# Vaccinate ??



## englishchick (Aug 17, 2012)

Hi All,

I have six hens, four of which are ex bat. They have all been ill with some bronchial infection for quite some time and have been on Tylan a couple of times to help them. They are recovered or though one of the them is sneezing at times, but they are all eating and drinking well and behaving normally. I also have two new RIR pullets who havent become ill. I wonder if they are carriers of the infection or they may have been vaccinated previously.

My dilemma is I want to hatch some of my own next year and if I do they will without doubt get the infection so I want to make sure they stay as healthy as possible and presumably the only answer is to vaccinate the new chicks as soon as possible.

Any advice more than welcome.

K xx


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## new2coop (Jul 28, 2012)

I would like to know the same answer to this.


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## toybarons (Nov 14, 2012)

Mycoplasmosis, commonly called CRD [Chronic Respiratory Disease], is used to describe many different respirator diseases in poultry. CRDs can be related to us like a cold and the flu. We all get them and we have been exposed to them. Some CRDs are like a cold in that a chicken may catch it and get over it even without treatment. Some CRDs can be more like the flu, such as ILT or Infectious Newcastles where an infected bird can potentially infect and the virus kill a flock within days of exposure.

I am not a vet and this is just my opinion based on what you posted. It sounds like some of your birds have a CRD and I would say a common one. Most common type is a bird will sneeze, wheeze, maybe a slight rattle when they breathe and possibly bubbles from the eye or sinus. Usually this sort of CRD takes up to 14 days for a bird to recover. Tylan is a very good treatment for this type of CRD. I like to treat my birds for at least 5 days to a week. At this time you may want to add vitamins to their water to help with recovery.

You are right in that a recovered bird does become a carrier or whatever CRD they had. Also right in that some CRDs can be passed from hen to chick through the egg. My understanding from what I've read is that the incubation of the CRD in the chick begins once it hatches. As most CRDs take from 7 to 14 days to incubate once a bird is exposed this is why some chicks will go through a die off after 2 weeks of when the hatched.

Treating birds with CRD is a grey area. Both in the USA and Canada, there are some CRDs that must be reported if they are suspected in your flock. Reportable diseases in poultry can be found by going in the USA to the USDA website and in Canada to the CFIA website. When it comes to other CRDs, treating birds becomes more a personal opinion and of choice. Some will choose to cull a sick bird while others will treat. As there are no state or provincial laws on mild forms of CRDs, it really leaves it up to the flock owner.

If you choose to treat and breed adult birds and you want to protect your chicks there are medications that can help you. I was just reading of one such product called LS-50 which I think is available in the USA but not sure about Canada yet. It is a water soluable powder that you put in the drinking water for the first 7 days. Tylan in its powdered form can also be given to chicks to help give them a healthy start. Tiamulin [product name Denagard] in its liquid form goes also in drinking water and can help chicks. Tylan is approved for poultry in both the USA & Canada. In the USA Denagard can be bought for poultry. I know here in Canada, the CFIA has not approved its use for poultry BUT it is okay to use for swine. What is sold here in Canada is the same product sold in the USA and I know people here in Canada who do use it to treat their backyard flocks.

Last is your adult chickens who are still sneezing even after treatment. I have that within my own flock. As there are no laws either in the USA or Canada that says you must cull such a carrier, again it comes to the flock owner to decide the bird's fate. If you practice Bio Security to the letter, you likely will cull the bird. However, if you believe in natural immunization of your flock, you will keep the carrier and allow others to come into contact with it. I do want to stress that if you choose to practice natural immunization, be responsible and familiarize yourself with the types of CRDs that ARE REPORTABLE. Nothing wrong to allow nature to do its thing but some CRDs are dangerous with good reason. Read, educate and when in doubt, quaratine your flock, watch and if you have a quick sudden die off it is best to cull rather than risk.

Again, these are just my opinions. I am not a vet nor an expert.


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## new2coop (Jul 28, 2012)

Can the products you listed to treat these problems create a hazard eating the eggs? Your statement shows how much more you know than me regarding this. Is their a vaccination in the form of a shot that can be given annually to each chicken? I would prefer not to see them get sick in the first place. Can a chicken get sick even though no other chickens are around for miles?


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## toybarons (Nov 14, 2012)

I'm not an expert and someone more knowledgable can correct me. Large commerical hatcheries use Formalin which is a generic term which describes a solution of 37% formaldehyde gas dissolved in water on day old chicks to pretreat them against disease. The chicks go through a sprayer that mists the Formalin over the chicks which they inhale. As these are chicks whose product, meat or egg, will not be entering the market immediately, I am thinking that by the time they do there is a sufficient withdrawl time from when the drug was admistered. I would them believe the same would be the case for backyard poultry if using a CRD treatment on day old chicks for their first 7 days of life. As their meat or eggs would not be consumed for some time, any drug given would not pose a problem.

Withdrawl times are much different for birds whose product are ready for consumption. All the ones which I am aware of have suggested withdrawl times before either meat or eggs can be safely eaten after treatment, while others don't recommend eating either meat or egg after treatment. That is why it is important to read the product labels carefully if you do chose to treat a sick bird for CRD.

Also treatment approval varries from country to country. A good example is Baytril which is used to treat CRD in adult poultry in the USA but was withdrawn for use in poultry here in Canada. In Canada you can still buy Baytril for cattle but only under certain circumstances will a vet prescribe Baytril for poultry. In my case, I had a sick rooster with a bad respirator infection. As my bird was used for breeding purposing only and I had no intentions of eating him, my vet did prescribe Baytril and my roo recovered.

As far as I know there is no single vaccine to cover a spectrum of CRDs to give to chicks, only vaccines that target specific ones like Infectious Newcastles. Drug companies have discussed the manufacture and marketing of drugs specifically for chicks that would be sort of a "one shot" to cover the more severe CRDs like ILT [ Infectious Laryngotracheitis ] and AI [Avian Influenza]. From what I read this kind of vaccine is always in progress and hard to say if and when one would be made available. All drugs are marketed to the commercial operations and would be more towards layers rather than broilers. As many commerical operators feel they already operate bio-secure fortresses, many of them would likely only support the development of a "one shot" if it was cost affordable to them. How this applies to us is that drug companies don't see a market for the millions they need to shell out to make a vaccine so a backyard owner with a flock of a few chickens can be protected. Which is funny when you think that if they did the math and added up all of us with a few poultry, I bet you we would warrant the dollars for such a vaccine just as much as would the commercial poultry industry.


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## toybarons (Nov 14, 2012)

Yes, a chicken can get sick even if no other chicken or poultry is around for miles. Wild birds and vermin can pass diseases onto chickens. You yourself can pass a disease to your flock just by going onto another property where someone has chickens. Go to a poultry show and you run potential risk of bringing something back with you as some viruses can live for a few hours on your clothes. 
Basically you would have to have a flocked tested and come up negative for disease then keep those birds in a sealed, controlled enviorment where anyone who comes into contact with your flock would have to follow strict to-the-letter bio security rules so as not to risk passing on a disease for a bird to be 99% free of disease. Then you would have to wonder where the fun would be if you had to keep poultry that way?


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## englishchick (Aug 17, 2012)

Hi,

Thanks for responding to this.

It is good that people can give such good advice out there. Hen keeping is still fairly new to me and i am trying to learn as much as i can. i think to keep any hens i add to my flock as healthy as possible i will go down the vaccinating route I hate to see them sick and if i can prevent and further additions from getting this disease then i will do my best to do that. The ex-bats are nearly three years old and i want them to live out their lives as much and as well as possible. i dont think i will ever make them completely well again but i dont want this infection to kill them either.

Thanks for all the replies. Its a great forum and and i am learning so much!

K x


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## toybarons (Nov 14, 2012)

englishchick one important thing you should be also doing is practice quaranting any new birds for 30 days before introducing them to your flock. Make sure that the feeders and waters you use are not exchanged between your quaranted birds and your healthy flock. Also practice attending your healthy flock first before doing birds you have quaratined. If you want, you can have a boot wash that you can walk through before going into each coop so as not to track in potential disease and keep a handwash in your cooping area so you can clean your hands whenever you handle any birds.


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