# still having problems



## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

I am about to put up the runs, My plan is to have a 15x15 run which will be broken into 2 sides. One side will be for the older hens the other side which will be smaller will be for the younger birds, or any momma and babies.
As a bunch of you know I have been struggling with birds that were in real poor health. While a few have made big moves in health, I am certainly not getting the eggs I should be getting.
I could be loosing eggs to hidden nests.. which is something I have encountered in the past, however I am not finding them. Keeping the flock locked up in a run will cease that and I will be able to get a more accurate count of eggs as they will not be able to lay anywhere else. 
visually I am seeing a lot of normal chicken behaivor. they all eat, are eager onto and scraps or scratch I toss out. They all are out free ranging, eating what bugs wander into the yard along with whatever else they pick out of the yard. 
I am still seeing lots of runny butts, lots of loose to full diarhea, and the hens with the gleat looked better for a week or so but now seem to be looking like they did. 
Several of the hens are missing their tail feathers still, possibly from other birds or from themselfs.. not sure there, but I did check for mites... just the usual fowl mite I see in low numbers, but because I saw them I am going to dust the coop/birds again. 
I noticed when I was cleaning out the coop that held the meaties and now is holding some of the pullets as they come to age that there were several bloody poos... I counted 5 or 6 poos that were bloody.. they were all older, so I assume either the issue fixed itself or the offending bird got the butcher block, but that lead me to wonder if I couldnt have a deeper issue going on with the birds. 
I work a lot in the summers, and tend to not have that much time to sit and observe the flock this year, so I am hoping some of you may give me a bit of insight based on the small stuff I can tell you.
I am going to get some yeast cream and treat the gleat this evening, Taking them from the perches several hours later for the sevin5 dusting.
I have checked a good number of poo in the yard and on the deck, I do not see any worms, and I did treat them for worms when they first got here, so im ruling that out as an issue..
The birds were all from mcmurray and according to the previous owner just over a year old, I believe. Its time to either get them fixed up or turn them into soup.. if they are not providing eggs.. its no longer worth my time to keep them around. 
At this point I am open to medication both natural or otherwise... I would like to either see these birds get better or get gone.
I forgot to mention that I do also have a 3rd even smaller coop and run which I have set up for quarantine or as a hospital .. once the run is complete I will be moving a few of the least laying birds into these quarters so keep a closer eye on them.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Lock them in the coop till at least lunch everyday, preferably locked in completely for 3-5 days if you've got no run up yet. That might make some new eggs appear if you have any hens hiding them.

Vent Gleet can be heinous. It causes a lot of secondary infection and tends to reoccur if allowed to get bad. 
That being said, if these hens were in rough shape for a long time it's going to take them a long time to get back to themselves.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Any chance you can collect some of the cleanest samples and have a vet look at them under a scope? They might be able to identify something that shouldn't be there.

Have there been a big temp swings, that will get them knocked off balance pretty quickly. I know you're in the clouds but they are discussing abnormally high temps out your way. Can't remember exactly where all they were talking about.

You can try pro bios for chickens. I'm not sure how I feel about those yet. 

And then there are hens that are just wrong, stay wrong and never seem to have a balanced GI tract. I had one of those and with a white bird it can get pretty nasty looking. Pro bios would have her looking better for a while but when I stopped giving them to her she went right back to the same mess.

If they are laying outdoors then you could have some critter helping themselves to the eggs. Crows used to hang at my place to steal Guinea eggs. They would even fly in to the outside pen to snatch eggs laid there. 

Are you absolutely certain they are not molting? That business about only molting in the Fall/Winter is not true. My birds molt whenever. One of my Hamburgs is molting now, King just got over a molt from last month. It does seem most molt during that Fall/Winter time but it is not written in stone that it is the only time.


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

as far as the hens missing tail feathers.. yes.. if it was molting I would see other areas missing by now.. not just the tail.. and only the tail for weeks.
temps have stayed at 70 during the day, 50 at night with showers at about 4pm til 6 or 7.... pretty much be this way all summer too...
They spent 4 days locked in the hen house to train them to go into that house, unless one of them is an egg eater... the numbers stayed at about 4 eggs a day, with 15 hens.... thats pretty pittiful. 
being that the pullets I have are still a few months from laying, I would like to give them one more go... if egg counts were even a few eggs more a day I would not hesitate to cull the more ill birds..


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

well the girlfriend said we can jump on the run, so thats going to be done or at least mostly done by this evening. I will try to take some pictures... though I am terrible at documentation. The run will be like my previous fort knox, built with chicken wire dug into the ground. I will be using pine poles for the posts. I will be raising the hen house 3 feet and moving it over a few feet. This will allow it so partially sit in a tree, its unused space and will serve these birds much better, plus it will be easier for me to fence and clean when needed. 
only pictures will explain this idea. the plan is to have an area beneath the coop for the birds to hang out in, plus the run space.. thus, maximum floor space both winter and summer. being that the run will be secured I will feel safer leaving the coop open and those birds will have 24/7 access to the run. 
Right as I get the first rabbit tunnel working properly I dive into the next project.. this is well needed as we are all tired of the chicken poo on the deck.. haha. Being able to control when the birds are allowed on the yard will be better for everyone involved. It will allow me a better count on laid eggs as well as health. 
My batch of feed is about done fermenting from after my trip, so the birds will be going back on that tomorrow as well as the flock raiser. Here is to moving forward...always and often


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

I wonder if they're not older than what you were told as well.

It's very noble to rescue a flock and try to get it back to where it should be health wise. It is a lot of effort and usually doesn't pan out, unfortunately. Sometimes it really does and some birds bounce back but others just never do. I give 3 months and then cull, personally. I just can't be bothered trying to fix something that keeps breaking.


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

a few of the birds did bounce back, especially when on the FF. but at this stage its hardly worth feeding 20+ chickens for a few eggs a day.. I will be coming up on the 3rd month here... so by your timeline as well as mine its either lay eggs or get stewed


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

The way I always saw it was that I gave them a good home, let them experience good health and happiness, and if it came to it, the humane death was just as earned. Better than eventually dying of infection and malnutrition imo.

I does suck. I paid A LOT of money for a very crappy (yet workable) breeding flock of polish. It became a struggle for me and the birds just weren't getting better. With winter coming it wasn't feasible anymore and I culled them all. Probably the last breeding flock of buff laced in the Atlantic provinces. Sad really, but I couldn't save them and I wouldn't let them leave the property in that state.


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## powderhogg01 (Jun 4, 2013)

I am not afraid to admit the fact that these chickens are hatchery stock, likely not the best at that. I have a fresh line just waiting for the first eggs, once that starts I will be culling out the birds that do not lay. I will likely use the food coloring trick to be able to tell for sure who is laying what.
as for fixing the vent gleat. I gave the offending hens a solid bath, then epsom salt saok for 30, followed by a solid rinsing in clean warm water. I then washed in proviodine, then a short while later washed again in clean water. That had them clean and clear for a day or two then it started again.. so now I will repeat the bathing plan but this time im going to use a cream.. curious what is most effective. 
If im not mistaken the FF has a lot of probiotics in it.. so im going to bypass giving the birds that for now.. any other help woul dbe greatly appreciated.. I am ready to see some fluffy butts around.. not yucky ones


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

OK, I'm reading a study regarding probios.

From what I read before regarding FF what forms is LAB, lactic acid bacteria. In studies it's shown that the major probios found in the human gut are Bifidobacteria and lactobacilli. Lactobacilli would be the LAB. The missing component is the Bifidobacteria. There are several strains of Bifodo but the study did not identify which strain they used.

The combination of those two probios in decent numbers protects the GI tract from some diseases and the effects of antibiotic treatment.

The thing missing from the FF is the Bifidobacteria. Would adding that to the FF do what you're looking for? Maybe. I take Bifido for IBS since studies has shown it does have benefit for people who suffer with IBS-C. And it appears to work even when taking drugs that knock my GI tract off.

You haven't said whether the girls in question have a pretty unpleasant smell. The over growth of yeast comes with a fowl odor. So, you might be attempting to treat something that doesn't exist. If it is a yeast infection there are can be different forms a yeast involved so without a lab test it's a shot in the dark.

If these girls are suffering from a lack of good bacteria in their guts because of their poor condition is really the question.

This is what I used for the one girl who was never right except when receiving this: https://www.purelypoultry.com/probios-dispersible-powder-p-1051.html It makes me wonder if my girl also needed the Bifido.

Thing to be aware of that once probios have moisture added to them they begin to lose potency pretty rapidly.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

I did the Epsom salt soak and put a combination of vagisil and polysporin on the Gleet birds I had here. Cleared them up decently. They were also on a round of antibiotics which is good for the secondary infections but can make the ph levels in the vent worse so it's a bit of a slipper slope sometimes lol.


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