# Need help! Another dead chicken



## dmkrieg (Jul 11, 2017)

Im new to chickens and have only been raising them since April and I know everyone loses a chicken here and there but I thought mostly would be due to predators. However, since I started raising chickens in April I've lost 5 and have no idea why. I was hoping I could tell you all what all I have done raising my chickens and you could tell me what I could possibly be doing wrong. So here goes....

CHICKEN HOUSING: First off I have my 20 chickens in my pole barn in an area which is approx 20' long x 12' with an attached run that is 40 long x 15' wide. Their area is enclosed and the barn does tend to get a little dusty because the aisle way is mostly dirt with some gravel underneath it. Even though the barn itself gets a little dusty they have windows on their area to air it out. I clean their area out probably only once a month if I could be honest and add pine shavings to their stall whenever I feel it needs it.

FEED AND WATER:
I've been feeding Kent's Chicken Extra Egg Layer CRUMBLES and have been making sure their 3 feeders stay full.
We go in to the barn and collect eggs twice a day at that time I check to make sure they have water. I have given them FLOCK PARTY TREATS

WHATS HAPPENED RECENTLY and where my concern is: I've lost 2 hens one yesterday and one today. I've also had a few eggs with VERY PALE almost white yolks. I feed all the same food each day and the grass outside in their run is gone now. Yesterday I washed the water containers and put in a water treatment that is supposed to be used for chickens water and treated per the recommendation. However one of my white chickens died yesterday and one the day before. When I went in to change their water it did smell a bit that's why I added the treatment. I completely dump their water containers approximately every other day but I do know they do tend to get a film on the inside.

Vaccines: I haven't ever dewormed or vaccinated my chickens.

FINALLY MY QUESTIONS: 
Could that be an issue?

Could the Flock party treats be an issue? We typically just throw the treats out and let them all go get them. I do have some grit in there but thought since they are on crumble feed it probably wasn't necessary.

Could it be because I haven't dewormed them or vaccinated? I've bought them all as hatchlings back in April from Tractor Supply and Rural King.

Could it be the water treatment? One died after day1 of adding the vitamin electrolyte supplement to their water I lost one chicken. Another one, I thought was because when I went in the barn that evening I noticed they were out of water from knocking it off the shelf. Then the last 2 which I explained above after changing their water and adding the water treatment.

I've Attached a couple of pictures right before the last chicken passed in case it helps.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

If something is going on with the flock there must be physical signs that something isn't right. The birds should be showing signs that something is not right. Reduced food intake, droppings not right, staggering, fluffed up.

The one pic shows a bird that had a high water intake. 

You need to pick each one up and do a head to toe exam. Check their eyes, they should be round and bright looking. Check the crop, is it empty, squishy, hard? Check for mites on their heads, under the wings, around the vent. 

This is where you need to do some work before us saying do this or that because it just throwing stuff out to an unknown.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

What the date on the feed?
What exactly is the water treatment?


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Kent codes usually are written

1317057 13(plant)17(year)057(day of year)


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## dmkrieg (Jul 11, 2017)

robin416 said:


> If something is going on with the flock there must be physical signs that something isn't right. The birds should be showing signs that something is not right. Reduced food intake, droppings not right, staggering, fluffed up.
> 
> The one pic shows a bird that had a high water intake.
> 
> ...


I did notice they are drinking A LOT of water recently. I didn't know having too much water is a bad thing???

As far as them acting differently, I haven't noticed any changes they all run up to see me every chance they can and poop seems normal from what I can tell. One thing I did notice is I've had chickens pecking at the walls in my stall and pecked at my foam insulation on my foam walls. I assume that could lead them to them drinking too much. I did block that off with chicken wire now so hopefully no one can still get to it.

The food I bought was just brought in the day I bought it. I will have to dig in the barn trash for the bag it's probably still in my barn dumpster as it was opened about a week ago.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

They will drink a lot in hot weather but it's knocking on the door of Winter. 

You will need to do that exam, it's too hard to venture any kind of guidance without information.

If this happens again it might be a wise thing to get a necropsy done. Contact your state ag vet and ask about how you go about it.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Very pale almost white yolk could possibly be an indicator of capillary worm infection. I strongly recommend that you collect several fecal samples (put them altogether) and take it to a local vet and have them look at it under a microscope. They can tell you if there are worms eggs present and what type. They'll also let you know if there's an overload of cocci eggs.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I agree with Dawg. Take a stool sample to any vet.
I would toss the feed. Give them clean water with NO additives, just water.

With their thirst, are you sure they aren't getting into poison?


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## dmkrieg (Jul 11, 2017)

dawg53 said:


> Very pale almost white yolk could possibly be an indicator of capillary worm infection. I strongly recommend that you collect several fecal samples (put them altogether) and take it to a local vet and have them look at it under a microscope. They can tell you if there are worms eggs present and what type. They'll also let you know if there's an overload of cocci eggs.


I will do that for sure.


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## dmkrieg (Jul 11, 2017)

seminolewind said:


> I agree with Dawg. Take a stool sample to any vet.
> I would toss the feed. Give them clean water with NO additives, just water.
> 
> With their thirst, are you sure they aren't getting into poison?


As far as poison their area is closed in and their run in area is large but almost bare. The only chemical I use is DE mixed in with their dust bath stuff but that hasn't been changed in about a month. I will get rid of any food we are feeding and dump out all their water. I will also switch the food just to be sure the Kent's extra egg crumbles aren't the issue. I don't have any moldy food laying around. Only thing I did put in there is some grass hay that I feed my mini donkeys to use as bedding in a couple of the nesting boxes.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I lost 3 one night and one the next due to Enteritis (Clostridium). They were fine the day before and dead the next morning. The only thing they all had was when I picked them up, blood trickled out their vent. And Clostridium can kill silently overnight.

So to cover that and cocci, I would put them on Sulfadimethoxine in their water for 7 days. This med because it covers cocci and Clostridium and E. coli. Do not use a metal waterer with any treatments because some things react with it and I'm not sure which do. You can find it at feed stores like Tractor supply. There's also that med under a brand name, but I can't remember what.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

I just looked at a couple sites and unfortunately sulfadimethoxine and sulmet now require a vet's prescription.
Albon is available but it's very expensive.


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## dmkrieg (Jul 11, 2017)

dawg53 said:


> I just looked at a couple sites and unfortunately sulfadimethoxine and sulmet now require a vet's prescription.
> Albon is available but it's very expensive.


At this point it would be more expensive for
Me to bring them to the vet then to probably buy Albon. Is it available at a local feed store?


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Here you go:
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/search/sulfadimethoxine
It would be best to get fecals done and necropsy as mentioned so you know exactly what you're dealing with.
Fecal tests dont cost much at the vet. Just bring it to a vet and tell them you want it tested for worms and cocci.


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## dmkrieg (Jul 11, 2017)

dawg53 said:


> Here you go:
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/search/sulfadimethoxine
> It would be best to get fecals done and necropsy as mentioned so you know exactly what you're dealing with.
> Fecal tests dont cost much at the vet. Just bring it to a vet and tell them you want it tested for worms and cocci.


I will definitely do that but would like something in the meantime that can hopefully stop it for now until it can be checked.

Sooo stupid question... how is it best to bring in a sample? Plastic baggy? Does each need to be separate?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

No, they don't have to be separate. Clean as possible. And any container you want to use will work.

The thing about throwing stuff at them without knowing what is wrong is that the cures can be as rough as the disease. Tossing the wrong chemicals at them just muddies up the one that does finally work. 

And if you continue to do that it causes resistance so that when you or anyone else needs to use the drug it no longer works. 

I am dead set against using anything on them without having an idea what the problem is. It's just dumb to make the birds more miserable because we did not learn what the issue was first.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pigeon-Pro...545727?hash=item3f830c10ff:g:D24AAOSwEeFU5jWH

this was on ebay for pigeons


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## dmkrieg (Jul 11, 2017)

robin416 said:


> No, they don't have to be separate. Clean as possible. And any container you want to use will work.
> 
> The thing about throwing stuff at them without knowing what is wrong is that the cures can be as rough as the disease. Tossing the wrong chemicals at them just muddies up the one that does finally work.
> 
> ...


I can appreciate not medicating without knowing what it is and I am planning on bringing in the samples to the vets office tomorrow; however, sometimes I feel it's best to have something on hand in case of an emergency to potentially stop whatever could be going on before it gets bad and kills them. If it's a weekend or holiday they don't have availability and they could, die overnight like mine did.


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## dmkrieg (Jul 11, 2017)

robin416 said:


> They will drink a lot in hot weather but it's knocking on the door of Winter.
> 
> You will need to do that exam, it's too hard to venture any kind of guidance without information.
> 
> If this happens again it might be a wise thing to get a necropsy done. Contact your state ag vet and ask about how you go about it.


Thank you Robin416- im looking up info online to see how I go about getting that exam. Im just concerned I believe I'm doing everything right and to lose 4 within a year is pretty painful and to think two a day apart. My mom said today she watched them and they looked fine so I'm hopeful tomorrow won't yet be another dead. I'm going to find a vet open on the morning and bring up those samples. Thank you all for your advice!


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

Good luck!!!


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Well I see it like this. Sick hens don't lay eggs. So if you still have layers or the dead ones laid, I would assume it's an acute thing vs a chronic thing . So I would be thinking about recent stuff they have gotten in to and not something they've been dealing with for a longer time. 

Have you felt their keel for weight? Do they consume appropriate amount of grain? Drinking a noticeable increased amount of water may be a symptom. Do you see them eating but some aren't really picking up grain and swallowing? Increased water is another possibility with trying to fill themselves up with water because they are pretending to eat and starving.

Unfortunately I went thru a period where I was losing adult chickens more frequently than normal. They had all appeared to be eating and pecked at the feed but weren't picking it up. I went thru a number of theories that could cause wasting. It turned out to be Marek's. So they all appeared normal while they were wasting away .

Your best best bet is to find your county/state animal disease lab and find the instructions on how to send a dead chicken. I immediately wrap them and put them in the fridge. I put them in a cooler with ice packs, and put the cooler in a box. The post office charges me like $22 for overnight delivery in state. I feel I owe it to my flock to find out what is killing them. 

So when I find a chicken who does not look right and I'm not sending, I treat them like they have a suppressed immune system that common bacteria or cocci multiply and kill them .

So if they are going to die anyway, I give them an anticoccidial and one or two antibiotics that I have on hand. Tylan is one because it's injectable. I can throw every chemical at them because the alternative is death. To me it's past the time to be treating them for one thing. I can't send every bird for a necropsy because I can't spend that amount of money. From those who I did sent, most died from low immune related diseases like cocci, enteritis, one apergillosis, e. coli and one from worms. I had a one year old vaccinated bird die from Marek's (lab), and possibly 1 more.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Karen. Your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs above are typical of a bird with cocci infection. Also capillary worms in the crop/esophagus can effect swallowing.
I totally agree with you. I'll throw everything including the kitchen sink at a bird if it's on its way out. 
I look at it as a 50-50 shot. And that's about what my percentages are...50-50. Get on living or get on dying.


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## dmkrieg (Jul 11, 2017)

So I went to the vet with a stool sample and she prescribed me meds for I believe cocci worm. I spent the entire day cleaning the barn with bleach water and burned all the stall pine shavings. Thank you all for your help. I had one hen that seemed like she wasn’t looking very good and I made a mash of their food, the antibiotic and the electrolytes and she seemed to turn around. So hopefully tomorrow is a better day. Thank you all for all your advice!! You guys are awesome!!


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Yea Dawg. No matter how old, I'll treat for cocci first unless it's a snotty nose.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

dmkrieg said:


> So I went to the vet with a stool sample and she prescribed me meds for I believe cocci worm. I spent the entire day cleaning the barn with bleach water and burned all the stall pine shavings. Thank you all for your help. I had one hen that seemed like she wasn't looking very good and I made a mash of their food, the antibiotic and the electrolytes and she seemed to turn around. So hopefully tomorrow is a better day. Thank you all for all your advice!! You guys are awesome!!


Good for you! What are the names of the meds the vet gave you? Also the antibiotic? That'll give us a better idea what you're dealing with and perhaps we could offer more help.


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## dmkrieg (Jul 11, 2017)

dawg53 said:


> Good for you! What are the names of the meds the vet gave you? Also the antibiotic? That'll give us a better idea what you're dealing with and perhaps we could offer more help.


Ok so the vet prescribed us Corid 11 cc
Per gal of water of fresh changed water every day For 7 days. We were to bleach down everything and let air out before putting them back in the area. No other meds were prescribed.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Clean your coop and run more often.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> Clean your coop and run more often.


That would certainly cut down on the population being repopulated. Cocci is always my first choice to treat because it's the most common ailment. After their treatment, put a vitamin/electrolyte supplement in their water like 3x a week or so.

My state lab recommends treating for cocci 2-3 times a year in backyard flocks. Yes, adults get it, not just chicks.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

dmkrieg said:


> Ok so the vet prescribed us Corid 11 cc
> Per gal of water of fresh changed water every day For 7 days. We were to bleach down everything and let air out before putting them back in the area. No other meds were prescribed.


FYI: Bleach is ineffective in eliminating cocci. Use a 10% ammonia solution to kill cocci. Ensure your birds arnt in the area when using ammonia and make sure there's good ventilation.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I use Virkon-kills everything. I have one of those car wash sprayers where you put the soap in a container attached to sprayer and spray everything, and let it dry. Makes it real easy.

But just be warned. Cocci live in the dirt everywhere. A small amount of cocci live in your chicken normally. If a chicken is stressed or ill, the cocci population grows out of control. Since I can't eliminate all the cocci, I have corid at home and keep an eye out for it.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

seminolewind said:


> I use Virkon-kills everything. I have one of those car wash sprayers where you put the soap in a container attached to sprayer and spray everything, and let it dry. Makes it real easy.
> 
> But just be warned. Cocci live in the dirt everywhere. A small amount of cocci live in your chicken normally. If a chicken is stressed or ill, the cocci population grows out of control. Since I can't eliminate all the cocci, I have corid at home and keep an eye out for it.


Does Virkon kill cocci protozoa?


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## boskelli1571 (Oct 30, 2017)

dawg53 said:


> Does Virkon kill cocci protozoa?


I just Googled....it does not specifically say cocci, so I'm guessing probably not. Looks like ammonia is the way to go


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

boskelli1571 said:


> I just Googled....it does not specifically say cocci, so I'm guessing probably not. Looks like ammonia is the way to go


Thanks.

I wonder if salt water kills anything?


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

I thought perhaps activated oxine would kill cocci since it kills everything else, but I guess not. I cant find anything that says that it does kill cocci.
I know cocci have a hard encased shell. High heat can kill them...boiling water, maybe steam or a flamethrower.
Thank goodness for corid and sulfa drugs.


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## boskelli1571 (Oct 30, 2017)

seminolewind said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I wonder if salt water kills anything?


It would make teh area inhospitable at high enough concentration, but I doubt it would kill cocci...it's a hardy little bugger


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