# Home From My Chicken Collecting Trip!



## Fiere

And the fuzzy butts are here in numbers... I am over run!

Unfortunately, I had some pretty poor hatch rates on some of my breeds, and so my order of near 80 went down by almost half, then there were losses from travel stress and what not... So I'm not wholly impressed but it is what it is.

I brought home a breeding hen quad of Barnevelder, which laid me two eggs by 7 this morning, so I'm impressed with them already. 
I also snagged a breeding trio of snowy call ducks that are playing in my bathtub right now until I can finish setting up their pen (never leave your non-poultry-loving partner home to finish poultry chores). 

For chicks, I have Barnevelder, Polish, Salmon Faverolle, Euskal Oiloa, Barred Plymouth Rock and Buff Orpington. 

Then I got a dozen Muscovy and a dozen Eastern Wild/Royal Palm turkey hatching eggs. 

So the trip wasn't a total loss. Hopefully. Picking up silkies this week and then there's another poultry order coming next month. Hopefully next year I can get some nice birds out of my breeding pens.


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## robin416

OK, I'm going back to bed. I got tired all over again just reading what all extra you brought home. 

When you get the nerve, have everyone settled you need to count heads on just the poultry you have residing on your place. I thought having 130 was a lot.


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## Fiere

I won't have 130 until next spring! I guess it's a blessing in disguise my numbers didn't increase like they should have. I ended up with only 30-40 chicks. They were NOT happy campers getting off the plane and were quite stressed, once I got to where I was staying and opened the invoice I realized that I was short big time on the order, then the weakest chicks started dropping like flies. I only lost a couple so far, but I can't say what the others in the order lost yet as they showed up hours too early to collect and the birds hadn't had time to settle before being whisked off. I let mine rest for 6 hours in a brooder before packing them up and setting off again, which I think made all the difference. There's still a few that are kind of lethargic and looking a little green around the gills but at least they are drinking and eating.

I think there's.... 50-60 chickens here now? Then the calls, and whatever else hatches out of the turkey and Muscovy eggs. Then a pair of silkie chicks, 10 production layers, another dozen silkie eggs, and hopefully some Barnevelder eggs coming in the next 3-4 weeks. I'm also going to have to find more buff polish as I only got 3 in the order. 

I didn't get my red-laced white Cornish at all. I was looking forward to them


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## Fiere

My ducks seem happy


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## LittleWings

Congrats on all of the new babies. You'll have your hands full for a while. 
Good luck with them.


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## robin416

Well, shoot. I was looking forward to you telling me that they are a great bird to have around. Yes, I still pine for more poultry. 

Fingers crossed the weak peeps pull through. Well, keep up this pace and in no time at all you'll be well over that 100 mark.


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## Fiere

I have other breeds that are great to have! The Euskal Oiloa are fast becoming a favourite. They are just as personable as silkies, right out of the egg.

Here's some of the troop enjoying a light breakfast.


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## robin416

I hadn't even heard of Euskal Oiloa, can't pronounce it either, until you all started talking about having them. 

I still remember the first time I saw a Call. I wanted ten of them right on the spot. Never mind that I was not set up for them. The smarter side of me won out.


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## Fiere

I'm not set up for the calls either, hence why they are still in my bathtub LOL. They have a nest box for nights, and then I put them in the tub for the day. I have a huge rabbit hutch that will fit them perfectly but I wanted to sanitize it before I put the ducks in it, just haven't gotten around to that yet as hubby didn't do it over the weekend. Anyway, they'll be house ducks for a few more days and then they will go out. It's helping them tame up a bit too which is great. 

The EOs are pronounced "Oooh-skahl Oy-lo-ah". They are the prettiest little hens, they look like buff Swedish flower hens and the roosters are just wonderful. When I went to pick up the chicks I was swarmed by the breeding flock and I had to crouch down and give both roos and all the hens a good scratch or I was not getting out of there. I don't care how personable chickens may be, they don't beg to be picked up by total strangers, these guys would go introduce themselves to a fox. The chicks are the same, usually with chicks they scatter at first, then get curious and come have a peek at you, and shriek a bit when you pick them up before calming down. The EO just saunter on over, hop into your hand, and look at you with love in their eyes. They are also a light weight breed that lay about 3-6 smallish medium eggs a week so they are just dandy for a barnyard if you can find them. Mine have parents imported from Greenfire farms, some from show breeders out west, and some more from the states. There is NO local source for these guys, and my chicks therefore have a huge genetic diversity. I have 9 of them, hopefully I get a good mix of hens so I can start a breeding flock. Happy happy!


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## robin416

I really like the idea that they are so trusting of humans, it would make things easier. But that also makes me wonder about predation. If they are that trusting at hatch how in tune are they when it comes to predators?


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## Fiere

Oh I dare say they would introduce themselves to a fox LOL. They are going into a breeding flock so they don't do much free ranging unless I'm out in the yard with them. My layers come and go as they please usually, as they are, while I hate to say it, more disposable. I value them of course and am always very upset when I lose any, but my breeding and show birds aren't easily replaced, whereas the layers are the ones aren't close enough to the standard to pass on their traits. But anyway, my little EOs will be put on silkie status as overly friendly dummies who aren't permitted to be out unsupervised LOL.

Sad news though, I lost five today, the heat lamp fell from it's hook somehow and five got caught underneath. I use solid lamp holders so the littles couldn't get out and anyway, they died. I feel terrible. I've been using the same setup for years and never had it fall, I have no clue what happened.


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## robin416

How sad. I was lucky that I never had an issue like that happen. I knew someone that had a heat lamp in her coop for her young birds. One morning she saw smoke pouring from it, the heat lamp had come loose and was setting the shavings on fire.

I can see them having to be up and protected. Silkies can free range, sort of. Well, I guess not really. The poof makes them an easy target since they can't see the predators coming.


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## Fiere

Yes, I guess that is the only good thing is that the shavings didn't go up in smoke. It couldn't of been down long, I fed them not an hour before. It won't happen again, i made sure of that, but of course now I'm paranoid. 5 chicks is a big loss all in one swoop. Of course 4 of them were sexed hens - sigh.

My Barnevelder hens are laying like crazy, very happy with them. They are a funny breed, one person hens for sure. The man I got them off of used to give them belly rubs and have me a list of their favourite treats. Clearly they bonded to him. Every time I go in their coop they scream like hawks and huddle in the corner until I leave. Today I bent down to get their eggs and the dominant hen came tearing across the coop and dove at my face claws first. I near backhanded her through the wall, crazy devil bird. They *hate* me. I'm hoping to win their hearts, maybe by hanging a photo of their breeder in the coop or something. 
Needless to say they won't be raising any babies of their own unless they tame up, because I am not having a whole crew of neurotic birds.


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## robin416

Well, I was going to suggest getting a short stool and just sitting there offering treats but with she devil I'm not so sure that would be a safe move. Maybe a football helmet and knee pads. No maybe not, they still won't know who you are. 

It is funny to find out that some are one people birds. I found out after the fact that d'Uccles are single person birds. Well, at least the males are. Funny as all get out to see that tiny little boy chasing grown men around the coop. He was like a little dog, I could call him back and put him up after my quit laughing enough that I could talk. 

I used carabiner type things to hook my lamps. They were hooked to the wire on the side of the pens. That way all I had to worry about was the bulb going out.


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## Fiere

The EO breeder had a little D'Uccle in his own pen, he had picked it up at a show. It's name was Attila The Hun and he would not let it out LOL. That bird had game! 

I don't mind the "one person" birds, so long as I am their person. Hopefully my girls are going to tame up, they are the foundation for my breeding program of them and I'd greatly prefer birds I can handle as opposed to devil spawned banshees. I told their breeder about their lovely attitudes and his tongue in cheek advice was to not fall down in the coop as I might not get out. Yep, they are the velociraptors from Jurassic Park without a doubt.


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## robin416

I'd like to say, give them time, they'll come around. You could try telling them jokes. LOL

If they are truly like the little D then its going to be a long road to travel getting them to adore you like they did their breeder.


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## Fiere

I don't think I will ever be adored. I've chosen to ignore their presence which has resulted in them not screaming at me when I enter the coop, so I'm going to say we have entered a truce of sorts. I'm going to move them in with the flock in another week, I have an old ISA hen who tolerates no malarkey from any creature great or small, so she might right their wagons. That and they have 3 boys in there who can ease any tension they might be feeling haha.


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## robin416

Just imagine the day you walk in and they have no issues with your presence. Even my laid back Silkies have issues with someone they don't know being within hearing distance. There are verbal complaints when they hear a foreign voice.


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## Fiere

These chicks are suicidal. First the lamp, now one managed to bury itself in the fermented feed and while it's very much alive right now, I think it breathed in quite a bit of moisture and it is not looking well. All my years of raising chicks I've never had this many drop on me. Maybe with a bad bunch I will lose one or two but not 6 going on 7. I am not impressed with this AT ALL.


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## Fiere

I was supposed to have 80 day olds and between all that's happened with hatches and travel stress and fluke deaths, I'm at 33. Sigh.


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## nj2wv

That's why I stopped counting my chicks until they are big enough to join the big birds in the coop. Even then you can't count them. Last week I added a new pullet to the coop that I hatched myself and then two days later an older hen wandered too close to the chained dog and was killed. Sometimes you try real hard to increase your flock and it just doesn't seem to work out. Try not to get too upset. It's all part of farming.


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## Fiere

I'm not upset per say. I've been raising livestock a long time, there's always going to be that group that decides to die off. This just happens to be my group this year, doesn't make me pleased as it was a huge expense to be the group that doesn't want to thrive!
Always the way!
There are more coming next month so hopefully everything will be more normal that hatch.


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## Fiere

New littles for me! Robin, the one I was telling you about is there in the middle. There's a buff-type, the "columbian" and the partridge.


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## robin416

I have fingers crossed on both hands that Marshmallow keeps that coloring when it molts in to its adult feathers. I can't wait to see what it looks like. 

I've never seen one like that that is mixed with a recessive white.


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## Fiere

She/He is pretty cute, I must say. It was the only one like that in the 20 or so that he had. All he keeps are buffs, white, blue/black/splash, so it came from those combinations!


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## Fiere

Upon closer inspection, which I didn't get a pic of, the down on it's back is stark white with two blatant grey chipmunk stripes. That doesn't occur in columbian types of other breeds, and I'm not an expert by any means on the matter but I've not seen/heard tell of a chipmunked silkie, at least not like that. With just two slashes down it's back. "Marshmallow" is curiouser and curiouser!


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## robin416

Partridge chicks are chipmunk striped until they molt out. I was looking for it on the one partridge you got. 

Now its a waiting game to find out what the color is going to be on this chick.


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## Fiere

There such thing as a white partridge? Lol


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## robin416

That would be an awesome color combo but not that I know of. 

I keep wondering if his old boy was dominate white. If he is then you would have a paint bird. They are out there but you can see that they're dom white because of odd coloration on their hackles most of the time.


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## Fiere

That's funny, the breeder loves paints and has spent a fortune bringing them in and had awful luck with them. If this one turns out painted I'm going to have to hide him LOL when a google "columbian silkie" I get lots of pics that look like possible outcomes for this little fuzzball, but none are the true columbian as I know it. With the black tail and hackle.


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## robin416

Silkie color genetics prevent them from having the markings of a Columbian. You will find that splash males very often look columbian but are not. 

Why in the world did he have issues with the paints? They are so much easier to breed then the lavenders. There are color challenges with them and the paint is so new still has a ways to go. But over all they were no different breeding successfully than any other variety.


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## Fiere

No it was with his stock. Just had a crap run of luck with the birds and lost the trio as I understood it. It would be mildly amusing for him to not be able to keep good paint stock then have an oops paint pop up lol. It's not a show quality bird though, from what I see. He's not as nice as the ones that were in the keeper pen anyways. So I doubt he'd be a breeder in this guys flock.


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## Fiere

Also a friend and I went splits on two dozen hatching eggs. We got 14 silkies, naked necked Easter Eggers and regular Easter Eggers, and she has them in her incubator. It's been like 4-5 days now and there's development in 8 silkie eggs, so i might be over run soon enough. 
Which is good, considering I've lost so many of the birds I had picked up that I feel quite empty now.


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## robin416

Fiere said:


> No it was with his stock. Just had a crap run of luck with the birds and lost the trio as I understood it. It would be mildly amusing for him to not be able to keep good paint stock then have an oops paint pop up lol. It's not a show quality bird though, from what I see. He's not as nice as the ones that were in the keeper pen anyways. So I doubt he'd be a breeder in this guys flock.


Even though it shouldn't happen it did to someone I know. All of a sudden she had paints popping up in her breeding program. The thinking is that she ended up with a new bird with the genetics in place to create paint.

White Silkies are recessive white, it takes two to make white. Add any other color and you get whatever.

But with a dom white? I should have hung in there long enough to see what happened breeding two dom whites together.


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## Fiere

Never say never 
How does one tell if the silkie is a dominant white? I honestly don't know enough about them to be honest. I know vaulted heads and middle toe feathers are good. The end. Lol


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## robin416

That vaulted head thing isn't really true. If nothing else its more of an issue because the poof more often than not ends up being tri-lobal. Not what you want. The more foot feathers, the better. Most of mine had feathers on all of their toes.

Off color in the white in the hackles was the biggest give away. And when I got out they were not even certain those birds were dom white, just that they came from a paint to a solid breeding.

See the coloration on this paint boy's head, neck, shoulders? Even if he didn't have the black of a paint on him you'd know he's from a paint breeding.








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## chickenmommy

He looks so grumpy lol. Like a yeti


Sent from my iPhone using Chicken Forum


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## LittleWings

chickenmommy said:


> He looks so grumpy lol. Like a yeti
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Chicken Forum


Lol He does look like he has an attitude.


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## Fiere

He looks like that Owl from the Secret of NIMH movie lol!


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## robin416

He does, Fiere, doesn't he? 

But this is where looks can be deceiving, he was a sweety. More scaredy cat than not.


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## Fiere

Some more "Toasted Marshmallow" pics for you, Robin! Don't mind the state of him, he was just finishing supper. I'm quite sure they roll in the feed then eat it off one another instead of taking it out of the bowl.


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## robin416

That peep needs to hurry and molt so we can see what its ultimately going to look like.

See the partridge stripes in the wing tips?

Heavy feathering on the feet. Appears the wings are tight even at that young age. You just might have a stunning bird over all once its all grown up.


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## Fiere

The feathering on the head and feet is a lot nicer when it's not crusty, I promise! I'm glad you feel he is going to be a looker. The breeder is fabulous, I don't doubt the quality of his birds, but I don't know enough about them to see what faults this little has or does not have. 

What does the partridge striping mean, exactly? Is that the dominant white you were talking about? Like a dominant white over a recessive white who has partridge in it's background maybe? I'm just taking stabs in the dark lol.


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## robin416

About the only thing you can tell about chicks that young is, are there five well placed toes, feathering on the toes, dark round eyes. Well developed beak. From there you have to wait until a bit more age is on the bird. Then you're looking for the blue ears about six/eight months old. Once its about eight/nine months old you can begin accessing body type. Even then they are not fully matured and it might be two years before you see full development. 

No, it means the daddy was a recessive white and buried color genetics are beginning to leak out. They may not even come close to what the mother looked like. And none of those color feathers you're seeing now might be there after its third, adult feather molt.


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## Fiere

Oh well, he is still interesting! Can't wait for my other mixed colour bag to hatch, they're due the 14th.
I brought home 7 buff laced polish chicks last night... and was offered game birds p, I don't know what kind of game birds... They were huge. I've only seen bantams, these looked like Easter Eggers but with bald heads like a vulture and they were savage. The breeder put his hood up on his jacket and pulled his sleeves over his hands before he walked in. I was like, yea. Thanks but no thanks, I think! I don't need that in my life. Beautiful birds though.

And then there's this funky fellow:


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## robin416

OMG, how adorable. You saved the best for last. The tufted birds can have some of the most adorable head ornaments when they're still chicks.


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## Fiere

He didn't have any tufts on his head as a chick, then he just grew his horns in the last few days. It's too funny looking.

Now the polish I just picked up are 2-3 days old and have obvious top hats, so I'm really eager to see how they feather out. They might be worth showing. I got one thrown in the batch as an extra because it has a bum leg. I don't know if I can fix it or not but for now it has it splinted and once I straighten that joint up I'm going to put a hobble on it to pull the leg in. I'm told it's due to a twisted femur? I've had no experience with it, if the little peep starts to go down hill I will have to cull him. It's not easy seeing it hobble around like it does but it eats and drinks fine and never rests so I'm keeping an eye on it. I don't mind having a gimpy chicken, I just don't want to see them suffering.


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## Fiere

Then of course there's the "sea of yellow fluff". The big chick was in there for a couple days because he got a bit picked on by my buff orp chicks and was feeling downtrodden. He's back in the more age appropriate playpen now.


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## robin416

I have a strong urge to run my hands through all of that yellow fluff. Not sure they would appreciate it.

It could be a slipped tendon. They're a pita to deal with. The tendon on the back of the leg slips out of its groove and causes them to hold the leg wrong. It can be manipulated back in to place but keeping it there can be an issue.


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## Fiere

They'd probably appreciate it highly. They love attention, Cornish X aren't overly flighty birds lol.

Here's the little peep before I splinted it. In the brooder when I got it, it did exhibit like a slipped tendon, but when I inspected it and asked around I heard twisted femur. Who knows what it is, I just hope it rights itself a bit.


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## robin416

From what I understand you can feel the tendon going along the side of the leg. I have never had to deal with it and this is one of those that first hand experience is very helpful. 

Twisted femur is not one I've heard of. If the femur is twisted then to me that sounds like the bone is not straight. Or that the socket it fits in to is malformed.


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## Fiere

Yes, when you feel his leg it is not straight, comes out at an odd angle then rotates, causing that whole leg to stick out. I don't know why the peep won't use the bottom half of the leg, but even with the hobble on it wanted to hold it up, so I don't know if anything can be done.


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## robin416

Doesn't sound good for it. Is this one of the crosses or a different breed?


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## Fiere

Its a buff laced Polish. A very, highly bred one. Of course.


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## robin416

If the bone is twisted, it wouldn't be one you want to use for breeding. Its possible that this is a genetic issue and could be passed down. I've seen it with feet. Feet are some of the easiest to fix but some things are genetic and should not be used.


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## Fiere

If it's a hen it will go into the laying flock, with the rest of the oddballs lol. The rest are perfect.


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## Fiere

Hard to believe these birds are the same age! The Cornish weigh about a lb now, they are exactly a week old.








And the red sex link babies, because they're too cute with their bright orange and yellow fluff.








As well, some of my 3 week old gang, enjoying the grow out pen during the day (they still have to come inside at night it is still so cold!)


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## Fiere

These are my march babies, there's another pullet running around somewhere.








And my 6 week old growouts for my barred rock roosters, I'm not seeing much promising in them though, they don't have the size/growth rate I'm looking for. They have another ten weeks though.








Now, just some turkey poults, my naked necks, my silkies and whatever comes out of he incubator this month and I am DONE this year for chicks. Done.


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## robin416

Uh huh, done. 

You can see the bubble head on the first peep. 

Without even reading the caption on the second pic I knew that was a meat baby. Talk about hefty, even the legs already look like they have heft to them.

You have got one heck of nice set up. I can't imagine the work necessary to keep it all running smoothly. 

You could have told me anything you wanted on the barred rocks and I would have believed you. I was so single minded on the Silkies I could tell you what is a good any other breed from a really poor one.


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## Fiere

It's not really that nice, lol! It was kind of thrown together last year to get everyone in a house and added to here and there. Can't wait to get the bigger coop built so everyone can be together in one spot. Right now I have the 8x8 coop with the 8x16 run attached, and the birds free range during the day as I'm home. The grow out pen is 8x8 with an 8x8 run on the front, and by run I mean 3' fence with a gate. The meat birds are usually my last birds to get in the year so they get that and can have outside access, I also free range them when I'm home. They can't fly so the fence works great for them. I'm putting a pig in there in July however so I have a 8x13' dog kennel to set up for them. I also have a 4x8 pen in the barn I use for QT that I can grow out birds in as I don't plan on taking on any adult birds this year.

It's just too much. I hate having birds here and there and everywhere. I just want the one coop with breeding/grow out pens at the back, and the meat birds in the dog kennel. Much, much easier. 

The new coop is going to be 12x14' with three 4x4' pens at the back, which I am going to make two level so I have 6 breeding/grow out pens. I'm also going to divide a little section in the front about 3' wide so I can collect eggs and store feed in the coop, without it actually being in the coop. I'll dismantle the current run and rebuild/add to it and have a 12x24' run. The plan is to put a roof on it and in the winter staple up vapour barrier plastic so no snow, wind or rain gets in and the birds can use it. The netting I had collapsed last year and the snow was drifting in over 4' into the run - hateful! No more of that.


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## Fiere

The barred rocks are just not screaming quality at me, that's all. They are from a local backyard sort of breeder and were given to me by a friend. I figured I'd grow them out and see if any are worth improving upon, it they're growth rates are really slow, which tells me hey won't have much size behind them. I'm really sick of seeing all these orpingtons, rocks, australorps, etc that weigh 6 pound full grown and look no different than a red sex link in body type. They're just more colourful. They are supposed to be big, dual purpose breeds. These ones wouldn't make a pot of soup. Decent layers I suppose, but aside from the fact hey have stripes and a single comb, there's nothing about them that says Barred Plymouth Rock. It's a bad problem really.


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## Fiere

This is the barred rock hen I bought last year from the same sort of backyard flock breeder. Chara, my orp cockerel, is big, but he's not that tall - under two feet tall I'd say from toe to comb. He was hatched September 19th, and isn't fully filled out, but you can see the growth rate on him is phenomenal and he's achieved great things in a few months. She is 12 months old and a midget.








This is her in a milk crate which I'm sure you understand the size comparison.








These are the birds we're dealing with. Very undersized and wholly removed from their "types". She should be 1/3 larger than she is and have a hard time getting into that crate to lay an egg. But she is the norm. If those boys can't improve size and type in my flock they will go into the freezer.


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## robin416

The one thing to trust is your eye. That is the most dependable thing in assessing what you're seeing. I've always told people if they like what they see then chances are its right.

Its not easy finding the right birds even when you have easy access to breeders. Most won't turn loose of those really good birds or they want a fortune for them.


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## Fiere

I should reticle this thread "the random goings on of Fiere"

All my eggs in the incubator are dead. They either didn't develop at all, or started to and just went... Dead. I don't even know what you'd call it. I got a new light to candle with and if there was anything in these eggs, I would've seen it. It's bright.

Here's a chicken egg that was due to hatch this Friday that I cracked open.








And here's a Muscovy egg that's due in a week and a half or something.







I did break the yolk accidentally on that one, but you can see the weird white webbing growing all over the yolk.

Everything that had what I was calling development looks like the chicken egg. Just a swirly mass of nasty. There's one egg that actually does have an embryo in it but the embryo is still tadpole sized and has no blood vessels or anything on it. It's just that swirly mass of nasty lol.

What causes this? I want to fix this problem with my incubator as I can only assume that's what happened. It's a still air, temp fluctuates because the weather here is so bonkers, but it's steady between 99.5-102* and has never gone over or under. For a still air I'm aiming for 101* so I'm not that far off the mark. I turn 3x a day. Humidity was between 45-55%.


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## robin416

I'm going to suggest that the eggs with no embryo are infertile. That is the only explanation for that.

The one with the embryo could be a little more problematic but still may not have a thing to do with your set up. If that egg was left in the nest and other hens were using it, its possible from the body warmth for the egg to begin to develop. That constant change in warm, cold could kill the embryo before you ever set it. But that's just a guess.


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## Fiere

It seems they either look fresh from the butt (picture two, I didn't mean to break the yolk) or swirly mess of nasty (picture one). I wonder if the travelling I did and the being in the car for hours had anything to do with the turkey and Muscovy eggs... But the chicken egg is from my farm, laid the day before I put it in the incubator. It should have either been fertile or not, the fact it's exhibiting sings of a very early death the same as the others, makes me question my set up.

I set 9 call duck eggs today, they have been laying 1-2 a day since the fourth so I gave them a week to set on them and then took them when they didn't set, but I know for a fact none are older than a week. I'm going to set some chicken eggs next Wednesday and see what happens. 

I made sure to rinse the duck eggs under plain warm water to remove any dirt and I checked them thoroughly before putting them in the incubator, air cells are perfect, yolks are intact, no hairline cracks. The ducks have been going at it like rabbits for weeks now and are a proven trio, so I doubt fertility is an issue,p. If these eggs are fertile, there should be no reason why they don't develop, unless it's my incubator.


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## robin416

I'm sticking with infertile on those two. Unless you put them in your trunk then went off roading the eggs should not have suffered any damage on the trip back home. That has nothing to do with your setup. Even if temps were running too cool or too high you would see some sort of development. Of course way too hot and you would find eggs beginning to cook.

The early dead? That can be from so many things. A problem with the embryo itself is more than likely the cause. The only way to whittle it down is doing just what you're doing, setting more. If you have really early deaths again then something is going on in the breeding flock. Could be any number of things if it is. If you see a bunch of infertiles then your guy isn't getting the job done for some reason.

I had a Silkie roo that was infertile. So, it does happen. But if your male is young he may just not be getting it right yet.


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## Fiere

The tom was proven, I've seen his get and all those eggs with the exception of two were early death. The Muscovy was supposed to be proven but most of those, eggs are "fresh from the butt" however the breeder lets them hatch it eggs left right and centre, so who knows. I bought my calls as a proven breeding trio, and I better have a breeding trio, that's all I can say, the drake and smaller hen are 2 and the larger hen is a yearling.
My roosters are all proven with babies on the ground. The egg could've come from one of my Barnevelder girls as I have no idea who lays what around here. They wouldn't of been fertile as they weren't with a roo. 

It's all very strange. Hopefully I will have answers with this group of eggs.


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## nj2wv

I saw that you rinsed the eggs. I heard that you are not supposed to rinse eggs going in the incubator. Just pick the cleanest eggs. My dirtier ones hatch. Experiment with your own eggs. Wash one and don't wash one and see if that is the problem.


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## robin416

My only suggestion is to isolate particular groups. That way you can identify if there is a problem. You can also use food coloring in the vents to determine which hen laid which egg. If there is a no develop, development but early dead it can help you identify who it is.

And this might all be a timing thing.


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## Fiere

nj2wv said:


> I saw that you rinsed the eggs. I heard that you are not supposed to rinse eggs going in the incubator. Just pick the cleanest eggs. My dirtier ones hatch. Experiment with your own eggs. Wash one and don't wash one and see if that is the problem.


The reason I gave these a rinse was because since they were in with the ducks in a nest they were wet and grimy with poop and hay. They ones I had in the incubator had dried poop and egg yolk on them, I didn't wash them, and they were all early death (which could be bacteria related apparently). I read rinsing is ok, it's scrubbing the membrane off that isn't, so that's what I did. Quick swish and I wiped the poop off with my hand then swished again, and then let air dry. All of ten seconds spent.


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## Fiere

It's just odd I had three groups of eggs from three types of birds, all proven, and they all went dead lol. I'm just hoping it's not the incubator causing something, there were no heat spikes in the first two weeks that could've killed them... I dunno. That's what I'm doing now though Robin, I'm isolating. I know how my bator works, I'm just going to keep a much better eye on it and see what occurs week one with the ducks in there now. The better candling light is helping.


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## robin416

Fiere said:


> The reason I gave these a rinse was because since they were in with the ducks in a nest they were wet and grimy with poop and hay. They ones I had in the incubator had dried poop and egg yolk on them, I didn't wash them, and they were all early death (which could be bacteria related apparently). I read rinsing is ok, it's scrubbing the membrane off that isn't, so that's what I did. Quick swish and I wiped the poop off with my hand then swished again, and then let air dry. All of ten seconds spent.


This is to back up Fiere, it is perfectly safe to rinse eggs with warm water. Its scrubbing or rough rubbing that removes the protective outer covering.

I've been known to dunk mine in a warm bleach water mix if I have concerns without it compromising hatchability. Often just wrapping in a paper towel will remove any outside dirt after the rinse.


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## robin416

Fiere said:


> It's just odd I had three groups of eggs from three types of birds, all proven, and they all went dead lol. I'm just hoping it's not the incubator causing something, there were no heat spikes in the first two weeks that could've killed them... I dunno. That's what I'm doing now though Robin, I'm isolating. I know how my bator works, I'm just going to keep a much better eye on it and see what occurs week one with the ducks in there now. The better candling light is helping.


I will be keeping watch. There is an explanation for what is going on. It just needs to be figured out. It might even be a conglomeration of things going on, sort of like what is going on with my poor dog.


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## Fiere

I watched a video on that Allen smith guy or whatever his name is, he soaks the eggs in a disinfectant for like 30 seconds or a minute or something. I was shocked!


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## robin416

Is he setting them to hatch or are they for sale to eat?

Thought I'd toss in, its P allen smith. And my husband can't stand him because of that. What can I say? Sometimes the hubs makes no sense. He thinks it pretentious. Although I've pointed out more than once his oldest son is called my his middle name since his first is the same as his father's. Men.


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## Fiere

robin416 said:


> I will be keeping watch. There is an explanation for what is going on. It just needs to be figured out. It might even be a conglomeration of things going on, sort of like what is going on with my poor dog.


The incubator is the only thing in common LOL. I can't throw that out so it's process of elimination and closely monitoring the temps now. Hatching in this climate on this time of year is shady, it's cold and wet or hot and dry, usually within the same day. Plays havoc on the eggs.


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## Fiere

He was setting the to hatch.


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## robin416

Backs up what I would do with mine. He probably used a commercial disinfectant that's for sale for cleaning eggs. Bleach is cheaper and works just as well. 

You've seen me say it many times, are you absolutely certain about your thermo? But those eggs with no development were infertile, no matter what your temp is that won't change things. The very early dead may have been just one of those things, that happens to all of us. 

Its early Spring for you, it may be possible that the birds were not getting their thing on long enough before setting those first eggs.


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## Fiere

I broke every single egg open tonight, there was two turkey eggs with obvious chicks in them, just big enough to have eyes and limb nubs. The rest were meat spots and thick nasty grossness. Can't say I didn't gag once or thrice. There did look to be some "cooked" bits which is mind boggling, but whatever, it's done now. It also puts the date of death as two weeks in, so something must of occurred. There was a temp spike because of me frigging with the light but I didn't think it went over 103*.

I have two thermos in there, one at the back, opposite the light, above the eggs and one at the front, at the "floor level" of the eggs, and both are usually less than a degree in the difference. They are both analog, so they are not exactly exact, but they do not give me a cause for concern.


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## Fiere

That's too funny about your husband thinking P Allen is pretentious lol! Who knows, maybe his first name is something dreadful. 

Though I must say I'd be pretty pretentious as well if I ran his set up!


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## Fiere

So, even though my chicks aren't due till Saturday, I now have 5 lol. Pics!


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## robin416

Wow, that is early. 

Five out, how many more to go? 

Since I've lost track again, which ones are these?


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## Fiere

These are silkie and naked neck, but that last one looks to be an EE. Naked necks lay coloured eggs (at least the ones from this breeder do) so it's understandable that she'd accidentally give me one. I'm not fussy!

I had a silkie pipped and unzipping itself on the 18th! Didn't actually get out until the 19th though lol. But yes, early early.


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## Fiere

There's 3 more NN unzipping, and 3 more silkies out. Everyone else is pipped and trying. This is the combined hatch I did with a friend, she's got like 20 eggs in there for herself, chanteclers.


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## Fiere

An update for you Robin! Any idea what dear Marshmallow is? His little girl is inquiring, though she thinks it's a he.


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## robin416

I think his little girl is right. 

One way to find out if you have a true black female, breed them together. If you get white chicks with black patches you've got a paint. If all you get is black or a bunch of wild colors then its not any color recognized by the ASBC.


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## Fiere

Hahah now to find a true black hen. That should be a snap....


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## robin416

Its a royal pita trying to find true blacks even here in the states. People mixed blue with black and really screwed up the color genetics.

You could try a white hen. That one is a little trickier since we don't know his color genetics. If he is dom white you should get black, white or paint. The blacks very often ended up with quite a bit of gold or silver on their hackles and bodies.


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## Fiere

More than likely I will call him a paint and love him just as he is. LOL 

When he is clean he is just sweet, tons of feathers everywhere. It's been really hot here the last few days so I have been hosing the ground down to make mud in the run, everyone is brown from the belly down.


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## robin416

I like your approach to the mud. Too often too many worry about the dirty chickens while they roast in the heat. I mean, what the heck? What makes more sense a clean dead bird or a dirty live one? And mud actually will make them more shiny once it falls off. Of course that doesn't mean they won't stain with red mud but I'll take live and a happy muddy bird any day.

You have got to try him with a white hen. You've got me really curious about him now. That off color in the hackles looks so much like what we see with dom whites.


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## Fiere

I don't mind the birds being muddy (though the fact Marshmallow doesn't have cute fluffy feet at the moment is unfortunate), but it's when they track it into the coop that drives me wild lol. My poop boards and nest boxes need to be pressure washed.

What do you mean by off colour? The creamy colour on the white?


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## robin416

Yes, on the cream color. That might or might not mean he is dom white. Talk about being able to have fun with that. 

With my setup I didn't have to worry about the mud being tracked in. And you're right, its not kind to foot feathers. I had one girl that would head straight for a mud puddle. Talk about a mess when she got done rolling around in it. But good grief, the next morning her white feathers were sparkling white. Actually, it was the girl in my avatar.


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## Fiere

My mud is high % of clay, so it takes quite a while to come off! and leaves stains in the meantime. He needs to get used to having baths with those big floofy feet of his .

It doesn't pick up well in photos nor does it seem visible when he is a uniform shade of dirt, but he has a lot of that cream colour coming in on the hackle and saddle. The grey is almost gone out of his wings now too, it's fading and moulting out. Then he has the little "pepper flakes" coming in on his head, but other than that the grey is really coming out of him. I think he may have very little other than white by the end of the year.

I'm trying to remember how old he is... I picked him up May 24ish and he was 3-4 weeks then I think. So 10-11 weeks. Oh wow he is tiny. He is the same size as my 7 week olds.


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## robin416

Silkies are slow to grow compared to many other breeds and if your 7 week olds are large fowl I'm not surprised he's smaller. And then the thought blasts through my head, is she talking about the meat birds? Now those are some seriously hefty peeps.


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## Fiere

Oh no, my meat birds are... 4 weeks now? And about 2 pounds for the lager ones. They're off to a slow start this year, they were over 3 lbs last year at this age. Once they hit 2 weeks they gain a lb a week


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## robin416

That is so hard to wrap my head around. I'm so used to raising bantams and comparing their growth to yours is night and day.


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## Fiere

Cornish broilers are designed to grow at an alarming weight, it is the worst it's first 8 weeks, where the feed conversion is about 2:1 (pound of feed to pound of growth) and it slows gradually from then on, once they hit 16 weeks they actually start to lose weight, and turn into normal chickens lol. 
See the rather wide chicken in the top left there with one foot up? That's a 6 month old Cornish broiler. She was about 7lbs in that picture. When I butchered her hatch mates at 13 weeks they were between 10-13lbs, she and her sisters that I retained slimmed right down, lost their insane appetites and would've been bred in the spring had the roof not of came down on them.


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## Fiere

There's this years babies at 5 weeks








And some of the meat birds at 2.5 weeks


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## robin416

Everything I've ever read by people who raised them said they wouldn't live past X amount of time because of their weight. That they would have heart and leg issues. This is something completely different from what they said. Is this another thing they always thought would happen and wouldn't?

Are you going to do the same thing this year, hold a couple back for breeding? That's another thing that will have me all curious about.


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## Fiere

If their movement is kept restricted, and they are fed free choice, they may not make it to see 16 weeks. As their weight and fat gain is too much. Just like a morbidly obese human, they can't walk more than a few steps, can't breathe properly, and they will die. This is why so e people think they are dirty nasty creatures as well, as they lay down all day in their own crap and can't properly preen. It's not their choice, they just can't physically do more than that.

I don't believe in raising birds in such a way. Mine are fed meals to slow their growth and then are free ranged to keep them healthy. They don't live long and prosperous lives, that's for sure, as the weight gain is simply too hard on their organs in the long run and it's hard to keep them alive past two, they are prone to just dropping. But they do live of raised to do so, and they do lay a few eggs. The males are way too big and awkward to really breed successfully but they, in theory, can as well.

I just find it easier to keep a few hens (size comes from the female line anyway) and I will cross them with my biggest most productive roosters and get a more heritage type of bird with the breast size of the broiler. The feed conversion and growth rates takes years of dedicated breeding, so I lose out on that end, but I'm not looking to recreate the wheel. Just a few birds with the flavour of the heritage but the breast style of the broiler.

I'm doing the same thing with my meat turkeys this year, I'm going to keep a hen or two and breed them back to my Eastern Wild tom, so they will get that rustic dark style and flavour in the meat but inherit the larger breast.


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## robin416

All of that makes sense. The trick, it appears, is to keep them alive long enough to do that out crossing. 

You hit on all the reasons why I couldn't step in to the meat bird arena. We'll ignore the part where I can't eat what I raise when it comes to the animals.


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## Fiere

Yep, and it's not really a trick, it's just not pounding the feed to them and letting them have some exercise. Once you get them to that 16 week point they're golden. I had three hens last year I kept until the coop collapse.

I like raising my own meat, I know where it comes from, I know the animals were treated well and had a great life, and I assure a stress free and humane death. It's never easy, but the way I see it, if it becomes easy for me to kill my animals I need to stop doing it. They deserve more respect than a monotonous uncaring death.


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## robin416

Maybe if I had had the opportunity to stay in the country growing up, I would be able to do it. But again, maybe not. I could probably buy from a place like yours knowing what I know. But raising them from start to finish?


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## Fiere

It's not easy for sure. They are no different than other chickens, and to an extent can be more personable. The more you have the less they bond as a whole, obviously, but they all come running when I call and some beg to be picked up or scratched. The pigs are hard, they get sooooooooooo friendly. I treat them no differently than any other animal here, the pigs have names, they all get scritches, treats, and quality time, but from day one i tell myself "this is food, don't get attached, this is food" and distance myself emotionally. I still shed my fair share of tears on killing day. I have to pull up my big girl farmer knickers every so often and keep a methodical pace to ensure it gets done and I don't end up with 70 more pets, because I would!

Each one gets a good scratch and a snuggle before I load me into the cone as I want them to be relaxed as possible, then I cut them, and hold their heads up so 1. the blood drains and they pass out as soon as possible, and 2. so I can rub their combs and faces and tell them what good kids they are and how pretty they are. I keep everything calm and relaxed, it's rather ironic but you can see the difference when the bird feels safe, they're confused but there's no stress. I butchered 30 for a friend last year - they were just kept in a barn and never touched, I felt like two cents. They were terrified of humans and thus the whole act of being handled and put into a cone was the absolute most traumatic thing... I hated it, I won't ever do it again. They still had a very quick humane death, but their last moments weren't happy ones that's for sure.


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## Fiere

Marshmallow update, Robin. I think he's very much a paint.















A few of the other babies in the grow out pen:


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## robin416

He sure looks like it. That discoloration on his head is so common in the dom white Silkies. And the black? Yep. 

Isn't the guy you got him from a show breeder? How can he not know he has a dom white Silkie or possibly a couple of darks with paint backgrounds? 

Does Marshmallow have any pink skin or a strange yellow eye? 

I also thought you said you were done for the year and yet look at the sweet Silkie additions. That one looks like a lavender but I see read in its wing, what color is it supposed to be?

And the meat birds, good heavens have they gotten huge!


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## Fiere

I dunno! He said "columbian", and Marshmallow was very partridge like as a baby... The breeder has buffs and B/B/S, though he said he tried hard to get paints. I think I swiped something he didn't realize he had 
He has no pink bits on his skin that I have noticed. Both his eyes are coal black as well. He's a sharp looking little fellow.

The little one I think you are referring to was the result of a mixed colour flock. Lots of folks do that here, they have a few exceptionally coloured ones they keep together and the ones hat are nice birds but not exceptional colour wise they throw into a mix as there is always a market for pet silkies with interesting patterns. I believe (from the very little I know of silkies) that particular peep is a blue partridge. Here is a wing view:








The 10 birds I picked up this weekend were from hatching eggs I went splits on with a friend, she incubated them and I drove down to pick them up finally. They're 4.5 weeks now. The 4 muskovy ducklings I dragged home and the new buff Orpington cockerel I didn't plan on though... Oops!

The 16 EE mix eggs I have in the incubator are due to hatch Monday evening, then august 11 there's 30 more meat birds coming. Also, I have 12 more eggs coming in august which are a mix of silkies and naked necks from the same breeder as this batch of silkie and NN. She is bringing me up two Barred Rock cockerels as well as the ones in the grow out pen that I had I wasn't fussy on for breeders. I also am trying to get a buff orp roo from the same lines as my big fellow was from for use next year, the little cockerel is nice but he's from local lines which are drastically lacking in size.

Then I promise I'm done. Too close to winter to be getting anything else. Hubby finally conceded to mapping out the spot for the new big coop and actually figuring out what we need for lumber (I've only been bugging him to help get his project on the go since spring) as it needs to be finished before fall. There's too many birds to overwinter right now in the setup I have, and I am not having a repeat of last year!


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## robin416

I remember him calling Marshmallow a columbian. I don't remember anyone ever getting that color combination just by mixing colors. If I understand the genetics correctly, it is not possible to get a black and white Silkie unless one of the parents is a dominant white. That's how they achieved paints, using a dominate white bird from another breed with a white Silkie. 

Yep, that's the one I was referring to. It might have to do one more molt but I don't see the barring that would make it partridge. 

I forgot about those. Because you seem to be out gathering all the chickens in the province you can find.  When these peeps are old enough to reproduce you are going to be over run and you'll stand back and wonder how it happened.

I have no doubt the new building is going to be excellent. From what I've seen I really liked what you have now. Made me sort of jealous that you had so much space.


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## Fiere

I don't know what the little blue one is then, I just saw the smutting on the wings and assumed it was partridge, as it looks like my other partridge ones only different colours. The breeder didn't sell it to me as anything as it's was simply a hatching egg. This is what I love - and also what I hate - about mixed colour flocks. You never quite know what you'll end up with. They're pretty anyway, the only one I'm not too keen on is the orange and brown one, I have so many EE in that colour pattern and it's just not my favourite. But anyway, it's different and I will be able to tell them all apart at a glance with the exception of the whites. I hope most are hens, my daughter is very attached to her birds and I don't want to part with any. Marshmallow might need to learn to share his flock! I have 4 hatching eggs coming August 3rd from the same breeders B/B/S pen. 

I will never be overrun, I have a wait list for chicks in the spring already as I am one of the ones who has these breeds/quality locally. My daughter joins 4h this year and my aunt is a club leader so we will be very active in that community as well, where people don't have to travel several hours and spend a couple hundred on 4h birds, as not all of us can do that. I'm providing a service, really, by hoarding my chickens LOL.

I figure by working really diligently with a couple breeds to achieve my own version of the SoP, and then offering other breeds at quality not found here by bringing in the nicest lines found within the eastern provinces, and then a few oddities that can't be shown but are very nice birds for a backyard flock (the NN and EE collaborations), not only will I have a lovely flock that I am extremely proud of but can help others have the same. That's the plan anyway. 

The new spot won't be anything fancy but it will serve my purposes. I have a lot of space right now all things considered, but I *hate* not having everyone all in the same spot. Nothing worse than having to make 5 trips to 5 different spots to do the same chores every morning! No one area is big enough to hold all my fowl, either, I will not go through another winter like the one we had with the set up I have now. Everyone needs to be under one roof, with all their supplies stored with them. 
For now, the plan is a 12x16 building with the front being a "entryway" of sorts, so I can store feed, bedding, and supplies where it won't be touched by birds. The back part with be divided into four 4x4 pens, with dividers in them so they are two levels (so really eight 4x4 pens) - I can use them as bachelor pads in the winter, breeding pens in spring and conditioning pens in the summer. 
It NEEDS to be started soon. We have the gravel in right now and half spread trying to even out the land where it's going to go. I've got a tonne of reclaimed wood sitting here, so we will get it at least half finished before we have to buy anything, it's just getting the time to do it!


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## robin416

Partridge was never one of my favorites. The blue improved my opinion of it but the gold/black combo? Not so much. I did have one that was more yellow than gold, she was amazing looking.

That's great that you have so many wanting birds. That can be the hardest part with this whole chicken keeping thing, trying to rehome the excess. 

NN's can be shown. That's the first time I saw them myself, at a show. Where they're placed in the show is kind of complicated. Like the Showgirl Silkies are in with Silkies so have little chance of ever winning.

Should I say it? You'll probably still be using your other buildings. From the numbers I've seen, how much your numbers will increase that new building is going to be full in no time. My big coop was 10 by 24. When I got above 65 Silkies it was crammed. I guess timing is part of it too, like when you process the birds for the freezer.


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## Fiere

You cannot beat a nice partridge bird, the hard feathered partridges with the double and triple lacing on the feathers is breathtaking, even though I might not like the colour combination. Silkies, where they are not hard feathered, don't get the same idea and just sort of look 'messy' to me, I suppose you could say. It's the same with the EE, they aren't really laced, just a partridge type of colour. They have that real rusty orange on the black-brown and it really is not one of my favourites. I don't know what it is about orange and brown together! I don't like red birds, either, I love my ISA hens for the laying but that colour is just so drab looking to me. 

I thought a true Turken could be shown, but since NN are not truly a breed, it's just a dominant trait, they kind of fall short. It's like an Ameraucana vs an EE. My NN lay green eggs, for example, a Turken is supposed to lay brown, and they've been bred with various roosters to get nifty plumage colours. Though for 4h they might be acceptable, I saw someone showing EE as Ameraucana last year, and they placed them if I recall. Our local fair is so tiny that something new and different would likely be a major showcase even though it's not truly a breed. NN are certainly different. Might need a 18+ age limit on the cage.

I have little doubt I will be using the other buildings LOL. I hope to solely use them for the meat birds, though. I get two batches, one in June and they're processed in august and then I get another batch in august that are processed in October. By the time the new chicks come, the old ones will be free ranging and no longer in the grow out barn. During the winter I may use that barn for the ducks, or hubby can throw his crap in there. I plan on not over wintering more than 60ish birds. It's just too expensive, and it forces me to cull hard in the fall and only keep the best for my flocks. It works, though, heritage PoL hens fetch a decent price which helps cover feed going into the winter.


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## robin416

I've never paid a whole lot of attention to the EE's. But what you said makes sense regarding the partridge color. I'm like you, I'm not crazy about the color. Make it white and black and I'm all over it. You can confirm a Silkie is partridge by getting it wet and looking for the barring, it does exist you just can't see it well when they're dry. I could actually see barring in some of my white Silkie males. I think those were the ones carrying a double silver gene. 

I also turned my white silkies bright yellow one winter. It was nasty cold so I added corn oil to their feed. I knew corn could turn them yellow but never considered the oil might. They were awesome looking. All lemony yellow. 

You're right. I guess when I see someone using the term, NN, I automatically think Turken. Its another breed I wasn't particularly fond of so didn't delve too much in to them. 

Fair shows and ABA/APA sanctioned shows are two completely different events. Fair shows are about what the person raising knows to raise healthy birds. ABA/APA is all about how closely the bird matches the Standard of Perfection. 

I wish you luck on being able to follow through on your plans. I've been doing this for years and have never met a person who had enough room. Even those using barns whine about not having enough space. They were always having to juggle pens and bird placement to find enough room.


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## Fiere

I'm delusional. I will have enough room! I will, I will!

My daughter wants me to give the white silkie chicks a bath with a touch of food colouring so she can tell them apart. Purple and pink, apparently. I'm not wholly opposed to the idea, poor birds. Also I had no idea corn would turn the birds yellow! That's pretty neat.


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## robin416

Not delusional, hopeful. When you get in to the breeding thing is when you'll realize that maybe you need a little more space. 

You could always spritz them with some colored water. Or mark them with a marker. Once they reach adult size you will be able to spot each individual pretty easily. There is always some difference that's easy to spot. They're going to molt out those chick feathers pretty quickly and you'll lose your color coding. Many use zip ties when they're big enough. 

Corn discoloration from corn isn't as pretty as using corn oil. Too much corn and its more their hackles that turn a burnt yellow color. Corn oil, the whole danged bird turns yellow.


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## Fiere

So, I might have just bought to bantam Cochin frizzle hens. LOL


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## robin416

By accident, maybe? 

What color are these accidental birds?

BTW, do you realize we've kept this topic going to 12 pages?


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## Fiere

They are apparently white. They're only 6-8 weeks old so they've yet to grow into their plumage fully, but how could I pass them up? Now I can have sizzles. Uh oh.


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## Fiere

LOL 12 pages! That's kind of like my chickens... Start out with a few and before I know it...


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## robin416

Next question, since I don't remember, do you have other Cochins to breed them to?

I was thinking, for pete's sake, the new building isn't even started and she's already out of room.


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## Fiere

No, I don't have any Cochins. I love them but couldn't find quality ones within the eastern provinces. These come from a woman who has nice sock, but she's know for her lavender orpingtons, Ameraucana, and maran. I had no clue she had Cochins. I just seen frizzle and I don't care if they have half a wing and a pair of eyes between them lol! I have just always wanted frizzles, I think they're adorable.


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## robin416

So, its just the frizzle gene you wanted and are not going to breed them?


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## Fiere

I can't say I won't hatch a few eggs from them to get more frizzles for myself, but I just like eh look of frizzles, and they were 10$ for the pair. So really, how could I not!


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## robin416

LOL By the time you're done, you'll have two of everything.

You know that you breed a frizzle to a non frizzle, right? That's about the end of my knowledge on them. I love the look but the breeding can be a pain in the behind. My friend was raising them for a while but the genetic issues got to be more than she wanted to deal with after a while.


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## Fiere

If you breed a frizzle to a frizzle you can get a frazzle which all the feathers break off and it becomes a pretty poor looking creature. I only have these two hens as frizzles (unless my new naked neck eggs which have a frizzle gene come out hehehe) so I am thinking I will cross them with my buff polish bantam if it's a roo (which I think it is), and get some other cute feathered legged, crested, frizzly mutts. Or cross them under marshmallow for some sizzles. I'm not really concerned. These will be cute pets for me!


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## Fiere

Here are some better pics of the girls:


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## Fiere

Now I'm done. I'm not getting anything else after these. My hatching eggs and meat birds are it for the season. I'm officially over my limit LOL


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## nj2wv

Until you say. " I have this many so a few more wouldn't hurt ". Lol.


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## Fiere

Next year 
Once I lose count, enough is enough.

To be fair, once I thin out the rooster heard I will have A LOT more room!


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## robin416

Which will give you and excuse to get a couple more you don't have.

I like the idea of them going in with Marshmallow. If Marsh is a paint, this could get interesting for color combinations. 

Yes, that about breeding frizzle to frizzle. I didn't have the room for them so stayed away. If I didn't know enough about breeding them then its was useless for me to get them.


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## Fiere

I'm not over wintering more than 60. Nope nope nope. 

Now I have to count...


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## robin416

I read this just before crashing for the night, forgot to answer it.

Counting won't do you a bit of good. Chickens will be chickens, your little Cochin girls could well be laying by late Fall early Winter. They could very well decide they want peeps. 

And then you're going to dig deep to say no more when someone calls and says they have this and this and this.


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