# Swollen Face Hen



## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

I went out this morning to feed, water, and let everyone out, and everything was pretty normal except I noticed a normally docile hen picking on my lowest in the pecking order. So I picked up the one being picked on and her whole face is swollen. I have no idea why but it was hindering her eyesight and I think that's why the other was picking on her.

This hen is about six months old - was the only bird I ever had to suffer frost bite of the feet, twice, and I still have no idea how. She has no toenails but gets around fine - however she is the absolute bottom of the hen hierarchy - the the point I was going to home her with a smaller flock. She won't even eat out of the same bowl my other hens do - I have been throwing food on the floor for her because she refuses to leave the barn and all the feeding stations are outside at this time of year... but this has always been the case.

I couldn't see any one else with a swollen face - but I did take her in the house to quarantine her. She's eating fine, she's drinking fine, she hasn't lost any weight, and she's acting fine, she hasn't pooped yet so I don't know about that. Her face just looks awful. I am wondering if she got into something or if this is some sort of disease. She does have yellowy eye crusties. You can see in the photo... Not really sure what to do about this other than wash her up a bit..??


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## chickenlovinmama (Jun 1, 2016)

Oh the poor dear. I would definitely quarantine her just to make sure it isn't cocci. Otherwise if it's from picking it's not likely to stop. You may have to give her her own little coop and run. Sorry I can't be of more help.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

I washed her eyes out, they're open and alert now. She pooped as well - solid and normal looking. No breathing difficulties, weird noises, or discharge or bubbles or anything to make me think it was respiratory problem. Though I didn't find any wounds either. Maybe sinus infection or allergic reaction to something?? I am a bit at a loss what to do other than keep her clean.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I think I'd try an antibiotic, preferably Tylan. And maybe a boric acid in water. If you can't find it they have it for contacts at the drug store.


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

Sometimes a sting from yellow jacket can appear as sinusitis with facial swelling caused by Mycoplasma. If this bird's face became swollen overnight, it could be from an insect (scorpion, yellow jacket, etc.) Here is some info on Mycoplasma Gallisepticum, a respiratory disease which would require you to separate the hen from the rest of the flock since it is an air-borne disease. The only reason it may not affect the others is due to immunity, but could become a problem.
Mycoplasma Gallisepticum:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps034

I don't like to tell people this, but birds that recover from this will still be carriers. The same goes for Coryza which often develops into respiratory disease. You may have to euthanize this hen and have a necropsy done to reveal what you are dealing with and if a vaccination program is desired. Here is a list of labs for testing by state which would be a small fee if any at all:
https://www.poultryimprovement.org/documents/AuthorizedLaboratories.pdf


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

We do have tent caterpillars everywhere this year... A huuuuge infestation, and I know they are super irritation to touch so I don't know. We also have yellow jackets. 

She has no respiratory symptoms what-so-ever. No coughing, no nasal discharge, no coffee percolator noises... nor do any of my other chickens have resp symptoms, though the myco thing concerns me a lot. I looked at the rest tonight and I can't tell if I am being paranoid or if a few others are very very mildly swollen. I hope I'm just being a worrywart. Guess it may be time to find a vet... see what it really is... Hope to high heaven it isn't myco because if it comes to flock termination I'm out. Have over 100 birds out there I have worked really hard to get set up right and doing well... haven't really let anyone out there for bio security reasons. Only ordered hatching eggs after that first initial set of chicks (from the hatchery.) I was being so careful. And if after two years of work and with everything finally running (a DIY incubator, customers, proper breeding pens and coops, a business registration from the town, an NPIP inspection planned) I don't think I could emotionally deal with that sort of blow. It'd be the end of it for me. 

Sincerely hoping this is just a sinus infection or something stupid and simple and not horrifically contagious.


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## zamora (May 26, 2015)

I'm hoping for the best for you. Please let us know what you find out?


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

Bad morning here. Pretty much all my roosters swelled up like balloons over night. Some of my hens. Calling in a vet. I am beyond lost and devastated at this point. I was sooo careful -- I have NO IDEA where this originated from. Looking out at the pastures I have been growing out for them and the new fencing we put up and the coops we're building and it's just too much. I hope the vet has some good news but I'm not feeling it right now.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

I known people don't like it ,but when animals are in the open they will get sick.That is why commercial farms don't free range.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

OMG! What is happening? I was reading up on Myco last night to see if I could pick up on any info. I thought it was not real easy to get because it has no walls and can't survive outside a chicken long. And it's easy to disinfect. The hatchery chicks are supposed to be clear of that.

If there is no respiratory symptoms, I hope it's something else. Years ago out of the blue I had a flock all get a one-eye infection. 3 died. The rest were treated with Tylan and sulfadimethoxine. I don't know which one took care of it but it was the only thing I had at home at the time. Aside from those who survived, I had one that still had a funky eye and I moved her into my bedroom. She recovered but had a "lazy" eye for a long time. But it cleared.

I hope the vet can culture the secretions. 

I had started out with a closed flock. A few hatchery chicks and the rest were hatched by me. I swore those would be my only sources. Unfortunately I broke that rule one time with a silkie pullet from a breeder at a swap. From that point on, I had a roo that got paralysis, then lost a chicken every few months from wasting. I had no idea. At one point I hatched 10 Polish under a silkie and they all died one by one with paralysis. Then I knew I had Marek's. I am pretty sure, like 99% that it was the one pullet.

If you have triple antibiotic ointment you can use it in their eyes. I have found that antibiotics can be cheaper in vaccine form. Jeffers has them and also syringes which are cheap so I buy 3ml syringes with 23g. needles at 20 at a time. It's more precise than powder.
Save panicing for later. No point now. I know how you feel. I can not sell or rehome any birds due to Marek's. I ended up with 7+ roosters at one point. I do know how you feel and hopefully the vet can fix the problem.

If needed you can sent a culture to your state animal disease lab . Or even Texas A&M. Or a dead bird (refridgerated). Small price to pay for knowing what's affecting your flock. Just don't give up hope now.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I know you're beyond devastation. It seems to always happen to the most careful people.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

Livestock vets in the area don't treat chickens for some inexplicable reason.... I have been forced to call an 'exotics' vet for a house call. God only knows what that's going to cost whenever she gets back to me (been calling all morning.) Thank God my boyfriend has stayed home today and has been calling around for me.... with no luck but still. I couldn't do it on my own without sounding hysterical.

I don't know what to think. There is no respiratory symptoms, just big swollen faces... and mostly roosters. I really don't get it. 

My first flock had Marek's but it was a closed pet flock and it didn't really matter that much (other than it sucking that a few died every now and then.) I wasn't selling anything and when I came here I started fresh with only vaccinated birds and vaccinated any chicks I bred here myself. I never lost one to Marek's here and thought I was doing good and everything was going well. I still don't know where this came from and suppose I never will.... did it come in on hatching eggs I bought? Did a sparrow drop it off? Was the neighbor's nuisance dog spreading this? Or was someone in my driveway close enough to cause this? (Because I do sell chicks out the front door of the house here... so our driveway...) I don't know but I am feeling at such a loss. We came sooo far. We *just* got our business licence off the town a week or two ago. Then we were going to do NPIP testing and then maybe buy farm insurance and that was going to be it. We've been doing hatches every 3 weeks and have 400 eggs in the incubator at the moment and some chicks... it was all starting to run so smoothly. SIGH.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

(Because I do sell chicks out the front door of the house here... so our driveway...)
did it come in on hatching eggs I bought? 
Did a sparrow drop it off?

If it is a disease them 3 would be my guess.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

Still waiting on the vet. Been calling all day... she's not responding. We called literally every other vet in the area and no one does chickens. I am going out of my mind. I want answers.


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

It is best to keep a closed flock in my experience with years of raising chickens. That means no new birds, mature or immature, can be introduced to an existing flock unless they are close in age and have been quarantined for 1 month with no signs of disease. You can have more birds as separate flocks, but they cannot be cooped, penned, or free ranged together unless you are absolutely sure they are disease free, and with that I mean viral diseases. I have found this to be the safest route. A virus means the bird is a carrier, and once it is in the flock it is there to stay. That is why I have all birds vaccinated for Marek's disease because I have had losses due to it. Now one can leave bird premises free of birds for a year, disinfect the hell out of it, and start over again. That will make a difference, but wild birds having access to your birds' feed and water stations can bring problems back. 

One of the worst things to do is buy birds at a show and bring them home. When dealing with a private breeder, it is best to meet and buy birds which have not entered the show area. Ask a breeder what they vaccinate, for if at all, and what problems they have experienced when it comes to diseases and mortality. If you aren't comfortable with the answer, move on. When you breed, pick only the healthiest birds, that have never shown sickness; i.e. hens that lay uniform, quality eggs, and roosters who have perfect posture and vigor according to the particular breed standard. Take 1 best rooster and 1-3 best hens, trim the vent feathers on the hen, band them so you don't confuse those of the same breed, set them in a breeding pen of adequate size and comfort for them to pick and scratch, and a shelter for privacy to lay eggs away from sunlight and activity during the day. 

Use poultry vitamin supplements in water as an addition to a breeder ration rather than standard lay rations. If you don't have a breeder ration in your area, use a Grower/Finisher as a feed and provide grit and oyster shell. Let those hens brood chicks in separate areas before 21 days, or hatch them in an incubator as marked eggs so you know which hen the eggs came from. People who breed for perfect feather color, I have no consideration for, since they only breed for vain reasons to win a show. Longevity and health should be the basis for breeding. The appeal to the eye is merely a bonus nature dictates. WeeLittlechicken, you likely know much of this but others may not. My thoughts went on a run, so hopefully you or someone may find it helpful. I hope the problem can be remedied. I dealt with MG years ago and it was frustrating, but have not had the problem for many years now.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

We were pretty much building up so this could be a closed flock. Like I said we were getting ready to do NPIP testing and in MA that means no chickens that leave the property can come back and no new chickens on the property (unless you get chickens off another NPIP farm - so forcibly a semi-closed flock.) I wasn't dragging visitors down there. I only bought a full grown bird once and did quarantine the crap out of him after getting him from a breeder who I talked to a lot and trusted. I did not do any shows for fear of disease. I started with NPIP marek's vaccinated chicks. From there on out, except for the aforementioned rooster, I only brought in hatching eggs. It wasn't enough. 

Now I have learned you can sterilize the outside of hatching eggs, which may help bring risk a little lower but not all states require NPIP participants to do anything about MG while others call for total flock "depopulation." NPIP is nice but with varying degrees of standards in each state it doesn't mean as much as I once thought. 

I keep getting told that chickens should be kept in buildings to protect them from the possible threat of disease carried in by wild birds or other things. It's a nice thought.... but the whole reason I had these chickens was to spoil them. I WANT them out in the field eating bugs and scratching at dirt and doing natural chicken things. It's just not the same to have them locked away in dark barns and buildings - maybe it's more sterile but I can't say it's better for them. I like them to have mental stimulation -- they wander so far on their own and get into all kinds of little adventures during the day. I am unrepentant about that. If I have to put them down at least I can say they had a good life. That means something to me. 

I should note to anyone reading - never buy anything at auction. Seriously. I have always known auctions are where less than scrupulous people go to anonymously make a buck off something they should have taken for a loss -- whether it's a matted angora rabbit two minutes away from fly strike, a set of potentially disease carrying chickens, an overbred puppy mill bitch whose ovaries are about to flop out on the ground, or a lame horse drugged out of it's mind so it looks normal, it's always the same -- something's probably up with whatever you're looking at.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

This is how my dearest is dealing with it. He's added a weather vane to the top of our coop on wheels. We were still in the process of building it... I said we probably won't need it anymore.  He insists we will. I am not so certain.


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

Oh no! I'm so sorry :-( Did you figure out anything new? I'm thinking some kind of contact dermatitis or allergic reaction. If they were people....the doctor would go right to allergy or contact allergy. Hmmmmmm. Anything else new? Sawdust from plywood? A plant blooming?


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

Eye worms?


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)




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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

You are giving me a lump in my throat. 

You could call Texas A&M and see how to send them an eye culture. It's an easy thing to do. Maybe they can send you the tube too. Or see if your state animal disease lab will help you.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

You need to get a necropsy performed on your sickest bird. Contact your local extension office or state agriculture department for more info. There are 3 possibilities: Mycoplasma Gallistepticum (MG,) Infectious Coryza, Infectious Bronchitis (IB,) or a combination of any of them. Wild birds can introduce any of the diseases. MG can be passed through infected eggs as you know. 
IB spreads the quickest, telltale signs are wrinkled eggs and watery whites. It is a virus and not treatable, only secondary bacterial infection can be treated with antibiotics.
Coryza produces a foul odor around the head area.
I personally would cull my flock for any of these diseases simply because they will be carriers forever, and stress causes relapses of symptoms. Birds get stressed easily, including by the disease itself. Also, sick birds dont lay eggs and even if they did while on medications, there are usually withdrawal periods.
Here are incubation and course times for these diseases:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/p...verview_of_infectious_coryza_in_chickens.html
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/p...view_of_infectious_bronchitis_in_poultry.html
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/p...lasma_gallisepticum_infection_in_poultry.html
MG technically stays in the environment for no more than 3 days after depopulation. However it is often in conjunction with another disease in sick birds, such as coryza. This is another reason a necropsy needs to be done, in order for you to repopulate sometime in the future. If it were strictly MG, you could repopulate in a weeks time frame. I would disinfect inside hen houses, waterers, feeders first though, where sunlight cant kill the MG bacteria. Bleachwater in a sprayer will do the trick.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

Well... the vet from Tufts got back to us via e-mail to say she's out of office until the 20th. She did ask a couple questions and offered for us to bring a chicken into the clinic -- knowing it can spread to cage birds as well we declined. No need to put anyone's pet parakeet at risk. Waiting for her to respond back.

Got a lead on another vet this morning. Called her. She's holistic, thinks it might just be the caterpillars they're reacting to. She gave us something to try and asked for us to call back in a day or two. If they haven't improved by Monday she's going to come out and do a more traditional routine. It'd be so nice if she were right... but I am not really allowing myself to get my hopes up. The hen to first come down with has been in the house and caterpillar free for two days now with no improvement. She hasn't gotten worse... but there's also no reason to believe she's getting better. Plus I think the reason I don't have other symptoms is because I caught it way early. But it has been literally raining caterpillars and caterpillar poop (called frass!) for a few weeks now. They are EVERYWHERE. You can't go outside without getting them on you.










At this point if it's something serious it doesn't really matter what it is because the results are the same. I left the doors to the barn open last night hoping the added ventilation would help others not get sick. My goal now is really to prevent as much suffering as I can until answers can be found. In the meanwhile all my roosters are looking pretty puffy and now some hens as well.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

I myself would consider doing some clear cutting.Seems like you're in a heavy wooded area with lots of critters and wildlife.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Even tho what Dawg and NM say is what you should do, being the person that I am, I would want to culture the eyes or get a necropsy and find out what it is first. If you're starting a breeding business, it may mean sending a dead chicken for a necropsy to help decide what happens to all the other chickens.


Has anyone died yet? Have any recovered? I really do think you need a true diagnosis , and you may end up having to cull.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

> I myself would consider doing some clear cutting.Seems like you're in a heavy wooded area with lots of critters and wildlife.


We are in a heavily wooded area but most of our property has been cleared already. What remains is the are a few trees to the sides and in the way back over the hill where the chickens rarely go. We recently fenced that in as we're getting goats in two weeks and there was lots of shrubs for them to eat out there. One pasture and the barn are right on the borer of the neighbor's property which has quite some trees. So not much I can do there. This is the main pastures, minus the side one.












> Has anyone died yet? Have any recovered? I really do think you need a true diagnosis , and you may end up having to cull.


No one has died. I don't think egg production has gone down -- but that's so hard to say, they often find new hiding places and sooo many have gone broody lately!

Worst comes to worst I could cull the first hen to come down with it and send her to the state lab. I haven't yet because I want to see how this vet thing pans out first. No one's gotten really bad - no one seems to be suffering except maybe one roo who is not himself. He's not fluffed up or lethargic he's just... seeking out quiet corners and napping which he never used to do. We'll see. I'll put this herbal stuff she told me to try in their water. If it works I'll be overjoyed. if it doesn't she's coming out to the farm and I am insisting on tests.... holistic or not I am getting answers from someone.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

I'd take a couple trees if i could, i could use a couple.LOL


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

What beautiful pictures, both of you! I love green. Florida is green but it's an odd kind of green.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

It's greener now as we have been trying to grow out that middle pasture. Eventually we will grow it all out. Last owners sold the place to us bald - whole place bald and rocky. We have spent a lot of time digging up rocks, spreading loam and manure, and reseeding. This is our second year working on it. It was important to us to have it green to sustain the chickens as well as anything else we might get in the future and they love it! They also do remarkable little damage to it (in other words they haven't worn any grown out spots bald again.) Florida has it's own beauty. I am attaching two of my favorite photos at the bottom here that I took in Florida five years ago... gorgeous!

Updates: Yesterday's dosing of their water (with apis mellifica) to combat possible caterpillar allergies did not go well. It was raining so the little brats drank out of the puddles and literally everywhere but their designated buckets. One of the roosters had boogery eyes last night. Seems fine this morning. Everyone is still eating like a bear. I just don't know what to make of this. Today's not raining so we'll see if this whole caterpillar thing works. If not I will be scheduling a farm visit from the vet to get some actual tests done during the week. I'm feeling run down and a bit numb at the moment. Don't want to get my hopes up for anything.


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

Apis Millefica is a honey bee. The vet is recommending you dose water with bee venom? What the heck is that vet doing? Clearly this is a respiratory issue so a culture should be done first to see if it viral. When I hear "homeopathic vet", I go the opposite direction. Your birds have a great environment. I would seek a different vet since this one you are using doesn't know what he/she is doing.


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

MikeA_15 said:


> Apis Millefica is a honey bee. The vet is recommending you dose water with bee venom? What the heck is that vet doing? Clearly this is a respiratory issue so a culture should be done first to see if it viral. When I hear "homeopathic vet", I go the opposite direction. Your birds have a great environment. I would seek a different vet since this one you are using doesn't know what he/she is doing.


Bee venom potentiates the bodies immune response. So, if it is allergic in nature, the chickens immune system will be working harder. Many modern human chemotherapy medications are working more towards guving our immune system the right tools to rid our body of cancerous cells. Bee venom works differently when taken the oral route versus the subcutaneous route.

Without a vet, a prescription medication cannot be obtained in many areas... clearly the chicken handlers hands are tied until the time a vet can come out. Homeopathic can be useful...and often it's the only option while we wait. I think it's sure better than nothing.


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

heididmitchell said:


> Bee venom potentiates the bodies immune response. So, if it is allergic in nature, the chickens immune system will be working harder. Bee venom works differently when taken the oral route versus the subcutaneous route.
> 
> Without a vet, a prescription medication cannot be obtained in many areas... clearly the chicken handlers hands are tied until the time a vet can come out. Homeopathic can be useful...and often it's the only option while we wait. I think it's sure better than nothing.


 I know what anti-venom is used for, which will not do anything for birds likely suffering from CRD, Coryza, or Aspergillosis. A culture should have been sent to a lab by the vet, not treatment with anti-venom. Homeopathic remedies are worthless unless one wants to waste money and perpetuate sick birds.


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

But sending a culture when a vet isn't available isn't possible. It's likes humans getting labs draw without a ln MD order....just won't happen. If a human needs antibiotics for a UTI, they have to have a doctor order a urine sample, wait for the results, and then prescribe antibiotics. While we wait for that process (and for a doctor to be in their office) we resort to homeopathic and home remedies like cranberry juice. Same deal. How do we treat these poultry diseases without the availability of a poultry vet??


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

heididmitchell said:


> But sending a culture when a vet isn't available isn't possible. It's likes humans getting labs draw without a ln MD order....just won't happen. If a human needs antibiotics for a UTI, they have to have a doctor order a urine sample, wait for the results, and then prescribe antibiotics. While we wait for that process (and for a doctor to be in their office) we resort to homeopathic and home remedies like cranberry juice. Same deal. How do we treat these poultry diseases without the availability of a poultry vet??


What state do you live in?


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

I got the homeopathic vet by phone consult on the weekend. It was literally the only vet I could get to do anything -- so a phone consult was better than nothing. The more classic vet that everyone keeps suggesting FINALLY returned repeated calls only to say she'd be out until the 20th... not helpful. I called a LOT of vets. So rather than sitting on my ass and waiting for things to get worse I decided to give it a go. Because my chickens lack respiratory symptoms (they are not coughing, choking, struggling to breath, sneezing, do not have nasal discharge, and are not losing weight - literally their only symptom is a swollen face) the holistic vet believed it wasn't MG or the other big similar diseases. She felt it was an allergic reaction to the caterpillars. I've seen human MS and arthritis patients benefit greatly from actual fresh bee venom before - so I think I understand where she's coming from but yeah, I'm skeptical too. Not because it's bee venom, more so because it's at dosages so low I don't think it'll do anything for anyone... but like I said, I'd rather do something than not, and if it works that'd be wonderful, if it doesn't she promised to do a farm visit. AT that point I could get actual tests done... You just got to work with what you have in these situations.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I don't think it's MG or Coryza either. The pics really are not showing swollen sinus' but tissue around the eyes. The original suggestion of a sting or allergic reaction could be what you're seeing. 

Do a test, dose them with children's' liquid Benadryl. If the swelling goes down you know the cause and can search out the origin. 

I do not recommend throwing antibiotics at them immediately. More information is needed.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

WeeLittleChicken said:


> I got the homeopathic vet by phone consult on the weekend. It was literally the only vet I could get to do anything -- so a phone consult was better than nothing. The more classic vet that everyone keeps suggesting FINALLY returned repeated calls only to say she'd be out until the 20th... not helpful. I called a LOT of vets. So rather than sitting on my ass and waiting for things to get worse I decided to give it a go. Because my chickens lack respiratory symptoms (they are not coughing, choking, struggling to breath, sneezing, do not have nasal discharge, and are not losing weight - literally their only symptom is a swollen face) the holistic vet believed it wasn't MG or the other big similar diseases. She felt it was an allergic reaction to the caterpillars. I've seen human MS and arthritis patients benefit greatly from actual fresh bee venom before - so I think I understand where she's coming from but yeah, I'm skeptical too. Not because it's bee venom, more so because it's at dosages so low I don't think it'll do anything for anyone... but like I said, I'd rather do something than not, and if it works that'd be wonderful, if it doesn't she promised to do a farm visit. AT that point I could get actual tests done... You just got to work with what you have in these situations.


Contact your state animal disease lab. Mine would send me a culturette. I think Kathy can help you find the phone number. You don't need a vet to send a culture. Texas A&M has a huge poultry division and do labs . In fact, you don't even need a vet for antibiotics. We all know where to get them cheap.

You are starting a breeding program. You do need to find out what this is

. I know that I thought it was going to be this long complicated thing to send a dead bird for a necropsy. I got everything in advance. The Styrofoam cooler and box, plastic bags, the form to fill out and send with it, and the check. When the next chicken died, I put her in 3 plastic trash bags and put her in the fridge until I could send her. It was easy and now I have the method down. I felt I owed it to my flock to see what was going on.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Your state vet is listed here:
http://www.usaha.org/Portals/6/StateAnimalHealthOfficials.pdf

They would know how to get testing done and might be able to refer you to a vet near you. Your state is an odd one in that I don't think they have a "state" lab.
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

Vet search links:
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
http://www.majesticwaterfowl.org/vetfinder.htm


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

heididmitchell said:


> But sending a culture when a vet isn't available isn't possible. It's likes humans getting labs draw without a ln MD order....just won't happen. If a human needs antibiotics for a UTI, they have to have a doctor order a urine sample, wait for the results, and then prescribe antibiotics. While we wait for that process (and for a doctor to be in their office) we resort to homeopathic and home remedies like cranberry juice. Same deal. How do we treat these poultry diseases without the availability of a poultry vet??


Not true... as long as you know how to collect it, and and ship it, you can have many tests done at a number of labs.

Treating them without a vet can also be done, but it does require having certain medications and supplies on hand.


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

How long does it typically take to send out and get the results for these tests though?


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

heididmitchell said:


> How long does it typically take to send out and get the results for these tests though?


You would have to call and ask because it depends on what types of tests are performed and you may have to pay or not pay, just depends. Deadly diseases such as Bird Flu and Newcastles Virus; have no worries, they will contact you wearing decon gear at your residence. You know; those men that wear the funny white suits and breathing apparatus and drive those weird looking government decon trucks...

BTW: Bee venom might work in humans and other mammals, but not birds. It's a whole different ballgame with birds. Bee venom closes the trachea in birds causing them to suffocate. That's why childrens benadryl must be given to birds with insect or scorpion stings, if it's not too late.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

heididmitchell said:


> How long does it typically take to send out and get the results for these tests though?


Overnight shipping, then actual time waiting depends on the tests.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

Today's a better day. My original hen, who is still in the house and soaking up the attention, seems to be improving despite the fact I didn't treat her with anything at all, not even bee venom. She was sort of my control... with no vets helping me I wanted to know how this disease would progress. She never developed any other symptoms besides a swollen face and has been eating, pooping, breathing, perfectly normally. No more chickens have come down with it in 24 hours. The caterpillars are starting to cocoon and die off. 

I have one rooster who is bad though. I would like to give the Benedryl a try for him. What is the dosage for a chicken? 

I will still be testing for MG when the NPIP people come out. More for my own peace of mind than anything... and until their swollen faces are normal I have ceased selling any chicks or eggs from here, and I might continue to do that until the NPIP people do their job. Either way the big scary diseases will be ruled out one way or another.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

1/2 cc. 

This sounds more like an event and not a disease process. Just take your time and don't panic, chances are you'll find the source.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

WeeLittleChicken said:


> Today's a better day. My original hen, who is still in the house and soaking up the attention, seems to be improving despite the fact I didn't treat her with anything at all, not even bee venom. She was sort of my control... with no vets helping me I wanted to know how this disease would progress. She never developed any other symptoms besides a swollen face and has been eating, pooping, breathing, perfectly normally. No more chickens have come down with it in 24 hours. The caterpillars are starting to cocoon and die off.
> 
> I have one rooster who is bad though. I would like to give the Benedryl a try for him. What is the dosage for a chicken?
> 
> *I will still be testing for MG when the NPIP people come out. More for my own peace of mind than anything... *and until their swollen faces are normal I have ceased selling any chicks or eggs from here, and I might continue to do that until the NPIP people do their job. Either way the big scary diseases will be ruled out one way or another.


Might want to test for all mycoplasma, not just MG.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I would also scrub out the buckets with bleach (you probably did that), and maybe try a different brand of chicken feed for a month. Also look around for anything they ate as a group. Like Kathy said, it sounds like an event.

Glad it's not something that killed them off. I have had a chicken with a swollen face but I can't remember why. I think it was snowflake who was wasting and skinny and not looking to good, so I tube fed her and gave her antibiotics and after a week I put her back in the pen and she got fat again. No idea why, just glad possibly the antibiotics did the trick.

Not for nothing, I have learned to keep a few things in my medicine drawer. Just basic stuff I would not want to wait to get. Corid or Sulfadimethoxine ( I had the sulfad. because it works for enteritis as well. A general injection antibiotic like Tylan which covers more than respiratory, sometimes Penicillin, which is general, Jeffers sells 3ml syringes with 23 gauge needles really cheap so I get a dozen, gauze, 3x abx ointment, betadine, Epsom salts, and urine catheters for feeding tubes, and some 60 ml syringes.. Most of this stuff is cheap and worth having. With chicks it's always good to keep an anticoccidial on hand because if they get coccidiosis, they and die quick. Maybe you know all this stuff. I think it's the basis, and there's more to add but I don't want to make a long list.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

Thank you all who advised Benedryl. I have been giving it to my worst rooster who couldn't even open his eye on one side and it's done a lot to help with the swelling! He can now open and close the eye and it doesn't look nearly as red or puffy though he still has a ways to go. I was giving him Benedryl twice a day, I forgot to ask how often I was supposed to give it.. Most of the milder cases are starting to go away on their own and tonight I will probably herd up some of the more severe cases for a dosage, though none of them looked nearly as bad as that one poor roo. He was just miserable, now he's just pissed for being singled out! I am so relieved.

I have been washing the watering buckets but it's a futile task. Every time I go out there the buckets are COVERED in fuzzy irritating caterpillars, some drown in the water but most around the rims. I guess this explains why my roosters are having the worst time of it - their wattles keep coming in contact with them. We normally have tent/gypsy caterpillars every year but this year it's in plague proportions. They're even infesting our house because every time I go outside they rain down on me, get on my clothes, and come in! I am itchy and rashing as well so I can only imagine how the chickens are dealing. I can't wait for the little SOB's to turn into moths and leave us all alone! They ate 6 of my 50 foot oak trees in less than a week!! I hope they recover but they're been _completely_ defoliated. There's not a scrap of leaf on them. The caterpillars meanwhile have moved onto the maples, other trees, and for the ones who got lost they're even getting desperate enough to eat the clovers in the back field.

I have always had an animal medical kit around -- oral and hypodermic syringes, bandages, antibiotic ointment, eye ointments of various kinds, nail clippers, Baytril for my bunny that likes getting UTI's, and I did have Tylan - though it was expired. I normally have Pen G on hand, not sure why I don't today. I used to have Corrid on hand too at the last property - someone always had cocci there. I have yet to see it here, though I shouldn't talk too loud. Most of those meds are on the ban list for next year. Guess I will be stocking up in Dec. :| I never thought of using a catheter as a feeding tube! I had bought French feeding tubes int he past... but not for chickens! I will keep that in mind!


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

The meds aren't being banned you will need prescription from a vet.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

Same difference if you can't find a vet to work with you... I am still working on that one.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I knew those caterpillars were annoying. But they de-leaf whole trees? I'm not having any yet. But when we do, down my shirt, down my pants, it's really a PIA.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

Oh yes, they have currently completely eaten 7 large oaks, are half-way through my poor maple, and out of desperation are now dropping green pine needles everywhere. Here's the oaks - that's the top of the barn at the bottom so you can see they are not small trees!


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

How is the swollen face hen?


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