# Organic hatchery



## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

I found a hatchery not too far from us that I contacted regarding Mareks vaccine and others. I was told emphatically that they do not use vaccines or antibiotics of any kind. I was also told that as long as I kept my pens and hens clean that I shouldn't have any problems. 
Nothing but your thoughts on this. I'm not out to belittle or bad mouth anyone.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

If they are truly organic they can't use vaccines or antibiotics.

Really just depends if you want the vaccine.


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

I really don't have a problem in using them or antibiotics. However, I have to look at economics of using a lot of intervention ( no offense to anyone at all intended ). So in that light ,I would prefer to have vaccines.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Well, I'm going to step in to it right about now. 

How stupid!!! Being organic is one thing but to be anti vax to protect the living organism from preventable disease is beyond ignorant. And to use the argument to keep things clean and all will be hunky dory is major head in the sand mentality. I'd be afraid to buy from anyone like that because if that is their written in stone belief they are probably the same ones that would send something that would infect my flock.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

But that is what fuels the backyard movement.Providing eggs that are better ,healthy and supposedly safer then the grocery store.
They want free range chickens but then you cant treat them when they get sick.
Legally in Organic you have to treat a sick chicken, but then they cant be used in OG production any longer.


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

Agreed, Robin. I did almost organic gardening for years until I finally got tired of bugs and worms thumbing their little noses at me and eating my plants. That said, I don't have any problems with the use of vaccines or other meds with my flock. My furry critters all have their yearly vaccines as well. 
I think the tetotallers against human vaccines are whats causing the recurrence of whopping cough and other diseases that were once thought extinct.


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

Nm, I would rather eat an egg from a chicken that has been kept healthy by use of vaccines and other meds, than one I'm not sure of.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

nannypattyrn said:


> Nm, I would rather eat an egg from a chicken that has been kept healthy by use of vaccines and other meds, than one I'm not sure of.


I hear ya, but some people don't see it that way.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

My experience is that most hatcheries wont vaccinate for anything unless requested and paid for by the buyer. That said, there are some vaccines that shed the disease onto soil, contaminating the soil. Please correct me if I'm wrong; I believe marek's and infectious bronchitis/newcastles disease fall into this category, which contain live micro organisms. Infectious laryngotracheitis (ILT) vaccination in my understanding isnt very effective. 
I'm a firm believer in tight biosecurity. I avoid shows, swap meets etc...and maintain a closed flock. The only contageous disease I've had to deal with is fowl pox. I once thought I had a mild case of MG in two birds which were separated from the get go away from my other birds. Turns out it was a fungus causing MG-like symptoms, oxine took care of it.
Whether to vaccinate birds or not is a personal choice. I've never had birds vaccinated and never will. If my birds get a transmittable disease, they will be culled. If the soil is contaminated, like with marek's, that will be the end of my chicken keeping and will take up raising hogs. 
As far as humans go; everybody should be vaccinated. Human life is more important.
BTW: I have no issue eating eggs or meat from vaccinated birds, cows, hogs, goats, turkey's etc...meat on the table!


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

Thx for the input Dawg! This is very much a learning session for me. I grew up in the country with country raised animals, all free range and grass fed. Dad supplemented feed in the winter months. All I remember our chickens eating were kitchen scraps and maize. He never used any kind of meds except maybe topical ointments for cuts and stuff. I grew up plenty healthy.
We all were vaccinated against what was known in the 50s and 60s. I've heard horror stories of "hydrophbia" (rabies),lockjaw (tetanus) & whooping cough.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

So what happens if half of your flock has had the Marek's vaccine and the other hasn't?


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> So what happens if half of your flock has had the Marek's vaccine and the other hasn't?


I'm really not sure since I've never had birds vaccinated. I would think if it's a live vaccine, non vaccinated birds would pick it up, maybe become immune to the full effect of the disease. I dont know if the same thing occurs with other live vaccines as well. I'm not sure if that's how it works though. Seminolewind and I think Robin have dealt with this.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

nannypattyrn said:


> Thx for the input Dawg! This is very much a learning session for me. I grew up in the country with country raised animals, all free range and grass fed. Dad supplemented feed in the winter months. All I remember our chickens eating were kitchen scraps and maize. He never used any kind of meds except maybe topical ointments for cuts and stuff. I grew up plenty healthy.
> We all were vaccinated against what was known in the 50s and 60s. I've heard horror stories of "hydrophbia" (rabies),lockjaw (tetanus) & whooping cough.


You're right Patti. Back in those days the "regular" childhood diseases were the big things to get vaccinated for. With all these new diseases; some I've never heard of, makes me wonder where in the heck they came from?
One could say they showed up with all the world travelers coming and going from country to country in the jet age. Perhaps. But what about all the troops returning home from all the wars overseas. I havnt heard of any diseases being introduced on a grand scale by that means, have you?


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

No, I haven't. What we are privileged to be vaccinated for now and then, 3rd world countries still suffer. The bible says in , I think, Ecclesiastes that there is nothing new under the sun. ( very loose paraphase I'm sure.


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## 8hensalaying (Jun 5, 2015)

Was this farm owned by Jenny McCarthy lol, I think people tend to jump on bandwagons listening to the loudest voices first without doing their own due diligence. I made sure Katie had all her vaccines, and my pullets were all vaccinated. Even if it doesn't eliminate the disease but lessens the severity and protects their life it works for me. However I have them for my own consumption and am not selling/trading. Maybe it was more of a stance to protect their organic status for marketability rather than personal views?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

It's been a while and I would have to do a bit of digging but the vaccine for ILT is the only one I remember that could create carriers. With the outbreaks from the commercial houses here in the SE there was a lot of investigation on what to do to protect existing flocks. I decided it was not worth the risk to me to vaccinate my flock against it due to the carrier threat, even with the killed virus. 

I have never found anything that reported birds being carriers that were vaccinated for Mareks. 

Something to keep in mind, I raised birds for show. Their health and welfare were vital to my success or failure. So, I did a lot of investigating on the various vaccines to find what would not be a threat to my flock. Or more importantly to those I sold birds to.

I doubt birds that our ancestors raised ever reached the age that ours do today. Just like mentioned, there are diseases out there now that we are just beginning to understand and find treatments for or vaccines.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

8hensalaying said:


> Maybe it was more of a stance to protect their organic status for marketability rather than personal views?


That is exactly what it is.Organic chickens used for eggs or meat cannot be vaccinated or have been administered antibiotics.By law if the chickens gets sick it has to be treated.Then it would have to be moved to conventional production.


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