# small scare but seems okay (graphic page 3)(necropsy prelim) (final result)



## seminole wind

Last night I go out to lock up and my snuggly silkie roo did not make it up the ladder. He actually look like he was twisting his neck around. I put him on the ramp and he stepped sideways. He's 2 years old. I actually went out with a flashlight at midnight to check on him. This morning he acted fine like the rest of them. I'm relieved. Of course he's my snuggle muffin!


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## robin416

I've seen odd behavior in mine from time to time only to find them totally normal the next day. I guess they just have off days like us humans.


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## seminole wind

Tonight I watched them walk the plank to the coop. First he's beat up x2. Then he walks the plank up to the coop, Then they attack him and he falls off. The head twisting is either a nervous reaction or him looking for god to save him. He will be out of there in the morning. I was thinking of putting him in with the 2 Polish (the blind girl). Polish and silkies seem to get along pretty well. 

The other thing is I have a flock roo that thinks in terms of ME ME ME!. He has one favorite, and the other 6 hens get nipped away from the scratch. I put it in different areas and he makes the rounds nipping the hens on each area. He disappears with the one hen during the day and the others hang out by the coop. I don't know what anyone else has experienced, but don't roos seem to guard hens? He's the first unselfless roo I've had.


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## Maryellen

Most guard the hens. Mine. doesnt. First sign of hawk he alarms and runs and hides

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## chickenqueen

I've only had attack roosters and those I found on the side of the road(I guess that's why they were there LOL).They went back to the side of the road.Right now I'm down to 1 rooster for 26 hens.


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## robin416

Karen, as I was supposed to be going to sleep last night I realized that moving a rooster in with your two girls might not be a good idea. If he's still breeding he's going to be after them which will stress out the blind girl a ton. And yes, they will mount non producing birds, I've seen mine do it. 

Chicklett will do the same thing, run from pile to pile intimidating everyone to get away from all of her treats. Of course that's an over bearing hen but the same behavior.


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## seminole wind

Okay, Robin, thanks. I guess I'll arrange something else. Like maybe putting him with the 2 in my avatar? Psycho and sister?


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## robin416

All I can say, is poor boy. If Pyscho lives up to her name he's in for a hard time.


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## seminole wind

I was going to move him somewhere today but when I got out there, he was tucked in a corner, upside down with his neck twisted. I held him for over an hour and he started to show signs of some improvement, hearing crowing and crowing back, holding up his head for periods, and going from the slow gasp of death to hot weather panting. I have him in the coop, in a nest box in the middle, and surrounded by wire fence. With a fan. 
I put water within reach. I may have to tube water later. Or can he go overnight without? He did have some food in his crop. How about an aspirin?


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## seminole wind

Robin, it won't be with psycho.


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## robin416

With what all is going on it's hard to know if it's the stress that has him behaving that way or if something else is going on. If he's mobile, I would just leave water and food nearby and away from the things that were stressing him.

The girl in my avatar had bad moments just putting her in my truck. Never could show her because the stress have her prostrate.


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## seminole wind

I hope it's stress related. He's not walking around but will reach over to the food and water. I think eating is important. I gave him a piece of crushed up aspirin in some water in a syringe. He fought me tooth and nail. 

That's sad about your little girl. But she is very cute!


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## robin416

And the best part begins, waiting and watching. I always hated that part but usually it was the right thing to do.


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## seminole wind

I hate that too. I wonder if he had an illness that his buddies targeted him-you know how chickens are? For months he has waited on the ramp , I thought , to be put to bed. You know how they pick on the weakest one. 

My first silkie roo was like that. I thought he was waiting for me to tuck him in (sure), then I saw him fall off the ramp one evening, and the next day he never moved from the spot he sat in all day. He ended up being my first unknown Marek's victim.


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## seminole wind

Robin, I figured you'd lose sleep over it. But in his condition, he won't be chasing anyone. I'll just have to see if he makes it thru the night. : (


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## seminole wind

So he did sleep thru Friday night, and I thought Saturday would be his last day. I gave him some mush and water in 2 little bowls. He twisted his head around and ate.
At 6pm I go out to see them and he's standing staring me in the eye! I pray he keeps improving. 

I don't know if I should tube some food and water. I'd like to but don't want to stress him. Any thoughts?


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## robin416

If he's eating on his own I'd feel the same way. Something has him like he is, either it's his flock mates stressing him or an illness.


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## chickenqueen

As long as he's eating and drinking,I'd let him go.If he's losing weight or seems dehydrated,maybe try TF some Ensure.


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## seminole wind

He's still eating and drinking and standing. He has a slight head tilt. Hubs said he made some crowing noises this morning (the roo).

I thought for sure he'd die or I'd euthanize him. I'm so grateful he looks like he'll live. I have to move him where he can have some more room. Hmmm.


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## seminole wind

He's still eating, drinking, and crowed loud this morning. Still cocks his head on one side to look at something. Otherwise holds his head straight.


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## robin416

Can you get a pic of him and that head position? I'm wondering if one of the others hurt him and it's just not healed yet.

No clue yet where his new digs are going to be?


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## pblanton

I bought six little Marans at an animal swap at the local Big R store back in April. Recently one of them got a stiff knee and could no longer walk. We brought her into the basement where we keep a trough used for growing young chicks and she just laid there, never getting any better.

About a week later, another of the little Marans got sick but didn't have any outward symptoms other than lethargy. We bought her in with the stiff legged one and she died over that night.

About a day later one of the other Marans began having an issue with her neck. She'd twist it all the way backward and lose her balance. She couldn't walk up the ramp the coop anymore without falling off. Then the next day she'd be better for a while.

That's when we realized that we had acquired six chicks infected with Marek's. One had died, two were showing quite different symptoms and the other three seemed fine for the time. We had segregated the Marans from the rest of the flock about a week earlier and realized we had to cull all six of them. When I was younger I used to hunt, but the older I get the more I resist killing. Unfortunately having chickens means sometime you have to kill.

My chickens are all innocent little sweethearts and I hated doing it, but if I hadn't the rest of the flock would have contracted it and all died horribly. Hopefully we caught it in time. It's been a week since the cull and the rest of them seem fine.

Marek's is evil. It sucks the life out of your chickens in an extraordinarily cruel manner and is virulently contagious. If you see any signs of Marek's, stiff legs, crazy neck, etc... you must separate immediately and keep an eye on them for a long time. Don't be afraid to cull because the rest of your flock depends on it. :-(

By the way, after culling the Marans, we sprayed down the henhouse with bleach (be careful as their waste has ammonia in it, and that will create chlorine gas which is deadly in concentration. Be sure to have plenty of ventilation). We also sprayed down the dirt all around the henhouse with bleach, but they free range and there is no way to ensure that our entire property is Marek's free. Marek's can lie dormant in the soil until another chicken comes across it, chasing a grasshopper. If you keep your chickens in a relatively small place then you will be able to sterilize more effectively.


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## robin416

Mareks is insidious. Knock on wood, I've never had to deal with it. If they had Mareks when you brought them in and they had access to the other birds, chances are very high that the others were exposed then.

There are folks breeding for resistance.


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## pblanton

Yeah I know. They were all together for about a month, so there is a chance they got it as well. We're hoping they are all ok but the fact is there's not much we can do at this point other than wait it out.


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## dawg53

Seminolewind (Karen) is the resident expert regarding Marek's disease.


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## seminole wind

robin416 said:


> Can you get a pic of him and that head position? I'm wondering if one of the others hurt him and it's just not healed yet.
> 
> No clue yet where his new digs are going to be?


I'll take some pics. His new digs may be where he is now-in with a Polish and a red hen.


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## robin416

Heck, if he's comfy and they don't mind I would leave him there. No stress as he recovers.


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## seminole wind

pblanton, sorry about the Marans and Marek's. Most of my chickens are vaccinated now, a few old ones are not. 

I think that the stress or injury has caused him to have the wry neck. He could be prone to it due to Marek's exposure even if vaccinated. Stress can bring out symptoms of Marek's.

I also wonder if he has seizures. Once a day or less often I find him with his eyes closed and neck twisted, then he's right back to normal. It's kind of odd.


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## seminole wind

robin416 said:


> Heck, if he's comfy and they don't mind I would leave him there. No stress as he recovers.


He's got a fence around his nest/file box. There does not seem to be any interest between them other than he's a roo and wants to be friends, LOL.


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## robin416

Always a positive sign when a boy is paying attention to nearby females.


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## seminole wind

Well he decided to jump over the wire and get in with the 2 hens. It doesn't look like anything is going on, they all run from eachother. He's acting normal. Hope he continues to.


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## seminole wind

Trying to get pics up


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## seminole wind

trying...........


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## seminole wind

trying.....
I have to use a new memory card because this one ain't working


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## robin416

He just might be one of those that can't handle stress of any kind.


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## seminole wind

Well the red hen was chasing him around. So I put him in with Psycho hen and her sister, and he's been doing the dance for them and they walk away from him. So it's good he's the chaser because he can't run fast.


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## robin416

Do you lose your e cig very often? 

If he's happy and not stressed then he may have landed where he was meant to be.


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## chickenqueen

He's a cutie!!!I've always wanted a couple of Silkies but they are just too small for my tastes.I hope your boy continues to recover.He looks very happy!!!


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## seminole wind

Robin, I never lose it except for those age related memory lapses where you put something down and can't remember where.

Things took a turn for the worse. Something ripped his face up. The hens are on top of a dog house type box, and I went out and put him in the nest underneath last night. I go out there this morning and feathers everywhere and he's there with a swollen face. 

I can't imagine what it was since the hens were on top and I have 5 silkies in the attached pen that sleep on a piece of wood on the ground.


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## dawg53

Sorry to hear that Karen, maybe a rat. Can you post a pic?


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## seminole wind

I'll get a pic tomorrow. He has big head/face swelling that has swelled his eyes closed. His comb looks somewhat damaged and his feathers on the head and face are gone. There is one small puncture mark under his jaw. He's extremely responsive so I thought I'd leave him alone. I did wash his face.

I had locked them up at 830 pm. At 1230, I go to check on them and he's rested himself by the door. I move him to a nest that's on the ground inside a 1/2 doghouse-slapped together and the girls sleep on it's roof. It's about 3 feet high. 

I don't get that right in the next pen are 5 silkies on a log on the ground and nothing has happened to them. (Tonight they are sharing an enclosed hardware cloth pen) They have lived like that in the pen for 2 years. I ordered them a safer smaller pen for nights to put it inside their own pen.


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## seminole wind

I am getting the "safe" small pen today or tomorrow. It's great that I can build it in the large pen under the tarp.

My little man is still holding on. His eyes are still shut. I'm dissolving an aspirin and will be getting e-lytes today. I may have to bite the bullet and tube him. I will put salve on his face. 

Due to the swelling and pain should I leave him in 90 degree with humidity or move him to 75 degrees with low humidity?


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## robin416

Too hard to say. Not seeing what he looks like makes it harder to know which would be better. Being a silkie he would appreciate the cooler, dryer air but will it make it more difficult when it's time to go back out?


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## dawg53

I've brought injured birds inside for treatment. If anything, no flies or gnats can attack.
It's simply easier for me to work on the bird inside. 
Birds can adjust to temperature extremes...like overnight cold fronts passing through in winter. Brrrr.


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## seminole wind

I washed his face and put Neosporin on it. He has one eye unstuck but keeps closed. His one sinus on the side between the beak and the eye looks indented. I tubed 30 ml of water, with aspirin and Kaytee hand feeding but not much. 

It "looks" like if he would have gotten his head caught through a 2x2 inch fencing and 2 silkies attacked him from the other side . That's what it looks like. But then I can't explain the amount of feathers in the nest where he was. If he was pulled on that much, he may have been pulled far from the nest. I can't say that a hawk or owl went thru an open door into a pen and grabbed him. 

I think I'm done with chickens. It's just too painful this past year. For 8 years I had no problems, now 2 years it's caught up with me. Seems too many have been caused by my ignorance and I'm just emotionally exhausted.

I hate to whine about me when my silkie is so injured.

I think when the neighbor had chickens that were so easy for animals to catch at night in the coop they no longer have chickens and now the wild animals have their attention on me.


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## seminole wind

robin416 said:


> Too hard to say. Not seeing what he looks like makes it harder to know which would be better. Being a silkie he would appreciate the cooler, dryer air but will it make it more difficult when it's time to go back out?


Thank god it's cooler out today with thunderstorms. I'm not sure yet until it gets hot again.


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## seminole wind

pics..........


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## robin416

If he's in a secure area I would give him time. I have no idea what got at him but I don't see from the pics anything that is not recoverable from. His issue is that he's had his behind kicked so many times in such a short time.

Again, there is no way to really know if he has some other hidden issue going on or not. If he was mine, I would give him time. But that's the decision I would make. 

We've all faced challenges with these guys. They are targets for just about anything and why I've always been so paranoid about where my birds are and what is near them. But being like that meant I also lost out on some of the care free keeping. Now I'm obsessing over where my keets are.


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## dawg53

I echo what Robin stated. I know you're frustrated Karen. Everything is perfectly normal and then all of a sudden everything goes to pot. I've had it happen many times and like you, thought about throwing in the towel.
I guarantee you that every chicken owner has thought about throwing in the towel one time or another. It seems to happen all at once.
All you can do is do the best you can with them; nothing more, nothing less.
Consider giving him amoxicillin mixed with water orally or an injection of penicillin if you're able to.
Hang in there, he'll recover.


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## seminole wind

He's hanging in there. He can open one eye right now. I tubed him twice. He changes position several times during the day. From tubing his crop and trachea seem okay. He must still be in shock.

He just looks so sad I can't stop crying. I'm just not dealing with this very well. There is no sign of anything at the walls of the pen, or any kind of footprints. There is just nothing.

If he survives, he gets all 3 girls to himself. 
I wonder if a snake could do that?


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## seminole wind

dawg53 said:


> I echo what Robin stated. I know you're frustrated Karen. Everything is perfectly normal and then all of a sudden everything goes to pot. I've had it happen many times and like you, thought about throwing in the towel.
> I guarantee you that every chicken owner has thought about throwing in the towel one time or another. It seems to happen all at once.
> All you can do is do the best you can with them; nothing more, nothing less.
> Consider giving him amoxicillin mixed with water orally or an injection of penicillin if you're able to.
> Hang in there, he'll recover.


I can start antibiotics.


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## dawg53

I dont think a snake could do this to him. The feather loss is unexplainable.
I had an incident where a yellow rat snake pulled an adult Buff Orpington hen off her roost out into the pen at night. 
She was screaming bloody murder and I ran outside to the pen and saw what had happened. I killed the snake and brought the hen inside to inspect her. She was shaken up but otherwise ok. 
There was no feather loss in the incident. She laid an egg the next day.
Other pullets and cockerals that I lost to snakes, there wasnt any feather loss.


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## seminole wind

I've been reading a lot of snake/chicken stories where a snake attempts to swallow a chicken and can't and what ends up is finding a chicken with slime or goo or wet feathers from the shoulders up, suffocated. Otherwise, wouldn't a predator kill or eat or rip up a chicken? Wouldn't there be blood?


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## robin416

It's the feather thing and the trauma to his head. I've had one killed that way by a snake, there were no missing feathers just a head and part of the neck covered in slime.


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## dawg53

You're right about the snake sliming a bird that it cant swallow. The neck feathers are matted down too. That's how I found each of my 3 cockerals, 1 dead each morning over 3 days. I finally caught the snake and killed it.
I honestly dont believe your bird would be alive if a **** or possum got ahold of it. I'm still thinking maybe a rat.
Can you set out a couple of rat traps after dark and check them before first light the next morning? Cheese works great.


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## robin416

Or put the trap under cover where the birds can't get at it. Or just outside the pen?


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## seminole wind

dawg53 said:


> You're right about the snake sliming a bird that it cant swallow. The neck feathers are matted down too. That's how I found each of my 3 cockerals, 1 dead each morning over 3 days. I finally caught the snake and killed it.
> I honestly dont believe your bird would be alive if a **** or possum got ahold of it. I'm still thinking maybe a rat.
> Can you set out a couple of rat traps after dark and check them before first light the next morning? Cheese works great.


Wow, 3 dead slimed cockerals! I could put a rat trap out. I have had bait stations out for over 2 years, and no grain left out at night, and have seen very little signs of rats. But putting the trap out is easy.


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## chickenqueen

Sem,right now you're a little overwhelmed.Take a step back,focus on your injured boy and the others.Things will get better.I felt like that when I lost almost 60 chickens one morning.I felt like quitting but then I thought about my life without the chickens.That was more depressing than losing the chickens.So hang in there,you can always throw in the towel later if you decide to.


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## dawg53

chickenqueen said:


> Sem,right now you're a little overwhelmed.Take a step back,focus on your injured boy and the others.Things will get better.I felt like that when I lost almost 60 chickens one morning.I felt like quitting but then I thought about my life without the chickens.That was more depressing than losing the chickens.So hang in there,you can always throw in the towel later if you decide to.


Almost 60 chickens? Holy cow. A pack of dogs?


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## chickenqueen

1 dog.2 days later it went to another house and killed over 60 more.The dog warden was just concerned if my dogs were licensed.The fact a dog was running loose killing chickens was not a problem for them.Out of 36 penned juveniles,3 survived and I lost most of my free range adults.I was gone for 1.5 hours.The dog was still here when I got home and I found out who owned it.Between that incident and the next door neighbor's dog coming 5 times,killed 7 chickens and bit me and I called the dog warden each time like a good citizen,but they didn't do anything.Nothing!!!That's when I decided to quit calling the useless authorities and shoot the dogs though they tried to tell me I couldn't do that.I told them I could and will and they couldn't stop me.I know my rights.I've got 4 notches on my stock and no more dog problems except for the occasional dump offs.And now my neighbors think I'm crazy but that's ok with me as long as they keep their dogs at home.Or I'll shoot them.I was laughed at until the neighbors found out I can hit a moving target.LOL I keep the 20ga locked and loaded at the front door and the 12ga at the back and the .22 right next to where I sit.I'm always ready and armed and I can still move really fast if I have to.


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## seminole wind

I'm so so sorry. I don't know how you got thru all that. 
I can't imagine going thru that.

I know what you mean about wanting to give up. Maybe it's time to let mine go. 
I may lose 4 more this year due to old age. I think that's easier to handle . I should really force myself to get out of the house today. I think I've left the property once in the last 2 weeks. I have not seen my horse in 3 weeks.


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## dawg53

CQ. I remember that you mentioned this before. I didnt know how many birds you lost. Like you, I have guns loaded and ready to go.


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## seminole wind

The little guy was just suffering too much and I euthanized him. I checked his whole body for anything. His body is clean. No signs of any damage. His neck skin looks to be intact and the outer feathers on the neck have a reddish color to them like he got dirty. But he has some broken feathers. His face looked like it was one big scab . Not normal smooth skin. It was black and had the appearance of skin that had been burned. I can't imagine what would attack his face and not anything else. The only odd thing I see where he slept is about 50 of those ant eater bug indents. 
So I have him wrapped and will mail him to the lab tomorrow. I do need to know why this happened.


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## seminole wind

If these chickens all had black skin and black pox, would they look the same?


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## dawg53

I'm sorry about having to put him down Karen 
He didnt have pox. The color of fowl pox lesions vary. There isnt a specific color no matter what color the skin is. Fowl pox can even show up on the legs.


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## seminole wind

Thanks, Dawg. He hung on for a long time.


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## dawg53

seminolewind said:


> The only odd thing I see where he slept is about 50 of those ant eater bug indents.
> So I have him wrapped and will mail him to the lab tomorrow. I do need to know why this happened.


Those ant eater cones in the ground are called Ant Lions. When an ant walks into the cone, the ant lion 'shovels' dirt at the ant trying to crawl out of the cone and escape. But the dirt being shoveled causes the ant to slip to the bottom of the cone where the ant lion grabs him
and devours the ant. 
Ant lions wont harm chickens.
Catch a fire ant and put it in one of those cones and watch the ant lion eat it.


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## seminole wind

Ant lions are cool. 

It will be good to send him to a lab.


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## chickenqueen

After several bad incidents,I continue to keep chickens but only a couple dozen or so.Got the baby monitor in the coop and I can even hear the geese at the pond if they honk and I have 2 birds that holler when a strange animal is in the yard.Last night I realized I was missing 2,gotta do a head count this morning.Yesterday I noticed the next door neighbor chickens are gone,too,all of them.I saw a fox a couple of months ago,I wonder if it's still around.I'm sitting out back with the shotgun for the eclipse,I want to see what the chickens/geese do and watch for predators.Then me and the dog are going fox hunting.....


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## dawg53

Karen, like CQ mentioned, maybe a baby monitor or two might be a good idea.
If you would, let us know the lab results. Do you send him to Kissimmee or Tifton?


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## seminole wind

I'll be sending to Kissimmee. I will post the info as I get it. I think it's great when people share their lab results. We have so little information about pet chickens. The lab usually updates me along the way as the tests are run.


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## dawg53

I've only submitted one bird, years ago to Tifton. It was a rooster, ecoli got him.


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## seminole wind

I had one die from Aspergillosis and cocci enteritis, one die from Cappilaria worm damage /e. coli enteritis, one from a rare liver cancer.


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## seminole wind

The lab received the body. I should hear something on Friday, even if it's just by eye.


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## Maryellen

I'm sooo sorry . (((Hugs)))

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## seminole wind

Here's a buff


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## seminole wind

Here's the first report. The true download is at the end to click on. I am surely wondering what did this, but never touched the 5 silkies in the next pen that have been there for 1.5 years.

FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE & CONSUMER SERVICES Bronson Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory 2700 North John Young Parkway Kissimmee FL 34745-8006 Phone: (321) 697-1400 Fax: (321) 697-1467
Report Date: 8/24/2017
Preliminary Report
Date Received: 8/23/2017 Collection Date: 8/20/2017
Case Coordinator: Mamoon Rashid, DVM, MSc, MS Accession No: K1708792
KAREN

Purpose of Test Diagnostic-Necropsy-Poultry Necropsy
Animal Information Chicken - Silkie 1
Lab Findings Necropsy Specimen Test Name Chicken - AVIAN - Chicken - Silkie - Male - 2 Years Animal-Dead - 1 Gross Exam Poultry Presented for necropsy is a 2-month-old, 0.3 kg, male, Silkie (chicken) in good body condition with healthy looking keel bone and pectoral muscles. There ae bite wounds on the face, neck with an infected wound (0.7 cm) on the left ear. Oral cavity contains thick white-yellow mucoid material, similar material also found in the esophagus, most likely stomach contents. Crop, ventriculus and proventriculus are with in normal limits. Ceca are sporadically distended. Kidneys are dark red in color and are swollen. Sciatic nerve grossly appear normal. Testes are congested and markedly enlarged. All other organs have no significant lesions.
Preliminary Gross Morphologic Diagnosis Face, wounds, swollen, septic, sinusitis Ceca, distended, coccidian, mild Testes, congested, enlarged, bilateral, marked
Segments of tissue submitted for histopathology. Feces submitted for fecal exam. Tracheal swab submitted for Mycoplasma, AI, and END PCR. Differentials include, but are not limited to, infectious wounds, Mycoplasmosis,
Accession Number: K1708792 Preliminary (8/24/2017) Page 1 of 2
Specimen Test Name Salmonella infection, and coccidiosis.
Pending Tests Test/Panel Pending UnReviewed Bacteriology/Mycology Aerobic Culture 2 (Chicken) 0
Client Report History Report Type Delivery Method Sent To Date Sent Preliminary Email [email protected] 8/24/2017 1:56 PM
Bulletin(s) For information on sample collection, submission, cost and turnaround time, please visit the laboratory main web page at www.FreshFromFlorida.com/BADDL.
In an effort to enhance the convenience of our lab testing services provided to you, BADDL is pleased to announce the utilization of the UPS to offer a Laboratory Sample Shipping Service. This service will provide a more affordable and reliable way to ship your samples to the laboratory, in as little as one day. You can now purchase discounted, prepaid, preaddressed UPS Ground and Next Day Air Shipping Labels online. The cost of shipping will be invoiced to your account.
UPS Ground Shipping Labels $7.00 - Packages weighing less than 40 lbs., within Florida, east of the Apalachicola River, will be delivered within one day.
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To take advantage of this affordable service: 1. Visit www.FreshFromFlorida.com/BADDL 2. Click on link "Create Shipping Label" 3. The cost of shipping will be charged to your invoice
Accession Number: K1708792 Preliminary (8/24/2017)


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## seminole wind

Nice that next time I can download a shipping label for 1/2 of what I paid. Bargain!


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## robin416

It's beginning to look more and more like dawg was right.


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## Maryellen

A rat did it?

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## seminole wind

Yea it does look more like what Dawg guessed.
Maryellen, Dawg guessed a rat.


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## dawg53

I'm looking forward to the rest of the tests results, how long will it take Karen?


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## seminole wind

I think it might take up to 2 weeks with cultures. But I usually get an update in between.


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## chickenqueen

Time to put poison out.I read rats will go on a "feeding frenzy" and will kill a coop full of birds.And they have diseases and parasites.When I had rats under the coop,the chickens got bugs really bad and it took forever to get rid of them.I had to move the coop and put smoke bombs in all the rat holes.I got to have fun and shot them as they crawled out.I reckon you know if there is 1 rat,there are probably more.Good luck!!!


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## Maryellen

So the rat attacked a silkie and the rat bite got infected from rat and he died. Wow. I wonder if that is what happened to my rooster, his face was all swollen and was missing feathers from his front neck area ,I have been treating him with antibiotics and cold compresses on his face for the swelling to go down. My first thought was a rat but this coukd confirm it.. we are going to load smoke bombs to flush any out and kill them.

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## seminole wind

Wow Maryellen, sounds similar. I wonder how a chicken just sits there while his face is bitten up. You would think they would make a ruckus and flap around. I still wonder about the snake scenario. I hope they get back to me soon with info on the bites.
He went from perfectly fine and running around, eating, drinking, crowing, to near death overnight, and never recovered. And sitting in the same spot he was put in.


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## seminole wind

I have 3 bait stations and lock up all the feed at night. I do think that works better than smoke bombs. Eventually the bait stops getting eaten for a while. I'm glad my a$$wipe neighbor has no chickens anymore-he left feed spewed all over the inside of his coop.


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## dawg53

seminolewind said:


> Wow Maryellen, sounds similar. I wonder how a chicken just sits there while his face is bitten up. You would think they would make a ruckus and flap around. I still wonder about the snake scenario. I hope they get back to me soon with info on the bites.
> He went from perfectly fine and running around, eating, drinking, crowing, to near death overnight, and never recovered. And sitting in the same spot he was put in.


I doubt it was a snake. A snake wouldve constricted/suffocating your roo to death.


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## Maryellen

I found mork sitting in the rain in the run. His face was all swollen, head and neck was really bad. I almost lost him . He still isn't out of the woods yet. I'm wondering if it was a rat or something tried to grab him at night thru the kennel fencing . He normally sleeps in the coop but for whatever reason he started sleeping outside in the covered run. His neck looked like a meat grinder caught it

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## seminole wind

OMG! That's terrible. I hope he makes it. I really can't discount a snake if he did smother it but not completely to death. He also looked slimed above the shoulders. I really am anxious to find out what it was especially to protect the other chickens.
I seem to have a very hard time with silkies over the years. Every death was very painful.


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## seminole wind

I got the final result but can't seem to copy it.
So,
He died from septicemia r/t infected facial wounds and secondary Coccidiosis (Eimeria)

It did not say what kind of bite marks so I called the number and left a message for the MD. It did not say what kind of infection.

I just don't know what to think anymore.


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## robin416

Think about what? I'm confused. It appears he was bitten by something and it became infected. In the past couple of weeks I read something about rats having a ton of bacteria in their mouths that is easily transmitted to anything living they bite. And evidently it's something that even if the rat is a pet is there.


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## seminole wind

Well he could have said that the bites appear to be from insects, snakes, rats, or whatever else. I would like to know because I have other chickens.


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## robin416

OK, that's more clear.


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## dawg53

Not only rats, but most predators including snakes have mouth's loaded with bacteria.
What I'm kind of surprised about is how quickly the bites became infected because he was healthy that evening, right Karen? Perhaps his immune system wasnt up to par?


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## chickenqueen

Wow!!!I thought of my hen whose back was torn off by a dog last Dec.It didn't get infected and I could see bone and tissue.Is a dog's mouth really clean like they say?The only antibiotic I used was in the ointment I packed her wound with.I think I'll put extra poison out this year for the rodents......


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## seminole wind

dawg53 said:


> Not only rats, but most predators including snakes have mouth's loaded with bacteria.
> What I'm kind of surprised about is how quickly the bites became infected because he was healthy that evening, right Karen? Perhaps his immune system wasnt up to par?


I can't figure it out either. I can assume he was immune compromised from Marek's exposure and having coccidiosis. And he was started on antibiotics right away and ointment. Snakes do have a lot of mouth bacteria. I know my Boston terrier got a snake bite on his face and it swelled up and got infected and we went to the vent.

Here's before and after pics, two taken in the afternoon and one taken the next day


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## Maryellen

Cats and rats have the most dirty mouths besides hela,monster lizards and kamodo,dragons

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## dawg53

Is that favus on his ear lobe or natural color?
He got mangled pretty bad, poor guy.


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## robin416

Silkies have blue earlobes. Stands out quite a bit on the whites.


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## dawg53

robin416 said:


> Silkies have blue earlobes. Stands out quite a bit on the whites.


Ok. I'll remember that, never owned them.


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## robin416

dawg53 said:


> Ok. I'll remember that, never owned them.


Sure you will.


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## nannypattyrn

Blue ear lobes= blue eggs??

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## robin416

Nope, very light cream to tan eggs.


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## seminole wind

I called the central lab last week but no call back. I called the lab where the roo went yesterday and they were very nice and I should expect a call back today. I think there's a good chance he'll remember the chicken.


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## seminole wind

The DVM called me back and spoke to me for an hour about the Physiology of infections. His theory is that the roo did not develop the bites overnight. He must had them for a few days to a week. He assumed that the other roos did it to him.

Which means that I didn't notice bites for a whole week? Maybe those other roos did more damage than bully him? He said the most damage was his ear got infected. 
It was supposed by the DVM that some chicken bit his ear and maybe the side of his face, and over a week, he looked like he was getting better when he was actually getting sick from infection. But getting infected like that did not happen overnight. I look over my pictures and see that I have no left side pictures-where the infected ear was. So I guess it was not a snake or a rat.


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## dawg53

Strange theory, but does that mean you didnt see the injuries for up to a week? 
I'm not so sure Karen. I've known you for a long time and you're a chicken micromanager.
You dont miss much when it comes to chickens.


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## robin416

Two things come to mind, the first is older eyes. OK, I have cataracts which cuts my near vision by quite a bit but just the fact that our eyes are aging makes it harder to spot very small problems.

The second, is looking for zebras when hearing hooves. This is why I always recommend standing back and observing. Watch behavior, movements, flock participation. 

Combine those two things and we all just might as well go home.


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## seminole wind

I am very good at tunnel vision. Day one I found him mashed into a corner with a wry neck. There was no blood. He went in a small pen inside the coop where my Polish rooster could have very well got a few bites in since the fencing was not hardware cloth. Bottom line is he got an injured ear, and possibly some bites on his face and chest days before he had a swollen face. Maybe black silkie faces are difficult to see damage on especially when one is not looking for it. The vet said it's very unlikely he got that swollen face and looking sick overnight. The vet thinks that as the infection grew, he was also being attacked by Coccidia most likely from stress. And I guess we all know that chickens hide their sickness. 

I think my 2 Houdans will go back to their pen. They are in a coop and pen we don't use because it's easy to be overlooked. 

Jim, micromanage is one, however It can lead to tunnel vision and I was so happy his wry neck was gone.


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## robin416

Yeah, that black skin doesn't help much. I know I missed mites on one of mine because of the black skin. Just no contrast there to be able to spot them easily.

My vet said the same thing, cocci multiply like mad when a bird is ill. I guess you could consider that a secondary infection.


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## seminole wind

On a black face there may have not been much to see. I hate hindsight.


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## seminole wind

Maryellen, how's Mork? A picture?


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## Maryellen

Mork is all healed and back in the coop. He Looks like nothing happened now. I also use raw honey to treat wounds,it's a natural antibiotic. Not store honey , but honey from friends of mine that are bee keepers

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## Maryellen

Here he is from just now, he has one spot on his neck that is taking a bit longer to heal but no one is bothering it



















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## seminole wind

Thanks. He's a handsome roo. I'm glad he healed and is back to normal.


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## oldhen2345

Maryellen said:


> A rat did it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Chicken Forum mobile app


I had rats in my chicken coop- big suckers. they were eating the food at night, then they stayed around in the morning- ugh!! I tried picking up all the food, but they stayed and rummaged around in my Baby barn- where I keep the ones too young to go in the big coop. I made a rat box- just screwed 3 2x4's into a U shape (each board about 2 ft long), then screwed a lid on the box (treated wood left over from repairs)- with a 6 inch overhang over the open section. I put this up against a fence. I mixed dry feed with quik crete concrete and put it in a saucer inside the box (I added a couple tablespoons sugar for good measure). I put a retaining wall stone on top to keep it from moving. After a week, no rats, no smell, no bodies. Periodically I have to renew the feed/concrete / sugar but works like a charm. It isn't a poison, so carrion feeders can eat the carcasses. Birds, dogs, cats can't reach inside- win - win.


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## Maryellen

Old hen I sent you a private message

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