# Drugs Transitioning from Over-the-Counter (OTC) to Prescription (Rx) Status



## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

*Effective January 1 2017*

Water soluble powders
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/ucm482106.htm








Tylosin powder is already RX only, though it can still be purchased without a prescription on Amazon and from pigeon supply websites.









http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/ucm482107.htm


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Wow, thanks for posting this Kathy. It's a mighty mighty important issue. 
Seems to be many that should not be on there (sulfadimethoxine for one). 
I think stocking up on some is wise.
I think pigeon people will always find a way to get these meds.
I think already there are many of them that come from outside of the country anyway.
We will be setting up a med swap here using pm's or code words. I'm sure that there are always some of us that will have an abundance of something that they can't use up before an expiration date. I have also found luck with those sites dedicated to those birds like falcons that carry meds. 

At least we have some warning. Kathy where did you find this?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I sort of saw this while in the waiting room for PT and thought, oh, oh. And also realized at the same time why. How many times have we cringed when we read about someone throwing antibiotics at their birds for no good reason. I also thought about how the push for removing drugs from feed has been on ongoing thing. But then reality hit and I realized that it probably won't affect the feed thing at all.

How this is going to hurt is that we do not have enough vets or enough money in our pockets if we do have a vet to run our sick birds in to the vet when it's needed. 

Being that this is the FDA doing this, there is nothing much we can do about it. Except like Sem mentioned, an underground. Not sure I would trust drugs from overseas since they don't have to meet any minimum.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Most of those meds in both lists treat poultry respiratory diseases. I dont like seeing penicillin G procaine, albon, and tylan on the lists....very aggravating as these meds can be used for various infections besides respiratory diseases, for example; progressive bumblefoot infections, eye infections, infected wounds, bacterial/protozoal infections etc...
Also, hygromycin B is a very low level antibiotic used in Rooster Booster Triple wormer and Durvet Strike lll wormer. It has negligible residue in eggs.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Another link:
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary...ance/JudiciousUseofAntimicrobials/default.htm


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary...ce/JudiciousUseofAntimicrobials/ucm390429.htm


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

> Changes to Antibiotics Regulations Coming December 2016
> By Dr. Mike Apley
> 
> The discussion of antibiotic use in food animals continues to get a lot of attention as new regulations are scheduled to take effect.
> ...


Source: http://www.beefcattleinstitute.org/changes-antibiotics-regulations/


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

This is just like when they were introducing APHIS, they only considered how to implement it for commercial producers but at the same time it sucked in every little guy that had a cow or chicken in his/her backyard. It took a lot of work on the part of the small producer's part to get them to make modifications that allowed for the differences between small and commercial. 

I'm not sure that the same can be done with the FDA but something different needs to be considered for us.


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## Feline (Nov 8, 2015)

I have to say, in general I see more benefits to this kind of regulation than negatives in the most part. Totally unqualified people throwing antibiotics at self-diagnosed diseases at a dose rate they have invented and might or might not continue with for the completion of a course is a recipe for causing resistance. We've already lost many of these antibiotics as potentially useful and life saving treatments for humans.

Don't get me wrong- if an animal/ chicken has an infection that has been cultured and found to be sensitive to a particular drug- it is right they should be prescribed it. Where a situation is grim and there won't be time to get a diagnosis confirmed then the use of broad spectrum antibiotics might be justified. But this is a complicated scientific decision and shouldn't be one made by 'the internet'.

If stronger regulation of these drugs is not enforced then very soon it will become elementary anyway- because none of them will work anymore. If people feel cross about this they should consider how they will feel when themselves, a son, daughter, parent or friend are in hospital dying from an infection that no longer has a treatment. A few years ago people would have dismissed this way of thinking as catastrophising things and over reacting. However I think it's now becoming a reality we should take very seriously.


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

I concur, Feline. I see and hear more and more about antibiotic resistant diseases.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Now we have socialized medicine coming to our animals. I dont want the government telling me what I can or cant use for my penny ante flock. Next they'll be telling us how much toilet paper to use. Wrongo bongo.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

While I agree with everything thing Feline said, we have a big problem here in the US. Our vets are not trained to treat chickens or to diagnose problems or to administer many drugs. Many are totally unwilling to even try. Most do not have the vacuum containers needed to draw blood, what they have are the large kind that will bleed a bird out.

My Head Tuck turns ten next month. The only reason she made it past six months old is because of the treatment of my willing but very concerned vet. She received minimal training when it came to treating birds and the only reason Head Tuck is making it to ten years old is because she gave me the drugs I told her I needed. She had no clue and was pretty sceptical when I told her what I needed and what the dose needed to be. 

When it runs in to issues with using the wrong or inappropriate drugs are those that run to the medicine cabinet with no clue. Truthfully they are in the minority but we remember them best because they were so off base in what they did. All those I know with experience raising chickens don't do that.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

nannypattyrn said:


> I concur, Feline. I see and hear more and more about antibiotic resistant diseases.


Look at commercial producers, not the small flock owner. Feeding antibiotics to commercial animals for a bigger profit is why these steps are being taken.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

dawg53 said:


> Now we have socialized medicine coming to our animals. I dont want the government telling me what I can or cant use for my penny ante flock. Next they'll be telling us how much toilet paper to use. Wrongo bongo.


It's the same old [email protected] where the fda has to pick on the miniscule items rather than the big ones. The no more antibiotics continuously for chickens. That was a big deal. But also leading to an increase in enteritis.

I've always thought that adults are having alot of resistance to certain antibiotic families because they were bombarded as kids. Most, not all antibiotics I give chickens are not used for adults. Not a valid argument to me. I don't think the fda has even given backyard chickens or pigeons any thought. We treat our own because of lack of vets that will treat, and those who will -may not write for meds for a flock of 20 or 50, etc., Without even actually seeing them.

Many of the meds already come from outside the country. Many of these people on forums do ask for opinions on what they should use, and advice.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I have 5 hens right now that are alive because I treated them. I've prolonged many more lives due to antibiotics and tube feeding. Amprolium is on that list too. How many chicks has anyone here saved with Corid? And if I waited for a vet, they'd all have died by the time I got the meds. 
I vaccinated all my birds for pox after losing a few to pox. And, how many have I vaccinated for Marek's ? Knock on wood, my Silkies will be a year old next month, all vaccinated by me. I still have all 10. There will always be a way.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

I'll be placing a special order with Jeffers this coming November. I see they are targeting pyrantel and ivermectin in combo with certain antibiotics. I hope wormers arnt next. If so, I'll send photos of a chicken carcass filled with large roundworms to the Secretary of Health and Human Services Sylvia Burwell and a photo of a tube of pyrantel pamoate explaining that the product wouldve prevented "this" from happening in a backyard flock. 

A little off subject, but this reminds me of the federal governments "water saving" toilet fiasco years ago. Anyone remember that?


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Get ready for more.That 5% voice that tweets the loudest is changing the landscape.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> Get ready for more.That 5% voice that tweets the loudest is changing the landscape.


We see that today. The silent majority needs to speak up!


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

seminolewind said:


> I have 5 hens right now that are alive because I treated them. I've prolonged many more lives due to antibiotics and tube feeding. Amprolium is on that list too. How many chicks has anyone here saved with Corid? And if I waited for a vet, they'd all have died by the time I got the meds.
> I vaccinated all my birds for pox after losing a few to pox. And, how many have I vaccinated for Marek's ? Knock on wood, my Silkies will be a year old next month, all vaccinated by me. I still have all 10. There will always be a way.


I saw amprolium listed in one of the links, but it was listed with other drugs, so I think that anything that's made with an antibiotic and amprolium will require a prescription, but amprolium on it's own will not. Make sense?

Here is an example:








http://www.betterchem.com/vet/vet_by_api_e.htm
Search for Erythro® (Low Lev) / Amp plus Etho


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Thanks, Kathy.
Dawg, that wormer would affect horses, and all livestock.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

dawg53 said:


> I'll be placing a special order with Jeffers this coming November. I see they are targeting pyrantel and ivermectin in combo with certain antibiotics. I hope wormers arnt next. If so, I'll send photos of a chicken carcass filled with large roundworms to the Secretary of Health and Human Services Sylvia Burwell and a photo of a tube of pyrantel pamoate explaining that the product wouldve prevented "this" from happening in a backyard flock.
> 
> A little off subject, but this reminds me of the federal governments "water saving" toilet fiasco years ago. Anyone remember that?


Pretty sure that wormers alone are not being targeted.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

This is on the list:
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Animal...ds/MedicatedFeed/BlueBirdLabels/UCM258210.pdf


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Medicated feed:
http://www.elanco.us/products-services/swine/dysentery-ileitis-control-premix.aspx


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Animal...ds/MedicatedFeed/BlueBirdLabels/UCM430336.pdf


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Yeah, I read all that. I miss raising hogs, its been years since I had them. Thanks Kathy for posting all this info, a great heads up for everyone.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

Ugh. If they want big producers to stop feeding antibiotics to increase growth rate I am all for that but this is too much. It's going to hurt the little guys. We only use antibiotics as a last resort but I am happy I had access to them when I did need them. It's not even just chicken people who are going to suffer it's really anyone with small animals that knows how to use these things. I stopped bothering bringing rats, hamsters, and rabbits to the vet because they didn't know about these "exotics," AT ALL, though they liked to claim they did and would poo-poo anything you had to say on the matter. I don't know how many times I have heard of dog and cat vets giving rabbits penicillin (which resulted in a lot of dead rabbits!) This is frustrating. I mean there are idiots who try to use antibiotics as a magic cure all for everything but I sincerely believe they're in the minority compared to the big guys using antibiotics for growth.... I really do. It would be better to police that by stating you can only buy a certain amount without prescription (i.e. if you have a flock of 2,000 birds a vet would have to say you actually have a legitimate problem and that's the correct solution for it...)


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

What do we expect from people who are just NOW realizing that hens should not live their life in a cage!


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I'd LOve to get Michael's input on this.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

All the posts on the web referring to using unapproved drugs by backyard flocks didn't help this situation.Most commercial livestock producers have a Vet. on hand , and they aren't the ones buying them at TSC, Rural King etc.


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## zamora (May 26, 2015)

This is just FANTASTIC (insert sarcasm here). Herpers (herpetologists) have been dealing with this for so many years and trying to find ways around keeping our reptiles healthy and now I'm going to have to worry about my chickens too? 

I have to fight overzealous 'animal rights activists' constantly, they are always trying to ban interstate transportation of reptiles among other things, this is a major concern to me because the only exotic vet worth a damn is over state lines. Just as some of you have stated, trying to find vets that understand how to treat anything other than dogs, cats, horses and cattle is a daunting task so self medicating is sometimes all we have.

Some of those medications will affect other animals as well.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Here's another culprit.."free of steroids and added hormones"
By saying yours doesn't have them,you imply that others do,which is flat out a lie.
View attachment 19577


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

http://agricultureproud.com/2016/02/24/antibiotics-in-livestock-and-veterinary-feed-directives/


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