# Sticky  PIGEONS AND DOVES



## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Pigeons have always fascinated me and I've owned many breeds over the years. There's literally something for everyone. Pigeon breeds come in many sizes and shapes. Meat pigeons that are as big as large chicken and can't fly-pigeons that can puff up their chest like a balloon-birds that strut like turkeys and fan out their tails-ones that tumble and do somersaults as they walk-others that do flips and somersaults in the air-breeds with huge feathers on their feet or crests on the head-different patterns and colors that are truly remarkable-frill pigeons that have frizzle feathers-those that have such a strong homing instinct they will fly over huge bodies of water and many hundreds of miles to reach their home loft-pigeons bred for speed and racing- on and on; something for everyone that likes pigeons.
*
*If you have any specific questions, just ask. PJ-pigeons lay just two eggs to a clutch-I am not positive, but I doubt they ship well in that pigeons immediately start brooding as soon as the first egg is laid. I have let pigeon eggs sit a couple days without incubation and when they were incubated, no development occurred. If your interested, check online for pigeon breeders in your state. Most likely you will find a directory showing different breeders in your state and the pigeon breeds they raise.*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Doves and pigeons are closely related species and are very similar in their habits and behaviors. A tiny diamond dove and a mourning dove show the same courtship behaviors as the larger pigeons.

Pigeons are fascinating to watch as they form pair bonds. You'll see the male tagging along after a likely female, wings and tail dragging the ground as he bows his head up and down cooing loudly the whole time. If the female is suitably impressed and available she will beg to be fed; which in this case is an invitation to mate. Pigeons and doves are monogamous, but males are not above cheating if the situation presents itself. Once mated the pair loses no time in picking a likely nest site. It's the male that usually choses the place and on this site he will make a moaning sound over and over, wings quivering as he tries to entice the hen to join him. In most cases that doesn't take long. Once the site is approved by both birds the male will fly off to find nest materials while the female sits at the nest site and waits for the male to return. The male brings straw, hay, long pine needles or other course grasses. Some dove species use twigs. The material is offered to the female a piece at a time and she will place it where she thinks it should be. Pigeons/doves do not make elaborate nests just enough to hold the eggs in place. I've seen many dove nest in trees that were so sparsely built the eggs could be seen through the nest bottom. Once the nest is finished it doesn't take long...*


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Thanks Dan, I have already looked up some breeders in my area, it looks like there are a few not too far away, (south of Cleveland).


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Poultry Judge said:


> Thanks Dan, I have already looked up some breeders in my area, it looks like there are a few not too far away, (south of Cleveland).


*You're welcome. I need to look up for my state again and see if there's anyone close and what breeds are available. Pigmy Pouters would make an interesting pet-the kind that blow up their necks like a balloon and have overly long legs or Trumpeters with their crest and feathered feet. Like below from Google images.















*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*... before eggs are laid. Most pigeons and doves lay a clutch of two eggs two days apart. There are some species that lay a single egg. Many people are surprised to learn that pigeons have such a small clutch of eggs as there is sooooo many pigeons flying around. It's not surprising, though, when a person learns about pigeon nesting habits. Pigeons will nest year around as long as there is plenty of liquid water and food. Frequently a pair will have two nests going at the same time; one with eggs and the other with nearly weaned squabs. Pigeons and doves are all about teamwork, both male and female work together to build the nest and both brood the eggs. The female broods at night and the male broods during the daylight hours. Pigeon eggs take 18 days to hatch; the first hatching two days before the other. When the eggs...*


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Thanks Dan, I have looked up several of the folks who have pigeons near me. What breeds have you had over the years?


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Poultry Judge said:


> Thanks Dan, I have looked up several of the folks who have pigeons near me. What breeds have you had over the years?


*Homers, rollers, trumpeters, pigmy pouters, nuns, kings, American fantails, Indian fantails, oriental frills. These are only what I remember. Also Jacobins.*


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

Which were your favorites to keep? Can you pick just a couple? 

There really are something! I had no idea so many birds belonged to the pigeon category. I am in love with the pink necked green pigeon- does anyone keep those? I haven’t even looked yet bc I have enough to handle for now! Lol but I’m curious.


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## Hania41806 (May 4, 2021)

Oh my, so that's what they're called! Pygmy pouters are a bit terrifying 😂. English carriers are even more terrifying. I love pigeons all the same though!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Hania41806 said:


> Oh my, so that's what they're called! Pygmy pouters are a bit terrifying 😂. English carriers are even more terrifying. I love pigeons all the same though!


That looks so wrong. 

I'm with OM, I had no idea there were so many varieties of pigeons out there.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

When I was going to college in Dublin I remember mostly various homing/racing/Belgian/Dutch varieties. On some of those breeds the bill growth became heavier with age. They only raced them for a few years but some of the breeding stock could become really old, I want to say around twenty and they would make several nests a year.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

What is the average for pigeons? It sounds like a pair could be around forever.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Overmountain1 said:


> Which were your favorites to keep? Can you pick just a couple?
> 
> There really are something! I had no idea so many birds belonged to the pigeon category. I am in love with the pink necked green pigeon- does anyone keep those? I haven’t even looked yet bc I have enough to handle for now! Lol but I’m curious.


That's a tough one to answer because it changed over time. Indian Fantails capture the imagination as do pigmy pouters. But rollers and homers are such fun to watch fly. I could keep going...

Pink-necked-can't remember. Quick research! I doubt it is something commonly kept. I do know they are expensive. Probably more a zoo or botanical gardens resident.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

robin416 said:


> What is the average for pigeons? It sounds like a pair could be around forever.


3-5 years for wild, 12-15 for domestic and some breeding pairs 21-22 years. I know in Ireland they always kept winning racing birds, ( ones that won more than one 650 mile race), some of the breeding pairs keep two nests going simultaneously if they have good access to nutrition and a safe home.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> What is the average for pigeons? It sounds like a pair could be around forever.


*10-15 years is average, but they can live much longer.*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Before technology took over, homers were used in times of war to send messages.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I remembered that about the homers. 

I wonder what it's about that pigeons that they can be so long lived. As tiny as quail are they only live 3 to 5. If we get lucky we can have chickens that live longer than ten years.


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

It has something to do with the heartbeat ratio. Sound odd? 
Many smaller hearts have less ‘beats’ in them; there is a theory that is somewhat? proven? I can’t recall it’s exact status scientifically speaking. At any rate- same as how mice vs rats, gerbil vs guinea pig, etc: I will have to see if I can find that again. 
It basically says that we start out with an average lifespan in our hearts, and environmental things do affect it but basically a set, or average number of beats in a lifetime. Genetics and all that are obvious factors but again- I’ll have to find more. It’s neat but kinda makes sense.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'll read it if you find it.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Some parrot species can live 50 years. When I lived in WI, one pet shop had a amazon parrot that was over 100; or so they claimed.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I knew the big birds could outlive us if we didn't get them when we were still kids.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

danathome said:


> *Some parrot species can live 50 years. When I lived in WI, one pet shop had a amazon parrot that was over 100; or so they claimed.*


I have heard of 100 year old parrots.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

danathome said:


> Before technology took over, homers were used in times of war to send messages.


Yes, in many wars. here is a French picture postcard from WW I. It's a courier pigeon bus. If you look closely, it is being driven by a girl, there are several soldiers and a pigeon on top of one of the soldier's heads. How cool is that?


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*I believe I read somewhere that even the Romans used homers as part of their mail system.*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*... the squabs are nearly naked, blind, and helpless. Pigeons and doves do not carry insects to their young to eat as so* *many bird species do. Instead, they feed by regurgitation. When the squabs are new the food is a nutritious mix of "pigeon milk" that is secreted by the crop. Having babies that don't hatch on the same day makes it easier for the parents to provide this "milk" for the newly hatched. Later, as the squabs grow, the parents feed whatever they have eaten, bringing it up from their crop. The squabs beg for food with rather shrill cries and by nuzzling at the parent's beak, at which point the parent bobs its head in order to regurgitate. The squabs insert their beak in the parent's beak and lunch is served. I try to make this process easier for the adult pigeons by feeding them more mash and less whole seed when they have new squabs. This also benefits the squabs by making the food easier to digest. Growth is fast. Squabs wean around a month to six weeks of age. Once weaned the young join the flock. By the time the first squabs wean the adult pigeons will have a second nest started; providing there is abundant food and water.*


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Thanks Dan!


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Poultry Judge said:


> Thanks Dan!


*You're welcome. Where else would you like to go with this?*


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

danathome said:


> *You're welcome. Where else would you like to go with this?*


Did you show or race when you were younger? When I was younger I watched some of the old guys race in Ireland. They were very dedicated.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*No and no. I trained the homers and flew them from different places. People may not realize that a homer, who has never been out of the loft, will not come home when taken somewhere and released. Homers need to be "trained". Possibly this would be of interest. Even my young hand feds have been somewhat trained even though I have no plans on flying them from any distance.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Well, that's something I didn't know. I always thought they knew, no matter where they were taken, where home was.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Well, that's something I didn't know. I always thought they knew, no matter where they were taken, where home was.


Nope. Homers have to be taught where home is as do other flying breeds.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*For birds, pigeons and doves are intelligent and they rely on learned behavior more so than many other species. With* *my hand fed babies a problem is that they have no fear of what they don't know; as likely to beg for food from a dog or peafowl as they are to beg from me. A dangerous situation, but luckily, they learn fast. So too, must they learn where home is. As the squabs start flying, I set them on my shoulder and walk around the yard to show them all their surroundings; where the water bowl is, the bathing pool, the rooftop of the small coop where they will be fed, the loft, their roost in the turkey shed, the poultry yard, as well as those places they need to avoid.*
*
Homers also need to be taught where home is and how to return to the loft. This process not only shows where and how, it also begins the elimination of birds that have a poor homing instinct. To begin with, the young homers are put in cages on or near the loft so they can look around and become familiar with the surroundings. From there the young are taught how to push aside the bars on the "trap" door to the loft. These bars permit pigeons to enter the loft but prevent leaving once they have come home. My loft now-a-days has no trap door; the door simply stands open all day and closed at night.
*
*Once the pigeons have mastered the trap they are taken short distances and allowed to fly home. It's always best to fly pigeons when they 're hungry as they will rush back to eat. Each day the distance become greater and in different directions until the new birds know their loft and the surroundings well. As the distance becomes greater, birds are lost; mostly to hawks and falcons (like the one OM showed in her post). Peregrines are about the worst thing to have around a pigeon loft. Some cities have brought peregrines in for the very reason of eliminating feral pigeons and to promote the specie. Most of the "lost" pigeons are those that lack proper homing instinct. If a person really looks, they will likely see homers who didn't go home. For owners, these birds are no great loss. The homing instinct is genetic. Eliminating such pigeons improves the quality of the flock as a whole. 

Training for me and my poor birds is not so elaborate. They will never be flown far as I know they wouldn't return. The instinct is just not there. So, for me and mine, training is just being sure the whole flock knows the immediate area. Of course, parent pigeons do most of the work now when they raise their own squabs, otherwise, it's on the shoulder and a short walk around the yard.*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*All the hand feds are now eating on their own. Unlike many species I've hand fed, pigeon wean fast and early. Feeding them now is just holding out my hand and let them gobble down whatever's there. In a bit I'll check the squabs in the loft and see how soon they will be ready to take. No one in TN on the net list of pigeon breeders is close enough for me to get to. I may have to be content with my glorified barn pigeons for now.*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Most people think of pigeons as being dirty birds; what bird isn't? However, when it comes to personal hygiene, pigeons are far cleaner than many other birds. Pigeons and doves bath frequently and preen for hours. Even as squabs in the nest, put a bowl of water near them and they will hop in and start splashing around; rather fun to watch. Keeping squabs clean is difficult to say the least when they are hand fed. It gets to the point they look so dirty it's hard to believe they will ever get clean, but as soon as they can, they bath and bath and bath until their feathers are bright and new looking. And typing this reminds me that I need to change the water in the bathing tub. Pigeons do not like dirty water, to bath in or to drink and won't go near it until they have to. Keeping clean, fresh water available for the flock is a must and I change the water at least once during the day. As the season heats up, I'll change the water even more often as hot means the flock bathes more often.*
















from Google images-I wish my camera were better.


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

Thank you again, Dan! Still loving learning more about them, especially with your first hand experience.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I love watching birds taking a bath. I try to leave a shallow pan with water sitting out for them.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*When a person reads of pigeons, at some point it may say they are monogamous and mate for life; about as true as it is for humans. My Kimmi got me six homers for last year's birthday that became two pair and two extra. The pairs went about their lives and soon began building nests and laying eggs-happy and contented. Then my wife saw that I was really into pigeons and brought home six more! OK and not a problem as the loft had plenty of room. The next day there were fights and a lot of bickering. By the third day my pairs were no longer; they had remated with new birds.*
*
I have seen this happen fairly often. Those feral pigeons are more likely to mate until one dies. They have choices and can pick a mate that's just right. In lofts and pens this does not always happen. A lot of times two birds, male and female, are put together and expected to do their thing; and they usually do-for a while. Sometimes these "forced" pairs form a strong bond and do stay together as a pair Other times this does not happen-bonds are weak-then when a new bird shows up on the scene; well... 

I try to give the flock choices in picking a mate, as it causes a lot less strife in the flock. A pair of pigeons, "getting a divorce" and remarrying causes big trouble in the loft with their fighting and haggling. Eggs and squabs are abandoned and die; just not a good situation. I'm waiting for the day that one of the boys finds a mate outside the flock and brings her home to meet the parents-HA! One of these days it will happen. And likely, one of the girls will not show up some day as they've joined another flock.

And those strongly bonded pairs-monogamous-hardly. Males and females are apt to look for a little action when the spouse has its back turned. This happens in many species; nature's way to widen the gene pool to keep the species strong and diverse.*

*See any parallels between people and pigeons?*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I've watched a male guinea morn the loss of his mate.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> I've watched a male guinea morn the loss of his mate.


*Yes, I've seen a number of species mourn their loss; whether it's a mate or offspring. I think our feathered friends have more feelings/emotions than they're given credit for.*


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

danathome said:


> *When a person reads of pigeons, at some point it may say they are monogamous and mate for life; about as true as it is for humans. My Kimmi got me six homers for last year's birthday that became two pair and two extra. The pairs went about their lives and soon began building nests and laying eggs-happy and contented. Then my wife saw that I was really into pigeons and brought home six more! OK and not a problem as the loft had plenty of room. The next day there were fights and a lot of bickering. By the third day my pairs were no longer; they had remated with new birds.*
> 
> *I have seen this happen fairly often. Those feral pigeons are more likely to mate until one dies. They have choices and can pick a mate that's just right. In lofts and pens this does not always happen. A lot of times two birds, male and female, are put together and expected to do their thing; and they usually do-for a while. Sometimes these "forced" pairs form a strong bond and do stay together as a pair Other times this does not happen-bonds are weak-then when a new bird shows up on the scene; well...
> 
> ...


Thank you for the logical explanation Dan! Very accessible as always!


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*PJ-unless there's something you'd like to know... my work is done.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

And here I was thinking that you were once again teaching. You almost had me talked into checking them out.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> And here I was thinking that you were once again teaching. You almost had me talked into checking them out.


*I'd happily continue if there's something anyone would like to know. It does seem I'm the only one really interested in pigeons. You-get birds-I doubt that.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I didn't want to junk up what you were teaching us so I was refraining from making comments. Unless if you want to have more questions asked. But that's a problem too because you've been so complete in talking about them and their care. 

I realized I haven't seen my dove in a couple of weeks. I'm hoping they're nesting.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> I didn't want to junk up what you were teaching us so I was refraining from making comments. Unless if you want to have more questions asked. But that's a problem too because you've been so complete in talking about them and their care.
> 
> I realized I haven't seen my dove in a couple of weeks. I'm hoping they're nesting.


*With mourning doves, when they're getting ready to nest you will hear a moaning sound (unlike their usual cooing) as the male tries to attract the female to his nest site. I hear this dove moaning frequently but not the doves. The sound carries a long way. Most likely they are nesting; and they will continue nesting until winter when it gets too cold. For you that may not happen and the doves nest year around as long as they can find food. Dove behaviors are almost identical to pigeons. I once had a very old pair of ring-neck doves that built a nest. The female was too old to lay normal eggs but did produce one yolkless egg. I gave them a homer's egg that they hatched and raised; odd to see this big baby being fed by the smaller doves.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'll have to listen for them. I've got so much racket going on with the Jays and Woodpeckers I may not be able to hear them. Oh yeah, and the Guineas. 

That would have been the time for a pic. How did it turn out in the end?


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

I grew up with mourning doves and always liked them. I'm sure I will have more questions regarding the pigeons, I'd like to get a few to start with in the next month.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> I'll have to listen for them. I've got so much racket going on with the Jays and Woodpeckers I may not be able to hear them. Oh yeah, and the Guineas.
> 
> That would have been the time for a pic. How did it turn out in the end?


*The doves were successful in raising the homer squab.*


Poultry Judge said:


> I grew up with mourning doves and always liked them. I'm sure I will have more questions regarding the pigeons, I'd like to get a few to start with in the next month.


*When I was a teen I tried to have my pigeons raise mourning doves; didn't work. It wasn't until I became much older did I realize why. Squabs signal their parents to fed by reaching up and tickling the side of the parent's beak. The tiny dove squabs could not reach that far and starved.*


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

An excellent read so far! I’m definitely more open to the idea of having a some type of them in future... Definitely interesting! 

And I would say you are not the only one Dan, just the only one this passionate about it, and that’s not a bad thing.  I think you have successfully converted a few of us already.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Overmountain1 said:


> An excellent read so far! I’m definitely more open to the idea of having a some type of them in future... Definitely interesting!
> 
> And I would say you are not the only one Dan, just the only one this passionate about it, and that’s not a bad thing.  I think you have successfully converted a few of us already.


*I'd happily continue with "pigeons" but need some input as to what people would like to know; I've pretty much covered the basics. I guess next the post will be on nesting boxes and feed for pigeons and doves.*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*OM-Kimmi has been talking about your most recent text and has asked me to reply. Avian vets are hard to come by and when you find one, they may not have any answers, but still charge an arm and a leg. When we were in northern WI there was no avian vet anywhere and the regular vet passed bird problems on to me admitting to her customers she knew little about birds. Shellless eggs-If the bird is young, eggs with no shell are not all that uncommon and the problem straightens out on its own. It could be dietary; just because the birds are being fed a good diet does not mean they're eating it. Birds will eat their favorite foods, exclusively, even if it is unhealthy. Kimmi has already told you of hard-boiled egg with the shell. Parasites can also cause shellless eggs because they drain the bird's body of needed nutrients, so worming your flock is a good idea. Worm meds can be bought at most feed stores-Tractor Supply- or other stores that carry pet supplies. It can also be bought online. An avian vet isn't needed for worming; the vet would just give you the meds at a higher price and you'll still have to do the administrating. It's unfortunate that egg laying problems can be genetic, but in most cases it isn't. A person needs to be a Sherlock Holmes with birds at times. I have a serama hen I keep in the house with Pablo. She is one that has genetic problems in laying eggs. Once in the while she lays a normal egg or an egg with no shell. More often the hen goes in her nest box, does everything a hen does when egg laying, but no egg is laid. This nest, the hen laid two eggs with no shell and seven noneggs. With each attempt I put a normal egg in her nest up to 5. She is now brooding the five eggs. I had given her some guinea eggs that Kimmi brought home, but when only a single egg started developing I gave her five fresh eggs to brood and put the guinea egg under another hen who had a small clutch of eggs.*


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

Thanks Dan- I’m on a mission today for sure; there is also a co-op not far from here. It SAYS they treat every other farm animal so it’s worth me checking in today I think. 

As for avian vet- I’ll be headed toward the DVM school at UT in Knoxville- they do definitely have some that specialize in chickens; I was referred there by another chicken vet I talked to who is in NC- it’s really nuts. So I def would find treatment but you’re right it may end up an arm and a leg. 
I’m gonna get the snack in her now if possible and see what else I can find out before I drive almost 2 hours away. Hopefully won’t need to.....


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I had one that it took the better part of year to start laying solid eggs. Everytime she laid a thin shelled or no shell egg I'd begin to dose her with the calciboost. She'd straighten out for a while and then I'd have to dose her again.

Kimmi is right. Avian vets are not always the best choice. Someone years ago drove her bird to the big city to an Avian vet. That vet said the bird was hopeless, it was time to put him down. The owner knew better, took him home, treated him the way most had already told her to do and he recovered.

About worming, take as clean as possible dropping samples from three or four places. Have the vet do a fecal to determine if there are any internal parasites and what they might be. Different parasites require different wormers.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

danathome said:


> *The doves were successful in raising the homer squab.
> 
> 
> When I was a teen I tried to have my pigeons raise mourning doves; didn't work. It wasn't until I became much older did I realize why. Squabs signal their parents to fed by reaching up and tickling the side of the parent's beak. The tiny dove squabs could not reach that far and starved.*


Thanks Dan, that is interesting about the squab communication!


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Food-Pigeons and doves are basically seed eaters, though they do have preferences. A favored treat of mine is unhealthy white bread; the softer the better. This morning, when an older hen saw the babies being fed, came and ate from my hand; white bread is irresistable to pigeons. Other foods include scratch feed, cracked and whole corn, about any seeds, mashes of all sorts, and fresh mowed lawn. When ever the yard is mowed the whole flock can be seen walking over it and eating the new shoots brought on by mowing; possibly some insects too.*
*
When hand feeding, I use white bread because it rolls into small pellets easily. These pellets are then dipped in soupy mass of game bird mash and fed to the squabs. Syringes work OK, but have a tendency to clog or wear out when the plunger swells, so, for me, it's easier to have the squabs feed between my fingers, which the squabs see as their parent's bill, or squeeze either side of the bill until they open up the insert the food with the other hand. As the squabs grow, they are introduced to dry mash and then seed. While they, wean at about month of age, I continue to offer them some white bread in he palm of my hand.
*
*Now that the flock has seen the babies being fed by hand they are coming closer and closer. This morning the whole flock was about 1 to 4 feet away, watching, gobbling pieces tossed to them. The flock is truly a beautiful sight, whether they be feeding, flying, bathing, or just walking across a green lawn.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

LOL And I was thinking gamebird feed. I knew better but that's where my head went.

Those moving in closer are the other adult pigeons that weren't hand raised?


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

Dan- thanks again- so- none of my Wyandotte’s eat anything I give them. I’m not joking. I have offered them all the same stuffs as the rest and they never- NEVER eat them! No fruits. No veggies. Just treat treat type items, feed, and forage. I’m sure that’s fine but it’s so funny to me. Not apples, bananas, any part of an egg, not strawberries- occasionally a blueberry so there’s one thing- umm- anyway they’re so weird. So she won’t eat egg but is acting somewhat better today. She’s walked all over w her other 2, and she’s been under the bush w them for a while now. Bright eyes and didn’t just LET me catch her like she has been, she actually evaded and threw some wings! 
So- she’s feeling somewhat better but I gotta get her straight before it happens again- like now. Today just has been a mess. But she’s doing ok, I wanted to add!


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> LOL And I was thinking gamebird feed. I knew better but that's where my head went.
> 
> Those moving in closer are the other adult pigeons that weren't hand raised?


*Yes and I am surprised at this very fast change of behavior... all because of a fondness for white bread. Game bird feed was used a lot and is.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Overmountain1 said:


> Dan- thanks again- so- none of my Wyandotte’s eat anything I give them. I’m not joking. I have offered them all the same stuffs as the rest and they never- NEVER eat them! No fruits. No veggies. Just treat treat type items, feed, and forage. I’m sure that’s fine but it’s so funny to me. Not apples, bananas, any part of an egg, not strawberries- occasionally a blueberry so there’s one thing- umm- anyway they’re so weird. So she won’t eat egg but is acting somewhat better today. She’s walked all over w her other 2, and she’s been under the bush w them for a while now. Bright eyes and didn’t just LET me catch her like she has been, she actually evaded and threw some wings!
> So- she’s feeling somewhat better but I gotta get her straight before it happens again- like now. Today just has been a mess. But she’s doing ok, I wanted to add!


That first pic. I don't know what to say about it. She looks like those people that roll their heads when they're getting all hot under the collar about something.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

danathome said:


> *Yes and I am surprised at this very fast change of behavior... all because of a fondness for white bread. Game bird feed was used a lot and is.*


So there's a better than even chance you'll have all of the flock crawling all over you before too long?


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> So there's a better than even chance you'll have all of the flock crawling all over you before too long?


*Possible. I'm about to go out and give all the animals a treat-we'll see.*


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

robin416 said:


> That first pic. I don't know what to say about it. She looks like those people that roll their heads when they're getting all hot under the collar about something.


I know! That one cracked me up too, I had a few others where she was less.... derpy? But that was funny so. Yay Oink! She has dust bathed and everything today. All is better for the most part, although she will need a bath tomorrow for sure.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

danathome said:


> *Possible. I'm about to go out and give all the animals a treat-we'll see.*


*The entire flock, minus one cock bird who was brooding his eggs, came down for white bread. The older hen ate out of my hand along with the babies. Her mate came within inches but was to afraid so I tossed him and the rest bits of bread. It will be interesting to see just how tame wild pigeons can get. These birds are from a feral flock that went wild and took over all the old farm buildings (the birds that were not wanted and released to make it on their own). It's pretty obvious they were bringing home wild hens from elsewhere as some squabs that hatch are the wild grey. Until now, they have had no close contact with people.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

That is so neat. It's got to feel pretty darned good to have even the wild birds coming right to you. And it really hasn't taken long because the babies have only been out there a short while.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> That is so neat. It's got to feel pretty darned good to have even the wild birds coming right to you. And it really hasn't taken long because the babies have only been out there a short while.


*It does. I'm hoping to get Kimmi out there on a warm day to take pictures. I really need a new camera. Today was a bad day and I mentioned waiting a bit before taking on the task of hand feeding more. Surprisingly, this upset Kimmi as she misses feeding the babies. So, I won't be waiting a bit. The next two should be ready to pull in about four/five days.*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*When it comes to nest sites, pigeons are not picky; any relatively flat surface in out of the weather. So trees-no. Under a bush-no. Inside a bluebird house-definitely not. Rain gutters-yes. Under bridges and over passes-yes. Rooftops-yes. Windowsills-yes. Beams and rafters-yes. Basement rafters-yes. Old cupboards-yes. Just about anywhere that's big enough and a few feet off the ground. On the ground for some doves and nonflighted pigeon breeds. Wild pigeons in their native land (Europe, Asia, and North Africa) nest on cliff faces; hence the name "Rock Dove". The one thing all pigeon nests share is ease of accessability; a place that is easy for their large bodies to fly in and out.*

*Many dove species are more particular about nest sites, but again, it needs to be a fairly flat place. As mentioned earlier, pigeons and doves are not good nest constructers. Unlike pigeons, doves prefer a secluded place; pines with their layered branches are a favorite, but dove nests can be found in just about any kind of tree. One pair we had in WI nested each time, and each year, across the yard in a neighbor's rain gutter. Most small species like full foliage to hide their nests in often using small baskets put there by people for the doves to use. I once had a pair of diamond doves that liked nesting in a half coconut shell. So, don't make plans for a dove bird house; though the plans for a robin house would possibly work. You're more likely to attract a nesting pair of doves by bending some tree or bush branches so the are horizontal and tying it that way.

From google images. The first is a robin house.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

OK, this isn't good. You've got me thinking about what or where I can entice a pair of doves to nest where I can watch them. We're a stop off for Robins heading North so no nesting happens here. 

BTW, the wren is nesting again over the light fixture. If I announce I'm walking out of the door most of the time she stays in the nest. If I forget, she flies off.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

what or where I can entice a pair of doves to nest 
*
Try the robin box put in a shady place...like in the 1st picture.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Just what I was thinking. Probably too late for the season now since I haven't seen any of the dove in quite a while now.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Robin-think year around. They may have a nest now but they will be building another nest soon and another and another...*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

OK, I'm going to start watching the backside of my house to see if I can put a nest there. I need to see if the sun is going to be a problem. I've got really deep eaves but are they deep enough? I can't come up with any other places, like the trees where they would have any safety.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*I have seen many dove nest under eaves; rather like your wrens so if you put your robin house there in a easy place to get at; you just might get them interested-especially if there is no suitable trees. Try to place the house a bit low from the eaves; ten inches to a foot. And you are right-definitely out of direct sunlight though our rain gutter pair were in direct sun; totally not usual.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Yeah, that would be a problem if I put it that low. Being down here the sun is really intense so putting it on the back side of the house would be out. The side the wren nest is on has too many doorways. I'm already dealing with her not being totally comfortable with me coming and going.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Most doves will sit perfectly still until they know they're in trouble. If they nested close to a busier area, you probably wouldn't know they were there. They have no irritating warning call that goes on and on like some other species that are a pain when they nest close to habitation. Putting the box higher to avoid the sun might work.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'll keep studying on it.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Another way to attract doves is to have a bird bath if there isn't a natural form of water nearby and a plain tray birdfeeder.*
*Scattering a little birdseed on a small patch of bare ground works as well as a feeder.
*
*Now I'll let you ponder it. If you have questions I'll try to answer.*


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Thanks Dan!


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*AGAIN I WAS LOGGED OUT FOR NO REASON AND HAD TO DO THE CAPTCHA THING TO LOG IN
*
_*
Pigeons and doves-what to tell about now--------Story time!
*_
*Back in Wisconsin, a decade ago, I had four ring-neck doves. When I bought them they were supposed to be two pair; they weren't-one male and three females. Doves are monogamous-ya right! The pair were quick to build a nest and lay two eggs. And then another nest was under construction and two more eggs appeared. AND THEN another nest was under construction and, you guessed it, two more eggs were laid. All three females now had nests. The male? All day, each day, he went from one nest to the next giving each hen a long break as he brooded the eggs. And when the squabs hatched, the male went from nest to nest brooding and feeding squabs. All six babies were raised!*


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Wow, sounds like a lot of work! I have heard of a pair keeping two nests going.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

That was actually a fun read. 

Dan, if you continue having issues post in the Announcements topic. The paid people get a notice when someone posts there.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Poultry Judge said:


> Wow, sounds like a lot of work! I have heard of a pair keeping two nests going.


*A pair having two nests going at once is pretty common, but one male having three nesting mates; very uncommon!*


robin416 said:


> That was actually a fun read.
> *Thanks.*
> Dan, if you continue having issues post in the Announcements topic. The paid people get a notice when someone posts there.


*Just did. Hope it helps.*


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

danathome said:


> *A pair having two nests going at once is pretty common, but one male having three nesting mates; very uncommon!
> 
> Just did. Hope it helps.*


Thanks Dan! Also, I did not know that one male could have three nesting mates.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Poultry Judge said:


> Thanks Dan! Also, I did not know that one male could have three nesting mates.





Poultry Judge said:


> Thanks Dan! Also, I did not know that one male could have three nesting mates.


*Not usual behavior and I saw it happen just the one time.*


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## Animals45 (May 11, 2021)

Hania41806 said:


> Oh my, so that's what they're called! Pygmy pouters are a bit terrifying 😂. English carriers are even more terrifying. I love pigeons all the same though!


Looks like a brain on it's beak. What is it?


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

English Carrier Pigeon.


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## Animals45 (May 11, 2021)

danathome said:


> English Carrier Pigeon.


Wow, looks rare, is it?


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*This newly mated pair has decided the loft is too crowded and are just beginning to build their nest...on the air conditioner.... a foot or two from where I sit to have coffee, etc. 

I wrote this this morning, but when I went to take the picture, the camera broke. I have the new one and it leaves me baffled. The manual either skips, to vague, or doesn't explain.

This afternoon, I took pity on them and their attempts to build on a flat slippery surface and put a heavy ceramic dish there for the nest to be built on. When I get the camera figured out I'll post a picture; if the pair doesn't find a better place for a nest.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Such a kind heart. Now you're going to get to watch the whole process take place.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*He picked a real dumb spot for a nest; in the sun and an easy dive for hawks and owls. I'm waiting to see if SHE will accept the location or tell the twit to keep looking. Yes, it would be fun to watch the whole process. They know I'm close but my presence doesn't seem to be a problem.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Would they forgive you if you put a protective shield up she does say yes?


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Would they forgive you if you put a protective shield up she does say yes?


That's what I was thinking.


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## Animals45 (May 11, 2021)

Poultry Judge said:


> That's what I was thinking.


True.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Yes, once they lay an egg I think they would be OK with that. They have gotten quite tame, evidenced by their willingness to sit so close to me while house hunting. If it weren't for the pane of window glass I could reach out and touch them; really, not 2 feet from my chair.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Makes you wonder if this nest placement is intentional, close to their favorite human.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Makes you wonder if this nest placement is intentional, close to their favorite human.


*Good Morning.*

*I have wondered that and would believe it to be true if these were hand feds, but they're not-though they are starting to eat out of my hand. The whole flock is gone this morning foraging except the two youngest being hand fed and a few on eggs/squabs.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I hope those on the fly stay safe with the new predator in the neighborhood.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> I hope those on the fly stay safe with the new predator in the neighborhood.


*All have returned and the pair are back on the air conditioner. SHE seems to have given her approval to the site; go figure. Second stage "moaning and wing flipping" If nothing happens actual nest building will begin this afternoon or tomorrow.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

What is wing flipping?


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> What is wing flipping?


*Exactly what it says. When the pair sits in their chosen spot, they preen each other, make moaning/groaning sounds, and flip the end of their wings/wiggle them back and forth. It's a part of their pair bonding ritual.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I think I'm thinking wrong. When I think of wing flipping I think of wing rotating.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*The ends of the wings flick up and down rapidly.*


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

robin416 said:


> I think I'm thinking wrong. When I think of wing flipping I think of wing rotating.


There used to be a Prince song, "When the Doves Cry".


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

danathome said:


> *The ends of the wings flick up and down rapidly.*


Huh, I need to see if I can dig a video up when they do that. It sounds truly interesting.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Poultry Judge said:


> There used to be a Prince song, "When the Doves Cry".


Love that song.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*The moaning sounds like someone is in pain; crying. Pigeons and doves do this. Often, a person can hear a mourning dove (how they got their name) moaning and groaning in the distance. It's actually male doves calling their mates to a desirable nest site and convincing the hens that THIS is the best place. *

*So "mourning" is not for time of day but for sadness in losing someone.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Well, that didn't work. Seems pigeons have all sorts of different mating behaviors.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Huh, I need to see if I can dig a video up when they do that. It sounds truly interesting.


*Check this out. It does show wing flipping/flicking.*

*Super Fast Pigeon Pairing SUCCESS!! - YouTube*
https://www.youtube.com › watch


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

That was cool. And the wing flipping wasn't anything like I was thinking.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Well, that didn't work. Seems pigeons have all sorts of different mating behaviors.


Peafowl are entertaining with their noise and nonsense. There is some current legislation in Los Angeles County, I believe, because they are so noisy. One reporter said they sound like a crying baby being tortured with a microphone.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

That was a laugh out loud analogy.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

robin416 said:


> That was a laugh out loud analogy.


The chickens don't wake me up but certain patterns of the peafowl calls will if they think something is going on.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Yes, that's like me understanding the different Guinea voices. Ignore those voices and someone suffers for it.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*As predicted nest building has begun. I took a plastic milk crate and tipped it on its side, bungy corded to the air conditioner. That should take care of aerial attacks and provide shade. Another young male has moved in to the turkey shed and spent all day yesterday, moaning, trying to get his mate to join him; she's too afraid to go in-maybe today. 

Five new poults so far with eight more eggs to hatch. PJ-I candled this morning and all five are still developing; almost 1/2 way now. How many days does it take for them to hatch? My domestics take 26 days to be completely hatched out.*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*The honeymooners by their new house.




















These pictures remind me that I need to wash windows and clean the vinyl siding.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Yeah, whatever on the windows and siding. I need to do mine too but whatever.

This is going to be fun to see. Are you going to take the squabs to hand raise?


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Yeah, whatever on the windows and siding. I need to do mine too but whatever.
> 
> This is going to be fun to see. Are you going to take the squabs to hand raise?


*Not unless someone wants to buy them hand fed. I'm just now finishing up on the last two that sold and wouldn't mind a break. I have to email the lady to come get the four this weekend.*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*The male dove in the turkey shed finally convinced his mate to join him, so they're building a nest now too. A third pair was on top of the crate in the window looking it over as a site, but they're not there today so the Mrs. vetoed the idea; good for her!*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

What a zoo. No lack of drama or goings on. Too bad it means so much work for you.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*The birds are not too much. Right now it's the constant attention to 19 puppies; they're a great deal of work-paid work and will soon be over. They are very nearly weaned. Some are spoken for. We never have enough for all the people wanting to buy. It always amazes me, that no matter how many, they all go. The hard part with some is the letting them go part.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Is it time to retire from so many puppies at one time? It's why I sold out with my show birds. There was no more enjoyment because I was so overworked.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Nope. The work lasts only for a few weeks; 3 to 6 weeks of age and there's usually not so many. Now that the rain has stopped and it's not so hot the puppies can be in a large pen outside. Normally, most would be sold by now, but with being sick for a month and the issue with Kimmi's Mom, we are behind with getting ads out and Kimmi does interviews to try and make sure none of the pups go to a bad situation. So, yes, this time it is way more difficult than usual.*


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

danathome said:


> *As predicted nest building has begun. I took a plastic milk crate and tipped it on its side, bungy corded to the air conditioner. That should take care of aerial attacks and provide shade. Another young male has moved in to the turkey shed and spent all day yesterday, moaning, trying to get his mate to join him; she's too afraid to go in-maybe today.
> 
> Five new poults so far with eight more eggs to hatch. PJ-I candled this morning and all five are still developing; almost 1/2 way now. How many days does it take for them to hatch? My domestics take 26 days to be completely hatched out.*


About the same. Good luck, I hope they all hatch!


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*The pair in the window has finally finished their nest and have gone on to, the driving stage, where the male chases-forces the hen to stay in the nest. Every time a hen leaves the nest in this stage the male drives the hen back; chases and pecks at his mate until she goes back to their nest. Eggs should be laid soon! Two eggs only, two days apart. The pair starts to brood as soon as the first egg is laid.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I could say something very sexist in the male's behavior but I'll keep it to myself. 😁


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Animal behavior and human behavior have loads in common.
*
I, originally, started hand feeding squabs in order to have very tame doves; it has worked out well. The tame babies fly around the yard with the "wild" flock. Well, it has been, "monkey see, monkey do". Every day, at least once, I take some bread out to the babies for a treat to eat out of my hand. In a short while the flock sat at a distance and watched. Gradually they came closer; each day closer. About a week ago one old hen worked up the courage to grab bits of bread from my hand. The rest came even closer to watch. Then each day, more grabbed bits of bread. Yesterday, the one dark dove in the flock, hopped on my arm and ate from my palm just like the hand fed birds.
Happily, I now have a whole flock of tame pigeons. The flock will never be as trusting as the hand feds but tame enough. When I go outside and coo loudly, the whole flock comes sailing through the air straight towards me; like the scene in Hitchcock's, The Birds. Unlike the other poultry, that comes running every time they see me, the doves only come when called.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

That's got to be a great part of your day when even the "wild" come to you with more trust than they had in the past.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> That's got to be a great part of your day when even the "wild" come to you with more trust than they had in the past.


*It was and is. I just came in from feeding them and a couple of the "wild" ones let me touch them/stroke their backs without backing off. I find the flock mesmerizing. I need a chair/stool/bench for outside.*


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

robin416 said:


> I could say something very sexist in the male's behavior but I'll keep it to myself. 😁


Really, I mean really?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Poultry Judge said:


> Really, I mean really?


Yeah, really.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

danathome said:


> *It was and is. I just came in from feeding them and a couple of the "wild" ones let me touch them/stroke their backs without backing off. I find the flock mesmerizing. I need a chair/stool/bench for outside.*


I'm surprised you don't have one centrally located for those breaks we all need to take when it's been a busy morning.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Last evening I noticed that another of the flock has moved from the loft to the turkey shed, so today's job is to make the turkey shed more dove friendly by adding perches up in the rafters that the other birds won't use and some nest boxes high up. I'd be happy if the whole flock relocated to the turkey shed. It would make their care a whole let easier.

I was surprised to see that one of the first squabs I hand fed has a mate already; time just flies by.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Wow, quick work on the mate thing.

Maybe the others will take the hint and do the same move.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Even if half move, it would make it easier. Three pair have their nest in the loft. I'd be surprised if they moved unless forced to; which I might do before winter. All it takes is to close the loft door and keep it closed until the birds get used to their new digs.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Are you certain they would move to the turkey shed? Would the others taking up residence be the incentive?


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## Animals45 (May 11, 2021)

Poultry Judge said:


> There used to be a Prince song, "When the Doves Cry".


Ha, Wow!


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*All the doves have gone to their roosts for the night, but one-the hen in the window nest. It look like she's brooding an egg. I'll leave her be and check in the morning. If she did lay, a second egg will be laid in two days; the evening of the 25th.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

So they actually end up with a staggered hatch?


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

They are staggered, aren't they Dan? By a day maybe?


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Yes. Doves secrete a special "milk" for the newly hatched. Not having them hatch the same day makes it easier for the parents to feed. Cockatiels, budgies, and other hook bills do the same.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Does that milk contain organisms to help protect the newly hatched.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

It has bacteria in it to help with digestion. Straight seed would be indigestable for the newly hatched.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I don't know why I even thought to ask that question but I learned something else.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

That is super interesting!


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Poultry Judge said:


> That is super interesting!


*I have had many pigeons/doves nest over the years, but this is about the first that I have a window seat to watch. I am surprised in that they HAVE NOT started to brood with the first egg; their first nest. I had thought that dove eggs had to be brooded right away in order to hatch. Now I will find out if that is true or not.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Heck, it might be hot enough right now for it to self incubate. I saw that a time or two in TN. It's also why I've given a date range with my Guinea hatch.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Today yes, it's hot outside. Last night was quite cool. The male is brooding now, but last night, after the egg was laid, the female stood over the egg as though she was protecting/not brooding. My gray hen turkey finally finished hatching yesterday; the oldest poults must be at least week old. I took the poults as they hatched, so the last ones would hatch too. I figure the weather had something to do with the staggered hatch. I gave her just the oldest poults to care for, then as the others get a bit bigger I'll return those too; if they don't sell first.*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*The second egg was laid last evening as predicted. Now, instead of standing over the egg, the parents are brooding as they should. These two eggs will hatch in 17 more days on the same day and not two days apart. 

When I checked on the birds last night, seven of the dove flock had moved into the turkey shed; one more will be half the flock-yeah! 

There's four squabs in the loft again so I'll need to see if there's someone who wants them. If not, it's time for birth control.

I'm still looking for Indian Fantails. I may have to bite the bullet and take a long drive across the state.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Do the drive. It will get you away for a bit and you'll see some new sites. Where are the ones that across the state?


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Do the drive. It will get you away for a bit and you'll see some new sites. Where are the ones that across the state?


*That I don't remember, would have to look it up, just know it is not close. With my legs and feet, there is no enjoyment riding in the car.*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*An interesting thing about dove eggs is there really is no need to candle. The eggs start white with a pinkish tinge due to the light passing through the shell. As the embryo develops the egg get a blueish tinge as it becomes more opaque.

Both eggs in the window nest are developing. Eight of the flock have now moved into the turkey shed. Time to put up more rafter roosts and nest boxes.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

That's wild as all get out. You don't have to do a thing but look and know there's development. I wonder if the parents see that.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> That's wild as all get out. You don't have to do a thing but look and know there's development. I wonder if the parents see that.


*Doves are very intelligent in the bird world, able to learn a great deal. As such I think they can see what I see; maybe not their first nest, but... *


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*A rat snake invaded a nest and took a squab, so now I'm hand feeding the second squab; a beautiful all white dove-couldn't leave it for the snake's next lunch.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Dang it, I wish there was a way you could remove all of the snakes. I get how hard it is to find them in their hideouts.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*In the case of the doves, I try to think of it as birth control.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

That's actually pretty awful.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

robin416 said:


> That's actually pretty awful.


Well, nature and all that, I think about that with my battle with the racoons and opossums this year.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I know, I know. Luckily I'm not so spread out that it's impossible to keep the predators at bay. Although I do believe the rattlesnake I killed last week is who got all of the guinea eggs.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*It is pretty awful and I do wish it otherwise.

It would be better if they ate the eggs before they hatched. I rather think the snakes are what's causing the doves to move to the turkey shed
where they can nest and roost high in the rafters.*


----------



## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)




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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

This is awful, those babies are so ugly. They're like Maryellen's babies in the starting off nothing like what they grow into being.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Yes, just as helpless and about the same size at hatch. The air conditioner babies in the window..


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Really? Already? It seems like those eggs were just laid.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Really? Already? It seems like those eggs were just laid.


*The eggs were laid 18 and 20 days ago-18 day incubation period. The squabs just hatched. Time flies by.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

It does. It does not feel like it's been that long. I need to mark when Maisey entered my life. She's got me so messed up I'm not sure what day of the week it is anymore.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*You're right, it doesn't seem that long. I was surprised this morning when I saw the mother feeding, but a glance at the calendar showed that today was the day. How are you and Maisey getting along? My little Sally used the pee pad for the first time today. My luck that I'd be fond of a slow learner; she'll get through life, not on her brains, but by having a cute face. Sally is the puppy I posted-the one straight from...*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

The same one I said couldn't possible be a demon? 

We're working on it. At 8 weeks we've got a long ways to go. I won't take her to TSC with me anymore, she can do to doggy daycare.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I just realized the bird's eye view you have. (no pun intended) If you could sit there quietly with your coffee the entire time they are tending to the littles that would be special.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

="robin416, post: 205337, member: 6488"]
The same one I said couldn't possible be a demon? *Yes.*

We're working on it. At 8 weeks we've got a long ways to go. I won't take her to TSC with me anymore, she can do to doggy daycare. *Oh-oh, that doesn't sound good.*
[/QUOTE]




robin416 said:


> I just realized the bird's eye view you have. (no pun intended) If you could sit there quietly with your coffee the entire time they are tending to the littles that would be special. *Where I sit with my coffee is between 1 and 2 feet away from the nest. My presence doesn't bother them at all. If someone else comes anywhere near, the parents are immediately gone to the tree top.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

She absolutely had to meet everyone in the store. I took her to Petsmart last week, there were very few people and that went well. TSC had lots more people. I ended up putting her puppy butt in a cart while I loaded a flat bed with feed. 

That really is special. They know who you are by sight and are not afraid.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> She absolutely had to meet everyone in the store. I took her to Petsmart last week, there were very few people and that went well. TSC had lots more people. I ended up putting her puppy butt in a cart while I loaded a flat bed with feed.
> *I suppose that could get trying after awhile; especially if one is in a hurry to get going.*
> That really is special. They know who you are by sight and are not afraid.


*I think so. The whole flock is getting like that. I never know when one will land on my shoulders and not always a hand fed. Funny and a bit irritating is how they completely disappear when a stranger is around and the minute they're gone the whole flock descends on me in mass; no showing the flock to anyone. At times I feel a little like Dr. Dolittle.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

LOL I wouldn't mind my Guineas disappearing when strangers arrive. I can only yell shut up and hope they listen. 

But it's what you were striving for and it's paying off in spades.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> LOL I wouldn't mind my Guineas disappearing when strangers arrive. I can only yell shut up and hope they listen.
> 
> But it's what you were striving for and it's paying off in spades.


*Actually, I was hoping the flock would take to strangers and help in the selling of birds showing just how great birds can be-well, that's not going to happen. Even the birds in the window just vanish when there's company.

I put ten quail eggs under a serama this morning and the pair I'm hoping go broody have six eggs in their (nest). The fact that the hen is laying in one place instead of just dropping the eggs wherever is a good sign that she may go broody. If she is a broody type, she should start nest building with egg 8, 9, or 10.

The people never came for the extra trio so I still have all five. *


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

It does show they're willing to be a part of humans. Does your run have a cover so you can demonstrate how tame they are? Seems like you had them flying to you when you had some people there to buy.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> It does show they're willing to be a part of humans. Does your run have a cover so you can demonstrate how tame they are? Seems like you had them flying to you when you had some people there to buy.


*No run, the flock flies free. From what I've seen the hawks have given up on catching them. They are very keen eyed and rapid fliers. It would take a peregrine to catch them. There have been a number of times when they had come to eat bread from my hands and something scares them and they head for the skies. I assume they have seen the hawk while I don't see anything. The few times I have seen the local hawk, the flock has taken to the sky and made fast sweeping circles around the property for a half hour or more. For ground predators (strangers) they fly to the tops of the pines. I find the flock fascinating. This morning I neglected to take bread and spend time with them. I was talking with Kimmi while she watched her true crime crapola. Pretty soon we had doves at the windows looking for me.*
*
The young hand feds trusted everyone at first, but seemed to have learned from the flock to not be so trusting, but at the same time the hand feds taught the flock to trust me. They do not trust Kimmi, much to her dismay.
*
*While I am not looking to get more birds overall, I would still like to find the Indian fantails. One of these days... *


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Yep, it's one of the downsides of having mixed training with them. 

I guess they weren't going to let you get away with not giving them their morning treats.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

A disappointment-one of the window squabs died; I blame this hateful weather. It would have been a beautiful white dove-dang. The whites are the best when they're flying; they just sparkle in the sunlight.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

danathome said:


> A disappointment-one of the window squabs died; I blame this hateful weather. It would have been a beautiful white dove-dang. The whites are the best when they're flying; they just sparkle in the sunlight.


I'm sorry Dan.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Thanks. I cleaned, sterilized, new dry bedding for the nest, and dusted for parasites. I hope the remaining squab makes it. It is rare for squabs to sicken when they are being so well taken care of. While I don't need more doves, these were special. I don't like seeing any of the birds suffer.*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Two weeks and three days old; baby on the air conditioner. MY VERY FIRST PHOTO!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

It's grown a lot. I guess since it's now a single it gets extra calories.

First pic as in first with the new camera or new baby?


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> It's grown a lot. I guess since it's now a single it gets extra calories.
> 
> First pic as in first with the new camera or new baby?


1st picture with my new cell phone, but it is also the pair's first squab. The squabs growth is normal whether there was one or two in the nest. Doves have always been a symbol of love and peace-and it fits. They are very affectionate to their mate and babies, spending time together preening each other-really sweet to watch.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'll tell you what, some of the changes they made to the platform are kind of nice. I can just drag pics from my computer to the forum. I don't use my phone for the forum very much but even that isn't that hard.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Yes. I drag the pictures from the desktop to the forum, but something has to be used to take the pictures with. Learning how to use the camera and getting the downloaded onto the computer has been a pain. Kinmi spent most of the day yesterday figuring out what I couldn't; nothing was easy to do and for no obvious reason-just a pain.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

If they could all be the same it would be wonderful. I know when I got the Mac it became even easier with my Iphone. Problem is, we're at an age where patience is very, very short. And in some areas non existent.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

It is obvious that a lot of the problems is my older laptop. And yes, we have lost patience...


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

danathome said:


> It is obvious that a lot of the problems is my older laptop. And yes, we have lost patience...


Ah patience, I think I remember patience. Now I'm just old and cranky.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

I am making progress. My pictures don't beat Kimmi's, but definitely an improvement over my other efforts.










A problem I'm having is that the image is shown far away in the original picture no matter how close I am to the subject, then when it's enlarged, a lot of detail is gone. Always blurry because of moving subjects and shaking hands.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Not knowing your phone I can't give you a lot of help. But you should be able to zoom in on them before taking the pic. You've seen how people enlarge something by using two fingers to make what they're looking at bigger? You can do the same when taking a pic. 

That is a nice pic by the way. I do see what you mean about the fuzz on the bird in the background. I'm not a great photographer so I'm the last person to give you advice. Kimmi should be a good resource. Ask her but make sure you're doing the steps to do stuff and not her so it locks into your brain better.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Not knowing your phone I can't give you a lot of help. But you should be able to zoom in on them before taking the pic. You've seen how people enlarge something by using two fingers to make what they're looking at bigger? You can do the same when taking a pic.
> 
> That is a nice pic by the way. I do see what you mean about the fuzz on the bird in the background. I'm not a great photographer so I'm the last person to give you advice. Kimmi should be a good resource. Ask her but make sure you're doing the steps to do stuff and not her so it locks into your brain better.


I've much to learn. I know about the two finger thing, but... Practice and more practice...


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

LOL I was going to say patience but I'm kidding myself, I don't have any more of that than you do.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Twenty-nine days old and will soon be leaving the nest to join the flock.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

NIght and day difference from the last pic. Truly amazing.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Yes, they grow fast. Another week or so it will be totally on its own. I am surprised the parents haven't started another nest already.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Would they start in a new place? Or are they just waiting for him to move of their basement?


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Would they start in a new place? Or are they just waiting for him to move of their basement?


Either is a possibility. I'd just as soon they take their time. Many eggs and squabs in the turkey shed and loft. From now on, one egg from each nest will be tossed.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

The squab at 31 days old has flown from the nest. I can see from the parent's behavior, already, that a new nest will soon be built in the same spot.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

They are going to be coming out of your ears at this point. Feathered ones are taking over the Dan TN homestead.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

You may be right. A new nest is being built on the air conditioner and they seem to be hurrying. Their first nest was weeks in the making. This time the nest is being built in a matter of hours.

I rather think I need to check all the dove nests and start tossing out eggs. Just one from each nest; take both and the pair will quickly lay two more. I have to talk with Gus (guy I bought from) as I know he sells extras to someone that like to eat squab. It's actually tasty; rather like pheasant.

Call ducklings are supposed to hatch Monday, but Cher has not come off the nest today as she always has at feeding time---so I candled the one duck egg in the incubator; it has internally pipped. Perhaps I will finally get a good hatch.

For the last two months everything has been hatching early; 1 to 2 days early. At first I thought I had counted wrong, but I didn't count wrong every time-odd. 24 hours after incubation starts is day 1 and so on...


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

I was definitely right in thinking the pair was in a hurry. Below shows what appeared in the nest one day after they started building a new nest.











I took the picture from inside the house because it was raining. I'm very sure the first baby was pushed out of the nest as it can not fly; I've put the squab in the loft where the parents can feed it in safety.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Since the flock numbers over twenty (including squabs), I'm giving the doves serama eggs to hatch. Yes, it will work as I have had pigeons hatch chicks in the past.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

OK, laughing. What a cartoon show. Shove baby out early because we're in a hurry here.


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## Animals45 (May 11, 2021)

danathome said:


> Since the flock numbers over twenty (including squabs), I'm giving the doves serama eggs to hatch. Yes, it will work as I have had pigeons hatch chicks in the past.


Hope they will feel good hatching serema eggs. Haha, joking. When are they due to hatch?


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*This is one of my "wild" doves; the first to accept eating from my hand many, many weeks ago. Her mate followed suit yesterday and now follows me around the yard wanting a handout.









My first real close-up.*


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## Animals45 (May 11, 2021)

danathome said:


> *This is one of my "wild" doves; the first to accept eating from my hand many, many weeks ago. Her mate followed suit yesterday and now follows me around the yard wanting a handout.
> 
> View attachment 41993
> 
> My first real close-up.*


Gorgeous!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

You're having too much fun with this phone camera now. LOL


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> You're having too much fun with this phone camera now. LOL


My cell phone takes way better pictures than my camera ever did.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> You're having too much fun with this phone camera now. LOL


Practicing "Edit".


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Cut back some on the brightness or exposure when taking pics of bright white birds. You're losing definition with it that bright. 

Do I sound like I know what I'm talking about. Not even a little.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Cut back some on the brightness or exposure when taking pics of bright white birds. You're losing definition with it that bright.
> 
> Do I sound like I know what I'm talking about. Not even a little.


But you do know what you're talking about; all it takes is a good eye. Thank you. I can not change the exposure (?)but perhaps I can change the amount of light(?) entering the lens.

*When I looked through all the cell's picture capabilities, there nothing to make changes on the cell itself. No whites in bright sun can be photographed without losing definition.










Better?*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Yes, you can see more feather definition. It might be a lighting issue with your phone.

Once you download them to your computer, if that's what you're doing, you can fiddle with them.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*BREAD! WE WANT MORE BREAD!*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

*Soft bread is a favored treat to the flock especially those with squabs. Pigeons feed their young by regurgitation. Anyone who has watched a pigeon feed its squab knows it's not a comfortable thing for the birds to do. When the birds have squabs they look for softer foods that make regurgitation easier. Unfortunately, white bread is not nutritious so I limit how much they get and increase mashes and pellets instead.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

We've created a monster. One who has figured out his camera on the phone.

I was thinking with that many birds you might want to buy some stock in a bread company.


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## SilkieGirl (Apr 29, 2021)

robin416 said:


> I was thinking with that many birds you might want to buy some stock in a bread company.


LOL. That might be a good idea.


danathome said:


> *BREAD! WE WANT MORE BREAD!*
> 
> View attachment 42013
> 
> ...


They are adorable!


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

robin416 said:


> *We've created a monster. One who has figured out his camera on the phone.*
> 
> I was thinking with that many birds you might want to buy some stock in a bread company.


*What? You're getting tired of my photos already? Too bad, so sad.*


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

SilkieGirl said:


> LOL. That might be a good idea.
> *
> They are adorable!*


*Yes, They truly are!







*


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

danathome said:


> *Soft bread is a favored treat to the flock especially those with squabs. Pigeons feed their young by regurgitation. Anyone who has watched a pigeon feed its squab knows it's not a comfortable thing for the birds to do. When the birds have squabs they look for softer foods that make regurgitation easier. Unfortunately, white bread is not nutritious so I limit how much they get and increase mashes and pellets instead.*


Do you soften any of your mashes?


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Poultry Judge said:


> Do you soften any of your mashes?


No need to; when the adults drink water the mash and pellets turn to a gruel-thick and soft.


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## Animals45 (May 11, 2021)

danathome said:


> *Yes, They truly are!
> View attachment 42034
> *


Your making me jealous now, I need some pigeons, Haha. Nice pictures!


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Animals45 said:


> Your making me jealous now, I need some pigeons, Haha. Nice pictures!


Those in the picture were taken from the parent's nest and hand fed which makes them tamer and more trusting.


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## Animals45 (May 11, 2021)

danathome said:


> Those in the picture were taken from the parent's nest and hand fed which makes them tamer and more trusting.


Wow, I like the birds that are more tame can't stand the ones when you get 9 feet within them they take off like your a predator.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Tame birds are nicer to have around, but they do cause problems because of their tameness. Intrusive, needy, always trying to get in the house, often underfoot, landing on a person's head, getting pooped on, etc. There are times I'm glad of the wildness of some birds.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

danathome said:


> Tame birds are nicer to have around, but they do cause problems because of their tameness. Intrusive, needy, always trying to get in the house, often underfoot, landing on a person's head, getting pooped on, etc. There are times I'm glad of the wildness of some birds.


I'm still working with the whistle for treats but not as consistently as I should. Around Fossil Ledges you can't go outside, have visitors or operate the grill on the back porch without being mobbed by turkeys, a couple brave chickens and peacock buzzard things. They are beggars one and all.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Poultry Judge said:


> I'm still working with the whistle for treats but not as consistently as I should. Around Fossil Ledges you can't go outside, have visitors or operate the grill on the back porch without being mobbed by turkeys, a couple brave chickens and peacock buzzard things. They are beggars one and all.


*They certainly are! My ducks are the worst for mobbing me and that's dangerous for the little call ducks. Last month one scooted under my foot as I stepped forward; dead-a beautiful black and white pied drake.*
*
So having tame birds does have its pitfalls. Even so, I wouldn't want it any other way; just have to be very careful at times.
*
*More storms today. It's dark out with thunder and lightning.*


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Poultry Judge said:


> I'm still working with the whistle for treats but not as consistently as I should. Around Fossil Ledges you can't go outside, have visitors or operate the grill on the back porch without being mobbed by turkeys, a couple brave chickens and peacock buzzard things. They are beggars one and all.
> View attachment 42080


Is Fossil Ledges having visitors again?


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Is Fossil Ledges having visitors again?


Yes, we are back doing beginner horse lessons and therapeutic riding. But not a single volunteer all Spring/Summer.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'm glad you're able to do that much. How do volunteers know what is going on?


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

robin416 said:


> I'm glad you're able to do that much. How do volunteers know what is going on?


As you know, I don't do the social media stuff. I guess Melissa does a little networking but she is busy now, back to school as a school nurse. So it's mostly me and the poultry, although we did have a sick thoroughbred last week.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Poultry Judge said:


> As you know, I don't do the social media stuff. I guess Melissa does a little networking but she is busy now, back to school as a school nurse. So it's mostly me and the poultry, although we did have a sick thoroughbred last week.


Is there anyone at all nearby that could help with the volunteer part?

How is the t-bred doing today?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Animals45 said:


> Any of you like these shirt's?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't let @Overmountain1 see those. She won't be able to help herself.


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## Animals45 (May 11, 2021)

robin416 said:


> Don't let @Overmountain1 see those. She won't be able to help herself.


Haha! She needs one then!


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Is there anyone at all nearby that could help with the volunteer part?
> 
> How is the t-bred doing today?


Bleu is better, we have to do another fecal in a week. The volunteers have been an issue for several years now. Fifteen years ago we would have three or four on any given weekend, now we have none. Covid has been very hard on animal nonprofits.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Is this from conditions he/she came from? It seemed like those the county in MD removed from bad conditions were always delicate even once their condition improved.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Poultry Judge said:


> Bleu is better, we have to do another fecal in a week. The volunteers have been an issue for several years now. Fifteen years ago we would have three or four on any given weekend, now we have none. Covid has been very hard on animal nonprofits.


Have you checked with the high schools and the courts (community service)? Many of the people that have to do community service are good people that made a wrong decision.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

danathome said:


> Have you checked with the high schools and the courts (community service)? Many of the people that have to do community service are good people that made a wrong decision.


Yes, over the years we have utilized all kinds of programs.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Poultry Judge said:


> Yes, over the years we have utilized all kinds of programs.


*How about the local churches? Many retired people would love to have somewhere to go and do. Craigslist and Facebook?*


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

danathome said:


> *How about the local churches? Many retired people would love to have somewhere to go and do. Craigslist and Facebook?*


Thanks Dan, churches have been good for volunteers over the years. Craigslist seems to be much less prominent now because many people use FB and FB Marketplace for so much.


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Poultry Judge said:


> Thanks Dan, churches have been good for volunteers over the years. Craigslist seems to be much less prominent now because many people use FB and FB Marketplace for so much.


You are welcome. I can't think of anything else nor can Kimmi.


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## lovely_chooks (Mar 19, 2021)

I never pet a pigeon I really want to touch one do they feel the same as chickens


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

lovely_chooks said:


> I never pet a pigeon I really want to touch one do they feel the same as chickens


Yes, they feel about the same to hold.


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## lovely_chooks (Mar 19, 2021)

danathome said:


> Yes, they feel about the same to hold.


Nice I want one


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Make sure you really want pigeons and it is not a whim. Pigeons need to be kept in pairs; a single bird would not be happy. Once you are really positive about this, let me know. But for now, just give it a lot of thought.


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## lovely_chooks (Mar 19, 2021)

danathome said:


> Make sure you really want pigeons and it is not a whim. Pigeons need to be kept in pairs; a single bird would not be happy. Once you are really positive about this, let me know. But for now, just give it a lot of thought.


I can’t even have pigeons rn I have no space and also I’m going to school so I’ll be super busy especially in highschool


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## Animals45 (May 11, 2021)

Yeah true. Your lucky you can own chickens with how busy you are with school and all.


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## lovely_chooks (Mar 19, 2021)

Animals45 said:


> Yeah true. Your lucky you can own chickens with how busy you are with school and all.


Yeah I have chickens because they are the best pets


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## Animals45 (May 11, 2021)

lovely_chooks said:


> Yeah I have chickens because they are the best pets


Yep, sure are!


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## Silo (7 mo ago)

The pigeons are so beautiful, in my yard a man built a house for them, he professionally deals with them. Traveled to exhibitions all over the world. Such beautiful pigeons


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## danathome (Sep 14, 2020)

Silo said:


> The pigeons are so beautiful, in my yard a man built a house for them, he professionally deals with them. Traveled to exhibitions all over the world. Such beautiful pigeons


Thank you. They are a delight to watch in my backyard.


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