# What is going on??



## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

Hi all. I’m a new chicken mama, and I need some help. I have a Polish who is about 4 weeks old and is not doing well. I have spent hours researching over the last few days, and I think she has wry neck. Where I’m stuck is figuring out why she has it. Is it vitamin deficiency? Head injury? Marek’s? Newcastle? How does one determine the cause? I want to help her since she’s fighting too, but I don’t want it to be for nothing - because then I feel like I’m prolonging her suffering. 

I have been feeding her can tuna in water mixed with some of her feed, some vitamin e oil (I got a bottle of the oil rather than the tablets), and some b complex (I got soft gels and am squeezing the contents into the mixture). When I can get her to eat, she definitely eats. She’s enjoying the food for sure. 

As far as symptoms, she walks backwards with her head completely turned upside down. She gets herself all tangled up. It appears as though she has seizures or tremors at times. She also takes one foot and puts it on her head. Sometimes both eyes are open, other times, she keeps one eye closed. I feel like her being contorted like that is painful, so I’ve got her swaddled like a baby so she can keep her neck in the right position. She manages to get out of her swaddle frequently. 

what symptoms would I look for to decide if it’s Marek’s or Newcastle? I’m worried about my other 8 chicks. I did separate her as soon as I saw this behavior, so she’s in a box in my room. sorry for the long post, and thank you for any help.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Stop the tuna, way too much salt content for her little body. Use some cooked instant oatmeal with some of her food mixed in. 

Can you post some pics? This one is presenting way past anything I've seen or heard of. Does it stop or continuous? Try holding her neck in a normal position until you can feel the spasm stop. 

Change her vitamins to B1. If it's a B deficiency it's usually Thiamine. Does your vitamin E contain selenium? That's the one to use but be careful because it can build up in the body's fat. 

If you have a vet with an open mind another thing to try is prednisone. If it's swelling in the brain from an injury it should help her a lot.


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## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

robin, thanks for your reply. The b complex had a lot of thiamine, which is why I picked that one. I couldn’t find any that was just b1. The E doesn’t have selenium, but that’s why I did the tuna in water - I read that it has a lot of selenium naturally and would help with the absorption of vitamins. I’d say it’s rather continuous, but when she’s eating, I can get her to keep her head nice and straight for 3-4 minutes at a time...then she wants to look for the stars. There is a tiny spot on her cheek that is pink and messing feathers. I’m wondering if one of her buddies pecked at her because she has black spots on her cheeks? I don’t really have pictures but videos. But I haven’t figured out how to post a video on here.


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## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

Here are two pics I've got. I'll try to get a picture of her when she gets all contorted. Her fits upset me so much that I can't even think straight to get a picture ☹


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Have you checked for mites? That is such an odd place for the feathers to be missing, makes me wonder if that's what they went after. 

B1 can be hard to find so I understand that. But the tuna really does have to stop. It takes very little salt to start causing problems. 

Any chance a vet would help? If it's related to an injury the only way you can get some amount of control is using a steroid. I had one, she presented differently, within 24 hours of being on the pred there was a marked difference her tucking. 

Most upload videos through youtube.


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## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

I’ll try to get some pred. Small town I’m in, so my vets are only really open during the week. If I go into the bigger city for vet, then I’m paying emergency vet fee. I will check for mites. I’ve not noticed anything though.


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## TomC (Apr 9, 2020)

Wow! This is uncanny. Just last night, while I was sitting in a siding, I was reading some of the articles here on the forum. One of them is titled,
*Treatment Options for Stargazing*
It's on about the 5th page under the "Articles" tab.

It sounds almost identical to the symptoms in the article and is caused by a B1 (thiamine)
deficiency.

Give it a read, may give you some help.

And, by the way, Welcome to the group!!!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Except what the OP is describing isn't quite stargazing, the description goes beyond that. Head injuries tuck between the legs, stargazing is just as it sounds the head is thrown back. 

I don't remember if pred was tried on another bird whose behavior was similar what I remember of it was that B1 and D3 did not work. The conclusion was that the bird had a tumor somewhere. My head injury bird went on to live 14 years but she had challenges off and on through the years.


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## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

Would budesonide work? I have access to that. Also a steroid.


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## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

TomC said:


> Wow! This is uncanny. Just last night, while I was sitting in a siding, I was reading some of the articles here on the forum. One of them is titled,
> *Treatment Options for Stargazing*
> It's on about the 5th page under the "Articles" tab.
> 
> ...


Tom, thanks for the welcome. I have watched some videos and read some posts that describe almost the same behavior. I'll try to get a video uploaded in a bit and see if that provides insight.


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## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

Here is first day


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

K10sal said:


> Would budesonide work? I have access to that. Also a steroid.


I couldn't find anything that says it can be used in chickens. It also appears not to treat the same areas of the body as pred does. So even if we could come up with a dose it probably wouldn't work.


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## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

Here is yesterday, day 2. And don't make fun of my silly talk.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I forgot to turn my speakers on so you're safe. 

While we're at this check her ears. Look for drainage or any build up of anything that doesn't belong. And swelling or redness.

Also, I forgot to mention this, Kaytee Exact Hand Rearing Formula for cage birds. I can get it at Pet Smart but I usually order the five pound bag from Chewy. I still use it as a treat for my birds. They love it and it has everything she needs. You can mix the extra vitamins in it too.


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## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

I just grabbed poly vi sol. Cannot find selenium or b1 at all. I will try to get over to petco and see if they have the kaytee exact.


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## TomC (Apr 9, 2020)

My bad, I misread the post, I took it as throwing her head back.



K10sal said:


> And don't make fun of my silly talk


There's no fun in that.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Tom, you did and you didn't. Her bird is behaving more extreme from anything I've ever heard of. And now we're throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

K10, check your D3 ingredients. Chances are the selenium is in that. It's rare not to find it part of the ingredients. Selenium can be overdosed very easily so you probably won't find it by itself. About like how hard it is to find the B1 by itself.


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## TomC (Apr 9, 2020)

I hope she gets to feeling better. From the videos, she seems to have a sweet personality.


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## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

Her ears are so teeny! It's so hard to look at them. I have never inspected chicken ears before. Vents, yes. Ears, no. So I don't feel like I know what looks normal. I don't see anything in them. It looks open to me. Her right ear is harder for me to look at because that's the side she has her head cocked to. Don't mind my gross fingers. I'm staining my porch railings.


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## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

Here are labels for poly vi sol, super b complex, and vitamin e oil. I don't see selenium anywhere in them. How else can I get her some selenium? Should I get goat paste?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Well, that's the first time I've seen E in liquid form and not in a capsule. The capsules are the one that usually include the selenium. When I'd be giving one of the bird the E I would poke a hole in the capsule and squeeze into the food.

Ears look really good. Truthfully, I was hoping to see something not right in the right ear. 

Talk to Sarah about Blu Kote and what stuff looks like after using that. So don't worry about your fingers, mine are really ragged from all the work I've been doing around here.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

One thing you should be aware of too, if it's a vitamin deficiency it's not an instant recovery. I would expect to see some improvement after a few days.


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## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

Just an update on the cutest baby chicken ever...she died in my hands this morning. I'm heartbroken. Lots of progress was made, then yesterday was 2 steps back. Then I gave her a baby chicken bath yesterday because she was stinky - vitamins on her, food on her crazy head, and then poop. I thought I followed all the chicken bath rules, but I think it just may have been too much stress for her little weak body. So she really seemed worse last night. I woke up to check on her this morning, and she was hardly peeping. I got water and dipped her beak in a few times and she appeared to be drinking it...then she started to open her beak like a baby bird looking for food. In hindsight, I think she was aspirating. I dropped 3 drops of poly vi sol on the side of her beak, and she opened her eyes wide, her whole body stiffened and she stood up straight, and then she fell backwards in my hands and went limp. My heart is very sad. It amazes me how some of us can love our chickens, like genuinely love them, while others can think it's the craziest thing in the world that we even like them. But I loved that little thing. Staying up around the clock and fighting with everything you have for them creates something unique, I suppose.
On a positive note, the other 8 seem happy and healthy, so I'm hopeful that it wasn't something contagious.

here are just a few cute pics just because. I have 2 dobermans. My male is a little scared of the chickens because he's just unsure. My female thinks they are her babies and started lactating when we brought them home. Don't worry...they don't interact unsupervised. If there is a chicken heaven, I know that my cute little 7-Up made her way there.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'm so sorry that she didn't make it. It's something that we struggle with having these guys.

We are crazy chicken people and wear that badge with honor. Those that think there is something wrong with us are missing out what they can bring in to our lives.


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## TomC (Apr 9, 2020)

I'm truly sorry to hear that you lost her. It's amazing how fast we get attached to the little guys, especially when you devote so much time trying to make one better.

I've found that people who don't understand or have no feelings when something goes wrong with a smaller creature, often have little regard for life in general. Be proud that you get sad with the passing of your little friend. It show that you appreciate life and other living things.


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## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

Thanks guys


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## Sylie (May 4, 2018)

OH I'm so sorry! *hug* That was a rough one. I know how much time, energy and love you put into her. I am truly sorry.


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## K10sal (May 16, 2020)

I really did. But, if she was just going to be a sick baby, I’m realizing that I’m relieved that she won’t suffer. I miss her crazy little head...her cute little upside down face...and I especially miss the cute little circles that she did when she got excited to hear my high pitched baby voice yell out “heads up, 7-Up!!” I’ll be sad for a little bit...she was the first chicken that I ever did love. But I really do like my others.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

There will be another that will creep in, not because of health challenges but because of it's personality. We've all had a couple. At least those of us that have been raising them for a while.


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## Sylie (May 4, 2018)

I second that Robin  I will never forget my sweet Old English Crele (named Echo). He was so amazing, so sweet and so hilarious, he did the funniest things.

We are hugging you K10


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