# This makes no sense to me.......



## starsevol (Jan 11, 2013)

I live in the suburbs and will be getting my first chickens this weekend. Last year my town passed an ordinance allowing residents to keep hens, but no roos. More and more across the country people are allowed to keep poultry where they never were before, but many places allow hens only. Since I live on only a quarter of an acre, with neighbors on all sides, I think bantams are absolutely perfect for my situation. I don't want to get chicks, because I will fall in love with each and every one of them, and can't keep the boys. 

So, with all the new urban and suburban keepers just starting up, who might find bantams the perfect bird, why dont any of the big hatcheries (or small hatcheries) offer bantam pullets for sale?


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Its because the chicks are so small, the slightly rough handling required to sex them could kill them. Its a risky business sexing bantam littles.


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## starsevol (Jan 11, 2013)

Fiere said:


> Its because the chicks are so small, the slightly rough handling required to sex them could kill them. Its a risky business sexing bantam littles.


Good point. But what about older birds that are fully feathered? Those are really what I am most interested in.

I do see that Cackle has some nice small pullet packages for us city folks. I really want feathered brahma banties, but if there are none for sale at the show this weekend, I am tempted with the deals over there....not that I want chicks.....

Plus my favorite breed is brahma, followed by Cochin. I wonder how hard it would be to convince them that their "hatchery choice" are a mix of those breeds?


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

They are hard to do. Not impossible just hard

If you really want bantams you could try to get started juvenilles but they can have other cons like cost and you have to be careful with the birds being healthy and not inheriting a problem.

What is your exact purpose? The space difference between a bantam and a regular size bird is only a handful of square feet. Decoration or eggs or both? fancy eggs? (I am ruling out meat as your desired due to your post.)

The smaller they are the better they seem to fly out of warning but this can be fixed by clipping their wing feathers every now and then. There are exceptions to this rule like silkies and frizzle cochins

*This is the only hatchery I know that offers sexed bantam chicks *http://www.mypetchicken.com/catalog/Bantams-c46.aspx

You may have a waiting period though if it's a popular breed. They are sexed for like 7-10 dollars a bird extra for female. They are mostly $8 dollars extra for females if the straight run is $4. Assorted are $7. The most expensive is Welsummer bantams. The price depends on rarity and difficulty.

They have a feathered leg package for 10.50 a pullet day old chick

But if your breed specific it will cost about $1.50 extra.

The minimum order is 3 chicks per order.

Regular sized are less expensive but like I said the reason it's high is because it's hard


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## starsevol (Jan 11, 2013)

In my area we have a local show, The Little Rhody Poultry Fanciers that meet twice a year. I would say the mix is about 75% bantams and there are often young birds for sale. The show is scheduled for Sunday. My first choice is to get my birds there, because in my opinion, people who show are often very passonate about their breed and take great care of them. Any animal on the grounds will be healthy and used to being handled. At least chances of that are good, anyway. Cost is not a huge deterrant for me, although I am hoping the prices don't exceed $35 a bird.

I have found a breeder in Massachusetts who has shown her birds at the show I am attending, and she breeds exactly what I want. I sent an email yesterday but have not heard back yet. So of course I'm on pins and needles!

The coop I have is only 15 sq feet, with a 45 sq ft run so I think bantams are the best option for me. I also plan to make a moveable run so they can go to different parts of the yard, but only when I am home to watch them. 

Eggs,,,yes we do want eggs. But the husband and I don't eat alot of eggs so 4-6 small eggs a week would be fine for us. I primarily want pets that will eat bugs and compost the garden. 

I know that large fowl brahma don't fly, but I don't know whether or not that is true for bantams. But from what I read about them, they are super calm and docile and I am hoping to (now don't laugh) clicker train them.

Thank you so much for the info. I have seen mpc, but the waiting list was a tad discouraging.


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

Well yes, but I'm trying to give you options.

I think for eggs you may be better off getting a small number of an egg regular chickens your preference. You have plenty of room for a handful that would give you the amount of eggs you want. And the cost would be a lot less as you can tell by the prices. I have 3 regular sized australorps and I've been getting 12-14 eggs a week with the same space. This will drop in winter by a bit probably but my point is you could exceed your exceptions with your space.

I have them in a 16 sq ft coop with a 49 sq ft run which is oversized for them by far. Everything about my coop is mobile. With your coop size you could probably have a max of 15 bantams or 5ish regular chickens. (My math is the 1 sq foot per bantam in coop and the 2 sq foot per regular in coop and allowing a minimum run space) Giving chickens more space tho is not a bad thing and I think you would be overwhelmed with eggs at those numbers.

The bantams don't lay large grocery store like eggs if that's what you are after. They will lay probably a small to medium in size and grade double a if you eat them fresh.

From what I'm understanding you want a feather legged bird as pet quality and egg production levels at a sunday brunch sort of deal (4-6).

Do you like certain colors of eggs? brown, white, blue, green, multi? (I don't know exactly what is on the priority list and I'm trying to figure out but the ones you like so far are cream or brown egg layers that lay 2-3 eggs a week roughly each)

How much maintenance do you want? Birds with long pretty tails can require more maintenance of said tail or some birds you may have to clip there wings like easter eggers. Bantam frizzle cochins cannot fly because of their feathers. Bantam brahmas I know of can clear 6 foot fences unless they have had their wings clipped. My birds are low maintenance and there are bantams that have feather legs that are low maintenance too.

It is possible to train them but not exactly like a dog. They need subtle hints and they are highly food motivated usually. Mine will work for meal worms. Be careful not to overfeed treats. It's possible to clicker train them but very difficult and requires patience. It's used as a test to make dog trainers better and with animal science majors like me.










More clicker trained chickens doing agilitychicken plays musical instrument and run agility course. Video turned up as a link instead of video.

What exactly are you looking to train?


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## starsevol (Jan 11, 2013)

Wow, thank you for the info!! I was under the impression that a coop as small as mine could only hold 7-8 bantams comfortably. When I said 4-6 eggs a week, I meant that was all we wanted total, from the whole flock! I bought a dozen eggs last week and haven't even opened them yet! As far as egg color, I love the idea of blue or green eggs, but the temperament of the bird is the most important thing to me. I want something wicked sweet and friendly. 


I do love astralorpes though, and it is nice that if a large fowl breed strikes my fancy, it is doable. 

I held my first hen at this show last fall, a barnevelder. She was gorgeous and so calm and sweet. The same breeder who had the barnevelder also had buckeyes and I like those too. I read that buckeyes don't peck at other birds and I really like that quality about them.

I know these wonderful wee beasties are food motivated, and was going to use a clicker and treat system to get them to run to me in a hurry.....maybe the clicker would not be needed!

I cannot wait to start on this journey!


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## LittleWings (Jul 15, 2013)

Lol. You won't need a clicker. Once they know you are the treat person they will all come running. 
I just sing "chicky chicky chick chick, chick chick chicky" (it must be said exactly like that lol) and they come running. 
Silkies might be a good breed for you. I have one and it is crazy how much more friendly and trusting she is than any of my others.


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## starsevol (Jan 11, 2013)

My husband's biggest problem with silkies is that "he wants a chicken that looks like a chicken" LOL.....and he is the one building the coop.


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## nj2wv (Aug 27, 2013)

Once they know you are the go to person for food you won't even be able to open your front door without them begging for more. Mine tap on my door. I think they clicker trained me 


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

(sorry if this is wall of text but I really hope I am helping you out)

*For blue and green eggs*, the best breed is an easter egger or ameraucunas but they are a little flighty and might not suite your desired personality (They are sweet but they are a little skiddish and very fast). There is a small difference between the 2. The easter egger is a mix where one was an ameraucuna and the Ameraucuna is the pure version. There are other birds but those are the most cost effective of blue and green egg layers.

There is also a Araucunas. They have distinctive tufts on there head and are hard to breed (therefore I would be suprised if you paid an arm and a leg). The breeds get confused because they sound so similar but they are some differances that are cosmetic mostly (egg color and appearance). However a lot of people try to go for the fancy one, pay a lot of money, and get an easter egger and get semi mad because they got screwed.

*By chicken, does your husband mean* looney tunes character Foghorn Leghorn? My husband said something similar when we got chickens and turns out he wanted foghorn leghorn. Leghorn is a breed and they are good white egg layers. They are the chicken the cartoon characters are based off of. But it's a flighty little devil. They semi act like the cartoon character too (friendly, noisy and don't know when to shut up). I showed him an australorp and he decided they look pretty and it fufilled the it looks like a chicken. When my husband said it, it kinda made me scratch my head a little because my thought was of course it will look like a chicken. It is one.

*Breed with sweet personalities*
My Australorps (Australian Orpington) are lovely sweet birds that fit your personality and space requirements to a tee if you got 4. Don't get 4 if you want 3-6 eggs a week. They are suppose to lay 3-4 eggs a week and right now mine are overachivers. They come in black mostly but can be found in other colors. They are generally hardy.

Orpingtons are the other bird that fit your personality. They act like golden retrievers. They lay 3 eggs a week. It's a cousin to the australorp but more fluffy and most winter hardy chicken I know. It's very popular in new england and would probably be easy to find. Mostly come in buff (a yellowish color) but can come in other colors. They act like laid back golden retrivers and sometimes are too laid back for their own good. They don't mix well with very aggressive birds.

Barnevelders are also really friendly and lay 3 eggs a week. The only thing is to get one is small orders you may have to go to a breeder. All the hatcherys I know that have it do orders of 25.

Brahmas and cochins are good too but they have already been mentioned

I would definitely consider silkies. They are small soft sweet little buggers that lay a handful of eggs a month (1-2 a week at my cousins house). With them, if you got 8 you probably wouldn't have egg-a-poloza in your fridge. They really can't fly well and you may have to build ladders for them. When you hold them it's like petting a cat.

There's other breeds I can think of but those would be top on my list.

This is a which breed is right for you test
My pet chicken breed selector test

*Numbers*
Of most the breeds you are looking at... I would get not more then 4 because you would get a dozen a week or more. However, I wouldn't get less than 3 because it allows room for error.

You can mix and match breeds if you want. You don't have to commit to one. For example you get one to clicker train a bit and the others to satisfy other aspects you would like (green eggs for example) or you can get your husband his chicken breed of choice. Unless you want one breed

On a side note, silkies and some other breeds are special in the fact they can be a little late bloomers. There are a couple post on this forum where people are concerned because no silky eggs after x amount of months. These breeds typically fall into the ornamental category. They do make good pets tho.


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## starsevol (Jan 11, 2013)

Thank you so much for your wonderful answers! Actually, I have been geeking out over breeds for a little over a year now. The major reasons that I had crossed australorps and orpingtons from my list was based purely on size. I have read every breed profile I can get my hands on, read a breed encyclopedia and googled every breed that had any of the characteristics I was looking for.....until I would get a spinny head!!
Stop for about a month, and go at it all again!

I have never actually kept anything, and have a ton to learn, but at least when I go to the show tomorrow morning I have a good idea of breeds that will fit into my lifestyle and have a better chance of knowing what I am looking at.

As far as looking like a chicken, he just means the basic profile. No silkies, Polish, Turkans, showgirls, banties that are teeny-tiny.....

Brahmas, Cochins, Sussex, orpingtons, australorps, buckeye, barnvelder, Plymouth rocks, rirs, those are fine with him.

As for names...I am considering Penny, Sophia, Lizzie and Mika......

I plan to get four or five to start, but if I got banties I would have room for additions when the older girls slow down. I will be at the show in less than 12 hours......I am like a kid at Christmas!!!


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

I think bantam would be a good way to go if you are looking to expand. You could have tons of chickens in little space without having to rebuild.

They have bantam orpingtons but they can be hard to find (I know of places but it's a 25 chick minimum order) and bantam plymouth rocks are easy but the place I know of has a wait list. I think most of the breeds you mentioned he liked have a bantam form.

Bantam bramha, bantam cochins and silkies may be you best bets as far as easy to find and get


If breed numbers were not important to you, I would get a assorted package at my pet chicken because you could get 5 female bantys in most the breeds mentioned. You could get the non feathered legs to make hubby happy or the feathered legged. You wouldn't be able to pick them out. (non feathered legs comes with either welsummer, plymouth rock, easter egger and polish all bantam with a mix of at least 2 if order of 5) (feathered come with variety of cochin, brahma, mille fleur d'uccles or silky with a mix of 3 with an order of 5).

If breed is important however you may want to have a wait list.


Have fun but be careful not to go crazy and come home with 20. Hopefully you can find a good breeder that can help you out.


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## starsevol (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks so much, your thoughts are pretty much my thoughts! We can't have more than a dozen birds per resident, so I know I won't be grabbing 20, and room for expansion is pretty much the plan. Hubby does like large fowl too....maybe a mix....

We leave for the show in an hour. I am dying with excitement!!!


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## starsevol (Jan 11, 2013)

Just got back from the show. Very little for sale but there were 2 silkie pullets.....passed those up because of the whole not looking like a chicken thing. But I did end up with two large fowl, a Cochin and an Orpington.......


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

starsevol said:


> Just got back from the show. Very little for sale but there were 2 silkie pullets.....passed those up because of the whole not looking like a chicken thing. But I did end up with two large fowl, a Cochin and an Orpington.......


Those are nice birds. I recommend getting a 3rd or 4th. Probably a bantam.

Be careful about your next breed selection because you may have an over production problem from your target of 4-6. In your case silkie maybe ideal or breed considered to be bad layer which is ironic.

They are heritage birds so they lay semi forever. Pictures please


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## starsevol (Jan 11, 2013)

In time I am sure a third or fourth will be coming my way. Perhaps at the fair in August. The Orpington is clearly the dominant hen, she chases and pecks at the Cochin. She is also a lot harder for me to catch and hold than the Cochin is. I hope in time she calms down a little. 

Today they had a little shredded carrot and cabbage and a few dried mealworms for treats, and some crumble. I can't believe they are really here.......


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## starsevol (Jan 11, 2013)

Ok, a month ago hubby was like "I really don't want chickens". A week ago Sunday he designed the coop and we started building it. We got the girls this past Sunday, 2 days ago. Yesterday he wanted me to hold Molly so he could pet her.....then I see him going out to the coop, treats in hand, saying that he needs to give them treats so they get to know him too.......then he decided that since at least the Penny the Orpington was in with a roo, and most likely Molly the Cochin had been with a roo recently we should try to hatch a few eggs. If they hatch we keep a pullet or two......he is now building an incubator!!!


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## nj2wv (Aug 27, 2013)

I think he is hooked lol. 


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

I see lots of eggs in your future lol. 

I think he likes chickens more than he lets on. Careful with hatching eggs, you won't likely get all pullets and will have do find a way to rehome the boys. You could do a order and get day olds tho from a hatchery if he wants more chicks

Mine is the same, he liked our chickens for their black coloring with green shine and their sweet personality.


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## starsevol (Jan 11, 2013)

hellofromtexas said:


> I see lots of eggs in your future lol.
> 
> I think he likes chickens more than he lets on. Careful with hatching eggs, you won't likely get all pullets and will have do find a way to rehome the boys. You could do a order and get day olds tho from a hatchery if he wants more chicks
> 
> Mine is the same, he liked our chickens for their black coloring with green shine and their sweet personality.


He is using the excuse that if we hatch a pullet or 2, I won't need to buy another one. If we hatch 6-8....big if....I would keep a girl or 2 and all the rest would go as a group. I hope! We have a fair in August and I am hopeful that a roo giveaway would work......

I have ALWAYS wanted chickens.....but not chicks in the house!


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

starsevol said:


> He is using the excuse that if we hatch a pullet or 2, I won't need to buy another one. If we hatch 6-8....big if....I would keep a girl or 2 and all the rest would go as a group. I hope! We have a fair in August and I am hopeful that a roo giveaway would work......
> 
> I have ALWAYS wanted chickens.....but not chicks in the house!


I understand. They kinda do have the house phase and the only way to avoid it is to get juveniles and sometime that's a little hard too.

Don't be too picky when it comes to roo giveaways but if they start asking questions to how they fight I wouldn't give it to them.

With 4 chickens being a mix of cochin and orpingtons (50/50 for math sake) you will probably have 10 eggs a week during good weeks. So, I really wouldn't get any more than the 4.

Egg consumption usually increases after getting chickens because they are more tasty (less eggy taste) and you don't run anywhere to get them,


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## starsevol (Jan 11, 2013)

hellofromtexas said:


> I understand. They kinda do have the house phase and the only way to avoid it is to get juveniles and sometime that's a little hard too.
> 
> Don't be too picky when it comes to roo giveaways but if they start asking questions to how they fight I wouldn't give it to them.
> 
> ...


So far these 2 girls have given me 3 eggs in 2 days. Crazy stuff!! As far as the roos, if there ever are any.....I think it is my duty to them that if they won't get a good life, they should have a humane death, if that makes any sense. So any talk of fighting and its a no-go.


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

starsevol said:


> So far these 2 girls have given me 3 eggs in 2 days. Crazy stuff!! As far as the roos, if there ever are any.....I think it is my duty to them that if they won't get a good life, they should have a humane death, if that makes any sense. So any talk of fighting and its a no-go.


Well yes, and if you want to answer their hypothetical question honestly, they fight horribly because they are too laid back.

It is your decision and I'm sure you may be able to find someone looking for an oprington or cochin roo as a pet or for breeding purposes but it's one of those things to be weary of.

If they are young they will lay alot of eggs but not consistently. When they get older they may lay 5 a week average good week. In winter they may take a break to moult and/or may go slightly down if they get stressed or the weather is really horrible.


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## starsevol (Jan 11, 2013)

Oh I know, and hubby does too.

But if this formerly anti-chicken guy wants to build an incubator, I sure as heck don't want to discourage him!

Plus I also know that hatching chicks is really difficult so I am pretty sure that even if we do everything perfectly, there still is a good chance there will be no chicks for us!


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