even if you don't see them, clean out the coop thoroughly, use an effective pesticide and spray the floors, roosts, nest boxes, walls, ceiling, paying attention to all cracks and crevices. Do this every 3-4 months and should be able to avoid this problem. I do it and haven't seen lice or mites for many years now.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Mike explained that pretty well. Okay, well. the bugs wouldn't even be on him.. I remember being on a finch board and one talking about how her whole bird room was infested mites, and she had to keep treating the room until she got rid of them. It took her months. But finches are delicate. At least there's stronger chemicals you can use with chickens.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Could his legs gotten burned or scalded? It looks a lot worse than mites. I think I might start with Epsom salt soaks. Then put 3xabx ointment on them. And leave it at that. Treat his perch. And try not to irritate the area. Whatever started it , it now looks kindof infected. I would def. go with soaks twice a day, or I cheat and wrap rags soaked in Epsom salts around his legs for a half hour twice a day. For finches with leg mites they use a product named Scatt, which is moxidectin, like ivermectin. They put a drop or two on each thigh... Soaking his legs will draw the swelling out.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

I used a pair of pliers and removed his spurs,they came off clean and easy-Dale wants to make a pair of horns out of them(sigh).I usually spray the flock and coop 1x a month with PermectrinII.Love that stuff!Out of 35 chickens 75% are Cochins or Cochin mixes,plus the Brahmas.Never thought about the fact most of them have feathered shanks/feet.None of the other chickens are suffering from this.His legs are slowly healing.There are no more excoriated areas and no bleeding tho it appears to still be tender to touch.The area is limited to just where new feathers are coming in,including the feathered toes.Think a baby aspirin will help with the pain?Do I give him whole one or 1/2 of one?


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