# Sudden death - 11wk old cuckoo marans



## Pwright (Oct 4, 2012)

I opened my coop this morning and found my 11wk old cuckoo marans cockerel dead under the roost. No signs of trauma, no hard lumps anywhere on his body, behaved fine last night. I gave them some strawberries yesterday that came from our garden (organic, no pesticides or fertilizer) that I didn't want due to them having bites out of them from wildlife or being overripe. Could that be the cause? I didn't see "mold" but I know strawberries can have fungal diseases...? He didn't seem sick at all before dying.


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## Apyl (Jun 20, 2012)

Chickens don't always show illness or injury. Its in their nature to hide it. There is no telling what caused the death.


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## clintdaniels83 (May 23, 2013)

Any cocci signs.


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## Pwright (Oct 4, 2012)

No, none at all. All droppings have been normal. No other chickens have gotten ill either. I posted on BYC and someone suggested sudden death syndrome (cardiac arrest). I thought that was only with meat birds who were growing too fast, but the link I was given really fit the description of his death and said it's less common in backyard breeds that meat builders but still possible. I've kept them on a high protein starter/grower to reduce feather picking. The cockerel I lost was one of the biggest, fastest growing boys. The link said the positioning of the bird after death would typically be flat on back with neck and legs outstretched - exactly as I found him. Since he had no other injuries or symptoms I'm thinking maybe he did have a heart attack - or possibly another massive organ failure that was inevitable. The worst part is this - the same day I lost him, we lost an older hen to a predator while she was free ranging. Prior to that I'd only lost one chicken ever - at she was also to a daytime predator.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Might want to reduce that protein....young birds kidneys can't really process that level of protein and it can lead to joint and organ difficulties. I may also lead to gout in your older birds, which will evidence with limping and, eventually, bumblefoot. 

Picking is a space issue and not so much a protein issue. Regular flock or layer ration is adequate protein for any chicken.


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## Pwright (Oct 4, 2012)

Oh - my older birds get regular layer pellets plus treats and freechoice calcium and grit. My birds under 16 weeks get the 20% protein blend. Now I'm wondering if I should reduce them to a 15%...I think it's labeled as a finisher? They're too young for layer feed. They have loads of space to roam and get away from each other in their own pen, plus they have access to the adult pen while they're out freeranging in the daytime. The picking started in the brooder, but I still have a couple with stubby tails that they tend to still get ahold of and pull out if noticed. They've been in their outdoor huge pen for six weeks now. I made aprons with tail covers for those three but I planned to keep them on the 20% feed until I switched to layer after 16-18wks of age. I thought it would reduce feather pulling plus help with new feather growth. Is that not recommended? I appreciate the advice.


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## Pwright (Oct 4, 2012)

I guess I should have mentioned my "high" protein was 20%, not super high. Just higher than I started with - 18% medicated. Sorry!


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

Yes, not recommended. Whenever people recommend upping proteins for flocks that are picking one another, they make the assumption the birds are subsisting on low nutrient feeds when most bagged feeds have the adequate amount of protein. 

Telling someone to "up proteins" without examining the conditions of the bird's life/living conditions is the equivalent to telling someone to "just cut out sodium" when they've been diagnosed with high blood pressure. Isn't worth a plugged nickel unless you know all the possible sources and reasons for the hypertension. 

Finisher feeds are for meat birds at the end of their life...it is to lay on fat and weight before they are processed. People who feed that don't care if they have problems with their kidneys or heart failure because they are going to die anyway~thus they are prone to heart failure at a very young age and have "flip"...which is just a fancy euphemism for a heart attack. Giving it to young birds can cause problems, as you've found, as they cannot process that level of protein. 

You should have opened the bird up and looked at her organs to see what you could see...doing so can be very educational at times.


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## Pwright (Oct 4, 2012)

So then what do you feed them until they're ready for the layer feed? Layer feed has 16% protein (higher than finisher) but has extra calcium for eggshell production - which isn't good for chickens under 16-18 weeks either from everything I've read. As far as I can find local my choices are 18%med, 20% starter/grower, 20% broiler with animal protein, 15% finisher, or 16% layer with higher calcium. Other than game or duck which is 20+%. I've compared all the labels and read the recommendations. I thought the starter/grower was the correct one until laying age. No? I've not heard that it's safe to give layer feed to growing age chickens because of the added calcium.


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

I'm sorry, I misunderstood your post and thought you had been feeding a finisher that was 20% protein. I was thinking you were feeding a high pro finishing feed as those do who feed broilers. My mistake! 

I can only tell you how I do it, as I don't go by what the books say..actually, I've never read a poultry book all the way through and I don't buy pre-bagged feeds if I can help it. I give chick starter sometimes for the first 2 wks but then I start them on layer/whole grains. 

Been doing that for years without any health issues....my 6 yr old birds were started on layer mash as chicks and didn't even receive chick starter. They are still healthy and laying even yet. Could be because the bulk of their food comes from forage and not from the feeder, so they don't get as much of that feed as most flocks and they also exercise more. 

Back when we had chickens as a girl, we didn't have chick starter and all birds were given layer rations from day one. Granny gave her chicks cornmeal only until they went out on free range. 

Every person has to do what they think is right in that area.... but I'd avoid high pro unless you are trying to boost an animal that is malnourished for some reason. Flock or layer ration with 16% is adequate nutrition for any chicken, IME.


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## Pwright (Oct 4, 2012)

That's okay - I wasn't very specific in my initial post 
I hear so many different ways to raise them best - it's hard to know if I'm doing it right or not, lol. I felt I was doing pretty well until I lost my marans this week. Predators while free-ranging (right outside my door but near the woods) I can understand - it's a risk I accept to let them scratch freely in the afternoons while I'm home. This was my first unexplainable death. I guess I'll never know for sure but will stay vigilant with the rest of the flock. Thank you for your responses!


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## Bee (Jun 20, 2013)

No worries...sometimes they die and you never know why. You'll just go in the coop and find them where they fell off the roost. This happens to everyone eventually and most of the time we don't know why...we just watch the other birds and wait. Usually it's a one time occurrence and you won't see it again for several more years..and still never know why!


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