# What to do with a Roo??



## Chippets (Jun 8, 2013)

Ok so I've asked before what breed/sex this chicken is in another thread, and the guess was Andalusian Roo. If that's the case, I'm wondering what to do with him - he has grown up with the 5 hens we have and they are all almost 6 weeks old now. At what age will he begin to try to mate? We just want eggs, not chicks, but would it be bad to keep him separate from the girls if he turns out to be a quieter sweet chicken?


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Why would you keep him separate?


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## Chippets (Jun 8, 2013)

Is separating the only way to keep from getting chicks? I will find him another home if that's the case.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Well...you won't get chicks unless you get a broody bird in your hens and let her sit on the eggs until they hatch, so no worries. If he gets too active and starts riding the feathers off your gals, then you can either give him more hens to spread the love or get rid of him.


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## Chippets (Jun 8, 2013)

So you can eat those eggs? Sorry, I'm totally showing how green I am here!


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Yep...they taste and look just like any other egg. Honest!

This is a pic of 2 large store eggs next to one of my very small eggs...mine is fertilized. The deep orange is from free ranging and a varied diet, not because it's fertile.


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## jennifer (May 14, 2013)

Bee is right I have two lovely roosters In my flock and the eggs are the same. Just collect your eggs daily and there won't be any little surprises in your coop! Lol


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## Chippets (Jun 8, 2013)

Lol! Well, that is wonderful news since when i was a child I was always told ( by adults who never owned chickens! ) that you didn't eat fertilized eggs. Maybe that was so I wouldn't be concerned that I was going to find a baby chick inside one day! That is a great relief, since I kinda like that roo so far.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

That's usually the ones who say those things....sort of like those people who tell you how to raise kids but never had any of their own. 

Let's clear up a few others...the fertilized eggs won't grow chicks if they are not gathered quickly, left in the warm nests, or left on the counter top for weeks in the summer. They will only grow chicks if they are incubated, sat on by a hen for a number of days, etc. It takes a certain constant temperature and humidity to get eggs to develop into chicks and that doesn't just happen, even if you leave them out in the sun. If only! 

The blood spot you see in the eggs you get out of your nests are not tiny chickens in early development....you can find these in infertile eggs too. The reason you never see them in store eggs is because they don't ship those in cartons to the store and they are sorted out and used in products like egg noodles, cakes, cookies, etc. 

Hope that helps!


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## Chippets (Jun 8, 2013)

Yes, Bee, incredibly helpful! You are the proverbial wealth of information!


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Glad to help!


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## Apyl (Jun 20, 2012)

Extra Roos get eaten here.


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## Jim (Sep 26, 2012)

No worries, that is a question that comes up often. An egg is an egg, fertile or not, unless incubated or sat by a hen. People after also think the white stringy thing is a baby chick....I can't recall what it is, but for sure not a baby chick.


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## Chippets (Jun 8, 2013)

I learned in embryology what those strings are - hard to remember now, I've slept waaaaay too many times.  
Thanks, everyone for all the input! (Y'all DO think that white chicken is a Roo, right?)


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## kjohnstone (Mar 30, 2013)

hm, not so sure about being Andalusian...according to this mag I just bought, Hobby Farms "Chicken Breeds" "Combs are single with five points standing upright" (plus, according to the pic, the pointed tail of the comb pointing to the back)...Your roo seems to have a few more points.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

I'm a little curious...I've noticed that people on these chicken forums post a lot of what breed and what sex posts and I'm left wondering...do you all just buy whatever birds you see, wherever you find them? 

I've never bought a bird that I didn't know the breed or the sex of, so I'm fishing for understanding as to why this seems so prevalent in chicken keepers nowadays?


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## kjohnstone (Mar 30, 2013)

I guess the sexing of chicks other than sex-links is 10% iffy, probably relate to the skills of the sexer. I bought 6 pullets and 2 from a straight run (at that time there was not an option of australorp pullets), so I worried over one of the aussies who seemed to be bigger than the other and bigger. Turned out to be a she (yay). My friend came across someone with very many free ranging birds with a mix of breeds, who told her if she came back after chicks hatched, she could have all she could catch. (hmmm) so maybe those asking received their chicks as gifts, from someone with a mixed flock and no skills at sexing. Might be a good practice for newbies (I am one) or those who at first think that a chicken is just a chicken. Good experience before spending more for real quality stock. I do like the look of a mixture of colors in the yard, but now I know that can be done while staying within a breed. I am so Jonesing for a flock of mixed colors of Chanteclers... but I will have to wait now until attrition opens up room in the flock. I can control my impulses...I can control my impulses...I can control my impulses...(mantra to fight chick fever)


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

So....a lot of folks getting into chickens on impulse and don't really know what they want, I'm thinking? That could explain it. 

You'd think, wouldn't you, with all the rooster worries and restrictions that folks would be more deliberate and careful in their selections of livestock so that they wouldn't have to worry so much. Or do folks nowadays just like to stress over things?


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## Itsacutefuzzball (Mar 16, 2013)

Bee said:


> So....a lot of folks getting into chickens on impulse and don't really know what they want, I'm thinking? That could explain it.
> 
> You'd think, wouldn't you, with all the rooster worries and restrictions that folks would be more deliberate and careful in their selections of livestock so that they wouldn't have to worry so much. Or do folks nowadays just like to stress over things?


No, it's because most places don't tell you the breed, but assure you they're pullets. So you're going to worry when you 'think' they're Roos because you could then get a refund on something that almost got you fined. Or you could have a fine Sunday dinner. 
Or, that's my take on it.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Where do you guys buy chickens? 

Most folks that ordinarily sell pullets know if they are pullets or not...at least in these parts, and if they are reputable breeders. 

Or from hatcheries as chicks, where you can choose only pullets or roosters. 

I guess I'm just confused as to where folks in the suburbs source their chickens and why do they use those sources if they don't know what breeds or sexes they will get?


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## Chippets (Jun 8, 2013)

Bee, I got this chick as a freebie with my order from Murray McMurray. It's said to be a "rare exotic" breed. That's why I have a guessing game going on.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

That would explain how some folks get a rooster!  Do you HAVE to accept the freebie or is there no option for that?


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## Chippets (Jun 8, 2013)

I didn't even try to not get the freebie. I figured it would be fun to figure out, and if worse came to worse, it would end up in the freezer with the Cornish Xs.


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## Chippets (Jun 8, 2013)

kjohnstone said:


> hm, not so sure about being Andalusian...according to this mag I just bought, Hobby Farms "Chicken Breeds" "Combs are single with five points standing upright" (plus, according to the pic, the pointed tail of the comb pointing to the back)...Your roo seems to have a few more points.


Hmmmm....well then, the mystery continues!


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## Itsacutefuzzball (Mar 16, 2013)

Bee said:


> Where do you guys buy chickens?
> 
> Most folks that ordinarily sell pullets know if they are pullets or not...at least in these parts, and if they are reputable breeders.
> 
> ...


I buy my chooks at feed stores and at ace...


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Can you order through those places and just get pullets and get the breeds of your choice?


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## Itsacutefuzzball (Mar 16, 2013)

Usually they're pullets, but, since they get them from hatcheries, you WILL get the occasional Roo.


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## kjohnstone (Mar 30, 2013)

Can you imagine life as a chick sexer? Sitting there, looking up one chick's butt after another? What a job!


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

I would never work in a hatchery....too, too heart breaking.  It's one thing to kill an adult bird and then eat it, but to chop off beaks or grind up chicks, well...I'm just not cut out for that.


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

Bee said:


> I'm a little curious...I've noticed that people on these chicken forums post a lot of what breed and what sex posts and I'm left wondering...do you all just buy whatever birds you see, wherever you find them?
> 
> I've never bought a bird that I didn't know the breed or the sex of, so I'm fishing for understanding as to why this seems so prevalent in chicken keepers nowadays?


CORRECT Bee
if i walked into the feed store to pick up a few things for the flock 
& happened to find some oooh so cute chicks the 1st thing i would ask was "what breed are these?"
i would not want to end up with meat birds or redstars or something like that. but if i foun d out they were barred rocks from a local farm ......well i might have to take a few of those little suckers on home


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

I guess I have just read so many posts on chicken forums about these issues and they are a recurrent theme and the people always seem stressed or perplexed about their flocks~ worried about having a roo, keeping a roo, getting rid of a roo, telling if a chick is a roo, separating a roo, putting saddles and diapers on their chickens because of a roo~ that I'm always left wondering why in the world don't they just order female chicks from the hatchery and get the breed and sex they wanted so they won't have all this stress and angst? 

Or is it like a game they like to play and it keeps them guessing and involved in these little mysteries and dramas that play out in the coop? I'm missing something here.... ?


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

Bee said:


> Where do you guys buy chickens?
> 
> Most folks that ordinarily sell pullets know if they are pullets or not...at least in these parts, and if they are reputable breeders.
> 
> ...


when i go to the chicken swaps with my birds i only bring 8 week old or older pullets , that way i can be 99.9% sure that they are girls.
i like to be able to look someone rite in the eye when i say 
"all these in this cage are girls"
i do like to bring a couple cockerels too because a few people will give me a few bucks for them also. but i have found that the money is in the pullets.

piglett


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## fowlmouthgirls (May 25, 2013)

Bee, I read a lot before I became a chicken owner, but there wasn't anyone telling me, " hey the feed store lies! That Pullet bin is filled with Roos!" So there begins the guessing game. I would go about it completely different if I started over, no hatchery, feed store birds, only private breeders and ones I would hatch out myself. I also had a fail safe plan if I did end up with Roos, I have 2 different places I can rehome them to, or I have a buddy who will process them for me. 
It's the sudden boom in sustainability, and families steering clear of GMO, and livestock pumped full of drugs etc. some people don't study up before they start, I know a lady that sent her 17 yr old to just go buy 7 chicks at the feed store, now she's got 4 Roos and 3 pullets. She didn't study up evidently!


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

fowlmouthgirls said:


> Bee, I read a lot before I became a chicken owner, but there wasn't anyone telling me, " hey the feed store lies! That Pullet bin is filled with Roos!" So there begins the guessing game. I would go about it completely different if I started over, no hatchery, feed store birds, only private breeders and ones I would hatch out myself. I also had a fail safe plan if I did end up with Roos, I have 2 different places I can rehome them to, or I have a buddy who will process them for me.
> It's the sudden boom in sustainability, and families steering clear of GMO, and livestock pumped full of drugs etc. some people don't study up before they start, I know a lady that sent her 17 yr old to just go buy 7 chicks at the feed store, now she's got 4 Roos and 3 pullets. She didn't study up evidently!


 those extra roos will go really well in the "camp"


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

fowlmouthgirls said:


> Bee, I read a lot before I became a chicken owner, but there wasn't anyone telling me, " hey the feed store lies! That Pullet bin is filled with Roos!" So there begins the guessing game. I would go about it completely different if I started over, no hatchery, feed store birds, only private breeders and ones I would hatch out myself. I also had a fail safe plan if I did end up with Roos, I have 2 different places I can rehome them to, or I have a buddy who will process them for me.
> It's the sudden boom in sustainability, and families steering clear of GMO, and livestock pumped full of drugs etc. some people don't study up before they start, I know a lady that sent her 17 yr old to just go buy 7 chicks at the feed store, now she's got 4 Roos and 3 pullets. She didn't study up evidently!


Thank you for the explanation! It seemed so wide spread that I was wondering if someone was teaching everyone to go about getting chickens in that manner and everyone was listening to this and making their chicken experience more stressful.

Keeping chickens is about the least stressful livestock/animal that a person can have other than a cat. It's sad to see many folks out there going through needless stress and having the experience of chickens just ruined from the get go.

But...I can see where you are right. Folks are just waking up and having a knee jerk reaction to what has been in their faces for so many years now and keeping chickens in the cities and burbs has become more acceptable, so the learning curve starts there.


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

Bee said:


> I would never work in a hatchery....too, too heart breaking.  It's one thing to kill an adult bird and then eat it, but to chop off beaks or grind up chicks, well...I'm just not cut out for that.


Bee, im just wondering about this and to all the other people that do this feel free to build upon this.... How oh how do you look a chicken in the eye and know your going to butcher it. Honestly, i totally respect what you believe in and i am not going to even try to stop anyone, but i just want to know why you guys go through the trouble of raising chicks up frim little babies to slaughter them? Sure you can tell what they eat.. And where your meat comes from.. But i could not even imagine that. Taking a life away from a living thing for basically not a whole bunch of good reasons. (im a vegetarian) so i do not believe in slaughter houses either. I love my chickens like i do dogs, and every time one dissapears or dies i cry for days, so i guess my question is whats the point of doing this?


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## GenFoe (Apr 3, 2013)

My current head rooster was a "sexed pullet"


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## kessy09 (Jun 16, 2013)

juiceasorus said:


> Bee, im just wondering about this and to all the other people that do this feel free to build upon this.... How oh how do you look a chicken in the eye and know your going to butcher it. Honestly, i totally respect what you believe in and i am not going to even try to stop anyone, but i just want to know why you guys go through the trouble of raising chicks up frim little babies to slaughter them? Sure you can tell what they eat.. And where your meat comes from.. But i could not even imagine that. Taking a life away from a living thing for basically not a whole bunch of good reasons. (im a vegetarian) so i do not believe in slaughter houses either. I love my chickens like i do dogs, and every time one dissapears or dies i cry for days, so i guess my question is whats the point of doing this?


You sort of answered your own question there. I raise my own chickens to slaughter so I can know/control what the animal eats, and so I know where my meat comes from. I'm not feeding my child protein sourced from who knows where, fed who knows what and that was raised and processed in cruel, inhumane ways.

I have no idea how you can consider those not so good reasons. Those are great reasons. On top of that, to support local, small family farms that take pride in and actually care about their animals. To reduce fuel emissions by eating food that came from my own backyard rather than being shipped across the country.

Could you imagine how many chickens there would be in the world if we didn't eat them? Where would they go? Who would feed/shelter them? That's what I'd like to know. You'd be crying over a awful higher number of chickens dying at that point due to massive overcrowding and then their deaths really would be pointless if no one is eating them. In any case, it's not feasible to "spay/neuter" a chicken and they wouldn't be able to all coexist and maintain a high quality of life in those numbers. But, I guess at least they'd be alive and that's good enough for the vegetarians?


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

juiceasorus said:


> Bee, im just wondering about this and to all the other people that do this feel free to build upon this.... How oh how do you look a chicken in the eye and know your going to butcher it. Honestly, i totally respect what you believe in and i am not going to even try to stop anyone, but i just want to know why you guys go through the trouble of raising chicks up frim little babies to slaughter them? Sure you can tell what they eat.. And where your meat comes from.. But i could not even imagine that. Taking a life away from a living thing for basically not a whole bunch of good reasons. (im a vegetarian) so i do not believe in slaughter houses either. I love my chickens like i do dogs, and every time one dissapears or dies i cry for days, so i guess my question is whats the point of doing this?


To put it simply...I'm NOT a vegetarian. I know it feels very good and fuzzy to think you only have chickens for the eggs and you would never actually kill an animal and eat it...but did you know your chicken or the chicken it descended from likely came from a hatchery?

In that hatchery, most of the male chicks are placed alive into a meat grinder to be turned into pet food. By buying into chickens and keeping chickens, along with all that comes with it, you are contributing to the death of millions of innocent baby chicks each year, ground alive so that dogs can eat. So...by proxy, you are indeed killing animals even though you feel as if you are not.

But that's different...yes..I hear that a lot. But, that's different. Different from what? From placing a knife blade to my own chicken's neck and slaughtering it and eating it? No different. A bird has to die, either way. I just take responsibility for it because I'm an adult and that's what we do..take responsibility for our actions in life.

I just don't like to go through life as a hypocrite about the death of my foods or the animals that die so that others can have pets.

Here's another tip..I don't look them in the eye. They are usually hanging upside down with their faces turned away..not because it makes me feel better, because that's how I do it.

Another thing to ponder: Millions of babies each year are being dissolved in saline acid and sucked out of their mother's wombs and I don't see many people looking at those who do it and say, "HOW do you do it??? I mean, I never kill babies because I believe in the sanctity of human life..but HOW do you DO it?? How do you not realize it may have your eyes and your smile, have a lot to contribute to the world, have a tender heart or be a good dancer or sing like a bird or simply LOVE you with both arms and all their heart?"

Nope..that's considered a choice and a right~how dare anyone question it. But kill a chicken to feed your family and everyone bawls their eyes out and looks at you with horror in their voices and says, "Oh, how do you DO that??? Raise it from a chick and then kill it?".

Priorities, truth, life, food....I try to keep them all straight in my mind. I eat meat, so I grow and kill my own meats for the eating and I make no apologies for it. What dies in order for YOU to live your life the way you want to?

To be honest, that question gets a little old..I hear it all the time and I always give the same answer. And I always get the same comeback..._"But...that's different!" _

Not from where I'm sittin' it isn't.


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## nj2wv (Aug 27, 2013)

I will eat my chickens when they are big enough or stop laying .. animals were made for us to eat .. its in acts chapter 10 .. i know what the chickens eat and drink so they are much healthier and well cared for .. when it comes time to process them , i will know that they did the great job they were created for .. giving me and my family delicious eggs and a delicious healthy meat


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Yep! That's the beauty of living in a free country. We have choices and the freedom to make them, with different cultures and belief systems all living in one country.

I was raised on homesteading, raising our own foods and harvesting them. We also harvested food from the forest: deer, squirrel, berries, and nuts. It's as natural as breathing to me to continue to do so and I always find it odd that folks dare question it.

Would you question a native tribe about why they kill animals and eat them? It's their culture and has been a big part of their survival. Not every human was raised up in a city with enough money to eat from a store with the luxury of having all their foods grown for them and neatly packaged in plastic. Many people all over the world~America included~are raised below the so-called poverty level and exists on eating the animal life of this planet.

Not only is it a culture and a way to survive, but it's a belief system as well. The scriptures are clear on it, as was stated in the last post. If God's okay with it, so am I.



> Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.	* Genesis 9:3*


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

Bee said:


> To put it simply...I'm NOT a vegetarian. I know it feels very good and fuzzy to think you only have chickens for the eggs and you would never actually kill an animal and eat it...but did you know your chicken or the chicken it descended from likely came from a hatchery?
> 
> In that hatchery, most of the male chicks are placed alive into a meat grinder to be turned into pet food. By buying into chickens and keeping chickens, along with all that comes with it, you are contributing to the death of millions of innocent baby chicks each year, ground alive so that dogs can eat. So...by proxy, you are indeed killing animals even though you feel as if you are not.
> 
> ...


Bee, i am sorry if i upset you in anyway, i understand the circle of life (thanks lion king!). But, i usually do not buy my chicks from a hatchery, i go to a rescue and adopt them usually when there adults, cause honestly every one knows that after awhile raising chicks could be aweful if you have to keep a rooster in  and i posted a thread on here about buying from mypetchicken, but they and i think meyers hatchery doesnt clip there beaks i looked into that closely cause i dont believe in that cruel practice, also mypetchicken isnt a hatchery. I went to the rescue and saw these poor hens and roos with half a beak poor things i would have adopted them but didnt have enough crates for the ride home. And later in this thread you posted as long as its okay with god its okay with me, sorry i am a non believer of him too.

I really am not going to try and deter anyone from doing this, if thats your belief who am i to try and stop you? I just dont understand why it matters what is in your meat? That is pretty much the only main reason repeated in different words.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

juiceasorus said:


> Bee, i am sorry if i upset you in anyway, i understand the circle of life (thanks lion king!). But, i usually do not buy my chicks from a hatchery, i go to a rescue and adopt them usually when there adults, cause honestly every one knows that after awhile raising chicks could be aweful if you have to keep a rooster in  and i posted a thread on here about buying from mypetchicken, but they and i think meyers hatchery doesnt clip there beaks i looked into that closely cause i dont believe in that cruel practice, also mypetchicken isnt a hatchery. I went to the rescue and saw these poor hens and roos with half a beak poor things i would have adopted them but didnt have enough crates for the ride home. And later in this thread you posted as long as its okay with god its okay with me, s*orry i am a non believer of him too. *
> 
> I really am not going to try and deter anyone from doing this, if thats your belief who am i to try and stop you? I just dont understand why it matters what is in your meat? That is pretty much the only main reason repeated in different words.


That is often the case in many who question why we eat animals because they equate animal life with human life. It could explain why you are so confused in your thinking that, by rescuing chickens you are not contributing to the whole system of animal exploitation...sort of making up for it in some way, I guess. Those chickens did indeed come from a hatchery, were mutilated from the beginning, lived horrible lives and now you have them. You're just the last link in the chain, but you are in the chain.

Does it matter where you get your veggies and how they are grown? Do you care if they are loaded down with poisonous chemicals to keep the bugs off them, fertilized with human excrement, and harvested by very exploited, underpaid and unskilled labor and poorly washed, then treated with more chemicals to keep them fresh? If so, why?

Food purity is a big thing right now...always was but it's becoming clear to even those who live in urban areas that our meat, eggs and dairy supplies are tainted. Now the vegetables are as well, with recalls in that area for e.coli contaminations, salmonella, etc.

MPC isn't a hatchery, but it sources hatcheries....it's just that you buy your birds through a middle man that separates you from the guilt of buying directly from the hatchery. MPC doesn't hatch them, they buy them from hatcheries and distributes them and so it makes people feel better about the purchase...but it doesn't change the source.

You seriously don't upset me but you do puzzle me with the logic behind your choices, as much as, I'm sure, our choices and logic puzzles you. Suffice to say, each will never understand each other because we are speaking different languages from the beginning.

What does puzzle me is how often people who eat chickens are challenged on the practice, when one rarely sees those who eat chickens challenging those who do not. It matters not a whit to us if you do not eat your birds, but it seems to matter very much to you if we _do_ eat ours. That's a complete mystery to me!

So, the real questions are these: Why does it bother you so much that not everyone is like you? So much that you question others in such a way as to make no mistake that you feel they are doing something wrong in your eyes. How would you react if that attitude was turned upon you and your choices in life? There are many things I find wrong about the choices you have made but should I question them? And to what end? Curiosity? Or is it to express my opinion under the guise of wanting to "understand" why you do what you do?


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## LittleWings (Jul 15, 2013)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect everyones. 

Bee, you have such a great attitude. Not just about chickens, but about life. I love the way you put it to words. I think people are losing touch with their basic instincts. IMO

I wish you would write a book. Do you have a blog?


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Thank you! I do not have a blog though many have requested that I write a book. So many books out there, though, and what would be one more? Though, I am seeing that many want information on all natural husbandry and are not finding it in the traditional chicken lore. 

I guess I just wouldn't know where to start....


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## kjohnstone (Mar 30, 2013)

Here's what I think (two cents please) ('cuz if I have to pay two cents...forget it) -- Whether you believe in a specific diety, are agnostic, atheist (but believe in spirit?) or complete atheist (disbelieve in spirit at all). Diety or evolution gave us meat teeth (canines and bicuspids), so eating meat is a natural part of our diet. Hard grains are not, we have to help our digestion by grinding them up. Did you know that within less than a day of being ground, 95 percent of the most important nutrients have broken down? When science realized that, we (as a nation at least) started "enriching" our flours to regain some of the nutrition, else a whole-grain flour is just bran and carbs. I could go on about that, but that's not the point. When mechanization of farms reduced the need for people to live and work them, the population moved from rural to urban. Corporate farms love that, and turned cheap (for them) massed-produced product. That meant unnatural fertilization and feeding (not about health or life, but about making big bugless mass plant product and animals as big and fat as possible with no concern to quality) Just as you are what you eat, let's say the chicken is what it eats - if it is eating unhealthy crap, then if you eat it, you are eating unhealthy crap. With GMO, example corn, which now grows it's own BT toxins, unhealthy crap. (One could argue that bacillus thurengiensis (sp) is a naturally occuring bacteria, and above caterpillers it's not infectious, that we are immune to the bacteria does not mean that we are immune to the toxin). Even if you eat correctly and vegetarian, you could still be eating crap. In the natural world, all things exist to be eaten, even if it is not until after death by "natural" causes. Regardless of your belief system or lack of one, an animal that has time to be stressed and afraid, will have an increase in adrenal activity, which will have a bad effect on the meat, and therefore on us. Treat it gently and kindly to the last moment and then be fast, if you believe in a diety, then thank that diety for allowing you to nourish yourself on one of its creations. If you believe in spirit (which you must if you believe in diety), then you must thank the animal, appreciate its sacrifice. If you are total atheist, at least don't be a [psycho/socio]path about it, just be kind and quick for logical reasons. Remember, if you don't eat it, something else will, even if it is just bacteria and worms. 
All flesh is grass.


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## Itsacutefuzzball (Mar 16, 2013)

Wow... I don't know who to quote here.... I wouldn't kill my chickens, unless they were suffering from something I couldn't help them get through. Even then it'd be hard, but I am young and have much to learn. If it came to that, I would eat the poor thing as to not let it go to waste. But even eating it would be hard. It would be hard, and I understand that. Especially when you've named them, and given them affection as pets. I understand that it would be hard. But sometimes you have to. Just my two cents worth. 
(Just my luck that I've never had to.)

This reply is based upon the posts about eating your own chickens.


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## kessy09 (Jun 16, 2013)

juiceasorus said:


> I really am not going to try and deter anyone from doing this, if thats your belief who am i to try and stop you? I just dont understand why it matters what is in your meat? That is pretty much the only main reason repeated in different words.


Seriously??? Why does it matter what is in your meat? Pretty much the only main reason? I'm not as respectful or eloquent as Bee or many of the others here, so here is my response to why that matters...DUH! Are you kidding that you have no idea why that is important??? LOL. OBVIOUSLY that is a hugely important reason, which is often why it is the first and most frequent reason given. No wonder you keep hearing it being repeated. It's because people are trying to get it through your head that it DOES matter. Stuffing your food with fecal soup and antibiotics prior to eating it sounds appetizing to me...NOT. I'm not sure how old you are, or the level of education you're bringing to the table here but for the love of all things beautiful please try to at least know your audience and present your argument in a far more informed and less ignorant way next time. From all that you have typed I just cannot take that kind if nonsense seriously. You sound stupid. Try a bit harder next time.

There. I am the a-hole. Now no one else has to be.


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

Bee said:


> That is often the case in many who question why we eat animals because they equate animal life with human life. It could explain why you are so confused in your thinking that, by rescuing chickens you are not contributing to the whole system of animal exploitation...sort of making up for it in some way, I guess. Those chickens did indeed come from a hatchery, were mutilated from the beginning, lived horrible lives and now you have them. You're just the last link in the chain, but you are in the chain.
> 
> Does it matter where you get your veggies and how they are grown? Do you care if they are loaded down with poisonous chemicals to keep the bugs off them, fertilized with human excrement, and harvested by very exploited, underpaid and unskilled labor and poorly washed, then treated with more chemicals to keep them fresh? If so, why?
> 
> ...


You are totally right Bee, i am asking you out of curiosity, i thought this what this website was for. I am not trying to question your logic or reasoning behind why you kill your chickens. And it DOES matter where my fruits and vegetables come from because they come out of my backyard and grandparent's. I guess you have brought a new light to my eyes i have never even seen. You want to know where your meat comes and i want to know where my veggies come  i understand your reasoning behind this choice, but i dont support it, that doesnt mean i will try and stop anyone, same as people who kill poultry arent going to make me kill mine.


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

kessy09 said:


> Seriously??? Why does it matter what is in your meat? Pretty much the only main reason? I'm not as respectful or eloquent as Bee or many of the others here, so here is my response to why that matters...DUH! Are you kidding that you have no idea why that is important??? LOL. OBVIOUSLY that is a hugely important reason, which is often why it is the first and most frequent reason given. No wonder you keep hearing it being repeated. It's because people are trying to get it through your head that it DOES matter. Stuffing your food with fecal soup and antibiotics prior to eating it sounds appetizing to me...NOT. I'm not sure how old you are, or the level of education you're bringing to the table here but for the love of all things beautiful please try to at least know your audience and present your argument in a far more informed and less ignorant way next time. From all that you have typed I just cannot take that kind if nonsense seriously. You sound stupid. Try a bit harder next time.
> 
> There. I am the a-hole. Now no one else has to be.


Thanks for giving me that butt-whooping, but i can tell you ever since i was old enough to understand a hamburger was a cow i was a vegetarian for life, you need not phrase your words... So "stupidly" thank you. This app was meant for learning and educating purposes, so my level of education about chickens isnt exactly a masters degree. My level of education about the real world is just dandy for your concerns.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Well said! It's the variety in this world that makes it so enjoyable and unique. Food choices are pretty sacred to many and the reasons why they eat what they eat are myriad, some important, some are not. 

Eating my chickens is as natural to me as you walking out your Granny's back door and picking a tomato to munch on. My chickens and I have a bond, of sorts, that one cannot form with a vegetable...we have an interdependence that is special to me and and far out reaches relationships between pet and owner.

With a pet and owner, there is one side depending upon the other for food and care, the other side gleans companionship in return. That seems to be satisfactory to many and they don't explore anything deeper than that, though some have a working relationship as well~as I do with my own dog, who helps guard my food supplies as part of his job.

My chickens depend on me to make right decisions on their care that will insure their lives here are stress free, healthy, and painless throughout their days. Each day is a good day here at my place....until the last day and that is over so quickly that it could barely register on the map of their lives. They live free lives, come and go as they please, eat what a chicken should, get the protection they deserve and their lives are managed in such a way that I do not allow one of the flock to compromise the health and contentment of the rest of the flock. Chickens only live in the present, so if each day is a good day, it's the only day...and that only day is a good life. 

In return, I get their companionship, their dependence upon me makes me feel needed, their beauty entrances me, their personalities provide me humor, I get to nurture them and this gives me a safe outlet for emotions. I get to eat their eggs daily and it's like partaking of a work of art that we have created together. 

In the end, I get to insure their deaths are quick and that they do not suffer, and then I honor my old friends by not wasting their flesh...they are enjoyed by me from the day they set foot on this land until the day they are consumed and utilized by every cell of my being. They lived strong and long, they lived contented and at peace, they got to just be a chicken all their lives and then they got to come to their end before they sicken or suffer. 

I can't imagine a better life and it gives me great satisfaction in being part of supplying that. In return, their flesh is greatly appreciated, not wasted to the city dump or the compost bin... but is treated with as much importance as their lives. 

Each day we got to be together, we talked to one another and formed comfortable patterns of existence living side by side and their lives nourished my own~just as my stewardship had nourished their own lives. We have a symbiotic relationship that most people could never understand. They trusted me in life and they trust me in death, my hand is there to comfort them as they pass from this life into death. It's a big responsibility that I take very seriously..even for a chicken. 

You really can't have all that with a carrot.


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## kessy09 (Jun 16, 2013)

Your level of education of the real world doesn't sound just dandy to me. It sounded ignorant, judgemental and argumentive. You failed to realize that even if there was only ONE reason to kill chickens (knowing where our food comes from) is a good enough reason in and of itself. On top of it, you didn't answer a single one of MY questions. I asked, out of curiosity, if we all stopped eating chicken, which is obvious what you'd like to have happen, where would they all go? How would we prevent overcrowding? How would we maintain quality of life? As a vegetarian, what are your solutions to the problems vegetarianism/veganism would create with the circle of life and food chain being so unnaturally and blatantly disturbed?


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

Bee said:


> Well said! It's the variety in this world that makes it so enjoyable and unique. Food choices are pretty sacred to many and the reasons why they eat what they eat are myriad, some important, some are not.
> 
> Eating my chickens is as natural to me as you walking out your Granny's back door and picking a tomato to munch on. My chickens and I have a bond, of sorts, that one cannot form with a vegetable...we have an interdependence that is special to me and and far out reaches relationships between pet and owner.
> 
> ...


Haha, sounds funny but i actually hate carrots! Probably why i wear glasses haha, the way you word each and everything is beautiful Bee, i thought having a relationship with an animal didnt have to end with me killing it intentionally, but i guess you live and you learn. Also a question, how long do you let your chickens live before there final days?


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

kessy09 said:


> Your level of education of the real world doesn't sound just dandy to me. It sounded ignorant, judgemental and argumentive. You failed to realize that even if there was only ONE reason to kill chickens (knowing where our food comes from) is a good enough reason in and of itself. On top of it, you didn't answer a single one of MY questions. I asked, out of curiosity, if we all stopped eating chicken, which is obvious what you'd like to have happen, where would they all go? How would we prevent overcrowding? How would we maintain quality of life? As a vegetarian, what are your solutions to the problems vegetarianism/veganism would create with the circle of life and food chain being so unnaturally and blatantly disturbed?


Okay listen, you are the one who has been trying to pick a fight with. I do NOT need to explain my masters degree in my particular specialty to people like you. You are being a hippocrit. Have you not been listening to the beautiful wording Bee has explained to me? Honestly, i dont have to explain my beliefs in being a vegetarian to you, i am a vegetarian because i hate even the thought of slaughter houses. My parents raised me this way showing me movies about inside the slaughter houses and what they do. As a vegetarian i certainly do not expect to walk into a barbecue and stop everyone and morph them into vegetarians for example. Not everyone is going to stop eating meat, and every what .00001 second a new animal is born into this world that will help keep the circle of life in check.


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

kessy09 said:


> Your level of education of the real world doesn't sound just dandy to me. It sounded ignorant, judgemental and argumentive. You failed to realize that even if there was only ONE reason to kill chickens (knowing where our food comes from) is a good enough reason in and of itself. On top of it, you didn't answer a single one of MY questions. I asked, out of curiosity, if we all stopped eating chicken, which is obvious what you'd like to have happen, where would they all go? How would we prevent overcrowding? How would we maintain quality of life? As a vegetarian, what are your solutions to the problems vegetarianism/veganism would create with the circle of life and food chain being so unnaturally and blatantly disturbed?


If people only killed for what they NEEDED slaughter houses would not need to be neccasary, therefore chicken breeding and mass production would be decreased immensly. I am not expecting people who like chicken have to own a flock of there own. But this is i think is a more humane and enjoyable experience if people who wanted meat, earned it. I think we as a dominant species of this world need to make some slight more adjustments to the things we do. Have you ever seen the packaged meat that says our chickens are pure free range and get all of the pleasures they want or something along the lines along that? Isnt sad that they have to say that, because most places never let those poor abused creatures see a drop of sunlight or freedom?

Please, does anyone else think this person is being a bit.. rude? I asked a question and asked anyone to piggyback on it. But i do not expect to get bullied on this site, absolutely not.


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## kjohnstone (Mar 30, 2013)

kessy09 said:


> Your level of education of the real world doesn't sound just dandy to me. It sounded ignorant, judgemental and argumentive. You failed to realize that even if there was only ONE reason to kill chickens (knowing where our food comes from) is a good enough reason in and of itself. On top of it, you didn't answer a single one of MY questions. I asked, out of curiosity, if we all stopped eating chicken, which is obvious what you'd like to have happen, where would they all go? How would we prevent overcrowding? How would we maintain quality of life? As a vegetarian, what are your solutions to the problems vegetarianism/veganism would create with the circle of life and food chain being so unnaturally and blatantly disturbed?


wow kessy09. I have read your posts, and you have crossed a line. I have been reading juiceasorus's posts for some time, and she is a lovely person. She does not have to justify herself to you, nor does she have to answer your questions. She is entitled to her point of view, I respect it and will defend it. In attempting to belittle her in a previous post in this thread, in attempting to express the idea that you are more intelligent than her, you lowered yourself to be beneath her. I believe she realizes that. If you can't play nice, just don't play.


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## kjohnstone (Mar 30, 2013)

p.s. - I never met a carrot I couldn't hate!


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

kjohnstone said:


> p.s. - I never met a carrot I couldn't hate!


Haha! Yes, i remember my parents used to cook me these huge carrots like 8 inches long and called them carrot logs


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

kjohnstone said:


> wow kessy09. I have read your posts, and you have crossed a line. I have been reading juiceasorus's posts for some time, and she is a lovely person. She does not have to justify herself to you, nor does she have to answer your questions. She is entitled to her point of view, I respect it and will defend it. In attempting to belittle her in a previous post in this thread, in attempting to express the idea that you are more intelligent than her, you lowered yourself to be beneath her. I believe she realizes that. If you can't play nice, just don't play.


Thank you so much that means a lot!


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## blblanchard (Mar 12, 2013)

The reason I butcher my own chickens is because I don't want to support major corporations who treat their chickens terribly.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

juiceasorus said:


> Haha, sounds funny but i actually hate carrots! Probably why i wear glasses haha, the way you word each and everything is beautiful Bee, i thought having a relationship with an animal didnt have to end with me killing it intentionally, but i guess you live and you learn. Also a question, how long do you let your chickens live before there final days?


That depends on their purpose in the flock, if they will need to be culled due to non laying or non-thrift. I cull each year, if necessary, for all who are not laying steadily in peak laying season. This is a flock management strategy that insures that birds are not suffering from laying issues before they have to be killed and it also seems to also eliminate those birds that would ordinarily carry illness or parasites.

This keeps the rest of the flock at peak health and performance. After the first year I let their performance slack off accordingly so that I expect laying at least every other day in peak season. Right now, as I taper off of having birds at all, I've let some old retirees get by with even less than that but this fall will come a cull to prevent any health issues due to old age.

Two of my 6 yr old gals will be killed this fall due to old age problems that could lead to laying issues and a painful death...they are worth more to me than that, so I will end them when they are still healthy and thriving.

Meat chickens are kept for about 11-12 wks but could be kept longer...in the end, it's just kind of cruel to keep them into maturity because they get too heavy to compete for food and forage enough for their needs. While they are here, though, they have a primo life of foraging, freedom, full mobility, slower growth to insure maximum health and comfort. I like them..they have sweet personalities and are kind of moochy.

I don't light my birds in the winter, allowing a normal slow down and I don't force proteins during slack times in the year because they need those as well. As a result, I have birds who are 6 yrs old in my flock who are still putting eggs in the nest in peak laying season 5 days out of 7. I currently have 4 six year old hens, one six year old rooster, 4 four year old hens and 4 four month old hens...who will live a long life here if they continue to be healthy and perform well.

I've had even older hens who still lay every day or every other day in peak laying season. It all comes down to breeds kept and management whether you will spend a long time with your birds or a short,stress filled time. Their quality of life is exceptional, they have the freedom to free range at all times, they aren't fussed over and handled by the humans, they are provided with a good coop habitat and sleeping roosts. They've got the life of Reilly!

Me and my birds? We like a long friendship.


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

Bee said:


> That depends on their purpose in the flock, if they will need to be culled due to non laying or non-thrift. I cull each year, if necessary, for all who are not laying steadily in peak laying season. This is a flock management strategy that insures that birds are not suffering from laying issues before they have to be killed and it also seems to also eliminate those birds that would ordinarily carry illness or parasites.
> 
> This keeps the rest of the flock at peak health and performance. After the first year I let their performance slack off accordingly so that I expect laying at least every other day in peak season. Right now, as I taper off of having birds at all, I've let some old retirees get by with even less than that but this fall will come a cull to prevent any health issues due to old age.
> 
> ...


Awww, i thought people usually killed them MUCH faster than that so they dont even get to enjoy the quality of life


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Some do. Some don't. Some keep their birds in tiny dollhouse coops and tiny runs and if they feed them a lot of expensive foods and treats, pet them a lot, give them meds to cover all the mistakes, then they feel that is a quality life. I beg to differ.

I've spent enough time around chickens to know what equates quality in their world and that ain't it. Quality is freedom to stretch out and be a chicken on the grass and in the woods, not having to fear the family dog is going to rip off your feathers or chase you until you drop, not being handled all the time by humans, not being dosed with some medicinal cocktail every time it pleases them to feel like a vet, not worrying about predators, not living in tiny, airless coops, and not having to suffer a long and painful death because someone "loves" them too much to give them mercy. 

A quality life is not measured in how many years they live but how well they are allowed live in those years. Every day is the only day to a chicken, so it matters not if they have many days or just a few, if all their days are spent in confined misery.


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

Bee said:


> Some do. Some don't. Some keep their birds in tiny dollhouse coops and tiny runs and if they feed them a lot of expensive foods and treats, pet them a lot, give them meds to cover all the mistakes, then they feel that is a quality life. I beg to differ.
> 
> I've spent enough time around chickens to know what equates quality in their world and that ain't it. Quality is freedom to stretch out and be a chicken on the grass and in the woods, not having to fear the family dog is going to rip off your feathers or chase you until you drop, not being handled all the time by humans, not being dosed with some medicinal cocktail every time it pleases them to feel like a vet, not worrying about predators, not living in tiny, airless coops, and not having to suffer a long and painful death because someone "loves" them too much to give them mercy.
> 
> A quality life is not measured in how many years they live but how well they are allowed live in those years. Every day is the only day to a chicken, so it matters not if they have many days or just a few, if all their days are spent in confined misery.


Wow, how long have you had chickens just of curiosity


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Since I was 10 years old...off and on, mostly on, for the past 37 years. And my mother before me and my granny before that. The women in our family are the flock keepers. We sort of like chickens, you could say.


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

Bee said:


> Since I was 10 years old...off and on, mostly on, for the past 37 years. And my mother before me and my granny before that. The women in our family are the flock keepers. We sort of like chickens, you could say.


Haha, hopefully i can start a generation like that. On an unrelated topic do you have any other animals besides chickens? (its okay if you dont feel comfortable answering any of my random questions  )


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## kessy09 (Jun 16, 2013)

Right. So, it's only ok to belittle beliefs, make assumptions, and ask questions out of curiosity when you are a vegetarian. Why is it ok for juicy-whatever to ask questions on how could people do something so horrible as slaughter chickens but not ok for me to ask what would we do with the chicken's otherwise? Just because someone is a regular on this forum doesn't mean a thing to me. She created an argumentative thread, oozing with a disdain, then, when she got negative feedback, tried to cover it up with "I was just curious, I just asked just for educational purposes." If you're going to attempt to shame people for what they are eating, at least stand by your convictions. And please don't pull the "bully" card with me. There wasn't a lick of bullying in what I was saying. Clearly you've either never been bullied, or been in a heated debate before. Too many people these days cry BULLY just because someone is calling them out, disagreeing with them or generally saying something they don't like. No wonder the kids who are ACTUALLY needing help aren't receiving it because of all the masses of wolf-criers in the world. I said it in my first post, I'm not eloquent or respectful like Bee, and I ended my first post with it too, I'm the a-hole here. You're not telling me anything new. I just have zero tolerance for "Juicy's" type of disregard and self-righteousness. I don't care what kind of made up master's degree in whatever fake specialty you have. You could be the princess of rainbows and ride a unicorn to work everyday for all I give a hoot about. The point of me bringing education into this was because your post reeked of ignorance and disgust with the group of people you were trying to address. I'll say it again, it was a stupid way to bring it up and it was offensive.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

juiceasorus said:


> Haha, hopefully i can start a generation like that. On an unrelated topic do you have any other animals besides chickens? (its okay if you dont feel comfortable answering any of my random questions  )


I've had many kinds of animals in the past but currently just have a small flock of the birds, a dog and a cat.

Just out of curiosity, why do you ask?


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## Itsacutefuzzball (Mar 16, 2013)

kessy09 said:


> Right. So, it's only ok to belittle beliefs, make assumptions, and ask questions out of curiosity when you are a vegetarian. Why is it ok for juicy-whatever to ask questions on how could people do something so horrible as slaughter chickens but not ok for me to ask what would we do with the chicken's otherwise? Just because someone is a regular on this forum doesn't mean a thing to me. She created an argumentative thread, oozing with a disdain, then, when she got negative feedback, tried to cover it up with "I was just curious, I just asked just for educational purposes." If you're going to attempt to shame people for what they are eating, at least stand by your convictions. And please don't pull the "bully" card with me. There wasn't a lick of bullying in what I was saying. Clearly you've either never been bullied, or been in a heated debate before. Too many people these days cry BULLY just because someone is calling them out, disagreeing with them or generally saying something they don't like. No wonder the kids who are ACTUALLY needing help aren't receiving it because of all the masses of wolf-criers in the world. I said it in my first post, I'm not eloquent or respectful like Bee, and I ended my first post with it too, I'm the a-hole here. You're not telling me anything new. I just have zero tolerance for "Juicy's" type of disregard and self-righteousness. I don't care what kind of made up master's degree in whatever fake specialty you have. You could be the princess of rainbows and ride a unicorn to work everyday for all I give a hoot about. The point of me bringing education into this was because your post reeked of ignorance and disgust with the group of people you were trying to address. I'll say it again, it was a stupid way to bring it up and it was offensive.


Wow just wow. I am not going to cry bully, but bear with me anyways. 
I think that this argument is dumb and pointless. There I said it. You should all just stop. Make peace. I don't want this to turn into a ReTIRED situation. I quote you because you were the last post in the argument. You stated that you were going to be rude, and nobody had to read your post. So you and Juicy should stop. Just my two cents worth.


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## kessy09 (Jun 16, 2013)

That's fine. I can stop- I see that it is making others uncomfortable. I don't feel like there is anything wrong with a heated argument, especially when when two opposing sides so vehemently disagree. But, I acknowledge that a lot of people would prefer things to just stay easygoing.

For the record, if we don't want debates or "lines to be crossed" then we should not start such controversial topics to begin with. 

Ps-I'm not sure what you're referring to about ReTIRED. I just know I like his posts and now he's gone gone gone.


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## birdguy (Jan 15, 2013)

Okay I'm bored and seen this post. I have personally never killed a chicken before BUT in reality the only reason I would kill one would be if I tried my all time hardest to fix the problem etc. I'm fifteen now and in Germany my family does kill many chickens, I don't they do sometimes it's good and sometimes not.. I see it as, if you have an overweight chicken that can only gain weight or some form of poultry, if its like an overweight turkey and it can't walk then I would consider killing him technically in my mind its less hurtful to him.. Moral try your all Time hardest to fix the problem unless you get them for a reason  and ps ill be honest I didn't read the whole discussion but that's what I got from it


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

Itsacutefuzzball said:


> Wow just wow. I am not going to cry bully, but bear with me anyways.
> I think that this argument is dumb and pointless. There I said it. You should all just stop. Make peace. I don't want this to turn into a ReTIRED situation. I quote you because you were the last post in the argument. You stated that you were going to be rude, and nobody had to read your post. So you and Juicy should stop. Just my two cents worth.


Honestly, i did not start a "heated arugument" i asked a question... The whole reason it started was because i wanted to know what got people up in the morning to go kill a chicken. Most people answered in beautiful ways and just cause the meat, but then there was that guy.

-please do not quote my name in a rude manner it may sound funny and mean nothing to you but it has very deep value and shall always remind me of my dad calling me this. R.I.P.


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

Bee said:


> I've had many kinds of animals in the past but currently just have a small flock of the birds, a dog and a cat.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, why do you ask?


Just wanting to start a new subject didnt go over to well with a few peeps on here eeek! And also wanted to know if anyone here has a dwarf hamster haha, been considering getting one. And ALSO wanted to know if you have duckies


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## kessy09 (Jun 16, 2013)

-please do not quote my name in a rude manner it may sound funny and mean nothing to you but it has very deep value and shall always remind me of my dad calling me this. R.I.P.

I had no intentions of being rude about your name. I was in fact, not being rude about that part at all. I used "juicy-whatever" the first time because I didn't want to delete what I had written, go back out, just to see what your full screen name was. I used "Juicy" the second time for the same reason. I didn't pay attention to your full screen name, because I was so upset with what you had written. I just knew that it started with "juicy." Trust me, I can admit when I am being rude, and that was not my intent with the name. That was nothing personal. You just took every thing about my posts as an attack instead of actually reading them and trying to see my point.

And yes, vegetarianism/meat-eating is a controversial topic in any crowd. Whether you intended to or not, it WILL start a debate no matter where you bring it up, especially when you bring it up the way you did (how oh how can you people DO this??? And for such non-good reasons???).


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## Itsacutefuzzball (Mar 16, 2013)

juiceasorus said:


> Honestly, i did not start a "heated arugument" i asked a question... The whole reason it started was because i wanted to know what got people up in the morning to go kill a chicken. Most people answered in beautiful ways and just cause the meat, but then there was that guy.
> 
> -please do not quote my name in a rude manner it may sound funny and mean nothing to you but it has very deep value and shall always remind me of my dad calling me this. R.I.P.


I didn't mean to offend anyone. I sincerely apologize if I did.
And kessey, HennyPenny can tell you about the whole ReTIRED thing.


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## TNchick (Jun 26, 2013)

Well this thread went around the world. Just my thoughts on the main questions. 
First bee...I knew I wanted to raise chickens for all the same reasons u listed however not knowing much about them we picked them out at the local feed store in the spring. They were in a big heated open topped display. Divided by plastic walls. There were posters hanging beside the big bin with pictures of full grown chickens and prices. There was little info there and I was confused by terms like straight run and pullet and sex link and bantam. So we picked them based on what we thought we learned from the posters and cuteness. So I had no idea what we had until I studied and they grew.
Also my second batch of chicks I bought from murray mcmurray as an assortment of standard size birds. So this was just part of the fun. Wanting different breeds than they would have at the feed store and now not caring about the sex because ive learned to process for meat. 
Now back to juicesaurus question about slaughtering. Well I call it processing. First because its just a part of the process. When I bought the babes I really wanted eggs. But my inexperience led me to buy cornish x birds who are only really meant for meat. As they grew super big and hassled and panted in the heat I realized there was no way around it. If I didnt process them they would only suffer. I read horror stories about them being so big they would break their legs and not be able to move. It was hard for me because these were the friendliest sweetest birds of all the flock. Also they were very pretty white fluffly things that cooed at me and played with my shoe strings. Ive also never been a hunter and this was the first time I killed anything on purpose. I researched it well and theres another thread about that in the meat bird section. It was the most humane thing to do for these birds. I struggled with it until I did the first one. Something inside takes over and not being a vegetarian myself I had a new sense of providing for my own kids and family. 
I know my birds are treated well. They are fed healthy diets and get to roam and act like chickens. My kids dote on them as much as possible and they are endlessly entertaining. As much as the kids love them and went through all the emotions of losing a favorite critter they had no problem enjoying the meals they have made. 
We live in the country and maybe that makes a difference. Things are just a little different here. If I had my way we would raise all of our own meat and veggies but since I dont have a farm, I do what I can.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

> And yes, vegetarianism/meat-eating is a controversial topic in any crowd. Whether you intended to or not, it WILL start a debate no matter where you bring it up, especially when you bring it up the way you did * (how oh how can you people DO* *this??? And for such non-good reasons???)*.


I agree with this statement and can understand Kessy's frustration on it all, as I have been asked this over and over and see others having been asked the same...and in that exact same manner.

As if to imply that those who kill their chickens for food lack compassion and are just bloody, no good murderers slashing through their flocks for no sane reason.

Another passive aggressive approach is this one, " I respect what you are doing but I could NEVER do it...I'm just too soft-hearted!". Of course, the implication here is that only the hard-hearted people could ever do such a thing and the very compassionate people would NEVER do it.

I see these types of questions as a sign of guilt over their actually eating chicken and other meats without taking responsibility for it, so they must deflect the situation and place blame on others who do the killing. Sort of like a small child that hides their own eyes so that no one can find them.

Juiceasaurus, at least, doesn't hold a chicken McNugget in one hand and condemn those who kill and eat chickens with the other, but the condemnation, though lacking hypocrisy, is there all the same in the tone and tenor of the question, with the addition of "for no good reason".

The simple fact of the matter is this...meat is a valuable source of protein, vitamins, fats and B12, all being essential to good health. God has given us these animals for eating and those of us who recognize His sovereignty in this world take this as having His full blessings on using this source of nutrition. No amount of guilt throwing or passive aggressive bashing of the practice will ever sway anyone who is firmly grounded in their faith.

For those who just love the taste of meat, leaving faith out of it, no amount of guilting them will sway them either....meat, it's what's for dinner. So passive aggressive attempts to belittle, shame or insult those who eat their own chickens is a rocky path to take and one who takes it better be prepared for the backlash of it all...or choose simply to shut their mouths and keep their disapproval to themselves.

Those who dare, should do so knowing that they will meet with active aggression to their passive aggression and be prepared to deal with it, take their licking and go on.


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes, i know that some people may be VERY defensive of the things they do and people judging them by it. I do not judge people by the beliefs they choose to believe. I judge people by their actions, and when someone on this forum has to be very inconsiderate and very harsh on the subject it leads me to believe they need to ignored. People you say get angry when people ask them why do you kill your chickens? I get angry when people ask me why i am a vegetarian, i do it for MANY obvious reasons and just have the willpower to do it. Doesnt mean i dont enjoy a few unhealthy snacks.. Some chippies if you know what i mean haha.


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## kessy09 (Jun 16, 2013)

So if you get angry when people ask you why you are a vegetarian, why would you think it's ok to ask people why they eat their own meat? You make no sense. You keep contradicting everything you do/say. 

1) you adopt from the shelter but have no issues dropping a dog off there (thus contributing to the problem) when he does something you don't like (instead of training him)

2) you don't buy chickens from hatcheries because hatcheries are horrible and you don't support them but you will buy ducks from them

3) you don't like it when people ask you why you are a vegetarian but you think it's ok to question why people eat home raised meat

4) you ask a lot of questions but then refuse to put any thought into or answer those that are asked of you, in fact, you get downright angry when someone dares to question you

5) you were the first one to belittle the belief in God. That because you don't believe-its not a good enough reason to eat meat

6) you continue to collect all these animals, without proper thought or consideration into the necessities. In the long run, they're all ending up hurt or maimed or lost but yet because you don't eat them, you think you are giving them the better life (to date I've seen two cats, a dog, five chicks and a flock of previous chickens either killed, hurt or returned to where they came from). 

7) you can dish it out but sure can't take it.

All of the above leads me to believe that you are in fact, a teenager. I was your way once too. Trust me, there will be plenty of more people you meet in life like me. Telling you things you don't want to hear, being down right harsh, and you will HAVE to deal with them. There is no ignore button in real life. Like when you are in university and your professor says to you, "I've read your paper. You sound like a total moron who has no idea what you are talking about. I will give you until tomorrow to come up with something better." So instead of CONTINUING to spout of the same nonsense, you go home, take his criticism to heart, and come back to the table with something smarter, more informed and less moronic sounding. It's life. Appreciate the people who tell you the truth about yourself, there are too many in the world who sugar coat things and will just let you make an ass of yourself in fear of hurting your feelings. Now, with the mystery of your ignorance solved, I am done with this conversation 110% because I don't fight with kids.


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## birdguy (Jan 15, 2013)

What happened to RETIRED


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

kessy09 said:


> So if you get angry when people ask you why you are a vegetarian, why would you think it's ok to ask people why they eat their own meat? You make no sense. You keep contradicting everything you do/say.
> 
> 1) you adopt from the shelter but have no issues dropping a dog off there (thus contributing to the problem) when he does something you don't like (instead of training him)
> 
> ...


Okay lets clear this up answering all of your questions

1.) I personally OWN an animal shelter thank you i will not tell you which one because that kind of information on here scares me

2.) i did not buy ducks from a hatchery, i was going to then order got cancelled... So i adopted them

3.) i think its fine when people ask me why am i a vegetarian, i am trying to relate to you people and show them that your not the only one who has problems!

4.) yes i ask a lot of questions, because this is what life is about..,learning!

5.) i did not sat i dont believe in god which is why i dont believe in killing chickens

6.) those cats were WILD not mine personally, the dog i still have and am learning to love again because i couldnt tear her apart when i saw the tears in my familys eyes when i told them, yes sadly 5 chicks were murdered... But you murder older chickens every day! And my older flock was killed by a fishercat not my fault!! I didnt even know these things were around! We had our chickens for a year with no problems, and i have not given up ONE of my chickens so far :/

7.) i am not "dishing it out" please you just need to STOP because 1.) i shouldnt have to take it on a chicken app and 2.) why are YOU dishing it out?

I am not going to tell you my age because i dont feel comfortable with this, but i can take this as a compliment you think i am a teenager, it may seem immature to you, but if asking questions wasnt a part of this world, i would quite frankly be bored. And are you REALLY bringing up the whole thing about being smarter than me? Honestly i am deleting this app because of you, nice going are you FINALLY happy now?!


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## MamaHen (Apr 15, 2013)

birdguy said:


> What happened to RETIRED


Good question! I think he left when people didn't agree with him  Or he got booted off...?


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

juiceasorus said:


> Bee, im just wondering about this and to all the other people that do this feel free to build upon this.... How oh how do you look a chicken in the eye and know your going to butcher it. Honestly, i totally respect what you believe in and i am not going to even try to stop anyone, but i just want to know why you guys go through the trouble of raising chicks up frim little babies to slaughter them? Sure you can tell what they eat.. And where your meat comes from.. But i could not even imagine that. Taking a life away from a living thing for basically not a whole bunch of good reasons. (im a vegetarian) so i do not believe in slaughter houses either. I love my chickens like i do dogs, and every time one dissapears or dies i cry for days, so i guess my question is whats the point of doing this?


i would like to put my 2 cents worth in here
i don't buy that nasty stuff that they sell off as chicken in the stores...YUCK 
i want chicken not mush
once i had a quality farm raised chicken that ate more grass then feed in it's life 
i found out what real chicken was. i'm talking nice firm (but not tough) meat little or no fat at all, & to top it all off plenty of flavor. 
i also hatch out a good amount of baby chicks
i never feed my birds medicated feed!
they were hatched rite here at my house
instead of being shipped if from some far off state
all stressed out & 1/2 dead 
i sex my birds at about 8 weeks old
i sell off the pullets to cover my feed bill for the year
the cockerels mostly get fattened up & head to camp
however some do get a chance to become someones rooster at their place. 
it's sort of like the young fella winning the lottery
he was all set to meet the "national razor" when someone says
"hey i should probably have a boy to look out for my laying flock don't you think?" 
if they are already buying pullets then i just give them a cockerel for free. 
if not i only ask for 5 bucks.

i woud only add 1 more thing
my wife has a pet cat
it sleeps on our bed & is a pet
our chickens are farm animals
they don't have names
we feed,water, & provide them a clean dry building to sleep in.
but they are NOT pets
& never will be 
so going out to process a rooster to me is much like 
pulling up a row of onions that are growing in the garden
it's their time.

piglett


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

Bee said:


> Thank you! I do not have a blog though many have requested that I write a book. So many books out there, though, and what would be one more? Though, I am seeing that many want information on all natural husbandry and are not finding it in the traditional chicken lore.
> 
> I guess I just wouldn't know where to start....


Bee i think we need to send you to washington Dc to straighten things out
think about all that nice green grass your flock would have to eat of you lived in the white house. i myself feel a few ducks could be put to good use too there. we already have WAY too many turkeys in the nations capital so no need to add any more

piglett


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Yer too funny! That would be like the Beverly Hillbillies go to the White House..LOLOL 

On a side note, I do name my chickens if they have distinguished themselves among the flock. I like my meat to have a name, when possible, so that it's all the more tasty to me and I can evaluate Barbara Ann's meat flavor and texture against Moby Dick's. 

I will be butchering Big Bertha, Middle Sister and maybe Ginny this fall and will be viewing them not only as meat, but as the individuals they are to me~I've known them for many years now. 

I don't really like to eat generic meat, though it happens with the CX because they're so many and all look alike. I like to KNOW my meat on a personal level, how they lived, what kind of bird they were and how well she/he did down through the years. I love them from the time they are chicks until the time they are soup and naming them is all part and parcel to that process. I have a great respect for many of my animals and you can tell those for whom I have no respect at all...sometimes those I won't bother to even eat but will let the wild animals have them after they have been killed. 

A lot of people claim a mean rooster or hen taste the best but I believe just the opposite...there is no sweeter meat than that from a sweet roo or hen. I have fond memories of their lives and our relationship as I eat the meat and it makes it that much better.


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## kjohnstone (Mar 30, 2013)

MamaHen said:


> Good question! I think he left when people didn't agree with him  Or he got booted off...?


banned....


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## kjohnstone (Mar 30, 2013)

It's been a long time since I've seen the BBC series "Hitch Hickers Guide to the Galaxy", but I am reminded of the episodes set at the "Restaurant at the end of the Galaxy". The series was chock full of the absurdities of the human condition. Before they ordered their meal, I believe they inquired about the dish of the day, and the live creature was brought to them to describe his merits. How flavorful he was, how the different parts of him tasted, how he had been fed, how he had been bred for this purpose and it was his reason for living...for example he recommended his liver, because he had been force-feeding himself for weeks and his liver was nice and fat and flavorful... and (what was his name...was it Alan Dent?...the sole earthling caught up this adventure) said "I can't eat You" to which the dish asked why not, and the answer from Dent was something to the effect I can't eat something that wants to be eaten. The answer to that was "So you would rather eat something that doesn't want to be eaten?"


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## rooless (Jun 10, 2013)

Had to go back to the original question to remember what this post is about. I have nine roosters, black leghorns. I've never processed chickens before and have only had them for a couple of years. My question would be, are leghorns even worth processing? They are about 16 weeks old. They were supposed to be pullets, that's why I have so many roosters. I can take them to my feed store in town and they will sell them, cheap, cheap, cheap or I can process them. Is it worth it? There is so little meat on them. It would take all nine to make a meal and then some probably. (My husband doubted they were roosters, but their starting to crow. )


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Depends on if you will get as much at the feed store as the feed you have fed...if you break even, good enough. If you will go in the hole, eat them~you can't buy chicken in the store as good as what will be on those birds. 

With skinny birds it's fairly simple to process them without doing the full monty....just peel back their hides until you can remove the biggest parts of the meat~much like one does for game birds. No need to even gut them unless you want the carcass and organs for stock.


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## GenFoe (Apr 3, 2013)

I just lost my favorite hen. Her name was olive. She was my only dark brahma hen out of 4 that we bought. Even though she would have had the most meat on her I couldn't eat her. We buried her. I have no issue eating the roosters, and have eaten some of the other hens as well. I just made her too much of a pet to be able to eat her. :-/


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## chicalot (Jun 5, 2013)

Where the heck would the extra roosters go if not eaten! When I decided to get chickens this Spring that was one of my first discussions with my husband. He knows how soft I am and let me know real quick what to expect. I bought a straight run of 6 EEs locally and ended up with 5 roosters. They were too young to sex. Nobody around here needs roosters. Its of no concern because I was prepared for what needs to happen. They have been a huge source of good times this spring and summer but I want to make room for more hens. I told my husband to thank them and be swift. If Ms. Gertrude poopy bottom doesn't straighten up soon she might be next.. that'll be a little sad.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Maybe there is a no kill shelter for roosters somewhere and you can drop them off to live out their days in happy serenity...even better if it is located near an HOA neighborhood. 

Just think of it! Thousands of roosters strutting and crowing out their lives at a place called Serenity Acres where no animals are ever used for food....oh, the bliss of it all! The roosters are vegetarian too, so no bugs or worms will ever be harmed at Serenity Acres either! 

I get rainbows and unicorns dancing in my mind just thinking of all that love and wonderfulness!!!!


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## chicalot (Jun 5, 2013)

Ha! I get visions but no.. not seeing those rainbows and unicorns! Lol


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

rooless said:


> Had to go back to the original question to remember what this post is about. I have nine roosters, black leghorns. I've never processed chickens before and have only had them for a couple of years. My question would be, are leghorns even worth processing? They are about 16 weeks old. They were supposed to be pullets, that's why I have so many roosters. I can take them to my feed store in town and they will sell them, cheap, cheap, cheap or I can process them. Is it worth it? There is so little meat on them. It would take all nine to make a meal and then some probably. (My husband doubted they were roosters, but their starting to crow. )


 i put my extra roosters in a different coop & put the finisher feed to them
helps put some meat on their bones. 16 weeks is still too young
min. 20 weeks, about 24 & you will really have something.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

Laugh if you will but there is at least one farm rescue here that does indeed take in roosters! They always have too many and are desperate for adopters (and hey I wouldn't be against adopting one if I lived somewhere where roosters were uhm... not considered noise pollution...) That being said that's not at all what I was intending to post. It's just a weird side note.

Anywho... As well as all the health reasons stated before I slaughter extras for the simple reason that I like knowing where my meat comes from. I like to know they had a good life... got to eat grass and bugs and see sunshine and weren't raised in a battery cage with half their beak burned off. Life is sacred, chicken or elsewise, and should be treated as such. In honor of the critters that end up on my plate I try not to waste any bit of them that I know can be used. I cannot say the same of industrial farming which raises en masse in the cheapest (and usually most disgusting) way possible before slaughtering the fattest and sending it to a market where there's a very strong possibility no one will buy or eat any of the carcass! That is not valuing the sanctity of life... that is using it for greed and gluttony. Is it hard to slaughter chickens? The first time was, probably the second too... I mean, it is a life, and you are taking it and you should never forget that but there are a lot of things that are unpleasant to deal with. That's just the way the world works. 

I do believe we as a people eat a way lot of meat these days. I mean meat in a sandwich at lunch and again for dinner every day of the week?? I'm pretty sure my grandmother didn't eat like that! Could have never afforded it! I respect vegetarians for their choices, and honestly I am almost there being rather meated out since cooking for my boyfriend for three years who eats exactly like I just described (I wasn't raised that way - meat for dinner every two or three days, OK, any more than that and I get sooo sick of it!) 

Well anyway there it is. If you're going to eat meat I think it's better to be in touch with the realities of it. If you're not going to eat meat you should be in touch with the reality that animals will be used at your expense no matter what you do in life (for instance every vaccine and medication you ever take was tested on lab animals who probably suffered a great deal and in that sense a rat is no different than a chicken or cow. It's alive and we used it because of that and there's nothing you can do as an individual to change that past.) All and all there are seats at my table for anyone, regardless of their eating habits.


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## Chippets (Jun 8, 2013)

rooless said:


> Had to go back to the original question to remember what this post is about. .


Yeah! I was surprised at the tangent this thread went off on! I can't believe how much my Roo has changed since that first post!


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## hennypenny68 (Apr 30, 2013)

Yes it is amazing how a thread can twisted or lost in a conversation. I would just like to say we all have our own way of dealing with every day issues to eat meat or to not that is totally up to the individual and sometimes others don't always agree but when we start to loose control of the conversation that's when we need to stop take a step back and just except what has happened and get on with what we actually started talking about. This sight is for the young and the elderly it is a place were the most experience can help the newbies or young ones out or maybe with what I would like to say are some pretty interesting questions lol with out being judge ridiculed or even at time threatening I'm not mentioning names here. So come on all fellow chickeneers my new pet name by the way  let all come together and help one another there's already enough hate and distruction in the world lets not brining it on here k so kiss up you guys and call it done cause really life is to short for that **** and yes I did say **** to go on here love u guys keep it going on.


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## juiceasorus (Aug 14, 2013)

WeeLittleChicken said:


> Laugh if you will but there is at least one farm rescue here that does indeed take in roosters! They always have too many and are desperate for adopters (and hey I wouldn't be against adopting one if I lived somewhere where roosters were uhm... not considered noise pollution...) That being said that's not at all what I was intending to post. It's just a weird side note.
> 
> Anywho... As well as all the health reasons stated before I slaughter extras for the simple reason that I like knowing where my meat comes from. I like to know they had a good life... got to eat grass and bugs and see sunshine and weren't raised in a battery cage with half their beak burned off. Life is sacred, chicken or elsewise, and should be treated as such. In honor of the critters that end up on my plate I try not to waste any bit of them that I know can be used. I cannot say the same of industrial farming which raises en masse in the cheapest (and usually most disgusting) way possible before slaughtering the fattest and sending it to a market where there's a very strong possibility no one will buy or eat any of the carcass! That is not valuing the sanctity of life... that is using it for greed and gluttony. Is it hard to slaughter chickens? The first time was, probably the second too... I mean, it is a life, and you are taking it and you should never forget that but there are a lot of things that are unpleasant to deal with. That's just the way the world works.
> 
> ...


Yes, when i went to adopt my ducks they had a chicken room and about four rooms they called the bachelor rooms! They were never killed because of too many tho! So yes you guys can definetly imagine this.


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## GenFoe (Apr 3, 2013)

I have one of the extra roosters in the crockpot right now. He's going to be chicken pot pie for dinner tonight. I appreciate the hormone and antibiotic free meat for my family. As well as the very happy, healthy and truly free range life we gave him here.


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## rooless (Jun 10, 2013)

piglett said:


> i put my extra roosters in a different coop & put the finisher feed to them
> helps put some meat on their bones. 16 weeks is still too young
> min. 20 weeks, about 24 & you will really have something.


I went to the feed store and they gave me laying hen feed. Is that finisher? My husband is not keen on butchering them. He doesn't want to go to the bother if they don't provide much meat. Maybe I could do it while he is at work. Is it hard to do? I've never done it before but I'm willing to learn. (Truth be know I think he's getting soft in his old age. I have to give the dogs their shots because he can't) Lol.


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

rooless said:


> I went to the feed store and they gave me laying hen feed. Is that finisher? My husband is not keen on butchering them. He doesn't want to go to the bother if they don't provide much meat. Maybe I could do it while he is at work. Is it hard to do? I've never done it before but I'm willing to learn. (Truth be know I think he's getting soft in his old age. I have to give the dogs their shots because he can't) Lol.


NO laying pellets is for laying hens
finisher is for finishing meat birds so they have some size to them.
i like to process my buff orpingtons at 20 to 24 weeks.

check out youtube there are a couple vids on there that will help you understand how to process those roosters. we skin ours unless we plan on roasting them in which case we pluck which is a pain in the you know what.


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