# Free Range❔



## Itsacutefuzzball (Mar 16, 2013)

If I have, say, four hawks in my area, should I ever let my chickens free range?


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## birdguy (Jan 15, 2013)

Itsacutefuzzball said:


> If I have, say, four hawks in my area, should I ever let my chickens free range?


Get some Guineas my next birds to buy  i heard they're very alert


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## Itsacutefuzzball (Mar 16, 2013)

birdguy said:


> Get some Guineas my next birds to buy  i heard they're very alert


I think I forgot to mention I'm in the city, at my "limit" already. But thank you.


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## Itsacutefuzzball (Mar 16, 2013)

Help?
If I have, say, four hawks in my area, should I ever let my chickens free range?


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## ThreeJ (Jun 28, 2012)

I let mine free range all the time, and have only lost one to a hawk. Hawks come and go maybe wait untill there not around. I worry more about raccoons at night.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

There are a lot of factors to free ranging that will insure good safety from aerial preds and, unless you have them in place, I don't recommend anyone free range. 

Sure enough, folks that do lose some birds because of not properly preparing, will then be a life time proponent of NOT free ranging and telling everyone else how cruel and negligent it is to do so.


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## Itsacutefuzzball (Mar 16, 2013)

Bee said:


> There are a lot of factors to free ranging that will insure good safety from aerial preds and, unless you have them in place, I don't recommend anyone free range.
> 
> Sure enough, folks that do lose some birds because of not properly preparing, will then be a life time proponent of NOT free ranging and telling everyone else how cruel and negligent it is to do so.


So, how do you do it?


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

You really need the right breeds/birds, the right rooster or dominant hen, the right place, the right dog, the right perimeter fencing(if in town), the right hide outs/duck and cover places and the right attitude.

*Right breeds/birds*~birds that are docile, slow moving, overly fat, used to being picked up in the daytime hours and have no quick reactions to alarm calls and aerial danger flying overhead are just sitting ducks for hawks.

Silkies, overfed BOs, Polish (they can't see overhead as well) or any other birds with a slow, friendly, docile manner that are used to shadows overhead(humans) stooping over them and picking them up. All they will do is duck down and freeze, instead of run for cover as they should be doing. You'll want flighty birds that instinctively move away from any and all potential predators..including you.

*Right rooster or flock master(can be a hen)*~ A good rooster will sound the alarm before you even see the threat and will have trained his flock to listen and act on it. He's worth his weight in gold when it comes to free range. Most will not fight a dog or other 4 legged predator, but the rare few will stand off a hawk, challenge a hawk or sacrifice himself for the flock. Mostly they will get the flock to shelter when a pred is in the area. A dominant hen can take over this role if she's the right sort.

*Right place~* Areas that have plenty of trees, fence rows, shelters, shrubs, etc. where a bird can run and duck under to avoid the stoop of a hawk.

*Right dog~ *A dog that lives outdoors all the time, is safe around the birds and sees them as living in his territory, so they are automatically protected from predator threats..even those from the sky. He is watchful all day and night and his constant vigilance lets area preds know this is a risky place for a meal. He doesn't have to cost a lot nor need some high dollar training or have to even be a LGD breed...mine have all been lab mixes that were unwanted by someone else~read FREE~and served years of unfailing, loyal service to the flocks and to the family. Loved companions, good dogs, fierce flock protection and have saved my flocks over and over. I'd never try to even have chickens~be they penned or free range~without a good dog to watch over them when I am gone all day and sleeping at night. They are indispensable to having livestock on your land....and that's just what chickens are.

*Right fence~ *The right fence can and will slow down most canine preds from doing a quick grab and snatch of your birds and also keep your birds contained. They don't usually fly over a fence, they fly to the top of a fence and drop down on the other side, so removing any surface that makes for good landing at the top of your fence is imperative~even if you have a 6 ft. high fence. You can string light wire there above the hard top of the fence/gait to discourage the hop up. Chickens, even adult ones, can regularly roost in trees and barn rafters, so a 6 ft. fence does not mean it is going to stop this behavior. Even clipping wing or wings can sometimes not deter a determined escapee.

If you have a good fence and keep your birds contained, if you get a neighbor's dog breaching those defenses, you have a leg to stand on when it comes to the legal aspects. A good looking, cheap and effective way to protect suburban birds from 4 legged preds is a simple electronet poultry fence on a solar charger...you can move it to different areas, you can put it away and use it another day, it lasts up to 10 years with good care, you can place it around your coop and not worry about *****, foxes, possums, etc at night and it will shock the vinegar out of even a black bear...and it will definitely keep the chickens in if you leave it energized.

*Right attitude~ *To free range, one has to accept the risk of possible loss. If done correctly, those losses are very few...I've lost 3 to preds in the last 10 years or more. Two of those are questionable if it was an aerial pred, as they were young and prone to wander off into the woods out of the dog's boundary of defense~we have a local grey fox. I've lost 1 bird at night because she roosted in the barn loft where the dogs could not defend her and got picked off by an owl. All of these were acceptable to me because these birds didn't heed the dangers of leaving the flock and the flock protections that are always available. In other words, they were too dumb to live and so they didn't get to do so.

Another important attitude to have is that you are going to do everything possible to avoid predation, not just turn out your chickens to the grass with a kiss for luck~ then cry to all and sundry when it goes wrong, telling anyone who free ranges they are putting their birds at risk and are negligent. (This happens more than you could possibly know...people try it once, the wrong way, and then announce it can't be done safely.)

Free ranging can be done and done well for many years if you have the right system in place that insures your birds are just as safe as they are in a coop and run...and many, many stories of predation start right there~in a coop and run~so these are not fail proof places to keep chickens.

There really is no such thing as a Ft. Knox coop unless it is, indeed, in the middle of a Ft. Knox gold vault. A black bear or a determined pack of dogs can show you in about 5 min. how safe your coop and runs really are. Chickens in a coop and run are like fish in a barrel to predators and there is no possible escape there...at least out on free range they have a chance to run, fly, duck and cover and you may not lose all your birds in one devastating attack .

Hope this helps!


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

sounds like great info Bee
what kinds of birds have you had in your flock 
& what kind do you have at the moment?

we have a 1/2 dozen buff orpingtons & that # of pullets that we hatched out who are just about to start laying
all of them are covered by a Greenfire Farms english lemon cuckoo rooster (he was free on craiglsist)
we also have a few silkies in their own stall & over in another building we have imported english orpingtons (blue,black,& splash)

muscovy duck eggs in the bator at the moment, we will see soon how many hatch out up under our broody buff orpington hen

4 bronze turkey babies in the bathroom bator rounds out our little flock



piglett


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

I've had a laundry list of breeds over the past 37 years but I've found a few that I'd never have again, though I believe the same birds out of heritage stock may have different qualities than the hatchery sourced birds I've had. It's easier to list the ones that don't free range well.... 

BOs are much different than they were when I was young, so they are on my no no list of free rangers or good layers. They tend to overeat, which hinders laying proficiency, are too docile, don't range out from the coop as far as other breeds and are poor foragers on pasture.... and sitting ducks for preds. 

I did a processing demonstration this past weekend and got to show those in attendance the difference between the BOs and a normal DP breed of chicken. The evidence was overwhelming and obvious and consistent with my own experiences with the breed whenever they happen to land in my flocks. Both birds were prolapsed due to the huge desposits of fat around their oviduct/vent and their gizzards were completely encased in a layer of fat that ran the entire length of the abdomen. Under the feathers and huge fat layer under the skin there was very little meat to show. We processed 21 CX that day that were 13-15 lb live weight and not a one of them had the fat on them, or inside, them that those BO hens had.

Put a fat, slow guy and a lean, fit guy out in the middle of a field and see who can run to the shelter of the trees the quickest....clue..it won't be the big guy. You can have a big breed on free range as long as the bulk of that "big" is muscle and not fat. 

All birds butchered that day had been free ranged and the CX beat the BOs hands down for healthy bodies. The BOs had livers that were fatty and dissolved in our hands and they had enlarged hearts. 

Basically...any breed that tends to overeat and cannot move their feet, do not range out from the coop and aren't flighty enough to avoid predators is a bad choice. If they make good pets, it's likely they won't make good free ranged birds. There is the exception to every rule, of course and YMMV, but they are just the exception, IME. 

I've never had silkies but have read over and over what happens when folks put them on free range and it ain't pretty. They cannot fly, nor can they run fast, not to mention they have a fur hat that obscures their view. They did not descend from generations of heritage breed birds that once survived on pasture and woodland...they are ideal for penned existence because they are not suited to live out in the open. They don't range out far from the coop, so they decimate the available forage in the immediate area, which doesn't have a chance to replenish before it is preyed upon again. Successful free range takes place away from the coop and run or soon there is nothing to forage there. 

I've never had Polish but reports about their free range abilities revolve around their obstructed view overhead...other than that, I'm thinking they wouldn't be half bad on pasture. 

Red Stars/black stars/production breeds are also not stellar on free range, though the production blacks do better than the reds. They aren't the worst, but they aren't the best either. 

YMMV


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

Bee said:


> I've had a laundry list of breeds over the past 37 years but I've found a few that I'd never have again, though I believe the same birds out of heritage stock may have different qualities than the hatchery sourced birds I've had. It's easier to list the ones that don't free range well....
> 
> BOs are much different than they were when I was young, so they are on my no no list of free rangers or good layers. They tend to overeat, which hinders laying proficiency, are too docile, don't range out from the coop as far as other breeds and are poor foragers on pasture.... and sitting ducks for preds.
> 
> ...


*you must be talking about hatchery buff orpingtons.....?*
*we have had great luck with ours free-ranging*

*at 12 weeks old weeks old we turned them loose*
*at 1st they stayed near the coop *
*any time so much as a blue-J made a noise the biggest cockerel would sound the alarm & they would all run for cover.*
*as the weeks went on we noticed something*
*we only gave them breakfast & dinner once they started free-ranging*
*the BO's would be out scratching & digging all over hell & back* 
*the RiR's that we had in with them would stand next to the feeder till almost noon time even though it had been empty for hours. *
*the RiR's learned after a while where the good stuff was*
*then i noticed that once i let the flock out for the day the feeder could still have food in it & all of them would leave it & go for grass,bugs, & worms.*

*we have processes plenty of buffs now at this point & the only the ones that were given scratch to help them through the winter had any amount of fat.the rest were all good lean meat*
*but these are not hatchery stock *
*the hens came from 2 different farms over in Maine*
*our pullets are their daughters. *

*the only other thing i can think of is diet*
*we use Blue Seal extra egg pellets, never had a problem with their products. *

*i can't for the life of me figure out how you could be having such problem with the same breed that i just love.*
*clearly yours & mine are way different*

*our silkies stay in their stall & i can't say they really mind*
*i would never let them free range*
*they would be all done for in 1 day *

*well time for work Bee *
*thanks for your input*

*piglett*

*PS: what state are you in?*
*we are in new hampshire *


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

WV. Yep, I've had different reports from those who have heritage stock BOs and my granny's old BOs were excellent flock birds, but the current form of BOs that the hatcheries turn out are for the pet market that is growing in leaps and bounds, so they usually breed for traits that yield the money...and the money in BOs right now is in the pet market. 

Just like the RIRs from the hatchery now are different from the old RIRs from long ago...they've been overbred by the hatcheries to produce a bird that is slender, eats a lot, has a bad disposition and burns out on laying while also having a lot of reproductive issues. The old RIR was a heavier, more DP bird that was friendly but active and even went broody, while still laying well for many years~excellent birds. Can't get that outside of heritage lines now.


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## Apyl (Jun 20, 2012)

I have hawks ( and many more predators) I free range . Sure I have lost a couple but it happens. 99% of the time the flock goes for cover when they see the hawks, eagles, falcons, ect.


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## Itsacutefuzzball (Mar 16, 2013)

I've decided to let my chickens free range today. I'll post an update later.


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

Bee said:


> WV. Yep, I've had different reports from those who have heritage stock BOs and my granny's old BOs were excellent flock birds, but the current form of BOs that the hatcheries turn out are for the pet market that is growing in leaps and bounds, so they usually breed for traits that yield the money...and the money in BOs right now is in the pet market.
> 
> Just like the RIRs from the hatchery now are different from the old RIRs from long ago...they've been overbred by the hatcheries to produce a bird that is slender, eats a lot, has a bad disposition and burns out on laying while also having a lot of reproductive issues. The old RIR was a heavier, more DP bird that was friendly but active and even went broody, while still laying well for many years~excellent birds. Can't get that outside of heritage lines now.


sounds like my buffs could being a little extra $ to the rite person looking "farm breed" type pullets.
i am starting a banding program. if a hen goes broody & hatches out even 1 chick all on her own i'll put a white leg band on her. 
as she hatches more batches of chicks i'll keep changing the band to one that is darker in color. my plan is to try to bring back something that is "near" a heritage quality buff orpington.

no room in the coops rite now for RiR's so i guess some other member will have to work on those.

piglett


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## fowlmouthgirls (May 25, 2013)

I have aerial predators and at 6-8 weeks, my girls, of assorted breeds (EE, Austrolorps, BO, Dom and BLRW) all run right back to the coop or hide under the brush that rims the perimeter of my property. They all seem to have the natural instincts chickens are supposed to have.


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

fowlmouthgirls said:


> I have aerial predators and at 6-8 weeks, my girls, of assorted breeds (EE, Austrolorps, BO, Dom and BLRW) all run right back to the coop or hide under the brush that rims the perimeter of my property. They all seem to have the natural instincts chickens are supposed to have.


it would be nice if you could pickup an older rooster to help defend them. but not everyone can have a roo


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## fowlmouthgirls (May 25, 2013)

Cn have a Roo, but I pick up my livestock guardian pup on Sunday! Yay!!! She's on a farm right now, with goats, chickens and horses!


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

fowlmouthgirls said:


> Cn have a Roo, but I pick up my livestock guardian pup on Sunday! Yay!!! She's on a farm right now, with goats, chickens and horses!


 SWEET!
let us know how the dog works for you

piglett


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Remember...the flocks she is now guarding are HER flocks and your flocks are not yet her flocks, so monitor things closely at first. I've heard reports of folks thinking that it would all be the same and found out their working LGD they got from another farm attacked their farm animals straight away. 

Those breeds bond to the flocks, so it may take some time for her to bond to yours. Or not...just expect anything and be ready. Some guidance on your part may help such as showing her the boundaries of the farm, keeping her penned or tied in "her" area the first few days and only let her out when you can accompany her and gauge her reactions to the chooks. 

Some LGDs bond so tight to their flocks that the sheep are sold with the dogs in the price and they accompany their new flock to their new farm. 

Let us know how it goes?


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## fowlmouthgirls (May 25, 2013)

Bee said:


> Remember...the flocks she is now guarding are HER flocks and your flocks are not yet her flocks, so monitor things closely at first. I've heard reports of folks thinking that it would all be the same and found out their working LGD they got from another farm attacked their farm animals straight away.
> 
> Those breeds bond to the flocks, so it may take some time for her to bond to yours. Or not...just expect anything and be ready. Some guidance on your part may help such as showing her the boundaries of the farm, keeping her penned or tied in "her" area the first few days and only let her out when you can accompany her and gauge her reactions to the chooks.
> 
> ...


True Bee, I'm going to very vigilant with her, plus lots of training. I don't believe you should have a large dog like that and leave them to their own devices. She is the Runt of a litter of 8, and a bit of an outcast from the others, so I'm hoping she will blossom in a place of her own! She is almost 9 weeks, so still very young.


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## Itsacutefuzzball (Mar 16, 2013)

*UPDATE* I let my not so little chickens free range today, and they were confused. They pecked around at the rocks, not even noticing a pile of food in the grass. But, they looked like they were having fun, until the hawks started circling around. My little chihuahua helped me herd them back into the coop. No sign of aggression between him and the chooks.

































I had a video, but I can't post it on here... Hmm...


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## Apyl (Jun 20, 2012)

We had a hawk circling yesterday as well. I just leave them be. The flock finds hiding places on their own. Believe me the chickens see the hawks and they watch them. When it looks like a threat they run.


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## fowlmouthgirls (May 25, 2013)

I told Chloe, my 3 yr old, that I was outside watching the chickens because they keep running away! They have started squeezing through my chainlink and going to my neighbors yard, which she doesnt mind, but i want them to stay in my yard!....so She said" , just tell them to sit and stay and lie down." I said they don't listen like dogs do. She says, "well say it in Spanish, UNO dos tres!"


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## fowlmouthgirls (May 25, 2013)

Evie came home yesterday!


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Now THAT is darling! Oh, if they could only stay puppy in appearance and be older dog in action what bliss it would all be! 

Keep us posted on her progress...should be fun and educational. Take lots of pics....love pics!!


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## fowlmouthgirls (May 25, 2013)

Ok just one more, lol


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## fowlmouthgirls (May 25, 2013)

Ok just one more! Lol


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Love that blue eye!


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## Chicka-Js (May 3, 2013)

She is precious !


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