# What DE Really Is, uses



## ChickenMansion (Jul 12, 2012)

*Fossils*, is what it is. This is a link to a great article on DE. All new chicken owners need to know what DE is and use it. You can purchase Diotomacious Earth (DE) online, local farm or tractor supply, not sure about UK. DE is a must for controlling pest: flies, bugs, mites, lice, ticks, internal parrasites, worms, etc. _*Application:*_ I wait until my girls are out of the coop, dawn on eye protection, grab handfuls and toss, heavily powder floor. I put it on my bedding, in my boxes and also have a cat pan/box with DE in it. For the DE cat box, the birds will dust bathe in it, keep it in cool dry location. Some people mix ash or light sterile dirt in the cat box with the DE, I use it straight. _*Internal/feed:*_ DE is a natural wormer/parrasites, about a cup to 50 lbs of food, read the package or google the dosage. _*When:*_ I recommend giving this at 4 -6 weeks of age, once birds are outside. I dust about every 2 weeks, most heavily when I change bedding. _*Caution Note:*_ eye and respiratory irritant, never and issue with the my birds, and I use it heavily in the coop. I use eye wear and don't breathe it in. I even dust bathed my puppy in it, before she was old enough for flea and tick. _*Others:*_ Puppy, Patches, came from a farm and was loaded with ticks/fleas; DE and a tick comb did the trick. You can use it on most live stock, internal dosing to feed varies, see package. You can also use it to scrub items, houshold, pool etc., cooktops, it is a great cleanser, just scrub, wipe up and polish off residue. I use it on my glass cooktop and then polish off with windex. Please share anyother uses you've found, thanks.

What's DE: http://www.squidoo.com/fossilflour
How much DE: http://www.squidoo.com/fossilflour#module28312712
Also: http://www.richsoil.com/diatomaceous-earth.jsp


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## Sundancers (Jun 20, 2012)

Sorry ... I did try it but ... no.

I used it with the goats, sheep and for fleas ...

I know a lot of folks that use it ... but I could not tell a difference...

Sorry ...


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## Apyl (Jun 20, 2012)

I've never used it and dont plan to.


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## havasu (Jun 21, 2012)

I use it for my pool and it works quite well as a filtering substrate.


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## Elkie1 (Jul 14, 2012)

Don't use pool DE for anything but the pool....it has other chemicals in it.

I use DE (foodgrade) around my house and in my garden for insect control. I use it in my coop (heavily) chicken feed and dog feed. Some swear by it and others don't. We all consume it and don't know it...It's mixed in flour and other products as an anti-caking agent. Below is a website that talks about all the different uses and suggested daily doses. You can also find/buy it under the name fossil flour. And Yes, I also take it internally but not daily, usually because I forget. I've also used it as a blood cloating agent on those occassions I trim the dog nails too short or cut myself shaving my legs.

http://www.earthworkshealth.com/


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## Elkie1 (Jul 14, 2012)

P.S. I find it best as a preventative/deterrent, when it comes to fleas/bugs. It doesn't kill the bugs dead, it takes a day or two and then more are still hatching. So if you don't use it long enough to break the cycle, you'll think it doesn't work. The nice thing is it's chemical free and completely non-toxic. For those worried about inhaling it, it has the same precautions as talcum/baby powder and that stuff is loaded with chemicals! I even use it on my birds regularly for lice, etc. You can probably get faster results with chemicals but I try to avoid chemicals.


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## cgmccary (Jun 25, 2012)

Sorry, I disagree about Diatomaceous Earth. D.E. is all hype. Years ago I bought into the hype. I used food-grade DE religiously, in the nest boxes, the chicken's dusting holes, in the coop, about the run, etc. I even added it to their feed (teaspoon per cup) & dusted the birds themselves with it. They still got mites. After they got mites, I completely dusted some birds with it from head to toe, and it failed to kill the mites. They had so much DE on them that when they shook, it created a white cloud.

My birds still got worms too when I was using DE in their feed. I never believed it as a wormer. Internal parasites have evolved for many tens of thousands of years to inhabit a bird's digestive tract. Believe me, a little DE is not going to do the trick. Better as a natural dewormer is cayenne pepper powder or tobacco leaf stems [or chewing tobacco] (tobacco can serve as a natural deterrent against mites & lice too). Neither of these are end all cures but their is research backing up their effectiveness.

DE DOES NOT DO ANYTHING GOOD DIRT OR FINE SAND WILL NOT DO. Dust bathing with good dirt is a preventative generally against external parasites in poultry but will not keep your birds from getting mites. If you have not gotten mites before, then you are lucky, that's all.

Before I was in the profession I am in now, I was a geologist and specialized in micropaleontology (so diatoms, forams, conodonts were the things I studied). I've looked at sand grains too & they are just as angular and sharp as diatoms under the microscope. If anything, the DE is a finer particulate and therefore easily sucked in a breath to your lungs, the chicken's lung & could do more harm than say, sand or good dirt in the dust hole. Diatoms make their skeletons out of silica (SiO2) i.e. Quartz -- same as white beach sand -- DE is just finer than sand-size.

I attempted to use DE on fire ant beds to see it it worked. I have buried fire ant beds with the DE, and the ants survived & just incorporated it into their hills.


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## earlyt89 (Aug 2, 2012)

I use DE in my chicken and dog food. Dust the coop, run, and my shed with it. It helps with me.


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## Mamachickof14 (Aug 28, 2012)

*What do you use?*



Apyl said:


> I've never used it and dont plan to.


 I'm just learning...don't have any problems but would like to be prepared! What do you use? Jen


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## BootedBantam (Aug 31, 2012)

Yeah, I was waiting for an explanation on DE, seen some articles that talk about it, but still was curious, Not sure if I am gonna use it, need more chicken 
reasearch. Thank you for links.

P.S. There is a lot of "hype" in chickland. Educate yourself and decide what is best for your chickens.


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## UncleJoe (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm another pro DE. One of the goats had mites something terrible. We started rubbing him with DE every couple days. After about 2 weeks we saw the first signs of his hair growing back and he was back to his ornery old self.


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## oakwood (Aug 21, 2012)

In the UK DE is the main product used in poultry keeping . 
We use it on our poultry ,in the bedding, nest boxes ,feed and dust bath`s .
Wonderful stuff


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## BootedBantam (Aug 31, 2012)

From what I understand, it is a natural product. Can anyone give me any evidence that DE is bad or harmful? I am also gonna say the source of your DE is important, too. 

I am pretty sure, when and if you do get mites or lice, you will try it. I haven't yet, but want to purchase some for preventive precautions. Thoughts??


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## Energyvet (Jul 25, 2012)

That's my plan.


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## Sundancers (Jun 20, 2012)

BootedBantam said:


> From what I understand, it is a natural product. Can anyone give me any evidence that DE is bad or harmful? I am also gonna say the source of your DE is important, too.
> 
> I am pretty sure, when and if you do get mites or lice, you will try it. I haven't yet, but want to purchase some for preventive precautions. Thoughts??


I used Food grade DE ... but like I said, I saw little difference. It was big in the goat world for a while.


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## anderson8505 (Jul 3, 2012)

I have tried DE, no results for this often expensive product. Back to good old Sevin Dust for me. No issues whatsoever.


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## yag113 (Nov 28, 2012)

What do do? DE or not to DE! I read this thread and am now less decided than before I began reading. A LOT of people have reservations about Sevin Dust and apparently many are anti-DE. I am a wildlife rehabber, plus I have goats and poultry and peafowl and guineas and guinea pigs and doves and more. I like to try and beat back things like flies and lice and worms and all other evil parasites. I am so confused!


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## haley4217 (Dec 30, 2012)

BootedBantam said:


> Yeah, I was waiting for an explanation on DE, seen some articles that talk about it, but still was curious, Not sure if I am gonna use it, need more chicken
> reasearch. Thank you for links.
> 
> P.S. There is a lot of "hype" in chickland. Educate yourself and decide what is best for your chickens.


Educate yourself is the best answer so far on this thread. Like others I us DE for my animals and my garden. First thing, it's not a chemical so it won't work quickly. When I was researching it as a wormer, the consensus was that you needed to keep using it for two to four weeks to break the chain of worms. Same with external pests, it's gonna take time. Now, do your iwn research but in my experience it has been a safe ad natural way to combat pest. But, I continue to use it after the infestation is gone to control the vermin before they get established. Always use food grade DE on anything that produce your food. If you have asthma or other pulmonary problems be careful and use a mask when you are applying it.

That reminds me I had better go out On my way! De in the coop, weather is warming and flies ar going o star showing up.


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## Energyvet (Jul 25, 2012)

I like DE. I think the chemicals in 7 are scary. And I'm a scientist.


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## Sundancers (Jun 20, 2012)

Energyvet said:


> I think the chemicals in 7 are scary. And I'm a scientist.


Impressive!

Would that be a scientist of chemical compounds?


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## yag113 (Nov 28, 2012)

I think I'll give it a shot. As a starting place, clean the chicken house and put the DE under the shavings... or on top of? In addition, put a box with DE for dust bathing? Dust the birds themselves? Put it in the food as well? My flock goes out during the day, in the outdoor pen or more frequently out in the yard. Would it be practicle or useful to put DE in the dirt where they dust bathe, those charming holes that appear on lawn, in garden and flower beds, or is that futile.And forgive me for getting off topic (DE), but what about other products? Does anyone have something for mites or other crawling creatures that they love and feel strongly about? Drugs, water additives, etc. I do not have any out of the ordinary issues but like I said I like to keep the little nasties in check. I get fly predators in the warm months but getting back to DE, if it helps with flies I'm excited about it! I purchased a 6lb thing of Red Lake Easth DE with calcium, 12 $. Was this expensive? Am I going to need more? Does it come in giant bags? Am I asking way too many questions for one post? LOL!


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## haley4217 (Dec 30, 2012)

yag113 said:


> I think I'll give it a shot. As a starting place, clean the chicken house and put the DE under the shavings... or on top of? In addition, put a box with DE for dust bathing? Dust the birds themselves? Put it in the food as well? My flock goes out during the day, in the outdoor pen or more frequently out in the yard. Would it be practicle or useful to put DE in the dirt where they dust bathe, those charming holes that appear on lawn, in garden and flower beds, or is that futile.And forgive me for getting off topic (DE), but what about other products? Does anyone have something for mites or other crawling creatures that they love and feel strongly about? Drugs, water additives, etc. I do not have any out of the ordinary issues but like I said I like to keep the little nasties in check. I get fly predators in the warm months but getting back to DE, if it helps with flies I'm excited about it! I purchased a 6lb thing of Red Lake Easth DE with calcium, 12 $. Was this expensive? Am I going to need more? Does it come in giant bags? Am I asking way too many questions for one post? LOL!


1. I sprinkle DE on top. On top of the roost, on top of the wood shavings in the coup. As the flock stirs up and dig in the deep shavings they move the DE down and through the shavings and on to themselves. I believe that dusting the coop and roosts with DE has been very effective in controlling flies.
2. I don't feed DE continuously but will add it to about every third bag of feed.
3. DE can be purchased in 50 lb bags. Shipping does drive up the cost. I buy Permanent-Guard food grade in 50 lb bags. I've been buying on EBay from Wolf Creek Ranch Outlet. A 50 lb bag with shipping is costing $53, which is a very competitive price. I now see that Permanent-Guard has a web site WWW.Perma-Guard.com which gives distributor information all over US.
4. 50 lbs last me abou 8 or 10 months, but I haven't had to use it on my garden in a while. If that changes I might go through 100 lbs a year.


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## Energyvet (Jul 25, 2012)

Yes. I had to take many chemistry, organic chemistry and biochemistry courses before and after Vet School. As well as toxicology classes. Also had to be certified to administer chemicals for farm animals and pets. And I hold an active DEA license. Sorry if that intimidates you.


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## Energyvet (Jul 25, 2012)

Just saying... No one on this forum has my permission to bully me, make fun of me, or put me down. Got it? 

So knock it off.


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## Sundancers (Jun 20, 2012)

Energyvet said:


> Yes. I had to take many chemistry, organic chemistry and biochemistry courses before and after Vet School. As well as toxicology classes. Also had to be certified to administer chemicals for farm animals and pets. And I hold an active DEA license. Sorry if that intimidates you.


No, I'm not intimidated ... but as you spoke of the chemicals in 7 dust, I was going to ask you to explain why or which, you were most scared of.



Energyvet said:


> Just saying... No one on this forum has my permission to bully me, make fun of me, or put me down. Got it?
> 
> So knock it off.


I was not being a bully, nor did I make fun of you nor put you down. So I guess I will look it up for myself.

Thanks ...


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## yag113 (Nov 28, 2012)

Darn...my post just disappeared. Anyway getting back the matter at hand...to DE or not... I have some 3 week old chicks in the kitchen that are exhibiting dust bathing behavior. Since they are in the kitchen I wouldn't think they yet have mites but then again I have many creatures come through my kitchen since I do wildlife rehab. I try keep it where it should be but I am not perfect nor do I live in a perfect world so maybe they have mites or do they do dust bathing instinctively? Should I put a dish with DE in their habitat and let them go to town?


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## Energyvet (Jul 25, 2012)

I use a Rubbermaid wash bin. Seems to work. I also use small cat litter pans for treats and such.


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## oldhen2345 (May 14, 2017)

I use DE (food grade) in the coop, nesting areas and dust the chickens with it. I also put a good amount in their "dust bath" pool ( I have a 3 ft square lined with cinder blocks filled with sand, peat and DE). I also give them some on their food as a dewormer. Works for me. I got some chicks from a breeder and had several mite bites on my hands and forearms by the time I got them home and checked over. I powdered the little things with DE and put some on their pine shavings. No more mites. I am not sure if it is definitely a de-wormer, but I give it to the girls anyway- I never have dirty eggs. I don't know how young you can start chicks out eating it, so I wait until they are about 3 months old. I start then then with fermented feed and sprinkle
a little DE on top like powdered sugar on a waffle. Never has hurt them.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Post #7 in this thread says it all. Been there, done that long ago... 35+ years of chicken keeping. DE is useless and a waste of money.


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

dawg53 said:


> Post #7 in this thread says it all. Been there, done that long ago... 35+ years of chicken keeping. DE is useless and a waste of money.


 I've also spent enough time keeping and learning about chickens since 1977. I will always enjoy it. If one considers the intricate workings of a chicken's respiratory system, DE is a detriment to it. I experimented with it for awhile and saw no benefits. There is no credible data through any University poultry station trials that DE has any benefit in the keeping of poultry. Not using it for many years and having healthy hens over a decade in age means I'm doing something right. DE is a snake oil product on the shelves of feed stores and nothing more.


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## oldhen2345 (May 14, 2017)

I use DE in the coop religiously. Before I started, I noticed a lot of mites crawling around the top of the nesting boxes. I got some DE and sprinkled it on the boxes- no more mites. So now, I sprinkle inside the nesting boxes, outside the nesting boxes, the roosts, the bottom of the coop, the dust bath (they have a peat moss and sand dust bath), just everywhere. No more mites. My chickens are clean as a whistle on the outside- now all I have to do is deworm the inside- don't know if DE works for that though. MY understanding of that is that when DE gets wet, it loses it's microscopic sharp edges that tear up mites and fleas. May use Eprinex twice a year.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

True DE doesn't do anything when wet. It's use years ago was sprinkling it around plant to keep the slugs away.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

DE is useless as a wormer. Valbazen, safeguard, pyrantel pamoate and levamisole are excellent poultry wormers. Wazine only gets rid of large roundworms.
Eprinex and ivermectin wont kill poultry worms due to its overuse (resistance) as a miteacide in poultry.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Dawg, wouldn't eprinex and ivermectin be good in a rotating system like we do with horses? I don't like using just one product all the time. I think that causes resistance.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Ivermectin does still work on mites. Per my vet it never worked for worming due to it being formulated for the physiology of mammals.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

In addition to what Robin stated, here are test results regarding ivermectin:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0450.1989.tb00635.x/abstract


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

seminolewind said:


> Dawg, wouldn't eprinex and ivermectin be good in a rotating system like we do with horses? I don't like using just one product all the time. I think that causes resistance.


It's always good to rotate wormers. However I can vouch from personal experience that ivermectin and eprinex are ineffective treating worms in poultry, rotated or not.
Besides Karen, your a valbazen person like me...the best wormer on the market. Albendazole (valbazen) gets them all including eyeworm, gizzard worm and gapeworm.
http://en.aviagen.com/assets/Tech_Center/AA_Technical_Articles/AAServiceBulletinIntestinalWorms.pdf


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## dmkrieg (Jul 11, 2017)

Probably a very stupid question but how do you deworm chickens? Ive rewormed horses, dogs, cats; however, im new to chickens


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

It depends on the wormer you use. Some is mixed in waterers, Wazine is one, some are individually doses. If I remember right, Valbazen is one. When I was still worming my birds and I used the individual doses I mixed the dose into a small amount of Kaytee cage bird feed making a ball. They ate it without a fuss. Having a hundred birds it was just easier to do it that way than to pick each up, force their beak open and dose them.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

You can buy wormers at a feed store. Wazine is mixed in water but only gets rid of large roundworms. Like other animals, chickens can get many different types of worms.
Unfortunately there are very few poultry wormers available. Therefore we have to use wormers that are used for livestock such as Safeguard liquid goat wormer, Valbazen liquid cattle/sheep wormer, pyrantel pamoate liquid or paste, levamisole liquid. These wormers kill the most common types of worms a chicken can get.
Zimectrin Gold and Equimax specifically kills tapeworms.
Mixing wormers in water, such as wazine, isnt very effective because birds may not drink enough of the treated water.
It's best to worm each bird orally using a syringe without a needle. That way you know they get the proper dose.
I worm my birds once a month. Keep in mind that soil conditions determine how often you should worm.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

I start worming in May or June,depending on when it warms up then I worm monthly until the first hard frost.I do it individually and with time,it gets easier.It use to take us 2 days,an hour each day to worm almost 30 chickens.Now we can get them all done in 30 min.I use Valbazen.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Even with large flocks, 100+ for example; there's nothing that says ALL the birds must be wormed in ONE day. 
Half can be done the first day, then the other half the next day. If they are the same breed, they can be separated into two flocks. If that's impossible, use a black felt tip pen and mark the comb indicating the bird has been wormed. Then get the unmarked birds wormed the next day. 
If there's many mixed breeds; worm them by breed. BR's and RIR's the first day, EE's and Sex Links the second day, Stragglers the third day or however one sees fit. Easy peasy.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

With mine they were all Silkies which have black combs.


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