# Help me identity my hen?



## Emeralde (Sep 13, 2020)

Hello! I'm new to the forums.
My sister and I have been stumped by one of my new girls. The woman I bought her from said she was an Asian Black, my sister and I agree she's not.

I thought she was probably a Wyandotte, but changed our minds to thinking she was a Black Copper Maran.
Buuuuuut, she just started laying a few weeks ago and her eggs aren't that nice dark chocolate color BCM are known for. She's a big girl too! Almost as large ad my Australorp rooster.
So, what do you all think she is?
Her name is Phoenix btw


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Sorry I don't have a clue either. I noticed that her legs are a mottled color, she might be a mix.

Love the name.


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## Emeralde (Sep 13, 2020)

It really doesn't matter what she is, she's a sweet girl, beautiful, and her eggs tastes just as delicious.

Its just caused a debate between my sister and I.

Thank you! 


robin416 said:


> Sorry I don't have a clue either. I noticed that her legs are a mottled color, she might be a mix.
> 
> Love the name.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

She reminds me of a painting technique that gets lighter as it gets higher. I'm working on my first coffee so my brain isn't awake. 

She's got the solid gold head and as you move down her body the color begins to fade into black until it's all black. I'm not sure I've ever seen one like that.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Do you know how old Phoenix is?


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## Emeralde (Sep 13, 2020)

Poultry Judge said:


> Do you know how old Phoenix is?


She's 6 ½ months old.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Ombre. Still couldn't remember what is was called even after 2 cups of coffee. I had to do a half dozen searches since it was bugging me.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Very nice bird! Perhaps a BCM mix. If she hasn't gone through an adult molt, which she hasn't, her colors may continue to change a bit.


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## Emeralde (Sep 13, 2020)

robin416 said:


> Ombre. Still couldn't remember what is was called even after 2 cups of coffee. I had to do a half dozen searches since it was bugging me.


She does look ombre. Lol



Poultry Judge said:


> Very nice bird! Perhaps a BCM mix. If she hasn't gone through an adult molt, which she hasn't, her colors may continue to change a bit.


Thanks! She's probably one of my prettiest


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

Hey! You got the twin to my male Asian Black! Lol. Unsure if you've seen some of the pics we have shown, but he had a lot of similar characteristics, including being a GIANT. I'll share for comparison's sake. I love the name you gave your girl, my boy? He's just a 'Quack.' 

























Similar ombré features, he's 31" tall (not stretching) but he's also sweet as can be 99% of the time. He's still a roo, but he's not, all in one. Anyway, we have been amused at his development, seeing as it is NOT what we expected from a (hopeful) Asian black pullet!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I wonder why they call them Asian blacks if they're not all black. It causes confusion on what breed they actually are. 

Will her legs become all slate as she gets older?


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

It looks like her legs will likely stay lighter than his- I can’t remember if you can see in the pics I shared, but he is all slate- except for both middle toes, and only at the very top, just before his claw. It’s amusing, he rly is a pieces-parts guy. So- over explained there- I bet they have both sets of genetics floating around in there still.

And yes, they rly should have tried to standardize them a bit more before naming them as a ‘this’ when they don’t all come out the same! Bc clearly her girl and my boy have similar stuff going on, but they are far from expected looks. No biggie to me either.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I can't see the color variation in his feet. 

OK, this sounds like a study for someone to trace how the Asian blacks came to be. And how long they've been out there.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

robin416 said:


> I can't see the color variation in his feet.
> 
> OK, this sounds like a study for someone to trace how the Asian blacks came to be. And how long they've been out there.


It's another modern U.S. bird, not APA standardized yet but I predict it will be. They have roots in several? ancient Asian breeds such as Langshan. The cross is slightly stockier and less leggy, gamey. They are becoming popular as a dual purpose bird with good temperament suitable for the back yard. I heard they are a hatchery hybrid but can't verify that. Also, because they are popular but not widely available, the strains will be all over the place color-wise and what not until they are standardized. In the meantime, they are apparently good even tempered birds which lay between 200 and 250 eggs per year.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

So, there would be an issue with them breeding true until more time is put into the breed?


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Robin makes an interesting point about "breeding true". First, we have to determine what the standard is going to be and the APA in this country doesn't reach out and say hey breeders what do you want this breed to be? It is a petition driven system and conversely a complaint driven system. So this is the dilemma. U.S. breeds like the Asian Black, (and remember the Amercauna hoopla with the hatcheries, starting with the EEs just for example), are driven by the U.S. hatcheries pretty much, (my opinion). The hatcheries drive the fads or try to take advantage of upcoming fads, (again my opinion). The APA, ABA or EU have nothing to do with standardization until petitioned by a group of folks to do so. That used to require a breeders group to get together and make the petition and then present the birds which they feel the standard of perfection should represent for the new breed. Then there is some back and forth with the APA, ABA or EU and the breeders association before they lock in the agreed standard. Mostly the burden of proof is to demonstrate that it is a distinct new breed, regardless of how the group got there, hybrid etcetera. There are characteristics which must be present in the bird and characteristics which automatically disqualify. Once it is agreed upon it becomes a recognized breed for judging, it can be registered with the judging entities and the International Poultry Association. Clear as mud? The process is actually pretty nuts and bolts. It gets better though, the APA doesn't treat the whole process as religion here in the states, even the Modern Gamefowl folks are fairly tolerant with the judging as evidenced by the way the APA and ABA judge Modern and Antique Games. However it is not treated as such in the European Union with the Gamefowl folks agonizing over the antique strains, (my opinion and experience). For example there are three fellow breeders and myself trying to re-establish the Earl of Derby OEG standard of 1611 for an antique breed that was standardized 409 years ago.


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

Thanks for the more clear explanation- it is hard to find it in layman's terms and to understand just how all that does work! It does make more sense, and hopefully someone will take enough of an interest to take the time and effort to standardize them and get them recognized in the near future.

I will say he's about as docile as they come. He still eats out of our hand and follows 'commands'- I even reached in front of him 3 times on the ramp last night to shove one of the girls back in that was trying to pop out again (at bedtime.)  By the third time I was getting a stern 'look' but he didn't even try to peck at me or anything. Point is, I agree with that assessment of the 'breed' so far! He just had a bad day once, heaven knows we all have those.


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