# Sticky  How to Provide Emergency Supportive Care



## casportpony

You've just discovered your bird is sick... Now what? In this post/thread I will attempt to describe how *I* deal with the mildly sick to critically ill bird when I cannot consult with a vet. Topics covered will be:
Identifying a sick bird
Stabilization
Hospital cage setup
Exams
Poop inspection
Oral fluid therapy
Subcutaneous fluid therapy
Gavage feeding
Choosing medications

Step one is to determine how sick the bird is. When outside, how does it look, sound and act? Stand back in a place where they can't see you and watch them. These are the signs I look for:
Weight loss in adult birds and youngsters
Lack of weight gain in youngsters
Standing with eyes closed
Discoloration or change of comb, wattles or caruncles
Wings drooping
Fluffed feathers
Head tucked in
Wobbly gait or limping
Not interested in food/treats
Not roosting
Roosting early
Roosting longer than others
Hanging out alone
Vocal changes
Behavioral changes of any type
Sitting when others are not
Panting or open mouth breathing 
Abnormal droppings
Nasal/eye discharge
Facial swelling
Raspy breathing
If laying, have all eggs been normal

Once you've identified a sick bird you will need to examine it. This is where it gets a little tricky, 'cause often examining a critically ill bird is enough to send it over the edge
Stabilizing the sick bird
Start by placing the bird in a warm room, and slowly correct the hypothermia. If responsive, give warmed fluids at 20ml/kg and repeat in 60-90 min if crop has cleared. 
The Exam
Bring inside where it's warm and get a baseline weight.
Check for mites, lice, ticks, maggots, etc.
Check *entire* body for swellings, cuts, bruising, fractures, etc.
Check range of motion in legs and wings 
Check eyes, mouth for abnormalities (odor, discharge, pus swelling, etc,)
If it's of laying age, check for stuck egg.
Temp of body, and legs - are they hot, warm or cold?

Poop inspection
Birds have two type of poop and they're what I call regular poop and cecal poop. Regular poops are the ones the do most often and cecal poop are the stinky, creamy ones that they do a couple of time a day, usually morning and evening. It's important to get to know what normal poop looks and smells like.

The Hospital Cage
Sick birds are almost always hypothermic, so it's very important to place them in a warm, quiet draft free room where you can maintain the temperature of the cage at at least 80 degrees. Be careful when using heat lamps or heating pads because many birds are too sick to move away from the heat if they're too hot.

Wound Care

Injections

-Kathy

Disclaimer - Always best to consult with a vet and please understand that I have no medical training!

Find and avian vet in your area here:
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
http://www.majesticwaterfowl.org/vetfinder.htm

This is a work in progress, please check back for updates!

Anyone wanna help write this? Looking for volunteers to write a paragraph or two about a few subjects. Of course you will be given full credit for anything you write.

For example, it would be really helpful if someone could write up some suggestion for making a hospital cage and go into some detail about why the heat is necessary. If you don't know, I could try to explain it as well as provide some links for you to read.

Also need one for basic wound care. Something that describes how to debride, flush, clean, wrap, etc.

References I use:
http://avianmedicine.net/publication_cat/avian-medicine/
http://avianmedicine.net/publication_cat/clinical-avian-medicine/
http://avianmedicine.net/publication_cat/avian-examiner/
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/cahfs/about/publications/cahfs_connection.cfm

The AAAP Avian Disease Manual
Veterinary Parasitology Reference Manual
Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook
Diseases of Poultry
The Merck Veterinary Manual

From this link: 
http://www.fvmace.org/FVMA_83rd_Ann...chnical Procedures for the Avian Patient.html


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## dawg53

Step 1 kinda reminds me of myself when I get up in the mornings ugh. It might be best to cull me Kathy!
Seriously though; it's an excellent list. Even one symptom on the list could mean more than one thing going on internally.


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## casportpony

dawg53 said:


> Step 1 kinda reminds me of myself when I get up in the mornings ugh. It might be best to cull me Kathy!
> Seriously though; it's an excellent list. Even one symptom on the list could mean more than one thing going on internally.


And often it's a very subtle change. Put a few together and the bird is usually quite sick.

-Kathy


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## dawg53

casportpony said:


> And often it's a very subtle change. Put a few together and the bird is usually quite sick.
> 
> -Kathy


Unfortunately you're right. By the time we try to treat whatever it is, it's usually too late. They disguise their sicknesses well for obvious reasons.


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## casportpony

dawg53 said:


> Unfortunately you're right. By the time we try to treat whatever it is, it's usually too late. They disguise their sicknesses well for obvious reasons.


A friend of mine sent me some pictures of her peahen that show this very well. Will post them later.


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## MichaelA69

I'm always on the lookout for wet/watery droppings underneath roosts in the morning. If I see some, I pay attention to which hen was roosting in a particular location, and check again to be sure the next time. I can identify the bird by a numbered leg band. I will supplement the flock with Probios powder-vitamins electrolytes in water for 3 days to see if there's improvement. Sometimes they ate too much of something unfamiliar on range, and that's all. If I notice a bird losing weight, I look their body over, and check the vent. I watch to make sure all birds act normally by going straight to the feeder in the morning when let out. If the bird showing symptoms is not improving within a day or two of supplemented water with the flock, I will use an individual treatment of Metronidazole, or 4 in 1 tabs, or triple sulfa tabs (hard to find anymore). Cephalexin is a very good antibiotic for gram negative and gram positive bacteria in the intestinal tract. I haven't had the need to use flock treatments of medication for a long time, but when I have, I found Linxmed (Lincomycin) more effective than Neomycin or Bactricin. Sulfadimethoxine is also a very effective antibacterial. I generally don't have worm problems since I worm at least 2 -4 times a year.

With young birds 2 years and under, I am always aware of the damage Coccidiosis can cause. That is why I use preventative doses of Amprolium in water each month for the first 7-9 months of life.


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## seminole wind

Great article! Love it!


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## MichaelA69

I forgot to mention it is always a good idea to open the beak and look down the throat as well as feel for a full crop. Canker looks like pale yellow buttons of plaque, and a foul smell could indicate Candida. The best time to do it is in the morning before birds are off their roosts since crops should be empty at that time. That is also the best time to deworm if needed since the crop is empty.


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## seminole wind

Yes, the symptoms can be subtle. That's why it's a good idea grab a cup of coffee and go sit out with your chickens frequently. You can spot things a lot quicker that way. And enjoy a relaxing break which is far superior to going to a park and feeding the pigeons.


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## casportpony

I think what people need to learn is how to think like a vet and vet tech. Most of us have been to the vet with a cat or dog, so think about it, what do most vets and techs do? My vet's techs start by getting a weight and a temp when it's a cat or dog, then the tech asks lots of questions. Then the vet comes in looking at the paperwork and starts the exam, which is almost always very thorough. My avian vet is quite good and does all the typical stuff, eyes, ears inside of mouth, vent, lungs and heart, etc. Since she doesn't see many peafowl, and peafowl make strange noises when being handled, she'll ask if a sound is normal. Of course she always wants to see the poop.


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## casportpony

seminolewind said:


> Yes, the symptoms can be subtle. That's why it's a good idea grab a cup of coffee and go sit out with your chickens frequently. You can spot things a lot quicker that way. And enjoy a relaxing break which is far superior to going to a park and feeding the pigeons.


Exactly! I can see one of my pea pens from the house, so I keep a watchful eye from the living room. If I see one looking off I'll go outside and watch it until it poops. 9 of 10 times the poop will be abnormal if the pea was looking off.


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## nannypattyrn

dawg53 said:


> Step 1 kinda reminds me of myself when I get up in the mornings ugh. It might be best to cull me Kathy!
> Seriously though; it's an excellent list. Even one symptom on the list could mean more than one thing going on internally.


Yep Dawg, my hubs would probably like to cull me in the morning before my coffee!!


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## nannypattyrn

Thx for your knowledge, Kathy! But like Seminole said " they are often are too far gone...." We decided to cull her before she spreads whatever to the rest. Actually her sister died will the same symptoms last summer.


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## casportpony

nannypattyrn said:


> Thx for your knowledge, Kathy! But like Seminole said " they are often are too far gone...." We decided to cull her before she spreads whatever to the rest. Actually her sister died will the same symptoms last summer.


Some will be too far gone, but you never know until you try. Proper supportive care is time consuming, so I do understand why many people choose to cull instead.

Sorry for your loss. You might want to look into having a necropsy done, or maybe do your own?


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## nannypattyrn

Probably, but we didn't this time. Mainly because we're getting ready to go to our grandchildrens induction into the Chickasaw honor society.


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## SunshineAcre

This is so helpful, thank you. Our favorite Sunshine Acre chickens was attacked by two dogs on Friday. We have been nursing her back to health using much of the instruction here.


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## seminole wind

SunshineAcre said:


> This is so helpful, thank you. Our favorite Sunshine Acre chickens was attacked by two dogs on Friday. We have been nursing her back to health using much of the instruction here.


I am very sorry. I hope you can save the ones that are hurt.

I used to cull really sick chickens just blaming it all on Marek's virus. But then I learned that if chickens don't suffer the symptoms of Marek's virus, and don't look well, it can be something from having a poor immune system and probably some microbes that they normally carry multiplying out of hand. Or staying at a low chronic level. So now if anyone seems unwell, I hit them with Corid or sulfadimethoxine and some general antibiotic or two. It works pretty well. I figure if they look sick already , I have nothing to lose by treating them for every common bacteria there is, and also tube feed them so they get some food and their meds. After 5-7 days of that, they go back to their pen and it's sink or swim and most of them swim and get fat.


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## chickenqueen

Sem,how do you tube feed a chicken?I'm an old pro with tube-feeding humans but never an animal.I think that would be a good skill to learn.


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## nannypattyrn

CQ, Castportpony is the tube feed teacher / expert here. I think Seminole is somewhat new at it too and I've never done it. (forgive if I'm wrong, Sem)


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## seminole wind

Actually, I've tube fed preemies for 20 years. Chickens are easier, but they need to be wrapped up. You can get urine catheters online which is good. And syringes. You take the tip of the catherer at their beak and measure to where their crop is and make a mark. This way you know how far down. We all use Kaytee hand feeding for chicks. In a pinch you can use aquarium tubing. Keep everything rinsed out so you can use it over and over.

Casportpony has some excellent pictures of how to do it. I think she's much better at explaining it. Kathy guided me through tubing chickens because I was being a wus about it . She had to show me where the tube should not go. She was a great support in how much food they require or liquid. The feeding helps keep them stay nourished and hydrated until they get better. Sick birds don't eat very well or at all.


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## Siobhan

MichaelA69 said:


> I'm always on the lookout for wet/watery droppings underneath roosts in the morning. If I see some, I pay attention to which hen was roosting in a particular location, and check again to be sure the next time. I can identify the bird by a numbered leg band. I will supplement the flock with Probios powder-vitamins electrolytes in water for 3 days to see if there's improvement. Sometimes they ate too much of something unfamiliar on range, and that's all. If I notice a bird losing weight, I look their body over, and check the vent. I watch to make sure all birds act normally by going straight to the feeder in the morning when let out. If the bird showing symptoms is not improving within a day or two of supplemented water with the flock, I will use an individual treatment of Metronidazole, or 4 in 1 tabs, or triple sulfa tabs (hard to find anymore). Cephalexin is a very good antibiotic for gram negative and gram positive bacteria in the intestinal tract. I haven't had the need to use flock treatments of medication for a long time, but when I have, I found Linxmed (Lincomycin) more effective than Neomycin or Bactricin. Sulfadimethoxine is also a very effective antibacterial. I generally don't have worm problems since I worm at least 2 -4 times a year.
> 
> With young birds 2 years and under, I am always aware of the damage Coccidiosis can cause. That is why I use preventative doses of Amprolium in water each month for the first 7-9 months of life.


For about 3 days my hen Blanca has been limping, head down, kinda of isolating , not diving in at feeder,has watery poop. I've held her in my lap feeding her why the rest are at the feeder. Should I take her and isolate he in a crate set up in my garage raising the temp. ? Give her a very diluted crushed aspirin in gallon water? What antibiotics or drugs do u reccommend? And where do I get them.


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## robin416

Can you do an exam? You want to check her closely for any swelling or heat on one side that isn't on the other. Check her legs closely. Look at the bottom of her feet, there you're looking for a dark spot.

You can dissolve a 325 mg aspirin in a gallon of water. No antibiotics until more information is found.

BTW, how old is she? And what breed?


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## Siobhan

robin416 said:


> Can you do an exam? You want to check her closely for any swelling or heat on one side that isn't on the other. Check her legs closely. Look at the bottom of her feet, there you're looking for a dark spot.
> 
> You can dissolve a 325 mg aspirin in a gallon of water. No antibiotics until more information is found.
> 
> BTW, how old is she? And what breed?


5-6 months old. Iam not sure of her breed. She's all white no waddle or comb. I looked at her feet. There is a small red area on the bottom of one foot. I've set up a dog crate w shredded paper, put in water w vitamin n 1/2 aspirin crushed. Am preparing a small tub w warm water w Epsom salts. I was going to go out n get some triple a/b w/o pain med.


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## Siobhan

Here's a pic of Blanca, don't kniw what breed,barnyard special? She's very special to me.


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## Poultry Judge

What Robin said, the Epsom Salts may help greatly and certainly will do no harm.


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## robin416

It's possible she bruised her foot jumping down from somewhere. It's about like us stepping on something hard in our bare feet. 

Warning, pulling her away from the others can make it difficult to put her back with them.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> It's possible she bruised her foot jumping down from somewhere. It's about like us stepping on something hard in our bare feet.
> 
> Warning, pulling her away from the others can make it difficult to put her back with them.


Yes!


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## Siobhan

robin416 said:


> It's possible she bruised her foot jumping down from somewhere. It's about like us stepping on something hard in our bare feet.
> 
> Warning, pulling her away from the others can make it difficult to put her back with them.


I know , I remember the last time I separated Dot ,the others were not all all nice! . right now I have her in my garage soaking her feet, I'm going to soak them for 15 min. She seemsLast might It just started to come into freezing temp outside so I have a heater in garage. What do u recommend?


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## Siobhan

Poultry Judge said:


> Yes!


Looking at multiple images of bumble foot, the wound on her foot looks like it. I'm trying to find an avian vet near me. If I can't find an avian vet can a regular vet do the procedure to remove the abscess/kernel? Those things won't heal if we just soak it will they? 20+ yrs ago I was a licensed practical nurse, the last 20yrs I've been an ultrasound tech. I think I could remove it..... But I would so prefer someone else to do it. But if the prognosis is poor if not done I guess I will bite the bullet n do this. Please advise


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## Siobhan

Siobhan said:


> Looking at multiple images of bumble foot, the wound on her foot looks like it. I'm trying to find an avian vet near me. If I can't find an avian vet can a regular vet do the procedure to remove the abscess/kernel? Those things won't heal if we just soak it will they? 20+ yrs ago I was a licensed practical nurse, the last 20yrs I've been an ultrasound tech. I think I could remove it..... But I would so prefer someone else to do it. But if the prognosis is poor if not done I guess I will bite the bullet n do this. Please advise


Do u think I shed soak it again ,clean it put antibiotic point on it n put her back w the flock. My hub found a avian vet , that tmw early am can fit her in sometime during the day.


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## Poultry Judge

You are probably going to get lots of advice, but in my humble opinion, I would do it like this if you can. Since you haven't done it before, maybe watch the avian vet do it the first time and ask plenty of questions. In the future, it is probably well within your skill set to treat these foot issues. I have been treating ducks, peafowl and chickens with foot injuries for thirty years and luckily, always had good recoveries. For whatever reason, I've never had a turkey injure a foot. My number one treatment is an Epsom salt soak, at least a couple times a day. We don't have good access to avian vets around here, we do have good farm vets for the sanctuary. We still make our own splints, do injections and minor stitching as necessary.


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## robin416

Note what PJ said about the farm vet. It's what I've always used for my chickens for things I couldn't do on my own. 

You said the spot is red, not black. That doesn't sound like an abcess yet and may not end there since you're doing the soaks.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> Note what PJ said about the farm vet. It's what I've always used for my chickens for things I couldn't do on my own.
> 
> You said the spot is red, not black. That doesn't sound like an abcess yet and may not end there since you're doing the soaks.


Yes, the soaks may very well take care of it.


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## Siobhan

I took Blanca to the vet last Tuesday and the vet said it wasn't bumble foot. She thinks she sprained her knee or hip. So I've given her pain med orally for 1 WK. She does not seem any better. Today I brought her out in the run in a dog crate she's been living in in the garage. I thought it WD be good to get them used to her. But my husband said when he put them in tonight Blanca was still limping around the crate. So he brought her back in the garage, I went out to check on her n she's sitting on the step. I think she wanted to come inside( the 1st night I gave her the medicine,I felt bad I had to wrap her in a towel so I could give the medicine,so afterwards I gave bites of a grape and we watched some utube videos on chickens) 
That aside I ll call the vet tmw but what's she going to tell me, broken hip? Blanca's put very little weight on it. Any suggestions?


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## Siobhan

Siobhan said:


> I took Blanca to the vet last Tuesday and the vet said it wasn't bumble foot. She thinks she sprained her knee or hip. So I've given her pain med orally for 1 WK. She does not seem any better. Today I brought her out in the run in a dog crate she's been living in in the garage. I thought it WD be good to get them used to her. But my husband said when he put them in tonight Blanca was still limping around the crate. So he brought her back in the garage, I went out to check on her n she's sitting on the step. I think she wanted to come inside( the 1st night I gave her the medicine,I felt bad I had to wrap her in a towel so I could give the medicine,so afterwards I gave bites of a grape and we watched some utube videos on chickens)
> That aside I ll call the vet tmw but what's she going to tell me, broken hip? Blanca's put very little weight on it. Any suggestions?


Should I try soaking the leg?


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## Poultry Judge

If the bird is not in visible distress, the warm epsom salt soak for the leg can't hurt. There may be other issues, I would give her treats and spend some more time with her to observe her. I don't see harm in bringing her in until you find out more of what's going on. I have the old office of the farmhouse set up as a quarantine room with the brooder tubs and what not. It seems there is always at least one bird in the house, tonight there are three.


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## dawg53

Most likely she has sprained or strained a tendon or ligament from jumping down from a high roost or other elevated object. I recommend lowering roosts.
You'll have to put her in a cage or crate to limit her movement for rest and relaxation. If she's up walking or running around it will only aggravate the injury and make it worse. Provide her food and water while she's caged and keep the cage clean as best as you can. 

These types of injuries take time to heal, several weeks to several months. You can purchase vitamin B complex tablets and crush a few into powder and sprinkle it on top of her feed to eat. The vitamin B complex may or may not help speed up recovery. Keep her caged for 10 days, then release her to see if there's improvement. If not, re-cage her for another 10 days and continue with the vitamin B complex treatment.
Then after 10 days, release her and see if there's improvement. If there is no improvement, stop the vitamin B complex.
It is at this time you're going to have to decide about her quality of life, either continue to keep her caged or cull her. Remember TIME heals. If you have the time and patience and have seen some improvement, only you can decide what you want to do.
I've had very good success with hens, but not so good with roosters treating these types of injuries.


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## Poultry Judge

dawg53 said:


> Most likely she has sprained or strained a tendon or ligament from jumping down from a high roost or other elevated object. I recommend lowering roosts.
> You'll have to put her in a cage or crate to limit her movement for rest and relaxation. If she's up walking or running around it will only aggravate the injury and make it worse. Provide her food and water while she's caged and keep the cage clean as best as you can.
> 
> These types of injuries take time to heal, several weeks to several months. You can purchase vitamin B complex tablets and crush a few into powder and sprinkle it on top of her feed to eat. The vitamin B complex may or may not help speed up recovery. Keep her caged for 10 days, then release her to see if there's improvement. If not, re-cage her for another 10 days and continue with the vitamin B complex treatment.
> Then after 10 days, release her and see if there's improvement. If there is no improvement, stop the vitamin B complex.
> It is at this time you're going to have to decide about her quality of life, either continue to keep her caged or cull her. Remember TIME heals. If you have the time and patience and have seen some improvement, only you can decide what you want to do.
> I've had very good success with hens, but not so good with roosters treating these types of injuries.


Thanks!!!


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## Siobhan

Poultry Judge said:


> Thanks!!!


Thanks,again today I have her outside w rest of the flock. One of the roosters started pecking her n she flew up on my shoulder then sat in my lap for awhile. Then she got n down n was limping around, again Zelda now called Zack jumped on her back then was pecking at her neck. I removed him n put him in the dogcrate for a timeout. Blanca jumped up onto the chair. I'm going to bring her back in the garage n give her some vitamin b as was suggested. I guess time, treats n TLC might help. I'm just worried about her losing the use of that leg.


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## robin416

I doubt she'll lose use of the leg but you will need to keep Zack away from her. Him jumping on her or stressing her isn't going to help much. 

How are the other birds acting towards her?


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## dawg53

Siobhan said:


> Thanks,again today I have her outside w rest of the flock. One of the roosters started pecking her n she flew up on my shoulder then sat in my lap for awhile. Then she got n down n was limping around, again Zelda now called Zack jumped on her back then was pecking at her neck. I removed him n put him in the dogcrate for a timeout. Blanca jumped up onto the chair. I'm going to bring her back in the garage n give her some vitamin b as was suggested. I guess time, treats n TLC might help. I'm just worried about her losing the use of that leg.


You must use Vitamin B COMPLEX, not plain vitamin B. Good luck.


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## danathome

*For example, it would be really helpful if someone could write up some suggestion for making a hospital cage and go into some detail about why the heat is necessary. If you don't know, I could try to explain it as well as provide some links for you to read.*

I have tried many different types of containers for a hospital cage. In my opinion, a plastic tub works the best. I have a wide range of sizes to accommodate the various species/breeds that I own. A plastic tub is ideal as a hospital cage in that it is easier to maintain the temperature, it's draft free, easy to transport, easy to clean, and easy to keep sterilized.

When heat is needed, it's a small matter to fasten a heat lamp with the appropriate watt bulb to the tub's side. Supplemental heat is important when dealing with a sick bird since an ill bird can not maintain its own body temperature and without the correct body temperature a bird is not able to properly digest its food or have organs function correctly.

Birds do better when they are not alone; especially when they are sick so whenever possible I provide a companion ( a bird that the sick one has gotten along with, a friend). Having a companion eliminates some of the stress of being separated from the flock. The companion may provide the right stimulus for the ill bird to continue living and not give up. Fear can be as bad as any illness and a companion helps with the fear factor.

Periodically, I go out after dark to look the birds over while they are on the roost It's a lot easier to examine birds on the roost than when they are running around. Also, a quick look under each individual makes checking their droppings for problems a breeze.


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## dawg53

Dog cages work well for injured birds and raising chicks indoors.


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## robin416

It's what I used for mine as time went by. I could cover the sides if more warmth was needed. And there was no shock of me looking over the top to see how they were doing.


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## danathome

I've used dog crates and still do-with broody hens, but prefer the clear tubs for my serama chicks and as hospital cages where cleanliness is a must.. A lot less mess too.


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## Poultry Judge

So, part of the trick will be allocating the right amount of time to heal versus some socialization with the flock.


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## dawg53

Healing time is priority #1. Socialization and introduction back into the flock can come when the bird is fully healed. We dont want a caged bird getting riled up by their flock mates possibly causing further injury. 
The best thing to do would be to bring in a single bird that was close to the caged bird in the pecking order, and put her in a cage next to the recovering bird for a couple hours a day.
Give both birds a little scratch as a treat, then they'll be happier than hogs in slop.


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## Siobhan

dawg53 said:


> You must use Vitamin B COMPLEX, not plain vitamin B. Good luck.


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## Siobhan

I just went out n bought bcomplex liquids sublingual. Should I just put it in her water?


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## Siobhan

robin416 said:


> I doubt she'll lose use of the leg but you will need to keep Zack away from her. Him jumping on her or stressing her isn't going to help much.
> 
> How are the other birds acting towards her?


They gave her a few minor pecks. Cogburn the smallest rooster was running interference ,blocking the others from getting close to her. But Zack was being aggressive. I think until she is walking well on her leg, Im going to keep her separated. She is in the garage n I set up small pet crate with a towels in it. But she won't go in there, instead she was sitting on a chair, then flew up to perch on the back of it. I put out some fresh water with a 1/4 aspirin n vitamins crushed in water, 2 grapes cut up n some feed. Since Iam a new novice to the world of chickens, I fear I may have 5 roosters n 3hens. Today looking very closely at 2of my barred batanam cochins , I think they have saddle feathers. Iam so bummed .what shd I do try to give b4 of them away? And when in Feb get 4 guaranteed female chicks.


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## Poultry Judge

dawg53 said:


> Dog cages work well for injured birds and raising chicks indoors.
> View attachment 37128
> View attachment 37126


You go Dan and Dawg53! Thanks for the explanations!


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## robin416

Siobhan said:


> I just went out n bought bcomplex liquids sublingual. Should I just put it in her water?


Give it to her directly. You can place the dropper right at where her mouth opens, towards the side and the drop will be pulled in.


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## robin416

Siobhan said:


> They gave her a few minor pecks. Cogburn the smallest rooster was running interference ,blocking the others from getting close to her. But Zack was being aggressive. I think until she is walking well on her leg, Im going to keep her separated. She is in the garage n I set up small pet crate with a towels in it. But she won't go in there, instead she was sitting on a chair, then flew up to perch on the back of it. I put out some fresh water with a 1/4 aspirin n vitamins crushed in water, 2 grapes cut up n some feed.  Since Iam a new novice to the world of chickens, I fear I may have 5 roosters n 3hens. Today looking very closely at 2of my barred batanam cochins , I think they have saddle feathers. Iam so bummed .what shd I do try to give b4 of them away? And when in Feb get 4 guaranteed female chicks.


No chairs to jump down off of. That will keep her leg painful. Did the vet give you meloxicam? Don't give her that and aspirin.


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## Siobhan

robin416 said:


> No chairs to jump down off of. That will keep her leg painful. Did the vet give you meloxicam? Don't give her that and aspirin.


Finished the meloxicam 2 days ago. I'm giving her 1/4 crushed aspirin in quart of water w vitamins. She is currently resting on a couch in the garage. Shd I confine her to the larger dog crate?


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## Siobhan

Yr speaking of placing the dropper at the corner of her mouth correct? That's how I wd get her to open her mouth to give her the pain med. I try talking to her , gently rub her neck n she is not very cooperative during this procedure. ?dosage?


robin416 said:


> Give it to her directly. You can place the dropper right at where her mouth opens, towards the side and the drop will be pulled in.


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## Siobhan

dawg53 said:


> You must use Vitamin B COMPLEX, not plain vitamin B. Good luck.


Bought the sublinguial lquid b complex dosage?


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## Siobhan

dawg53 said:


> Dog cages work well for injured birds and raising chicks indoors.
> View attachment 37128
> View attachment 37126


I like the way u set the crates up. Gotta look for a cheap table to put it on. Mines on a plastic tub.


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## robin416

Siobhan said:


> Yr speaking of placing the dropper at the corner of her mouth correct? That's how I wd get her to open her mouth to give her the pain med. I try talking to her , gently rub her neck n she is not very cooperative during this procedure. ?dosage?


Yes, if that works to get her dosed. Give her a couple of drops to start.

dawg is covered up today so he might not answer for a while.

Did your vet do an x-ray?


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## Siobhan

robin416 said:


> Yes, if that works to get her dosed. Give her a couple of drops to start.
> 
> dawg is covered up today so he might not answer for a while.
> 
> Did your vet do an x-ray?


No she didn't take an xray. She did a physical exam,should she have? She seemed to think it was a sprain.


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## robin416

If she did a physical then she would have felt if something wasn't right. 

You're really going to have to keep her off things. No jumping down from anything at all for a while.


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## Siobhan

robin416 said:


> If she did a physical then she would have felt if something wasn't right.
> 
> You're really going to have to keep her off things. No jumping down from anything at all for a while.


She sits a lot. I've placed a cushion on the chair n towel n her food n water. So then I should put her in the crate to completely restrict her from any jumping/leap/fly movement.


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## robin416

If she's been jumping down from things this entire time that's why she hasn't healed. She keeps re-injuring the leg.


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## Siobhan

robin416 said:


> If she's been jumping down from things this entire time that's why she hasn't healed. She keeps re-injuring the leg.


St night she is sleeping in the dogcrate. Daytime the crate is open n she walks around. She was pushing a bunch of dirt out of my potted plants. So I brought in a container with dirt,ash n DME. I put out a little feed she didn't eat much. So I brought out soft corn kernels ,some chopped lettuce,sunflower seeds, some grapes n dried cranberries- she ate some of that. I'm giving her the vitamin b via the dropper n she is more cooperative. My husband doesn't think she's getting better, I'm not sure because she's still limping. She walks on it very gingerly, sometimes she drags it n doesn't lean on it. I'm hoping this just takes time to heal. Meanwhile out in the yard Zack is being a jerk, trying to mount Ginger n Doeathea. He was pulling Dots comb ad he was jumping on her! Even the other big rooster Iggy he pulled his comb. I guess his hormones are making him such a beast


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## robin416

It is really time to put Zack in time out. 

If this is a connective tissue injury it will take a lot of time to heal and if she's been jumping off things it's going to take even longer. 

I got clipped in the knee years ago. It caused a ligament injury, it took more than six months for it to totally heal.


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## Poultry Judge

What Robin said, connective tissue injuries are tough to get healed properly.


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## Siobhan

robin416 said:


> It is really time to put Zack in time out.
> 
> If this is a connective tissue injury it will take a lot of time to heal and if she's been jumping off things it's going to take even longer.
> 
> I got clipped in the knee years ago. It caused a ligament injury, it took more than six months for it to totally heal.


She seems to be dragging her leg,keeping her foot not clenched but not open. I picked her up, tried to do a gentle range of motion exercise with her. She was sensitive in her knee area. Don't know what else to do. Am continuing w vitamin water w aspirin n bcomplex drops.


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## robin416

Take her back to the vet. And time. Since you told us about this issue there really hasn't been much time go by.

See if the vet will prescribe more meloxicam and keep her off stuff.


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## Siobhan

robin416 said:


> Take her back to the vet. And time. Since you told us about this issue there really hasn't been much time go by.
> 
> See if the vet will prescribe more meloxicam and keep her off stuff.


I texted the vet, she shed call me back tmw.


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## Poultry Judge

Good luck! Keep us posted.


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## Gin

casportpony said:


> You've just discovered your bird is sick... Now what? In this post/thread I will attempt to describe how _I_ deal with the mildly sick to critically ill bird when I cannot consult with a vet. Topics covered will be:
> Identifying a sick bird
> Stabilization
> Hospital cage setup
> Exams
> Poop inspection
> Oral fluid therapy
> Subcutaneous fluid therapy
> Gavage feeding
> Choosing medications
> 
> Step one is to determine how sick the bird is. When outside, how does it look, sound and act? Stand back in a place where they can't see you and watch them. These are the signs I look for:
> Weight loss in adult birds and youngsters
> Lack of weight gain in youngsters
> Standing with eyes closed
> Discoloration or change of comb, wattles or caruncles
> Wings drooping
> Fluffed feathers
> Head tucked in
> Wobbly gait or limping
> Not interested in food/treats
> Not roosting
> Roosting early
> Roosting longer than others
> Hanging out alone
> Vocal changes
> Behavioral changes of any type
> Sitting when others are not
> Panting or open mouth breathing
> Abnormal droppings
> Nasal/eye discharge
> Facial swelling
> Raspy breathing
> If laying, have all eggs been normal
> 
> Once you've identified a sick bird you will need to examine it. This is where it gets a little tricky, 'cause often examining a critically ill bird is enough to send it over the edge
> Stabilizing the sick bird
> Start by placing the bird in a warm room, and slowly correct the hypothermia. If responsive, give warmed fluids at 20ml/kg and repeat in 60-90 min if crop has cleared.
> The Exam
> Bring inside where it's warm and get a baseline weight.
> Check for mites, lice, ticks, maggots, etc.
> Check _entire_ body for swellings, cuts, bruising, fractures, etc.
> Check range of motion in legs and wings
> Check eyes, mouth for abnormalities (odor, discharge, pus swelling, etc,)
> If it's of laying age, check for stuck egg.
> Temp of body, and legs - are they hot, warm or cold?
> 
> Poop inspection
> Birds have two type of poop and they're what I call regular poop and cecal poop. Regular poops are the ones the do most often and cecal poop are the stinky, creamy ones that they do a couple of time a day, usually morning and evening. It's important to get to know what normal poop looks and smells like.
> 
> The Hospital Cage
> Sick birds are almost always hypothermic, so it's very important to place them in a warm, quiet draft free room where you can maintain the temperature of the cage at at least 80 degrees. Be careful when using heat lamps or heating pads because many birds are too sick to move away from the heat if they're too hot.
> 
> Wound Care
> 
> Injections
> 
> -Kathy
> 
> Disclaimer - Always best to consult with a vet and please understand that I have no medical training!
> 
> Find and avian vet in your area here:
> http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
> Majestic Waterfowl Sanctuary - Waterfowl Vet Directory
> 
> This is a work in progress, please check back for updates!
> 
> Anyone wanna help write this? Looking for volunteers to write a paragraph or two about a few subjects. Of course you will be given full credit for anything you write.
> 
> For example, it would be really helpful if someone could write up some suggestion for making a hospital cage and go into some detail about why the heat is necessary. If you don't know, I could try to explain it as well as provide some links for you to read.
> 
> Also need one for basic wound care. Something that describes how to debride, flush, clean, wrap, etc.
> 
> References I use:
> http://avianmedicine.net/publication_cat/avian-medicine/
> http://avianmedicine.net/publication_cat/clinical-avian-medicine/
> http://avianmedicine.net/publication_cat/avian-examiner/
> http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/cahfs/about/publications/cahfs_connection.cfm
> 
> The AAAP Avian Disease Manual
> Veterinary Parasitology Reference Manual
> Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook
> Diseases of Poultry
> The Merck Veterinary Manual
> 
> From this link:
> http://www.fvmace.org/FVMA_83rd_Annual_Conference/Proceedings/Technical Procedures for the Avian Patient.html


Thank you for this post. My chickens are 5-6 months. As a beginner I am confused as to what to do next. I lost an Orpington two months ago. Sudden death. No warning. Really, she was what seemed to be our healthiest, happiest bird. 
The weekend before Thanksgiving my favorite chicken, Opal, got sick. Started closing her eyes when standing, sat a lot while others were hanging out. No other symptoms. Took her to the vet. They wouldn’t let me go in with her for the exam. But I do know they didn’t do blood work. And before the vet saw her, the tech said it was probably mycoplasma. Indeed that was diagnosis after a two minute exam. He didn’t seem concerned and gave her five days of oral antibiotics . On the fifth day of antibiotics she started sneezing and gurgling. But more active. Eating well. Drinking well. Perking up. Called vet and got five more days of oral antibiotics. Opal is still sneezing. Gurgling is better, but still a bit raspy. Other than closing her eyes some,but not a lot, she is acting fine. What do I do now?


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## robin416

What antibiotic did they provide? Tylosin is recommended to treat mycoplasma. 

But something's not quite right. Why is the rest of the flock not symptomatic? Your best bet is if you lose another is to have a necropsy done to get a definitive diagnosis.


----------



## Gin

robin416 said:


> What antibiotic did they provide? Tylosin is recommended to treat mycoplasma.
> 
> But something's not quite right. Why is the rest of the flock not symptomatic? Your best bet is if you lose another is to have a necropsy done to get a definitive diagnosis.


I’m not pleased with our vets here when it comes to chickens. We only have a couple that will see chickens. One of them said they are a month out on seeing chickens. With the other vet it is always a week out. That’s a long time for a sick chicken.
I appreciate the advice. But I’m not sure how helpful a vet will be here. 
Im wondering if she has a crop issue. Her crop seems larger. I need to check it in the morning. She had already eaten by the time I read the post this morning.


----------



## Gin

Gin said:


> I’m not pleased with our vets here when it comes to chickens. We only have a couple that will see chickens. One of them said they are a month out on seeing chickens. With the other vet it is always a week out. That’s a long time for a sick chicken.
> I appreciate the advice. But I’m not sure how helpful a vet will be here.
> Im wondering if she has a crop issue. Her crop seems larger. I need to check it in the morning. She had already eaten by the time I read the post this morning.


Oh. And that’s the antibiotic she took.


----------



## robin416

Well, that was appropriate if it was mycoplasma. 

Unfortunately that's the story with many vets. Most spent only minutes in med school studying chickens so they are almost as clueless as we are. Although at times if the circumstances are right we can guide them in the treatment. 

On the blood draw thing, chickens need special collections (vacuum) tubes. Few vets have those. One thing you can do is call your state vet. Ask them if a swap of their throat would help isolate their issue.


----------



## LoxiKat

casportpony said:


> You've just discovered your bird is sick... Now what? In this post/thread I will attempt to describe how _I_ deal with the mildly sick to critically ill bird when I cannot consult with a vet. Topics covered will be:
> Identifying a sick bird
> Stabilization
> Hospital cage setup
> Exams
> Poop inspection
> Oral fluid therapy
> Subcutaneous fluid therapy
> Gavage feeding
> Choosing medications
> 
> Step one is to determine how sick the bird is. When outside, how does it look, sound and act? Stand back in a place where they can't see you and watch them. These are the signs I look for:
> Weight loss in adult birds and youngsters
> Lack of weight gain in youngsters
> Standing with eyes closed
> Discoloration or change of comb, wattles or caruncles
> Wings drooping
> Fluffed feathers
> Head tucked in
> Wobbly gait or limping
> Not interested in food/treats
> Not roosting
> Roosting early
> Roosting longer than others
> Hanging out alone
> Vocal changes
> Behavioral changes of any type
> Sitting when others are not
> Panting or open mouth breathing
> Abnormal droppings
> Nasal/eye discharge
> Facial swelling
> Raspy breathing
> If laying, have all eggs been normal
> 
> Once you've identified a sick bird you will need to examine it. This is where it gets a little tricky, 'cause often examining a critically ill bird is enough to send it over the edge
> Stabilizing the sick bird
> Start by placing the bird in a warm room, and slowly correct the hypothermia. If responsive, give warmed fluids at 20ml/kg and repeat in 60-90 min if crop has cleared.
> The Exam
> Bring inside where it's warm and get a baseline weight.
> Check for mites, lice, ticks, maggots, etc.
> Check _entire_ body for swellings, cuts, bruising, fractures, etc.
> Check range of motion in legs and wings
> Check eyes, mouth for abnormalities (odor, discharge, pus swelling, etc,)
> If it's of laying age, check for stuck egg.
> Temp of body, and legs - are they hot, warm or cold?
> 
> Poop inspection
> Birds have two type of poop and they're what I call regular poop and cecal poop. Regular poops are the ones the do most often and cecal poop are the stinky, creamy ones that they do a couple of time a day, usually morning and evening. It's important to get to know what normal poop looks and smells like.
> 
> The Hospital Cage
> Sick birds are almost always hypothermic, so it's very important to place them in a warm, quiet draft free room where you can maintain the temperature of the cage at at least 80 degrees. Be careful when using heat lamps or heating pads because many birds are too sick to move away from the heat if they're too hot.
> 
> Wound Care
> 
> Injections
> 
> -Kathy
> 
> Disclaimer - Always best to consult with a vet and please understand that I have no medical training!
> 
> Find and avian vet in your area here:
> http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
> Majestic Waterfowl Sanctuary - Waterfowl Vet Directory
> 
> This is a work in progress, please check back for updates!
> 
> Anyone wanna help write this? Looking for volunteers to write a paragraph or two about a few subjects. Of course you will be given full credit for anything you write.
> 
> For example, it would be really helpful if someone could write up some suggestion for making a hospital cage and go into some detail about why the heat is necessary. If you don't know, I could try to explain it as well as provide some links for you to read.
> 
> Also need one for basic wound care. Something that describes how to debride, flush, clean, wrap, etc.
> 
> References I use:
> http://avianmedicine.net/publication_cat/avian-medicine/
> http://avianmedicine.net/publication_cat/clinical-avian-medicine/
> http://avianmedicine.net/publication_cat/avian-examiner/
> http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/cahfs/about/publications/cahfs_connection.cfm
> 
> The AAAP Avian Disease Manual
> Veterinary Parasitology Reference Manual
> Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook
> Diseases of Poultry
> The Merck Veterinary Manual
> 
> From this link:
> http://www.fvmace.org/FVMA_83rd_Annual_Conference/Proceedings/Technical Procedures for the Avian Patient.html


Read through tonight. Really helpful and reassuring. Thank you!


----------

