# Dog food paranoia



## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

This dog food thing has become big business and expensive food if you don't want corn or soy. 

So every time a dog vomits or has no appetite it's "it must be the food".

I'm not sure what to think. We got a new bag of food a few days ago, and my dog won't eat it. But she'll eat anything else we give her. Otherwise she is a terror as usual, poops normal, drinks normal. So I guess we'll be trying a new food tomorrow. I hope hubby gets a small bag and not the $50 bag.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

I've always wondered if soy had an American name without reference to Tofu,Soy Sauce or anything Chinese would it still have the anti movement?


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

The only reason I changed to a "grain free" was that my schnauzer was itching and had eczema horrible. We have been using Rachel Ray grain free and she's done well on it. I get ours at WM. However, that said, it looks like she really has a grass allergy. I have to give her zyrtec when it's really acting up.


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## hildar (Oct 3, 2013)

We have a neighbor that started buying that Blue Buffalo dog food he thought it would be better for his dogs, they wouldn't touch it so he brought it here for me to feed to mine, mine wont touch it either. Back to the cheap dog food for my dogs. Then about a week ago neighbor came by with another all natural bag of dog food his dogs wouldn't eat this one, Low and behold mine wouldn't either. I have to laugh at how much he is paying for these bags of dog food and no dog will touch it. I mean the puppies we had would eat anything that you gave them. They even went out to the compost pile and ate the green beans, and onion peels but not the natural dog foods.


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## zamora (May 26, 2015)

I have worked in vet offices off and on for years and I always feed Purina brand dog food. I have never had a problem with it with any dog I have ever had (knock on wood) and they always have eaten it well. Right now I have one dog on dog chow little bites and two on the fit and trim healthy (cause they need to diet a bit).


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

I feed a mix of kibble (Orijen which is a prey model diet and Boreal which is a grain free diet) and raw. Put cheap food or treats in front of the dogs and my huskies go nuts over it, it's like taking the kids to McDonald's! Later that night I'm cleaning up diarrhea and vomit, just like a kid who over-indulged at McDonald's. The chihuahua will not touch crap food at all.
I don't feed my dogs a high quality diet because I am scared of corn and soy. I feed my dogs a high quality diet because I don't want them eating crap. Most kibble is full of corn and soy because those ingredients are cheap, plain and simple, it's to make the companies lots of money. The mark up on the higher quality food is less, and you feed A LOT less, plus the dogs are healthier.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

If people don't like soy that is fine.But at protein 37% and with it's amino acid profile(which is right under an egg)it is far from crap.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

SBM vs. MBM ...


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Food for a carnivore should not be made up of vegetable protein though. It's used in crap dog foods because it's cheap and allows them to keep the protein up without using actual meat, which is more expensive - even for bad quality meat. Therefore, carnivore food produced from soy is crap. I'd sooner feed my dogs a quality meat based diet and supplement with other whole foodstuffs like eggs.

I'm not against soy at all, it has its place. I use it often to supplement my livestock feeds when they need more protein for muscle build up (soy meal) or for the protein/oil combination (whole).


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> I've always wondered if soy had an American name without reference to Tofu,Soy Sauce or anything Chinese would it still have the anti movement?


Good question. Aside from that, soy is high in protein. However I've learned that bags may list high protein, but from what . I have read up on this stuff because of all the dog people who do this "raw" diet. It's important to have your protein from sources like meat (for dogs), as well as other like peas.

I do agree that it seems that dogs love the less expensive foods better, LOL. I wonder why. It's interesting that corn is not in a dog's best interest, but it is for a chicken.

Does anyone ever think about giving their chickens leftover meat? Like something they can pick off a bone?


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

I feed my chickens meat all the time. They get all the cooked carcasses to pick clean, like the Christmas turkey or ham bones as the dogs don't eat cooked bones here. They also get the congealed blood, some offal, and what's left of the heads of the slaughtered livestock.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

https://www.chewy.com/orijen-regional-red-grain-free-dry/dp/45870
At $102.99 for 28.6 lbs, there would be a lot less pet dogs in this world.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Not seeing the point, there, NM. Never once did I say everyone should feed Orijen. But whatever.

Orijen is a top of the line prey model dog food using fresh local ingredients, so yes it is pricey - though I do not pay that much for it. Their sister company, Acana, is made with the same quality protein sources but not prey model, and is cheaper again. Boreal, which I also stated I feed that you didn't post a link to for whatever reason, is about 2/3 the price of Orijen and is also a very decent food. 

I have 4 huskies and a chihuahua. Costs me 100-150$ a month to feed them all, depending on the time of year. That works out to an average of 1.04$ a day per dog. I fail to see how that is at all cost prohibitive.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Just did the math to put this in perspective, Purina Dog Chow, which is 35$ a bag here, would cost me 1.09$ a day to feed to one of my huskies. So I'm actually saving 5 cents a day feeding a prey model, grain free, raw dog diet vs a diet that the main ingredient is corn.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

https://www.google.com/search?q=Bor...id=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Boreal+dog+food&tbm=shop


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Fiere said:


> Not seeing the point, there, NM. Never once did I say everyone should feed Orijen. But whatever.
> 
> .


And nor did i say you did or that you shouldn't use it.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

No, you didn't, but I don't see the point in the mocking air.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Fiere said:


> No, you didn't, but I don't see the point in the mocking air.


Explain please.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Hubby picked up a bag of wellness puppy, which she ate. It just got me worried that she was looking and acting hungry, but didn't touch her food all day. 

Remember way back when we fed our dogs a healthy diet of Gaines Burgers and Milk Bones?

A few months ago I had read up on doggie protein and the different sources for amino acids. I realized that looking at protein % alone is not the whole picture as NM pointed out. And if say deboned chicken, it may not be alot since it's full of water. So they add chicken meal which is very high in protein .


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

There has been alot of disagreement on whether dogs are carnivores or omnivores. Which is alot of disagreement on ingredients. I don't go for dogs needing a diet like a wolf. But I don't want corn in the dog food, and want different sources for amino acids rather than just soy. 

What's in cat kibble?


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Nm156 said:


> Explain please.


Your post comes off as mocking.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Dogs are carnivores, but have an expanded diet. Wolves do eat a lot of veg, but not as much as say coyotes do. I do not make them a specific veg ration in their meals because it's in the kibble and it's on our plates (they eat our leftovers). I feed a lot of oily fish and eggs, which really bumps their amino acids. 
The chihuahua pretty much eats at the table with us so most of his meals are whatever were eating, lol. Last night he had a 1/4 cup of Orijen and his own bowl of chicken alfredo. He also got the trim off the chicken breast as I was deboning it. He's a piglet... He also might be just a tiny bit spoiled.


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

Nm156 said:


> I've always wondered if soy had an American name without reference to Tofu,Soy Sauce or anything Chinese would it still have the anti movement?


A lot of the hype about no soy products is because soy contains phytoestrogens called isoflavones that can mimic estrogen in your body.

Is it that big of a deal for a dog? Probably not. Unless your dog developed cancer... then you might want to re-evaluate.

In humans (or chickens that produce meat/eggs for consumption) you have to evaluate your own personal cancer risk. My female family members have ER/PR positive breast cancer. This means that the cancer grows and thrives in the presence of estrogen and progesterone. My Mom takes medication to block estrogen and progesterone. So, for ME is it VERY important to ensure my chickens are fed soy free product.

I figure...even if this is in the research and study phase....why chance it when I have a choice.

I'd rather cut out non essentials like expensive cell phone plans, cable TV, expensive hair cuts and nails, etc to purchase soy free and have a possibly healthier alternative.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

I don't think the cancer thing is the reason for the OP's paranoia , if that is ones situation then one should address it.

And I'm going to leave at that and say Thank you and goodbye Chicken Forum.


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

Nm156 said:


> I don't think the cancer thing is the reason for the OP's paranoia , if that is ones situation then one should address it.
> 
> And I'm going to leave at that and say Thank you and goodbye Chicken Forum.


I wasn't commenting on anyone elses comment but the one I quoted. That's why I used the quote option, when I normally don't when addressing the whole forum.

This is exactly what I'm talking about with this forum. I treat a forum like I do any other adult in person conversation. If I want to address someone individually I quote them. If I want to address the crowd I don't.

I think my comment toward the quoted comment was appropriate to address the idea that the soy hype is because soy is associated with Chinese soy sauce and wouldn't cause a hype if it were an American name. If she said that in an adult face to face conversation (regardless of what the original topic were), I would face her (equivalent to a quote in a forum) and state the same thing. Perhaps she is unaware of what the soy hype is about.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

heididmitchell said:


> I wasn't commenting on anyone elses comment but the one I quoted. That's why I used the quote option, when I normally don't when addressing the whole forum.
> 
> This is exactly what I'm talking about with this forum. I treat a forum like I do any other adult in person conversation. If I want to address someone individually I quote them. If I want to address the crowd I don't.
> 
> I think my comment toward the quoted comment was appropriate to address the idea that the soy hype is because soy is associated with Chinese soy sauce and wouldn't cause a hype if it were an American name. If she said that in an adult face to face conversation (regardless of what the original topic were), I would face her (equivalent to a quote in a forum) and state the same thing. Perhaps she is unaware of what the soy hype is about.


You're making way more out of something that you don't need to.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

http://www.aicr.org/foods-that-fight-cancer/soy.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/#intro
http://www.aicr.org/foods-that-fight-cancer/soy.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/#research


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

Woohoo....you won!!!


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

heididmitchell said:


> Woohoo....you won!!!


It has nothing to do with winning.
That is not your original post that i up voted .


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

.......


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> I've always wondered if soy had an American name without reference to Tofu,Soy Sauce or anything Chinese would it still have the anti movement?


I never thought of it like that. We raise lots of soybeans in this country. There was a movement to grow pearl millet instead of soy , but I don't know what happened there.

Maybe people don't like the fact that the high protein numbers are from the soybeans in the product and little other. Maybe people smartened up and want protein from meat in the product. Maybe soy, like corn has become a filler and used too much.

I don't fault others for feeding dogs raw or the "wolf" diet. But I do not think that dogs are carnivores. I think I would call them scavengers, LOL. I do believe in moderation .

So, with the new bag of food, Rox ate breakfast well. But didn't touch her food after that. I put vanilla yogurt on it, something she never passes up, but she turned her nose up at that.

Does anyone think she got smart and is not eating her food and waiting for treats?

I think these pricey foods should all sell one pound bags so you can see if your dog likes it. Maybe a little beef or chicken broth would help. Maybe her weight is perfect and I should stop obsessing over it, LOL. But I guess we are both terrified that we would find her sick.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I have learned one thing on line. Words are words. There is no intonation. Sentences and statements can be translated many different ways by many different people. Sometimes statements are taken to mean something way different than the poster meant. All due to the inability to add intonation to a post. I have learned to always think the best first , and look more at motive and intent. Is someone actually meaning that one lacks knowledge or do they mean to offer information for discussion? Are they trying to be funny or sarcastic? Or is their intent really to put one down. Are they challenging one on their knowledge for the sake of discussion or to make one look stupid? 

I have to admit that there one member here that sounded very gruff. In fact gruff when they had no reason to be. What I found was that the longer I knew them, the more I realized it was their way and had nothing to do with how I or others perceived their intent. So I just let it go. 

I've seen a few times where a few have actually attacked someone for their methods of care for their chickens. Which makes it a personal attack which is what we don't need.


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

I admit I was taken aback with this comment:



Nm156 said:


> I've always wondered if soy had an American name without reference to Tofu,Soy Sauce or anything Chinese would it still have the anti movement?


I could have been more adult and said that I never thought of it in that way.

To me...that statement seems like the author wondered if we have something against Chinese and not the product itself. That if Soy....was called something "American" we wouldn't have an issue. That seems silly to me.

What if a new reader didn't know there was a "hype" about Soy. Then they are going to look it as a racial cultural argument rather than a health study issue.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Yes many Americans are very biased in that way.Sad but true.
Read feed threads on the big chicken place and count how times that chicken feed is said to be made from "Chinese Junk".


ETA Many


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

Heres a picture of my beautiful eggs


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Nice eggs ...


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

I'm so glad you like my eggs.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

i don't know why there's such a dislike for soy, yet it's also sold as healthy.


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

It's one of those crazy things like vaccines and breast milk....you just have to take in the info and decide what's best for yourself.


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

My chickens eat plenty that's bad for them....apparently they share that same philosophy and decide for themselves, hahaha


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Taking NM's question about soy to heart, I did some reading. I'm not a nutritional expert but expect everyone to think of me as one. You know that's a joke. 
Soy is a wonderful food or legume which may or may not increase health. Brazil and USA are the leading producers of soy. 

The problem is that soy is also a cheap protein source. In dog foods soy is unwanted because it inflates the percentage of protein and producers can use soy and cut down on nutritional meat protein and save alot of money. A number of amino acids are gotten from certain foods that make up protein. Some are produced by the body. Some need to be eaten. It's better to get your protein from better sources than just soybeans. 

It is expensive to eliminate soy in a dog food and replace it with better sources of protein like meat , fish and chicken. Since it's pretty easy to cheat and make it look like the meat is providing the protein, other ingredients that are a larger amount can seem smaller by being broken down into other names. Like 10 pounds of potato can be listed as potato meal, potatoes, potato slurry, potato peels, etc. Or the 10 pound chicken that's the first ingredient is weighed before the moisture is removed. So it;s not really 10 pounds of chicken. However the second ingredient is chicken meal, which makes up for the amount of water removed. A bonus would be to have the 3rd ingredient as a meat meal as well. 

What really gets me is when you read down to the little ingredients, for example, it may say cranberries, salt, calcium. So how much cranberry is it really if the next ingredient is a very small amount?

Every country needs sources of affordable protein. I would imagine that a country with so many people like China, the best way for them to supply protein is by soy, tofu, and other soy products.

The paranoia I talk about is with all the choices of quality protein for dogs , seems like many are worried that they can be doing or feeding something better.

The paranoia I have developed is when my dog has no appetite, it must be the dog food! So we run out and buy another brand. She ate the new food today. Maybe she just doesn't require the amount of food she used to during growth spurts. who knows.


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

I'm so glad the dog ate the food! I totally agree with what someone said earlier about making dog food sample packs that are one pound. It would allow people to try it out. I wonder what would happen if someone emailed a company for a sample. I'm afraid they might do it, but, it would arrive in 8-10 weeks and be a serving that was too small to determine if the dog likes it!

Funny story. One of my dogs loves my Dad. He goes nuts if he even hears the name Grandpa! If he goes too long without seeing Grandpa he stops eating. Completely gers on strike! If my Dad is unable to come over we have my Dad talk to him on the phone  I hold the phone up to Coopers ear for a bit. Then he resumes eating again


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Wow. Maybe borrowing a piece of clothing from your grandfather and hang it by the food.


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## Cockadoodledoo (Jan 28, 2016)

My Dad was too embarrassed to record himself talking, so I can play it when needed. 

But....he'll talk to a dog on the phone just fine!!!! Hahaha


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