# Bantam X Regular sized chicken



## adobo

Hi! Newbie here. I'm from the Philippines and I'm also into Bantam raising. I managed to find this forum when I googled for a bantam forum site.

Please pardon this query if it has been asked before:
I paired an OEG cock to a regular sized crested hen. They mated and now I have some eggs. 

My question are given that the eggs were fertilized and will hatch:
1. Will i be able to get a bantam sized crested offsping?
2. What will be the expected size of most the offsprings?
3. Will the F1s be fertile or sterile?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Bird_slave

Welcome 
My feeling is that you will get a mix - some mid-sized birds neither bantam or standard, some large and perhaps a few tiny ones.


----------



## rob

welcome to the forum.


----------



## Marthab53

Bird_slave said:


> Welcome
> My feeling is that you will get a mix - some mid-sized birds neither bantam or standard, some large and perhaps a few tiny ones.


I agree with Bird_slave.

If you cross back to the bantam then that offspring will be smaller etc.

As to will they be fertile or sterile are you asking can they be fertile, and yes they can. No reason why they would be Sterile!

Welcome to the Forum!


----------



## Energyvet

Welcome to chicken land! Hope you enjoy your visit!


----------



## adobo

Bird_slave said:


> Welcome
> My feeling is that you will get a mix - some mid-sized birds neither bantam or standard, some large and perhaps a few tiny ones.





Marthab53 said:


> I agree with Bird_slave.
> 
> If you cross back to the bantam then that offspring will be smaller etc.
> 
> As to will they be fertile or sterile are you asking can they be fertile, and yes they can. No reason why they would be Sterile!
> 
> Welcome to the Forum!





rob said:


> welcome to the forum.





Energyvet said:


> Welcome to chicken land! Hope you enjoy your visit!


Thank you for the warm welcome.

I am expecting the eggs to hatch anytime within this week. I got 6 eggs being incubated by my regular hen but i slipped a couple of bantam eggs to see if the eggs are still good.

So its just like "elimination of the gene" game. When I get a mid-sized hen, I'll just pair it up with another bantam until i get a smaller sized.

Regarding the sterile issue, I remembered that when a donkey X horse = mule then the mule is usually sterile. Glad that rule doesn't imply to chickens.


----------



## Marthab53

adobo said:


> Thank you for the warm welcome.
> 
> I am expecting the eggs to hatch anytime within this week. I got 6 eggs being incubated by my regular hen but i slipped a couple of bantam eggs to see if the eggs are still good.
> 
> So its just like "elimination of the gene" game. When I get a mid-sized hen, I'll just pair it up with another bantam until i get a smaller sized.
> 
> Regarding the sterile issue, I remembered that when a donkey X horse = mule then the mule is usually sterile. Glad that rule doesn't imply to chickens.


I kind of figured that is what you were thinking about! Not so in the chicken world. But if you crossed a Guinea hen with a chicken they are supposed to be sterle


----------



## adobo

Marthab53 said:


> I kind of figured that is what you were thinking about! Not so in the chicken world. But if you crossed a Guinea hen with a chicken they are supposed to be sterle


great! thanks again for the info.


----------



## BuckeyeChickens

adobo said:


> Hi! Newbie here. I'm from the Philippines and I'm also into Bantam raising. I managed to find this forum when I googled for a bantam forum site.
> 
> Please pardon this query if it has been asked before:
> I paired an OEG cock to a regular sized crested hen. They mated and now I have some eggs.
> 
> My question are given that the eggs were fertilized and will hatch:
> *1. Will i be able to get a bantam sized crested offsping?*
> *2. What will be the expected size of most the offsprings?*
> *3. Will the F1s be fertile or sterile?*
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Welcome adobo! There are a number of genetics at work when crossing bantams (b) to large fowl (LF) a few to consider are the genes that are connected with dwarfism. Some of these can also be "sex-linked" in nature as well....depending on the cross this means males may be larger or smaller than females in the offspring. Generally, large and bantam crosses produce F1 offspring that are intermediate in size (sometimes appearing to be more bantam in size than LF in size). However, F2 offspring will have the greatest variation is size overall.

When one gets into the sex-linked dwarfism genetics a bantam male bred over a LF hen would give you intermediate sized males and relatively smaller females. Finally, there have been some "lethal" genetics associated with dwarfism genetic crosses too and these can occur in the F2, F3 and further offspring where bantam sized chicks are growing inside LF sized eggs and this becomes fatal. It is not a sterility issue but more to do with the bantam size chicks not being able to absorb the yolk sac of the LF sized eggs.


----------



## adobo

BuckeyeChickens said:


> Welcome adobo! There are a number of genetics at work when crossing bantams (b) to large fowl (LF) a few to consider are the genes that are connected with dwarfism. Some of these can also be "sex-linked" in nature as well....depending on the cross this means males may be larger or smaller than females in the offspring. Generally, large and bantam crosses produce F1 offspring that are intermediate in size (sometimes appearing to be more bantam in size than LF in size). However, F2 offspring will have the greatest variation is size overall.
> 
> When one gets into the sex-linked dwarfism genetics a bantam male bred over a LF hen would give you intermediate sized males and relatively smaller females. Finally, there have been some "lethal" genetics associated with dwarfism genetic crosses too and these can occur in the F2, F3 and further offspring where bantam sized chicks are growing inside LF sized eggs and this becomes fatal. It is not a sterility issue but more to do with the bantam size chicks not being able to absorb the yolk sac of the LF sized eggs.


Thank You sir for your reply. Your info is very informative.

Should I pair the father to his female F1 daughter(assuming that she is intermediate in size) or let the two F1 siblings mate to produce the smaller F2? Will any of this pairing will eliminate or reduce the "lethal" genetics since i am assuming that the egg of the F1 hen will be smaller the LF egg.

If I get a male intermediate sized F1, should i pair it with a bantam hen to achieve the same objective as above?

For example the F1 that I got is not frizzy as i want it to be but inherits the regular feathers of his dad, Is there still a chance that the F1 will produce frizzy F2s?

BTW, my avatar is the frizzle LF hen. the roos is the alpha male that I posted on the other thread.


----------



## BuckeyeChickens

adobo said:


> *Should I pair the father to his female F1 daughter(assuming that she is intermediate in size) or let the two F1 siblings mate to produce the smaller F2?* Will any of this pairing will eliminate or reduce the "lethal" genetics since i am assuming that the egg of the F1 hen will be smaller the LF egg.
> 
> If I get a male intermediate sized F1, should i pair it with a bantam hen to achieve the same objective as above?
> 
> For example the F1 that I got is not frizzy as i want it to be but inherits the regular feathers of his dad, Is there still a chance that the F1 will produce frizzy F2s?
> 
> BTW, my avatar is the frizzle LF hen. the roos is the alpha male that I posted on the other thread.


Yes, I would breed the father to ALL the F1 daughters that are smaller in size! If you are looking for certain traits (frizzy you mentioned) and F1 offspring that are small and have the trait I would consider breeding together (brother/sister) to see if you can duplicate it in the F2 mating. My understanding is the "lethal" issue, bantam chick inside a LF sized egg can be problematic for several generation just something to be aware of but will eventually breed out I'm guessing.....wish I had more practical information that would help you, most of this comes from learning "poultry genetics" as a hobby and I don't breed bantams myself any longer! Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## adobo

Thank You again for sharing your knowledge, Jeff.  I'll keep you guys posted on my breeding project.


----------



## adobo

eggs hatched this weekend. here's a couple of pic of the chicks. 

regular bantam chick on the left and my cross on the right. (I let my regular hen brood a couple of bantam eggs to see if she will adopt them and for size comparison.)









the biggest chick of the batch









my crossed brood with their step siblings









so far i cannot distinguish if i got some frizzy chicks...


----------



## robopetz

Too cute with all the colors and spots.


----------



## piglett

good looking batch of chicks you have there
will you let the hen raise them?
i'm on another forum also 
we have a member who has a place in the province
the trouble he had was if one of his birds went next door it never returned
i guess the people living next door were eating lots of chicken 
he solved this be adding a fence about 2 meters high 
he has also imported some large breed eggs that he hatched out there
i will be sending him some english orpington eggs so he can take them with him on his next trip
so things are looking up in the Philippines
soon maybe the chickens will have a lot more meat on them than they do now.



good luck
piglett


----------



## adobo

piglett said:


> good looking batch of chicks you have there
> will you let the hen raise them?
> i'm on another forum also
> we have a member who has a place in the province
> the trouble he had was if one of his birds went next door it never returned
> i guess the people living next door were eating lots of chicken
> he solved this be adding a fence about 2 meters high
> he has also imported some large breed eggs that he hatched out there
> i will be sending him some english orpington eggs so he can take them with him on his next trip
> so things are looking up in the Philippines
> soon maybe the chickens will have a lot more meat on them than they do now.
> 
> good luck
> piglett


hi i will let the mom take care of the chicks til 3-4weeks old.

may i ask how can you send him eggs from the US to here? does he need to secure any paper works?


----------



## piglett

adobo said:


> hi i will let the mom take care of the chicks til 3-4weeks old.
> 
> may i ask how can you send him eggs from the US to here? does he need to secure any paper works?


he lives in california most of the year
he did a really good job on packing them in his golf bag when he was heading to the Philippines from California. 
the golf bag is too big for the xray machine so they were looked over by a real person not a machine.
even after the eggs went to the other side of the planet 
50% of them still hatched, i feel that is a good number.

i will next day my eggs to him & then a couple days later he will take another trip to the "PI" in May
his place is in the province west of Cebu
the deal i made with him is that i want to stop by 
in a couple of years & get some of my chicks from his place there
i wasn't looking for any money
but i fugured my farther inlaw would love to have some really large breed chickens at his place in Sibuyan

where are you at in the Philippines?


----------



## BuckeyeChickens

adobo said:


> eggs hatched this weekend. here's a couple of pic of the chicks. ......*so far i cannot distinguish if i got some frizzy chicks*...


Unfortunately Adobo, you will need to let these chicks grow to almost maturity before you will know which to keep from this breeding project!


----------



## adobo

piglett said:


> he lives in california most of the year
> he did a really good job on packing them in his golf bag when he was heading to the Philippines from California.
> the golf bag is too big for the xray machine so they were looked over by a real person not a machine.
> even after the eggs went to the other side of the planet
> 50% of them still hatched, i feel that is a good number.
> 
> i will next day my eggs to him & then a couple days later he will take another trip to the "PI" in May
> his place is in the province west of Cebu
> the deal i made with him is that i want to stop by
> in a couple of years & get some of my chicks from his place there
> i wasn't looking for any money
> but i fugured my farther inlaw would love to have some really large breed chickens at his place in Sibuyan
> 
> where are you at in the Philippines?


I see what he did there. 

50% is still a great survival rate.

I found out that some of the exotic chicken breeders here are based in the Visayas area. He might be the one of those hobbyist/collector/breeder that i found over the internet.

I'm from the suburbs south of Manila.


----------



## adobo

BuckeyeChickens said:


> Unfortunately Adobo, you will need to let these chicks grow to almost maturity before you will know which to keep from this breeding project!


full maturity is around 6 months, right?

my next project will be OEG X silver sebright bantams.


----------



## BuckeyeChickens

adobo said:


> full *maturity is around 6 months, right?*
> my next project will be OEG X silver sebright bantams.


By six months you should be able to tell which ones are "intermediate" sized and by a couple of months wether they are frizzled or not!!! Good luck and have fun with your projects.


----------



## piglett

adobo said:


> I see what he did there.
> 
> 50% is still a great survival rate.
> 
> I found out that some of the exotic chicken breeders here are based in the Visayas area. He might be the one of those hobbyist/collector/breeder that i found over the internet.
> 
> I'm from the suburbs south of Manila.


i have been through there on the way to batangas to catch a boat.
i was really impressed with the hand carved doors that they had for sale on the side of the road.


----------



## BuckeyeChickens

I'm a little slow adobo and piglett....just noticed you both talking about the Philippines?!?!? I travel over to that part of the world several times each year, too....I work for a company based in Singapore and we have facilities in Thailand, Malaysia and Jakarta!!!  It's a small world, who knows we might run into one another some day and talk chickens in person?!?!?


----------



## adobo

BuckeyeChickens said:


> By six months you should be able to tell which ones are "intermediate" sized and by a couple of months wether they are frizzled or not!!! Good luck and have fun with your projects.


that's a long time to wait though  one thing that i learned from this project is that never let a large hen nurse a bantam chick. When i got back home yesterday, i found the poor baby lifeless, probably been crushed by the hen. 



piglett said:


> i have been through there on the way to batangas to catch a boat.
> i was really impressed with the hand carved doors that they had for sale on the side of the road.


there are a lot of skilled carvers in that area. its kind of a status symbol here if you own one of those carved doors.



BuckeyeChickens said:


> I'm a little slow adobo and piglett....just noticed you both talking about the Philippines?!?!? I travel over to that part of the world several times each year, too....I work for a company based in Singapore and we have facilities in Thailand, Malaysia and Jakarta!!!  It's a small world, who knows we might run into one another some day and talk chickens in person?!?!?


I've been looking for a job in SG but until now i still don't have any luck. 

Glad to know you are familiar with our area here and also hope we could meet someday.


----------



## BuckeyeChickens

adobo said:


> *I've been looking for a job in SG but until now i still don't have any luck.*


What kind of work are you looking for or what skills do you have??? Send me your resume (PM me and I'll give you my email address) and I'll forward it to our headquarters in SG....never know they might need someone with your skill set???


----------



## piglett

BuckeyeChickens said:


> I'm a little slow adobo and piglett....just noticed you both talking about the Philippines?!?!? I travel over to that part of the world several times each year, too....I work for a company based in Singapore and we have facilities in Thailand, Malaysia and Jakarta!!!  It's a small world, who knows we might run into one another some day and talk chickens in person?!?!?


Adobo lives there & my wife is from there Buckeye
i was talking to a guy on another forum who lives in California but has a place near Cebu. he has started bringing hatching eggs with him when he flys there. i guess a hard sided golf bag will hold a bunch.
anyhow i told him i would be glad to give him some of my buff orpington & huge imported english orpington eggs. 
i just want a few babies a few years from now to give to my farther inlaw.
he will go nuts when he sees how big they get.
mostly all they have is tiny birds there, not much meat on em at all.
we aim to start fixing that!

piglett


----------



## adobo

just an update: two chicks show signs of frizzy feathers

here is one of the chicks


----------



## robopetz

So soo sooo cute! Keep us posted on this cutie. Thank you!


----------



## mstricer

Bird_slave said:


> Welcome
> My feeling is that you will get a mix - some mid-sized birds neither bantam or standard, some large and perhaps a few tiny ones.


Not true, I had a Marans cockerel sneak in my d'Uccle pen and bred all my girls, I hatched out the eggs, thinking I had Mottled babies, instead they were all hatched looking like a d'Uccle with BCM colors, very cute.


----------



## piglett

*good looking baby you have there Adobo*
*can we get a picture of the parents?*

*thanks *
*piglett*


----------



## BuckeyeChickens

mstricer said:


> Not true, I had a Marans cockerel sneak in my d'Uccle pen and bred all my girls, I hatched out the eggs, thinking I had Mottled babies, instead they were all hatched looking like a d'Uccle with BCM colors, very cute.


You are saying a LF Maran male bred to bantam hens produced ALL bantam offspring (not intermediate sized)??? Forget the colors, this thread is about SIZE.....thanks in advance for your input.


----------



## adobo

piglett said:


> *good looking baby you have there Adobo*
> *can we get a picture of the parents?*
> 
> *thanks *
> *piglett*


here you go:


----------



## adobo

the cutey on the right most is showing signs also of curly feathers


----------



## piglett

i like the looks of momma!
very nice


----------



## BuckeyeChickens

How do those chicks look at this point, adobo???


----------



## piglett

BuckeyeChickens said:


> How do those chicks look at this point, adobo???


they should be all feathered out by now or nearly feathered.


----------



## ReTIRED

----ALTHOUGH I've never been there....I, too, am a "FAN" of the Philippines.
( My Father was one of the "Battling Bastards of Bataan" in World War II. The Filipinos were very good to him and also _FOUGHT WELL _*! *)

I'm NOT a fan of Bantam Chickens, or Frizzles, or Sizzles, or Silkies. I like BIG Chickens...BIGGER the BETTER *! Ha-Ha !

BUT....*I do enjoy looking at the "Genetics" involved. _Maybe...._I'll learn something. (_maybe_)

I did learn that a Guinea/Chicken CROSS is infertile. ....so I DID learn something.

BEST to YOU, Adobo *! 

GOOD GROUP HERE !!! 
*-ReTIRED-


----------



## BuckeyeChickens

ReTIRED said:


> I'm NOT a fan of Bantam Chickens, or Frizzles, or Sizzles, or Silkies. I like BIG Chickens...BIGGER the BETTER *! Ha-Ha !*
> 
> *GOOD GROUP HERE !!! *
> -ReTIRED-


I'll have to agree with that statement ReTIRED!!! I was just curious how adobo was making out with those "intermediate" sized chicks....not so concerned with feathering just wondering if the size is what I was thinking???


----------



## ReTIRED

I suppose WE _ALL _have our differing opinions as to what/which chickens we each prefer. That's GOOD...in that it helps preserve the diversity !

Yes....I _wonder _also....how the sizes of Adobo's cross turned out !
I _try to _absorb some information on "Genetics" and I _READ _such postings and some literature....but I have no "background" in THAT sort of study. So...I'm easily overwhelmed by the various "_alleles", etc.
_VERY INTERESTING, however !
 
-ReTIRED-


----------



## adobo

Hello All,

Its been a while since I last logged in here.

Here is my update on this project after 3 mos

here is my frizzle male









female frizzle









female straight feather with mohawk









i got another brown female but was not able to take a pic.

I will conclude that these offsprings will inherit the size of their mother. the male is now equally sized with here mother as of this posting given that he is are barely 5 mos old. the females are already equal sized with their father.

Now that I got a male frizzle, I will pair him with a bantam female in hope to get a smaller version.


----------



## ReTIRED

*VERY interesting.....*and informative *!
*( I like the LOOKS of the "straight-feathered with Mohawk". )
*Good Luck* with your further portions of this experiment *!
*( Keep us informed as things proceed...if you will, please.)
BEST REGARDS and WISHES,
-ReTIRED-


----------



## piglett

*mabuhay,kumusta po*
*my wife like the looks of your frizzle female*
*i myself like the white hen in the last picture*
*our 1 silkie hen wants to brood eggs almost all of the time *
*not that i mind : )*

*take care*
*piglett*



adobo said:


> Hello All,
> 
> Its been a while since I last logged in here.
> 
> Here is my update on this project after 3 mos
> 
> here is my frizzle male
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> female frizzle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> female straight feather with mohawk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i got another brown female but was not able to take a pic.
> 
> I will conclude that these offsprings will inherit the size of their mother. the male is now equally sized with here mother as of this posting given that he is are barely 5 mos old. the females are already equal sized with their father.
> 
> Now that I got a male frizzle, I will pair him with a bantam female in hope to get a smaller version.


----------

