# Cornish Cross NOT growing



## Kamie (Oct 29, 2014)

Hi all,

I'm new here, my old site Poultyone.com forum crashed early this year. My husband and I started raising chickens about 6 year ago. We raise layers and meat birds.

We have been raising Cornish X chicks for meat bird for about 4 years. We normally process twice a year, and have always bought the chicks local from http://www.esteshatchery.com/

Never had one single problem butchering them at 8 to nine weeks. This year something is just wrong!!!! We haven't changed the food, we haven't added more chicks in the brooder house than normal. Nothing has changed.

Today is the start of week 8. Out of the 50 CX we have been raising, 5 are still almost as small as 3 week old chicks, only completely feathered out. There might be 5 of the bigger ones around 6 pounds. Every other time we have done this the Cornish at this age where normally ALL, 6 to 8 pounds. So that leaves me 40 that are around 3 to 4 pounds. Not the best situation to be in as deer season is approaching.

I'd really appreciate any advice on what is going on. We have started upping the protein, and feeding alfalfa this week. Is there a possibility the hatchery messed up, and I don't have true CX? It's just really weird and has never happened before.

Thank for any replies,

Kamie


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Any chance of posting a pic? That was my first thought, are they crosses at all? But with your experience I would think you could spot that they weren't crosses right away.

We have someone here, Fiere, who raises quite a few meat birds. She might be able to give you some tips.


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## Kamie (Oct 29, 2014)

robin416 said:


> Any chance of posting a pic? That was my first thought, are they crosses at all? But with your experience I would think you could spot that they weren't crosses right away.
> 
> We have someone here, Fiere, who raises quite a few meat birds. She might be able to give you some tips.


We just put them up for the night, I'll take some photos tomorrow. Should have thought about doing it earlier.

Thanks,
Kamie


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Did anything happen to them when they were younger that made them go off their feed? Illness, stress, just not enough feed, etc? What/how were you feeding them and how were you keeping them up until this point? 

Dwarfism is a fairly common (albeit rare) mutation in the Cornish cross broiler which could explain your 3 tiny birds, but they will look like dwarves: the legs will be deformed and bow out, the body won't be shaped right, they might have an exaggerated limp when they walk, all in conjunction with the fact they are teeny tiny. That doesn't explain the others, of course.


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## Kamie (Oct 29, 2014)

Hi Fiere,

Thanks for the reply. Nothing happened when they where younger. They have never been without food either. They are eating laying crumbs, mixed with scratch grain. The smallest ones are not deformed in anyway, no limping etc.............
I'm going to try to post some pictures. If they don't show up, I couldn't figure out how.

Kamie


























Fiere said:


> Did anything happen to them when they were younger that made them go off their feed? Illness, stress, just not enough feed, etc? What/how were you feeding them and how were you keeping them up until this point?
> 
> Dwarfism is a fairly common (albeit rare) mutation in the Cornish cross broiler which could explain your 3 tiny birds, but they will look like dwarves: the legs will be deformed and bow out, the body won't be shaped right, they might have an exaggerated limp when they walk, all in conjunction with the fact they are teeny tiny. That doesn't explain the others, of course.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

They do appear to be CX. Some are a bit thin of leg and have younger features than they should at that age but where they are growing so slowly it isn't surprising. You may have just gotten a bad batch this year, unfortunately. 

Some more questions:

How is their appetites? They should be voracious, if they are awake they should be pecking for food. The crops should be full to near bursting almost all the time. A "normal" chicken not bred to have this crazy appetite will keep its crop half full at all times, and fill up before bed. A CX will eat until it can't eat anymore and then still pick at food all day, the poor things. What are yours doing?

What is the % of protein on your layer crumb? 


The thing with CX, is that they are bred to eat constantly and get huge off of what they eat. When you feed a high protein diet, they will grow muscle (meat). If you feed a high carb diet, they will grow fat. High calcium diet, they will grow bone. 
If you want to slow grow the birds, you'd ideally feed a 16% protein feed and cut that with scratch grain or other high carb food that will give calories but is essentially filler with no nutritional value, or feed meals and let them free range or have access to a large pen where they can move a lot. This is essentially what is going on with your birds right now, they are being slow grown. Not a bad thing, I do it myself. But you want these birds at slaughter weight ASAP I take it so that approach isn't ideal. 

Scratch has no nutritional value. It is basically the bread of chicken feed. It is very good for adding fat but not good for much else. Your meat birds are filling up on empty calories when they could be filling up on protein. Adding alfalfa will increase the protein but it is also going to increase the digestion time and the fibre. Again not ideal if what you want to do is pack quick pounds on these birds. 

What I would do to put weight on these birds right now is this: 
Find them a food that is high in protein. This can be chick grower/starter, turkey feed, game bird feed, it really doesn't matter - find something with preferably 20-22% protein. 
Don't feed scratch or alfalfa with their ration. You want them to fill up on protein first, then if they want to peck at a bit of alfalfa and scratch, they can, but it shouldn't be a % of their meal.
If they are free feeding right now, take the feeders out. Feed them meals. The idea here is to kick start that "starvation mode" that meat birds have ingrained in their minds. Feed them the recommended daily amount, but break it into two feedings, morning and night. Midway through the day when the birds are hungry, feed them scratch and alfalfa to supplement their diet but not take away from it. At night, give them their other feeding. It will take very little time for these birds to think they are starving because they don't have the ability to eat when they want. They will learn to eat as much as they can as quickly as possible and after a week or so, you can put the free feeders back in because they will still retain that ideal of "we will never see food again" and eat. 
I'd also limit their movement. You don't want them wasting calories by running across the yard. Just give them room enough to be happy and stretch their legs (obviously I don't know what your set up is lol they might get that now). 

It might take them 2-3 weeks but they will gain weight. You just need to restart their systems and make sure they are eating as much protein as possible, with as little filler as possible. You want muscle not fat 

I feed my CX an 18% protein poultry grower which I ferment. They get 2 meals a day of the feed ration and free range to forage for supplementation and to keep their bones and joints healthy. I also supplement all my birds diets with kitchen scraps; veggies, meat, grains, etc. I butcher my CX between 13-14 weeks and they dress out at 7-9lbs each, hens being on the lighter side, cockerels on the heavier (that's between 10-13lbs live weight).


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## Kamie (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks again for the reply,

I'll give everything you said a try, can't hurt at this point. You are also correct that the crumbs I'm feeding is 16 percent protein. I took them off chick start at 4 weeks, because it just got so expensive. They are eating like crazy too and there crops are full. The pen they are in isn't huge, I'd guess 12 by 12 feet.

The thing that puzzles me the most is twice a year every year, we have raised CX on the exact diet I'm feeding know and never had a problem before. I tried calling the hatchery to see if anyone else had this problem, but they are closed for the rest of the year.

Thanks again for the very useful information,
Kamie


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Wait, don't go. I went back are reread your initial post because of something I saw in the pics, missing feathers. It is possible that that is just too many birds in that space and the ones that are so small have been bullied away from the feeders. I notice neck feathers are missing on one of the small birds.

I knew Fiere would have some good ideas for you.


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## Kamie (Oct 29, 2014)

robin416 said:


> Wait, don't go. I went back are reread your initial post because of something I saw in the pics, missing feathers. It is possible that that is just too many birds in that space and the ones that are so small have been bullied away from the feeders. I notice neck feathers are missing on one of the small birds.
> 
> I knew Fiere would have some good ideas for you.


I don't think bulling is a issue. They eat together just fine, plus they have access to 4 different feeding stations.

Fiere, is amazing, and I'm thankful for all the help!!!!

Kamie


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Could just be this batch doesn't want to grow well on lower protein. The CX doesn't breed true, so they actually re-breed a strain every year, so each generation is a little different. The grandparents breed true, the parents fine tune, and the chicks are your final product. Basically it takes 3 years of breeding to get one year of chicks so the hatcheries rotate lines and some turn out to be really great and others not so much. Most of the big poultry producers don't keep them longer than 6 weeks so it's not until you get folks like us that want to keep them longer and grow them bigger do you see the major differences. 

The missing feathers are just a CX thing, Robin. They grow faster than their feathers can cover skin, I think. The CX hens I'm keeping to cross under my big Australorp roo for next year are bare under their vents still, and they were hatched June 2nd. They better grow some soon, before they freeze their tails off! The littlest ones very well could be being pushed away from the feeders and that's why they're smaller. I can't make the pics big enough to see neck feathers but it's entirely possible. My CX have no problems muscling the turkeys and Muscovy away at meal time. Darn birds are crazy when food is around.

Glad I could help! Like I said, what worked in the passed might not be the issue, it may just be this generation of birds. Definitely up their protein and lat them pack on the muscle. It'll happen fairly quick if you feed them like that as they've been bred to eat that type of feed regime.


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## Kamie (Oct 29, 2014)

Fiere,

I just wanted to thank you again for all the help you offered. I've learned a lot from your posts, and it was very kind of you to help out a complete newbie to this forum.

Today, we got the chick start and added two feeders. I'm hoping some of the larger ones will be ready next weekend. I'm thinking against doing the starve out thing as they are eating so well already, but I'll keep it in mind. I got to thinking today that we used to pull the starve out strategy around week one, the first few years, but haven't in the last two. I just forget about it!!! My bad.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge,
Kamie


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

If they're eating well don't bother with meals. I only mentioned it if they're not ravenous as you want that strong appetite. You still feed them the same amount, you just trick them into thinking they aren't lol. Anyway its a moot point as loss of appetite isn't an issue with your meaties.

And no problem with the help! We all have those moments when our birds confuse us


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## Kamie (Oct 29, 2014)

Fiere,

Just wanted to let you know you are a genius!!! The switch in food is going really well. Twenty or so should be ready by the weekend. The rest we plan on doing the following weekend.

Can't thank you enough for the helpful information,

Kamie


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Awesome! Glad I could help


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