# Realities issues



## mmangan1188 (Jul 25, 2017)

Hello, I'm having issues with a few of my chickens experiencing realities issues gurgling,sneezing,coughing etc. I have isolated the sick chickens and none of the others have come down with symptoms in over 6 days. I'm treating the sick chickens with vetrx and colloidal silver. 3 of 4 have made vast recoveries 1 is still experiencing some issues. Any suggestions? Anybody have success with colloidal silver in the past? I won't use antibiotics so the only other option would be to cull.

The sick chicken that is have recovery issues hasn't stopped laying eggs however which I find strange.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

VetRx is a waste of money, it possess nothing that can heal anything. 

If you refuse to use antibiotics and we don't know what the organism was I doubt there's much we can tell you beyond what you've done. It is not uncommon for a living organism to develop a secondary bacterial infection because of the physical depletion. 

Did you bring new birds in?


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## mmangan1188 (Jul 25, 2017)

robin416 said:


> VetRx is a waste of money, it possess nothing that can heal anything.
> 
> If you refuse to use antibiotics and we don't know what the organism was I doubt there's much we can tell you beyond what you've done. It is not uncommon for a living organism to develop a secondary bacterial infection because of the physical depletion.
> 
> Did you bring new birds in?


Thank you!
I did add new chickens in and I'm positive that's where this came from. I'm pretty positive it's not IB because egg laying hasn't changed or structure of eggs.

Vetrx is pretty useless as a cure but works well on the symptoms.

How long should I wait to put the sick birds back in the clock after symptoms have stopped?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Truth is, they've all been exposed so there is no reason for them to be separate. Chances are very high it's MG which will mean you will have to practice an all in flock management. Bringing in new birds will be a problem they'll just get sick. You can't send any birds to live with anyone else or they'll go through the same thing.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

I agree with Robin, sounds like MG. Birds with MG will be carriers for life, a closed flock is a must. MG can be passed through eggs. No new birds in, no birds out, no eggs sold to be hatched.
Stress will bring out symptoms and antibiotics only mask symptoms. The bacteria builds resistance over time, then a more potent antibiotic is required. The best treatment for MG and MS is Denagard aka Tiamulin. There is no resistance, no egg withdrawal.
You can contact your local extension office, veterinarian, or state dept of agriculture to find out how and where to send off your sickest bird for necropsy if you wish. Then you'll know exactly what you're dealing with.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Hi. I know people mean well and like to abide by more benign or holistic means. I do too. But as with a child with strep throat, some bacteria strains are not formed in nature and cannot be treated with nature. I'm glad it worked for you. I think the rotten part of antibiotics is using them prophylactically or to gain weight quicker, etc. But if a real bacterial ailment is present, it's best to use a specific antibiotic to get rid of it. I would think that's better than culling. 

I may see things differently than you. My birds carry Marek's virus. Which either kills them eventually, or they live with the exposure, which means they are immunosuppressed , which means they are prone to get deadly ailments from common bacteria. In 10 years of just writing off all their ailments as Marek's and not treatable, my last resort is to treat them with an anticoccidial and several antibiotics at once. It has saved many of my birds that I thought were going to die from "Marek's". 

If I culled every bird that's been exposed to Marek's, I would have to cull 24 birds-who are vaccinated and may live full lives . if I also understand that exposed birds will be immunosuppressed as well. 

I'm not trying to change your mind, just give you a different perspective that may help you . With viruses, there's no way to kill it. I hope your last chicken gets better.


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## mmangan1188 (Jul 25, 2017)

seminolewind said:


> Hi. I know people mean well and like to abide by more benign or holistic means. I do too. But as with a child with strep throat, some bacteria strains are not formed in nature and cannot be treated with nature. I'm glad it worked for you. I think the rotten part of antibiotics is using them prophylactically or to gain weight quicker, etc. But if a real bacterial ailment is present, it's best to use a specific antibiotic to get rid of it. I would think that's better than culling.
> 
> I may see things differently than you. My birds carry Marek's virus. Which either kills them eventually, or they live with the exposure, which means they are immunosuppressed , which means they are prone to get deadly ailments from common bacteria. In 10 years of just writing off all their ailments as Marek's and not treatable, my last resort is to treat them with an anticoccidial and several antibiotics at once. It has saved many of my birds that I thought were going to die from "Marek's".
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response. No antibiotics is just a personal preference here. I can't see the point of treating a disease that will only come back. I guess I have some thinking to do here. I'm assuming the general consensus is that it is MG and most likely my whole flock is infected so isolation isn't going to help. I'm going to consider the antibiotics or possibly continue what I'm doing and if any get too sick I will have to euthanize. Thanks again to everybody


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## mmangan1188 (Jul 25, 2017)

mmangan1188 said:


> Thank you for your response. No antibiotics is just a personal preference here. I can't see the point of treating a disease that will only come back. I guess I have some thinking to do here. I'm assuming the general consensus is that it is MG and most likely my whole flock is infected so isolation isn't going to help. I'm going to consider the antibiotics or possibly continue what I'm doing and if any get too sick I will have to euthanize. Thanks again to everybody


One last question are my eggs ok to eat still or should I discard? This is a very upsetting thing for me, we love our chickens. They live a great life here on my 8 acres free range.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Your eggs are safe to eat, dont eat them raw of course. Poultry respiratory diseases are not transmittable to humans including MG.
If you decide to use antibiotics (most likely you'll need a script from a vet due to recent federal rules and regs.) Let us know what you get. Most of us are familiar with withdrawal times for most antibiotics or you can ask your vet.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I hope your chickens recover from what they have. I hate it when they're sick-I'm like a mother hen. 
I think society in general uses to much antibiotics. I used them as a last resort with my daughter growing up and I think she is healthier for it. I think many people get antibiotics for every little sniffle, including viruses which can't be treated with antibiotics, so they sometimes are "sickly" all their lives.

I think you getting eggs is a good sign.


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## catharina.berge (Sep 3, 2017)

seminolewind said:


> Hi. I know people mean well and like to abide by more benign or holistic means. I do too. But as with a child with strep throat, some bacteria strains are not formed in nature and cannot be treated with nature. I'm glad it worked for you. I think the rotten part of antibiotics is using them prophylactically or to gain weight quicker, etc. But if a real bacterial ailment is present, it's best to use a specific antibiotic to get rid of it. I would think that's better than culling.
> 
> I may see things differently than you. My birds carry Marek's virus. Which either kills them eventually, or they live with the exposure, which means they are immunosuppressed , which means they are prone to get deadly ailments from common bacteria. In 10 years of just writing off all their ailments as Marek's and not treatable, my last resort is to treat them with an anticoccidial and several antibiotics at once. It has saved many of my birds that I thought were going to die from "Marek's".
> 
> ...


I agree, antibiotics is the best solution to cure bacterial disease. Antibiotics are derived from natural products found in nature, created by yeasts and soil bacteria, so just because they are purified and refined by man does not make them artificial. Only use them to treat disease, never to prevent disease.


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## mmangan1188 (Jul 25, 2017)

catharina.berge said:


> I agree, antibiotics is the best solution to cure bacterial disease. Antibiotics are derived from natural products found in nature, created by yeasts and soil bacteria, so just because they are purified and refined by man does not make them artificial. Only use them to treat disease, never to prevent disease.


Update, chickens much better two have been put back with the others after 3 weeks with no symptoms. One is still sneezing a bit but congestion is gone.

Funny story I haven't had eggs from my other chickens in over two weeks. I happened to leave them in the coop until 11a yesterday and had two eggs. Later in the day I was working on my porch and found 16 eggs right under my front door! I went out and bought new food, calcium etc and the whole time they where just hiding the eggs..


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Very funny! I had that happen a few years ago, and wonder about the "no eggs" today. Haven't had eggs from one coop in a month or so. I keep looking, but can't find anything.


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## mmangan1188 (Jul 25, 2017)

seminolewind said:


> Very funny! I had that happen a few years ago, and wonder about the "no eggs" today. Haven't had eggs from one coop in a month or so. I keep looking, but can't find anything.


Now that I took them yesterday from under porch they are laying in the coop again. I'm avg 4 eggs a day from 3 golden comets. The one I let out of isolation Thursday is already laying. Can't believe the production..


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## mmangan1188 (Jul 25, 2017)

Hello Y'all! My ladies are doing much better all are out of cage. Some are sneezing occasionally but seem very healthy. There combs are bright red and they are all lively. They're all laying and have very healthy characteristics. 

I treated them as follows
1. Vet RX daily
2. 2ccs of 30PPM colloidal silver
3. Aconite two 30c tabs once per day 
4. Table scraps


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Looks like your recipe and TLC are working. How nice!


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

I had to look up Aconite, never heard of it.
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supp...IngredientId=609&activeIngredientName=ACONITE

Personally, I'd never use it, nor for any animals due to side effects.

Just a reminder/warning for you mmangan. Your birds may look healthy now, but the fact is respiratory diseases in poultry never go away. They can be treated, but not cured. 
If your birds somehow get stressed, you'll see symptoms again.


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## mmangan1188 (Jul 25, 2017)

dawg53 said:


> I had to look up Aconite, never heard of it.
> https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supp...IngredientId=609&activeIngredientName=ACONITE
> 
> Personally, I'd never use it, nor for any animals due to side effects.
> ...


Dawg, I appreciate your insight but many common medicines are technically poisonous. It's all about the dose and length of use. I'm using a brand that's sold at Walgreens and controlled dosage. I would never use the actual plant or tinctures. I believe we have to be careful with any medicine we use.


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## mmangan1188 (Jul 25, 2017)

seminolewind said:


> Looks like your recipe and TLC are working. How nice!


Seminole, it has worked they where near death prior to use. I honestly can believe they came
back from it. It was a very sad thing, I made a lot of mistakes being this is my first time keeping chickens. The weird thing about it is some have it and some don't. I can't put my finger on exactly what this is though I am thinking MG.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

You're absolutely correct, and that's true for all meds.
However for mycoplasma diseases in poultry, your best bet would be Denagard (Tiamulin.)
QC Supply sells it. There is no egg withdrawal nor resistance to the product. Check it out and read the reviews if you get the chance. Good luck.


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## mmangan1188 (Jul 25, 2017)

dawg53 said:


> You're absolutely correct, and that's true for all meds.
> However for mycoplasma diseases in poultry, your best bet would be Denagard (Tiamulin.)
> QC Supply sells it. There is no egg withdrawal nor resistance to the product. Check it out and read the reviews if you get the chance. Good luck.


Thank you for the info Dawg I will consider it if the situation progress any. As of now they all seem to be doing ok.

See the free rangers club!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

MG does not normally kill a healthy bird but can make them very sick. The birds can never be sent anywhere else to live because they will carry the hidden disease with them. You will have to use caution when visiting others with chickens and anyone that has chickens visits you. Basically to protect others flocks you need to practice quarantine for the rest of the birds' lives.

Tiamulin has been reported to cure them of the infection. The only drug out there that anyone has even hinted at it being a cure.


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