# Another rir in trouble?



## jewelslette (Mar 1, 2016)

A week ago, I brought home 4 rir from orscheln. Two days later, found one dead in the morning. Today I found another of them off to one side of the flock and after perstering, recognized that it's in trouble. Toes are the right temp, but it's not very active. Carried her around and poked her nose into water which she halfheartedly swallowed, but even after wetting some food for her, she wanted nothing to do with it. She seemed to like being held, so I did that for about 30 min, then offered food again which she again refused. I'm not experienced enough to know what a full gullet feels like, but I do know from saving a cockatiel that her keel is skinny and I detect a clicking, which tells me her respiratory system is in trouble. The tiel I saved required a pressurized, antibiotic nasal lavage which I can't do here for a few reasons. One, this chick is too small, two the idea is to raise antibiotic free chickens are among the reasons. Experts.. Is she doomed? Nobody else is having any signs of trouble. The only other one I lost was also a rir, so perhaps there was a problem at the hatchery? There are two left. I'm wondering if I need to segregate them, but they have all been together a week now, so I'm doubting it would do any good.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

The most common reason is Coccidiosis. And you put Corid or sulfadimethoxine in the water. And give the sick chick some by dribbles or make sure they drink it. If it's cocci, the chick won't last long.

Antibiotic free in the commercial chicken world means they do not get antibiotics as a regular additive in feed. But still get it if they are sick. Antibiotic free sounds nice and natural, but it also means letting sick birds die. 

I like natural foods, but I hate when they die. So I jump at trying to save them. Chickens carry bad bacteria in their intestines, but that's normal. Stress or low immune system allows the bad bacteria to overgrow and kill the bird.


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## jewelslette (Mar 1, 2016)

Thanks sem. I am so grateful to have you here. I'll try to get some corid to have on hand. Is it likely to be spread to the flock? I am beside myself wanting to help her.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

jewelslette said:


> Thanks sem. I am so grateful to have you here. I'll try to get some corid to have on hand. Is it likely to be spread to the flock? I am beside myself wanting to help her.


Cocci are spread via feces. Corid isnt an antibiotic, it is a thiamine blocker. Sulfadimethoxine and sulmet are antibiotics. Dosage for Corid 9.6% liquid solution is 9.5cc's per gallon of water, made fresh daily and given for 5-7 days. Do not mix anything else into the treated water and it must be their sole source of drinking water. Give it to all your chicks to drink. It can be found in the cattle section at a feed store.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I would save time and call around to local stores. I say Corid or Sulfadimethoxine because it gives you another chance of getting one. It is recommended to treat them all at once. In most of my Non broody hatches I've had at least one. Broody hatches I have not.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

dawg53 said:


> Cocci are spread via feces. Corid isnt an antibiotic, it is a thiamine blocker. Sulfadimethoxine and sulmet are antibiotics. Dosage for Corid 9.6% liquid solution is 9.5cc's per gallon of water, made fresh daily and given for 5-7 days. Do not mix anything else into the treated water and it must be their sole source of drinking water. Give it to all your chicks to drink. It can be found in the cattle section at a feed store.


Dry Corid is approx. 1 tsp per gallon. People differ in their dosages for this but I've had luck with this dose aside from dribbling in the sick one's mouth and mixing it in chick feed and making mush and using my finger to schmear it on the side of their beak to get some food and med into them.


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## jewelslette (Mar 1, 2016)

Sadly the little rir didn't make it thru the day yesterday. I'm sad.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

They probably were sick from the store to start with.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

jewelslette said:


> Sadly the little rir didn't make it thru the day yesterday. I'm sad.


Sorry for your loss. I suggest that you dose the remaining two with corid.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

dawg53 said:


> Sorry for your loss. I suggest that you dose the remaining two with corid.


me too, and sorry.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Sorry for your loss.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Please don't shoot me... I hate to bring this up, but since I'm funny about doses, I think I need to.

9.5 ml (cc) of Corid liquid = 912 mg of amprolium. That is the amount that most people use when treating poultry. 

The powder.... Powders are confusing because they can't be calculated the same way as liquids. The mfg claims that one teaspoon of the powder weighs 2.7 grams, but I weighed it recently, as did a friend of mine, and it weighed 3 grams per teaspoon. The math is easy... 20% means that one gram of powder has 200 mg of amprolium.

If the teaspoon weighs 2.7 grams, it's 2.7 x 200 = 540 mg amprolium per teaspoon.
If the teaspoon weighs 3.0 grams, it's 3 x 200 = 600 mg amprolium per teaspoon.

Target dose per gallon is ~912 mg per gallon, so the 912 mg dose is no less than 1.5 teaspoons per gallon.

Hope this wasn't too confusing.


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## jewelslette (Mar 1, 2016)

I got the liquid.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

jewelslette said:


> I got the liquid.


Good for you! Always good to have on hand.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

jewelslette said:


> I got the liquid.


Much easier to work with!


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Regarding the liquid... ignore the directions on the bottle, they're for cattle, and cattle get half what poultry get.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Amprol is the same as Corid, but is labeled for poultry:
http://www.drugs.com/vet/amprol-9-6-oral-solution.html


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

casportpony said:


> Amprol is the same as Corid, but is labeled for poultry:
> http://www.drugs.com/vet/amprol-9-6-oral-solution.html


Corid, Ampromed (labeled for poultry), Amprol 128, are just different brand names. I recently bought Ampromed from a feed store at about half the price of Corid brand.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

MikeA_15 said:


> Corid, Ampromed (labeled for poultry), Amprol 128, are just different brand names. I recently bought Ampromed from a feed store at about half the price of Corid brand.


I noticed that it's less expensive. Of the three, Corid I think is the only one that doesn't have instructions for poultry.


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## power (Jun 20, 2012)

Sometimes people hate to hear it but if you would feed medicated feed you may not have lost a single bird. If you are going to use medication when a bird gets sick why not be preventive and feed medicated feed to begin with and not worry about it. You can quit feeding the medicated feed after they are larger if the medicated feed bothers you.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

power said:


> Sometimes people hate to hear it but if you would feed medicated feed you may not have lost a single bird. If you are going to use medication when a bird gets sick why not be preventive and feed medicated feed to begin with and not worry about it. You can quit feeding the medicated feed after they are larger if the medicated feed bothers you.


I know some people swear by it, but I've always gotten a chick getting cocci on the medicated feed. So I don't buy it anymore. I realized that it's a preventative that works, but is not 100%. So I moved on to vaccinations for cocci. Still ended up with a sick chick. So I just treat the ones that get sick. Same with the Marek's vaccination. Works 90% of the time. I got 10 vaccinated from the hatchery for Marek's, one died a year later from Marek's (confirmed by state lab necropsy).

I think medicated feed is great to use, and it does lessen the chances of cocci, but it's not 100%. I wish it were.


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

I also prefer treating water versus using medicated feed. Medicated feed is recommended by manufacturers for constant use up to 5 months of age. In water I use a preventative dose of Amprolium for 5-7 days, once a month beginning at 2 weeks of age until they are 7 to 9 months. I've had fewer to no losses with my method on various groups of chicks. I always maintain clean drinkers and feed troughs.

I will not use a feed where there is no milling date on the feed tag, I supplement with Probios in water once a week as chicks grow. If a feed store's stock area is dirty or unkept, or does not carry the brand I want, I go elsewhere. My preference is for organic feeds certified CCOF or Oregon Tilth. I do not buy the notion of soy-free feeds replaced with lesser quality fillers such as canola meal, coconut pulp, peas, or excess wheat. Organic soy meal does have a better amino acid profile than those common substitutes. When I supplement animal proteins on occasion, I will use buttermilk/whey in addition to what they get on range. I don't think it is worth using cheap, low quality feed when it comes to my birds.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

power said:


> Sometimes people hate to hear it but if you would feed medicated feed you may not have lost a single bird. If you are going to use medication when a bird gets sick why not be preventive and feed medicated feed to begin with and not worry about it. You can quit feeding the medicated feed after they are larger if the medicated feed bothers you.


The feed store I go to feeds their chicks medicated starter and they still have huge problems with coccidiosis.


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

casportpony said:


> The feed store I go to feeds their chicks medicated starter and they still have huge problems with coccidiosis.


I think the levels of Amprolium are be subject to oxidation in feed mixtures, lessening their efficacy each day. The label of Medicated may be misleading too since several types of medication can be used in livestock feeds. Of course, many of us should know continual use/overuse of medications lead to resistance most of the time.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

casportpony said:


> The feed store I go to feeds their chicks medicated starter and they still have huge problems with coccidiosis.


Most likely due to poor sanitation, not cleaning out feeders/waterers and changing bedding frequently.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

MikeA_15 said:


> I think the levels of Amprolium are be subject to oxidation in feed mixtures, lessening their efficacy each day. The label of Medicated may be misleading too since several types of medication can be used in livestock feeds. Of course, many of us should know continual use/overuse of medications lead to resistance most of the time.


Their feed is medicated with amprolium. Another store I shop at sells turkey feed that's medicated with bacitracin.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

dawg53 said:


> Most likely due to poor sanitation, not cleaning out feeders/waterers and changing bedding frequently.


Their brooders, waterers and feeders are usually pretty clean these days, but it doesn't seem to matter.


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