# 3 of my 4 chickens have diarrhea, not sure why....



## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

or if it's even a big deal. I've looked at photo after photo of chicken poop, and it seems like all of what I think is diarrhea is all normal poop.

I'm not sure what the cause is, either, but I did lose a hen a couple of weeks ago to salpingitis. I've tried some basic things, like giving milk kefir in hopes of balancing out their gut flora, but it seems like it's not just a gut flora issue. I've added ACV to their water, but I just discovered that I'm probably not putting enough in their 3 gallon waterer (I was only putting 2 tbsp). I'm considering putting some oregano oil (in a carrier oil) in their water as a natural antibiotic, but I'm leery because it's a pretty volatile oil and I'd hate to make a mistake and cause my girls to burn their mouths on the oil.

I have had chickens for a few years (since 2012), but just in the past year I've started having issues and I honestly don't know how to figure out what could be wrong. I have some sulmet from 3-4 years ago (it's probably expired) if I need to start something today. I could get other antibiotics this week to help if I need to, but I tend not to be a "just in case" person--I'd rather actually know what's wrong and treat the issue if possible, versus just taking a shot in the dark.

A little more info, only one of my chickens (Carlota) is laying, and she is one that has diarrhea, but her eggs are nice and clean, so I'm guessing that it's not as bad but I have no real idea. Ethel keeps sitting in the nesting box, but never lays (could she be egg bound? Does that cause diarrhea?). My Carolyne has a pretty bad case of diarrhea, I'd say the worst of the 3. My 4th girl, Mrs. Trumble, isn't having diarrhea, but isn't laying, and she's been my best layer in the last year. It feels like I'm dealing with all different issues with all 4, so I'm kind of overwhelmed.

We are having quite a warm February. We are in Southern California, and temps have been in the upper 70s and low to mid 80s for the past few weeks. This week, we'll probably hit 90 at least one day. It could be that the girls are drinking more, I suppose. I've noticed so much more watery poop around, though, that it's really concerned me. I've never seen this much before, even last summer.

I've given them (every other day or so) our food scraps, including meat scraps. Could that be throwing off the nutritional balance in the laying feed? I usually feed them this: http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/natures-best-organic-16-egg-layer-pellets-40-lb, but since they stopped laying, I bought this feed, which they have been eating fine. Not sure if the watery poop/diarrhea has to do with this feed or not, but this is it: http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dumor-poultry-layer-16-crumble?cm_vc=-10005

I have been giving them milk kefir mixed with their crumble, about a pint for all 4 once per week. They eat it over a day. I have free choice oyster shell out, and I mix oyster shell into the milk kefir mixture, along with a handful of BOSS.

Please someone tell me what I'm doing wrong, or how to troubleshoot what is going on. I'm at a loss here, and don't want to lose my girls over something that's obvious to someone more well versed than I. If one of you kind experts could hold my hand so I could learn how to troubleshoot my girls' issues, that would be so great. Thanks in advance.


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

I've gotten some advice elsewhere to treat for cocci. I could do that if I needed to, but is it possible that they would show only the one symptom, which is diarrhea? Also, all the photos of cocci poop look different than anything I've seen in my yard.

Ahh what to do?


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Stick to feeding just their complete feed.


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

I'm thinking that too, but they have had this issue to some degree before I started adding things to their diet. I wasn't doing the ACV, scraps, or kefir up until a few weeks ago, and I've been seeing the issue in at least one or two of my hens for longer than they've had the dietary change.

Having said that, I think it's prudent to remove it all and see what happens. I've read that if nothing changes in a week, then it's time to try something else. 

Any thoughts on treating for coccidia?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Do you have a vet that will work with you? See if you can take samples in to have them check under the microscope to see if anything is present. It's far better to have some idea or eliminate things, like cocci, before throwing things at them that could make things worse. 

Have you tried just probiotics? What, if anything, has changed? Was the weather a sudden jump?


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

I agree with Nm156. Feed them layer feed ONLY. No more ACV in the water neither.


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

I just asked my vet if he would work with chickens and he said no, he just does dogs and cats.

I do have some Probios I can use. February has been a bit hotter by about 10 degrees.


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

I understand why you all are saying JUST layer feed---that, water and oyster shell was their diet for months before I started trying to figure this out. 

My plan is to go back to that, but honestly, I'm not convinced that doing so will clear up the diarrhea completely since it was present before the other additives. I don't normally do all of those things, but was seeking to perhaps correct things through diet, which is something I've had success with my other animals. Nevertheless, I do think it's most prudent to start there, and do things a bit more systematically, by process of elimination like Robin mentioned.

Thanks all.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Don't ask the vet about treating, ask about checking fecal samples. Sometimes they will do that even though they refuse to treat chickens.

Depending on where you live you might have a large animal vet close. I haven't had one say no to chickens yet.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

When I had to take my rooster to the vet,an exotic animal vet was the only 1 to look at him.Fortunately,he had "chicken"experience.He was located in a neighborhood where "keeping chickens" is in and I assume these people were taking their chickens in for medical care.They were really great. I read somewhere a little blackstrap molasses is good for chickens with diarrhea-it replaces nutrients lost with diarrhea.Too much will cause diarrhea and I don't know how much is too much.I put a tsp in their food every other day when I see poopy butts,just in case and that amount didn't seem to make it worse.I hope your chickens recover.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Molasses, even diluted causes diarrhea in poultry.
White boiled rice mixed with buttermilk will prevent diarrhea if given for several days.


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

Thanks everyone!

It looks like I may be able to borrow a microscope from a friend and do a fecal myself. If that doesn't show me anything, I'll call a few vets around here to see who would be willing to do a fecal for me. My dog/cat vet isn't into doing anything like that I don't think, he's a good vet, just a little stretched, I think-or at least that's the feeling I get from him anyway.

I stopped by TSC to pick up some new Wazine and some coccidia treatment just in case the fecal shows positive for cocci and/or worms. Hopefully I don't need to use it.

Just for some visual info, here is a slideshow of my chickens all the different kinds of poop I saw this morning.

http://s63.photobucket.com/user/WeatheredsPics/slideshow/Animals/Chickens Diarrhea larger photos


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

I looked at all the photos. All the poops looks normal. Birds with abit of poopy butt is normal. As a matter of fact I cleaned up one of my Black Stars rear end this morning...looked exactly like one in your photos, not a big deal really.


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

dawg53 said:


> I looked at all the photos. All the poops looks normal. Birds with abit of poopy butt is normal. As a matter of fact I cleaned up one of my Black Stars rear end this morning...looked exactly like one in your photos, not a big deal really.


Thanks Dawg, and thanks for looking. It's funny, maybe I'm just freaking out about this because I don't have a great handle on chicken keeping....kind of like when you start feeling better after a productive dr. visit, vs. the anxiety you feel when you have no idea what is wrong with you. All that to say that I'm feeling better now that I'm getting my head around how I should be doing things.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Since you're going to use a microscope, I can help you ID parasite eggs. Poultry parasites and treatments are one of my favorite subjects. Parasites are normally the first thing above all else that will weaken and take down a chicken.
The 2nd pic are Large Roundworm eggs. The 3rd pic are cecal worm eggs. The 4th pic Blackhead protozoa whose host is the Cecal worm.
The 5th pic is a Capillary worm egg.
More pics to follow.


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

Thanks Dawg, the pics will really help!


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

The 1st pic is Gapeworm eggs. The 2nd pic are Tapeworm eggs. The 3rd pic are Cocci protozoa. The 4th pic are Canker protozoa. Sorry the pics are fuzzy, old camera.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Mine have watery stool on and off all summer. But when it's hot, they drink a lot of water.


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

seminolewind said:


> Mine have watery stool on and off all summer. But when it's hot, they drink a lot of water.


Yeah, it seems like the more I have people help me figure this out, maybe this is what I'm seeing...well, that and maybe their bodies' reactions to all the extras I've been giving them. I hope so!


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

This might be helpful:
http://www.finchaviary.com/Maintenance/FecalSmear.htm


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Wow. Quite an article. I'll bet it takes some practice to be able to learn all the spheres, good, bad and non living. Kathy, how far have you gotten with your microscope?


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

I'm still waiting on hearing whether my friend still has her microscope. She is a homeschooling mom with 4 little ones, so I might be waiting a few days. LOL


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

seminolewind said:


> Wow. Quite an article. I'll bet it takes some practice to be able to learn all the spheres, good, bad and non living. Kathy, how far have you gotten with your microscope?


Haven't done anything with mine yet, but a friend of mine bought one, a centrifuge and all the other supplies and is learning how to do his own fecals.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

This vet says centrifugation is the way to go http://www.capcvet.org/expert-articles/why-fecal-centrifugation-is-better/

"I perform an interesting exercise every year in my parasitology class by using a fecal sample from a dog with a hookworm burden typical of what practitioners would see in pet dogs. The students are divided into three groups. One group performs a direct smear, another group mixes 2 g of feces with flotation solution and performs a passive flotation procedure, and the third group uses 2 g of feces and performs the centrifugal flotation procedure.

Each year the results are graphic. Usually only 25% of the students performing the direct smear recover hookworm eggs. About 70% of the students performing the passive flotation procedure report seeing hookworm eggs. And every year, without exception, 100% of the students performing the centrifugal flotation procedure report recovering hookworm eggs. This simple exercise convinces my students of the improved sensitivity of centrifugation. Improved recovery rates using centrifugal flotation procedures are also substantiated by published studies.1-4"


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

I've seen some small centrifuges on ebay for less than $200. I believe a centrifuge and microscope would be very helpful if one is truly interested in this kind of work (which I am.) A class at a local agriculture extension office or volunteering at a veterinary office might be the way to go to learn the ins and outs of these devices and materials. 
Personally, I HAVE considered buying a microscope many times but decided not to. My reason is simple; if a chickens feet touch the ground...they WILL get worms. With that in mind, a bottle of wormer is cheaper for my small flock. Also a bottle of corid for cocci is cheaper. A small flock is relative to each chicken owner, 2 birds to ad infinitum birds.
If I were running a big poultry operation, maybe over 100 chickens (for me,) I'd buy a microscope and centrifuge. The cost would be worth it vs the cost of buying antiparasitics.
Excellent info Kathy.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

My friend has a few hundred peafowl, so for him, I think it was a good investment.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

casportpony said:


> My friend has a few hundred peafowl, so for him, I think it was a good investment.


I absolutely agree.


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

Guys! Guys! The person who was going to loan me her microscope actually just asked for $10 for it. I don't know a thing about them, but I know enough to know that you can't really get one for $10, lol, so I took it. I believe this is the model. 
http://www.amazon.com/Radical-School-Student-Biological-Microscope/dp/B0045ZXM2Y

Anyone know if it's good?


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Hope it's good! I love Ebay.

I guess a centrifuge concentrates the bacteria by removing water?


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

It separates solid from liquid.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Kristi said:


> Guys! Guys! The person who was going to loan me her microscope actually just asked for $10 for it. I don't know a thing about them, but I know enough to know that you can't really get one for $10, lol, so I took it. I believe this is the model.
> http://www.amazon.com/Radical-School-Student-Biological-Microscope/dp/B0045ZXM2Y
> 
> Anyone know if it's good?


I think you're getting a great deal. I suggest that you read the link in post #20 by Casportpony (Kathy) which explains how to use a microscope. The magnification in the microscope you're purchasing will be perfect for identifying all types of worm eggs at 100x magnification and most protozoas at 400x magnification.


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

dawg53 said:


> I think you're getting a great deal. I suggest that you read the link in post #20 by Casportpony (Kathy) which explains how to use a microscope. The magnification in the microscope you're purchasing will be perfect for identifying all types of worm eggs at 100x magnification and most protozoas at 400x magnification.


Yay! Thank you for taking a look, Dawg, I really appreciate it. I actually started reading that thread and I have it pinned to my browser---as well as the page in my thread that you shared the pics on---so I can give it a try soon.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Kristi. You might consider purchasing this book. Not only does it have pics of poultry parasites that I posted earlier, but also other livestock animals, also domestic animals. I was given this book as a gift years ago, dont know where to purchase it.


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

Looks like it's on Amazon, Dawg---for $40-50+. Maybe next time I get my points from my Amazon card, I'll use it on this. I buy lots of my animal books and supplies this way.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Look on ebay, you never know. I got a used book for half of what amazon wanted.


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

seminolewind said:


> Look on ebay, you never know. I got a used book for half of what amazon wanted.


Good point! *heads over to eBay*


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## Kristi (Feb 28, 2016)

HA! I got it, I got it! It was $24.21 total---so pretty much half like you said, Seminolewind! Thanks for the suggestion!


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I always go between the two of them before purchasing


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