# Q Chicken laws on shipping



## MurphysLaw (Jun 25, 2015)

I am having a conversation with someone that is screaming that it is illegal to ship chickens regardless of age and testing.

now i know for a fact many hatcheries ship day old chicks because they can go awhile before they need to eat and drink .

this lovely individual screaming at me tells me this is against the law as well and that hatcheries such as Cackle are illegal and has apparently started a "change.org" about this with "mypetchicken" or has signed it or something.

they believe the birds should be full grown and crated like dogs before being shipped.

anyone have the links to the laws regarding shipping laws of day old birds?
i found plenty on adult birds.

This person is part of my local postal service and i am expecting some chicks from a breeder in GA in a few days and do NOT want this person to try anything funny with my birds. I have given a warning to my postal service and will be sending all of the laws i can to them. Going to ask the breeder if he knows another service he can work through or skip that destination to another post office but want to be prepared in case they give me the same issue.

State is Texas (home of Ideal hatchery...whom also ships day old chicks!)

the crazy petition is out there but heres mypetchicken on it:http://blog.mypetchicken.com/2014/09/13/change-org/

please and thank you


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

It shouldn't be illegal and I would be speaking to the the manager or whatever of the postal service that if the birds are tampered with in anyway there will be legal ramifications. Also file a complaint against this person because I do not think her boss would enjoy her screaming her opinions at you.
Those HUGE hatcheries would not be shipping chickens if it were illegal. They'd be out of business.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

IT is not illegal to ship day old chicks.USPS is the only carrier that ships live poultry.
The change org petition means nothing other than people trying to change the law.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

It actually states right in the petition that it's an entirely legal practice. So, whether the persnickety individual in the post office is of the opinion that it is not, it is. 
I wouldn't be sending any laws to them, I'd simply be telling them if the box is touched in any way you will be after the post office as tampering with mail is an offence, and again, put in a complaint about that person and request s/he be reprimanded as treating customers that way is completely out of line.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

.
526.3 Live, Day-Old Poultry

526.31 General

The following live, day-old animals are acceptable for mailing when properly packaged: chickens, ducks, emus, geese, guinea fowl, partridges, pheasants (only during April through August), quail, and turkeys. All other types of live, day-old poultry are nonmailable. Day-old poultry vaccinated with Newcastle disease (live virus) also is nonmailable.
526.32 Mailability Requirements

The specific types of day-old poultry named in 526.31 are mailable subject to the following requirements:
Poultry that is not more than 24 hours old and is presented for mailing in the original, unopened hatchery box from the hatchery of origin.
The date and hour of hatching is noted on the box by a representative of the hatchery who has personal knowledge thereof. (For Collect on Delivery (COD) shipments made by a hatchery for the account of others, the name or initials and address of the hatchery or the Post Office box number and address of the hatchery must be prominently shown for this standard.)
Box is properly ventilated, of proper construction and strength to bear safe transport in the mail, and is not stacked more than 10 units high.
Day-old poultry is mailed early enough in the week to avoid receipt at the office of address (in case of missed connections) on a Sunday, a national holiday, or the afternoon before a Sunday or national holiday.
Day-old poultry can be delivered to the addressee within 72 hours of the time of hatching.
Day-old poultry sent via surface transportation, must include special handling service fees, in addition to regular postage.
Day-old poultry sent via air transportation must meet all provisions of the airlines. Delivery of the mailpiece is dependent on the availability of air carriers having available equipment to safely deliver the day-old poultry within the specified time limit.
Day-old poultry that is first shipped via a commercial air express or air cargo service and then presented for mailing to a final destination must be in good condition and properly packaged as specified in 526.32a-e.
Boxes of day-old poultry of about identical size, securely fastened together to prevent separation in transit, may be accepted for mailing as a single parcel, provided the total length and girth combined does not exceed Postal Service limits.
See Exhibit 526.33, Requirements for Mailing Live, Day-Old Poultry. See Chapter 7 regarding domestic mail shipments sent via air transportation.

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_008.htm


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## MurphysLaw (Jun 25, 2015)

Fiere said:


> It actually states right in the petition that it's an entirely legal practice. So, whether the persnickety individual in the post office is of the opinion that it is not, it is.
> I wouldn't be sending any laws to them, I'd simply be telling them if the box is touched in any way you will be after the post office as tampering with mail is an offence, and again, put in a complaint about that person and request s/he be reprimanded as treating customers that way is completely out of line.


oh i've given my warning on the matter their manager and i had the talk a few years back when i had picked up some chicks for a relative because they refused to touch the box.

we had the talk again today. I am ecstatic about those birds and heads will roll.

the postal service and i are not getting along today at all...this all began when i contacted them about a tracking delay on some eggs.

"omg are they going to like hatch or something!" and then it went down hill from their rather quickly.

now i am left hoping that package isnt being delayed because they are afraid it has dead birds in it or something *sigh*

hatching eggs are from a friend of mine with Peafowl hoping they get here safe


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## MurphysLaw (Jun 25, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> .
> 526.3 Live, Day-Old Poultry
> 
> 526.31 General
> ...


Awesome sauce now i am going to be a pain in the arse and neatly pin this on their board with all the little laws =3


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Tampering with the mail is a Federal Offence, employee or not. But TX is strict about what crosses into the state. Make sure the copy of the NPIP papers are included or there is a high chance of them being refused at a PO. I've seen that one happen and with the flu outbreak they are probably watching even closer.

I agree with the others, don't bother trying to provide a copy of the rules/regulations that allow for shipping live birds. This person will probably accuse you of manufacturing it since they are so off tilt.

I can probably come up with the PO's guidelines on how, when lives can be shipped. I'll look and post the link if I find it, it's one of those hard to find things.


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## MurphysLaw (Jun 25, 2015)

robin416 said:


> Tampering with the mail is a Federal Offence, employee or not. But TX is strict about what crosses into the state. Make sure the copy of the NPIP papers are included or there is a high chance of them being refused at a PO. I've seen that one happen and with the flu outbreak they are probably watching even closer.
> 
> I agree with the others, don't bother trying to provide a copy of the rules/regulations that allow for shipping live birds. This person will probably accuse you of manufacturing it since they are so off tilt.
> 
> I can probably come up with the PO's guidelines on how, when lives can be shipped. I'll look and post the link if I find it, it's one of those hard to find things.


i will remind him to play it safe .

they have tampered with general mail before but it's been about 2 years i reported them and the person (supposedly the only one involved) was fired. 
i will remind them of the incident maybe that will lower the risk as well.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

The person should have been arrested, not fired.


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## MurphysLaw (Jun 25, 2015)

robin416 said:


> The person should have been arrested, not fired.


agreed , maybe they did. they did say their was an investigation and the person was fired but beyond that i was told nothing more and given another mailwoman


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## rosco47 (Jul 6, 2015)

well in that case, me and EFowl just broke "the law" and should be charged with 21 counts of shipping baby poultry...
its also my understanding that USPS is the ONLY entity that will ship poultry...sounds like someone needs some enlightenment


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

When someone like that goes off on a nonsensical tangent there is no enlightenment to be had. That person's mind is made up, right, wrong or indifferent and there is no way anyone can change that thinking.


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## rosco47 (Jul 6, 2015)

robin416 said:


> When someone like that goes off on a nonsensical tangent there is no enlightenment to be had. That person's mind is made up, right, wrong or indifferent and there is no way anyone can change that thinking.


my chickens arriving labeled "live poultry inside" and them handing me the container over the counter would make them reconsider their thinking... and of course I would have a nice smile on my face


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Yeh, and that person is liable to be one of those that decides they are better off being turned out into the wild. 

After my many years on this planet I've seen a lot of people do some incredibly stupid stuff all in the name of helping.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

A local lost a Westphalian stallion because of people "helping". It was quite tragic. 

Reading stuff like this makes me like my chickens even more, they aren't people! hahah


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## MurphysLaw (Jun 25, 2015)

Update:

the woman was fired today. causes? last straw was reached ..

i have 3 sets of eggs being sent to me , 2 are lost. 1 finally arrived and they refused to deliver. because "gate is shut.... gate was not shut...sent messages to their boss...i was home to receive the package...they did not even stop...kept driving got the notification on my phone! i reported to their boss pictures of the open gate.

package was delivered.

as i get the package i realize it has been cut open.
opening the package the eggs container seems ok but 3 eggs are damaged badly....trying the nail polish trick on two but anticipating no development.


i cleaned the others and have them resting now so the air cell can settle.

the mailwoman apparently lied to her boss about many things today...


apparently i now "own pitbulls" (i have a dachshund and shes not allowed in the front yard nor can she be seen or heard) i also apparently have this gate padlocked.

this gate is also not open wide enough for a child to walk through...

they left a note on my package that if the gate is closed they only have to attempt to deliver...i sent this message to her boss.

every single picture.

the manager will be contacting me post haste when chicks come in and this individual will not be allowed near any of my packages in the future he is taking the report to the higher ups.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

My experience with my PO was so different from the sad mess you've got there. My PO or the one at the hub would call and let me know my birds were in. They would give me the option to come pick them up or bring them to my door. I always opted to go get them. I think they learned calling me got them out of the building faster. Although I never suffered any grief.

They even had me come in when they were closed if the birds arrived after hours. All I had to do was go to the back door. 

So different from the grief this person is putting you through.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Good riddance she was fired. Now she has lots of time to sign petitions.


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## rosco47 (Jul 6, 2015)

hippies! they need to stick to hugging whales and saving trees


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## MurphysLaw (Jun 25, 2015)

this is the first time i have ever had detached air cells too with shipped eggs...i swear the damaged eggs were in the middle of the 1 1/2 dozen carton it was packed up well and extremely well padded...because the box was open i suspect he shoved something into the side and beat the hell out of it...

god i hope they look better tomorrow...anyone with experience on detached air cells from rabid USPS workers?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Broken air cells are very common. I've had boxes come in that didn't look like they had been touched but found broken air cells. There were parts of the country I didn't order from because it seemed to be more of an issue. Probably had to do with how much they were handled and whether or not they were part of air freight.


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## MurphysLaw (Jun 25, 2015)

robin416 said:


> Broken air cells are very common. I've had boxes come in that didn't look like they had been touched but found broken air cells. There were parts of the country I didn't order from because it seemed to be more of an issue. Probably had to do with how much they were handled and whether or not they were part of air freight.


apparently they didnt fire her and still sent her out with another package of mine *fuming* so i am recording the whole thing now...

i am filing various complaints as well, she broke federal law.
from what i have heard if the air cells dont reattach after 24 hours they likely wont? but should be incubated up right in a carton to play it safe (bottoms up)

anything else?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Air cells will not reform, they are broken and will stay that way. Resting for any shipped eggs is always recommended. 

That said, set them. I've had a couple make it to hatch but considering the percentages are not high for success. And you do want to rotate them. The purpose behind rotation is to try to keep the peep developing in the center of the egg and not along the shell wall.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

You can set them and have a chance of them hatching or chuck them and not have them hatch at all. You'd want them rotating but also held upright, so in a turner would be best.


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## MurphysLaw (Jun 25, 2015)

robin416 said:


> Broken air cells are very common. I've had boxes come in that didn't look like they had been touched but found broken air cells. There were parts of the country I didn't order from because it seemed to be more of an issue. Probably had to do with how much they were handled and whether or not they were part of air freight.


ah i had the thought that they could re attach from an old file on byc (looks around) was trying to figure out what to do...i've shipped eggs before and not once had air cell detachment T.T going to incubate in the egg carton after they are left to rest.
heres the BYC post just found it , it mentioned re attaching at 1. either way i will be taking extreme care with them after this and egg carton style it is... http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/704328/diary-notes-air-cell-detatched-shipped-eggs

Peafowl eggs arrived no air cell damage thankfully. i sat at the door and recorded her and left a note on my gate. i was really worried...they were suppose to be here on the 8th...


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## MurphysLaw (Jun 25, 2015)

Fiere said:


> You can set them and have a chance of them hatching or chuck them and not have them hatch at all. You'd want them rotating but also held upright, so in a turner would be best.


been through alot already going to give it a shot and baby the eggs and see what i get


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

There are two membranes on the egg, the outer that lines the inside of the shell and the inner that surrounds the albumen. It's the inner one that ruptures allowing the air cell to enter the albumen area. The statement about reattaching is not accurate. What you're doing by allowing them to rest is to hopefully get all of the air back to where it's supposed to be.


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## MurphysLaw (Jun 25, 2015)

update:
eggs were handled to roughly by the post office did not hatch for the most part only 3 are going.

my chicks arrived safe one and only one had a broken toe.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

That isn't on you, just remember that. Broken air cells rarely hatch even with lots of TLC.


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## MurphysLaw (Jun 25, 2015)

robin416 said:


> That isn't on you, just remember that. Broken air cells rarely hatch even with lots of TLC.


yeah i just feel horrible about it =/ all because someone didnt like to do their job


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