# It’s crab moving day!



## Overmountain1

Hehe it really is! I have been trying to set up this 72 gal bowfront tank for them for a year and a half. First, I wanted a drain bc if the sand gets too saturated it causes issues. Pretty reasonable, right? Wrong. Had to design a complete drainage system, bc additionally, when we attempted to drill out the bottom we discovered it was, after all, also safety glass. Grrrr. Did you know they do this with most all tanks? Which is silly bc so many ways require drilling a tank, even just a saltwater setup. Anyway. 
That was a big hurdle, and then we got chickens!  Then I had sand but used it for other stuff and needed more etc etc.

Point is, today I have my cocofibers already soaked in a bucket ready to mix and dump. Anyone wanna help me hand mix 400lbs or so of material? No? Ah, well, I'll share the results once I get it done. I'm trying to move my big ones over before they hit the molt mark in just a few weeks- the Jumbos only go down about once a year, but it's for 2-3 months at a time. I'm down to about 13 crabs to swap over, I've taken some losses the past couple years. Which is ok, I knew I would which is why I didn't mind having as many as I did for a while. (24? I think.) And I have 3 others waiting to come live here too. 

I am trying out a way of having a climbable background; it is cocofiber mats ziptied to that egg crate/fluorescent lighting stuff shown. Will see how they do- it will have about a foot of sand to start, and it'll probably settle out to about 10" for them. Hoping it all comes together good finally!

*on the drainage; we filled the entire bottom with bartop grade epoxy- it's what makes them so shiny and impermeable- and durable! We poured that in and then drilled it, added a drain made for live wells- it has two crossbars so nothing can go thru it. Then there is a layer of the egg crate with pea gravels in the squares, and then we used a layer of cloth filter stuff, like they use in a lot of water filtration systems. It's pretty neat. Sand will not permeate this! And then another layer of egg crate with slightly larger gravel to pin it between the two, and prevent any crabs getting stuck under it! Always a huge concern, those little suckers will shove their way in these crazy spots sometimes!

Alright, that wasn't very informative but lengthy, I think I'm procrastinating.... I'll share some pics later of the whole process. It's been a long road! Oh and custom painted cabinet for it too. With sea glass cabinet pulls.


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## robin416

I'm excited to see what it looks like when it all comes together and the crabs are in their new homes. 

How did you solve the drainage issue?


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## Poultry Judge

How cool is that! I also appreciate the work involved!


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## danathome

Very, very cool. You have one unique hobby. Have you every had them reproduce?


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## Overmountain1

PJ- I have not yet, but now in the new environment with the soon to be upgraded pools I might. To reproduce it of course takes them being satisfied and comfortable w their surroundings, but also proper water conditions. The female carries the eggs for I think it's about two weeks, and then she releases the hatching zoeae into the saltwater. Which means we need a proper saltwater setup within the tank, as you would do for fish. It's coming. Just not there yet. My BFF crabbing friend has had her exotics release the babies, and a professional (check out https://maryakers.com/inthecrabitat/ ) has raised them to land thus far. I am to receive 4 of them when they're ready to rehome. They're barely larger than a grain of sand to start- so cool. Anyway. That is that. 

Robin- the drain is unique. Once the bottom was busted out, we decided to marry the tank to the stand by simply pouring a bottom. We shimmed it so that one corner would be lowest, and placed a live well drain over there. On top, I used one layer of the 'egg crate' they use for fluorescent lighting, with screened to size small pea gravel filling in all the holes. Next is a layer of nano- technology type filter that is used to filter particulates from water professionally. A whole huge sheet of it laid across the top, then a second layer of the egg crate and slightly larger gravel to pin the layer in place and prevent crabs from picking at it and/or getting stuck underneath it. (They're curious, kinda like chickens, and go to the weirdest spot you can imagine while exploring- and then trash the tank when you aren't looking! Lol

I finally moved them last night. Still waiting for the glass lid but they are doing good so far! Several shell changes, lots of movement, no major fights yet. 

This is Ryder, my strawberry crab. They are one of the most curious and busy breeds, notably during the day more often. 









This is Princess, my largest and one of the most tame. She is a purple pincher, and guessing by size can say she's for sure more than 20 years old, likely more like 25? At a guess. You cannot know for certain unless you count their antennae growth which requires an autopsy...

















And lastly, here we have Miss M.E., which was Mr EnDoh. Then Misserendoh. Anyway- she's an Indonesian crab, waiting on 3 other Indo friends to come live with her! 

















And there is a shot of the tank before I moved them in. I added one large round log on the right also, and extra shells, and food, but here it is, a year and a half later.... oops!


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## robin416

I don't think I've ever seen them as big as Princess. Being in your hand really gives an idea of her size.

Love their habitat. It's pleasing to look at I can imagine it's a focal point for everyone that sees it. What are the two dishes for? 

I could sit and watch them interacting with each other or just exploring their new digs.


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## Overmountain1

They are funny to watch- they'll all try to pile in the wheel at once, or one climbs on the outside while the other is inside, acrobatics, antics, always something to see... ok usually.  They're silly things.

One dish is fresh water and the second is salt water. Both include some craft mesh to help them climb in and out. Sometimes they do like to go swimming or soak.

Princess is considered a 'jumbo'- and believe it or not she will continue to grow, albeit at a slower rate now of course. She's a good girl- I got her <from a guy leaving for college> at the same time as the other jumbo (who runs like the sand is on fire when I get too close), and the Indo too. And the strawberry, Red Ryder, came later... He's got a story... the previous owner cleaned out the tank when he was giving me all his crabs- was supposed to be 8, including Ryder and a second strawberry, but Ryder had disappeared. They took all sand out, still nothing... figured he must've died molting or something. 6 weeks later I get a text from the guy- they found him crawling around the basement!  My husband happened to be passing Va Tech while his parents were coming to visit, and so we could play musical chairs with Ryder to get here. Crazy crabs!!! Dunno where he was but we think he molted in a pot during this time- otherwise? I don't have a clue how he would've found what he needs. Anyway, sorry!

And thank you. I'm really pleased with the outcome. I tried something a bit different with the cocofiber background. I used, you guessed it, egg crate, and ziptied the cocofiber mats onto it, built the shelf and ramp etc. I don't think I'm first ever but one of the pioneers anyway! They seem to love being able to climb it so easy. Will see how long it holds up now. They also love to pick. At everything.


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## danathome

Fascinating! I had no idea they came in various species and sizes. Will you be making it a community setup with different species and niches? This kind of hobby could grow and grow in intricacies; only limited by the imagination and pocketbook.


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## robin416

I could sit and watch them for hours interacting with their habitat. 

So, Ryder is an escape artist. I hope you had him in mind when putting the new digs together. 

You did post a pic with the fiber part way up the egg crate. That stuff is so useful for so many things. I use it in my orchids water tray.


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## Poultry Judge

Wow, thanks for the pics and update, fascinating!!!


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## Overmountain1

No, thanks for giving me said venue to drone on about my totally non chicken related pets. 

But then, on the subject of velociraptors, and ancient creatures... crabs are pretty far back too!


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## robin416

But that's what this part of the forum is for. I talk about my Guineas, yes they're birds but they're not chickens.


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## Poultry Judge

No


robin416 said:


> But that's what this part of the forum is for. I talk about my Guineas, yes they're birds but they're not chickens.


No, because they're Raptors!


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## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> No
> 
> No, because they're Raptors!


And I post of dogs and bonsai!


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## robin416

See? We're not so closed minded and make it about chickens only. It's what keeps the group interesting and fresh.

We just have to figure out how to get some of the others to venture away from the topics they started.


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## Poultry Judge

Yes!


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## Overmountain1

Lol! Sorry, y'all, it's weird bc I'm still home all the time but suddenly feel busier? Who knows!?!

Crabs are loving the new digs though. They're all over the place, and I've been able to get some good pics too.  

























And I thought I'd include one with the chicken whisperer here.


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## Poultry Judge

Thanks for posting, great pics!


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## robin416

You'd be in trouble if I lived closer. I'd be there watching the tank for hours.

Do they have a certain time they molt?

The birds look like, "yeah, save me the work. Tote me around for a while." It's great you have one that a natural when it comes to the birds.


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## Overmountain1

I do too- I'll be in the middle of walking past to do something totally unrelated and get stuck at the tank, looking at them and poking around.  We live in a ranch home, and it is basically right at the center, at the end of the hall just in the living area, so we pass it constantly. Enough that I even will cover it some nights so our shadows crossing back and forth don't startle them as often. They're kinda like chickens, their instincts override their habits sometimes. A shadow means danger, doesn't it?! 

They're neat critters. How often they molt depends on a host of factors, but the main one is size. The smaller they are the more often they have to molt to continue growing. Obviously they grow faster than the older and larger ones, and once they reach my Princess' size they molt about once a year. It is time right about now, usually the shortest days of the year. The littles molt in just a couple weeks or a month, and the jumbos take 2+ months. It's all relative. If they do not have access to sand or a safe place to Molt, they can also put it off for a while. Unfortunately this does cause a buildup of excess toxins, but they are generally able to shed those when they finally do molt. Usually one molt will take care of them, but sometimes more are needed, depending. And there's your hermie lesson of the day!


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## Overmountain1

Also, Robin, here there or anywhere you are welcome to come stare at my crabs anytime!


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## robin416

I really can see you doing that. They are fascinating to me.

That makes sense. Young chickens go through several molts their first year. 

I'd be worried the entire time waiting for them to emerge from their molt. Two months is really a long time.


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## robin416

Overmountain1 said:


> Also, Robin, here there or anywhere you are welcome to come stare at my crabs anytime!


LOL If I still lived in TN it could happen.


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## Poultry Judge

Overmountain1 said:


> I do too- I'll be in the middle of walking past to do something totally unrelated and get stuck at the tank, looking at them and poking around.  We live in a ranch home, and it is basically right at the center, at the end of the hall just in the living area, so we pass it constantly. Enough that I even will cover it some nights so our shadows crossing back and forth don't startle them as often. They're kinda like chickens, their instincts override their habits sometimes. A shadow means danger, doesn't it?!
> 
> They're neat critters. How often they molt depends on a host of factors, but the main one is size. The smaller they are the more often they have to molt to continue growing. Obviously they grow faster than the older and larger ones, and once they reach my Princess' size they molt about once a year. It is time right about now, usually the shortest days of the year. The littles molt in just a couple weeks or a month, and the jumbos take 2+ months. It's all relative. If they do not have access to sand or a safe place to Molt, they can also put it off for a while. Unfortunately this does cause a buildup of excess toxins, but they are generally able to shed those when they finally do molt. Usually one molt will take care of them, but sometimes more are needed, depending. And there's your hermie lesson of the day!


Interesting!


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## Overmountain1

Hey, you can even do a drive by crab stare- passing thru, stop n stare, then keep going. That counts right? 

And- yes. It's terribly nerve wracking. Molts are the biggest and main reason we lose crabs. We simply do the best we know how for them and feed them the best we know how and keep our fingers n toes crossed that they'll pop back up in a while! They literally have to take their outer layer and separate it from the rest of every single bit of them, and basically split it and crawl backwards out of the thing. Then their bodies will remain soft for a time, anywhere from a day to several, although they don't fully harden for a bit longer. And the best part is that the scent they give off when they molt is the most appetizing thing ever to other crabs, so if someone finds them when molting they can be injured or worse, or almost as bad is that their molted exoskeleton gets stolen. They have to ingest the 'exo' to regain lost minerals and calcium, and replace energy. So that's a hard hit to a freshly molted crab. Anyway. More lessons! Hahaha.

When nobody is up and moving?- we call that pet sand. It's the worst! Ah!


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## robin416

That would be a two day trip one way. I chose the wrong time to move out of TN. 

So, if they survive all of the challenges do they emerge naked and choose a new home? What's that like? Do they shop and shop before finding the right one?


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## Overmountain1

They shop for shells all differently; some breeds are more prone to certain habits but it primarily depends on the individual. I have one crab, Dave, actually our first one! Anyway, Dave likes to try on all kinds of pants. Anytime I add a few he's the first to stick his butt in them and check em out! 
While others, the Ecuadorian breed in particular, are very very hesitant to change shells, and will often be found in shells that are only barely large enough for them; bc they won't let go of the one they have, not bc there aren't other options.

Molt is unusual. They keep their shells throughout, as their abdomens are extremely soft and vulnerable they need the protection back there, even from sand. They dig down and make a 'molt cave' in a place they feel is safe, and then they start the process. Sometimes they will dig more than one cave before settling someplace.

Ok they're a little gross looking outside the shells, not gonna lie. (I didn't pick the one of the underside view for the same reason! Lol) But here's a look at the abdomen in particular. It does not have an exoskeleton and therefore will not shed with the rest of the body.


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## robin416

They have gills? 

OK, learned more stuff. I didn't know the abdomen was exposed and not protected and not part of the molt. So, after the molt they return to the surface and usually go shopping for new clothes? Or are the liable to keep the same shell if all they did was molt and not grow larger?

I guess what I'm asking is do they change shells after every molt?


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## Overmountain1

They do have what are co side red 'modified' gills, which is how they are able to transition from water to land, but maintain the ability to breathe underwater for short periods of time, or longer if the water is extremely oxygenated. My friend had one that stayed in the salt water at the bottom for the better part of 3 days before molt- we thought she was dead at first! Crazy thing.

The answer for the shells is yes- sometimes! Just depends- on the crab, the growth rate, and their current mood.  And energy levels also play a part in what shell to choose as well. Larger shells are roomier and last longer, but they do, of course, require larger stores of energy to haul around. Some crabs even hide bits of food in their shells as a snack for later. None of mine that I've seen but others have witnessed it. Children....

I have a LOT of shells now. I've bought 1-2 here and there for the past couple years, I have had quite a few given to me, and then I buy them good shells at the beach in the summer. That's my souvenir, the thing I want to spend 'my money' on for the trip. I get to enjoy it year round, often modeled quite fashionably for me. 

Thanks Robin!


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## robin416

I really hate that we don't live closer but then you'd get sick of seeing me as I just stand there and watch the animals. 

I kind of sort of knew they went into water but I didn't realize that they are actually adapted to be underwater too.

That is an absolute hoot about the food hoarding. Do they have a hierarchy like our birds do? Where I'm going with that question is, could those that hide food be low on the totem pole and that prompts them to hide food?

Isn't that what we all do? Get souvenirs that directly relate to our addictions?


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## Overmountain1

Absolutely! Crabs are kinda like living plants.... that change their pots! 

There is a bit of push and shove that goes on, but to our silly human eyes there aren't any discernible order. They sometimes form a little clique that will sleep together during the day, or play together regularly, but (aside from the rare times they do mate) they don't stick to them exclusively or even long term necc. 
However, there are occasional overly aggressive crabs, or protective of an item or spot or food. Occasionally ppl have found one torn apart for seemingly no reason by another/other crabs. Generally these are results of either an imbalanced/poor diet or overcrowding though, and can be corrected- usually! You know. Never a hard and fast rule with any of it.

No, really, thanks for taking an interest- I enjoy sharing them w ppl, so I really would let you bring your lawn chair and park and watch when you wanted to.  And hey- the more who know more about these fellas the better their odds are for the future!


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## robin416

Unless you can't tell I'm absolutely fascinated with them and if I was younger would probably seriously investigate having a few. 

But there can be overly aggressive crabs when things are in balance? Just like every other living being? 

They play together? 

So, when you set up the big tank how many did you have up and running before you moved the gang to their new digs? And now you have empty digs to put more crabs in? Is that like chicken math?


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## Poultry Judge

Wow, so interesting! I'm still stuck on the part about shopping for a new shell. I, for one, would not want to be naked shopping for a new home!


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## robin416

You are such a dork.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> You are such a dork.


It's a legitimate fear and something I worry about.


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## robin416

It's in your nightmares?


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## Poultry Judge

Much of the time, but I keep my tears inside, I try not to go on about it.


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## robin416

OM, I think we might have a problem on our hands.


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## Poultry Judge

Yeah, but I'm in Ohio practicing social distancing, so y'all are safe. When I'm sad I talk to the gubmint psycholygist at Fossil Ledges.


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## robin416

Oh, Baby One got an new job? I can't think of a better choice for you to pour all your thoughts to.


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## Poultry Judge

The Peafowl are indeed patient listeners!


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## robin416

They have to be much better compared to Guineas.


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## Overmountain1

Robin, We definitely have a problem on our hands.... 

But then, we already knew and accepted it, I guess we can't complain about the strays when we start feeding them! 

I think I have about 13 crabs left total. Used to be over 20. There are always early losses, due to stress and injuries during shipment, and some simply don't adjust to captivity. It's so hard to see the numbers drop like that, knowing that they are capable of such longevity. 
There should be...10 that I have moved in so far! I love having them together for so many reasons, but one big one is the maintenance! Soooo much easier to care for one large than 5 smaller tanks. Water and food and just lights off/on etc. I have a cheap timer I could put them on but I don't like to unless we are gone or something. Idk why.

I have two tiny crabs in there, maybe grape sized, and two slightly larger than that, and then their sizes jump all the way up to large and jumbo! I don't really have many in the middle anymore. There are 2-3 more needing to pop up so I can move them- assuming they WILL pop up anyway. I don't have reason to believe they won't specifically, but I have a gut feeling about at least one that isn't good.


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## robin416

I definitely get how much easier it is to have one central tank to maintain and to be able to see all of them at once for any problems. 

Oh! You're waiting on some to complete their molt? Since moving has been going on how does that work? Do you leave shells for them in case they want some new pants? Do you have to wait for a time before moving them after they emerge?


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## Overmountain1

I'm going to give each of the two tanks I potentially 'left' crabs in about a month before I start digging for them. Digging is NOT recommended, which is easy to see now that you know how they molt etc! But, in these cases, if they aren't back by.... say Jan 15 or so, they aren't likely to come back up. Possible but unlikely, given their size a s the length of time etc etc. but there are no guarantees in crabbing! 

And yes, I did leave a small handful of shells in each of those just in case they want to swap when they're back. Fingers crossed- I'm only truly anticipating one. Two would make me thrilled, and 3 or more would blow my mind!


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## Overmountain1

And yes, they do play.... this was one of the more usual activities, with more than one on the wheel tonight; slightly less normal was my little guy riding around the outside while the big fella walked on it- you can see how the little one is blurred from moving along faster than the inner.... too funny. Reminds me of those moving sidewalks in airports, where some walk and go faster.... or a grownup beside a toddler w long vs short legs.... idk it amuses me!


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## robin416

After all you taught us about them I knew you were risking a great deal if they haven't emerged on their own and started looking for them. How in the heck can you possibly keep track of who hasn't emerged in X time? Will you keep some sort of chart to mark who disappeared and when they should emerge.

Who in the heck discovered they would use a wheel? That's one of those things that would be fun to watch them do.


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## Overmountain1

It is. They're very klutzy and kinda dorky in their clumsiness sometimes- endless entertainment ops! 

I guess it is kind of like taking care of chickens/poultry- you might be the only person who could tell them apart, but not only can we tell them apart at a glance, we know about when they did X,Y, or Z! I tried to keep up with molt dates initially, but they're so tricky about it that they'd dig down under the sand 2-3x before they'd actually stay gone! I got tired of striking thru and rewriting, so now if I think of it I will write down the date I first see them back and an estimated time of molt. Certain sizes mean an average amount of time per size and while there are always exceptions, it's usually not too bad to keep up with. I quit stressing it if I didn't though. I lost a lot of the Es early on- me and my friend got 10 to start, a little over a year and a half ago. We were down to just 4 within that first year, and neither of us can say why, other than to surmise they had a hard trip here from Ecuador. Just don't know enough about them to be able to help more than this yet.


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## robin416

True. And just like the chickens they have certain behaviors that if you see something different you know to watch.

I guess it's not like popping eggs in an incubator and writing the date down and knowing when they should hatch.


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## Overmountain1

More night time/early morning wheel play- and yes they do know exactly what they're doing here. They do work cooperatively to play like this, as they would work together in the wild to reach something good to eat! Behavior has been observed where they have piled up in order for others to reach the goods and pull it down for them (if possible anyway!) pretty cool. We also know now that the older and larger crabs teach the little ones. Where to find food, water, shelter, how to do certain things and act certain ways. Really cool, and that is something we are still learning about. The recent large clutch of captive babies gave us a sample group- 2-4 at a time adopted out, sent all over the country to various crabbers. They found that the babies that were placed in a tank with larger crabs grew significantly faster as well.

Ok sorry- I thought you'd enjoy those odd little factoids too though!  I really think it's neat how much we are still learning about them, and they being an old/ancient life form as they are.

Ok they loaded swapped, but here are some of them settling in for the day, Princess tipped back against a rock, and Corn up on the shelf.  Corn had a friend, Pop, that did not make it. Originally they wore the same type of shell and I couldn't tell them apart so I just named them PopCorn for the time being!  Anyway- daytime, then a fuzzy wheel pic. They just wouldn't hold still! 


















Edit: I adopted most of my crabs from others who could no longer keep them. First 1, picked up in WVa a couple hours drive, then another 3 (I drove the 4 hours to almost Nashville for them), and then I drove to Manassas (6 hours) to adopt the 9 crabs from a guy. The following day I drove north an extra 3 hours to meet my friend Kelly, who took some of those for her colony too.

If anyone does decide to start crabbing, adoption is a much better bet for a lot of reasons. Health being the top reason, of course. Just food for thought!


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## robin416

I really enjoy reading those little tidbits about their behavior and how they get along when it comes to surviving. 

That business about learning from the older crabs is very much like chicks and other babies learning from their mothers. It's just one of those things you don't think about when it comes to those little creatures.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> I really enjoy reading those little tidbits about their behavior and how they get along when it comes to surviving.
> 
> That business about learning from the older crabs is very much like chicks and other babies learning from their mothers. It's just one of those things you don't think about when it comes to those little creatures.


Yes, thank you, it's all so interesting! The pics are great!


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## Overmountain1

One other thing- this is one of my favorite clips about them, it's from BBC and shows them changing shells in the wild. Really cute and cool.  Worth a view if you haven't seen it, or even if you have! I've watched it at least 5x.


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## robin416

I can see why. There was such a frenzy going on it was hard to keep track. But I'm really surprised to see how swiftly they were able to change over.


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## Overmountain1

It’s so funny! 

But my mouth, tonight, is not. Ouch. Just had to add that. Hope everyone is well!


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## robin416

Oh, someone has been to the dentist.


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## Poultry Judge

Hope you feel better!


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## Overmountain1

Well, your wishes have made it stop hurting already!  
I'd say I'm kidding but actually- once the ibuprofen kicked back in, it came down to a bearable level. For now. Tomorrow and the next will be the worst tho. 

It's all worth it.  Thank you. Truly.


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## robin416

Love ibuprofen after a rough visit to the dentist. And after any surgery. Stuff works. 

Is this your excuse to eat all the ice cream you want?


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## Overmountain1

Who me??? Hahaha I have a quart of ice cream from a local dairy, egg nog flavor I'm slowly working my way thru!  It's coming along. Mostly soft and liquid (ok they said all but it ain't my first rodeo, there are still a few things edible they wouldn't agree with tho!) ya know, as long as I'm careful and gentle, I can still eat my favorite homemade gingerbread dipped in white chocolate cookies, made by the lady i house sit for! Oh they're so yummy. Hehe. They will melt in my mouth. Then what's the problem? 

And yes, my ginormous sweet tooth probably never helped much when it came to my teeth, but even when I tried cutting it out it didn't slow anything that I could tell. Meh. 

Feeling pretty good so far today, too. Not too much swelling!


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## robin416

I'd be in trouble, I'm not much for non stop sweets. Do you have protein shakes? Might be a good idea.

How long did they say before you're back to eating steaks?


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## Poultry Judge

Overmountain1 said:


> Who me??? Hahaha I have a quart of ice cream from a local dairy, egg nog flavor I'm slowly working my way thru!  It's coming along. Mostly soft and liquid (ok they said all but it ain't my first rodeo, there are still a few things edible they wouldn't agree with tho!) ya know, as long as I'm careful and gentle, I can still eat my favorite homemade gingerbread dipped in white chocolate cookies, made by the lady i house sit for! Oh they're so yummy. Hehe. They will melt in my mouth. Then what's the problem?
> 
> And yes, my ginormous sweet tooth probably never helped much when it came to my teeth, but even when I tried cutting it out it didn't slow anything that I could tell. Meh.
> 
> Feeling pretty good so far today, too. Not too much swelling!


That's good! Hoping for a smooth recovery!


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## Overmountain1

If it heals like it did last time, it was about 2 months before I could start getting adventurous. They say the 4th week is actually the least stable, even though the pain is gone, so you really do have to be more careful for those few weeks after that. That's as I was instructed anyway! 

It's not too bad. Honestly I can eat most stuff as long as I don't put much pressure on the bottoms. I can snap it off w tongue and top teeth too, and soften it up before going on about eating it. Practice makes perfect, right?? Lol I definitely couldn't let my (unexpected delivery of) favorite cookies go to waste....


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## Overmountain1

Thank you PJ! I have been really blessed through the entire procedure with an excellent team taking care of me. I am so grateful I found the office when I did. 

Here’s a recommendation for everyone; check online reviews for drs and find the one where people say things that agree with your own opinion, not necc the top ranked or most reviews- but the one that fits you best. Jmo, it has made a big difference since I started doing it more like that.


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## Poultry Judge

Overmountain1 said:


> Thank you PJ! I have been really blessed through the entire procedure with an excellent team taking care of me. I am so grateful I found the office when I did.
> 
> Here's a recommendation for everyone; check online reviews for drs and find the one where people say things that agree with your own opinion, not necc the top ranked or most reviews- but the one that fits you best. Jmo, it has made a big difference since I started doing it more like that.


That is good advice that folks don't often consider.


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## robin416

LOL I go looking for the negative reviews. You can tell a lot from those. Like someone complaining just to complain with no real reason to complain. But there are others that are very telling.


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## Overmountain1

Yes! Those are equally informative- at least some of the time, as you say. And it's easy to see who just wanted to whine.


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## Overmountain1

This is as good a place as any- just a little update on my missing-feathers hen. Well, it appeared she was molting after all. She lost her tail feathers and alll the head and neck feathers, and they've mostly grown back now. That's her behind Quack- and you can see his little bits of frostbite on his waddles there too, poor buddy! I am proud to say he has taken no more damage thus far despite the extreme weather. Yay! Anyway- Moo has no more tail behind Q in this pic, she's just funny and short looking. Never lost body feathers though. Some of her fluffy butt was all. Well, now....










We have our other hen, Neigh, who appears to be molting too. And she's just molting along her back and tail- sporadically. You can see here how it's getting patchy. Well, none of this would concern me, but.... just wanted to be sure it seemed kinda normal? Terrible time to molt, I have to say, but- are they? Why hasn't Moo lost any others? What are they doing?!? (Aside from making their owner nuts....)


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## Overmountain1

And I had to share this one from this morning cause- awwww


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## robin416

Overmountain1 said:


> This is as good a place as any- just a little update on my missing-feathers hen. Well, it appeared she was molting after all. She lost her tail feathers and alll the head and neck feathers, and they've mostly grown back now. That's her behind Quack- and you can see his little bits of frostbite on his waddles there too, poor buddy! I am proud to say he has taken no more damage thus far despite the extreme weather. Yay! Anyway- Moo has no more tail behind Q in this pic, she's just funny and short looking. Never lost body feathers though. Some of her fluffy butt was all. Well, now....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have our other hen, Neigh, who appears to be molting too. And she's just molting along her back and tail- sporadically. You can see here how it's getting patchy. Well, none of this would concern me, but.... just wanted to be sure it seemed kinda normal? Terrible time to molt, I have to say, but- are they? Why hasn't Moo lost any others? What are they doing?!? (Aside from making their owner nuts....)


Neigh's actually looks like that could be damage from being mounted.

There really isn't a timeline and sometimes they're sneaky molters. You don't even know it's happening because the feather loss is so light.


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## robin416

Overmountain1 said:


> And I had to share this one from this morning cause- awwww


LOL That's exactly what I said when I saw the pic.


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## Overmountain1

She doesn't seem to be getting a whole lot of action from the rooster that I've seen, but they are in the coop so many hours this time of year I'm sure there's a lot I miss altogether.

However, when she walks around sometimes it's like she's leaving a trail to find her way back again, they just seem to fall right out. It's not every day I see this, and it could still be from being mounted and simply pulled loose. If she gets any more bald I might actually use the chicken saddle I bought, and see how bad she hates it (or not.) I figured it wouldn't hurt to keep one around and I was right!

Oh, I just dug out one of the 'tanks' where I lost a couple of crabs. Ugh. The worst. Unfortunately I had a bit of a flood in this one (it was just way over saturated, but nothing standing for me to see.) This created before or after a crab went to molt what we call a bacterial bloom. Pretty straight forward! Long story short, at least I know what went wrong w these guys, and I also know that it cannot happen in the new one thanks to my overbuilt drainage system! 

Thanks for the replies- I'm just gonna keep an eye on them (as usual) and try to sort the mystery.


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## robin416

If she's leaving a trail then she probably is molting.

I'm sorry. I know you hate losing any of them. That is one part of the crabs' lifestyle I'd have a hard time dealing with. I'd obsess over them being OK and re emerging as they should.


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## robin416

OM, look! http://www.sci-news.com/biology/cancellus-heatherae-09201.html

Although your group has probably already seen this I thought of you right away.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> OM, look! http://www.sci-news.com/biology/cancellus-heatherae-09201.html
> 
> Although your group has probably already seen this I thought of you right away.


How cool is that? Very colorful!


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## robin416

Strange, aren't they? The thing that got my attention is that their abdomens must be covered in a tough membrane to not be all cut up by the coral. 

OM said the ones she has sand will kill them if they aren't in a shell.


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## janamsingh

the pictures are really beautiful. but i am just a little concerned about the cost of these guys? they must be expensive to get?


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## robin416

My guess is those really nice digs she put together for the crabs is where a large chunk of the money is.

Living where you do, Janam, I'll bet they would be very expensive for you.


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## Overmountain1

Hey there! Yes, the cost is mainly in the tank portions. However! I’m not sure if you have similar but I found my tank using LetGo, an app, and got that big ol tank and stand for just $75! No lie. It needed work, and then we had to do it a little different but it worked out. Point is, yes. It can get expensive quickly- more the electronics than anything. Depending on where you live you may need a heating mat for the crabs to keep the tanks temp up, and lighting for them to simulate natural environment etc. so those are my bigger investments. Large pieces of cholla wood can be found for sale on eBay, prices vary. So, yes. It isn’t super cheap, that’s def true. And their diet does require a huge range of foods.... but if you start small you can easily work your way up as you’re able to. 

Half my crabs lived in plastic totes for over a year while I got the tank stuff sorted out for them! It doesn’t have to be anything expensive as long as you have enough sand to bury themselves in x3, the temp and humidity is good, some entertainment can be scavenged, so——- it depends! 


The original question- the crabs themselves were almost all adopted. The few that weren’t just came from Petsmart.


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## robin416

OM, he's in Afghanistan. But the hermit crabs would be right up there with some of the things he enjoys. 

Now to get him back here again in a reasonable amount of time.


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## Overmountain1

Oh yes! I couldn’t say with any certainty what any of that might run where he is then, that’s for certain. But, if the rest of it helps and he wants to pursue it, he is always welcome to hit me up. They really are pretty fascinating little things.


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## Overmountain1

Oh! I got on here to do this earlier but was so shocked by Dan’s post I forgot.... 

Speaking of isopods, here are a big clump of them, they love this fake grass stuff apparently! 
And Darma, sleeping like a ding dong....


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## robin416

Dan's post? That must have happened while I was doing stuff. Like taking a nap. 

I need some of those in my bird pens. Well, as long as the birds didn't eat them all. 

OK, what did you all do to embarrass Darma?


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## Overmountain1

Darma is Darma. 
We just call her ‘darmatic’ and leave it at that. She’s pretty inexplicable!


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## Poultry Judge

That's a good name!


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## Overmountain1

Poultry Judge said:


> That's a good name!


Why thank you PJ! She’s named for being “The Most Dramatic Chicken” as well as doing the dumbest thing possible given an option (Darwin.) But she’s clearly an affectionate and sweet (and entertaining) lass.


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## robin416

What in the world did you do to entertain yourself before chickens came into your life?


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## Overmountain1

You really want me to answer that.....?


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## robin416

I'm not eating or drinking anything at the moment so it's safe.


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## Overmountain1

Welllll...... nah I used to be sorta normal! I gardened and worked part time, sent these kids to school (gladly) and messed around on social media some.... and I read. No, I devour books. Fiction mostly, but I’m into politics as well so that too. 
Politics is actually another interest/pursuit of mine, both/neither side, mainly just facts and info. Which I double and cross check.  I follow on the global scale as well as National.... that’s as much as I’ll mention of anything politic on here, don’t worry. At least I do try to avoid it, very much. 

Alright folks, here is a prime example of a molt incident. Clearly Ryder is missing at least a full joint of outer walking leg, it looks like it just never formed up properly and is a bit clubbed. Straws are notoriously hard to molt successfully, so I’m going to be grateful this is the only issue in 3 molt cycles. He be-boos around all over and I just saw it yesterday after being up for more than a week. He just had been facing toward me or the opposite side. 
And yes, he should be able to self correct this in short order. Sometimes these will cause a Crab to molt back to back, if it is severe enough- and that is really risky too. Sometimes they’ll go a really long time and be totally fine next time, or have a shorter and smaller piece than they would have otherwise but is ok by the second time. They’re odd.


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## robin416

You can see a little tiny nub there at the end of his leg. What happens when they molt? Do they also shed part of their limbs?


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## Overmountain1

You recall the picture of the naked crab, and their slug-like abdomen? Their exoskeleton detaches and splits from there and it comes off and leaves basically an empty shell; they don’t turn it inside out or anything, just slide out. At least it’s supposed to work that way. Different factors like diet and humidity can cause various issues, this looks like he maybe got stuck when it got to that particular joint, whether injury or something else, and so dropped that end of a leg to finish the molt. It is common with the strawberries. Unfortunately for the most part they don’t do as well in captivity. There are a few hardy ones that stick around, but they are a challenge to keep. Does that help? It’s a bit weird.


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## robin416

Yes it does. Basically it self amputated to complete the molt. That is awe inspiring. 

If he's gone through three molts with you something must be right to keep him happy. So, don't change anything.


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