# Scaly leg and Sour crop ?



## kitarna (Jul 23, 2012)

I have a miniature Rhode Island Red that is not very well and when trying to reasearch how to help her I am completely confused.

I currently have 4 chickens which live in my mother in laws garden due to an awkward house move. Anyway she looks after their daily care and called to say Bunty was not eating and had diarrhea. When I got there she was lethargic and not running around, had poo all down her feathers from her bum and her legs were horrendous with lifted scales. I took Bunty home with me immediately and put her in my spare dog crate.
(We treated a scaly leg mite problem with the group a few months back and I thought everyone was fine - obviously not.)
The rest of the chickens look fine and normal.

Saturday night Symptoms: 
Lethargic, Puffed up, didn't want to walk anywhere, not interested in food or drink, seriously lost weight, watery diarrhea.
Checked her over and cleaned her up a bit then let her rest. 

Sunday: 
Managed to get her to eat warm porridge with mealworms, and cucumber. Although she didn't eat much, she seemed more alert.
Cleaned her feet and legs up and smothered with scaly leg cream.
Realised that her crop was very large and squishy.

Today: She likes cucumber but only picks at other food.
Syringe fed olive oil and water and massaged crop during day.

I have tried to research what to do next but i'm completely confused. 
I have bought apple cider vinegar, red wine and natural probiotic yoghurt but now im reading conflicting advice over whether acidic things are good or bad.

I am only assuming she still has leg mites from the state of her legs, and sour crop from the squishyness and reluctance to eat.

Sorry about the long post but not sure whats safe to try?


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

My first thought is to worm her, and start treating for coccidiosis. There is not really any age limit and you don't need to see blood. I would also take her chicken feed and add warm water and make a mush. I'm not one to get real crazy with food. The mush is looked at as a treat. Yogurt is good. I would not give straight olive oil. And her crop should be fine unless it's rock hard and does not go down overnight. Worm her twice, 10 days apart.

You can give probiotics after a course of antibiotics. I would not otherwise. I would also not be giving vinegar or garlic or DE. Keep it simple. 

With the legs, you can put Vaseline on them. Put it on going against the scales.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

If she has sour crop massaging is not necessary. Messaging is for when the crop is blocked.

I agree with Sem about holding off on the olive oil. If it's sour crop she will need something like Nystatin or Sulmet to help her get over the issue.

What country are you in? I know that the UK has willing vets that will treat chickens.


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## kitarna (Jul 23, 2012)

Update:
Crop went down massively overnight this time. Still something in it but doesn't feel rock hard. Fed her this morning 2 inchs of cucumber cut in half with yeo valley natural yoghurt on top. She had a good go at it.

Really worried about her weight, don't want her to starve while i'm trying to fix her! I will try her on the mash of pellets - she seems to like warm food.

I'll keep on with the medicated leg cream, I also have a spray but the cream seems to work better and stay on longer. (It's Johnsons poultry scaly cream - hope this is ok)

Yes I am in the UK and had an amazing Vet, until he retired. The new one isn't so good. I didn't rush her to the vet because I seriously thought she would be dead by now. 

I'll get some more worming treatment and research coccidiosis (didn't realise it could still be cocc)

Thanks for help so far,


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Cocci is always present. Sometimes something can let it multiply out of control. Low Immune system, worm damage, another pre-existing bacteria. 

Hopefully Casportpony will see this and give her thoughts.


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## kitarna (Jul 23, 2012)

Wednesday Update:

No real change in her condition, Cocci medication arrives tomorrow.

In the meantime I am using a syringe to give water as she won't drink.
The only food she'll eat is cucumber and i'm still really worried about her weight. She seems to be really weak.

Any suggestions on what food is best to help her gain/maintain weight?
She only has a few mouthfuls of whatever i offer.

Thanks


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Do you have hand rearing formula available for cage birds? Do you also have available an additive that is a totally balanced with vitamins and minerals for chickens? 

If you have that available you can mix the two and know that she's getting what she needs to support life. The formula is pretty tasty to them and if the bird has not declined too far are pretty willing to scarf it down. If it is, it can be mixed loose enough to dispense to her with a syringe or dropper.

Will a vet do a fecal without having to take her in? If they will, gather a couple of droppings as clean as possible and have them test it for parasites, cocci included. 

I don't know if Sem mentioned it but when a bird is down, no matter the age, cocci can become a serious problem.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Robin, I agree. I have treated for cocci in older birds, and had 3 necropsies come back with cocci being part of the problem. That and e. coli. And enteritis.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

I tend to use the shotgun approach when I can't consult with a vet, so that means that they get treated for coccidiosis, worms and bacteria all at the same time. Of course I also provide supportive care which basically involves getting them warm and hydrated. Sick birds are almost always hypothermic and dehydrated, so that it what I correct first, then I medicate. Let me know if you want to learn more about this method.


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## kitarna (Jul 23, 2012)

Sunday update:

Thanks for your input Casportpony. I have been keeping her inside so the temperature is around 18 degrees ish on average. 
The Coxoid arrived Thursday. I have been adding it to her water and then syringe feeding the water 3 times a day (only about 50ml). 
She does seem a little more feisty today and a little more interested in food. I put her outside on the lawn for 5 minutes today - she walked around a bit then went to sleep!

Questions!
1. Is she getting enough water? she doesn't drink on her own and the coxoid is in the water.
2. Is there any other effective wormer I can give directly, I have more Flubenvet on it's way but it's mixed with pellets that she won't eat even if its mashed and warm!
3. Casportpony, you mentioned treating for bacteria, is this by antibiotics?

Thanks again for your help guys x


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## kitarna (Jul 23, 2012)

*So, overnight Bunty has turned into a penguin!!!!*

When I checked her over last night I could feel a lump between her legs.. thought maybe she's decided to lay an egg??

This morning she was stood bolt upright with her eyes closed and won't eat.

I did an internal exam but couldn't directly feel the egg - felt like it was in there but maybe not in the right place yet.

Gave her a hot bath which she fell asleep in.
Blow dryed her and put her back in her crate.

Now she's asleep upright again and still will not touch any food.

I am assuming it's an egg because that is what it feels like... but now i'm thinking she could be egg bound, or laid internally

Any suggestions what to do next????


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Certainly sounds like egg binding. Add calcium and D3 to whatever you can get in to her. The calcium boosts the muscles that move the egg along and the D3 helps more completely absorb the calcium. The warm bath is good. Keeping her quiet and in a quiet area might help.


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## kitarna (Jul 23, 2012)

robin416 said:


> Certainly sounds like egg binding. Add calcium and D3 to whatever you can get in to her. The calcium boosts the muscles that move the egg along and the D3 helps more completely absorb the calcium. The warm bath is good. Keeping her quiet and in a quiet area might help.


Ok, so I have found some D3 - my husband takes it so I have liquid capsules - dosage per capsule says 1,000 IU as cholecalciferol.
Calcium I don't have but i'm going out now to find some.
Also do not have any hand rearing formula as you suggested so i'll see what else i can find.
I rely on online ordering for most specialist things unfortunately. 

Bunty is currently in my spare room so nice and quiet there.


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## kitarna (Jul 23, 2012)

I found calcium, which I have added to her water then given to her by syringe. The D3 i managed to get out the capsules and mixed with some bird food... but she has only eaten a small amount of that.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

You can only do what you can do. You can try mixing the D and calcium together in a slurry to give to her by either syringe (without a needle) or eye droppers.

From what I understand vets have an injection that can help move things along.


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## kitarna (Jul 23, 2012)

Bunty the Penguin...


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Poor girl. If you can feel anything there you can try gentle pressure to see if it will begin to move. Gentle because you really don't want to rupture the egg.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

This is where an egg would be:









If you can't feel it in 1" or less, I doubt it's egg binding.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)




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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)




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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

To check for egg, put on glove, lube finger with water based lube, very gently insert finger and check for egg.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

X2. By her stance I would say egg is stuck.


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## kitarna (Jul 23, 2012)

Thanks guys, I did feel inside this morning, I could feel where the egg was but I couldn't touch it directly. I don't know if that means I couldn't get in to her uterus? Only went in about an inch because I didn't want to hurt her.
I will try again tomorrow morning.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

When I check mine I don't actually touch the shell, there is always a layer of tissue between m finger and the egg. If she is egg bound, she needs fluids and calcium. 

Is she still pooping?

-Kathy


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## kitarna (Jul 23, 2012)

Unfortunately Bunty died overnight. 

I wanted to do my own post-mortem to see what happened as her symptoms seemed to change over the week.

She had egg yolk peritonitis. She was filled with different sized egg yolk masses.. the one I could feel was wrapped round her intestines.

I took some pictures and would appreciate it if someone with more knowledge than me could look over them and see if you spot anything else.
I wasn't sure if I should post them here because of their graphic nature???

At least I know I couldn't have done much more for her and her last days were warm, peaceful and comfy.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I am really sorry. Hens are so prone to it. You are very brave to find out what went wrong. With egg peritonitis, there was nothing you could do. No preventative items. Nothing.
You did your best. You can't do better than that.

I've only had one have one with an impacted egg. It appeared that the egg got stuck to the walls. I lubed a finger and it was far enough in where I could put my whole finger in and reach the middle of the egg. I only had olive oil. Every 15 minutes I would lube a finger and keep circling the egg slowly using the oil to help unstick the egg a little at a time. When I got the skin unstuck from the egg midway, she passed it. Basically I let the oil unstick it with a bit of softly using a bit of pressure to unstick the egg where the oil loosened it. Another 2 I lost to egg peritonitis, and those were out of my hands.


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## kitarna (Jul 23, 2012)

seminolewind said:


> I am really sorry. Hens are so prone to it. You are very brave to find out what went wrong. With egg peritonitis, there was nothing you could do. No preventative items. Nothing.
> You did your best. You can't do better than that.


Thanks for everyones help, it really made a difference to have people to talk to x

(Have posted pictures in a new thread with warning of graphic content)


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Sorry for your loss. {{{{{hugs}}}}}


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