# Snakebite!!!



## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

3-4 days ago my dog was limping. Then his leg swelled up. Then it swelled up worse, and his foot swelled up. Yesterday we realize that it is a snakebite because his bandage has 2 blood marks when we change it and sure enough there are 2 holes.

So we've been doing a lot of reading to see what you're supposed to do when it's 3-4 days post bite.

We ran out and got Benedryl, which is really recommended. 1 mg per pound.

Antivenin is only good if given within hours.
We keep him from moving around too much.

We Stopped giving him aspirin because of the bleeding. We're giving him Motrin at 4 mg. per pound, every 8 hours.

No rubbing, squeezing, or cold packs. Some say cold packs are good. But the physiology behind not giving it is more important. Cold makes fluids retract from an area. It would be like pushing the venom into the blood stream faster. 

It appears that Florida has 2 types of snake categories. One is pit viper which as I understand it covers rattlers, moccasins, cotton mouths, etc. The other is non poisonous. 

He was bit in the leg. Most dogs get bit in the face or neck. 

We've lived on this property for 9 years and have never seen more than a black snake. But then again I've never had raccoons bother me until this year. It's kind of odd I guess that a snake would be in an area that the dogs have occupied for 9 years (fenced area). You would think they would avoid it. 

He's eating and drinking . The Benedryl last night seems to be lessening the swelling.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Sorry to hear that Karen. I hope he'll be okay. Watch for necrosis at the bite site and any drooling. The benedryl is an antihistamine that will prevent inflammation or closing of the windpipe so he'll be able to breathe normally.
How wide apart are the bite marks? That will give us an idea how big the snake was.


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## Alaskan (Aug 22, 2015)

In general, snake bites from clear fang marks is good (since that means it wasn't a coral snake, and their venom is more toxic).

It is impressively painful and uncomfortable, but since he is now at 4 days after, it should all be uphill from here.

Mostly make sure nothing nasty happens at the wound (infection, or necrosis), so keep it clean, and keep an eye on it.

Take a deep breath....

As a kid our ranch dog got bit in the mouth by a rattler. He was in horrid pain for about a week, but then the swelling went down and he was fine.

He only lost the one tooth closest to the bite.... Or was it two? Hummmm.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Per my vet, ibuprofen is toxic to dogs. 

Our Leon Redbone was bitten three different times in his life. The first one was the most dire since he was bitten on the snout. The vet put him on an IV, gave him antihistamines and let us take him home with the IV. Her concern was the formation of blood clots. Needless to say, he made it since he got bitten twice more.

Those times we just gave him benedryl and let him decide what it was he wanted to do, which turned out to be not much since he hurt.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Wow! Leon the wonder dog.

We started Benedryl last night and today he's been walking pretty decent. He still has bloody drainage from the holes, I think that might clear up as the swelling goes down. 

My go-to friend thinks that it was a moccasin. The holes are at least 1/2 inch apart and less than 3/4 inch. I'm just very surprised that a snake was around. Well, I know they are around. But 9 years without poisonous snakes or raccoons, and I pay for it this year. Next will be the coyotes.
And bigger hawks that chase the crows away. I'm sure it just gets worse from here.

Nice to see you , Robin!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

After that initial bite we sort of got over the idea he was going to die from it. I can tell you they don't become immune from repeated bites, not if his reaction was any indicator.

He never suffered another bite after my Keepher started going out with him hunting. She was my snake dog and evidently alerted him to their presence. 

Thanks, Sem, I won't say things are more normal around here now because they're not. He needs to find a job locally or I might have to move.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Today he's walking, swelling down, bandage off. There are 2 dots where the holes were.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Leon kept the scars from his first snake bite, we never looked on his legs to see if those remained too. It was a reminder of how frightening that morning was to open the door to let him in and see his head blown up like a balloon and how he might have died had we not gotten his collar off.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

True. Those face ones get really big fast. 

Now hubby wants to remove the tree that the snake was potentially hiding in. Sure. Let the sun hit the south side of the house without a tree.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

If your guy was bitten, it wasn't in the tree. It was on the ground probably looking for an easy meal, mice, eggs, chicks. I'm not even sure they hang out in trees. 

BTW, do you have open water close by? If not, it might not have been a moccasin.


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## MichaelA69 (Sep 5, 2015)

I hope your dog is recovering well. I hope you get a pistol or a machete and go snake hunting. Nothing worse than varmints except poisonous ones.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

No water around me. So I agree. I know ibuprofen is toxic so be careful with the dose. We couldn't give him aspirin anymore because he kept bleeding. He only got 2.

Michael my husband thinks that he has a home down in a hole between roots. He asked this guy and frankly I don't want this handyman around. He talks too much and stays too long. I am not liking people like that too much.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Watch out for Pygmy rattlesnakes Karen. Most of the time you cant hear them 'rattle' because the rattles on their tail are small. They are skittish and will quickly strike without hesitation.


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## MichaelA69 (Sep 5, 2015)

seminolewind said:


> No water around me. So I agree. I know ibuprofen is toxic so be careful with the dose. We couldn't give him aspirin anymore because he kept bleeding. He only got 2.
> 
> Michael my husband thinks that he has a home down in a hole between roots. He asked this guy and frankly I don't want this handyman around. He talks too much and stays too long. I am not liking people like that too much.


Metacam would be much better. 
LOL about the handyman talking too much. Tell him if he can't talk and work at the same time, then be quiet. Hahaha. Maybe he won't stay that long.


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

Matacam is vet version of meloxicam. I take it daily for osteoarthritis in my hands.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Hubby went out and bought snake shot for his gun. Good idea I guess. Dog's doing okay. And Robin's dog has unfortunately gotten bit more but makes me feel better in some way. It seems like a lot of people here are familiar with situations like that.

I kept thinking about this handyman and he's one of the very few that come buy here looking for work and make me feel like peeking out the window all night. We got someone else we call that's father and son. I like them. Oh yea, this guy yesterday, he kept wiping his crotch like his underwear was annoying him. Maybe a nervous habit. I felt like I didn't want him seeing anymore of my property.


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

Probably a good idea! You still need to watch to make sure he's not around anymore though.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

What kind of gun does your husband have Karen? Shotguns with 6-8 shot work well with small game and snakes.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

We have a shot gun. Between us we have 10. Any caliber you want, LOL. He could use the shot gun very easily. But then he wouldn't be going to the store to buy some.


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## MichaelA69 (Sep 5, 2015)

dawg53 said:


> What kind of gun does your husband have Karen? Shotguns with 6-8 shot work well with small game and snakes.


Lol. That will certainly vaporize a snake. These little buggers come in handy:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/cci-shot-shells-22lr-12-20-rounds?a=289683


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## MichaelA69 (Sep 5, 2015)

seminolewind said:


> Hubby went out and bought snake shot for his gun. Good idea I guess. Dog's doing okay. And Robin's dog has unfortunately gotten bit more but makes me feel better in some way. It seems like a lot of people here are familiar with situations like that.
> 
> I kept thinking about this handyman and he's one of the very few that come buy here looking for work and make me feel like peeking out the window all night. We got someone else we call that's father and son. I like them. Oh yea, this guy yesterday, he kept wiping his crotch like his underwear was annoying him. Maybe a nervous habit. I felt like I didn't want him seeing anymore of my property.


I'm glad to hear the dog's doing well. As for the crotch wiper, you should have asked him if he had mites and needed a spritz of some permethrin.


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## zamora (May 26, 2015)

MichaelA69 said:


> As for the crotch wiper, you should have asked him if he had mites and needed a spritz of some permethrin.


 That's hilarious!

I'm late coming in on this thread but luckily it sounds like the pup is on the mend. Benadryl and keeping the site clean is the ticket unless it's a face bite then I recommend a vet visit.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I have been thinking about fencing a different area for the dog that doesn't have any hidey holes.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I can tell you the main reason Leon kept getting bit was his focus on hunting. I don't think he ever saw any of them except the one that got him in the snout, he was still an inquisitive pup then. If your guy is singularly focused the new fenced area may not work either. 

You've had a ton of rain this year didn't you? That would be one main reason you're now seeing snakes where you haven't seen them before.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Yea, we had rain every day for 4 months. That's an exaggeration- really. It's usually the 5 oclock thunderstorm almost every day.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

MichaelA69 said:


> Lol. That will certainly vaporize a snake. These little buggers come in handy:
> http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/cci-shot-shells-22lr-12-20-rounds?a=289683


I'm a shotgun kind of guy Mike. With all the thick brush and palmetto bushes in our area etc...shotgun is best. I do have a Ruger 10-22 with a 30 shot banana clip though, great for squirrel hunting and chicken predators; ****, possum.


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

When we were newly weds and I was expecting our first child, we lived in the country not too far from a river. In our back yard was a tree with 2 trunks. Gramps was out mowing and low and behold, there was a copper head sunning between the two trunks. He's scared spitless of snakes. I heard him yell & take off running around our little house "where's my gun". He made several trips around the house before he realized that he had loaned our only gun, a 22, to the neighbor and they weren't home. He finaly slowed down enough to find a shovel to chop the snake up. Then the "where there's one, there's always 2" kicked in. I don't think he slept at all that night!


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

I'm not scared of snakes, venomous or non venomous. I'll do what it takes to protect my chickens. I've lost quite a few chicks, pullets and cockerals to yellow rat snakes aka chicken snakes around here. They have no fear of humans and even attack chickens during the day. The first pic is off the internet. The 2nd pic is one that I killed just outside the chicken pen when I lived in southeast Georgia.


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## jn4 (Jun 21, 2012)

Over here we have copperheads Water Mocs and sand rattlers but the most commonly seen are the Big Black snakes and Rat snakes. Some of those black's reach 7 to 8 ft. and can weigh as much as 35-40lbs with a head almost big as your fist.

The venomous snakes tend to hang out in the Timber line except of course for the Water Mocs. But Black snakes are the worst problem,they tend to hang out around barns and out buildings in search for rodents and such. They are also somewhat lazy in that they will opt out for the easiest meal they can get.....YOUR EGGS!
So imagine, if you have 15 to 20 hens laying that snake/snakes will have a buffet and being well fed will raise a family.....yup where there is one they maybe 10 or more. And a large snake can get into all but the most impregnable coop/compound. And while they are not poisonous, their bite can and will make you sick and can become a nasty infectious wound if not properly cared for. 
A snake that big will not be stopped by a .22 with rat or snake shot unless you score a lucky head shot...same goes for a large Rat or even Corn Snake... .22 ain't gonna stop em. But most shotguns firing #6 or #7 field load usually does. I have used a .410 but normaly I use the Winchester 12 now a days.

...............................
Two summers ago our Newfoundland got bitten on the neck under his jaw......his huge head was swollen even larger , almost comical looking. First we thought he had gotten into a fire-ant mound and was attacked. My wife brought him inside for a couple days and gave him 1/4 dose's of benadrill twice a day..
Three days past and I noticed 2 nasty looking sores on his lower jowls. They were about 1 to 1/12 apart and festered up....that was a snake bite not fire-ants. The Vet told us if he has made it 3 days and not gotten any worse then he would probably be ok and survive it. Well this big old dog never slowed down much at all except for that first day. More than likely it was a Moccasin that got him as you can't keep this dog out of the water..
I'm sure a small or normal size dog might not have made it...or maybe just the snake didn't get enough poison in him to kill him.
The dog barks like crazy now when he see's a snake and tries to attack it.....he's got heart I'll give him that.


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## zamora (May 26, 2015)

jn4 said:


> Big Black snakes and Rat snakes. Some of those black's reach 7 to 8 ft. and can weigh as much as 35-40lbs with a head almost big as your fist.


If those sizes are accurate about the "Big Black snakes", those would probably be Indigo snakes and I didn't think they were found that far north. If that's what you are in fact seeing, you should know that they are endangered. If you see one, you should report it to your local Fish & Wildlife, they can relocate them.

They are the largest and most beautiful of all the North American snakes and are sadly disappearing at a rapid rate. It's on my bucket list to see one in the wild.

http://www.fws.gov/verobeach/MSRPPDFs/EasternIndigoSnake.pdf


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

We have the needed shotguns now and use them. I actually think it is a .410. He's not quite as bad about as he used to be.


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## jn4 (Jun 21, 2012)

zamora said:


> If those sizes are accurate about the "Big Black snakes", those would probably be Indigo snakes and I didn't think they were found that far north. If that's what you are in fact seeing, you should know that they are endangered. If you see one, you should report it to your local Fish & Wildlife, they can relocate them.
> 
> They are the largest and most beautiful of all the North American snakes and are sadly disappearing at a rapid rate. It's on my bucket list to see one in the wild.
> 
> http://www.fws.gov/verobeach/MSRPPDFs/EasternIndigoSnake.pdf


Zamora I checked out that PDF link you gave and also goggled the Indigo snake. These are not colored like the Indigo....these have greyish white underbellies and look like the Eastern Black Rat snake in this first link except their color is more DULL instead of glossy.

http://www.wildlifeofct.com/eastern%20ratsnake.html

There have also been numerous reports over the last cpl years of very large Black Snakes in the area. Here is one from back in 2012. And NO, I;m not trying to imply these are 10 15ft like these crazy people LOL!!

http://archive.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=188166

The last one I dispatched , I held it up by the neck,..(i am 6ft).. over my head...say 7 to 71/2 now......its tail touched the ground..and its body was as thick as my forearm. But it was not the Indigo...you are correct they don't move up past Southern Georgia it would seem


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## zamora (May 26, 2015)

Yeah, if they have the lighter underbellies, they are rat snakes. I guess they can get that big if there is sufficient food. That actually would scare me, the rodents that they are hunting carry diseases that the snakes don't have. I'll keep the snakes, you can have the rodents. *shudder*


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## jn4 (Jun 21, 2012)

What I have /Had been doing was live catch and try to relocate...that worked a couple times early on....but now after a few weeks time they seem to somehow come back. WTH? After I relocate a time or two is when I then decide to kill the snake. I'm not a girly-man with them...they don't scare me...so I try to work with them, until I start losing 8 to 10 eggs a day then it's time to act. We keep a couple old farm Tomcats so rodents aren't a big problem....

I do wish there were another way,..I don't like killing....I hate to put down my fryers each fall.....hate to kill opossums and '*****...but out here in the "sticks" (most close neighbor about 1/4 mile) it's a totally different game . We have to deal with all those minor pests...plus the Fox and occasional Coyote.
I hate it...but it is what it is.....


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## zamora (May 26, 2015)

I couldn't tell you how many grey rat snakes we relocated this year but it was upwards of 10. When relocating, you must take them far enough away so they won't return. 5 miles minimum. I know ours didn't come back but we live in the sticks too and have miles and miles and miles available for relocation. We just had a ton of rat snakes!


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

jn4 said:


> What I have /Had been doing was live catch and try to relocate...that worked a couple times early on....but now after a few weeks time they seem to somehow come back. WTH? After I relocate a time or two is when I then decide to kill the snake. I'm not a girly-man with them...they don't scare me...so I try to work with them, until I start losing 8 to 10 eggs a day then it's time to act. We keep a couple old farm Tomcats so rodents aren't a big problem....
> 
> I do wish there were another way,..I don't like killing....I hate to put down my fryers each fall.....hate to kill opossums and '*****...but out here in the "sticks" (most close neighbor about 1/4 mile) it's a totally different game . We have to deal with all those minor pests
> 
> I wondered why this toad kept coming back. Last time it was from a block away. I know because he had a mark on him. So I took him about a mile away and he didn't come back.


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## azbison (Nov 17, 2015)

MichaelA69 said:


> Lol. That will certainly vaporize a snake. These little buggers come in handy:
> http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/cci-shot-shells-22lr-12-20-rounds?a=289683


The CCI shells are handy, but you have to be close!! I would rather stand off 10 yards with a 12 guage and turn the snake into a red mist.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Azbison, my thoughts exactly. I think we do have a shot gun somewhere around here.


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## azbison (Nov 17, 2015)

seminolewind said:


> Azbison, my thoughts exactly. I think we do have a shot gun somewhere around here.


Never can have too many shotguns, chickens, dogs or woodworking tools.


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## jn4 (Jun 21, 2012)

azbison said:


> Never can have too many shotguns, chickens, dogs or woodworking tools.


Yep...that's right


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

azbison said:


> Never can have too many shotguns, chickens, dogs or woodworking tools.


OMG!!! You're right.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Baxter's leg looked good, then it started to look not so good. He licked it all the time, so we put the bandage back on. Then hubby wakes up this morning and he's bleeding a lot. So much that he took him to the vet. The vet gave him a shot of inflammatory , and put him on Baytril tabs. He said if the snake bite had been poisonous, he would have died . However non poisonous snakes bite and they are full of bacteria. He said that Bax is having a problem with coagulation. I hope that stops. That was $175. Plus another visit next week.


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## Alaskan (Aug 22, 2015)

Oh good grief!

The problem with coagulation isn't poison related?

Whatever... I really do not know, but SUPER SORRY for what you and your dog are going through.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I think the vet told my (husband) that it may be related to infection.


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