# Quit claim deed and county offices and etc.



## seminole wind

It's only taken me 6 hours to find a reasonable explanation and form for a quit claim deed. That's where one spouse can give up their interest in a house. Then it's taken me hours of searching the county sites for the ADDRESS of the county clerk building. Sometimes things are so mumbo jumbo it makes it almost impossible to find a simple address! Not to mention which building to go to in a group of government buildings. And I get conflicting answers on what a legal property description is. All I get is numbers and letters pertaining to a book that has the "twenty steps east to 50 steps north, etc" and that takes up about 10 lines.

Then I find out that filing is $1250.00 for a filing stamp, but free if done within a year of divorce. So I have to find that out as well.

So I'll have to visit and get info. I got a lawyer off the internet who does non-show up in court divorce. He's called me once, and set explicit instructions.

This divorce is not for any reason other than having someone's mismanagement of money not affecting the house I own. Florida state has 50/50 divorce where if a house is purchased while married it becomes both spouse property. Even tho I sold a house in NY to buy another house NY and we got married prior to me taking that money and buying a house in Florida! How fair is that? That's a cloudy area.


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## robin416

If the house is in both names I can see why it would be 50/50. Every state is different on how they view a couple's finances. VA thinks the new spouse's income should be figured in when determining child support for the other spouse's child support if there are minor children. 

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. If his name is on the house then I doubt he's going to sign away his half without a fight.


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## seminole wind

He'll sign it. It wasn't his to begin with. As Florida law is, spouses split 50 50 on anything purchased during the marriage. However prior to the marriage, It's a cloudy area with me selling a home that was mine, buying and selling another house that was mine in NY, getting married and moving to Florida and using that money to buy another house. With someone who handles money poorly, I'll be darned if my house goes to pay debts or end up not having 100% go to my daughter. Furthermore, I don't want to be responsible for any one's debts. NY considers any one's debts their own if a credit card does not have their spouse's name on it, etc. In fla, your name doesn't have to be on it to be responsible.

I do not want to be responsible for another's debts, or share things that are mine because of a law. This is pure bs. Been there done that and cruelly. 18 years of warnings about divorce if running up credit cards is enough. I'm tired of not being taken seriously. I just want what is fair. During the past 13 years since married there has not been even a mortgage payment! He spent his retirement and i still have my 401k. Should I share that too? The law sucks and needs to be altered. 

I'm sorry to unload, but this stuff makes me crazy. And crazy I am!


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## robin416

If you're really going to do this you need to hire a real attorney, not one on the back of a matchbook. You need one familiar with FL property law. If he'll sign a quit deed the attorney will handle all of that and you won't be driving yourself nuts.


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## chickenqueen

I had to file a quit claim deed here in Ohio a few years ago.Though it wasn't necessary,I had a lawyer write it up for $125 and then I filed it.I don't remember if I had to pay a hundred or so for that but I do remember it wasn't that much.It was worth it.Good luck!!!


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## seminole wind

robin416 said:


> If you're really going to do this you need to hire a real attorney, not one on the back of a matchbook. You need one familiar with FL property law. If he'll sign a quit deed the attorney will handle all of that and you won't be driving yourself nuts.


He's a real attorney. He does not handle quit claim deeds, in his opinion he said I should get one.
I finally got the address of the county clerk and plan to go ask questions. It's recommended that I file following a divorce.

With the divorce, I fill out the papers he sent me, send them back, he inspects them , sends them to me for notary and signatures with witnesses.

I think I have a grasp of it now. I just get overwhelmed with having to hunt with simple information like instructions with no stupid address.

CQ, it appears that if I file now, the stamp is $1200+, and for a year after a divorce, the fee is waived, and I just pay $10.00

But I'll be checking with the county clerk and get specific instructions. If I can't do it, I can't. And the divorce is submitted by the lawyer.


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## Wilbur's Mom

Wow, bunch of legal stuff to jump through and FL is a tough state when it comes to spousal rights. Make the QC deed has the correct language, legal description ( which comes off your deed you got when you bought this house) and other language. I would suggest you get a real estate attorney in FL to prepare the QC deed and state that the purpose of the deed is pursuant to the divorce filed in ____(court where the divorce is filed), that should be what is needed to not pay the transfer taxes (tax stamp). I say this because if the QC deed has a mistake in it, you sell the house it could cause a title problem. I do real estate work, so I know what can come up if you get a deed off the internet...and the recording office at the courthouse cannot provide you with any legal answers to whether the deed is correct or not. Just refer you to the bar association obtain a real estate lawyer.


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## seminole wind

I will have to seriously think this over. Thanks.


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## Wilbur's Mom

Quite welcome. I hope this goes smoothly.


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## havasu

Seems like a quagmire. I hope it gets corrected by a knowledgeable person.


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## seminole wind

well I do have a month or two to get it done or investigate. I think I finished the paperwork for the divorce and now the lawyer needs to check it before we get it notarized.

We did financial statements and hubs actually owes double what I thought! I do think there's many people out there who are out of their comfort zone unless they're in debt up to their ears. 12 years with no mortgage or car payment-I have no answer for this.


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## Wilbur's Mom

Wow!!! double? Jeesh..your name isn't on anything is it that you weren't aware of?


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## seminole wind

No it's not. But Florida is screwed up. If he defaults on his credit cards, they can come after a spouse. However, it appears that creditors can't garnish one's social security, retirement, or car, or potentially a home with no mortgage. 

I was raised as not ever carrying debt. My parents had their first credit card when I was 13! They never had a car loan. My dad was military and my mom never worked. They were very good with money. 

After 11 years of my first marriage, my dead ex husband alcoholic, left the country owing debt that I got stuck with (in the days with spouses both being on the credit cards.) I got stuck paying his debts. I begged the bank to let me pay the money in my name . They said no. I asked for a lower interest rate. They said no. They emptied my savings, checking, and my daughter's savings. I cried for 3 days. They finally gave me back my last paycheck. This was all because all these accounts were at the same bank . I didn't keep my money in a bank for years. I paid off the debt. I paid my bills with 7-11 money orders. When I went for my first mortgage as a single person it was brought up, and I wrote out a letter about what I went thru and all the documentation. I got the mortgage.

Dead ex stopped paying child support. I then bullied him into signing the house over. He finally did. I refinanced in my name. I sold the house in 1994. I bought another. I ended up getting married in 2004, then selling the 2nd house and moving to florida months 6 months later! . I used that money to pay for my 3rd house in Florida. Now, in Florida it means that current hubs owns half! And I possibly own 1/2 of his debt! And his 4 sons could potentially end up with 1/2 of what my daughter should get (worst case scenario). And each son has a mother with a house of her own. My daughter has me.

Then, current hub spent his 401k from Florida. I did not , and I don't want to split it because he spent his. It cost me $7k two years ago to pay the upside down mortgage on a motor home he bought without me so he wouldn't have to pay the $500.00 month payment.

Bottom line is let this be a warning to other women. In the world of 2nd marriages, you need a lawyer's guidance to protect what you have. I had that in NY, but not in Florida. It stinks. Never assume marriage is forever, or a spouse can never touch anything in your name or you will never be responsible for someone's debts even the ones not in your name. I just hope I can enlighten as many people as possible, especially those young ones that are college age. It's just important that a woman can support herself and protect what she owns. I hope someone listens.


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## havasu

You should have either signed a pre-nup or had him sign a quit claim upon purchasing that last house.
This works both ways. When I met my ex, she came with the clothes on her back. She never worked. I bought her new cars every 3 years, and I did really good in real estate, always buying and upgrading as the years went by. Weeks after I retire, she confesses she has a boyfriend and has had one for the last 6 years. She used my money to hire the best attorney money could buy, then after realizing he wasn't as good as she assumed, she fired him, collected MY refund, then used My money to hire even a better attorney. I ended up walking away with my sanity only and gave her my $800k house.

I will never marry again. I live with my G/F, we split the bills 50/50, bought our house 50/50, and if things don't work out, we sell and get 50% of everything.

By the way, my G/F's deceased husband secretly got a credit card in HIS name, and maxed it out before he died, spending $20K. After he died, the credit card company demanded that my G/F pay off the debt. She refused, and got dinged on her FICO score for 3 years.


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## seminole wind

OMG! I'm sorry but I'm glad you shared that with me. Lovely world we live in. I think it's just starting to sink in and I keep telling myself "one step at a time". I am just not tough anymore. People don't play fair when it comes to money. The rest of us get $screwed.


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## chickenqueen

I learned life lessons the hard way.The house I have now,I bought myself and married a year later.With the last divorce I learned a house is not communal property if one had it before the marriage.I spent $40,000 on upgrades and remodels all the while,unbeknownst to me,him and his girl friend were just waiting or me to finish,then he left me.I had no claims to the house or even all the money I put in it.I was thrown out with nothing like trash.A very expensive lesson the hard way but it will never happen again.As a bonus,ex and girlfriend got married and 20 years later,they still cheat on each other.Karma!!!


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## seminole wind

That sucks. I know I'm not the only clueless naïve one in the world. It's like fine, property bought while one's married becomes owned by both spouses. But what about money? I have a clear paper trail that the money was mine. 

I figure being naïve is because if a person would never even think of doing it to another (that includes lying, cheating, stealing, etc) a person does not think in terms of someone else doing it , it's like not in their mental vocabulary.


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## chickenqueen

I may have gotten the shaft but I have a clear conscience.I may have lost money/material things but I still have my morals and self-respect.That which does not kill you only makes you stronger.......


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## Maryellen

If you get money and spend it on the house while married by law the spouse is entitled to some. If you get money and don't spend it while married on the marital house or to do stuff together it's yours and not the spouses. 
Some states have that rule


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## chickenqueen

States all have different laws.I was told prior to 1975 a spouse could sue a cheating spouse and their lover for monetary damages.It doesn't apply here now but some states do have that law.I personally think it's a good law,protecting the innocent.


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## robin416

chickenqueen said:


> States all have different laws.I was told prior to 1975 a spouse could sue a cheating spouse and their lover for monetary damages.It doesn't apply here now but some states do have that law.I personally think it's a good law,protecting the innocent.


GA had that law.

VA's law of my income figuring in to my now hub's child support is why I wouldn't marry him while we were there. I'm not going to have financial responsibility for someone else's children. Can you imagine if we broke up and what a nightmare it would be for me to get them to quit dinging my income?


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## havasu

Your money will stay your money provided it has never been blended, and the other half had never had access to it. I know a few friends who have $$ stashed away, and their wives don't know about it. Marriages are no longer what they use to be. It's a crazy world we now live in.


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## chickenqueen

With all the screwed laws regarding marriage and divorce, it's no wonder people quit getting married,like my daughter,who says she will not marry the man she lives with and the father of her children because of what I went through.I know how child support can really screw you,been there,done that.I'm still waiting for my $50/wk awarded in 1991.Since I worked and received no state support,they were not interested in enforcing the order.I finally gave up.You can't fight the government and make them do what they ordered.


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## chickenqueen

Hey Mark,how you doing in California and the fires?Are you safe?I've thought about you....


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## seminole wind

chickenqueen said:


> With all the screwed laws regarding marriage and divorce, it's no wonder people quit getting married,like my daughter,who says she will not marry the man she lives with and the father of her children because of what I went through.I know how child support can really screw you,been there,done that.I'm still waiting for my $50/wk awarded in 1991.Since I worked and received no state support,they were not interested in enforcing the order.I finally gave up.You can't fight the government and make them do what they ordered.


A co worker I knew divorced with 5 kids and divorcing a lawyer. He never sent her the child support payments. She did finally get to put a lien on his house for all the back support. That's one way of doing it!


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## seminole wind

I'm just very angry now. I'm playing nice til all is signed and sealed. He's been bending over backwards being nice to me. I want to Barf!

I've looked up the info of where the clerk's office is. In fact they moved it to a temporary area. I'll go tomorrow and find out some information. I also need to find out what their idea of a "legal description" of the property is, and where to find the books. I want to be prepared . Hubs can fill it out and get the notory and witnesses. I can hand deliver it over there. It will be a relief if I can get it done this week.

The lawyer said the paperwork is fine and will mail the divorce papers back for signatures, then I mail them back for him to file. Can't wait.


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## robin416

The property description will be part of your closing papers when you bought the property. Unless you've sold off any land or added land, added a permanent structure, what is in that document should suffice.

The signatures will probably need to be notarized. 

You realize that his excess spending is a sign of something going on right? Like depression, emotional issues.


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## seminole wind

I'll go tomorrow or Tuesday to the County Clerk's office to ask some questions. I was concerned about the term 'Legal description" of the property. Through building this house, buying the land, and everything, there are no highly descriptive lines and angles and degrees. But something called a Plat Book, and it appears that the legal description we have is like" section 10 of the Highlands, Lot ***, Plat pages ***"
That's what's on my deed as well. The clerk's office also give a list of things that have to be on the form, which is straightforward.

I'm sure he's been depressed on and off about his medical stuff. However this problem was there before I met him and continued over and over again. And I've told him for years that I'll divorce him over this. And we've had no mortgage, or payments for anything in 13 years- to me there's absolutely no reason to run up a debt and we both get the same amount of money. 

I'll be glad when all this paperwork is done.


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## havasu

CQ, I'm fine. one fire was 30 minutes from me, the wine fire is 7 hours north of me.


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## chickenqueen

Sem,I feel your pain.Been there,done that.Can't your lawyer do the quit claim deed?I had mine done by a lawyer because it was so confusing and government agencies bite.If you have to,go to a real estate lawyer.To me it was worth the price.No mistakes,no refiling,no hassles,etc.


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## seminole wind

I don't know. Seems like Florida has all these ways of filing yourself for a number of things. I do have a lawyer doing the divorce. We'll see how it goes. Right now hubs needs to get this paper notarized with 2 witnesses. And with the legal description of the property I have 2 deed warrantees that have the legal description to copy.


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## seminole wind

Mark, I can't believe the fire was so closed to you! I guess California fires and California mudslides happen every year. How long does the Fire season last?


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## havasu

It lasts until our first significant rain, which is Mid December usually. Remember, politics play a large part with these fires. Los Angeles county rents two huge super scoopers planes from Canada, at the tune of a few million $ a week. Locally, we have these available for us to use and can squash any fire in short time. The counties that have big fires, choose not to help with the rental costs of these planes, but they are the first to want to use them when their places go up in smoke.


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## seminole wind

Well that stinks. Sounds like a state problem to me , and should cost the same for any area.


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## seminole wind

Fingers crossed. The lawyer said the paperwork looks good so I should get them notarized. And Hub went out and got the quit claim deed notarized with 2 witnesses. So I'll be filing that .


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## seminole wind

So my daughter calls my mother (grandma) to say hello and my mom says " Karen told us she was going to move closer to you and we had to quickly call her and talk her out of it"

How funny is that? I think they should pay to have my sister in NY move down here to take care of them. She has 2 teens, and lives with her drug dealer ex husband's parents and has no ties to anything. I'd like to see her say no!


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## chickenqueen

Who's the oldest?I was left behind in Ohio to care for my grandmother and parents.I'm the oldest and the girl.When I was having problems with my mother,she was very paranoid and thought everybody was trying to poison her and wouldn't eat/drink.I was at the end of my rope and the new meds made her a zombie, which was actually worse,so I stopped it.When I complained to my brother in GA.,he yelled at me and hung up.He showed up 2 days later and took her to his house.Less than a week later she was in a nursing home and a month later,dead.He was her favorite,anyway.I haven't talked to him since,it's been over 10yrs but we were never close.Oh well,life goes on....


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## seminole wind

CQ, sorry you had to be there at one time too.

I'm the oldest, the middle one is an alcoholic, and the youngest is in NY. My parents fly her down once a year to visit. By the time I know she's there, half her visit is gone. It's like they want her all to themselves. 

I was kind of surprised that my daughter picked up on the way things are. Hubs picked up on it too, both years ago. 

Well when the time comes, I'll go live near my daughter. And my sister can move down and take care of them. I'll be a 2 hour direct flight, LOL


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## dawg53

Karen. What are you going to do with all your chickens and dog, horse too, when the time comes for you to leave?


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## seminole wind

What to do? Take them with me. I'm not leaving anyone. Moving is not a big deal. 

I think I need about a year. The horse can be shipped to another stable. The chickens require some creative thinking.


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## seminole wind

I imagine I'm disappointing some people . I'm sure Hubs thought "well good ole Karen will just yell and have a fit" about his credit cards, and the parents to whom I've been the sacrificial lamb to now wants to run away. Now my mother calls and asks me if I have made up my mind yet about moving-(Oh, we love you so much!). It's almost like people don't see me having much value until I move to protect my finances or move away. Now they're all pulling at me. It's like "we love you" is a bargaining chip to keep control over me. 

My decision right now is based on whether I want to give up my home and life as it is right now. I'll give it a year to decide.


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## chickenqueen

Moving the animals is the easy part.You got to do what's best for Karen.You put everybody else first,now it's your time to enjoy life.


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## seminole wind

I got 3 sets of papers signed and notarized and ready to be sent back. What a relief! I'm glad the lady at the post office does it. She's a mile away, and the post office is one of those tiny unnoticed places-no lines.


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## Maryellen

Do what you want to do. Do not let anyone guilt you into staying or leaving..
.
You deserve to be happy and to make your own decision on YOUR life
..


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## seminole wind

I will. It's not like I made them ever believe that I was going to be there for them permanently. 

OMG! I just had to figure out how to convert JPG to PDF and scan in about 30 pages, send them to a website "converter" and put them in a file and send them to the lawyer. That should be the majority of the paperwork. Worst part is hunting for where the files got sent to on my laptop. Could be anywhere. I hate Windows. It's unfortunate that the only other system is Apple, and I really don't feel like relearning a system all over again.


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## havasu

We are supporting your decision 100% girl. Do what is best for YOU!


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## seminole wind

Thanks, Mark!


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## seminole wind

Okay. Miracle of miracles. I got my divorce. So me and the port are celebrating (alone) since it's for financial protection and nothing more. But I do feel free of having to do anything. I think I'm just tired of everyone.

So I was going to have Christmas eve here (very sore subject) but my sister is going to vegas, my nieces family invited my parents over and no one gives a thought to what I'll be doing. 

Maybe it's me. I believe the holidays are for family gathering and whoever else they bring along or anyone that needs a place to feel wanted. Maybe I'm naive . I don't close my doors to anyone. So I guess I am really upset when other family members don't think that way. I don't care if I haven't seen them all year or had words, holidays are meant to be shared by family and friends regardless of anything. I guess I was born into the wrong family. Even my husband's son makes me feel more wanted. And he only met me a year ago! 

My daughter's in laws are the same way as me. All of family even divorced spouse's are invited. I guess I need to move near my daughter. She's like me. I hope I have a chance of becoming part of someone's family. I am alone by choice like CQ prefers. All my life I thought of family ties being more solid than anything and to find out that it's not true is hard to digest. Yes I'm crying in my wine but it's 1:24 am and I am still awake . Thanks for listening. I seem to get more honest feelings from my chicken friends. It's hard to deal with things that I never expected.


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## seminole wind

Okay, I'm going to spend Christmas with daughter Nicole and grandkids. Yea! I will miss my chickens but hey, it's only 5 days.

The hubby never really "got" the holidays. There's never been anything exciting there. He does his same Ole thing- the laptop for the whole day. So I hope one of his sons visits.


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## dawg53

Glad you're going to see your daughter and grands Karen.


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## boskelli1571

seminolewind said:


> I imagine I'm disappointing some people . I'm sure Hubs thought "well good ole Karen will just yell and have a fit" about his credit cards, and the parents to whom I've been the sacrificial lamb to now wants to run away. Now my mother calls and asks me if I have made up my mind yet about moving-(Oh, we love you so much!). It's almost like people don't see me having much value until I move to protect my finances or move away. Now they're all pulling at me. It's like "we love you" is a bargaining chip to keep control over me.
> 
> My decision right now is based on whether I want to give up my home and life as it is right now. I'll give it a year to decide.


Don't let others unload a 'guilt trip' on you. If they really cared that much they would have supported you before now.
Sadly, we all learn that life is full of liars, cheats and scumbags - some of whom we marry and live with.
Sounds like it's time to cut your losses (& future losses). Do what you feel is best for you and your daughter,


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## Wilbur's Mom

Wow Karen, I do feel for you. I used to believe the same, that holidays are for family gathering, enjoying each other. But over the years I've learned that if they wanted to be involved with us, then they would anytime of the year. You have to take care of you, and not worry about everyone else. I know that sound selfish, but self preservation is important if you are going to get to your daughter . That will be a family that will open their arms and be thankful for you.

Hubby would rather just stay in and not have to talk to anyone. Christmas is not a happy time for him, he does try for the girls, but its a lot of effort. This year will be especially tough as he is quitting drinking..been 1 week and 1/2 and every day is worse. 

Find your Joy, sometimes it takes baby steps, but you are well on your way!


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## chickenqueen

Sem,I thought you were thinking of moving close to your daughter.Are you doing Christmas in Ind.?WM,if hubby doesn't drink that day,it should be a good day,even if he's being an ass.If you can, just ignore him and his behavior,he's going through a lot.A month or two down the road,it won't matter anymore as long as he's not drinking.Tell hubby I'm rooting for him.


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## Wilbur's Mom

chickenqueen said:


> Sem,I thought you were thinking of moving close to your daughter.Are you doing Christmas in Ind.?WM,if hubby doesn't drink that day,it should be a good day,even if he's being an ass.If you can, just ignore him and his behavior,he's going through a lot.A month or two down the road,it won't matter anymore as long as he's not drinking.Tell hubby I'm rooting for him.


Thanks CQ, its been an uphill battle and very hard for both of us. You are right, every day he doesn't drink is a good day. So very hard to watch him struggle so much, but I believe and have much faith that he will get past this difficult phase and he too will find some joy. Just tough...


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## dawg53

Wilbur's Mom said:


> Hubby would rather just stay in and not have to talk to anyone. Christmas is not a happy time for him, he does try for the girls, but its a lot of effort. This year will be especially tough as he is quitting drinking..been 1 week and 1/2 and every day is worse.
> 
> Find your Joy, sometimes it takes baby steps, but you are well on your way!





chickenqueen said:


> A month or two down the road,it won't matter anymore as long as he's not drinking.Tell hubby I'm rooting for him.


WM: I'm pulling for your hubby too. I'll say a prayer for him.


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## seminole wind

Wilburs mom, I think out of all drugs and cigarettes drinking is the hardest to give up. My dead ex husband chose dying over not drinking. My sister and BIL have struggled with it for years. I hope things go well for hubby.


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## seminole wind

CQ, on moving, I still feel I will, just not right now. Xmas will be in Texas. I think they move in January.


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## Maryellen

Karen my door is always open for you for any time or the holidays. I know with my chickens recent diagnosis no one would come here, but the offer stands. My.house varies between crazy and quiet lol.


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## seminole wind

Aww, thanks Maryellen.
I'm used to the isolation bit. If I go see a chicken person, I shower and wear clean clothes and other shoes. When I come home, it all goes in the laundry and I shower. I've had marèks for a while and never want to walk it off the property.


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## Maryellen

The offer is always open to come stay for a visit


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## Wilbur's Mom

If y'all didn't already know this, you are a great group of people. Karen, I wish you the best calmest holiday season. I know you deserve it. Thank for all the support, prayers are what he needs right now. Thank goodness we both quit smoking 15yrs ago! But beer has long since been his best friend, since before he was a teen. I am thankful that he wants to quit and is trying his best. I'm doing all I can to support him and trying to explain to the kiddos what is happening without too much detail.but they are super smart and I've chosen to be as honest with them as I can. Shelby


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## seminole wind

Over the years with my daughter married into the military, I remember all the holidays that she invited a young GI or two for the meal for the holiday because they couldn't fly home. And when we went camping in the summer, her hubby invited two Sargeant over for fajitas on the grill while at the campgrounds. When my daughter was growing up, any friend of hers or more were welcome on ice cream runs or the mall. Isn't that what life is about? 

Well I went for pancakes with parents tonight and one thing led to another and I told him 2/3 years ago , hypothetically, we discussed if my niece didn't invite me for Xmas eve, then they would still go and I should understand . Something about not wanting to make waves with the family. Then he says I should have the holiday at my house more and I said I did one time and he said that didn't count because my daughter did most of the work. (Like an excuse for what you would do?)
Well he now claims he never said anything of those things. I said well I have it all written down because I shared the story with my chicken friends on line. He said he would never go to a family holiday dinner if I wasn't invited. He had even asked his neighbor and the neighbor agreed that they should go without me. (This all was a discussion about a hypothetical situation-a long story). 

So since then, I only go if my sister has a dinner but no one else. 
I just can't believe he said he never said those things. (Then again they've been really sweet to me so I don't move up to where my daughter is because they need me to be here to take care of them). 

Too late!


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## Wilbur's Mom

Man are they laying it on thick! So nice of the neighbor to chime in..They remember what they want to only if its convenient for them. My mom was the worst at that! Of course they are being sweet, then that way if you change your mind and stay then they'll say well it was your decision, we wanted you to go but you didn't...Sound about right? Wow....

You'll love this, my youngest birthday party is this weekend, during a text to my folks, I mentioned what our plans were and then no response since then. I get a package in the mail with a birthday card addressed to the wrong kid. I tore that card up and threw it away so youngest didn't see it. 

OH the weather outside is frightful, but fire is so delightful.....


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## seminole wind

Glad you didn't share the card! All my adult life I have bent over backwards trying to please him and feel worthy to him. There's been a lot of small things over the years that I've noticed but talked myself out of. I've always felt his love was conditional. I put an end to me even trying 2 years ago. No hold over me anymore. The only (two) in this family that I feel unconditional or "family" love from is my daughter and my one sister. 

Except until a few months ago, I spoke of moving where my daughter is and they started to bend over backwards trying to make me happy so I stay and they have someone to rely on.
Now he denies saying what amounts to accepting the fact that I'd be the one left out if they were invited to my niece and I was not for the traditional xmas eve gathering. (Hypothetically or a possibility of happening). He denies it all. Even his discussion with his neighbor that agreed with him. I thought his denial that he said that was maybe my imagination. But hubby was there and heard every word! I'm not hallucinating. 

Sorry I have gone on and on about this but all of you are the only ones I have to talk to about this. I realize that everyone has it's family problems, which is a sortof comfort to me.


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## Wilbur's Mom

No need to apologize, just knowing that there is someone on the other end that truly does care helps tremendously. It amazes me how people have changed..could you imagine if you hadn't said a word about moving how they would be right now? They can find someone else to rely on. That is their pattern... 

I am tempted to send the gift back to amazon, but in my anger I tore up both slips, the card and the packaging receipt. Oh well...


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## seminole wind

Darn!


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## chickenqueen

The only family I have left are my son and daughter and their kids.Dale's family are all still alive but we don't see them much.If something happens to his parents,I get the feeling we'll be taking care of them,as they point out we have extra bedrooms and I was a nurse and don't work anymore.But could they live under the same roof?I hope I never have to find out.


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## seminole wind

I would not want to inherit new housemates.


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## seminole wind

So, I had to cancel my tickets to daughter's family because she's working 5/7 days. So parents found out I'm home xmas eve and invited themselves over. I am so uncomfortable about the whole thing but I have to put on the happy face.

The uncomfortable is that all my life I have been the one that's taken for granted. It did come to a head 2 years ago. 
Now that parents know I'm thinking about moving near my daughter and family, they are pouring on the "family" thing like you wouldn't believe. Every phone call is about "we're family and that's most important", and "how much they love me." It would take an idiot to not see the change from being taken for granted to their most beloved child. It just makes me sick because I feel like it's all an act.

It's a tough choice between loving my home here vs. moving to Indiana.


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## velociraptor uk

seminolewind said:


> So, I had to cancel my tickets to daughter's family because she's working 5/7 days. So parents found out I'm home xmas eve and invited themselves over. I am so uncomfortable about the whole thing but I have to put on the happy face.
> 
> The uncomfortable is that all my life I have been the one that's taken for granted. It did come to a head 2 years ago.
> Now that parents know I'm thinking about moving near my daughter and family, they are pouring on the "family" thing like you wouldn't believe. Every phone call is about "we're family and that's most important", and "how much they love me." It would take an idiot to not see the change from being taken for granted to their most beloved child. It just makes me sick because I feel like it's all an act.
> 
> It's a tough choice between loving my home here vs. moving to Indiana.


This I know all too well, fact is I got a message request from my "mother" (undeserving of title) via FB all because she wants to worm her way in due to the birth of my daughter last night. She sent a message saying she'd bought things for the baby, this is the first contact for...must be 5-6 years. All for an act to look like a doting gran/mother...problem being I'm VERY direct, I'll sink that ship before it ever leaves harbour.

My point is some people only act in a kind or generous fashion when it serves their needs...mental abuse only works if you allow yourself to be manipulated. Focusing on their past exploits is always a good reminder of past schemes and hurt....which is a good teacher of what to look out for in the present.

Your trump card appears to be your daughter, I'd play them at their own game stating you're moving to be close to your daughter...after all a parent should always put their child first.


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## Wilbur's Mom

Nicely said VEL. My youngest daughters bday came and went without a call. AND she texted them her new # and nothing. Sorry you had to cancel your trip. I know you were really looking forward to it. And now you have to fake happy the whole time they are there. Sounds like.a great time for a bunch of wine! May be the only way u make it through without exploding.


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## seminole wind

Shelby, I have my wines picked out!!! I am not into faking happy. 

VEL, sometimes people have to earn their title before they take advantage of it. Congrats on the new baby!!! What did you name her?

5-6 years is way too long for someone to think that they can just waltz back in to your life. I wouldn't be making it easy.

My daughter and her family are my number one. And a parent should be putting a child's happiness first. I guess I don't understand their position and it makes me uncomfortable because it's not a thought I would have. I don't like being manipulated and I don't manipulate anyone.


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## Wilbur's Mom

Good for you! Wine makes it all better sometimes! You can't understand people that are soo selfish that they will manipulate anyone to accomplish what they want. VEL, make her work for it, only then will you find out if her intentions are true.


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## dawg53

Karen shares her wine with her chickens. Got a pic Karen?


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## seminole wind




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## Wilbur's Mom

That is awesome!!!


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## seminole wind

Only my Mariska. And provided she doesn't leave any specks of dirt behind. She's 10 now and can have whatever she wants.


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## boskelli1571

seminolewind said:


> Only my Mariska. And provided she doesn't leave any specks of dirt behind. She's 10 now and can have whatever she wants.


As a nurse one of my specialties was Forensics and domestic/sexual abuse - cheery subject, I know. In case you didn't know your husband has been 'gaslighting' you for years - where did he learn it? Sounds like his parents were great manipulators too.
It takes a strong person to be able to disentangle themselves from this sort of pathological family...stay safe and remember to do what is best for you.
Shelby - good for you supporting your husband - not an easy path.
I was living with a gambler for several years - could spend the money faster than I made it. I finally got my head out of my a** and left..no regrets. I started over again and couldn't be happier.
Hang in there ladies - we have each other  no offense to the boys


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## Wilbur's Mom

Thanks Sue! Karen, how did yesterday go?


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## seminole wind

It went well. Dad didn't bring up anything uncomfortable and mom was her usual not hearing.
The only thing they said over and over is about family sticking together and they chose spending xmas eve with me and not going to my niece's. Big lie. It would not be any different if I didn't think about moving-especially if my nephew would have been there. He is their #1 and they would step on anyone not to disappoint him. But he's in Japan.


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## Wilbur's Mom

Jeesh! Well at least the weekend is over...


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## seminole wind

boskelli1571 said:


> As a nurse one of my specialties was Forensics and domestic/sexual abuse - cheery subject, I know. In case you didn't know your husband has been 'gaslighting' you for years - where did he learn it? Sounds like his parents were great manipulators too.
> It takes a strong person to be able to disentangle themselves from this sort of pathological family...stay safe and remember to do what is best for you.
> Shelby - good for you supporting your husband - not an easy path.
> I was living with a gambler for several years - could spend the money faster than I made it. I finally got my head out of my a** and left..no regrets. I started over again and couldn't be happier.
> Hang in there ladies - we have each other  no offense to the boys


I would have very happy in Nursing Forensics and even sexual abuse.


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## seminole wind

Wilbur's Mom said:


> Jeesh! Well at least the weekend is over...


Bless the weekend being over. As a kid I cherished every moment. Now, at 58, the money spent is not so hated as much as all the choices I have to make! And buying for people who have everything under the sun. My mother is big on knick knacks. I don't want them! This year it's a 9" ceramic cowboy boot!


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## chickenqueen

Knick-knacks,how I hate them.I collected chickens until I got actual chickens.Now,the knick-knacks are finding new homes.The lights and clocks are all gone.I've got cookie jars and others that I may put in a box with "FREE" written on it at the curb.I've got coops to clean and feeding,watering,etc and have no time to dust fake chickens.


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## Wilbur's Mom

This is the 1st of my chicken knick knacks...I could see how it can get out of control!


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## chickenqueen

Yes,it can.Want a chicken cookie jar to go with it?Or creamer,S&P shakers,baskets or statues?Or a fountain?Anybody?


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## Wilbur's Mom

Ha!! Send me some pics!


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## chickenqueen

What are you interested in?Anything particular or all of it?The fountain is really nice and I've got two big chicken cookie jars,lots of S&P shakers.I'll have to get the step ladder out and get the real good stuff down from atop of the kitchen cabinets.I wonder why I haven't tried to pawn any of it off on here before.When people come visit they tell me two things-"I don't want any chickens or aloe vera plants".Which reminds me,I've got aloe plants to pawn off,too.Interested?I'm trying to do a Swedish death cleaning..........


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## seminole wind

I love Ebay to sell stuff.


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## Wilbur's Mom

chickenqueen said:


> What are you interested in?Anything particular or all of it?The fountain is really nice and I've got two big chicken cookie jars,lots of S&P shakers.I'll have to get the step ladder out and get the real good stuff down from atop of the kitchen cabinets.I wonder why I haven't tried to pawn any of it off on here before.When people come visit they tell me two things-"I don't want any chickens or aloe vera plants".Which reminds me,I've got aloe plants to pawn off,too.Interested?I'm trying to do a Swedish death cleaning..........


I would like to see the cookie jars and tell me about the aloe vera plants. I have 12 inside plants! always on the hunt for something different. plants are like chickens, can never have too many!!


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## Wilbur's Mom

And what is a Swedish death cleaning??


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## chickenqueen

In Sweden people go through their collections and give it away,throw it away or donate it before they die.That way family/friends get what was intended for them and survivors don't have to go through everything after they die.I'm not dying(not yet,anyway)but I thought it was a good excuse to do what I've been thinking about-get rid of dust collectors,clothes I can't wear anymore,stuff I don't use anymore,give the kids what they want,except for the record collection.One day over the weekend I'll get the cookie jars down and the fountain and take pics.The aloes are babies from a big aloe.I keep getting them out 3-4 times a year,they take nutrition from the mother plant,and more come back.Aloe is excellent for burns and other skin conditions,it has nutritional value but I've never consumed it.And it's a succulent and thrives on neglect.I'll take pictures of them,too.


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## boskelli1571

chickenqueen said:


> In Sweden people go through their collections and give it away,throw it away or donate it before they die.That way family/friends get what was intended for them and survivors don't have to go through everything after they die.I'm not dying(not yet,anyway)but I thought it was a good excuse to do what I've been thinking about-get rid of dust collectors,clothes I can't wear anymore,stuff I don't use anymore,give the kids what they want,except for the record collection.One day over the weekend I'll get the cookie jars down and the fountain and take pics.The aloes are babies from a big aloe.I keep getting them out 3-4 times a year,they take nutrition from the mother plant,and more come back.Aloe is excellent for burns and other skin conditions,it has nutritional value but I've never consumed it.And it's a succulent and thrives on neglect.I'll take pictures of them,too.


You can buy the juice in gallon jugs at many super markets. A good friend of mine has IBS/gluten/lactose intolerance and she takes 2 'cocktails' a day of aloe/cider to keep her gut healthy. Must be working b/c she can cheat with things like chocolate without the terrible cramping and diarrhea she used to have


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## seminole wind

I feel like doing the Swedish death cleaning. And I'll be tossing my cd collection. Echo plays any song any time any artist. No more buying a whole cd for one or two songs.


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## boskelli1571

seminolewind said:


> I feel like doing the Swedish death cleaning. And I'll be tossing my cd collection. Echo plays any song any time any artist. No more buying a whole cd for one or two songs.


What CDs'??


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## Wilbur's Mom

chickenqueen said:


> In Sweden people go through their collections and give it away,throw it away or donate it before they die.That way family/friends get what was intended for them and survivors don't have to go through everything after they die.I'm not dying(not yet,anyway)but I thought it was a good excuse to do what I've been thinking about-get rid of dust collectors,clothes I can't wear anymore,stuff I don't use anymore,give the kids what they want,except for the record collection.One day over the weekend I'll get the cookie jars down and the fountain and take pics.The aloes are babies from a big aloe.I keep getting them out 3-4 times a year,they take nutrition from the mother plant,and more come back.Aloe is excellent for burns and other skin conditions,it has nutritional value but I've never consumed it.And it's a succulent and thrives on neglect.I'll take pictures of them,too.


Thanks! I like the idea. I should do that, I have so much stuff and if we sell the house, be a good time to purge!! Bos, glad to hear your friend found a "cocktail" to help her. Hubby and I have been researching some natural cleanses to detox, his for his liver, me just overall health. Would love to try to eat clean, but wow...seems overwhelming!


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## chickenqueen

Yeah,what CD's?I like rock-n-roll.Hint,hint....


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## seminole wind

I have a bunch of cd's-classic rock, and new wave from the 80's. I wonder if I could take a pic......... they just sit there unused.


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## seminole wind




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## seminole wind




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## seminole wind

more


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## chickenqueen

I got dibs on Inxs and the Cure.Probably others.What you want for them?I quit collecting chickens but you can never have too many records,tapes or cd's.Also REM,Led epplin(my bird,George, ate my keyboard and the last letter of the alphabet no longer works and it's in my last name-grrrr).Wanna trade for chicken knick-knacks or a bird named George......


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## chickenqueen

PS-Dale's gonna get the cookie jars and fountain down so I'll be posting the pics soon.


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## dawg53

You have a good selection of CD's Karen. Some I know, some I dont. Would you have gotten your user name via John Anderson's "Seminole Wind?"


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## seminole wind

Dawg, yes I did. Right when I moved down here.

CQ, let's see your knick knacks. No to the chicken named George!


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