# Worming- one of my worst chores



## seminole wind

I just got done worming again. About 23 chickens and 10 silkies. I first go around with cubes of bread laced with 0.5 ml of Valbazen apiece. About 7+10 don't go for it. That night, I go around and do the rest by syringe. PIA. They won't put up with me pulling on their hackles. I'm not fast enough. So I hold them under one arm with that hand putting a finger in their mouth, and putting the syringe past their air passages. 

I am seriously open to alternatives. Roosters are tough with the bread because they keep dropping it for the girls.


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## dawg53

When I worm my birds, I always worm them first thing in the morning before they eat or drink. When I let them out, I'll herd them into the smaller pen where they're easier to catch. I grab one and cradle her in my arm like you do and pull the wattles down and shoot the preloaded syringe in the mouth and immediately let the hen go into the larger pen.
Sometimes I'll even go inside their house early in the morning before letting them out and worm them. I'll snatch them off the roost one at a time and worm them, then toss them out in the pen. Easy peasy.
Maybe you just need to be a little more assertive handling them Karen.


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## casportpony

Can you get someone to help you? Sometimes when I do my peafowl I ask Mike to help. I catch them, dust for bugs, guess their weight and he draws up the amount of wormer needed for that one.


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## casportpony

If I'm doing them alone, I will pre-fill a bunch of syringes.


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## seminole wind

Dawg, really funny, LOL. I will have to work on being more in charge!

Casportpony, I would ask my hubby but then I get "the face" then the matching "sigh". It's like I'm asking him to do some real big favor. Then there's the last time he helped me when I accidentally vaccinated him for pox. 

I will have to get over this self pity.


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## rich

*There is an easy way to worm your flock using Food Grade Demetrius Earth. 1/4 cup DE to a coffee can of feed ( cracked corn, crumbles or what ever ). Keep in mind this is a recipe not a prescription DE is harmless to man or beast. Feed this mix every three or four months to keep your girls worm free.
DE can also be used to dust your birds and their nest to keep them parasite free. DE kills by effecting their exoskeleton.
A note to those that assume that bold print is a shout. The bold print in my case is not a shout just poor eyesight! THIS IS A SHOUT!!!!! LOL*p


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## dawg53

rich said:


> *There is an easy way to worm your flock using Food Grade Demetrius Earth. 1/4 cup DE to a coffee can of feed ( cracked corn, crumbles or what ever ). Keep in mind this is a recipe not a prescription DE is harmless to man or beast. Feed this mix every three or four months to keep your girls worm free.
> DE can also be used to dust your birds and their nest to keep them parasite free. DE kills by effecting their exoskeleton.
> A note to those that assume that bold print is a shout. The bold print in my case is not a shout just poor eyesight! THIS IS A SHOUT!!!!! LOL*p


You're right. DE IS harmless to man or beast, INCLUDING worms.


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## rich

dawg53 said:


> You're right. DE IS harmless to man or beast, INCLUDING worms.


*Are you sure according to my research it is effective. I agree that there is some debate on the use of DE to control worms. I found it to be effective but that's just me. Maybe I am just lucky not to have a worm problem and happen to use DE.*


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## nannypattyrn

DE can be harmful to breathe esp. in people who are compromised in the lung area, COPD, asthma, etc. for the same reason it supposedly kills insects. I use DE, but mostly for mites and I'm not even sure it works for that. I wear a mask when I use it.


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## casportpony

What I haven't seen are studies that show fecal egg counts before and after DE treatment.


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## seminole wind

I thought DE only worked when dry. Once it's wet, it doesn't do anything. So how would I worm with DE if the DE gets wet in the stomach or crop? 

I think we should all hunt for Valid research on it. Valid meaning testing done within the last 10-15 years and by sources that are linked to documented research with references documented as well.

The one chemical that had misinformation spread to the point of me having words with a chicken supply company is Oxine. I get so mad when I think about it, especially getting my info from the manufacturer.

More or less, Oxine is not Oxine until activated with citric acid. Oxine does not much of anything unless activated. The chemical that is the one that has to be created is Chlorine Dioxide (?sp)
That is the chemical complex that disinfects killing most bacteria and viruses (like Marek's). People will swear it's fine to use inactivated Oxine, but are doing their chickens no favors. Inactivated Oxine without citric acid is little more than something that may make a surface unfriendly to bacteria. But salt water is unfriendly as well.

If you really need a good chemical that will kill biological bacteria and viruses is Virkon. This is commercial strength and the powder keeps for years. It can also be used on wood. I use it on the dirt on the ground in the pen but there is NO documentation for spraying dirt. None. It's one of the crazy things I do. I mix it with water and put it in a sprayer. If a chicken dies, I use Virkon and clean out the coop. You don't have to rinse. But if used in food or water pots, I would rinse.


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## dawg53

rich said:


> *Are you sure according to my research it is effective. I agree that there is some debate on the use of DE to control worms. I found it to be effective but that's just me. Maybe I am just lucky not to have a worm problem and happen to use DE.*


DE is ineffective when wet, just like inside the chickens innards, same as dogs and cats. That's why dogs and cats are given a pill such as Trifexis and Revolution once a month.
Put your chickens in a cage with hardware cloth as flooring, then give them one of the following wormers; wazine, safeguard or valbazen and watch what happens.


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## dawg53

nannypattyrn said:


> DE can be harmful to breathe esp. in people who are compromised in the lung area, COPD, asthma, etc. for the same reason it supposedly kills insects. I use DE, but mostly for mites and I'm not even sure it works for that. I wear a mask when I use it.


You're correct Nanny...but they dont make chicken masks. If the dust gets into the air sacs, it will cause symptoms similar to a respiratory disease and will effect egg laying. Stressed birds slow or stop laying.


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## dawg53

This is the way my hens salute me when it comes to worming:


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## casportpony

Don't get me started on Oxine, lol.


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## rich

*WOW!!!! 
I haven't seen this much emotion since I knocked over the outhouse with my tractor!
Nothing like a lively debate to get the juices flowing. LOL*


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## Feline

I worm mine using layers pellets with Flubendazole pre-added. They get only these to eat for 5 days, which is supposed to ensure they all get a decent dose. It's very very easy to do. I don't know if you can buy medicated feeds like this in the US though. When I buy a bag of the stuff it's enough to do my 8 chickens and the 10 chickens I keep where I work too


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## dawg53

Flubendazole aka Flubenvet is a very good wormer, no egg withdrawal. It's not sold in the U.S.
Good equivalents here in the U.S. would be Rooster Booster Triple wormer and Durvet Strike 3, which is mixed in feed and given for 5 days and no egg withdrawal period. Both have a 3 day slaughter withdrawal.


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## robin416

rich said:


> *Are you sure according to my research it is effective. I agree that there is some debate on the use of DE to control worms. I found it to be effective but that's just me. Maybe I am just lucky not to have a worm problem and happen to use DE.*


I would like to see more information on where you were reading that research. When I went looking the only thing I ever found was reports written by the company looking to sell DE.

I stopped worming my birds years ago. The part of my flock I have left is all over five years old and have been with me since they hatched. It is possible to have a flock with a strong enough immune system to not let an overload to occur.


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## seminole wind

rich said:


> *WOW!!!!
> I haven't seen this much emotion since I knocked over the outhouse with my tractor!
> Nothing like a lively debate to get the juices flowing. LOL*


YEA, lively debates are great!!! Need to see more of them.


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## casportpony

seminolewind said:


> YEA, lively debates are great!!! Need to see more of them.


They get me in trouble on other forums.


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## dawg53

casportpony said:


> They get me in trouble on other forums.


Hahahaha! You and me both LOL. For me it's usually telling it like it is without being "nice" and not politically correct. "Nice" and politically correct are irrevelant when it comes to helping someone with sick chickens. I consider it a serious/grave matter...no time for playing silly games.


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## rich

*That's why we are all here. The outcast club!*


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## casportpony

I think those that know me know that I almost always mean well and really do care about people and their animals, right? It's impossible for me to write in a warm a fuzzy way when it comes to explaining how I treat my birds and mammals. 

It's true that there have been a couple of times when I did not mean well, lol, mainly because the posters were posting mis-information. 

Buttons of mine are DE, oxine, pumpkin seeds, grapefruit seed extract, garlic, ivermectin, 3cc Safeguard in the water, medicated feed and waterfowl, incorrect dosing, verm-x, etc.


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## casportpony

rich said:


> *That's why we are all here. The outcast club!*


Are you an outcast on other forums?


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## dawg53

casportpony said:


> I think those that know me know that I almost always mean well and really do care about people and their animals, right? It's impossible for me to write in a warm a fuzzy way when it comes to explaining how I treat my birds and mammals.
> 
> It's true that there have been a couple of times when I did not mean well, lol, mainly because the posters were posting mis-information.
> 
> Buttons of mine are DE, oxine, pumpkin seeds, grapefruit seed extract, garlic, ivermectin, 3cc Safeguard in the water, medicated feed and waterfowl, incorrect dosing, verm-x, etc.


I can say with absolute certainty that you DO have others peoples' animals in your best interest and will bend over backwards to help them in any way possible.


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## seminole wind

With Rich the mods pushed the flush button not realizing he was a paying advertiser. (Oops!)

Casportpony seemed to be one who was targeted by snitches and the mods loved being mean to her. 

I left due to some political BS and seeing first hand what admin is really all about. I also got real tired of them targeting Casportpony. Dawg and Michael, IMO , are two of the most informative people and getting their hands slapped for BS. So much for valued members. 

I think Casportpony was targeted by a few members and a few mods due to sheer jealousy of how many people liked her and took her advice over others' many times. So I find out there were other members that were driven off most likely for their popularity.


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## seminole wind

casportpony said:


> They get me in trouble on other forums.


I do believe that members here can have lively debates, be informative, and even popular, and are welcome to do so.


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## rich

*Yes I am an outcast I can't say from what sight so we will just use a few random initials. Lets use byc from here on for our fictitious name. LOL 
*


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## rich

seminolewind said:


> I do believe that members here can have lively debates, be informative, and even popular, and are welcome to do so.


*I believe that there is nothing wrong with a lively debate. We all have something to learn. Just because I do something one way and you another we are not enemies. There's always the possibility we are both right. The other is I could be wrong. The idea of it is to express your opinion but still be respectful. I try to give the most honest common sense replays I can. I always try to consider the other point of view. That does not mean I agree but to be fair you have to consider it. Here's hoping we can have more debates that keep you on the edge of your seat.
Respectfully Rich *


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## seminole wind

"outcast" may be the name or label society uses, but being an outcast I prefer to refer to myself as "Renegade". 

New quote I learned today: You can't fix stupid , but you can certainly muffle it with duct tape.


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## dawg53

I like Mark Twain's quote:
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.


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## artsy1

seeing some familiar faces here... 

on worming, what about prohibit? adding to the water rather than individual doses??


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## seminole wind

I think I know you from somewhere.......I wonder where?

What is Prohibit? It would be just too easy to get a wormer that goes in the water that kills all the worms.


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## artsy1

seminolewind said:


> I think I know you from somewhere.......I wonder where?
> 
> What is Prohibit? It would be just too easy to get a wormer that goes in the water that kills all the worms.


artsyrobin in that other forum..LOL!

Prohibit is Levamisole - and is a water soluble wormer - here is the info I have on it 









here is a link for deeper info on it http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2499&Itemid=2771


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## Nm156

http://www.agrilabs.com/documents/PLProhibit Soluble Drench Powder.pdf
I don't see where it is approved for poultry.


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## dawg53

Levamisole is a good wormer. It's easy to overdose, more is NOT better when using it. Personally I prefer not to use wormers that are mixed in water simply because you dont know if your birds will drink enough of it to be effective. Additionally sick wormy birds dont drink at all. Withholding water and feed prior to birds going to roost for the night would most likely solve the drinking problem because birds are thirsty and hungry the next morning. I would withhold feed in the morning and let them drink the treated water all they want. This would be especially effective when dealing with gapeworms, levamisole is more effective treating gapeworms because it gets quicker into the bloodstream than benzimidazoles.


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## dawg53

Nm156 said:


> http://www.agrilabs.com/documents/PLProhibit Soluble Drench Powder.pdf
> I don't see where it is approved for poultry.


It is off label use like many other wormers for poultry.


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## artsy1

dawg53 said:


> It is off label use like many other wormers for poultry.


i think the only 'appoved' wormer in the US is wazine - the internet is dangerous you know, research approved meds in other country's also- you get a different list of approved meds, particularly the UK and Australia-

good point on the problem with water based treatments-


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## casportpony

Where did you find this picture?


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## MichaelA69

Certain anthelmintics used to treat water may be reliable in hot weather when birds drink more, but agree direct dosing is best.


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## casportpony

I'd like to try an experiment using Prohibit on some of my roosters. 

-Kathy


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## artsy1

tried to message the info, but your box is full...tsk tsk!!

here is the link for MSU

http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/solutions.html


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## casportpony

Let me start by saying that I don't think that ivermectin is a good wormer for poultry, but did you know that there is a water soluble ivermectin? I know that the cattle products are not water soluble, but I think that the one for horses is water soluble.
http://caribbean.merial.com/equine/Products/Pages/eqvalan_liquid.aspx


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## artsy1

casportpony said:


> Where did you find this picture?
> View attachment 19145


i put it together from the dose info from MSU and image so i can access it on my phone-


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## casportpony

artsy1 said:


> i put it together from the dose info from MSU and image so i can access it on my phone-


Sorry! Okay, so with that info and some info I found in a pigeon formulary I think I will try to calculate a per gallon dose using teaspoons.


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## casportpony

Source: http://www3.telus.net/npaw/gchf03.html


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## seminole wind

artsy1 said:


> tried to message the info, but your box is full...tsk tsk!!
> 
> here is the link for MSU
> 
> http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/solutions.html


I knew you were artsyrobin!


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## seminole wind

casportpony said:


> I'd like to try an experiment using Prohibit on some of my roosters.
> 
> -Kathy


That would be cool, Kathy


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## seminole wind

casportpony said:


> Source: http://www3.telus.net/npaw/gchf03.html
> View attachment 19147


Since I had a silkie hen die from capilaria (sp?) as per necropsy, I would not want to use anything that may allow that again due to inadequate dosing.


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## casportpony

seminolewind said:


> Since I had a silkie hen die from capilaria (sp?) as per necropsy, I would not want to use anything that may allow that again due to inadequate dosing.


Same here... these roosters a for sale as meat roosters, so it doesn't really matter. For birds I care about, it's Safeguard. 

Anyone want to see what intestines with capillary worm damage might look like?


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## artsy1

casportpony said:


> Same here... these roosters a for sale as meat roosters, so it doesn't really matter. For birds I care about, it's Safeguard.
> 
> Anyone want to see what intestines with capillary worm damage might look like?


i hate guessing dosages, there is so many 'suggestions' out there that is killing birds- so when you figure that dose - let us know! For now i alternate between safeguard and valbazen

Yep Seminole just me- i much prefer here to there..


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## casportpony

artsy1 said:


> i hate guessing dosages, there is so many 'suggestions' out there that is killing birds- so when you figure that dose - let us know! For now i alternate between safeguard and valbazen
> 
> Yep Seminole just me- i much prefer here to there..


I'm pretty darn anal retentive when it comes to dosing, so I will do lots of homework and math before I post an amount.


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## seminole wind

casportpony said:


> I'm pretty darn anal retentive when it comes to dosing, so I will do lots of homework and math before I post an amount.


At least you won't get your hand slapped over it.


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## seminole wind

I have to say that I've gotten away from "drinking on your honor". Michael's right, sick birds may not drink enough. Due to Casportpony, I can mix meds in a gallon and tube an appropriate amount of water (ml's/pound/day.) There are just too many variables to doses and moreso with meds in water. I have discovered that Tylan injectable is cheaper that Tylan powder, and Tylan is very good for killing a number of microbes.


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## casportpony

Even healthy birds drink different amounts. Don't quote me on this, but I think non laying chickens drink 5% of their weigh per day, laying hens it's 13-15%, and chicks it's 18-20%. Of course weather and health can increase or decrease these numbers.

With that in mind, think about all the people that have tried Safeguard at 3 cc/gallon. Then calculate how much of that 3 cc a non-laying bird will actuall get. And then they wonder why their birds have worms. Sigh...


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## MichaelA69

Some effective broad spectrum dewormers to consider that are safe for use in poultry, all best to be used once, and again 10 days later:

Valbazen .25 cc for a Bantam, .50 cc for LF

Galliverm Super contains Fenbendazole and Albendazole: 1 tab for LF and a half tab for Bantams

Trifen Plus contains Abamectin and Albendazole: 1 tab for bantams and 2 tabs for LF. 

Endovet Gallos contains Praziquantel if tapeworms are a problem.

Zimectrin Gold is a horse wormer paste which contains Praziquantel also. It is dosed a BB sized amount for Bantams and a pea sized amount for LF.

It is best to avoid deworming before or after a complete moult.


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## seminole wind

Michael I went here http://gamebirdsupplies.com/ and bought Trifen. (Valbazen in a pill, LOL). That might be easier to hide than bread cubes soaked in valbazen.


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## dawg53

seminolewind said:


> I have to say that I've gotten away from "drinking on your honor". Michael's right, sick birds may not drink enough. Due to Casportpony, I can mix meds in a gallon and tube an appropriate amount of water (ml's/pound/day.) There are just too many variables to doses and moreso with meds in water. I have discovered that Tylan injectable is cheaper that Tylan powder, and Tylan is very good for killing a number of microbes.


Agreed. Tylan injectable is more effective and can be easily administered, no guesswork about it.


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## casportpony

casportpony said:


> Even healthy birds drink different amounts. Don't quote me on this, but I think non laying chickens drink 5% of their weigh per day, laying hens it's 13-15%, and chicks it's 18-20%. Of course weather and health can increase or decrease these numbers.
> 
> With that in mind, think about all the people that have tried Safeguard at 3 cc/gallon. Then calculate how much of that 3 cc a non-laying bird will actuall get. And then they wonder why their birds have worms. Sigh...


Here is the data I found:


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## artsy1

quick question i got from someone using ivomec for wormer- it is limited right? Didn't you have a link on studies showing it is not effective??


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## casportpony

artsy1 said:


> quick question i got from someone using ivomec for wormer- it is limited right? Didn't you have a link on studies showing it is not effective??


Two studies I know of... One says that when a safe amount is used that it's not an effective wormer. The other study says that when *massive* doses are used it is effective.


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## dawg53

I've used ivermectin pour on in the past to worm my birds. About six weeks later I observed a couple of my birds excreting large roundworms. Unfortunately worms have built resistance to ivomec products due to its overuse as a miteacide in poultry. Even northern fowl mites have developed resistance to ivomec products.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0450.1989.tb00635.x/abstract
http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2540&Itemid=2816


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## artsy1

dawg53 said:


> I've used ivermectin pour on in the past to worm my birds. About six weeks later I observed a couple of my birds excreting large roundworms. Unfortunately worms have built resistance to ivomec products due to its overuse as a miteacide in poultry. Even northern fowl mites have developed resistance to ivomec products.
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0450.1989.tb00635.x/abstract
> http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2540&Itemid=2816


ok thanks! i have noticed that with the mites too, my seramas have had a chronic battle- what other options for mites? Frontline?


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## seminole wind

Doesn't poultry dust work for mites?


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## dawg53

I've used Sevin dust successfully before, until my recent encounter having a small problem with lice and a few red mites. The sevin dust did NOT work. I then purchased poultry dust containing permethrin and it worked great. I then used Advantage; one drop on bare skin on the back of the neck on each bird. Permethrin also comes in a concentrated liquid as well as a premix. Dont forget to treat the inside of their house including nests and roosts. 
I've never used Frontline but have heard of other folks using it with success.


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## casportpony

dawg53 said:


> I've used Sevin dust successfully before, until my recent encounter having a small problem with lice and a few red mites. The sevin dust did NOT work. I then purchased poultry dust containing permethrin and it worked great. I then used Advantage; one drop on bare skin on the back of the neck on each bird. Permethrin also comes in a concentrated liquid as well as a premix. Dont forget to treat the inside of their house including nests and roosts.
> I've never used Frontline but have heard of other folks using it with success.


UC Davis published something about Northern Fowl Mites in CA being resistant to carbaryl.


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## dawg53

casportpony said:


> UC Davis published something about Northern Fowl Mites in CA being resistant to carbaryl.


I dont doubt it. It sure was a surprise to me that it didnt take care of the lice at the very least, much less the red mites! I've never had any previous problems using sevin dust.


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## SuzieAuvergne

I have always had great results from permethrin...I buy it here in France..both powder form for the birds and the liquid ( which has to be diluted ) for the coop/nesting boxes...

I had a horrendous problem with mites earlier this year...treated everywhere and still they appeared as if from nowhere..until one day I had taken the hanging feeders outside to give them a thorough cleaning...I had mites crawling all over my hands..the mites were living in the hollow metal tube that hangs the feeders...I am not exaggerating...there were thousands of them...after using permethrin they came out of the tube like a cloud...dead and dying...as one of you great people here has said...forewarned is forearmed...now who was that ?

I love this site...seeing more familiar names too!


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## dawg53

SuzieAuvergne said:


> I have always had great results from permethrin...I buy it here in France..both powder form for the birds and the liquid ( which has to be diluted ) for the coop/nesting boxes...
> 
> I had a horrendous problem with mites earlier this year...treated everywhere and still they appeared as if from nowhere..until one day I had taken the hanging feeders outside to give them a thorough cleaning...I had mites crawling all over my hands..the mites were living in the hollow metal tube that hangs the feeders...I am not exaggerating...there were thousands of them...after using permethrin they came out of the tube like a cloud...dead and dying...as one of you great people here has said...forewarned is forearmed...now who was that ?
> 
> I love this site...seeing more familiar names too!


"Forewarned is Forearmed," yeah, I wonder who said that? LOL. Thanks Suzie. 
The mites mustve come from wild birds. You're right, permethrin works.


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## artsy1

dawg53 said:


> I've used Sevin dust successfully before, until my recent encounter having a small problem with lice and a few red mites. The sevin dust did NOT work. I then purchased poultry dust containing permethrin and it worked great. I then used Advantage; one drop on bare skin on the back of the neck on each bird. Permethrin also comes in a concentrated liquid as well as a premix. Dont forget to treat the inside of their house including nests and roosts.
> I've never used Frontline but have heard of other folks using it with success.


which advantage is that?


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## dawg53

Advantage ll for dogs.


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## seminole wind

dawg53 said:


> Advantage ll for dogs.


Isn't that a systemic? Is that one safe for human consumption?


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## dawg53

I've been eating the eggs (nice cheese omelet for lunch today lol)...I'm still here!


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## Feline

Flubenvet powder has been unavailable here for months- but is now for sale again. I am going to stock up!
I was able to buy medicated layers pellets even when it wasn't freely available so I guess I am still very lucky compared to some countries where you can't get it. I think my broody silkies probably didn't eat enough medicated feed to worm themselves though.


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## dawg53

Flubenvet is a good wormer, glad you can get it.


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## artsy1

anyone figure out dosing small flocks with prohibit? rather than mixing the whole pack up?


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## seminole wind

What's Prohibit?


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## artsy1

supposed to be the only water soluble wormer, but need dosing for small flocks- i use valbazen but am being asked about dosing, according to MSU, you mix a whole pack with 3 qts water, then take an ounce of that and add to a gallon for treating??


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## Nm156

deleted -- read post wrong


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## dawg53

I've never used Levamisole. This is all I could find:
http://www.littlevalleypoultry.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=65


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## artsy1

ok thanks!


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## casportpony

Do you have a gram scale? If not, I think you can assume that one level teaspoon weighs ~2.7 to 3.3 grams.


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## artsy1

casportpony said:


> Do you have a gram scale? If not, I think you can assume that one level teaspoon weighs ~2.7 to 3.3 grams.


converter online says 5 grams to 1 teaspoon?

so here are the directions-thisis saying you add 5 grams to 8 litres or 1 teaspoon to 2 gallons? double checking my brain here- this is fromthe link dawg posted


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## seminole wind

I've heard of it and it's not been around for a long time. I will certainly use it because it works against capillaria. Do you see me jumping up and down?


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## seminole wind

Okay bought it on Ebay for $26.00 free shipping. for 52 grams.

Foy's pigeons 100 grams for 16.00

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/medications/worms-wormers/2523-levamisole-powde

So they have 10 wormers for pigeons. Maybe now I can rotate ?


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## artsy1

i have just been in a big battle with those dang capilarria, valbazen has knocked them out- but i lost a couple hens before i knew what was going on, been touch and go on a couple little serama roos, but they are recuperating- i was told valbazen, 3 doses, 3 weeks apart, and it worked, but also will be getting fecals 2 weeks after the last treatment, and advised another fecal 2 weeks after that- and am on a crusade telling people get fecals for cryin out loud- my mistake, brought in 3 pairs of seramas, from a friend- the hens were pale, should have suspected something, they faded away, they had been in quarantine,- but not worming- lesson learned- so Dwight and Peeps are recouperating- but they were very sick little guys


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## dawg53

seminolewind said:


> I've heard of it and it's not been around for a long time. I will certainly use it because it works against capillaria. Do you see me jumping up and down?


Levamisole is the preferred wormer against gapeworm just for your info. According to a verified reliable source; levamisole gets into the bloodstream quicker than other wormers. For gapeworms; levamisole and other wormers require higher doses every 3 days for up to 18 days.


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## dawg53

Artsy1. The soil they are on is mostly likely contaminated with capillary worm eggs. They will probably keep picking them up continuing the worms lifecycle. Monthly wormings will eventually stop the worms lifecycle, but it will take a long time. 
My advice would be to rotate wormers and worm monthly. Safeguard liquid goat wormer given 1/2cc orally for 5 days straight will work. 
Pyrantel pamoate equine paste, a small pea sized amount given orally for 5 days straight will work also.
Worm them early in the mornings before feeding them. Water is ok. After you worm them, wait about 3-4 hours before feeding them. Feed them a little at a time to prevent gorging and possible impactation, gradually increase feed during the day back to normal. Repeat this each day when you worm them.


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## artsy1

what i haven't figured out with this group- they were supposedly inside birds before i got them, now a few of my seramas have them, coarse after quarantine they were integrated as trios- so all of my inside birds now have been exposed- clearing that out- but since these are inside birds, is it possible to permanently eradicate the worm cycle?


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## seminole wind

You too? I lost a silkie hen to capillaria. She was wormed but not wormed twice 10 days apart. So now i feel that i need to treat for that as well. I've been trying .5 ml valbazen in a cube of bread and get some, then i get the rest at night with a flashlight. I should get hubby involved. Dawg, what can people do if they have many birds?? That Levamisol is a known immune system booster- and i can certainly use that. 

Foy's has a bunch of wormers to add to water. Do you think it works for chickens? Any of them?


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## dawg53

seminolewind said:


> You too? I lost a silkie hen to capillaria. She was wormed but not wormed twice 10 days apart. So now i feel that i need to treat for that as well. I've been trying .5 ml valbazen in a cube of bread and get some, then i get the rest at night with a flashlight. I should get hubby involved. Dawg, what can people do if they have many birds?? That Levamisol is a known immune system booster- and i can certainly use that.
> 
> Foy's has a bunch of wormers to add to water. Do you think it works for chickens? Any of them?


Levamisole does boost the immune system against certain cancers, but a side effect is that it leaves a low white blood cell count (in humans)...darned if you do and darned if you dont.
A person can own 100 birds. There's nothing saying that ALL 100 need to be wormed in one day. Twenty five birds can easily be wormed each day for a total of 4 days straight. Once each bird is wormed, put a leg band on each wormed bird and release them. Birds without a leg band will be easily identified needing to be wormed.
Another way to worm birds is by breed: RIR's, BR's wormed the first day...EE's, sex links the second day, banty's and serama's the third day, stragglers/mixes the fourth day...as examples.
Wormers added to water is hit and miss; sick wormy birds cut back on eating and drinking, or dont eat or drink at all. This means that the birds dont drink enough of the treated water to be effective or simply dont drink it at all.
Secondly; during cool or cold temperatures, birds drink less water. This means they wont drink enough of the treated water to be effective.
This is why I worm each bird orally, individually, one at a time. There's no guesswork if a bird was or wasnt properly wormed. 
I forgot to add that I also give each bird a quick inspection before worming them ie; external parasites, poopy butt, unseen injuries, feet etc...


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## chickenqueen

Hey Dawg!I didn't know chickens got worms until 2 yrs ago.The feed store only had wazeene or something like that,so I wormed everybody according to directions.I haven't done it again.Should I do this on a regular basis and what is a good wormer?I have never seen worms again but I know that doesn't mean anything.


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## casportpony

artsy1 said:


> converter online says 5 grams to 1 teaspoon?
> 
> so here are the directions-thisis saying you add 5 grams to 8 litres or 1 teaspoon to 2 gallons? double checking my brain here- this is fromthe link dawg posted


Common mistake... 0ne teaspoon of water weighs 5 grams, but almost all powders will be 2.7-3.3 grams per teaspoon.

Did you know that one teaspoon of Mercury weighs ~67 grams? crazy, yes?

Here is a picture I took of 3.5 tablespoons of corn starch. If I had weighed 3.5 tablespoons of water it would have weighed 52.5 grams. 








One teaspoon of corn starch weighs 2.64 grams. Make sense?


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## casportpony

Corid powder weighs 2.7-3.3 grams per teaspoon.
Tylan powder weighs 2.5-2.7 grams per teaspoon.
Duramycin 10 powder weighs 3-3.3 grams per teaspoon.
SulfaMed-G weighs 3 grams per teaspoon.


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## casportpony

If the dose is 5 grams per 8 liters, I think the math looks like this:

5 grams / 8 liters = 0.625 grams per liter.
One gallon is 3.785 liters, so it's 3.785 x 0.625 = 2.36 grams per US gallon (128 ounces).

Per gallon dose is probably just under one teaspoon.


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## casportpony

dawg53 said:


> Levamisole does boost the immune system against certain cancers, but a side effect is that it leaves a low white blood cell count (in humans)...darned if you do and darned if you dont.
> A person can own 100 birds. There's nothing saying that ALL 100 need to be wormed in one day. Twenty five birds can easily be wormed each day for a total of 4 days straight. Once each bird is wormed, put a leg band on each wormed bird and release them. Birds without a leg band will be easily identified needing to be wormed.
> Another way to worm birds is by breed: RIR's, BR's wormed the first day...EE's, sex links the second day, banty's and serama's the third day, stragglers/mixes the fourth day...as examples.
> Wormers added to water is hit and miss; sick wormy birds cut back on eating and drinking, or dont eat or drink at all. This means that the birds dont drink enough of the treated water to be effective or simply dont drink it at all.
> Secondly; during cool or cold temperatures, birds drink less water. This means they wont drink enough of the treated water to be effective.
> This is why I worm each bird orally, individually, one at a time. There's no guesswork if a bird was or wasnt properly wormed.
> I forgot to add that I also give each bird a quick inspection before worming them ie; external parasites, poopy butt, unseen injuries, feet etc...


Add roosters and non-laying hens drink less than laying hens, and laying hens drink less than growing birds.


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## dawg53

chickenqueen said:


> Hey Dawg!I didn't know chickens got worms until 2 yrs ago.The feed store only had wazeene or something like that,so I wormed everybody according to directions.I haven't done it again.Should I do this on a regular basis and what is a good wormer?I have never seen worms again but I know that doesn't mean anything.


Wazine only gets rid of large roundworms. Chickens can get many types of worms, a broad spectrum wormer is best. Valbazen, safeguard, pyrantel pamoate are very good broad spectrum wormers and relatively inexpensive. 
Spring time is worm time. It's best to worm birds early in the spring just before egg production picks up. Large roundworms cause the most internal damage in chicks and pullets effecting egg production throughout the rest of their lives.


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## chickenqueen

Thanks Dawg!I'll be worming in a couple of months then.Do you do it just in the spring or do you do worm in the fall,too?


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## dawg53

chickenqueen said:


> Thanks Dawg!I'll be worming in a couple of months then.Do you do it just in the spring or do you do worm in the fall,too?


How often you worm depends your soil conditions. Warm moist or wet soil may require frequent wormings. Cool or cold type soils may require less frequent wormings. Hot desert like soil may require less frequent wormings, same with rocky or mountainous soils.
Here where I live, our soil is warm and moist/wet most of the year. I worm monthly. I wormed monthly when I lived in southeast Georgia as well.
I normally dont recommend worming in the fall when birds start their molt. Molt is stressful, worming may increase stress on the birds system. Worm birds before molt. If worming is necessary during molt, I recommend valbazen. It will not effect feather regrowth and is a very safe wormer.


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## casportpony

60 ml bottle of Valbazen for $14.95 plus shipping
https://www.wholesalekennel.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=29


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## casportpony

500 ml bottle of Valbazen for $43.63 plus shipping
http://www.jefferspet.com/products/valbazen-broad-spectrum-dewormer


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## seminole wind

casportpony said:


> 60 ml bottle of valbazen for $14.95 plus shipping
> https://www.wholesalekennel.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=29


are you kidding? I will have to look and order some.


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## seminole wind

Dawg, as you were saying that Levamisole is an immune boost against certain cancers . Marek's is actually a cancer. I wonder if it would help boost an immune system of a Marek's exposed bird. I am not saying protect them from Marek's. But my exposed chickens are prone to all kinds of things, and I'm forever standing guard over some illness that comes by.


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## dawg53

seminolewind said:


> are you kidding? I will have to look and order some.


I thought you already had some Karen? I dont know if levamisole will work on chicken cancers. Levamisole is metabolized rather quickly and expelled.


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## casportpony

seminolewind said:


> Dawg, as you were saying that Levamisole is an immune boost against certain cancers . Marek's is actually a cancer. I wonder if it would help boost an immune system of a Marek's exposed bird. I am not saying protect them from Marek's. But my exposed chickens are prone to all kinds of things, and I'm forever standing guard over some illness that comes by.


Google "levamisole avian medicine" and see if it's used that way in birds.


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## seminole wind

Well I read about it and it says that it boosts the immune system. That sounds good to me. I wasn't saying that it works against cancers, but the immunosuppression from Marek's exposure, which is what my concern is. That could use a help!


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## artsy1

well i have a new one, have a foster crossbeak hen- been here a few months, just wormed yesterday with valbazen, so today dark greenish turquoise poop, yes passing roundworms, but also got one out of her mouth?? never seen that happen


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## casportpony

artsy1 said:


> well i have a new one, have a foster crossbeak hen- been here a few months, just wormed yesterday with valbazen, so today dark greenish turquoise poop, yes passing roundworms, but also got one out of her mouth?? never seen that happen


I've seen cats barf up roundworms, but never seen a chicken do it. Interesting...

-Kathy


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## artsy1

casportpony said:


> I've seen cats barf up roundworms, but never seen a chicken do it. Interesting...
> 
> -Kathy


seriously- she will spit water, i think something to do with her crossbeak- she plays in the water-could she have them in her crop?

tonight mucousy mouth, drinking water but not interested in food


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## seminole wind

artsy1 said:


> well i have a new one, have a foster crossbeak hen- been here a few months, just wormed yesterday with valbazen, so today dark greenish turquoise poop, yes passing roundworms, but also got one out of her mouth?? never seen that happen


That is really awful . I hope she survives.


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## seminole wind

artsy1 said:


> seriously- she will spit water, i think something to do with her crossbeak- she plays in the water-could she have them in her crop?
> 
> tonight mucousy mouth, drinking water but not interested in food


how did you get a chicken like that? Maybe some tube feedings to jump start her?


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## artsy1

i have 3 crossbeaks, they do ok eating wise, but nug(and her best buddy, a serama) is staying with us while her owner gets a new place, well that was in august, and she is still here...LOL! Anyway- since she has been here she has put on weight, but this has thrown me for a loop- the mucous- i went ahead and put her on tylan tonight- when i got her she was very thin, so i feed in deep dishes and supplement with a product called dyne, high calorie, and scrambled eggs- she did eat tonight


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## dawg53

She mustve really been infested with worms. I've seen worm infested dogs puke worms with mucus. It's sickening. I dont think the tylan will do any good unless she has some type of respiratory problem, although chickens weakened by worms opens the door for diseases.
The valbazen will take care of the worms over several days and I'm glad you used it. Any other wormer wouldve possibly caused a massive die off causing an intestinal blockage, the toxins from the dead worms wouldve killed her. I recommend that you reworm her with valbazen in 10-14 days.


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## artsy1

dawg53 said:


> She mustve really been infested with worms. I've seen worm infested dogs puke worms with mucus. It's sickening. I dont think the tylan will do any good unless she has some type of respiratory problem, although chickens weakened by worms opens the door for diseases.
> The valbazen will take care of the worms over several days and I'm glad you used it. Any other wormer wouldve possibly caused a massive die off causing an intestinal blockage, the toxins from the dead worms wouldve killed her. I recommend that you reworm her with valbazen in 10-14 days.


yes valbazen has been my go to wormer since you helped me with the eyeworm bird- checked this morning and very little mucous, seeing very little solids in the poop over night, but since she didn't eat much last night that is to be expected?

i really think i made the mistake alot of people do on worms, not dealing with it- in her case, i hadn't wormed her since she got here, she has been with her friend, but not anywhere near my birds- her owner hadn't fed her consistently because she liked bird seed more than crumble - so i doubt shed been wormed too


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## dawg53

If you can, give her buttermilk mixed with plain scrambled egg to eat. Buttermilk is a probiotic and is easily absorbed, it also coats intestinal lining. Dont give yogurt, it tends to pass quickly. The scrambled egg is extra protein to help rebuild her strength. Once she starts eating the mixture, you can add boiled plain white rice to it. Try it for a couple of days, then eventually add crumbles. It's not a good situation due being fed bird seed by the prior owner. Then you can slowly wean her off the buttermilk, egg, and rice at your discretion.
Her "friend" will need worming, bet on it.


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## seminole wind

That's quite a gift your friend left! I remember my neighbor came to my door with a BR with a broken leg and I said he should cull her. He took her home and put her back in the coop! So I did go get her and she lived in a sling on my patio for 6 weeks. When she was better, she walked right out to my flock and just invited herself in. I named her Fern and she had quite a personality on her. Let's say overly curious? He thought he was getting her back and I told him that his big rooster would re break her leg but I'll get him a big hen. (Give her back? Seriously?) The big hen laid an egg in my car on the way home and became Clarence the rooster. 

Robin, take crumble and add warm water and make mush and see if she likes that. Mine do back flips for it.


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## artsy1

she finally started eating last night- wet food did the trick- poo is starting to look normal, yes- her friend was wormed also, but didn't have the extreme reaction, talked to her owner, nope never been wormed because they never acted sick, so much misinformation out there on chicken care- 



Love your story on Fern, must have been quite a personality! I end up taking in alot of the special needs-


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## seminole wind

Fern was a sweetheart. She was one I sent for an autopsy when she died. It seems she died from a rare form of liver cancer. The lab actually called me because of the rare-ness.


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