# Purina Layena



## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

I am starting my chickies Nutrena Starter grower 18% (non medicated), how long should I keep them on the grower? And when I switch them off the grower… is Purina Layena a good feed to keep them on? I was thinking about feeding this....... And can I mix BOSS in with their feed? I will be letting my birds out to forage around once a day too...... And is Purina Flock Block good? What time can I give them one of these? And what time should I give them their oyster shells???? Thanks in advance. 

~Cade 


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

Does anyone have anything to say about Purina Layena???? 


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## LittleWings (Jul 15, 2013)

I personally don't like Purina for three reasons. 1. It cost too much. 2. It uses plant protein instead of animal protein. 3. It stinks when I ferment it. That is just me. I know there are lots of people who have used it for years and love it. It won't hurt them, they will do fine on it.
Good luck.


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

LittleWings said:


> I personally don't like Purina for three reasons. 1. It cost too much. 2. It uses plant protein instead of animal protein. 3. It stinks when I ferment it. That is just me. I know there are lots of people who have used it for years and love it. It won't hurt them, they will do fine on it.
> Good luck.


I dont WANT animal proteins. I want to raise my animals very very natural. Purina layena does not have the animal protein products. Isnt animal protein dead animals? Or am I thinking of something else? I am new to this so open my eyes if so. And I will not be fermenting it either........

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## Jim (Sep 26, 2012)

Remember, raising chickens naturally means they eat animal protein. Even if it is crickets, lizards, mice,and so on. Chickens are not vegetarians. Purine, never tried it, or flock is on soy free, non GMO feed, and free range. 


Jim


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

Jim said:


> Remember, raising chickens naturally means they eat animal protein. Even if it is crickets, lizards, mice,and so on. Chickens are not vegetarians. Purine, never tried it, or flock is on soy free, non GMO feed, and free range.
> 
> Jim


I think I would personally like to stay away from animal protein...... They will be free ranging every day.... So they can get it from there,

Thanks for your replies!

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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

If you have a mixed flock with roosters and pre-laying age chicks, watch the calcium in layer feeds, it's very hard on their systems. 

And yes, chickens are omnivorous. It's amazing what they will kill and eat, or scavenge if they can find it. If you want to feed them naturally as you possibly can, you are going to need to go with a feed that is similar to their natural diets. If they are getting most of their nutrition from free ranging and eating the feed as a supplement, then the plant based protein is fine, however if they are not the best thing to do is find animal protein to give them, and the easiest form of that is through the prepackaged feed. I supplement with kitchen scraps all year and cat food in the winter when they aren't able to forage for their proteins. 
Sometimes what we like is not what our animals need. I'd greatly prefer not having a flock of cannibals, for example. But on the same token I like the fact that they will clean up the guts and such that the dogs don't eat from their meals, and at slaughter time here they will practically sterilize my killing site they pick it so clean - so it works well for me and my birds in the end.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

CadesLilFarm said:


> I dont WANT animal proteins. I want to raise my animals very very natural. Purina layena does not have the animal protein products. Isnt animal protein dead animals? Or am I thinking of something else? I am new to this so open my eyes if so. And I will not be fermenting it either........
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Chicken Forum


I hate to tell you this but your plan means they are not being raised naturally. Chickens are omnivores, which means they eat animal based protein.

Once I located a feed based on animal protein my birds feathering became more than what I was looking for. The sheen to their feathers was like someone polished them.

These advertisers have convinced the public that chickens should not eat animal based proteins, declaring that is the right way. What it boils down to is they are saving themselves money on feed.

There was also a study some years ago that showed the sperm count went down in males on soy protein only diets.


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

robin416 said:


> I hate to tell you this but your plan means they are not being raised naturally. Chickens are omnivores, which means they eat animal based protein.
> 
> Once I located a feed based on animal protein my birds feathering became more than what I was looking for. The sheen to their feathers was like someone polished them.
> 
> ...


Soooo........... What feed would be good for them? F

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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I try to find a local mill or find a feed dealer that stock feeds from local mills. 

My co-op in the last place I lived in stocked a local mill's feed. Where I'm at now the local feed store carries from a local mill.

The other thing you need to be careful of is age. Get the absolute freshest that you can. Most feed stores have been told by sales reps that six month old feed is fine. Well, its not. By that time most of the vitamins have leached out of the feed.


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## Jim (Sep 26, 2012)

Age of feed is very important, especially when using minimally processed. That is another thing I love about the h and H feed, it is milled on Monday, delivered to me on Friday, customers pick up on Friday or Saturday, and the I order again in 2-4 weeks. It is more work on me to meet the deliver driver once or twice a month to do pickup, but it is how I want to feed my flock, and thus the way I sell the feed. 


Jim


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

Has anyone fed "Tribute" chicken feeds? I am switching my goats over to that...... Thinking of feeding it to my girls when they grow up........ I wanted to feed the 20% layer feed mixed with the scratch grains....... 


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Evidently they've been doing other livestock feeds for quite a while. What I saw for ingredients was "natural protein" which translates to soy. And they've jumped on the no animal meat protein band wagon.

I found references for horse people that are quite pleased with the results.


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

robin416 said:


> Evidently they've been doing other livestock feeds for quite a while. What I saw for ingredients was "natural protein" which translates to soy. And they've jumped on the no animal meat protein band wagon.
> 
> I found references for horse people that are quite pleased with the results.


Sooooo...... Is the soy in it ok?????

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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Soy is the main ingredient for protein. I don't like it. That's why I search out feeds with animal protein in them. But there is still some soy in even those that have the animal protein.


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

robin416 said:


> Soy is the main ingredient for protein. I don't like it. That's why I search out feeds with animal protein in them. But there is still some soy in even those that have the animal protein.


OK! So help me here....... I WANT my chickens eating dead animals???? Cause I thought they were herbivores........ What is a good feed then???? (No, I am not getting DuMOR feed either....) Please help me.... I wanna do what is best for them.....

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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

*Question 1*. Chickens should be fed layer feed when all laying. The differace is the amount of calcium in the feed. If given too soon this causes problems such as kidney stones and liver failure. This is dependent on breed. The production hybrids (Production red, Amber star, Austra white...) lay around 4 months. The heritage lay (buff orpingtion, barred rocks, rhode island red....) around 5-6 months. Ornamental like silkies 8-9 months and sometimes longer. All chickens lay at different times due to breed and environmental factors. Keep a side of calcium however to be on the safe side. *So the safe answer is when they are all laying*

*Question 2. * *I don't think highly of Purina but it's not the worst you can feed them*. You could probably find a better feed that is locally made and cost less. This takes homework though. When doing homework, stay away from tractor supply company because we have all gotten burned their once. Try to go to mom and pop feed stores. Truth be told you could get more bag for your buck with a different feed.

*Question 3*. Chickens are not vegans. They are omnivores that love everything bug and seeds. They also need dirt in their diet. Animal protein like fish is probably a better protein.

*Rational to Chicken Vegan Advertising* The current fad of vegan chickens is from the awareness of using bad chicken feeds with bad ingredients. If you feed a good feed in the first place, you don't have to worry. The egg industry tries to get away with as much as possible when it comes to cutting corners and they tried this with the cheapest ingredients you can think of. This all comes with a cost and the corners they were cutting to get this animal protein was pretty bad. Good feeds don't cut these corners. And these vegan chicken remind me of the futurama vegan lion.

*Additive note* Chickens love scraps too and there are a lot of safe things you can feed them. However, I would avoid this because it leads to fat unproductive chickens if overfed. It's like overfed kids, it only leads to one thing


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

I have no mill close to me......... So any brand suggestions??????? Something I can use before I find a good mill feed? And If i find a mill, what protein should it have? (16%-20% right????)......... Can I keep them on Nutrena until I find them a good local feed? I use that as a chick starter now....... They do pretty good with it. 


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

I know Purina is trash for my goats....... I didnt know about the chickens though......... 


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

I use the chick starter from my local co-op for all my chickens regardless of sex or age (the calcium levels in lay feed can cause severe medical issues in rooster or non-laying hens). It is an all vegetable feed, which I am not pleased with but I have very few options here and none are animal protein based. 

That being said, I supplement with animal protein (raw and cooked meat scraps, as well as quality cat food daily during winter months when they can't hunt) and free range my birds pretty much from sun up to sun down when there is no snow. I can't tell you which feed to buy but asking the maker if the protein is animal or plant based is the easiest way to fine out if you are unsure.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Are you vegetarian? If not, don't you eat dead animals? Not being sarcastic here, just pointing out that there is no difference between us eating dead animals and animals that also eat dead animals. Like our dogs, cats, and yes chickens. Wait until you see the craziness that happens when one catches a mouse. 

As pointed out a couple of time already, you want fresh. The freshest you can get. Its also important to know that it is stored properly. Feed can go bad quickly if not stored properly. 

And I'm going to argue that they do not have to be on layer. I don't use it, never have. I have free choice calcium out for my girls to eat when they need it.


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

robin416 said:


> Are you vegetarian? If not, don't you eat dead animals? Not being sarcastic here, just pointing out that there is no difference between us eating dead animals and animals that also eat dead animals. Like our dogs, cats, and yes chickens. Wait until you see the craziness that happens when one catches a mouse.
> 
> As pointed out a couple of time already, you want fresh. The freshest you can get. Its also important to know that it is stored properly. Feed can go bad quickly if not stored properly.
> 
> And I'm going to argue that they do not have to be on layer. I don't use it, never have. I have free choice calcium out for my girls to eat when they need it.


I just thought they were vegans..... If an omivore diet is better for them.... I will by all means feed it! Thanks for openinig my eyes to this!!!! Oh..... And the feed will be in a steel barrel..... Would that be ok?

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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

CadesLilFarm said:


> I have no mill close to me......... So any brand suggestions??????? Something I can use before I find a good mill feed? And If i find a mill, what protein should it have? (16%-20% right????)......... Can I keep them on Nutrena until I find them a good local feed? I use that as a chick starter now....... They do pretty good with it.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Chicken Forum


Believe me, I get the frustration about the mill, it took me a couple of years to find one.

And I agree with you about the Purina. Someone mentioned getting feed from their co-op. Its a good choice, they hate if they have feed sitting there more than two weeks. Yes, its all veggie but its fresh. And you can supplement like Fiere does.

I've always had mine on 18 to 20%. And FYI, Nutrena is a better feed than Purina.


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

robin416 said:


> Believe me, I get the frustration about the mill, it took me a couple of years to find one.
> 
> And I agree with you about the Purina. Someone mentioned getting feed from their co-op. Its a good choice, they hate if they have feed sitting there more than two weeks. Yes, its all veggie but its fresh. And you can supplement like Fiere does.
> 
> I've always had mine on 18 to 20%. And FYI, Nutrena is a better feed than Purina.


Nutrena IS better than Purina? Cause it is vice versa in the goat world..... But these are chickens! So..... Even if I find an all veggie feed, that is fresh, it is better than Nutrena or Purina??????

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## Jim (Sep 26, 2012)

Cade's, I know of several feeds around that are minimally processed and either organic, or GMO and soy free. We have searched out many, and depending on where ya live, different ones are available. I also seek out ones with animal protein, as I feel that is important. Example, Texas Natural is good and on the lower end of cost, it is soy free and non GMO. BUT, the protein source is peanuts, H and H is soy free, non GMO and uses animal protein, there are some out on the west cost and some up from Montana I have researched, so, if you can tell me what part of the country you are in, I might can share some of my knowledge I have gained. 

I agree with robin too, layer feed is not a requirement, if you have free choice calcium. I also see proteins from 16-19% of the different feed. 


Jim


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

I can try to help you find some. Where do you live? (City and state). It can be hard but It can be worth it. Another short cut is going to the farmer's market and asking around what they use. 

Avoid tractor supply company chicken stuff in general. It breaks quickly and doesn't work as intended.

I know a lot of good ones in texas. I know of a one in Colorado and there are others.


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

Jim said:


> Cade's, I know of several feeds around that are minimally processed and either organic, or GMO and soy free. We have searched out many, and depending on where ya live, different ones are available. I also seek out ones with animal protein, as I feel that is important. Example, Texas Natural is good and on the lower end of cost, it is soy free and non GMO. BUT, the protein source is peanuts, H and H is soy free, non GMO and uses animal protein, there are some out on the west cost and some up from Montana I have researched, so, if you can tell me what part of the country you are in, I might can share some of my knowledge I have gained.
> 
> I agree with robin too, layer feed is not a requirement, if you have free choice calcium. I also see proteins from 16-19% of the different feed.
> 
> Jim


 I am not a freak about processed...... But I just dont want soy..... So.... Search feeds with animal protein???

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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Jim is right, what is available to you is very regional. It got even worse with the financial crush and the cost of shipping. If you don't want your location known, PM Jim and tell him. He might relieve you of your concerns for the kind of feed you're looking for. 

Ask your co-op, your Mom & Pop feed store. 

See, you bought in to that all veggie diet ads for chicken too. Those ads drive me nuts and because of it, I will not buy their products.


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## Jim (Sep 26, 2012)

I like hellofromTexas idea as well! But even if you want soy free, I think knowing the part of the country you are in can help us point you in the right direction, if we know your area? Looks like we have Texas, north Florida, Montana, west coast, and maybe some others covered, just not sure if any of those help. Then there is Azure as well. 


Jim


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## Jim (Sep 26, 2012)

robin416 said:


> Jim is right, what is available to you is very regional. It got even worse with the financial crush and the cost of shipping. If you don't want your location known, PM Jim and tell him. He might relieve you of your concerns for the kind of feed you're looking for.
> 
> Ask your co-op, your Mom & Pop feed store.
> 
> See, you bought in to that all veggie diet ads for chicken too. Those ads drive me nuts and because of it, I will not buy their products.


I have got to find one of those adds for our page! Also, mom and pops is right. The whole reason we became a "feed store" was to get in bulk what we wanted for our flock, and sell off the rest to like minded people, we have minimal markup, but enough to cover our gas to go and pick it up.

Jim


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

Jim's a nice guy and helped me find my feed. I feed hugelland which is a non gmo feed.

The best chicken feeds are very regional. So the state makes a difference and sometimes even city. The difference is mostly price. A nice feed from Colorado can cost $50 in Texas while a more local one cost $30. I'm sure it's reverse in Colorado. 

I prefer mom and pop stores. When you go to a feed store, make sure it is reasonably clean like a pet store.


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## Jim (Sep 26, 2012)

Just so y'all know, Cade's did send me a PM and I hope I was a little helpful. 


Jim


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Good. This feed thing can be intimidating, especially when we have to rely on what is available in our backyards.


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

I have looked at every YellowPaper page for my area....... I can find NO mill that mixes anything..... There is one mill that buys Purina and sells.... But they dont mix anything...... And there is one other mill that grinds corn........ And one that is out of buisness. Any options here???? 


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## Jim (Sep 26, 2012)

I would guess the other option that was mentioned, go to a local farmers market, or contact a co-op, check Craigslist. Find other producers in your area and find out what they use. 


Jim


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I used Nutrena Game bird for years. The down side is that its 24/26% protein. What I did do was mix it with a 16% feed. 

The avoidance of soy is going to be a problem since they all jumped on that band wagon to save on costs.


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

Usda organic feed data base

This link will help find a organic feed state by state

I don't know about non gmo but if the feed store has organic they probably will have the other. If you go to the feed's website they will usually have locate our feed here section.

This link has non gmo to narrow the search by state
Non Gmo Database

The list are not completely comprehensive. but it gets you started

This list is of possible feed stores that could help Organic feed store list. I don't like the group but they have good articles. I am not organic but the feeds stores that carry it typically carry other good feeds.


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## MelTx (Jan 28, 2014)

I don't know if this will help, but I just found this site and they have a lot of dealers here in Texas and Louisianna and they ship as well. Blended and milled in Texas.

Non-Soy Non-GMO http://www.texasnaturalfeeds.com/

*protein is peanut based however


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## Jim (Sep 26, 2012)

hellofromtexas said:


> Usda organic feed data base
> 
> This link will help find a organic feed state by state
> 
> ...


Great links ya found! As far as organic, if it is Certified Organic, it cannot contain any GMO. 

Jim


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## CadesLilFarm (Mar 4, 2014)

I do not care about GMO, or organic, I just want no soy ;-) 


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

non gmo is your best bet to get rid of soy. I don't care about that either but those are the ones that typically go without soy or at the very least it doesn't have the bad side effects. 

The reason is non gmo soy is hard to find. Therefore, organic and non gmo feeds avoid it.

I'm not saying go organic, I'm saying those feed stores may carry more soy free foods to appeal to all customers at the same price your paying now.

Plus the good ones lead to more egg production and faster growth.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

I like soy at 37% protein it is hard to beat.
When i use Purina vs Nutrena the shells are a little thinner and the eggs weigh less.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Really. I'm feeding feather fixer right now and have no compaints, and better laying.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Yep the few times i bought Layena when it was on sale i noticed the eggs had a little thinner shells and the eggs tended to weigh a little less.


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

I'm having great results with the game bird feed. The shells are nice and firm. I've got oyster shell out to make up the need for calcium.


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## farmer_dude48 (Oct 10, 2015)

I have metal barrels with the resealable lid . Will it be ok to store feed in???


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

Sure, Farmer dude! I use metal trash cans for mine and put a makeshift "leanto" roof over them . As long as it keeps the critters and water out they'll work fine. The roof thing isn't ncessary except to keep the chickens and their droppings off.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Patty, I keep my feed in metal trash cans too. And they're under a carport, and out of the sun. I have also lined the cans with one of those contractor bags.


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