# 5 month old cannot stand



## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

Out of the blue Saturday AM, one of my Dominiques was laying on the ground. Thought she was dusting, but upon further inspection, she could not stand up. Seemed otherwise okay. Have separated her. She is eating, drinking and can lean on her hocks so to speak, but cannot stand up and walk. She also laid an egg yesterday. No prior symptoms. Happened over night. Please help. I also have a video if anyone wants to view to help diagnose this hen. I've been giving her yogurt and poly-vi-sol vitamins. She is eating and drinking normally.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Do I see curled toes? Pick her up see if her toes curl. Does she have feeling in her feet?

If her toes are curled this could be a riboflavin deficiency. 

And if her toes are curled, I would really like to know what the heck is going on. Yours would be the third bird in a month that appears to be suffering from a B deficiency.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

they are somewhat curled. I have a video that may be more helpful. I was thinking the same thing. So what can I give her for that? I'm giving her the poly-vi-sol. Should have get the actual B vitamin supplement.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Yeah and it's not all that easy to find in pharmacies.

Going to have to get you and Maryellen talking to see if there is some common denominator at play. In all the years I've been raising chickens I have never seen this many birds in such a short time suffering with what appears to be a B deficiency.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

I just checked her at lunch time. Her feet are more curled than this morning. She is having a major fit in the small dog crate I have her in. I am going to put my large dog crate together and put her in that. What particular Vit B should I get. There is a GNC in my town along with many other pharmacies. I don't want to give up on her. She is one of my favorites.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

I have never had this happen either. Of course, right away everyone says Mareks which I did not believe.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

B2. Don't be concerned about over dose, excess B is excreted through the kidneys. Long term, high dosage use can lead to problems with the kidneys. Once she's up you might have to continue supplementing her with the B for a while afterwards.

BTW, did you notice a limp before she got to this point? Maryellen saw that in her bird before she went down completely.

Mareks is not one of those things I automatically think of until I learn more. The curled toes is why I say B2 (riboflavin) deficiency. But I will tell someone it is a strong possibility when no other information is available. Mareks symptoms are wide ranging but thankfully there are look alike problems that can be addressed, like your girl's.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

I did not notice a limp prior. Gave them their grapes Friday night like always and she was the loudest of the bunch as usual. 

I am going to try to get the B2 on way home from work today. I think they come in like 100 whatever dose pills. One a day? Best way to get them in her. Crush and put in yogurt?

Should I keep her in the dog crate until she improves so I know she is able to eat and drink, whereas if she is in the run, she would not be able to reach the food and water. 

I appreciate your help so much. I will post updates if that's okay.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I don't know what the dose should be quite honestly. But whatever they have available is a good place to start. Put them in whatever she'll eat. Or if GNC has the liquid form, give that a try.

Keep her wherever you think is safest for her. We can't be there to see your setup and you know it best. 

An update would be much appreciated. Trying to help in this way is hard, can't see the bird, can't touch it. All that's available to help is what the owner tells us and studies that are published online to help in a possible diagnosis.

So, if she is B2 deficient this will help any of those that read it later to make choices about treatment.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

I am passionate about my birds and try to take the best care of them possible. Well, I know I'm putting her in the bigger dog crate. I will keep you updated on her condition. Thanks a bunch.


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## zamora (May 26, 2015)

Good luck with her and please do keep us posted.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

One more post. Just called GNC and they have B2 in stock. What about Rickets? Guess why I'm asking this is while I'm at GNC will it hurt to get Vitamin D while I'm there?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

walnutdale22 said:


> I am passionate about my birds and try to take the best care of them possible. Well, I know I'm putting her in the bigger dog crate. I will keep you updated on her condition. Thanks a bunch.


Sharing your passion here with others is always welcome. Most here share the same and only want what is best for the critters under their care.

We learn everyday from someone, a new technique, the newest thing out there to make our lives and theirs better. And then there are the goofy things they do to keep us entertained.

Mine are all ancient in bird years so they are not so entertaining in doing off the wall things but they're mine and will live their lives out with me. Add in that they're Silkies and rarely do off the wall things young or old and it can be rather boring.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

D is a completely different vitamin. It is absorbed in to the fat and can become toxic. I don't recommend D of any kind unless there is a good reason for it.

If she is out in the sun on a normal basis then she should not need it. The amount of time she's been in would not deplete her D stores.

What you want to focus on now is whether the B2 addresses her problem. You don't want to confuse things by throwing what may be unnecessary and blurring the thing that works. I don't think she had rickets, there are other signs and symptoms for that problem and it's not what she is displaying now.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

Thanks. Will just do the B2.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

Forgot to ask yesterday, but how long does it take something like this to be remedied? She is no better/no worse today. Crushed up the B2 and put in some yogurt. She ate it with no problem.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I've never had to deal with it and the studies I read don't say how long on average. But Maryellen's girl started showing improvement within three days. The last she posted the girl was up but went back down again. Not sure if it was because the bird did too much that day or if she wasn't giving the B still.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

No real changes since starting the B2. Put her in a bigger cage which has calmed her down tremendously. Still laying eggs, though. No signs of anything in rest of flock. I put her on our covered porch today to get some fresh air and sunlight since our garage is not well lit.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

That's the hard part of things like this, it takes time. We want to see improvement right away or better yet complete recovery. Because while we're waiting we still can't be completely certain that is the issue. I don't know any other condition that involves the two things together that you're seeing. Doesn't mean there are not more but doing searches that is the one thing that keeps popping up in studies. 

It has only been a day and it took her a while for the depletion to happen so it will take a bit of time to get the B in to the body over all again.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

"miss Kay" has been able to stand today for periods of time. She is wobbly though but her toes are not curled when standing. She has been taking the crushed b2 off a spoon with yogurt with no problem. She is adjusting to being in the large dog crate. Put her out in some grass for a bit. Am not going to rush her. Just glad I've seen improvement. Thanks so much for the help!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Thank Maryellen. If she hadn't just gone through the same thing I wouldn't have had a suggestion so quickly. 

Thanks for the update, so very glad to read she's doing better.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

I saw MaryEllen's post today. Miss Kay is still progressing. I put her in with others today but brought her in tonight to sleep. She is walking much better. She is pretty smart. She sees me with the yogurt container and comes right to me to eat her yogurt and b2. I hope the progress continues. Also, hope Priscilla gets better also.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I don't understand why this is happening. Everything I've read keeps pointing back to the feed. I've looked but haven't seen any recalls on poultry feed.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

What are you feeding your birds?


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

http://www.hubbardlife.com/poultry/layer.aspx


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Completely different from the one Maryellen is using.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

So, are you saying it may not be the food? Is what I'm feeding them sufficient?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

The best feed is the freshest feed. I don't know what Hubbard is telling vendors is an acceptable shelf life but I know Purina tells vendors six months. That is too old. As soon as feed is processed it begins to lose potency where vitamins are concerned. Considering they put the minimum daily requirement in to their feed to begin with, at six months the vitamin content available is very depleted. I always tried to make sure my feed was no older than two months. 

There will always be a canary in the flock. The first one that will alert to something not being right. I had that in mine. I lost two females back to back. Not normal. I began to suspect the feed. When I dumped it I found abnormal clumps of feed. I talked to feed store and found out they had a sprinkler head rupture. They thought they removed all of the bad feed. They didn't, I got one of them and was feeding my birds mycotoxins. 

Your girl might be one of those birds. Or she might be one that is having a problem absorbing nutrients efficiently. Only time will tell.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

I have to get feed this week, so I will check on a date, etc. We have a local co-op that makes and sells feed, which I used many moons ago, but was not happy with it. It didn't look right sometimes and had bugs in it, so I quit using that. 

I bring her in at night and after her B2 in the AM, I take her back out with the flock. Waiting until I feel she is stronger to stay out with the others and roost at night.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Hopefully, they'll actually have a date on the bag instead of a date code. If not ask them how to decipher it.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

Been doing a little research about riboflavin deficiency and I see a lot of topics about using Brewer's Yeast. Do you just add it to the feed or what? I guess I'm concerned that after stopping the B-2 that my hen will go back to the way she was prior to the B-2. She has been on the B-2 for 1 week now. I wasn't planning on stopping it, although, she is doing much better. Looking for ways to keep the riboflavin deficiency at bay, etc. Thanks


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Ok, did a little digging on Brewer's yeast. If not for the chromium also in it I would say go for it. Chromium can become toxic very quickly if too much is given. Especially in chickens. I do see where others have used it but don't know any of the end stories on whether or not it worked. It has B complex, not a bad thing at all. So, give it a go and see what happens. If you can buy the cakes of brewers yeast you can either crush it and top dress their feed or leave it in cake form and let them free choice it.

I understand your concern about taking her off the B and having her rebound but this could be something she'll grow out of.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

Thank you. We have a local store here that sells bulk flour, grains, you name it, so I will see if they have it. 

I did not bring her in last night. She went in with the others at dark time but I'm not sure if she roosted or not. I didn't want to go in and disturb them and she was out with the others this AM when I went to give her her B-2. She is getting attached to me. It's funny, I go out and, of course they all gather around me, but she makes a point to come and get right up against my leg.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

It's always positive to learn they are able to rejoin their own. 

Once again, we have proof. They ARE NOT just chickens! I always find it to be a hoot when mine alarm at voices they don't recognize.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

Our turkeys, especially, react to strangers, strange cars and strange dogs. We know if someone knew comes up our driveway because the turkeys let us know. 

Real quick, my Buff Orpington has a thing for my yellow lab. When I'm out with the chickens, the dogs are always there also. The Buff Orpington will follow my lab around from one end of the pen area to the other. I mean, she could be eating and as soon as she sees the dog she immediately goes to follow her. It's the funniest thing.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

When things are going well between dogs and the feathered ones it's always fun to watch. I had issues with one my dogs and it took me going all banshee on him to convince him the birds were mine. He got it, finally. It wasn't long after that the dogs and my Guineas worked together to run off interlopers. The Guineas had a body language the dogs recognized when they were after something, the dogs would rocket off the porch to go join them. And the dogs had a bark that had the Guineas running to see what was going on. Then both groups would take off after whatever it was.


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## chicken123 (Jul 9, 2015)

Hey,i don't know the answer but how do I post?


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

I have been giving her B2 in the AM and Nutri-Drench at night with yogurt. I did not give her the Nutri-Drench last night and this morning she could hardly stand and when she did stand, she was very wobbly. I gave her the B2 and will see what she is like at lunch time. I will give the Nutri-Drench also. Just very weird. 

She seemed more active the last two days. Could she have overdid it? I don't know. We have a small perch in the outside run area and she has been getting on that. It is not very far up off the ground. 
Just very puzzling.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Seems to me I remember that the nutri drench doesn't have any riboflavin in it. What has all of the B vitamins is Poultry Cell by Rooster Booster.

I did warn Maryellen in the early going that her bird might have something more going on because she had so many issues with that breed. The same could be true of yours but there is no way of knowing without some serious blood work.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

I will see if I can locate the Poultry Cell. 

Could her problem possibly be from her mother/father? All my other hens of her type of fine. 

Thank you


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

TSC carries the Rooster Booster products. That's what I used on Head Tuck when she started tucking in all of this heat. She's not tucking any more, partly because the misters are up and running keeping their area cooler. 

Not saying her parents are the cause of her issues but they can pass along issues to their peeps.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

Just called our local TSC and they have one bottle which they have put back for me to pick up after work. Thank you.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

When I got home yesterday "Miss Kay" was down like before, only she seemed worse. She would try to stand but basically do a nose dive. No balance and her toes are curled again. Gave her the Poultry cell and the B2 this morning, with no improvement. I'm going to give her a couple more days to see if she comes out of it, but if not I feel I am going to have to put her down. 

Now, my dilemma, how do you humanely put a chicken down? I am going to call my vet today to see if they will do it. 

I'm sitting here crying at work and I know people think I'm nuts, but I can't help it.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I completely understand. When I had a bird that was very much aware of it's surroundings my vet would put them down when it became necessary. I hope yours can help you if you don't see improvement.


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## walnutdale22 (Jun 29, 2015)

Miss Kay is not progressing, although, would it be possible she now injured herself? Her left leg/Feet are fine. Right leg not able to use. Her right foot is totally curled under. I tried to feel for a break and she did not act like she was hurt. Just puzzled as to what is going on. Any suggestions on testing for broken leg would help me. Thanks


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

X-ray is the only reliable way to know if something is going on with the joints her her leg.


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