# PET SERAMA



## danathome

I just joined this group today and still looking around the different threads and forums. While I have different breeds and species, it's serama that interest me the most. Are there threads for serama bantams? I do not show the birds I raise, so mine are pets.


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## robin416

That first pic is beyond sweet. 

I don't remember there ever being just a breed thread of any kind for any of the birds. Most get started like this post. 

Are you also going to breed frizzles?


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## danathome

That first pic is beyond sweet. *Thanks. She's quite the pet.*

I don't remember there ever being just a breed thread of any kind for any of the birds. Most get started like this post.*OK.*

Are you also going to breed frizzles? *I have my flock set up genetically to produce frizzle, silkied, and smooth serama chicks.*


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## robin416

I didn't know there was a silkied Serama. 

Is that the last pic? I couldn't decide if it just hadn't finished getting all of its big bird feathers or not.


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## Poultry Judge

I love Seramas!


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## Overmountain1

Seramas are so cool! I love their upright carriage, and perky tails! They reminded me of my Chip til he finished growing too- they're so adorable! Love them. Very pretty birds you have.

Someday.


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## Poultry Judge

And Welcome to the Forum, folks here love to share pics and talk chickens!


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## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> I just joined this group today and still looking around the different threads and forums. While I have different breeds and species, it's serama that interest me the most. Are there threads for serama bantams? I do not show the birds I raise, so mine are pets.
> View attachment 35284
> View attachment 35286
> View attachment 35288


That second pic is adorable!


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> I didn't know there was a silkied Serama.
> 
> Is that the last pic? I couldn't decide if it just hadn't finished getting all of its big bird feathers or not.


Yes. The last picture is a two month old silkied serama cockerel.


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## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Seramas are so cool! I love their upright carriage, and perky tails! They reminded me of my Chip til he finished growing too- they're so adorable! Love them. Very pretty birds you have.
> 
> Someday.


I am very open to egg swaps. Serama are quite unique and come in many colors and feather types.


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## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> That second pic is adorable!


All three are 2 months old and under 6 ounces each. Thank you.


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## Poultry Judge

There are some very interesting Serama clubs and organizations worldwide.


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## Overmountain1

Definitely! We will have to sort that out when they're all at that point, and see where each of our babies came from etc too. 
I'm still waiting on Jackie to lay, and she's 23 weeks now. (She's our crossbreed D'Uccle.) Meh, we shall see!! She will get with the program now, or later.


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## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Definitely! We will have to sort that out when they're all at that point, and see where each of our babies came from etc too.
> I'm still waiting on Jackie to lay, and she's 23 weeks now. (She's our crossbreed D'Uccle.) Meh, we shall see!! She will get with the program now, or later.


My eggs came from Natalie Lacy in WV as did my Call ducks and a few of my newest serama additions. This little guy is from her and will soon become my serama flock leader.







Periodically I look for new genetics to keep the flock strong and healthy.


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## robin416

White birds are my absolute favorite variety. Although I do melt over birds that are white and black too.


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## Overmountain1

We got our last 6 babies from Ideal Poultry in Tx.

D'Uccle feet; So, we noted that Charlie has green feet! I didn't see it til we had him out in the sunshine the other day! I have to get some pics of this... but I'm thinking, as much as we adore our Charlie, he won't be ideal to breed. If we CAN keep him. Charlie would make 3 roos for 5 pullets. We are thinking 2 is more than enough- any thoughts from more experienced owners welcome on this too! They will have a sizeable run and coop, with free range time almost every day. So far has been every single day, but stuff happens. Coop + building combo will hopefully start in next week or two, but, I just wanted to know how others banty Roos have gotten along living together. (Or not)

Edit: I'm not saying I'll never have a Charlie baby in our own flock, simply that I don't think I want to pass the imperfect genetics on anywhere else. Carrying on now....


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## Poultry Judge

If you have enough room and your hens aren't being hassled. Do you have an ABA handbook?, you can start looking things up regarding whether you wish to breed or not.


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## robin416

What PJ said. With careful breeding, birds can be used in a breeding situation when they have desirable traits. 

On living as one happy group, it's the group dynamics that says it can work or not. I could turn several pairs out during the day and have the boys ignore each other. I had a pen of bachelors. But that doesn't always work that way. 

Free ranging was just fine with my gang when their girls were with them. That did not translate to them living together in one pen in harmony.


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## danathome

While I try to follow show standards in breeding, I am more interested in what makes a good pet as most of my babies are sold as pets or to the backyard hobbyist. This is one of my young Phoenix. When this picture was taken he was just 7 months old.










A beautiful snow-white. Absolutely stunning to see him walking over the green lawn. The little stinker just molted and now he's a faded cream yellow/buff. From stunning to blah in a matter of a few weeks!


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## robin416

Talk about eye candy. Even if he's not snowy white now he'd still be stunning.


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## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> There are some very interesting Serama clubs and organizations worldwide.


*Yes, there is. My health keeps me homebound so the only clubs I am in are online ones. With the coronavirus now hitting our community hard, the backyard is as far as I go.*


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## robin416

You know, if you ever decided you wanted any of your birds in a show you can have a surrogate show them for you. I've seen that happen a few times.


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## danathome

We got our last 6 babies from Ideal Poultry in Tx.
*No chance, then, of close genetics between our birds. I look forward to buy/trading.*
D'Uccle feet; So, we noted that Charlie has green feet! I didn't see it til we had him out in the sunshine the other day! I have to get some pics of this... but I'm thinking, as much as we adore our Charlie, he won't be ideal to breed. If we CAN keep him. Charlie would make 3 roos for 5 pullets. We are thinking 2 is more than enough- any thoughts from more experienced owners welcome on this too!*A lot depends on flock dynamics and breed. With my serama and phoenix the roosters get along fairly well and do not over-breed. Still, I limit the number of roosters in order to know parentage and what can be expected with the next generation.* They will have a sizeable run and coop, with free range time almost every day. So far has been every single day, but stuff happens. Coop + building combo will hopefully start in next week or two, but, I just wanted to know how others banty Roos have gotten along living together. (Or not)

Edit: I'm not saying I'll never have a Charlie baby in our own flock, simply that I don't think I want to pass the imperfect genetics on anywhere else. Carrying on now....
*With every sale I make it plain that I do not raise show birds and the genetics of the birds being sold may or may not produce show quality. I sell mostly young chicks between 2 and 4 weeks of age. Every buyer is shown the breeding pens which always clinches the sale. My birds are beautiful and as unique as possible within the boundaries of that breeds' traits.*
















Poor pictures-I'll try again later


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## danathome

Sorry, he isn't white, but still...


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## robin416

Yeah, still. One of the things I found so stunning about my silver spangled Hamburg boys were their long tail feathers. Your guy puts the Hamburg boys to shame.


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## danathome

This Serama rooster is unique in his willingness to more than tolerate his chicks.


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## Overmountain1

How sweet! Love it. What a stellar roo.


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## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> How sweet! Love it. What a stellar roo.


Thank you. There have been times he has raised chicks without the hen. He is very unusual in this. I've had numerous roos that were good with chicks; but never to this extent!


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## robin416

He sounds like the Guinea dad I have this year. I've never had one refuse to leave his mate and keets and actually hunker down for them to warm up. I've had Dads stay with mom the first few days after they hatch but never a week plus or actually warm babies up.


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## danathome

Unusual, for sure.


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## robin416

That means we're special.


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> I didn't know there was a silkied Serama.
> 
> Is that the last pic? I couldn't decide if it just hadn't finished getting all of its big bird feathers or not.











A really horrid picture of Marie but it does show what I wanted. Marie is a product of a smooth feathered hen split to silkied and a frizzle rooster split to silkied. Marie, of course, is a silkied serama, but if you look at her neck you'll see that she has some frizzle effect. I paired her back to her frizzle father and now have two of her chicks in a tub in the kitchen. I'm hoping they will be true "sizzle" serama; silkied and frizzle!








Two of the Wigglebottom clan; Sassy on the left and Heidi on the right. Sassy had puppies yesterday but sadly only one survived-the other two were stillborn. A very sad day yesterday.








Lilli and pups are doing great. We gave one of hers to Sassy to raise.


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## Poultry Judge

Sorry for your loss.


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## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> View attachment 35610
> 
> A really horrid picture of Marie but it does show what I wanted. Marie is a product of a smooth feathered hen split to silkied and a frizzle rooster split to silkied. Marie, of course, is a silkied serama, but if you look at her neck you'll see that she has some frizzle effect. I paired her back to her frizzle father and now have two of her chicks in a tub in the kitchen. I'm hoping they will be true "sizzle" serama; silkied and frizzle!
> View attachment 35612
> 
> Two of the Wigglebottom clan; Sassy on the left and Heidi on the right. Sassy had puppies yesterday but sadly only one survived-the other two were stillborn. A very sad day yesterday.
> View attachment 35614
> 
> Lilli and pups are doing great. We gave one of hers to Sassy to raise.


Dan, forgive me for my lack of knowledge on your "Sizzle" breeding. Is this something other folks are working on too? It is very interesting.


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## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Sorry for your loss.


Thank you. Our dogs are very much part of the family.



Poultry Judge said:


> Dan, forgive me for my lack of knowledge on your "Sizzle" breeding. Is this something other folks are working on too? It is very interesting.


Yes, as I have seen images of sizzle serama on Google, but can find no information on what it takes to produce them.


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## robin416

So, they're calling them Sizzles and not Frizzles? 

PJ can address this better than I can. It sounds like a genetic anomaly that popped up in Frizzle breeding. But the question then is, can a Sizzle and Frizzle be a breeding pair? Or does this go back to needing a smooth feathered parent?

I hate your little girl lost her puppies. It's hard when they never got a chance to be a puppy.


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## danathome

So, they're calling them Sizzles and not Frizzles? *A frizzle has normal feathers that curl-a dominant trait. Some would say I use the term, "sizzle" improperly as it's a breed in progress starting with a cochin/silkie cross that has the silkied and frizzle feathering. I use "sizzle" because it is easier than saying or typing frizzle-silkied serama, that has the same feathered trait as the cochin/silkie birds.*

PJ can address this better than I can. It sounds like a genetic anomaly that popped up in Frizzle breeding. But the question then is, can a Sizzle and Frizzle be a breeding pair? Or does this go back to needing a smooth feathered parent? *I know that frizzle/frizzle produces frazzle-not good. I am sure that sizzle/frizzle would have the same complications-so, yes, a smooth feathered bird needs to be used or a frizzle with a silkied bird. What will happen if the silkied bird has "some" frizzle is what I am doing and wondering about; in a couple weeks I will know as then those two chicks in the kitchen will be feathered well enough to determine if they will be "Sizzle-my version of it"*

I hate your little girl lost her puppies. It's hard when they never got a chance to be a puppy.[/QUOTE]
*Yes, and with each dead puppy, Sassy became more despondent. For a while we worried we might lose her. Thankfully, the third puppy was healthy.*


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## robin416

I've heard the term sizzle so I don't know that you're using it wrong. It's been nine years so I can't even tell you if it was in terms like you're using it. But it fits, so keep using it. It's a good descriptor.

Now I understand why you gave her an extra to raise.


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## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> So, they're calling them Sizzles and not Frizzles? *A frizzle has normal feathers that curl-a dominant trait. Some would say I use the term, "sizzle" improperly as it's a breed in progress starting with a cochin/silkie cross that has the silkied and frizzle feathering. I use "sizzle" because it is easier than saying or typing frizzle-silkied serama, that has the same feathered trait as the cochin/silkie birds.*
> 
> PJ can address this better than I can. It sounds like a genetic anomaly that popped up in Frizzle breeding. But the question then is, can a Sizzle and Frizzle be a breeding pair? Or does this go back to needing a smooth feathered parent? *I know that frizzle/frizzle produces frazzle-not good. I am sure that sizzle/frizzle would have the same complications-so, yes, a smooth feathered bird needs to be used or a frizzle with a silkied bird. What will happen if the silkied bird has "some" frizzle is what I am doing and wondering about; in a couple weeks I will know as then those two chicks in the kitchen will be feathered well enough to determine if they will be "Sizzle-my version of it"*
> 
> I hate your little girl lost her puppies. It's hard when they never got a chance to be a puppy.


*Yes, and with each dead puppy, Sassy became more despondent. For a while we worried we might lose her. Thankfully, the third puppy was healthy.*[/QUOTE]
Regarding Frizzle vs. Frazzle: If you took a sheet of paper, would you be able to sketch a few generations back? I bet you could sort it out and have some accurate trait predictors.


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## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> *Yes, and with each dead puppy, Sassy became more despondent. For a while we worried we might lose her. Thankfully, the third puppy was healthy.*


Regarding Frizzle vs. Frazzle: If you took a sheet of paper, would you be able to sketch a few generations back? I bet you could sort it out and have some accurate trait predictors.[/QUOTE]
*Punnet Squares come in handy to predict what may result in serama pairings, but not sizzle, as I don't know if it's dominant, incomplete dominant, recessive, or the results of modifying genes. A couple years ago I tried to research the topic and found nothing. Now, I've decided it's more fun to figure out on my own. Some of the literature is not always accurate anyway. Years ago, when I researched long tail genetics, it was written that the long tail genes were dominant. Not true. After years of doing crosses I now know that it is a incomplete dominant trait; longtails crosses with other breeds produce tails half way in between the two breeds.*

*These are the chicks that may be sizzle. The bigger one is silkied for sure. One chick is a week older than the other.*

*







*


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## danathome

I wonder what kind off eggs these chicks will lay...


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## robin416

They are so darned sweet. It won't be long and rough and tumble will be breaking out everywhere.


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## danathome

What fun! 8 puppies with 3 older siblings all rough and tumbling together; I do believe I feel more gray hair coming in just at the thought-HA


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## robin416

When mine would get all wound up and get into knock down drag out fights I could tell them to go take a nap and off their little behinds would go to their bed.


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## Poultry Judge

I wasn't referring to Punnet squares. Those are fun and accurate in an idealized world where you have a known genome. I think you are doing what I am doing and what was done a hundred years ago, which was to list the characteristics and sketch them out for yourself.


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## Poultry Judge

Those pups sure are cute!


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## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> I wasn't referring to Punnet squares. Those are fun and accurate in an idealized world where you have a known genome. I think you are doing what I am doing and what was done a hundred years ago, which was to list the characteristics and sketch them out for yourself.


It has been along day and my mind is not grasping the jist of your post.

As to the puppies, just wait, in a couple weeks the puppies will be beyond cute. We're hoping they will be long-haired like the mom and not short-haired like Shorty. Fuzzy puppies are irresistible.


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## robin416

I think what he's saying is punnet squares work when you know the genetic background but not so much when there's other breeds or odd genetic displays. EI, the Silkied Seramas.

I lost my last dog a year ago. I've sworn no more. People posting such adorable pics make it so much harder to stick to what I know is the right decision. Especially if those little puppy babies end up with long hair. I liked my long hair dogs.


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## Slippy

Very nice! 

I wish I knew more about different breeds of chickens but it sure is nice to see everyone's and learn!


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## Poultry Judge

It's an endless lifelong learning curve and there are those of us who get hooked on it. Dan is doing some very interesting old school breeding work! And I'm sure he can tell you that's what it is --work!


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> I think what he's saying is punnet squares work when you know the genetic background but not so much when there's other breeds or odd genetic displays. EI, the Silkied Seramas.*I understood about the Punnet Square but not the rest. This morning, with a clear mind, I do. I' m a morning person. By noon my mind starts getting foggy; a problem with age and health.*
> 
> I lost my last dog a year ago. I've sworn no more. People posting such adorable pics make it so much harder to stick to what I know is the right decision. Especially if those little puppy babies end up with long hair. I liked my long hair dogs.


 *Why "right decision"? I can't imagine not having a dog or two or three.*



Poultry Judge said:


> It's an endless lifelong learning curve and there are those of us who get hooked on it. Dan is doing some very interesting old school breeding work! And I'm sure he can tell you that's what it is --work!


 *But fun work! Another of my project, at this time, is to cross serama and phoenix to see what is dominant, etc.*

*When I crossed silkie and phoenix it showed that crest and feathered feet/toes is dominant. Tail length, skin color, and number of toes is incomplete dominance. Silkied feathering to be recessive-which I already knew.*


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## robin416

Slippy said:


> Very nice!
> 
> I wish I knew more about different breeds of chickens but it sure is nice to see everyone's and learn!


I never knew anything about chickens when I first got into them. All I knew was they were white. Learned a lot within just a couple of years. Especially the fact that not all chickens are white.


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## robin416

danathome said:


> *Why "right decision"? I can't imagine not having a dog or two or three.*
> 
> *But fun work! Another of my project, at this time, is to cross serama and phoenix to see what is dominant, etc.*
> 
> *When I crossed silkie and phoenix it showed that crest and feathered feet/toes is dominant. Tail length, skin color, and number of toes is incomplete dominance. Silkied feathering to be recessive-which I already knew.*


Believe me, it's difficult not having several around. But with me being by myself and the possibility having to be gone at least overnight it's best I not bring another one into the house.


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## Poultry Judge

I go back and forth, I miss having a good farm dog.


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## robin416

If you have good backup if you have to be gone then it's easier. I have to rely on my neighbors to take care of my beasts if I have to be gone. I don't want them to have to since they work.


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## Poultry Judge

Yes, good point, although I'm such a curmudgeon, I haven' spent a night away from the farm in 13 or 14 years, and if I did now, I'd probably worry about everything.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> I never knew anything about chickens when I first got into them. All I knew was they were white. Learned a lot within just a couple of years. Especially the fact that not all chickens are white.


I really do feel like the more I know the less I know. It's such a lifelong learning curve!


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## Poultry Judge

And...I still haven't come to terms with the Zen Egg Koan: "A chicken is an egg's attempt to get to the next egg. Also: "What is the sound of one wing flapping?" Also: "If a tree falls in the woods, does the chicken still hear it while crossing the road?" It makes me feel so miniscule in the poultry universe.


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## robin416

You enjoy twisting my brain in knots, don't you?

I don't plan on being anywhere overnight. But at some point I know that I'll be stuck in the hospital at least one night, maybe more. Stuff happens after you become an adult.


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## Overmountain1

Yeah, I'm struggling with being gone a week myself- we are going on vacation in a couple weeks, and normally my in laws watch our pets, aside from the hermit crabs, which my best friend does. Wellll.... that was before we had chickens. AND my in laws are joining us on this trip for the first half of the week! I have got to figure out what to do for all the animals. (Also have an older mostly blind Lab, poor girl, and the cat that is her BFF.) 
Just for fun, here is a few shots of my biggest girl, Princess. She's super sweet!


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## Poultry Judge

Yes, I hear you, I have the same worries about the animals here. Early retirement and Epilepsy have clipped my wings as far as travel.


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## Poultry Judge

Thanks for the cool pictures!


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## robin416

That's confidence letting one crawl around on such tender skin. 

I was going to ask how big but never mind, seeing it on you really provides a good idea. Unless of course you're a lilliputian human. 

How big can they get?


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## Poultry Judge

Adult Peafowl are about Turkey size. My Eastern Wild Turkeys are about the same size, weight and similar shape to Baby 1. He no longer can perch on Melissa's head but sits in her lap and eats mealworms from a cup. The EWTs have figured this out and go sit on her also.


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## robin416

Doing tours of her and the birds would be the icing on the cake.


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## Overmountain1

Right? My bff and I have decided we should start a petting zoo- she has 4 dogs (2 boxers and 2 Boston terriers) 11 snakes, and varying numbers of rats too! When we add all our random pets together it becomes kinda fun! Lol

Yes, Princess is a sweetie. Who says they can't cuddle?  Hermit Crabs (can) live upwards of 40 years, and they get up to softball size or so, depending on the breed. I have 4 breeds; Princess is a purple pincher/Caribbean crab. They are interesting creatures, and like the chickens, there is so much more out there to learn about them! My friend's bred in captivity (a rare thing) and we have babies to raise soon- I get some too, which will make 5 breeds for me! Yay! Ok, I'll stop, this is the chicken forum after all!  
But, there really is so much more to them than most people know. Such as that they'll use hamster wheels. We estimate Princess' age to be around 25-30. Her buddy, Mr S, is about the same size, and the third pictured (smallest of the 3) is MisserEndoh (ME), who is an Indonesian crab. They look kinda cartoonish.


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## robin416

OK, you really do need to start a topic about the hermit crabs. I'd read every bit of it. But that's the curiosity gene I seem to carry. 

I had no idea they could get that big or that they could live that long. 

In your topic we need to see pics of the babies.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> Doing tours of her and the birds would be the icing on the cake.


Hmmm, We did have more than the the usual Saturday traffic today. I wasn't paying attention though, I was busy discovering new methods of self-injury doing farm equipment repair.


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## robin416

Are you still messing around with that dozier?


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## Poultry Judge

I'm done for the moment. I had to nudge, push and pull it with the backhoe and log chain to get it into a section of the barn where my diesel mechanic friend and I can tear the motor apart.


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## robin416

Oh, that's not what I was expecting to learn. Fingers crossed that it's not a huge problem and easily fixed by a diesel mechanic.


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## Poultry Judge

The motor only has fifty hours since we rebuilt it last year, but I fear the head may have to come off again.


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## robin416

I'm not very familiar with the working of diesel engines but it's a surprise that you think it would need that much tear down after a rebuild.


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## Poultry Judge

We've ruled out a bunch of stuff already. It's going to be injector timing, valve train, or head gasket, something that air locks or hydro locks the engine. Everything is heavy on that machine, even the hood and belly pan.


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## danathome

More serama.


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## Poultry Judge

Great pics, thank you!


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## robin416

I love that Momma is letting you handle the peeps without her going all woodpecker on you.


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> I love that Momma is letting you handle the peeps without her going all woodpecker on you.


She's very used to my handling and makes no fuss whatsoever when I check her nest or chicks. The frizzle should have eggs hatching tonight and tomorrow so I'm hoping.


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## robin416

Ah, that's the other little girl in the pic? 

You've had quite a few hatching in the past couple of weeks.


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> Ah, that's the other little girl in the pic?
> 
> You've had quite a few hatching in the past couple of weeks.


Yes. This will be the last for a good while.


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## robin416

I've lost count how many times I've heard that. Although most of the time it involved an incubator.


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## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> Yes. This will be the last for a good while.


Oh Dan, now you sound like me! The problem is, the end of one season is the beginning of the next.


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## danathome

No new chicks yet and likely won't be. Maybe next time. It seems that whenever there's a big change in weather the serama eggs quit. "a good while" isn't going to be all that long. Maybe a duckling this weekend. Of five eggs, four quit and three more hens have gone broody.


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## Poultry Judge

Wow Dan, you've got a lot going!


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## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Wow Dan, you've got a lot going!


It keeps my mind and body active. At this time of year I give the hens 3-5 eggs to brood; not a lot at all. For me it is enjoyable to have babies to care for. Certainly healthier for me than just looking out the window or spending the time on the computer or watching TV.


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## robin416

Plus chicks are just the sweetest things.


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## Overmountain1

Dan, me too. I may be younger than you, but my chickens have done a lot this year for keeping me moving! I lost over 20 lbs, and I can’t complain bc I needed to. I don’t have any cover so we let them out to free range but only supervised. Otherwise that hawk(s?) would pick them all off in a weeks time! 
Awful- we have so many around right now, and the black headed buzzards; is everyone aware the black buzzards will snatch them up too? We have an issue with too many in our town, they stalk the duck pond. The ducks only got to keep one chick out of several flocks that bred there- the rest all got snatched by the buzzards. They’re evil...

They will definitely keep a person active...


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## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Dan, me too. I may be younger than you, but my chickens have done a lot this year for keeping me moving! I lost over 20 lbs, and I can't complain bc I needed to. I don't have any cover so we let them out to free range but only supervised. Otherwise that hawk(s?) would pick them all off in a weeks time!
> Awful- we have so many around right now, and the black headed buzzards; is everyone aware the black buzzards will snatch them up too? We have an issue with too many in our town, they stalk the duck pond. The ducks only got to keep one chick out of several flocks that bred there- the rest all got snatched by the buzzards. They're evil...
> 
> They will definitely keep a person active...


We have the same. Hawks and buzzards-The hawks are so bold it does no good to be with the birds during free range. Thankfully we have just small hawks that only take the very small. I have never had a vulture problem. The flock does not even sound an alarm when they fly over.

Frizzy hatched one chick after all; one tiny yellow chick of three eggs.


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## Overmountain1

Awww! Can’t wait to see the little one! It still fascinates me how perfect and tiny they are when they come out! I saw the pic of the quail tho- I can’t wait! I’m definitely going to raise some of those in the future.


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## Poultry Judge

About a dozen years ago I had a pair of Turkey Vultures raise a family in my back pasture. They never bothered my birds, nor did the Barred Owls but the hawks sure did.


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## Overmountain1

Yep, the red headed ones are just fine, I don’t know the name of the black headed type, aside from knowing they are protected. They should spread out into the rest of the protected state now! We have enough.


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## robin416

Actually I've only ever heard them called black headed. There was a huge problem with them over closer to Chattanooga with the vultures killing new calves and injuring adult cattle by going after their eyes. 

That's one of those I don't care how protected they are, if they're going after livestock they need to be removed.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Around here they are mostly clean up. Up close, they are large, with the body mass of a goose or slightly larger.


----------



## Overmountain1

Robin- bingo! Exactly one and the same. They’ve been having the same issues just outside of town with the calves- oh it’s just awful!!! They’re horrid birds, don’t care what anyone else says.... altho who would? Ugh.

My hubbs took a couple pics to show me, and they’re so thick it’s just unreal- covering two towers, plus a tree they’ve killed off to live on. Oh, yes, they kill trees too. Forgot that habit too.


----------



## robin416

I heard about the issues over near Chattanooga but never heard what they were doing about it. 

We have a good number of the red headed, I haven't seen any black headed here. So far.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Wow, that is terrible!


----------



## Overmountain1

Here's a good article explaining what's going on w the black headed vultures...

https://www.farmanddairy.com/news/black-vulture-kills-increasing-in-ohio/9360.html


----------



## robin416

How much loss do livestock farmers have to encounter before someone steps up and says it's no longer acceptable? 

That means that they are going to migrate south again and become a threat to livestock further south for the Winter.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Thanks for the article. Wow, I've only seen Turkey Vultures around my farm but Salem is only thirty miles away!


----------



## Overmountain1

I was pretty sure it was up in your neck of the woods, but I didn’t know I spoke so literally in that! I’m glad I mentioned those meanies then... Hopefully they’ll clear out of here for the cold months, but idk, we live in a bit of a weird hole here in the mtns.... there are pockets of birds that should migrate further that stay all winter and usually do ok. Usually- tho sometimes our winters get harsh too. Anyway- beware! (Unfortunately)


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Awww! Can't wait to see the little one! It still fascinates me how perfect and tiny they are when they come out! I saw the pic of the quail tho- I can't wait! I'm definitely going to raise some of those in the future.


Mom is 9 ounces and chick is 12 grams.















Picture taken just minutes ago.

Quail are fun, but they run more on instinct making them more something to look at and less of a pet.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Yes, thank you!


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> Mom is 9 ounces and chick is 12 grams.
> View attachment 35956
> View attachment 35958
> 
> Picture taken just minutes ago.
> 
> Quail are fun, but they run more on instinct making them more something to look at and less of a pet.


Thanks for the pictures Dan!


----------



## Poultry Judge

Poultry Judge said:


> Thanks for the pictures Dan!


Yes, exactly! Every time I hatched Quail, it seemed like they would grow and fly the coop in about a minute! They are all about the wild.


----------



## danathome

My pictures leave a lot to be desired. I'm hoping my Kimmi will take pictures; hers turn out much better.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Your pictures are fine, you see how truly awful mine are!


----------



## Overmountain1

The pictures are great! I think they're just cute as a.... well, a button! We have space behind my house that is actually pretty well suited- a pasture that is only cut 1-2x a year and hasn't had anything for more than a few years now, and connects to a sort of green belt all up the Valley. 
We had random quail running the neighborhood last spring. Kinda funny, felt bad bc I think they'd gotten run off and then lost for a bit! Almost full grown, still following mom.

So, that's ok, I could live with raising them to aham, ^release^ into the wild.


----------



## robin416

I hate to say this but quail are actually kind of fun. They aren't quite the box of rocks PJ thinks they are. They see me with their breakfast in my hand which sends several of them into a frenzy. One little girl would see the lettuce, let out a scream and jump as high as she could to get at it. 

The Pharaoh don't go broody but lay like the dickens. I've been told Bobwhite are vicious. Same with the TX whites. 

So if some somehow some migrate into a pen on your land they're not a terrible addition.


----------



## Overmountain1

Yay! Thanks robin! I’m thinking button quail tbh! That’s so funny about the screamer of yours too! We have our rooster trained to jump for crackers now- even waits til when we say jump (usually!) 
They’re all funny to watch though. I watched one of the baby partridges trying to sort out how to get to the upper roost bar... he landed on top of the other one Bc, you know, he said he’d catch him! Hahaha they both tumbled down in a mass of wings and feet. 

Anybody want or need a cockerel?! I have a super duper sweet bantam partridge Cochin up for grabs! Yeah- They’re both roosters. So we only ended up with 2/7 pullets. My luck with this sucks!! Lol


----------



## robin416

And there's the proof that they can learn. More need to see posts like yours OM. Then they would understand just how much they can understand and learn. 

LOL I see that with my Guineas. Everyone is up on the roost with one scoping things out from the ground. But the place the ground bird wants is taken so the resolution is to land on the bird that has its spot. You've seen the end result.


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> The pictures are great! I think they're just cute as a.... well, a button! We have space behind my house that is actually pretty well suited- a pasture that is only cut 1-2x a year and hasn't had anything for more than a few years now, and connects to a sort of green belt all up the Valley.
> We had random quail running the neighborhood last spring. Kinda funny, felt bad bc I think they'd gotten run off and then lost for a bit! Almost full grown, still following mom.
> 
> So, that's ok, I could live with raising them to aham, ^release^ into the wild.


I may have given the wrong impression. Quail ARE fun and interesting to have and to raise; just don't expect them to be like chickens. They do have more of a wild nature and learning is limited. They will come running at feeding time and will get tame to the point of eating out of your hand. They just don't have a lot of personality.
If you plan to release, you should get Bob Whites. Cortunix are migratory and the studies I have read says they will not just go south, but end up in the ocean and drown. Buttons are very tiny and do not last long without human intervention. Cortunix and Buttons will brood in captivity, but conditions are hard to replicate so most people use incubators. I had pictures of a Japanese Cortunix brooding and raising chicks in a pen. The pictures were lost when my computer crashed. She was one of the chicks my serama hen hatched in the picture I posted. That may be why she brooded in that she was raised more in a normal fashion. Others in BYC have had similar experiences with Cortunix brooding and raising chicks.
Before I retired my class raised Buttons every year in a pen under a lab table. They raised many chicks and the students were fascinated.

So if you get quail, do some research. There are many species of quail to choose from. For outside I recommend the Japanese. For indoors the Buttons are loads of fun and I'm sure Tristan will be delighted when those first bee-sized chicks hatch. But for release get Bobs as they are native to our area.

Should you go for Buttons get the normals or silvers as some of the other color mutations no longer gave a broody instinct; like leghorn chickens.

Any questions you may have, I am certain I can answer most or all.


----------



## Overmountain1

danathome said:


> I may have given the wrong impression. Quail ARE fun and interesting to have and to raise; just don't expect them to be like chickens. They do have more of a wild nature and learning is limited. They will come running at feeding time and will get tame to the point of eating out of your hand. They just don't have a lot of personality.
> If you plan to release, you should get Bob Whites. Cortunix are migratory and the studies I have read says they will not just go south, but end up in the ocean and drown. Buttons are very tiny and do not last long without human intervention. Cortunix and Buttons will brood in captivity, but conditions are hard to replicate so most people use incubators. I had pictures of a Japanese Cortunix brooding and raising chicks in a pen. The pictures were lost when my computer crashed. She was one of the chicks my serama hen hatched in the picture I posted. That may be why she brooded in that she was raised more in a normal fashion. Others in BYC have had similar experiences with Cortunix brooding and raising chicks.
> Before I retired my class raised Buttons every year in a pen under a lab table. They raised many chicks and the students were fascinated.
> 
> So if you get quail, do some research. There are many species of quail to choose from. For outside I recommend the Japanese. For indoors the Buttons are loads of fun and I'm sure Tristan will be delighted when those first bee-sized chicks hatch. But for release get Bobs as they are native to our area.
> 
> Should you go for Buttons get the normals or silvers as some of the other color mutations no longer gave a broody instinct; like leghorn chickens.
> 
> Any questions you may have, I am certain I can answer most or all.


Thank you!!! I truly appreciate it- and having not done the research I really should have before taking chickens on, I learned a valuable lesson. Don't do that, dummy! Lol I will definitely look into it- the buttons would be, yes, mostly for Tristan, and we'd probably keep them long term, but being so tiny there's always a chance of one or two escaping. I suppose that's really all I meant! We would probably keep them inside and outside both, seems like we'd be happiest and safest as such. We will see. Definitely not anytime soon though! I have enough with my 20+ Hermit crabs to love too!  And 3 more in the waiting room- IE my friend Kelly has them bc in NY they get the exotics more often. So, her being in NY right now means they're staying w her for a time yet. It's been 6 months or so already.... tangent! Quail! Back to quail. Yes. Definitely later. But the information is invaluable to me, as is your knowledge! Thank you!!


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> I hate to say this but quail are actually kind of fun. They aren't quite the box of rocks PJ thinks they are. They see me with their breakfast in my hand which sends several of them into a frenzy. One little girl would see the lettuce, let out a scream and jump as high as she could to get at it.
> 
> The Pharaoh don't go broody but lay like the dickens. I've been told Bobwhite are vicious. Same with the TX whites.
> 
> So if some somehow some migrate into a pen on your land they're not a terrible addition.


They certainly aren't dumb. They are evolutionarily hardwired for much more of a wild existence. Like the Guineas, they have all of this ancient evolutionary behavior which we have to figure out.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Overmountain1 said:


> Thank you!!! I truly appreciate it- and having not done the research I really should have before taking chickens on, I learned a valuable lesson. Don't do that, dummy! Lol I will definitely look into it- the buttons would be, yes, mostly for Tristan, and we'd probably keep them long term, but being so tiny there's always a chance of one or two escaping. I suppose that's really all I meant! We would probably keep them inside and outside both, seems like we'd be happiest and safest as such. We will see. Definitely not anytime soon though! I have enough with my 20+ Hermit crabs to love too!  And 3 more in the waiting room- IE my friend Kelly has them bc in NY they get the exotics more often. So, her being in NY right now means they're staying w her for a time yet. It's been 6 months or so already.... tangent! Quail! Back to quail. Yes. Definitely later. But the information is invaluable to me, as is your knowledge! Thank you!!


Sounds like you have a pretty good space for them.


----------



## robin416

Dan is right, they retain a lot of their wild genetics. I guess I didn't notice because I've raised Guineas for so long.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Ver


robin416 said:


> Dan is right, they retain a lot of their wild genetics. I guess I didn't notice because I've raised Guineas for so long.


Very much so. We get conditioned to their behavior and quirks. Someone was asking me the other day why the Peafowl land on top of each other and try to take each others perches.


----------



## robin416

Don't bother explaining it to them, they'd probably never understand.


----------



## danathome

Yes. Definitely later. But the information is invaluable to me, as is your knowledge! Thank you!!
*You are welcome; and anytime I can be of help, just ask.

PJ-question on peachicks. In my reading about peafowl it said that strutting could not be used as a way of sexing peachicks. Kimmi bought mine at five weeks of age. When we saw one of the chicks display we marked it with marker. Whenever I saw a chick display it was always the same one. The chicks are not chicks any longer and the strutting chick is a male. Only once have I seen a female display and that was done when she was afraid/fearful; just a couple days ago. In your opinion, can displaying be used to accurately sex India Blues? Or are mine the exception?*


----------



## robin416

I'm interrupting here. I'm sure most if not all of us have seen a male display but have never seen a female do it. If you ever get a chance to catch it happening take a pic?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> I'm interrupting here. I'm sure most if not all of us have seen a male display but have never seen a female do it. If you ever get a chance to catch it happening take a pic?


Will do, if I get the chance. I have only seen it once in the time I've had the peafowl. The strut was identical to the male's but done for an entirely different reason; aggression-to look more powerful in response to a turkey getting too close.

Female turkeys are the same. They will strut when aggressive, but their strut looks far different to a Tom's.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> Yes. Definitely later. But the information is invaluable to me, as is your knowledge! Thank you!!
> *You are welcome; and anytime I can be of help, just ask.
> 
> PJ-question on peachicks. In my reading about peafowl it said that strutting could not be used as a way of sexing peachicks. Kimmi bought mine at five weeks of age. When we saw one of the chicks display we marked it with marker. Whenever I saw a chick display it was always the same one. The chicks are not chicks any longer and the strutting chick is a male. Only once have I seen a female display and that was done when she was afraid/fearful; just a couple days ago. In your opinion, can displaying be used to accurately sex India Blues? Or are mine the exception?*


Just my experience, but I agree with you on India Blues. Others take longer, I have a white one I'm not sure about. I have also heard that for the females it's more linked to being territorial. For males it's just hardwired, (like the turkeys). I have also heard, and I don't know if it's based on science, that the male feather fan display isn't what the females are looking at specifically. The females are looking at the male's legs and the pattern of their walk/strut. Which might mean that the function of the feather fan display is to take up space and control territory.


----------



## danathome

Thank you. For peafowl and turkeys, I've read the same thing; that chicks strutting does not mean male as females also strut. From my limited experience with these two species it would seem to be true and false. If the observer looks to the why the fowl is strutting, then sex can be determined. But strutting, solely by itself, doesn't indicate sex. *Have I put you to sleep yet?* "...based on science..." I wonder. Do they read the bird's mind?


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> Thank you. For peafowl and turkeys, I've read the same thing; that chicks strutting does not mean male as females also strut. From my limited experience with these two species it would seem to be true and false. If the observer looks to the why the fowl is strutting, then sex can be determined. But strutting, solely by itself, doesn't indicate sex. *Have I put you to sleep yet?* "...based on science..." I wonder. Do they read the bird's mind?


The mind reading part is difficult. I think the only one who has mastered it is Robin with her Guineas.


----------



## robin416

Nope, nope and nope. Guineas still challenge me when they get a wild hair. That behavior doesn't go unpunished.


----------



## danathome

My baby from WV.










A wonderful serama but too long legged. Before I put him with the hens I need to know if long legs is a dominant trait. To that end I have paired my serama rooster (short legs) with a white phoenix hen (long legs). I'm hoping this pairing will show me the genetics of all the main traits.


----------



## robin416

He's a pretty little thing. As you can see by my avatar white birds were my weakness.


----------



## danathome

He's even prettier than the pictures show; bright, snow white.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> My baby from WV.
> 
> View attachment 36030
> 
> 
> A wonderful serama but too long legged. Before I put him with the hens I need to know if long legs is a dominant trait. To that end I have paired my serama rooster (short legs) with a white phoenix hen (long legs). I'm hoping this pairing will show me the genetics of all the main traits.


Yes, and that's how the old timers did it, most everything, would show up within two generations, two to account for most alleled genes which would skip.


----------



## danathome

The phoenix hen is brooding eight eggs. Today I candle to see if they are fertile; the roo is a lot smaller than the phoenix hen.

Infertile-apparently too big a size difference as I know both are fertile.


----------



## danathome




----------



## robin416

Who is this little boy? How does he fall into your breeding program?


----------



## danathome

Pablo. He is one of my main breeders. Being frizzle split to silkied, his offspring are the full range of feather types depending on the hens. I have five started chicks that will be going to a new home today; one is smooth, one is silkied, and three are frizzles. The lady that's buying them is coming from Nashville this afternoon; a long drive.

Pablo is now set up with the silkied hen with the frizzle neck curl in the hopes of getting sizzle.


----------



## robin416

I can picture in my mind the route she's going to take. Even though it's mostly high speed it's still a long trek. This is the beginning for you getting your birds out there and becoming known. 

Since I know little about the Silkied genetics, is it safe to put him with her? I know you're not supposed to breed frizzle to frizzle but that's the extent of my knowledge on them.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> I can picture in my mind the route she's going to take. Even though it's mostly high speed it's still a long trek. This is the beginning for you getting your birds out there and becoming known.
> 
> Since I know little about the Silkied genetics, is it safe to put him with her? I know you're not supposed to breed frizzle to frizzle but that's the extent of my knowledge on them.


Frizzle to frizzle can cause defects in feathers and internally. With this pairing I am taking a chance in that the hen has some frizzle. Only by trying will I know.

With frizzle to frizzle there's a 25% chance of frazzle and its defects. Most frazzles DIS. Many such pairings never produce a living frazzle chick, so with my pair the likely-hood of defects is low.

In order to get silkied chicks both parents have to have the silkied gene as it's recessive.


----------



## robin416

Does that mean you're unfamiliar with his full genetics? That he might also have frizzle in there too?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Does that mean you're unfamiliar with his full genetics? That he might also have frizzle in there too?


No. Pablo is frizzle with a hidden silkied gene; he does not have the genetics for smooth.


----------



## robin416

The only frizzles I've seen in person had feathers with more curl. That's why I didn't recognize him as a frizzle.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> The only frizzles I've seen in person had feathers with more curl. That's why I didn't recognize him as a frizzle.


That's understandable. Frizzle can be slightly curled to very tight curls.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Interesting feathering regardless.


----------



## danathome

I have one pullet that the only frizzle is on its neck, like the silkied bird, and the rest of the body has feathers that stick out straight.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> I have one pullet that the only frizzle is on its neck, like the silkied bird, and the rest of the body has feathers that stick out straight.


Yes, so that is a direct indicator of the genetic traits, saves you some labor, in deciding on your breeding program strategy.


----------



## danathome

My Nashville buyer bought all the serama chicks I had and six of those Phoenix chicks. She seemed like a nice person. We're now working on a trade. Kimmi has been wanting a couple mini goats and the buyer, Kimmie, has three pregnant does. Two kids for turkeys, call ducks and serama. How many to be decided later.

A trade for Spring! Will it ever get here?-HA!


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> My Nashville buyer bought all the serama chicks I had and six of those Phoenix chicks. She seemed like a nice person. We're now working on a trade. Kimmi has been wanting a couple mini goats and the buyer, Kimmie, has three pregnant does. Two kids for turkeys, call ducks and serama. How many to be decided later.
> 
> A trade for Spring! Will it ever get here?-HA!


Hey Dan, at least it won't be 2020! Maybe 2021 will be better.


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Hey Dan, at least it won't be 2020! Maybe 2021 will be better.


*The whole world is hoping 2021 is better!*


----------



## robin416

Not an exaggeration. I'm over it now.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Over what?


----------



## robin416

2020


----------



## Poultry Judge

Yes, but we still have miles to go before we rest with 2020!


----------



## robin416

I'm just going to hide right here until it's over.


----------



## Poultry Judge

That's the best plan!


----------



## danathome

What scares me is that 2020 just keeps going on into 2021.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Man, I hear you Dan, huge fear on my part!


----------



## robin416

danathome said:


> What scares me is that 2020 just keeps going on into 2021.


Yeah, that thought has been wandering around in my head too.


----------



## Overmountain1

Yup.... if this was 2020, why don't we know better by now? 

I'm afraid we are darned if we do and darned if we don't this election- and that will hold true no matter which side you see it from. IMHO, of course.


----------



## robin416

Overmountain1 said:


> Yup.... if this was 2020, why don't we know better by now?
> 
> I'm afraid we are darned if we do and darned if we don't this election- and that will hold true no matter which side you see it from. IMHO, of course.


Are you all settled in back at the house?


----------



## Overmountain1

Wellll- we ARE home! Lol we will finish unloading and unpacking tomorrow tho. The chickens have grown soooo much in a week! The poofs are even bigger poofs now! Lol


----------



## robin416

Two of the best things about being home, the critters and your own bed.


----------



## Overmountain1

robin416 said:


> Two of the best things about being home, the critters and your own bed.


Nailed it! But then I fall asleep on the couch...


----------



## robin416

Literal LOL!


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Two of the best things about being home, the critters and your own bed.


Two best things of being home? Spending time with my beautiful wife and then the critters.


----------



## Overmountain1

danathome said:


> Two best things of being home? Spending time with my beautiful wife and then the critters.


Well, since I don't have a Kimmi here to love, I'll just have to settle for the cat!


----------



## robin416

OM, does the rest of your family know the cat has precedence?


----------



## Overmountain1

Shhhh- don't tell the cat, but it's only at night.


----------



## danathome

I have been rereading material on serama genetics. As I mentioned in a post somewhere my serama hatch rate went from near 100% to 25% when I changed roosters; selling the older roo in favor of two younger ones. Reading about genetics is frustrating in that much of what I read I know to be incorrect. But I did find the answer-Serama were created by crossing Japanese bantams with other Malaysian breeds. Japanese bantams carry a short legged lethal gene which serama can have. Both of my young roosters have short legs as do most of my hens. The lethal gene causes eggs to DIS and chicks to die soon after hatching.









Snowflake and his brother have normal legs so can not carry the lethal gene so once mature my hatch rate will improve dramatically; hopefully back to near 100%. The lethal gene is recessive so must come from both parents to affect their offspring.

Lethal genes in genetics is something I knew and forgot; hell to get old. I used to raise Japanese bantams.


----------



## robin416

You knew it, just didn't associate it with the Seramas. Now knowing how they were developed you understand why you're having such a poor hatch rate.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Yes, but it depends what type of breeding folks wish to do. The Japanese breeders are very very picky about the purity of their lines and consequently, the hatch and survivability are low.


----------



## Poultry Judge

It's not considered detrimental to the aesthetic.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> You knew it, just didn't associate it with the Seramas. Now knowing how they were developed you understand why you're having such a poor hatch rate.


I did know it. I seem to have problems with some long term memories from the period of time when I was at my worst; health-wise. The memories are there but I can't seem to recollect them when I need them. Reading helps-as soon as I saw the words, "lethal gene", I didn't need to read further.


----------



## robin416

I'm guessing that I'm older than you but just so you know, I deal with the same thing. Now that I've moved away from the bird raising I have to really think about the things I know I know. Sometimes I find it, other times I have to take to the internet.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> I'm guessing that I'm older than you but just so you know, I deal with the same thing. Now that I've moved away from the bird raising I have to really think about the things I know I know. Sometimes I find it, other times I have to take to the internet.


66. For me it was a long illness involving two strokes. Depending when, memories are gone, partial, or hidden away. I've been getting my bonsai ready for winter; bringing in those that are tropical. One is a Fukien Tea-a gift from my wife before we were married so I've had the tree many years. Yet, I have no memories of its care, so I also used the internet to look it up. Even after reading, I can not remember it other than it has always been one of my favorites.


----------



## robin416

OK, I need to holler at another Bonsai addict. Her plants are amazing. I haven't talked to her in a while so I don't know what's going on in her life right now. She would be a good sounding board for you. 

I've got you by a couple of years so that means you could also be dealing with the brain fade so many of us deal with. Yours maybe amplified due to the strokes.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> OK, I need to holler at another Bonsai addict. Her plants are amazing. I haven't talked to her in a while so I don't know what's going on in her life right now. She would be a good sounding board for you.
> 
> I've got you by a couple of years so that means you could also be dealing with the brain fade so many of us deal with. Yours maybe amplified due to the strokes.


I used to have numerous bonsai, but the move to Tennessee, and for other reasons, many died. Those that are left are the hardiest specimens.

Brain fade... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo


----------



## robin416

Stinks, doesn't it?

I did send her a note last night. We'll have to be patient until she shows up. If we don't hear from her I'll send her an email. You should see what she has. If it's not 100 plants I'd be surprised. And she works for a Bonsai retailer in her free time. Which I've yet to figure out how she has any free time.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Stinks, doesn't it?
> 
> I did send her a note last night. We'll have to be patient until she shows up. If we don't hear from her I'll send her an email. You should see what she has. If it's not 100 plants I'd be surprised. And she works for a Bonsai retailer in her free time. Which I've yet to figure out how she has any free time.


Stink it does. I will be most interested in seeing pictures should she have any.

A phoenix pullet hatched two chicks yesterday. When I put her and the chicks down on the floor the hen fled in fear-of the chicks. Sadie, the black hen in the picture, hatched a single chick two weeks ago. The chick died, the latest victim to the lethal gene, five days ago. When she was shown the two orphans motherhood kicked in and she accepted the chicks with no problem. A bit odd, most hens would not accept another's chicks after that amount of passing time and treat them as newly hatched chicks that they are. Just another way that serama are different from other chicken breeds.


----------



## robin416

Having a hen raising the peeps is so much more preferable to having to keep them in a brooder.

Did the Phoenix ever show back up looking for her peeps? Was this her first time hatching?

I had Silkies that would do the same thing. Even if they didn't have chicks or hadn't been broody in a while. That saved me a bunch of grief when I hatched a single.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Having a hen raising the peeps is so much more preferable to having to keep them in a brooder.
> Easier with the hen-yes, but the brooder is more of a sure thing.
> 
> Did the Phoenix ever show back up looking for her peeps? No. I gave her two chances several hours apart. When the chicks were in the nest everything was fine, but out of the nest the hen fled from the chicks. Was this her first time hatching?Yes.
> 
> I had Silkies that would do the same thing. Even if they didn't have chicks or hadn't been broody in a while. That saved me a bunch of grief when I hatched a single.


Always good to have reliable foster hens; just in case.


----------



## Poultry Judge

A good foster hen is absolutely invaluable!


----------



## danathome

I candled my latest serama broody. Of five eggs 2 had already DIS before day 6. In desperation I have set up my WV cockerel, who will be 4 months old tomorrow, with three hens. Just maybe...

Snowflake as he is today.


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## robin416

I like his looks more than so many other show birds I've seen. I hate the tail touching the head look.


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## Poultry Judge

Good eye Robin! The tail is supposed to be on a vertical axis, like Snowflake.


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## robin416

It's the esthetic I like. Doesn't mean that it's the right one. The girl in my avatar looks like her tail is close to her head but it wasn't.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Yes, the overall aesthetic for game fowl is Station. But yours is a fuzzy Raptor I think!


----------



## robin416

Yeah, no. I couldn't show her. She would come unglued just sitting her on the seat of my truck. Never mind putting her in a carrier. She wasn't having any of it.

She'd never be eligible for the raptor club.


----------



## danathome

Snowflake is no show bird. The tail is curved when it should be near vertical, his wings hang at the wrong angle, his chest is not full and round, his overall carriage would need to be more vertical, and the list goes on. But for my purposes, he is perfect. I honestly don't care for the extremes show birds need for the show table.


----------



## danathome

Poor Pablo is having eye issues and the color is off; washed out. Pablo is closer to show than Snowflake.


----------



## robin416

You can see he doesn't feel good.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> Snowflake is no show bird. The tail is curved when it should be near vertical, his wings hang at the wrong angle, his chest is not full and round, his overall carriage would need to be more vertical, and the list goes on. But for my purposes, he is perfect. I honestly don't care for the extremes show birds need for the show table.


You go Dan! Since they had success with the virtual Ohio National Show this year, I keep thinking about doing a show next year, with pictures but more for fun, just for everyone to show off their birds.


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> You can see he doesn't feel good.


No, he definitely doesn't feel well.


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> You go Dan! Since they had success with the virtual Ohio National Show this year, I keep thinking about doing a show next year, with pictures but more for fun, just for everyone to show off their birds.


Pablo is much better; back to crowing his head off. Pablo has been a house pet since he was two weeks old; he is outside with the hens on a very limited basis when the weather is good. He has had eye and sinus issues his whole life (he's just over a year old now) and the problem worsens quickly outside-allergies? We have tried numerous meds with very limited results. I've brought one small hen in to keep him company as I do not plan on anymore outside visitations.

A show on the group would be fun!


----------



## Poultry Judge

Glad to hear Pablo is feeling better!


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Glad to hear Pablo is feeling better!


I'm glad too. Pablo is the only bird I have that is an actual "pet".

A disappointment today. My tiniest serama hen (8 ounces) laid six eggs and went broody. Candling, last night, showed that three eggs have DIS; not a good sign for the remaining three. While I knew this would likely happen, I had hoped anyway. Her eggs are so tiny that when they do hatch, the chicks will likely be under 10 grams at hatch; something I hope to achieve soon. I guess all I can do this time is to cross my fingers, toes, and eyes for luck and hope the three hatch successfully. The hen's next efforts are likely to hatch, but I hate waiting. Should her chicks be as tiny as I think they will, I plan to keep them as breeders providing the have the necessary traits.


----------



## Poultry Judge

We wish you good luck!


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> We wish you good luck!


Thank you. Luck is what is needed. I sold the rooster and I've put another short legged cockerel of my line with the majority of serama hens. If a person reads about the lethal factor it will state that 25% of eggs will be affected and DIS. In actual practice the lethal factor works differently with different birds. With the rooster I just sold, 75 to 80% of the eggs DIS. I'm hoping the young cockerel will produce better; a loss of 25% is acceptable. As for the roo sold, the buyer was told to pair him only with long/normal legged hens.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Those numbers can become very acceptable. People don't understand the loss due to genetics.


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Those numbers can become very acceptable. People don't understand the loss due to genetics.


I am hopeful. Last weekend I noticed that the two young cockerels were mating with the hens frequently. While the roo with the genetic lethal factor was still with the hen too, I collected six fresh eggs to set under my old Yokohama hen. Today's candling showed five eggs alive and developing and only one DIS. So, I am hopeful that some chicks will hatch.

The lethal factor is a pain. Serama eggs are not the easiest to work with, even in the best of situations.

PJ- At what age do peacocks start sounding off? So far the trio has been very quiet. Kimmi was all excited about hearing the booming call of the peacock a week ago. Yesterday, when we were working on the greenhouse, she heard it again; not the peacock at all, just Cher sounding off with her loud, heh-heh-heh-heh. Kimmi agrees with me-Cher does not sound at all like a quack-quack.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Peafowl that are raised together are going to behave similarly, unless or until they see other Peafowl behavior. About 6-8 months is average, their noise is also based on their pecking order. Quiet means peaceful most of the time. There are exceptions though, Baby 1, at two months old could be heard a thousand feet away! The noisiest single bird I have ever had. Now he's pretty quiet but can occasionally let loose. He is also displaying a lot more. The noisiest group of birds I have ever had is hands down the Guineas!


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Peafowl that are raised together are going to behave similarly, unless or until they see other Peafowl behavior. About 6-8 months is average, their noise is also based on their pecking order. Quiet means peaceful most of the time. There are exceptions though, Baby 1, at two months old could be heard a thousand feet away! The noisiest single bird I have ever had. Now he's pretty quiet but can occasionally let loose. He is also displaying a lot more. The noisiest group of birds I have ever had is hands down the Guineas!


Sooooo.... he could start sounding off at any time. He-I really need to name them. It is surprising that Kimmi hasn't done so. She names everything!


----------



## Poultry Judge

Peafowl behavior is most analogous to Turkey behavior. If I live to be a hundred, I'll never totally understand those silly birds!


----------



## Poultry Judge

Sometimes I feel like Jane Goodall or something, attempting to observe/understand the crazy stuff Turkeys do!


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Peafowl behavior is most analogous to Turkey behavior. If I live to be a hundred, I'll never totally understand those silly birds!


Oh bother. More of the same but different-Is that about right?


----------



## Poultry Judge

About right. In the end, Peafowl are a little more laid back than Turkeys.


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> About right. In the end, Peafowl are a little more laid back than Turkeys.


And a little more intelligent in their actions. Certainly more beautiful; even when young.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> And a little more intelligent in their actions. Certainly more beautiful; even when young.


This one always cracks me up!!!


----------



## robin416

Yeah, it does.


----------



## danathome

Thanks. At least one chuckle today.


----------



## danathome

This is Fraz, an accident that happened because I forgot what I knew.

Fraz is the sole survivor of five eggs produced by a sibling pairing of two frizzles with short legs. It's rather a miracle that he is alive.

With a frizzle/frizzle pairing there is a 25% lethal factor.
With a short legged/short legged pairing there is a 25% lethal factor.
With a sibling pairing defective genetics are magnified.

In a f/f pairing about 25% of the eggs DIS; after hatch more die because of organ-tissue failure. Those chicks with two genes for frizzle are called frazzles. They have brittle feathers with bald spots upon maturity. There may be all kinds of defects and the birds are likely to be short-lived. Fraz's only grandmother was also a frazzle who had the feather problem and was blind in one eye. Her body was blocky and she had an over-sized head.

The short legged lethal factor works in a similar way causing 25% to DIS or die within ten days of hatch.

Fraz came about when I forgot all the above material and put Pablo and Frizzy (brother and sister) in the same pen at the wrong time.

















Fraz will grow into one ugly bird; if he continues to grow. He is now a month old; undersized with brittle feathering.

I'm hoping to find someone worthy that would like him as a pet.

The picture is larger than life. Fraz is about the size of a canary.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Thanks for sharing your knowledge Dan.


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Thanks for sharing your knowledge Dan.


More like sharing a horrid mistake.


----------



## robin416

Fascinating. How old did his grandmother get?

I'd take him in a NY minute if we were closer.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> More like sharing a horrid mistake.


No, it is what it is. I think you are educating folks a little about genetics.


----------



## robin416

What PJ said. 

There's a lot I know/knew but because I haven't used it I forget about it. Sometimes it takes someone saying something for me to remind what I know.


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> What PJ said.
> 
> There's a lot I know/knew but because I haven't used it I forget about it. Sometimes it takes someone saying something for me to remind what I know.


Or we assume people know stuff, I am certainly guilty of that!


----------



## robin416

True. Sometimes I have to step back and realize who I'm talking to before I open my mouth.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Fascinating. How old did his grandmother get?
> 
> I'd take him in a NY minute if we were closer.


And I would give him to you. There is just so much of me and I already have many who need special attention. Cyndi, the gramma, lived three years until a hawk got her summer before last. There's a long story that goes with Cyndi cyclops to be told another day. While Cyndi was misshapen and half blind, she was healthy and I'd probably still have her if not for the hawk.


----------



## robin416

That's impressive to have those physical challenges yet be able to carry on like the world was fine. I wish she had had a chance to live to see how far she got.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Yes, impressive, thanks for sharing!


----------



## danathome

Cyndi Cyclops, granny to Fraz: I may as well relate the story now as the weather makes me housebound. Cyndi was of generation two which makes Fraz of generation 4? This generation stuff is very confusing to relate when I have birds from some earlier generations and birds of latter generations, but sold off in between generations once they produced chicks better than themselves; and then there's generation 5 paired with generation 11.. OK, alrighty then... back to the story.

Cyndi was the product of the Frizzy in generation 1 and her son of generation 2 (what generation does that make Cyndi?) Never mind. At one time I could reason this stuff out; now it just gives me a headache. Both parents were frizzle. At that time I didn't know about lethal genes-I think. At any rate the pairing produced many fine chicks, most smooth feathered with only a couple frizzle birds and the one frazzle-Cyndi. (As I told PJ, the number percentages in genetic research are averages and really don't apply to each individual pairing. Going by the research, Cyndi's siblings should have been close to 50/50 smooth and frizzled of those that hatched with 25% DIS eggs. In that pairing the frazzle lethal gene percentage was very low. Their hatch rate was near 100% with Cyndi being the only frazzle chick to hatch. Cyndi's parents produced many chicks with numerous nestings.

Being a frazzle, I did not intend to ever let Cyndi hatch her own chicks. As it was, with one blind eye, she wasn't suitable as a broody hen (she was unable to see if the eggs on her blind side were tucked under correctly. At best, she could brood a single egg) and could not be sold or given away.

Four or so years ago a feral dog broke into my serama coop and killed the whole flock except for Cyndi Cyclops and two hens that were brooding eggs high up on the wall. The dog destroyed every frizzle and most of the smooth feathered birds. The dog pushed through the screen to get the serama and then could not get out. I did not feel one bit bad about shooting the animal.

Building the serama flock up again was time consuming as I had to wait for those two clutches to hatch and mature before I had a new rooster. Even at that, I thought I had no way to replace the frizzle that had been killed as it takes a frizzle to produce a frizzle; or so I thought.

In discussion on BYC, I posted about the frizzle. A member that knew I had frazzle Cyndi suggested that I try raising her chicks, that she had the genetics to produce beauty even though, she herself, was extremely ugly. And it worked! Cyndi threw !00% beautiful frizzle chicks; all completely healthy with two good eyes.

So, from Cyndi came Pablo and Frizzy (I recycle names when a bird is sold or dies) who I ignorantly paired together and produced little Fraz. Now, can someone figure out what generation Fraz would be?? GOOD LUCK!


----------



## Poultry Judge

Thanks Dan! You know the drill, you work forward as well as backward. Many of your genetic markers are temporarily hidden and will show up one by one in future generations. My memory is not as good as it used to be, that's why I do all my scribbling on yellow pads. When I get stuck, I make flow chart style lineage boxes.


----------



## robin416

Don't look at me to figure out the generation, I didn't have a stroke and have never been able to keep them straight in my head. Especially when line breeding was involved.

Yes, the same is true of Silkies. Some really ugly birds have the ability to produce some awesome chicks. I'm glad someone recognized that and encouraged you to hatch from her.


----------



## danathome

It was very unfortunate to lose so many serama to a dog in that it meant numerous generations of genetic markers being gone-forever.

To this day I keep my serama in two coops at a distance from one another and a pair in the house at all times. And THAT is not being paranoid.


----------



## danathome

*CORRECTION*

*
Four or so years ago a feral dog broke into my serama coop and killed the whole flock except for Cyndi Cyclops and two hens that were brooding eggs high up on the wall. The dog destroyed every frizzle and most of the smooth feathered birds. The dog pushed through the screen to get the serama and then could not get out. I did not feel one bit bad about shooting the animal.

Going down Memory Lane is a difficult jaunt.*
I had a third hen in the house with chicks; also smooth feathered.


----------



## robin416

No, it's not. There is nothing worse than that kind of devastation. It takes a lot to get over if anyone ever does. I had an attack in my original Guinea coop. To this day it bothers me and that was nearly 15 years ago.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> No, it's not. There is nothing worse than that kind of devastation. It takes a lot to get over if anyone ever does. I had an attack in my original Guinea coop. To this day it bothers me and that was nearly 15 years ago.


Sorry about your guineas of the past. It seems so senseless. The dog was not interested in eating; only in the sport of killing. I suppose that's why Cyndi survived. With one eye she probably didn't see to run and frazzles can not fly at all.

I do feel bad about not getting the guineas. Maybe at the Spring auction; and they will probably be cheaper. In the tirade 55 was thrown out as a fair price for a guinea pair. Just not for me at that amount. Sorry-stop bringing the mess up! (I'm always talking to myself)


----------



## robin416

OK, I'm done. Then you'll truly be talking to yourself.


----------



## danathome

SIGH. Thank you for being you and for being supportive at a time when support was truly needed.


----------



## robin416

It's what makes us us. What makes the forum more like family.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> It's what makes us us. What makes the forum more like family.


And THAT is why I joined. BYC is a great group that I have belonged to for years, but it has grown so big the feeling of "family" is gone.


----------



## robin416

I've been gone from there for many years. When a mod told someone to put vetrx in a bird's eyes I lost it. I jumped all over her and then left and never went back. I couldn't take it anymore with the misinformation that caused the birds to suffer.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> I've been gone from there for many years. When a mod told someone to put *vetrx in a bird's eyes I lost it.* I jumped all over her and then left and never went back. I couldn't take it anymore with the misinformation that caused the birds to suffer.


Wow! I am still a member on a limited basis. For me it is the loss of "family" feeling; it truly is. I used to spend many hours visiting/chatting/exchanging ideas with people around the world and, yes, got to know them almost as family. But then everyone became lost in the vast numbers. Suddenly everyone had their own thread and stuck with that thread. Each state having at least one thread and each country doing the same. In some ways that's good in bringing those of local areas together, but at the same time it stops the exchange of ideas across vaster areas. Where once I enjoyed sharing with people in Thailand and China and Ireland and and and... People are now cliquish and unwelcoming. I gave up on the serama threads as did all the people I knew for that reason. I tried to become part of the TN thread... Now I see BYC as strictly a question and answer forum and from what you just posted... Just too big, too compartmentalized, too sterile(for lack of a better word I can't think of).


----------



## robin416

I've never been big on chit chat. It was all about the birds for me. But it got lost in the volume there so when I left it was no big loss to me. There were some there that were from the original BYC I belonged to but they became different. That feeling of friendship vanished. 

I haven't missed it in the least.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> I've never been big on chit chat. It was all about the birds for me. But it got lost in the volume there so when I left it was no big loss to me. There were some there that were from the original BYC I belonged to but they became different. That feeling of friendship vanished.
> 
> I haven't missed it in the least.


Yes, I would agree. I am big on chit chat when it comes to birds or other animals. I have owned a vast array of species and breeds; from the tiniest of finch to blue and gold macaws, from button quail to all kinds of waterfowl to peafowl so there's a lot of chit chat in me-HA. 
I do miss the group as it was and the many people that I got to know along the way.
I often wonder what happened to this one or that one; especially since the advent of Corvid. People seem to have just disappeared.


----------



## robin416

It's difficult to keep track of each other when there's never been a physical meeting. I've reached out to some and they have my email address. A few have my phone number but I've "known" them for more than ten years. 

But with no one here but me it probably doesn't mean a bunch to be able to reach out. And you can't count on me answering my phone because I rarely take it out with me. 

What I have done here is reached out to some of the regulars that went poof. Some will answer, most haven't.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> It was very unfortunate to lose so many serama to a dog in that it meant numerous generations of genetic markers being gone-forever.
> 
> To this day I keep my serama in two coops at a distance from one another and a pair in the house at all times. And THAT is not being paranoid.


That is a good idea!


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> Sorry about your guineas of the past. It seems so senseless. The dog was not interested in eating; only in the sport of killing. I suppose that's why Cyndi survived. With one eye she probably didn't see to run and frazzles can not fly at all.
> 
> I do feel bad about not getting the guineas. Maybe at the Spring auction; and they will probably be cheaper. In the tirade 55 was thrown out as a fair price for a guinea pair. Just not for me at that amount. Sorry-stop bringing the mess up! (I'm always talking to myself)


There will be more Guineas. I would have said no to 55 also, unless they were really special somehow.


----------



## danathome

Today I found the first egg that would be of avatar Snowflake. The hen has always laid 5-6 eggs before becoming broody. Everything crossed for luck.


----------



## robin416

Woohoo, new babies coming in the future.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Woohoo, new babies coming in the future.


I hope so. Of the three hens brooding candling today showed: #1 all six egg DIS, #2 five eggs DIS and one still developing, #3 all five developing. Maybe I will get a few chicks next month. That is good; some people have been waiting a very long time for serama chicks.


----------



## robin416

I know that using an incubator was tough getting them to hatch, I'm surprised that even using hens you have that many DIS.


----------



## danathome

Lethal factor. Until that issue is resolved DIS will continue. The responsible rooster is gone, but it takes approximately 4 weeks before ALL the hens are laying eggs fertilized by the new cockerels and not from the rooster that was sold.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Yup.


----------



## danathome

I am lucky in that there is three hens, now, where the month long wait does not apply. They have recently been returned to the breeder coop after being broody and raising chicks/ducklings. When they start laying in the near future their eggs will have been fertilized solely by Snowflake; now to hope he is fertile.

Snowflake is an odd one. He started crowing at one week of age. And now, his roo saddle feathers have grown in, but the hackle feathers have not-hackle feathering still looks like a hen's.

This picture is recent.







The saddle feathers are there, but don't show up well.


----------



## robin416

I didn't realize the involvement of the rooster that you sold in this batch of eggs.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> I didn't realize the involvement of the rooster that you sold in this batch of eggs.


Once mated a hen's eggs are fertile for as long as she lays for up to 4 weeks; even if the rooster is gone with the first egg. For that reason I'll have to deal with the lethal factor for a month or until every hen has gone broody; what a pain. I now have three hens with Snowflake and the rest with a young short legged cockerel of my own line.
This young cockerel is likely to have the lethal factor too, but, hopefully, at a far less percentage. I hate to give up on my line breeding if there's a chance of success with the young cockerel. While I like Snowflake he is no where near the quality of YC. Using Snowflake is taking a big step backwards genetically as he has flaws that have been eliminated from my other serama.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Good point Dan, there are always pros and cons.


----------



## robin416

You might pull something hidden out of Snowflake with your girls.


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Good point Dan, there are always pros and cons.





robin416 said:


> You might pull something hidden out of Snowflake with your girls.


*GOOD MORNING EVERYONE!*

Pros and cons I'd just as soon to deal with; better to slowly incorporate Snow's genes into the flock.
The probability that Snow has hidden flaws is good. The flaws that are visible are bad enough. It would be nice to be able to just go out and buy a suitable rooster, but such a rooster would be most difficult to find and is sure to have a hefty price tag.

I have decided to hang on to Fraz; he may pull the flock out of the fire as his grandmother did.


----------



## robin416

I'm glad you're keeping Fraz. It's entirely possible he would not do well in another setting.

No, we're looking for good traits hidden in Snowball. It does happen.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Absolutely, there a ton of good and interesting genetic material there.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> I'm glad you're keeping Fraz. It's entirely possible he would not do well in another setting.
> 
> No, we're looking for good traits hidden in Snowball. It does happen.





Poultry Judge said:


> Absolutely, there a ton of good and interesting genetic material there.


Hidden good traits are possible, of course, but... Snow comes from a flock that is well taken care of, but with no eye to keep the flock of high quality. As a result many of the serama, while healthy, were not good specimens.

Fraz will be a companion for Pablo, here in the house. Already, he is quite tame. sitting on my lap while I have my morning coffee.


----------



## Poultry Judge

But oftentimes that's a good place to start because you have some diversity there and you then are looking for specifics.


----------



## danathome

Yes, but I'm way beyond start; it takes generations to get rid of bad traits and to improve those that are good.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Yes, I should have been clearer Dan. I meant in general when one brings a bird to an existing line. I think there are folks on the Forum who are interested in breeding and it is our job as best we can to break down the types of breeding, how it's done and what traits we are aiming for. I know I am guilty all the time, of not fully explaining myself, so I appreciate your level of detail. And thanks as always for sharing your knowledge!


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Yes, I should have been clearer Dan. I meant in general when one brings a bird to an existing line. I think there are folks on the Forum who are interested in breeding and it is our job as best we can to break down the types of breeding, how it's done and what traits we are aiming for. I know I am guilty all the time, of not fully explaining myself, so I appreciate your level of detail. And thanks as always for sharing your knowledge!


We all are! For me, it's all the time.

What I'd like to do with Snow, given the option, is to pair him with ONE hen, pick the best cockerel... Until there is no best cockerel, and use one with the whole flock. In that way undesirable traits are gone and new genes have been introduced to the whole flock; without producing numerous chicks of questionable quality to sell.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Yes, you give far better explanations than I!


----------



## danathome

It's funny how the mind works. I woke in the middle of the night with the realization that I had goofed in the paragraph, below, from my prior post explaining Cyndi Cyclops.

When two frizzles are paired together the outcome, genetically, is 75 % frizzle with an occasional frazzle survivor and 25% smooth feather. It was when Frizzy 1 was paired to a smooth feathered rooster that "...chicks, most smooth feathered with only a couple frizzle birds." In a frizzle/smooth pairing the results are predicted as 50% smooth and 50% frizzle which isn't the case with every frizzle/smooth pairing. *HAVE I PUT YOU TO SLEEP YET, PJ??*

*Cyndi was the product of the Frizzy in generation 1 and her son of generation 2 (what generation does that make Cyndi?) Never mind. At one time I could reason this stuff out; now it just gives me a headache. Both parents were frizzle. At that time I didn't know about lethal genes-I think. At any rate the pairing produced many fine chicks, most smooth feathered with only a couple frizzle birds and the one frazzle-Cyndi. (As I told PJ, the number percentages in genetic research are averages and really don't apply to each individual pairing. Going by the research, Cyndi's siblings should have been close to 50/50 smooth and frizzled of those that hatched with 25% DIS eggs. In that pairing the frazzle lethal gene percentage was very low. Their hatch rate was near 100% with Cyndi being the only frazzle chick to hatch. Cyndi's parents produced many chicks with numerous nestings.*


----------



## robin416

I am so confused. No way could my brain keep all that stuff straight anymore.


----------



## Poultry Judge

No,


robin416 said:


> I am so confused. No way could my brain keep all that stuff straight anymore.


No, it comes down to how Dan is utilizing certain breeding methods. That's why I work from my yellow pad and hatching records, I can't remember or keep stuff straight anymore either.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> (As I told PJ, the number percentages in genetic research are averages and really don't apply to each individual pairing. Going by the research, Cyndi's siblings should have been close to 50/50 smooth and frizzled of those that hatched with 25% DIS eggs. In that pairing the frazzle lethal gene percentage was very low. Their hatch rate was near 100% with Cyndi being the only frazzle chick to hatch. Cyndi's parents produced many chicks with numerous nestings.


Thanks for explaining some of your methodology Dan! The hatch rate depends on multiple factors including the current pairing. So, when I'm talking about my Derby hatch rate of around 25 percent, I am talking overall since they are inline bred and most, (really all birds are related within a few generations). The other question I would have for you, is how do you track your Serama generations? In a linear fashion? Or do you have a master tree sketch?, or both?


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Thanks for explaining some of your methodology Dan! The hatch rate depends on multiple factors including the current pairing. So, when I'm talking about my Derby hatch rate of around 25 percent, I am talking overall since they are inline bred and most, (really all birds are related within a few generations). The other question I would have for you, is how do you track your Serama generations? In a linear fashion? Or do you have a master tree sketch?, or both?


A bit of both, but more heavily on who is paired with who is paired with who (master tree). But when prior generations are paired with the present generation and everything in between, a sketch is soon so convoluted that to try to use it solely as a way to record keep-very confusing. How people with large flocks manage is beyond me; my small flock is hard enough to keep straight. To make matters worse, much was simply stored away as memory; which is now full of holes as are the records I've tied to keep on the computer-especially as it applies to the last couple years.
I have no records for the last two generations at all. To my mind, they just appeared. No memories and no formal records.


----------



## Poultry Judge

You are right, it gets complicated fast! I try to keep a master tree going for each breed, and there are some holes.


----------



## danathome

As far as record keeping goes I will have to start from scratch for the newest generations. For the others I need to complete records while I can recall the info. Thank goodness there's only 15 or so birds.


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## Poultry Judge

I hear you Dan!


----------



## danathome

*Strange occurrence. *Last night I received an e-mail from a girl/woman asking if I had a dozen PIGEON eggs to sell. With two e-mails she explained they had incubators and want some pigeons for their yard. Obviously, she had no clue what was involved with raising squabs so I spent some time giving her the basics. I'm wondering where she got my name and e-mail. Few people know I have pigeons. I have asked but, so far, there has been no further mail from her. Odd, I always research each new breed/specie before buying. Odd too, in that I thought everyone was familiar with pigeons.


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## Poultry Judge

Maybe I'm paranoid from my old job but I don't trust a lot of unsolicited emails until/unless I know who someone is. really "pigeons for their yard?" I still think phone calls are best.


----------



## danathome

Such an odd thing. The exact words were, "I just want too have some for my little farm."
I am also paranoid in lieu of what has been happening lately. I hadn't advertised pigeons and I do not give out my e address; especially in ads. As I've said before, we've had dogs stolen and killed-birds have disappeared too and it seemed this stuff happened after an ad came out with our address. I've stopped putting any kind of personal information (phone number, address, and e address) on ads because of my paranoia.
The girl did reply that she e-mailed because she saw a post of mine on BYC. She did not say, but it is to be hoped that she has given up on the idea of incubating pigeon eggs. I rather hope she doesn't get pigeons at all; at least not until doing some research and learning about pigeons.


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## robin416

That thing about "awe their cute" is rampant and not at all unusual she approached you about backyard pigeons. 

If she contacts you again get her username. A lot of times archived stuff hangs out there and one is persistent enough they can dig up information.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> That thing about "awe their cute" is rampant


Yes and it's terrifying!


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## robin416

Point, I've been taking care of the neighbor's birds while they're gone a few days. They're old enough to be laying for months now. She still has a heat lamp on them. I told her today to turn it off. Will she? Who knows.

She loves her birds, does listen when she asks but she is pretty clueless. She also got a crash course on how not to take care of birds when I had a fit at the way another person was keeping her birds.


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## Poultry Judge

Tell her to join the Chicken Forum!


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## robin416

I hadn't thought of that. I know she has internet. I don't know how much time she spends on it though since I can see when they're online. Or I could before I got the Mac.


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## Poultry Judge

What kind of birds?


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## robin416

One looks like a white rock, two look like EE's, I'm not sure what the fourth one is but I'd steal her if I could.


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## danathome

Kimmi was taking pictures this morning so I asked her to take one of the fuchien tea bonsai. I've had the tree 14 years and it was pretty good size when Kimmi bought it for me. It gas been neglected, needing a trim and repotting/new soil.


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## danathome

Sassy and Sadie; mother and daughter.








Sadie almost lost her life this morning by getting under my feet when I was stepping down from a step. Thankfully, I had my hand on a railing when Sadie squealed in terror.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Thanks for the pics Dan!


----------



## robin416

Love the Bonsai, Dan. GCC needs to see it. 

I cringed when you mentioned the almost catastrophe with the puppy. They are so good at getting our heart rates up.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Beautiful Bonsai!


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## danathome

The bonsai is far from beautiful due to neglect, but thanks anyway.

While feeding yesterday I checked the broody hens as I usually do and found this tiny yellow chick under my Yokohama hen. The chick is a serama; the first to hatch in over a month-yeah. But four others were DIS. It will be interesting to see if this yellow chick grows white feathers; should that happen the chick would have to be Snowflake's first baby. My serama have never produced white-in all the generations there has never been a white offspring. In a week the tail and flight feathers will have grown enough to tell the color. My flock has produced beige where the chicks are yellowish, but not as yellow as this one.

The hen in the picture did not hatch the chick. When her eggs DIS I brought her in to the house to share quarters with Pablo in order to break her broodiness. When I came in the door, on the way to our inside brooder, the chick peeped and the hen gave an answering cluck. Out of curiosity, I took the chick near the hen's tub; when the chick peeped again the hen clucked even louder. When I held out the chick on my palm it peeped and ran when he hen clucked.. The chick went under the hen and that was that. The brooder was turned off as it won't be needed. The little family are doing well today.









This is the same hen that raised the four first ducklings for the first week. The picture shows that her beak and toe nails are in bad need of clipping (which we did right after taking the picture). This is a common problem with broody hens that are not out scratching and pecking in the dirt. Her last manicure was right after caring for the ducklings-4 weeks ago.


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## robin416

How very sweet is that. I love when foster moms and peeps can come together.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Love the pics!


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## danathome

Serama hens are faster at accepting foster chicks, ducklings too, than other breeds. With most breeds, chicks have to be given at night, in the dark, in order to ensure they're accepted by the hen. Many of my serama will accept chicks during the daylight hours.


----------



## robin416

Some of my Silkies were perfectly fine taking on fosters. Some of the others? Let's just say it was best to keep peeps away from them if they weren't theirs.


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## Poultry Judge

Yup!


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## danathome

In a much earlier post I wrote that hatch day is about the most difficult day in a bird's life. The 3rd and 4rth day are a major milestone too. The absorbed yolk provides all the moisture and nutrients the chick needs for the first three days of life; the reason why hatcheries ship chicks as quickly after hatching as possible. If the hatchery waited just 24 hours many chicks would arrive dead. At 48 hours they would all be dead depending how long it took for them to be delivered.

This is the pictured chick's fourth day and it is doubtful he will live to be 5 days old. There has been very little growth and whenever he tries to drink he ends up choking, gasping, and on the floor unable to move for a while. It's pretty obvious that the respiratory system is malformed. It is likely the digestive system is also malformed. This chick should be culled.

I always keep a eye on new chicks for the 3rd-4th days. While internally malformed chicks are not common, it does happen; I figure chicks, after day 4, are likely to grow and become healthy birds.


----------



## robin416

Something to think about, Baby is now several months old. I didn't give up on him when he had the seizure. Or when he mouth breathed with any physical exertion. He was able to outgrow the issues that had him so challenged.


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## danathome

I'm not one to just give up. It will be culled from any breeding program if it survives, but would make a good pet or even as a foster mom if female.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Cute chick, hope it survives!


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## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Cute chick, hope it survives!


Still alive. If its alive tomorrow it has a good chance as that would mean the digestive system is working; now if it can learn to drink without choking itself...

Three more hens have gone broody today. Two are rather interesting; a cross of silkie and phoenix. Both have the crest, muffs, beard, and feathered feet of the silkie (Domant traits) and smooth feathers and a tail of the phoenix. Both paired back to phoenix. I'm hoping the dominant traits come through to the offspring, but I know that even dominant traits weaken with each outpairing causing those traits to be smaller. The third hen is phoenix so I gave her ten extra serama eggs that needed a mom. Guess I'm starting spring early.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> Guess I'm starting spring early.
> 
> Yes you are!


----------



## danathome

The chick survived the night and now seems able to drink with out problem.


----------



## Poultry Judge

That is very good news!


----------



## robin416

It's just sometimes something begins to work. Let's see what peeps goes on to become as a big bird.


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> That is very good news!





robin416 said:


> It's just sometimes something begins to work. Let's see what peeps goes on to become as a big bird.


I was just looking at it. One minute it appeared as a normal chick and a second later the chick collapsed, shivering-seizure. I held it for a while until it started acting normally again. What next?


----------



## robin416

Well, shoot. My little guy grew out of his issues. Now I don't remember how long it took him because it was so gradual.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Hopefully, it will outgrow, does it have electrolytes with its water?


----------



## Poultry Judge

I had a similar issue with a couple wild turkey chicks in the Spring. Two did not make it.


----------



## robin416

A couple is understood to be two, so the two you mentioned died?


----------



## danathome

Apparently I was wrong in thinking there was a respiratory issue. Twice I saw the chick collapse and gasp after drinking so I thought... Only a coincidence that the seizure hit while it was drinking. Today's episode was well away from water. The good news is that the seizures? are less in strength. The first time I was sure the chick was a goner. Today, shorter in duration and not as all encompassing; at its worst the chick could stand and totter around where before the seizure laid the chick out flat and lasted a good 1/2 hour. I will be sure to add electrolytes to their water. Thank you.


----------



## robin416

Is this one of those with the bad gene?


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> A couple is understood to be two, so the two you mentioned died?


Yes


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Is this one of those with the bad gene?


Since the feathers are coming in white, it may or may not have the lethal gene (I'm guessing that's what you mean by "bad gene"). The father would be Snowflake from WV who is long legged. At any rate, the lethal gene would not have anything to do with the seizures.

I took PJ's advice and put electrolytes in the water. Kimmi also reminded me that the lack of calcium in birds can cause seizures so I've added calcium to their feed.


----------



## robin416

Yeah, it's what I meant. 

Since I'm a soft touch I'm pulling for the little one to pull through.


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## danathome

I am also, plus I'd like to know if the electrolytes and added calcium stops the seizures. It would be valuable information for the future. There's been no seizures today; so far that I've seen.


----------



## robin416

I only saw one seizure with mine but like you I wasn't in front of him 24/7. And he was outside with the flock.


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## danathome

Even indoors where I am more likely to see it's likely I won't ... The seizure I saw yesterday was less than 5 minutes and back to normal.


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## robin416

Well, if positive thinking has any power peep should recover because I'm positive thinking like mad.


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## Poultry Judge

We wish you continued good luck!


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## danathome

Alive and growing. No sign of seizures for the last couple days.

Candled some of the eggs and stopped; every egg candled was either infertile or DIS.


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## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> Alive and growing. No sign of seizures for the last couple days.
> 
> Candled some of the eggs and stopped; every egg candled was either infertile or DIS.


Thanks Dan, Continued good luck with your little guy!


----------



## robin416

Excellent news to read on a Saturday. 

Whose eggs were these? It's hard to keep track of who's doing what since you've got so many laying.


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> Excellent news to read on a Saturday.
> 
> Whose eggs were these? It's hard to keep track of who's doing what since you've got so many laying.


Serama. Two more have gone broody and candling showed 100% developing. 100% only amounts to 10 eggs. These will be from the young cockerels so I'm hoping DIS will be a situation of the past.

Fraz the frazzle. At least he has no bald spots.


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## robin416

LOL Ten eggs is plenty since none of them realize it's Winter and can take some time off. 

Are Fraz's dark markings brown? You don't see brown very often.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> LOL Ten eggs is plenty since none of them realize it's Winter and can take some time off.
> 
> Are Fraz's dark markings brown? You don't see brown very often.


The markings are different shades of brown. I have had many serama that were brown.


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## robin416

I'm really trying to think of when I've ever seen a white and brown bird. I know there are some that are mottled but to be marked more like a paint Silkie I don't remember seeing it before.


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## Poultry Judge

Good luck Dan! Keep us posted.


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## danathome

Serama can be just about any color that chickens are found with. That's just one reason I like serama; each bird can be a different color and feather type which makes for a flock of individuals rather than a flock where all the birds look the same.


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## danathome

A month ago I had a phoenix hen with a serama rooster. After the hen went broody all of her eggs candled clear-infertile? That little chick that had the seizures; an obvious phoenix/serama cross as it has traits of both breeds. Apparently the hen did not lay ALL her eggs in one nest. It will be fun to see how this chick develops.

Pure white with the tail, posture, and wings of a phoenix and the tiny short legs and size of the serana


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## robin416

You do know if there is no pic they don't exist. Right? 

The rest of us would like to see how it's developed to this point. And tell Kimmi thank you in advance from me for taking the pic.


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> You do know if there is no pic they don't exist. Right?
> 
> The rest of us would like to see how it's developed to this point. And tell Kimmi thank you in advance from me for taking the pic.


Will do. If I can find a good picture of a serama chick I'll post it too so there's something to compare with when Kimmi is up and about.


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## danathome

This is Sei (S LONG I)...










and these are serama. Approximately the same age.










Not the best pictures to use for comparison. Serama chicks have a more upright tail, drooping wings and shorter back.


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## robin416

OMG, he's so sweet looking. I'm so glad it was able to overcome its challenges. 

I can see the tail set is different and he appears to have a longer back. I'm looking forward to see how it matures. 

Did you tell Kimmi thank you?


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## Overmountain1

He really is absolutely adorable! If you don't keep him Dan, he must be mine!


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## Poultry Judge

Thanks Dan!


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## danathome

"robin416, post: 191560, member: 6488"]OMG, he's so sweet looking. I'm so glad it was able to overcome its challenges. *He seems to be a perfectly normal chick.*

I can see the tail set is different and he appears to have a longer back. I'm looking forward to see how it matures.

Did you tell Kimmi thank you? *Yes. She just laughed at me and my poor attempts at photography.*


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## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> He really is absolutely adorable! If you don't keep him Dan, he must be mine!


*Should I decide to not keep him, he is yours.*


----------



## Overmountain1

Yay! I just love his coloring so far and his overall look- he must be a big bundle of genetic info to play with now- whether you or I- or both! He is cute.  Thanks!!


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## robin416

danathome said:


> "robin416, post: 191560, member: 6488"]OMG, he's so sweet looking. I'm so glad it was able to overcome its challenges. *He seems to be a perfectly normal chick.*
> 
> I can see the tail set is different and he appears to have a longer back. I'm looking forward to see how it matures.
> 
> Did you tell Kimmi thank you? *Yes. She just laughed at me and my poor attempts at photography.*


And the fact we're aware of it? And her superiority in taking the pics?


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## danathome

Overmountain1-You can have Sei. While it's too soon to be positive, I think Sei is a cockerel. I do not want him as he isn't suitable for breeding as he had seizures. Below is a picture of a young phoenix cockerel. Sei will look quite similar, but with shorter legs, tail held higher, and drooping wings.


----------



## danathome




----------



## robin416

Whoa, he or she looks more like a Serama sitting there on its own.


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> Whoa, he or she looks more like a Serama sitting there on its own.


Other than the long back it does in the picture. Pictures can be deceiving and this one definitely is. He rarely lifts his tail or let his wings droop so much. This goes to show why it is a poor idea to buy breeding stock based on just photographs.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Yup, well said Dan.


----------



## Overmountain1

Awwww poor baby! I had discounted him being the one with the seizures, I guess separated a day or two's readings. Dang Sei a super cute but I'm still a bit overrun w boys for now. Shamefully, I do not have a separate spot to put the bachelors except for periods of time during the dayX which will (at least) give the rest a better break too.

Tell you what! If, when this big official coop finally does get built (I told hubbs it would be spring a week ago and he disagreed. We will see...) I would love to add that little guy to the flock too. I am going to be bringing in some more puller/hens for my exuberant roosters. 
Well, but then there's the question of how 4 of them might take to him too. Let's call this one a work in progress. He's a tough and adorable guy, and he's gonna be pretty in his own way, I just know it. So it's a consideration. 
[mention]danathome [/mention] I would like to also discuss a potential swap of porcelain D'Uccle this coming summer too. I think I'll have a pulley or two to spare by then, and thought maybe you might, too. I can't recall for sure, do you have both cock and hen in those too, isn't that right? 
I would love to come down and see you and Kimmi for a longer visit this time too.


----------



## danathome

"Overmountain1, post: 191766, member: 14430"]Awwww poor baby! I had discounted him being the one with the seizures, I guess separated a day or two's readings. Dang Sei a super cute but I'm still a bit overrun w boys for now. Shamefully, I do not have a separate spot to put the bachelors except for periods of time during the dayX which will (at least) give the rest a better break too.*I am not at all sure of Sei's sex. It is quite possible that Sei is Serena. Being a cross, I am not sure as to when I'll know for sure; most likely around a month to six weeks in age.*

Tell you what! If, when this big official coop finally does get built (I told hubbs it would be spring a week ago and he disagreed. We will see...[eoji6]) I would love to add that little guy to the flock too. I am going to be bringing in some more puller/hens for my exuberant roosters.
Well, but then there's the question of how 4 of them might take to him too.*When adding a rooster it is easier to do so while the newby is still immature. Most roosters will not see an immature cockerel as a threat.* Let's call this one a work in progress. He's a tough and adorable guy, and he's gnonna be pretty in his own way, I just know it. So it's a consideration.
[mention]danathome [/mention] I would like to also discuss a potential swap of porcelain D'Uccle this coming summer too. I think I'll have a pulley or two to spare by then, and thought maybe you might, too. I can't recall for sure, do you have both cock and hen in those too, isn't that right?*Unfortunately I lost my porcelain cockerel to a predator so future chicks I have would be a cross in colors; hardly matters as my porcelain pullet had a golden neck d'Uccle father.*
I would love to come down and see you and Kimmi for a longer visit this time too.  *You are always welcome. Our area is being hit hard by Covid 19 right now so it would be best to wait until this pandemic is more under control.*


----------



## Overmountain1

Absolutely: I know it'll def be sometime after this months and likely the next too- hopefully not too long tho! I couldn't agree more, Sei looks like a heck of a guy!  
As for the D'Uccle, totally fine! Or we could do a Charlie offspring there, and then crossed back w my Jackie later for more Mille Fleur! I love their personalities even more than their looks/colors etc, so someone not being genetically breed perfect isn't much issue w me on them. They're so sweet I think it's hard to go wrong!


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Absolutely: I know it'll def be sometime after this months and likely the next too- hopefully not too long tho! I couldn't agree more, Sei looks like a heck of a guy!
> As for the D'Uccle, totally fine! Or we could do a Charlie offspring there, and then crossed back w my Jackie later for more Mille Fleur! I love their personalities even more than their looks/colors etc, so someone not being genetically breed perfect isn't much issue w me on them. They're so sweet I think it's hard to go wrong!


*Sounds like a plan. I'll still try to find a porcelain or golden neck d'Uccle rooster as I have a pullet of each color, but I doubt I have any luck. I've seen Millie fluer d'Uccle at the auctions, but that's not much help.*


----------



## Overmountain1

Hey, you never know, one or the other night land right in your lap! OR if we get a little porcelain roo from our first or second brood (whenever that happens, spring probably, given their ages) we'd be happy to share one of those little guys with you too! So there's an option for the next season, too.  Dan, you know me by now, I just go with the flow- you know, unless my ire is raised! (Hahaha- but not by you, my friend, no worries.) I'm sure we will figure out what we need when we need it and go from there but there's some exciting options anyway for both of us!


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Hey, you never know, one or the other night land right in your lap! *Tis true. One never knows what the future may bring.*OR if we get a little porcelain roo from our first or second brood (whenever that happens, spring probably, given their ages) we'd be happy to share one of those little guys with you too!*We'll cross fingers and toes you have better luck than me.*So there's an option for the next season, too.  Dan, you know me by now, I just go with the flow- you know, unless my ire is raised! (Hahaha- but not by you, my friend, no worries.) I'm sure we will figure out what we need when we need it and go from there but there's some exciting options anyway for both of us!


*Now, to survive the winter and Corid 19.

Chicks hatching today; 3/4ths phoenix and 1/4th silkie. Be fun to see which traits come through to this second generation. The moms look like silkies, but with normal feathering. Dad is pure phoenix. The sisters started laying at the same time and one sister hatches today (one so far) and the other sister hatches next week.*


----------



## robin416

Well, keep Kimmi nearby because I sure want to see them.


----------



## danathome

Kimmi is with her Mom until tomorrow night; preparing Christmas. You may have to suffer with my ill attempts with the camera that says it's 2016. Someday I'll ask her to fix it for me when I don't have to ask her to do what I can't now.


----------



## danathome

Anyone familiar with how craigslist works? My ads are constantly being flagged for removal. From what I have found out, anyone can flag a post for removal and an automated system removes the ad.


----------



## robin416

LOL I'll be fine. Pics, even bad ones, of chicks are just the best of life.


----------



## robin416

danathome said:


> Anyone familiar with how craigslist works? My ads are constantly being flagged for removal. From what I have found out, anyone can flag a post for removal and an automated system removes the ad.


I'll bet that's that idiot that was giving you grief last month. There is a CL forum where you can ask about it.


----------



## Poultry Judge

2016 may be better than 2020!


----------



## robin416

I was going to agree when I realized what was going on in 2016. Maybe go back a couple more years when Bob's and my life wasn't the next doc appointment.


----------



## Poultry Judge

We shall see what 2021 brings.


----------



## danathome

I posted of my frustration with craigslist yesterday. Here's an update. If I type in "Dachshund" or "doxy" my ad is flagged and removed. If I use the words "tiny puppies" the ad is not removed. There is another ad listings dachshunds for sale. Care to guess what I firmly believe is going on?


----------



## robin416

If it's not the idiot doing it then yes, what's going on.


----------



## danathome

Idiot's ad is gone now too. I have no idea; someone's idea of a joke? May the fleas of a thousand camels invade their arm pits.


----------



## robin416

So, it was him. You might have to make a new account. Not sure how that works with CL. I know you probably won't be able to use the same email address though.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> So, it was him. You might have to make a new account. Not sure how that works with CL. I know you probably won't be able to use the same email address though.


We tried different accounts and it made no difference. It was ads, and only ads, that had dachshunds for sale. Other ads from my account were not tampered with.


----------



## robin416

That is just weird. I wonder if it was a CL gremlin. That's totally possible after some of the stuff I read on their forum the other day.


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> That is just weird. I wonder if it was a CL gremlin. That's totally possible after some of the stuff I read on their forum the other day.


That is strange.


----------



## danathome

Merry Christmas! I believe it to be someone who, for whatever reason, is flagging/deleting ads for dachshunds. Eliminating the competition. From my research CL is set up so inappropriate flagged items are deleted by an automated system. Dachshunds are now inappropriate.


----------



## robin416

Hey guy, a merry one to you too. 

What about doxens? Think people will know what that means? Although that might make it hard for anyone searching for the other two. It wouldn't show up in a search.


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> Hey guy, a merry one to you too.
> 
> What about doxens? Think people will know what that means? Although that might make it hard for anyone searching for the other two. It wouldn't show up in a search.


Or maybe divide the word up, that still doesn't help with the search.


----------



## danathome

We tried Doxy and the ad was deleted, but we can try other ways.

Overmountain-Sei is a cockerel. His comb has started to develop and he crows; not unusual for serama chicks to crow at a very early age!


----------



## robin416

It's going to remain a mystery I guess.


----------



## danathome

It's obviously someone eliminating the competition; just don't understand how they are doing it. I'm going to place the ad again, now, and put a space between each letter of dachshund.


----------



## robin416

CL only searches titles, doesn't it? It would be so much better if it would do the body of the message too. Then it could be puppies with the breed mentioned in the body.


----------



## robin416

You know what? This might be a CL problem. I've flagged things in the past but it's still there long after I flagged it until someone woke up and removed it. 

Have you looked to see if your ad is still in your current listings?


----------



## danathome

Kimmi just suggested that.


----------



## danathome

Heading or in text body deleted as was a post to the moderators about the situation.


----------



## robin416

It's weird how fast they disappear when you think about it. There is probably an algorithm that is running amok.


----------



## danathome

Weird it is and I give up. If need be we will ad in the papers. Did you have a good day yesterday? Ours was pleasant enough.


----------



## robin416

I was bored because I couldn't work outside. That's how much I hate having to be in the house. 

How did dinner go for you two yesterday?


----------



## danathome

I hate being shut in too, but at least today was much warmer. The meal was good. With all the aches and pains we came home early. That was my excuse-I wanted to be sure the birds had food and water before night fall. With that cold everything was frozen and slim pickings free ranging.


----------



## robin416

I was invited to dinner by one of my neighbors but with this virus I'm just not going to risk it. 

Weather was good enough for me to be outside today. Much better than yesterday with the high winds. 

Oh, I thought of a good use for our mask. To keep our noses warm when the weather is nasty and we have to be out there.


----------



## danathome

Yes, the mask does help with the cold-also steams up my glasses. Turkey sale tonight so I best find my mask. With luck the mean grays will be mostly gone.


----------



## robin416

That's where I'm lucky, I don't have to wear my glasses with the stuff I do. 

Turkey sale? I take it you haven't learned that they can be a challenge? Sort of like my Guineas. Never mind. I understand, I have Guineas.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> That's where I'm lucky, I don't have to wear my glasses with the stuff I do.
> 
> Turkey sale? I take it you haven't learned that they can be a challenge? Sort of like my Guineas. Never mind. I understand, I have Guineas.


Yes, I learned they were a challenge long ago. I've also learned that the different varieties pose different challenges. The grays are much more aggressive than the mini whites and royal palms. That challenge I do not need at this time. When royal palm cross with mini white 50% of the chicks are the blasted grays. Why? Turkey varieties are not breeds and do not breed true to form when crossed with other varieties.


----------



## robin416

So you're selling the grays? I thought you were looking to buy.


----------



## Overmountain1

danathome said:


> Yes, I learned they were a challenge long ago. I've also learned that the different varieties pose different challenges. The grays are much more aggressive than the mini whites and royal palms. That challenge I do not need at this time. When royal palm cross with mini white 50% of the chicks are the blasted grays. Why? Turkey varieties are not breeds and do not breed true to form when crossed with other varieties.


I sense a bit of frustration here, Dan!  Hang in there- you could always put them out to pasture so to speak!  (I jest.)


----------



## danathome

Nine turkeys is now six. Three have gone to a new home and I now have a more manageable flock.


----------



## danathome

danathome said:


> Yes, I learned they were a challenge long ago. I've also learned that the different varieties pose different challenges. The grays are much more aggressive than the mini whites and royal palms. That challenge I do not need at this time. When royal palm cross with mini white 50% of the chicks are the blasted grays. Why? Turkey varieties are not breeds and do not breed true to form when crossed with other varieties.


When turkey varieties are crossed the original varieties used in their creation appear in the offspring.


----------



## robin416

danathome said:


> When turkey varieties are crossed the original varieties used in their creation appear in the offspring.


Oh, that's actually interesting.

Now let's see what happens with the little Phoenix/Silkie peep.


----------



## robin416

danathome said:


> Nine turkeys is now six. Three have gone to a new home and I now have a more manageable flock.


How many were you hoping to sell?

What you have now, what's the male/female ratio?


----------



## danathome

I was hoping to sell three. Two toms and four hens. In the four years of owning turkeys, I have never seen a tom try to force mating; it has always been at the hen's invitation.


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## robin416

Well, then it worked out for you as far as the number you wanted to reduce to.


----------



## danathome

Yes, it did.

Only problem-the backyard seems so empty and bleak without them.

There was a nest of serama eggs due to hatch, but something went wrong with the hen and she deserted the nest. She appears very lame. I have her in the house under observation. The eggs have been placed under another hen, but it's doubtful they will hatch. Time will tell.

Did everyone have a merry Christmas??


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## robin416

Eggs can become quite chilled and still hatch. Just a little later. I know you know that but just had to remind you.

Is it possible that all the sitting is causing her issues?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Eggs can become quite chilled and still hatch. Just a little later. I know you know that but just had to remind you.
> 
> Is it possible that all the sitting is causing her issues?


No. This was a first time/her first nest. On examination we saw that her nails had grown almost grotesquely long. My best guess is she caught her feet in something and hurt herself getting free. Her nails have been trimmed, she is eating well, and I'm sure she will be fine. As of now the eggs are still alive; we'll see-supposed to hatch in 2 days.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Things are quiet in Ohio Dan, quiet Christmas, I'm looking forward to it being 40 tomorrow.


----------



## danathome

Is quiet good? It's 50 here already; a veritable heat wave! Question PJ-are your toms good with the hens in the sense that they don't force themselves on the hens or are mine odd. They certainly are not like roosters who chase the hens all the time to mate.


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## danathome

Kimmi was watching the turkeys this morning and took pictures.


----------



## danathome

danathome said:


> No. This was a first time/her first nest. On examination we saw that her nails had grown almost grotesquely long. My best guess is she caught her feet in something and hurt herself getting free. Her nails have been trimmed, she is eating well, and I'm sure she will be fine. As of now the eggs are still alive; we'll see-supposed to hatch in 2 days.


I moved the eggs in a rush yesterday and put them under a hen that had just started brooding. The rush was because Snickers had followed me into the coop leaving the drop down curtain out of place. Two serama got out and immediately flew when a bigger rooster charged in aggression. Took quite a while to find them, but thankfully both are very tame so I could just reach down and pick them up. This morning I moved the eggs to a more appropriate hen (new broodys often will not accept chicks and kill them). I was surprised and pleased to see that one egg had pipped. Fingers and toes crossed. There's only four eggs, but maybe... If they hatch they will be the first of the next generation.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> Is quiet good? It's 50 here already; a veritable heat wave! Question PJ-are your toms good with the hens in the sense that they don't force themselves on the hens or are mine odd. They certainly are not like roosters who chase the hens all the time to mate.


The juveniles run amuck and can get into quite a bit of trouble, the adult toms spend their time and energy displaying.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> Kimmi was watching the turkeys this morning and took pictures.
> View attachment 37280


Yup.


----------



## robin416

danathome said:


> I moved the eggs in a rush yesterday and put them under a hen that had just started brooding. The rush was because Snickers had followed me into the coop leaving the drop down curtain out of place. Two serama got out and immediately flew when a bigger rooster charged in aggression. Took quite a while to find them, but thankfully both are very tame so I could just reach down and pick them up. This morning I moved the eggs to a more appropriate hen (new broodys often will not accept chicks and kill them). I was surprised and pleased to see that one egg had pipped. Fingers and toes crossed. There's only four eggs, but maybe... If they hatch they will be the first of the next generation.


We were just talking about bird drama in another post. Looks like your gang knows how to fire things up too.


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> We were just talking about bird drama in another post. Looks like your gang knows how to fire things up too.


Beware the Turkey Raptors!


----------



## danathome

Serama hatch tonight and tomorrow-I hope. Snow's first babies. I candled on day 5 and all six had a growing embryo. I've kept to a hands off policy since then. Pretty please...


----------



## robin416

I think you're addicted to hatching. I've known folks who have said no more then next thing they're talking about the new peeps that hatched.


----------



## danathome

As far as addictions go it's not such a bad one.


----------



## robin416

And then there's the whole chicken addiction where one more just has to happen.


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> And then there's the whole chicken addiction where one more just has to happen.


Chasing that dragon! (chicken)


----------



## danathome

All six serama eggs have hatched!! This shows it was a creeper/short leg lethal gene was responsible for so many eggs going DIS. A great beginning to the new year!! HAPPY NEW YEAR'S EVERYONE.


----------



## robin416

And it just got better with such a successful hatch. Contrats Grandpa.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> View attachment 37338
> View attachment 37336
> All six serama eggs have hatched!! This shows it was a creeper/short leg lethal gene was responsible for so many eggs going DIS. A great beginning to the new year!! HAPPY NEW YEAR'S EVERYONE.


That's great!


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> That's great!


Yes, I think it is great. I was very worried that something else was wrong other than the creeper gene.


----------



## danathome

This week's hatch was not good; 2 tiny chicks from 6 eggs. My young short leg roo being the father (also carries the creeper gene). 4 eggs were DIS. So, going by a single hatch from each cockerel-Snow was 100% and YC is 30%.

YC is an almost ideal serama roo. I'm hoping some of Snow's chicks will be long leg pullets so they can be used with YC.


----------



## robin416

I really am losing track. I thought you didn't have any of the short leg birds left.


----------



## danathome

I had kept one young cockerel (YC) to see if he would have the creeper gene and because he is of great quality. All my hens are short legged. Snow has overly long legs. From this hatch it would seem that YC has the creeper gene in that 4 eggs DIS. But I plan to keep him as the quality is there; just need to come up with some long leg hens, so I hope that some of Snow's 6 will be long legged/normal legged.

The second chick is 14 g.

I saw the cochin rooster (Big Blue) in the nest boxes calling to the hens. A good sign in that it usually means eggs soon. An hour ago I looked, and sure enough, I have my first cochin egg. As soon as there's 3 I'll check fertility by putting the eggs in my little incubator.


----------



## robin416

Some of what you're doing is starting to stick with me. Is it only the female that carries the gene? Or do they both have to carry it for it to show up?

Testing, testing, testing. If the eggs are fertile I'm hoping they turn out to be acceptable to you. I guess if not, then you'll be on the hunt for a nice male.

I saw an ad for someone selling Cochins this morning. Should I say I was tempted?


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> This week's hatch was not good; 2 tiny chicks from 6 eggs. My young short leg roo being the father (also carries the creeper gene). 4 eggs were DIS. So, going by a single hatch from each cockerel-Snow was 100% and YC is 30%.
> 
> YC is an almost ideal serama roo. I'm hoping some of Snow's chicks will be long leg pullets so they can be used with YC.[/QUOTE
> 
> Thanks Dan.


----------



## danathome

robin416, post: 193786, member: 6488"]Some of what you're doing is starting to stick with me. Is it only the female that carries the gene? Or do they both have to carry it for it to show up? *The creeper gene acts like a recessive, so yes, both parents must carry the creeper for it to show up.*

Testing, testing, testing. If the eggs are fertile I'm hoping they turn out to be acceptable to you. I guess if not, then you'll be on the hunt for a nice male.*Either way I hope to find a better roo. The hens are nice enough to warrant a better rooster. In the mean time there's people who want cochin as broody hens and for that looks are not so important.*

I saw an ad for someone selling Cochins this morning. Should I say I was tempted? *I got rid of most of my birds following hospitalization thinking I could not... and felt worse with each day. Now my flock grows bigger and I feel so much better. Some days are hard; more than some. It's worth it. So much better to occupy the mind with birds and plans than to sit and feel down and down and down. I hope you do get a few cochin. With some imagination it's not that hard to care for them.*


----------



## robin416

It makes sense now that you might be able to breed back the longer legged birds to him. But, how certain are you the females don't carry the gene already? Isn't it possible to possess it and not display it with the shorter legs?

I won't do it. Just like I won't have another dog. I really do have plenty that I enjoy doing as far as the property is concerned. And I don't have to be concerned about what happens to them if something happens to me.


----------



## danathome

Supposedly all short legged chickens have the dominant creeper gene which acts like a recessive gene when two short legged birds are paired together-Confused?

The creeper gene is dominant in that any bird with one creeper gene is short legged.
Acts like a recessive in that if both parents pass the creeper gene on to offspring-it's a lethal combination-chicks with two creeper genes DIS.

I just researched this again and going by this 75% of Snow's offspring will have short legs and 25% will have long legs. These percentages are supposed to be the same when two short legged birds are paired together-75% short and 25% DIS. 

However, I know these percentages do not hold true for individual birds, so it's a matter of wait and see.


----------



## danathome

Creeper is a dominant and is never hidden.


----------



## danathome

Frizzle genes work in the same way as the creeper gene. Frizzle is dominant and never hidden and produces a frizzle bird. But when a chick gets two frizzle genes they act like a recessive and produce frazzle and all the problems that go with it.

Fraz is not doing well. As a frazzle his feathering is thin leaving bare spots. Today I noticed his face having a very yellow cast; sign of liver problems. Should his health continue with a downward spiral I will have to euthanize him.


----------



## robin416

Yes. But I struggled with the whole recessive white in Silkies for the entire time I raised them. It's almost like it opposite day with dom becoming recessive when two with the gene are bred together.

But now I'm even more confused. If it takes both parents carrying the gene to pass on the lethal gene, how is it the DIS numbers are the same if one is long legged?


----------



## robin416

I'm sorry that things don't look good for Fraz. Is internal organ deficiencies part of the breeding issues?


----------



## Poultry Judge

Thanks Dan and Robin. This is a good conversation!


----------



## danathome

="robin416, post: 193808, member: 6488"]Yes. But I struggled with the whole recessive white in Silkies for the entire time I raised them. It's almost like it opposite day with dom becoming recessive when two with the gene are bred together. The dominant gene does not become recessive, but acts like a recessive in that the two alleles produce something different. In this case death or with the frizzle gene-frazzle. Yes, definitely confusing. I believe researchers have much more work to do before genetics is fully understood.

*But now I'm even more confused. If it takes both parents carrying the gene to pass on the lethal gene, how is it the DIS numbers are the same if one is long legged?*
When a long legged is paired with a short legged any DIS is not caused by the creeper gene. When I paired long leg Snow with short leg Sadie, there was no DIS; six eggs hatched and are thriving. A seventh egg-the first egg laid was clear-infertile.


----------



## robin416

Or put in plain language so it isn't so darned confusing. 

So, what caused all the DIS with that pairing? 

Not really expecting you to know that answer unless you're a secret geneticist. 

Does the breed overall have a high DIS ratio when compared to other breeds?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Or put in plain language so it isn't so darned confusing.
> 
> So, what caused all the DIS with that pairing? Not really expecting you to know that answer unless you're a secret geneticist. *My high rate of DIS was caused by the creeper gene. Other than Snow, every serama I have is short legged and has the creeper gene. As I said before, each individual bird may not follow the predicted results of researchers. Instead of the predicted 25% DIS, my serama were more like 95% DIS. With Snow any DIS will be from other factors. I'm hoping the young short leg cockerel will be the 25% with the hens I have now. Once he is paired with long leg hens the creeper gene will be neutralized and any DIS will be from other factors like Snow.*​
> Does the breed overall have a high DIS ratio when compared to other breeds?


 *This depends on the individual lines. Mine does not have a higher DIS when the creeper gene is not an issue.*


----------



## robin416

I really think I'm beginning to understand this with the Seramas. Not sure how much I'll retain but it not so muddy now. 

Thanks Dan for being patient.


----------



## danathome

Robin-I have problems retaining this stuff and it was part of my science curriculum that I taught for a couple decades to my 6-8 students. Of course it never got so complicated as trying to explain how dominant genes can act like recessive genes.

There is still much to learn. I have questions that still have no answers, but in time... Even when teaching, the curriculum had to be revised each year to reflect what researchers had learned in the previous year.


----------



## robin416

When they would get to talking the alphabet soup of genes my eyes would cross. There was one Silkie breeder who could put those letters into English so everyone got a better understanding. 

I'm a visual learner. This type of learning is not easy for me and now that I'm adult I know I'll always be a visual learner.


----------



## danathome

Yes. In school I used Punnett Squares to show predicted outcomes on the blackboard. Living examples increased interest; something interesting always makes learning easier. Raising silver and normal button quail in the classroom made genetics easier to understand as did 
cockatiel-conure-bantam-dog visits. My interest in birds proved to be a valuable asset. When the kids had something to relate genetics to, a potentially boring subject became loads of fun for them. Many of the children were visual learners. I miss teaching.


----------



## robin416

It would be good if you could find a way to be a guest teacher a couple of times a month.


----------



## danathome

When we first moved to TN I did quite a bit of substitute teaching, but as my health declined and walking became unsure the schools started to see me as an accident waiting to happen. Insurance the way it is, the schools made it plain they didn't want me in the building. Probably for the best.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Yes Dan, exactly right. As a government employee I had a similar experience as my Epilepsy worsened in recent years. We live in a liability driven system.


----------



## danathome

This is the yellow chick I THOUGHT was a cross between serama and phoenix. He didn't turn out white as I thought he would. The color did not come out well in the picture; it's actually very much like the porcelain d'Uccle. But the cockerel would have been just 3 1/2 months old. There is no other trait like d'Uccle, so now I have no idea what this chick is. It may be pure serama, but a very poor one. His back doesn't seem as long and the tail is never held vertically. It is possible he is from WV Snowflake so I'm going to e-mail Natalie, the lady I got Snow from, and ask if she has this color in her flock.


----------



## robin416

He might be a poor example but he's adorable. 

Question, are males Seramas ever mean to humans?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> He might be a poor example but he's adorable.
> *I think he is adorable too. I have looked him over carefully and he does not show any traits that would be present if he were a cross. Overmountain will be getting a pure serama if she still wants him.*
> Question, are males Seramas ever mean to humans?


*Yes and no. Aggression is a trait that can be bred out of a flock. My very first serama roosters were mean and quick to fly in my face talons outward. By selecting roosters that were docile and friendly, aggression was gone from my flock in just a few generations.*


----------



## robin416

It is so hard to imagine anything that adorable could ever be mean.

Yeah, there were a couple of roosters I wouldn't breed from either. Although I did breed from a rotten hen, she was a mess. Not mean to humans but she lorded her superiority over everyone in the coop.


----------



## danathome

With the creeper gene I have been moaning and whining about its effects and not having any normal legged hens to pair with my short legged roosters. Funny how a person doesn't see what they don't expect to see. Last week my one remaining pullet of generation 15 started to lay. Yesterday I was standing by the coop watching the birds and saw that there WAS a normal legged pullet; generation 15. She is from 2 short legged parents and going by genetics she should have short legs too, but doesn't. How that happened is a mystery, but yeah! Now I have a hen to use with Pablo and YC.

My new cochin hens are laying every day. I hope they go broody soon. With my other hens I can predict when, but with these new birds I can't. Both hens are using the same nest so I set up an identical nest, side by side. This usually works with my other breeds. Now to wait. So far the hens have produced 17 eggs, so the first to start laying should go broody within the next week. Since the weather is freezing at night on some days, I have been collecting eggs and replacing them with dummy eggs as they are laid. The first 4 eggs are under my Yokohama hen and all are still developing. One of my regular customers has asked to be 1st on my list when I have chicks to sell.


----------



## robin416

Refresh my memory, are Pablo and YC short legged? 

You know the more I see that Cochin boy, the more I think you have something there to work with.


----------



## danathome

Yes, Pablo (pet house rooster) and YC are short legged.

Blue is OK for just general breeding, but not OK for improving the flock; just too many flaws. But to find a blue rooster may not be so easy.

I like these birds so much that I am hoping to build up a small laying flock. They lay a small-medium size egg and produce well. Perfect for our use and if the hens are not with a rooster Kimmi will use them for household purposes. City girl that she is, she won't use fertilized eggs as it would be killing a baby.


----------



## robin416

Well, then. There's another question to be answered. She came from short legged parents. What will that mean for progeny coming from that pairing?

Bob wanted nothing to do with fertilized eggs either so she's not alone. I just didn't tell him.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Well, then. There's another question to be answered. She came from short legged parents. What will that mean for progeny coming from that pairing?*It should be that she doesn't carry the creeper gene, but ???????
> 
> According to BYC short to short will produce 25% dead, 50% short, and 25% long/normal legs and that's what the research says too. This does not hold true when short leg has been used for generations. With mine, short to short had been producing -25% dead and 100% short legged. Lately the percentages have changed to 95% dead and the rest short legged.
> 
> So I will have to experiment to find out the answer to your question.
> *
> Bob wanted nothing to do with fertilized eggs either so she's not alone. I just didn't tell him.


*All because of a tiny cell that doesn't change the taste one bit; they're both a bit coo-coo. But then, I can't claim to be otherwise.*


----------



## robin416

And we'll be following that experiment right along with you.


----------



## danathome

The difference, I assume, is that after generations of short to short my flock no longer carries the long leg gene, but one does to produce my long leg pullet. And that one bird has to be a hen hatched from shipped eggs years ago. She is the only serama hen I have not of my line. Has to be two that have the long leg gene to produce a long legged pullet, so YC has to be the hens son. Just too blasted confusing. Sorry, I type what I'm thinking. Just glad to have the pullet I needed.


----------



## robin416

Basically you're talking to yourself but this is a better way to do it. You actually have words that allow trace back to what you're thinking was.


----------



## danathome

Three weeks old-This is what Snowflake's chicks look like. Pretty good and not too big of step backwards. Of the first 6 chicks, 5 are cockerels. Two of the cockerels sold yesterday with 1 more to sell. Two of the cockerels I wish to keep to see how good they look when mature; I predict they will be as nice as what I have now. The one pullet will go in the trade for Kimmi's 2 kids.


----------



## robin416

That little bird is just too adorable. One of those pics that causes an automatic smile.

What two kids?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> That little bird is just too adorable. One of those pics that causes an automatic smile.
> 
> What two kids?


*The trade of my birds for Kimmi's 2 mini goat kids. She'll soon be a mom to two kids. Two kids for two hen turkeys, some cochin, and some serama and and and. Two hundred dollars in birds for two Nigerian drawf goats-kids not quite weaned. Kimmi wants to bottle feed. I'm sure I mentioned this in one of my posts*.


----------



## robin416

You might have but it totally left my brain or I missed the post. 

I hope you're ready for this. Those babies are going to be in everything and that doesn't change as they become adults.


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> You might have but it totally left my brain or I missed the post.
> 
> I hope you're ready for this. Those babies are going to be in everything and that doesn't change as they become adults.


But bottle feeding them is the best part! I've had two flocks of goats over the years, they were the most destructive animals I've ever had on the farm.


----------



## robin416

That is so true. And they're escape artists. I used to get calls when we still lived in the mountains that my goat was out again. It got old after a while. 

With those negatives, it really is hard not to fall in love with goats. They're so personable and like their humans quite a bit.


----------



## danathome

We have done our research and we are as ready as can be. We have, both, wanted goats for many years. We have two pens ready as they grow and hope to have the whole back yard fenced this summer; it's half done now-1 1/2 acres.


----------



## robin416

That is exactly why having them makes it worth having the aggravation.

One huge positive? Mine eradicated the poison oak in my pasture.


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> That is so true. And they're escape artists. I used to get calls when we still lived in the mountains that my goat was out again. It got old after a while.
> 
> With those negatives, it really is hard not to fall in love with goats. They're so personable and like their humans quite a bit.


I had a neighbor who would bring my Pygmy group back, he would say, "Don't you want your goats back?" They were very successful at going under fences.


----------



## robin416

LOL That's actually too cute.


----------



## danathome

That's a great positive. We have a lot of poison oak and Kimmi has a hard time with the stuff if she touched it. It's not so bad with me, but still not something I want to go through.


----------



## danathome

Snowflake.


----------



## robin416

He's adorable. I can see now why people are so partial to them.


----------



## danathome

Sei-looking good for such a poor start (chick that had seizures).


----------



## robin416

How odd, I was just wondering the other day about the hard start peep. Overall, how is he doing? Do you still see signs of that hard start?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> How odd, I was just wondering the other day about the hard start peep. Overall, how is he doing? Do you still see signs of that hard start?


He is absolutely normal in every way; a very unusual color. There has been no sign of any problem after he reached a week in age.

OVERMOUNTAIN-I saw the other day about your rooster difficulties. Are you still wanting him? I do believe he is full serama.


----------



## robin416

It's hard to tell from the pic what color he is other than there's white there.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> It's hard to tell from the pic what color he is other than there's white there.


When Kimmi is up and about I will have her take a good picture as the color is hard to describe.


----------



## danathome

Rather like the color







of the Porcelain d'Uccle.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> View attachment 37552
> 
> 
> Rather like the color
> View attachment 37550
> of the Porcelain d'Uccle.


Very nice!


----------



## robin416

He's a buff. I know they used buffs and lavenders to make porcelain Silkies. Not knowing how they were able to develop porcelains in Serams after you mentioned there are no buffs he's a bit of a surprise.


----------



## danathome

A surprise he is. I had thought he might be from the porcelain d'Uccle cockerel when he was alive. But no, there is nothing in his body make-up that shows he's a cross of any kind. For such a misshapened chick he has turned into a nice serama cockerel.

I have been reading about nutrients within a developing egg and have learned that if the nutrients are deficient the embryo dies or develops badly; a possible answer to why the seizures etc. Problem is I can't see how the eggs would be nutrient poor with how my birds are fed----but, like children, our birds do not always eat what's good for them.


----------



## danathome

The turkey nesting season has officially started two months early. I found their 1st egg today and judging by their behavior it won't be long before the other turkey hens start to lay.


----------



## robin416

They might eat what they need but not utilize everything they take in.

Your turkeys, my Guineas. I'm very surprised to see their behavior. There was an egg in the pen this morning.


----------



## danathome

Spring has sprung. The weather stays like this I'm betting my old fashion rose will bloom.

Long day-Kimmi is painting her Mom's house inside. I've been putting up nest boxes and trying to make the nest that has the cochin eggs turkey proof. The first cochin eggs hatch next week if those stinkin' turkeys haven't ruined them. I'll candle tomorrow and see.
A guinea egg-lucky you! An omelet????

At long last a serama hen has gone broody on seven eggs and I found another nest with six eggs so perhaps I will have some serama chicks to sell.


----------



## robin416

I don't envy Kimmi's job today. Painting is hard, tedious work. 

One of the advantages of keeping different species in their own digs. What are the turkeys doing with the Cochin nest anyway?

Nope, I'll collect it and toss it. I'm not all that certain I'm going to let them hatch anything this year.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> I don't envy Kimmi's job today. Painting is hard, tedious work.
> *I do not envy her either; especially doing it for her picky mom.*
> One of the advantages of keeping different species in their own digs. What are the turkeys doing with the Cochin nest anyway? *Turkeys don't bother the nests unless they are looking for one for themselves. Today the turkey egg was laid in the with the cochin eggs that are being brooded. That nest is now blocked from the turkey hen and a similar nest box put up close to the first nest.*
> 
> Nope, I'll collect it and toss it. I'm not all that certain I'm going to let them hatch anything this year.


*I have eaten guinea eggs and they taste the same as chicken eggs; at least to me they did.*


----------



## robin416

Hopefully, her mother leaves her be so she can get it done and come home in one piece. 

OK, so turkeys are as bad as chickens. They want a communal nest. Even if it doesn't belong to another turkey.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Hopefully, her mother leaves her be so she can get it done and come home in one piece.
> 
> OK, so turkeys are as bad as chickens. They want a communal nest. Even if it doesn't belong to another turkey.


Yes and no. My turkey hens take the nest site and destroy what eggs are there. I was lucky that the turkey didn't destroy the cochin eggs.


----------



## robin416

I can see it happening just by virtue of the turkey being bigger and heavier. 

Are turkey eggs like Guinea eggs? Do they have a really thick shell?


----------



## danathome

While turkey eggs do have a thicker shell, the eggs are destroyed purposely. I have had these turkeys brood and hatch chicks; even bantam eggs. Turkeys are surprisingly careful when brooding eggs; much more so than large chickens.


----------



## danathome

I would not call Sei a buff. The color is more a lavendar with a buff wash over it. The wings and flights don't have the brown and his underside is mostly lavendar too. It will be interesting to see what he looks like when he gets his adult feathers.


----------



## robin416

Even with Kimmi taking the pic the color doesn't come through. All I can see is buff.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Even with Kimmi taking the pic the color doesn't come through. All I can see is buff.


No, it just doesn't show the way the color is. Sei is such an endearing little bird. He's sitting behind me on the foot stool chirping away; and it look like he's getting ready to fly over to me. I'm starting to wish I hadn't given him away.


----------



## robin416

What? You did what?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> What? You did what?


I gave Sei to overmountain when he was a tiny chick.

Overmountain-would you mind terribly if I did a switch. I_ have a beautiful black and white cockerel who will likely be a splash when grown. He'd be a good start for serama; just need a hen._


----------



## robin416

Am I ever behind. I know she met up with you for a bird exchange but I thought Sei was a recent hatch.


----------



## danathome

We (Kimmi more than I) have stayed in touch after meeting. When Sei was less than a week old and having seizures Overmountain said she would like him and I gave him to her in a post on the group. But now.. He has been in my lap and on my knee or sitting close to me for the last few days, so now he comes looking for me when I leave the room. I guess the bird has picked me instead of me picking him. It started with my fascination with the color and then him chirping until I took him out of the tub.


----------



## danathome

Sei is about a month old; I'd have to look back at prior posts for the exact age.

The black and white cockerel is the better serama so I'm hoping overmountain will be good with the exchange. Sorry overmountain.


----------



## robin416

OK, that all makes more sense. She doesn't have him yet but said she'd take him.

We need to figure out how to keep you from jumping too quickly when it comes to rehoming certain birds. 

Although PJ mentioned selling Goliath the other day. Really? Sell Goliath? He kind of backed off on that idea.


----------



## danathome

Maybe one of you can think of something I haven't. The neighbors keeping their dog locked up has been short lived and it has been coming into my yard. I've talked with the neighbors and straight out told them I would shoot the dog given the chance. They refuse to pay damages insisting it wasn't their dog. There's no mistaking it-the dog is medium size, black, and has one ear that stands up and the other flops down so there's no chance I am mistaking it for another dog. I have all the birds locked in except the turkeys. So far the dog has fled before I can shoot. Poisons and electric fencing are not an option. Right now I'm releasing my dogs every time the birds sound the alarm to chase the dog away; after looking to see if I can get a shot at it. We're going to call the police about the problem. Any ideas?

With six ducks and five chickens dead I certainly don't want to loose any more. Any ideas you may have would be appreciated.


----------



## robin416

Other than the hotwire around the area I really don't have any ideas. Even then, one that stubborn may just keep trying. 

Check to see what rescue groups are in the area. See if they'll set up a live trap and take the dog.


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> Other than the hotwire around the area I really don't have any ideas. Even then, one that stubborn may just keep trying.
> 
> Check to see what rescue groups are in the area. See if they'll set up a live trap and take the dog.


Robin has a good idea, I would also file the police report just to go on record.


----------



## danathome

Yes, I like the live trap idea; now to find a trap big enough. Thank you.


----------



## robin416

I'd tell them that's what you're going to do. See if that helps keep their dog off your property. Tell them you're going to catch it and turn it into the shelter.


----------



## danathome

My telling them I'd shoot the dog made no difference, so I doubt anything will make a difference. The best thing, for me and what's mine, is to shoot the animal. If I can find a big live trap the dog won't live long after being caught.


----------



## danathome

Update on Fraz the frazzle serama. The jaundice has disappeared so his liver has mended (?) and Fraz appears to be healthy again. He's sharing a tub with Sei. I'm hoping to tame him like Sei, but he apparently did not get the friendly, trusting gene that most of my serama have. I'm hoping Sei will be a good influence. When I can get Kimmi to take a picture I will post it. Fraz is about the ugliest serama I've ever seen.

I hope this day has been a good one for everybody.


----------



## robin416

LOL Fraz must be ugly for you to say something about his looks. 

But it great that he's feeling better. Maybe his looks will improve too.


----------



## danathome

Fraz.


----------



## robin416

I didn't even need to see his name to know that had to be Fraz. You're right, he's a sad example of just about anything.


----------



## danathome

Yes, even his body is distorted. He won't be an outside bird as he doesn't have enough feathers to keep warm or to prevent sunburn. But, if his posture improves, he does have the ability to produce 100% frizzle chicks when paired to smooth or silkied hens. This MAY be a good thing in that many people ask for frizzle serama. It depends on fertility and how good the offspring are. Quite like I will give him a chance to find out. Fraz's grandmother was also a frazzle and she produced beautiful frizzle babies.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> Yes, even his body is distorted. He won't be an outside bird as he doesn't have enough feathers to keep warm or to prevent sunburn. But, if his posture improves, he does have the ability to produce 100% frizzle chicks when paired to smooth or silkied hens. This MAY be a good thing in that many people ask for frizzle serama. It depends on fertility and how good the offspring are. Quite like I will give him a chance to find out. Fraz's grandmother was also a frazzle and she produced beautiful frizzle babies.


Very cool, he may improve as time goes on.


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Very cool, he may improve as time goes on.


I hope so and there's a good chance he will. The grandmother did improve in feathering as she got older.


----------



## Overmountain1

What a little peanut. Awwww. I’m glad he seems to be improving- I hope that trend continues!!


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> What a little peanut. Awwww. I'm glad he seems to be improving- I hope that trend continues!!


I rather think it will as he is getting closer to maturity.


----------



## danathome

This is one of Snow's six chicks; all are about the same-strong and healthy and disappointing. Why? Three have already gone to homes where they will be house pets and not breeding stock. And yes, there is a chance they MIGHT improve as they get older.


----------



## robin416

Why do the feathers look messy? I don't remember Snow's genetics. 

Strong is always a plus for breeding stock but sometimes having too much breeding stock gets confusing.


----------



## danathome

The feathers do look messed up from being overcrowded (which has been taken care of-they do grow fast) and catching an unwilling volunteer.
You asked at one time that I post a serama picture so the group could point out flaws.
For his age the feathers are normal though in disarray.


----------



## robin416

So, he's in that messy teenage phase. I remember those times.


----------



## danathome

This is my idea of the perfect serama; wings at a 45 degree angle, a nice upright body, vertical tail, a wide chest that will fill out as he matures, good body size, nice size comb and wattles, and best of all-a sweet, friendly personality; the kind of bird that would make an excellent pet. Sei is my very 1st "perfect" serama. My idea of a perfect serama does not match "show" quality as I don't care for the extremes of show.

I will take the chance and use Sei as a breeder. (And this the chick that had seizures and I labeled as a reject because of all the flaws that were present as a chick.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> View attachment 37574
> 
> 
> This is my idea of the perfect serama; wings at a 45 degree angle, a nice upright body, vertical tail, a wide chest that will fill out as he matures, good body size, nice size comb and wattles, and best of all-a sweet, friendly personality; the kind of bird that would make an excellent pet. Sei is my very 1st "perfect" serama. My idea of a perfect serama does not match "show" quality as I don't care for the extremes of show.
> 
> I will take the chance and use Sei as a breeder. (And this the chick that had seizures and I labeled as a reject because of all the flaws that were present as a chick.


Yes, good conformation!


----------



## robin416

Good thing you're not too stubborn when it was suggested to give him a little time. 

He is very appealing to the eye. I don't know what the specs are for show Seramas but to me, they should be modeled after him.


----------



## danathome

Thank you. It is unfortunate that I have no idea of parentage. Sei came from an egg laid on the ground.


----------



## robin416

One of the younger girls?


----------



## danathome

No way of knowing which hen. I had thought it to be a cross, but that's very unlikely considering the breeds I have. Most likely the dad is Snowflake and the coloring comes from the WV flock. I have asked but have gotten no response from Natalie as of yet.


----------



## robin416

Why do you think she could give you an idea?


----------



## danathome

Certain colors show up in serama flocks. If the color is in Snow's background it makes it likely he is Sei's dad. The color isn't one I've seen in my birds.


----------



## robin416

And it can never be like Silkies with odd colors popping up when mixed with other varieties?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> And it can never be like Silkies with odd colors popping up when mixed with other varieties?


Yes, new colors can pop up just as you say. My asking Natalie is just out of curiosity mostly to see if the color exists in her flock.


----------



## robin416

OK, that does make sense. Sometimes I have to have the obvious pointed out to me.


----------



## danathome

And it would be nice if the color is a new one. It's too bad it does not photograph well. But I'm getting ahead of myself in that the colors may change drastically as the cockerel matures.


----------



## robin416

Then the fun really happens if he keeps that color. Choosing a female to put with him.


----------



## Overmountain1

Awww I love him Dan! Super cute little guy. I'm really glad he stayed safe and sound, as you've worked so long to get to what you wanted out of the breed. I don't know a thing about the show specs either but I'd have to agree with your assessment- he's perfect to my eye!


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Then the fun really happens if he keeps that color. Choosing a female to put with him.


White would be nice, but in the absence of white I do have a couple hens that are light pastel in color.


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Aw ww I love him Dan! Super cute little guy. I'm really glad he stayed safe and sound, as you've worked so long to get to what you wanted out of the breed. I don't know a thing about the show specs either but I'd have to agree with your assessment- he's perfect to my eye!


I'm hoping my new fence around the yard will help keep everyone safer. Kimmi's at the auction barn today so I went ahead and put the fencing in place; still have to attach it to the posts and to the ground somehow. Right now there's plastic ties holding the fencing to the posts. That won't hold for long, but long enough to get wires attaching the fencing. Those plastic ties do make work easier.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> I'm hoping my new fence around the yard will help keep everyone safer. Kimmi's at the auction barn today so I went ahead and put the fencing in place; still have to attach it to the posts and to the ground somehow. Right now there's plastic ties holding the fencing to the posts. That won't hold for long, but long enough to get wires attaching the fencing. Those plastic ties do make work easier.


Dan, my whole farm is held together with zip ties! They seem to last for 2-3 years on fence here before they get brittle.


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Dan, my whole farm is held together with zip ties! They seem to last for 2-3 years on fence here before they get brittle.


Here in TN the ties get brittle in the sun and break. Even 2-3 years is not good enough for me as I do not know what I will be able to do in two years; much less next month. So, its heavy wire to attach the fencing.


----------



## danathome

*HERE'S A PROBLEM I CAN'T REMEMBER HAVING DEALT WITH.

Pablo and Road Runner had their first egg 8 days ago. Every other day, since then, Road Runner has gone to the nest as if laying, turns the egg, messes with the nest materials just as a hen about to lay an egg would do. After an hour or so off she comes. I have come to the conclusion that she is laying eggs internally. I've added an egg for each day she has gone to nest. The sooner she goes broody the better. Any suggestions on how to deal with peritonitis? In appearance, RR gives no indication of being sick.*


----------



## robin416

Other than antibiotics if an infection begins, spaying is the only final fix.


----------



## danathome

This is guesswork at best and what I am hoping for.

A hen's body can absorb these unlaid egg yolks. The problem, infections, happens when these yolks build up faster than they can be absorbed. With my serama, an egg is laid every other day and a full clutch is around seven eggs. Should she go broody before peritonitis sets in, RR's body should be able to absorb the yolks. RR has laid eggs before and been broody a couple times, but in a place where she could not easily be observed. I do know I have had a hen go broody on a single egg, but, try as I might, I can not remember which one. Could this be a chronic problem? At this time, I am fairly certain peritonitis has not set in.


----------



## robin416

You'd see it if it has set in. Her eyes won't be bright, she'll be lethargic.


----------



## danathome

Thank you. I will be sure to watch for those symptoms. Do you see any need for her to be on antibiotics now?


----------



## robin416

You know, I didn't say much because I thought you were familiar with the signs of internal laying. There is the possibility of ascites too, so watch for any belly swelling.

I wouldn't do antibiotics yet. I'm one of those that is very cautious about using antibiotics without indicators they're needed. Plus you're not sure that is what's going on. 

Have you examined her?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> You know, I didn't say much because I thought you were familiar with the signs of internal laying. There is the possibility of ascites too, so watch for any belly swelling.
> *I am very frustrated today with someone stealing my tom and now not being able to remember what I know I knew.*
> I wouldn't do antibiotics yet. I'm one of those that is very cautious about using antibiotics without indicators they're needed. Plus you're not sure that is what's going on.
> *+1. I am sure that she is internally laying; there is no other explanation for what I am observing.*
> Have you examined her?


*Daily. She is very tame and handling causes no stress whatsoever.

Pablo and Road Runner have a big plastic tub coop that sits right beside my table and chair where I have my morning pot of coffee. Sei and Fraz have a smaller tub that sits on top of the big tub.

So while I drink coffee, Sei sits on a perch practicing his crowing.

As I drink coffee, each bird and dog is examined-toes clipped-beaks trimmed-dogs checked for parasites and brushed-weights are assessed. The birds don't lose a feather without my knowing it.

Here is what I am observing.
Day 1-Road runner checks out nest box.
Day 2-5 - The nest is ignored. 
Day 6-The 1st egg is laid. Pablo does the egg call the whole time the hen is in the nest.
Day 7-Nothing.
Day 8-RR is on the nest doing what hens do when they are going to lay and Pablo doing the egg call for the hour RR is on the nest.
Day 8-Nothing.
Day 9-An exact repeat of day 8.
This pattern continues, so that now there seems to have been three eggs internally laid.
I, personally believe eggs and the amount of eggs is what stimulates hormones to be produced so that the hen goes broody. This theory has been the source of many debates and pissed people who think they know everything on BYC.
Therefore I have been putting a new egg in the nest each day when I hear and see...*


----------



## robin416

I can't agree or disagree with anything you've said. I'm still withholding judgement on her internally laying. Her hormones can be out of whack. It happens to humans and other animals no reason not to think it can't happen to a bird.


----------



## danathome

There is no way of knowing for sure without cutting her open or have peritonitis set in. I will hope you are right or that we never find out.


----------



## robin416

I always try to look at the better angle of things. I hate worrying myself over something that isn't showing itself. Doesn't mean it won't. This is where I take my stepping back and just watching for a while.


----------



## danathome

The science teacher in me likes theories, possibilities, probabilities, and outcomes. The Scientific Method is quite interesting at times.


----------



## robin416

Yes, it is. But the medical side of me comes into play. Stopping and observing is one of the most important tools we have in our medical kits.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> The science teacher in me likes theories, possibilities, probabilities, and outcomes. The Scientific Method is quite interesting at times.


Yes, it is.


----------



## danathome

Looking better and better. The color in this picture is pretty accurate. Seeing the changes in his plumage the last couple days leads me to think Sei will be a pastel mottled. I do wonder what color the hackle and saddle feathers will be when they grow in.


----------



## robin416

Amazing how much his color is showing in this pic. Now I know what you were talking about.

For a hard start boy, he's doing and looking really good.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Amazing how much his color is showing in this pic. Now I know what you were talking about.
> 
> For a hard start boy, he's doing and looking really good.


I'm quite proud of the little guy. It will be quite interesting to watch his colors change in the next three months.


----------



## danathome

Am I a boy or a girl???? I'm 4 weeks old and a serama.


----------



## robin416

LOL I'm not touching that one.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> LOL I'm not touching that one.


Ah, come on. You have a 50/50 chance of being right!!


----------



## robin416

Also a 50/50 chance of being wrong. This time I want someone else to be wrong first.


----------



## danathome

CLUE

If a person thinks it is a __, it probably isn't.
And if it isn't, then it is a__.


----------



## robin416

Ack!!! That's a clue?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Ack!!! That's a clue?


I made the clue easier. Use what you know and fill in the blanks.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> I'm quite proud of the little guy. It will be quite interesting to watch his colors change in the next three months.





danathome said:


> I made the clue easier. Use what you know and fill in the blanks.


Looks like a Raptor!


----------



## danathome

seramabantams.com

This is what I mean by extreme; just not to my taste.


----------



## robin416

That's awful. Whoever did that to that poor bird should be shot.


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> That's awful. Whoever did that to that poor bird should be shot.


That is the problem with breeding fads.


----------



## danathome

So you now know why I don't want "show"! And even then the tail is wrong on that bird so it would not win any shows.


----------



## robin416

Everything about that bird is wrong. I've seen Silkies with the head touching the tail the back was so short. Nope. That's wrong on so many levels.


----------



## danathome

I don't care about this. It reminds me of fantail pigeons which I also disliked. For a time I raised Indian Fantails that are not so extreme as regular fantails.


----------



## danathome

Coldest day of winter and I have cochin hatching. 5 hatched on their own and Kimmi is assisting six others. Due to weather the membranes are wonky preventing the chicks from hating on their own. Please wish us luck. These will be my first blue and splash chicks. I brought the hen and nest indoors where it's warm a while ago.


----------



## robin416

Congratulations! You haven't had them that long and already hatching peeps from them. 

Great decision to bring them in. What are your temps there now? It's got to be beyond cold.


----------



## danathome

Thanks. 21 degrees F., but it has to be much lower with wind chill. I'm hoping all eleven chicks make it safely; 11/11. Will post a picture tomorrow when they are all dry and fluffy.


----------



## danathome

Cold weather has caught me unaware and the bird youngsters are having a hard time with the cold and WET so there's 2 phoenix cockerels in the bathroom, mother hen and chicks in the bedroom, 12 cross juveniles in the kitchen, 5 young serama in the living room, and 4 more serama in the kitchen dinette. I am so thankful for having an understanding and helping wife. AND NINE DOGS THAT DO NOT WANT TO BE OUTSIDE. OMG!


----------



## robin416

I think there's more of JP in you than you realize. I'm not sure he could handle not having a feathered few in his house too. 

Imagine this, further South of you in southern OK it's 10 degrees. I have a friend living there. They're going out every couple of hours to bring their birds liquid water. 

You know all of us want them all to hatch.


----------



## danathome

I've been going out to give drinking water, but not so often. For those in the poultry yard, the ducks are keeping the water from freezing. Two more chicks too hatch. Odd that it's warmer here than OK.


----------



## robin416

Do you mean two left to hatch or two more hatched? 

I'll tell you, that cold is going to be playing games with us in the next few days. Right now the feeling is the Gulf is going to keep it from coming this far south. But only by a hair.


----------



## danathome

I hate the cold and what it does to my plants, birds, etc,

Now there's one egg left to hatch.

I just went out to collect eggs; there's a bird on every nest where there's eggs so they won't freeze tonight.


----------



## robin416

Down here it's what the heat does to the birds and plants. Anymore planting a garden before August will just get you a cooked garden. Then there's all the work to keep the birds from over heating.


----------



## danathome

All eleven are strong healthy chicks. The hen did great; a 100% hatch.


----------



## robin416

Hi babies. Welcome to the North Pole. 

Wait, you said you sold them all? How the heck are going to know how your rooster did when it comes to his genetics?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Hi babies. Welcome to the North Pole.
> 
> Wait, you said you sold them all? How the heck are going to know how your rooster did when it comes to his genetics?


Kimmi has decided she wants to keep one as a pet-yeah! I am happy to see Kimmi getting interested in the birds again. As to your question, another hen went broody yesterday (one of the crested hens-white one) so I gave her 12 eggs to hatch so I'd have some chicks for myself. Those in the picture are going to Kimberley, (goat lady) as part of the trade to get Kimmi's kids; next week, we hope.


----------



## robin416

OK. Those two girls are going gangbusters with their non stop laying.


----------



## danathome

Not really. This will be her second nesting/brooding. I'd rather that she have taken a longer break like her sister, but...


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> All eleven are strong healthy chicks. The hen did great; a 100% hatch.
> 
> View attachment 37624


Nice pic Dan!


----------



## danathome

One of Kiimi's, of course. Thank you.


----------



## danathome

This is the hen I believe to be laying internally. Each time I see her go to the nest to "lay" every other day, I add a fresh serama egg to her nest. There is now 6 eggs in the nest and the hen has started to cluck-the first sign of broodiness.


----------



## robin416

I would think you'd see some signs of internal laying by now.


----------



## Poultry Judge

She's digging the boombox box.


----------



## robin416

LOL Giggle, giggle.


----------



## danathome

The abdomen is somewhat soft, but not as much as one would expect. I wonder how long it takes for a yolk to be absorbed by the body.

It's too bad I'm not rich. An x ray would solve the issue.


----------



## danathome

I just went out to the serama coop to dispose of the eggs that didn't hatch two days ago. This was truly a pleasant surprise!

Five new serama chicks. Late because of our frigid weather.


----------



## robin416

Those girls can be really sneaky when it comes to what's hatched.

Are they now in the warm toasty house and is Kimmi looking at you with the look?


----------



## danathome

Yes, mores birds in the house. Kimmi seemed thrilled with the new babies, but I am quite ready to return the mess outside to their coops. It's suppose to warm up Saturday and out they go. While Kimmi has been patient, I am tired of feathers and dust everywhere. It's one thing to have a house chicken, but a flock... I'm about ready to throttle the phoenix with the cochin chicks with all her scratching and flapping. It's one big chore to clean up after her. There's wood chips everywhere.


----------



## robin416

LOL I remember those days. But mine were in my home office so the mess was confined to that area. The feather dust was astounding. I'm surprised it didn't fry my computer tower.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> I just went out to the serama coop to dispose of the eggs that didn't hatch two days ago. This was truly a pleasant surprise!
> 
> Five new serama chicks. Late because of our frigid weather.
> View attachment 37648


That's great!


----------



## danathome

Phoenix are much more dusty and dirty than the serama. And the amount of feed! With several inches of snow and the severe cold there is no free ranging. The feed bill has more than doubled.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> Phoenix are much more dusty and dirty than the serama. And the amount of feed! With several inches of snow and the severe cold there is no free ranging. The feed bill has more than doubled.


I hear you Dan, I'm at about 35 pounds of layer feed and scratch per day.


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> That's great!


5 chicks from 6 eggs! Snowflake has made a great difference in the serama hatch rate!


----------



## Overmountain1

Hooray! Good job Snowflake!  
That is awesome news!


----------



## danathome

RR is spending the first night brooding the eggs in her boom box box. Going by the serama behavior I have observed in the past, her last egg will be "laid" tomorrow and full time brooding will start. Is there something else that would make this bird act as though she had laid a full clutch besides internal laying?


----------



## robin416

How old is she? I'm wondering if this is an age thing. 

I had girls that became infertile at fairly young ages but they didn't quit laying.


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> How old is she? I'm wondering if this is an age thing.
> 
> I had girls that became infertile at fairly young ages but they didn't quit laying.


Yes, might be a factor.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> How old is she? I'm wondering if this is an age thing.
> 
> I had girls that became infertile at fairly young ages but they didn't quit laying.


About a year old; seemingly in perfect health. She is now brooding full time. If this sort of thing happened before I did not know it as they were outside.

Whatever the case, it is apparent that the hen thought she was laying. Her behavior has been exactly that of a hen that laid a clutch and then became broody-very odd.


----------



## robin416

Only time is going to tell what is up with her.


----------



## danathome

Being broody is a good thing in that her body will now have a rest, regardless of what's wrong.


----------



## danathome

I candled RR's eggs. She has three eggs that I gave her developing. Her own were clear.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> I candled RR's eggs. She has three eggs that I gave her developing. Her own were clear.


Is she sitting consistently now?


----------



## danathome

According to genetic studies a pairing of blue and splash cochin sould yield 50/50 blue and splash. Of the first 14 chicks to hatch. all are splash. As I said in the past those genetic studies deal in over-alls and not the individual results. My cochins are a drastic case of individual results.

(Note the white wing feather-blues do not have white flights.)


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Is she sitting consistently now?


*Yes, for about a week now.*


----------



## Poultry Judge

See that's the thing Dan, I wonder how good the studies are, they're mostly mathematical predictors and there are always outlying variables in the real world. Each bird is it's own genetic library. Your grassroots work and sharing the genetic results of your birds is much appreciated.


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> See that's the thing Dan, I wonder how good the studies are, they're mostly mathematical predictors and there are always outlying variables in the real world. Each bird is it's own genetic library. Your grassroots work and sharing the genetic results of your birds is much appreciated.


*I see the studies as what can occur and not what will occur. The studies are great in telling what kind of chicks can result from a pairing.*


----------



## robin416

I see the same thing when it comes to describing poultry diseases, the list the absolute worst things that can be seen or happen when reality can be totally different.


----------



## danathome

*There was supposed to be a new serama family today, but so far, NOTHING! I'm hoping they're just late because of the severe cold we had.The hen only has two eggs that survived this far*.


----------



## robin416

Fingers crossed that's all it is.


----------



## danathome

*It's a first timer and I'd like her to have something to raise.*


----------



## robin416

You too? I thought that was a woman thing. I really hated when things didn't come together for a first time Mom.

I also hated to have first time moms that tried to kill their chicks as they hatched.


----------



## danathome

*It just seems best when they can complete the full cycle. I have a batch of cochin eggs due to hatch next week. Should the serama eggs fail I'm going to give her a few of the cochin eggs to finish hatching and raise. As soon as it's dark enough I'll do a quick candling on the two serama eggs.*


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> You too? I thought that was a woman thing. I really hated when things didn't come together for a first time Mom.
> 
> I also hated to have first time moms that tried to kill their chicks as they hatched.


Yup.


----------



## robin416

danathome said:


> *It just seems best when they can complete the full cycle. I have a batch of cochin eggs due to hatch next week. Should the serama eggs fail I'm going to give her a few of the cochin eggs to finish hatching and raise. As soon as it's dark enough I'll do a quick candling on the two serama eggs.*


I fully believe there is a hormonal cycle to complete, from laying all the way to raising peeps. It's one of the reasons I'm against trying to break a broody. It might happen for a short period of time but in no time she'll be broody again.


----------



## danathome

*This is Dottie. She has not laid in several months. I brought her in to get her nails done and to put her under observation. There is no signs of an illness, but I am paranoid/overly cautious when it comes to poultry diseases*.










A nice little bird. Her tail could be a bit more vertical.


----------



## robin416

I don't get overly stressed over them not laying if everything else seems to be fine. Some just quit laying at young ages. I even had one that never layed.

Pretty girl. I would be sad if she has decided she's done laying.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> I don't get overly stressed over them not laying if everything else seems to be fine. Some just quit laying at young ages. I even had one that never layed.
> 
> Pretty girl. I would be sad if she has decided she's done laying.


*She is just a year old and has laid-brooded-hatched chicks. I do not mind her taking a break, but I do fear disease. If she proves to be healthy, the eggs will come in time. If ill, then the appropriate measures will be taken. I rarely keep birds beyond a year and a half before they are sold; unless they are pets-like Pablo. It's a pet peeve of mine that some people sell their old/ used up birds as younger. A serama under two will produce for the buyer.*


----------



## danathome

*I have had a couple hens that never laid. Sold as pets with full disclosure.*


----------



## robin416

I did the same thing with the one hen I had that never laid. She was a pretty thing so someone got a nice lawn ornament.

I kept my birds that quit laying at a young age. Some I had even became infertile even though they would lay every day.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> *I have had a couple hens that never laid. Sold as pets with full disclosure.*


She looks pretty good.


----------



## danathome

*The is first-time mom Freckles with four cochin chicks. It was a disappointment when her own eggs failed to hatch. I think you can see why I'm disappointed.







*


----------



## robin416

She is a pretty little thing. 

What do you think of the Cochin chicks so far?


----------



## danathome

*They are strong and healthy. As to quality, they are much too young to tell.*


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> *The is first-time mom Freckles with four cochin chicks. It was a disappointment when her own eggs failed to hatch. I think you can see why I'm disappointed.
> View attachment 40307
> *


Very nice!


----------



## robin416

And you're not keeping any of these to see what they become. Right?


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> And you're not keeping any of these to see what they become. Right?


Hopefully, these will hatch.


----------



## danathome

Overmountain is coming for a visit tomorrow (yeah!) and is bringing the Poofy Boys. They ARE so much better than Blue that they will make a huge improvement to my cochin chicks. And I've have some nice birds for her too. And a surprise...not gonna tell. I know that Kimmi is looking forward to showing off the kids.
The Poofy Boys are beautiful partridge cochin; paired to my splash I'm hoping for calico and better body shapes in the chicks.

Oddly, the cochin do not seem interested in brooding-just laying eggs like a leghorn. For me, that is not a good quality.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> And you're not keeping any of these to see what they become. Right?


*Yes, I will be keeping a few, for a time, to evaluate the quality. But really, when all the parents have numerous flaws keeping any to see results is an exercise in futility.*


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Hopefully, these will hatch.


*They have hatched and there will soon be more-then no more until a new rooster is in place.*


----------



## robin416

danathome said:


> Overmountain is coming for a visit tomorrow (yeah!) and is bringing the Poofy Boys. They ARE so much better than Blue that they will make a huge improvement to my cochin chicks. And I've have some nice birds for her too. And a surprise...not gonna tell. I know that Kimmi is looking forward to showing off the kids.
> The Poofy Boys are beautiful partridge cochin; paired to my splash I'm hoping for calico and better body shapes in the chicks.
> 
> Oddly, the cochin do not seem interested in brooding-just laying eggs like a leghorn. For me, that is not a good quality.


She did say she was making a run to your place to play bird swap. I thought her Cochin boys were red? And they're large fowl, aren't they?


----------



## robin416

danathome said:


> *Yes, I will be keeping a few, for a time, to evaluate the quality. But really, when all the parents have numerous flaws keeping any to see results is an exercise in futility.*


Fixable. And those that breed show birds do use birds with flaws if there are other qualities they want to work with. Unless they're genetic, like wry tail, very often they get some good results.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> She did say she was making a run to your place to play bird swap. I thought her Cochin boys were red? And they're large fowl, aren't they?


While bantam, the splash are over-sized so the match will work. Partridge roosters are red.


----------



## Overmountain1

Nope! They’re bantam- the one fella is on the larger side, and he’s 2.5 lbs (of love)- I think 2 of those are from feathers- wow! The Cochin have such beautiful thick feathering! Love cuddling with them, we were so disappointed they are both boys. A hen would’ve been perfect. Oh well- now I know the twins get to stay together at a wonderful loving home! I can’t ask for more than that but DAN and Kimmi are so sweet- I think it’s a good thing I’m driving the truck down this time!  
No but really, me and Tristan are very much looking forward to all aspects of the trip. And I get to play with their kids!  I adore goats. They’re hilarious.









I just took this a few minutes ago- this is the slightly larger one, Clock. They are both such gentle idiots, we love them and will miss them, but it’s definitely for the best!! No complaints here. They’re good boys, they get to stay together, and I know they’re going to be loved. Dan, you’ll soon see why we call these two twins even though they clearly aren’t. Diff mothers at the least I believe, so it’s better for your breeding program too I hope. You sneaky thing, I’m gonna end up with a backseat full of chickens! And love it. Tristan was already planning who to hold on the way home.......


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Fixable. And those that breed show birds do use birds with flaws if there are other qualities they want to work with. Unless they're genetic, like wry tail, very often they get some good results.


Yes, breeders use flawed birds, as most birds have flaws, but you look for birds that have desirable characteristics and with as few flaws as possible. So its a no brainer to use her larger birds with their wonderful look and then pick the smaller for the next generation and breed down in size. Size, as a trait, is easier to fix than some other flaws.


----------



## robin416

Seeing your son holding them they looked like large fowl. I guess your boy is younger than I thought he was. But don't tell him I said that. 

They're still big boys for bantams.


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Nope! They’re bantam- the one fella is on the larger side, and he’s 2.5 lbs (of love)- I think 2 of those are from feathers- wow! The Cochin have such beautiful thick feathering! Love cuddling with them, we were so disappointed they are both boys. A hen would’ve been perfect. Oh well- now I know the twins get to stay together at a wonderful loving home! I can’t ask for more than that but DAN and Kimmi are so sweet- I think it’s a good thing I’m driving the truck down this time!
> No but really, me and Tristan are very much looking forward to all aspects of the trip. And I get to play with their kids!  I adore goats. They’re hilarious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just took this a few minutes ago- this is the slightly larger one, Clock. They are both such gentle idiots, we love them and will miss them, but it’s definitely for the best!! No complaints here. They’re good boys, they get to stay together, and I know they’re going to be loved. Dan, you’ll soon see why we call these two twins even though they clearly aren’t. Diff mothers at the least I believe, so it’s better for your breeding program too I hope. You sneaky thing, I’m gonna end up with a backseat full of chickens! And love it. Tristan was already planning who to hold on the way home.......


Yeah to their being bantam. I pretty much know which Tristan will be holding...or, maybe he'll take turns with them. We are very excited about tomorrow and looking forward to seeing you and yours

I HOPE THEY GET THE BUGS IN THE SITE STRAIGHTENED OUT SOON.


----------



## Overmountain1

Can’t wait! I’m trying to get things ready around here so I won’t have to fool with it when we get home etc.


----------



## robin416

danathome said:


> Yeah to their being bantam. I pretty much know which Tristan will be holding...or, maybe he'll take turns with them. We are very excited about tomorrow and looking forward to seeing you and yours
> 
> I HOPE THEY GET THE BUGS IN THE SITE STRAIGHTENED OUT SOON.


Fixed it, I think. 

I think OM is more excited for the road trip and seeing you two again as much as the swap.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Overmountain1 said:


> Nope! They’re bantam- the one fella is on the larger side, and he’s 2.5 lbs (of love)- I think 2 of those are from feathers- wow! The Cochin have such beautiful thick feathering! Love cuddling with them, we were so disappointed they are both boys. A hen would’ve been perfect. Oh well- now I know the twins get to stay together at a wonderful loving home! I can’t ask for more than that but DAN and Kimmi are so sweet- I think it’s a good thing I’m driving the truck down this time!
> No but really, me and Tristan are very much looking forward to all aspects of the trip. And I get to play with their kids!  I adore goats. They’re hilarious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just took this a few minutes ago- this is the slightly larger one, Clock. They are both such gentle idiots, we love them and will miss them, but it’s definitely for the best!! No complaints here. They’re good boys, they get to stay together, and I know they’re going to be loved. Dan, you’ll soon see why we call these two twins even though they clearly aren’t. Diff mothers at the least I believe, so it’s better for your breeding program too I hope. You sneaky thing, I’m gonna end up with a backseat full of chickens! And love it. Tristan was already planning who to hold on the way home.......


Nice pic! Be safe on the drive.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Fixed it, I think.
> 
> I think OM is more excited for the road trip and seeing you two again as much as the swap.


I know we are as well. Not the road trip, the other. I got a pen all ready for the Poofy Boys.

I got the first d'Ucccle egg today. It's not bigger than the average, but it is the first and first eggs are usually smaller than later. It's shaped like a guinea egg; pointy. Since I just got the rooster last Saturday... Probably half phoenix as the pullets were free ranging with them, but they have been separate for over a week, but... I'll leave the eggs be and see if the pullet goes broody. Might be interesting to see what comes of this.


----------



## danathome

*I think the little serama cockerel will fit better on OM's shoulder better.*


----------



## robin416

If she saw my mention of it she might bring you a little D egg to give you and idea of how big they are.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> If she saw my mention of it she might bring you a little D egg to give you and idea of how big they are.


*Well, if she does it will go under the nearest hen to be hatched.*


----------



## danathome

*Pablo and RR, the one with egg laying problems, and their new chicks.










She needs a beak trim.

Two more rescued eggs hatched in the incubator so now RR has five serama chicks to care for.*


----------



## Poultry Judge

Nice pic!


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Nice pic!


I would disagree in that it does not show the beauty of the pair. Kimmi was in a hurry. MommyDearest called and wanted her daughter-right now.


----------



## robin416

After all this time I don't think she's in any danger from internal laying. But she is odd. Most that quit laying don't go broody anymore.

That's a sweet little family even they aren't her peeps.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> After all this time I don't think she's in any danger from internal laying. But she is odd. Most that quit laying don't go broody anymore.
> 
> That's a sweet little family even they aren't her peeps.


*I don't think she is done laying. She did lay an egg then the weirdness started. When she weans these chicks I'm betting that she will lay again and all will be normal. And if the weirdness continues, a good foster mom is a good thing to have.*


----------



## danathome

Too much to do, but I'm taking the day to just veg out and relax, but I really need to clean the loft, nest boxes, and band squabs. Oh well, there's always tomorow.
*
Instead I'm bird watching without binoculars. I was curious as to Pablo's reaction to his chicks and he's playing broody hen with the chicks. Cute-some are under him and a couple are pulling his wattles and pecking at his eyes. The goofus just sits there and lets them.*


----------



## robin416

I've seen that behavior with the dads in the past. I'd hold my breath and try not to tell babies, no don't go poking dad in the eyes.


----------



## Overmountain1

Oh!!! I got to meet them all- they’re all so sweet and beautiful! Ah! Ok I’m still reading and catching up, but I just had to say that. Pablo is really something else!! Pictures just cannot do him justice really. He’s stunning!


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Oh!!! I got to meet them all- they’re all so sweet and beautiful! Ah! Ok I’m still reading and catching up, but I just had to say that. Pablo is really something else!! Pictures just cannot do him justice really. He’s stunning!


*Thank you for your kind words. Pablo, I guess, is just not photogenic. *


----------



## Overmountain1

No, I can see that he would not be. He’s his own awkward form of it, I suppose. Hehe. I love him! They are all super sweet, and beautiful too. I really cannot wait to see how these two turn out exactly! Those spots of brown he’s got make me think he just might be a bit calico, so maybe that’ll be a little more pronounced in time. Thoughts? (His short legs are perfect on him too btw- I can’t imagine him any other way!) 

So, I don’t know if you still want a D’Uccle Roo or not; Tiny might end up being too aggressive to stay w Chippy. 
It’s a little odd bc he’s supposed to be the more timid breed as a D’Uccle, and Chip being an OEG— but Chip’s a pacifist. He sticks up for himself well- when he can see it coming. He doesn’t start anything with anyone, but he does admirably usually. His flight capabilities help! Here’s the thing- His other Wattle is now torn, and not quite left a piece not quite hanging off. It’s just as connected as disconnected, and I’m on the fence. I’m afraid it’s just one more spot to get torn again in the future. Poor little buddy- he’s just a year old and he’s all battle scarred already! I feel so bad, if I hadn’t put the boys in w him her still be well not perfect cause he lost a point to the big Rooster but close. 
Speaking of, big rooster needs to find a big flock with big chickens and big free ranging. Im done. Spring fever is not a good look on him.


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> No, I can see that he would not be. He’s his own awkward form of it, I suppose. Hehe. I love him! They are all super sweet, and beautiful too. I really cannot wait to see how these two turn out exactly! Those spots of brown he’s got make me think he just might be a *bit calico*, so maybe that’ll be a little more pronounced in time. Thoughts? (His short legs are perfect on him too btw- I can’t imagine him any other way!)
> 
> So, I don’t know if* you still want* a D’Uccle Roo or not; Tiny might end up being too aggressive to stay w Chippy.
> It’s a little odd bc he’s supposed to be the more timid breed as a D’Uccle, and Chip being an OEG— but Chip’s a pacifist. He sticks up for himself well- when he can see it coming. He doesn’t start anything with anyone, but he does admirably usually. His flight capabilities help! Here’s the thing- His other Wattle is now torn, and not quite left a piece not quite hanging off. It’s just as connected as disconnected, and I’m on the fence. I’m afraid it’s just one more spot to get torn again in the future. Poor little buddy- he’s just a year old and he’s all battle scarred already! I feel so bad, if I hadn’t put the boys in w him her still be well not perfect cause he lost a point to the big Rooster but close.
> Speaking of, big rooster needs to find a big flock with big chickens and big free ranging. Im done. Spring fever is not a good look on him.


*I think it quite likely that Stinker will be a calico splash when he matures, but each serama is different in color and pattern so it's all guesswork as to what any chick will look like when mature.*

*After your, less than relaxing trip, I think I'll bite my lip and not say how much I'd like him.*


----------



## Overmountain1

I would consider overnighting him to you, honestly- it’s just a quick hop from here to Nashville and then on to you... but if you’re totally opposed I won’t bother looking into it- and I know they need a little time to settle out their differences now that the other two are gone, so it may become a non issue- ESPECIALLY once we add all the new pullets. 
I suspect that will keep them busier and more satisfied in general, which may- or may not- help! We are going to start introducing them tomorrow, weather permitting. Cage beside each other tomorrow, and maybe let them all out in the yard later- but that will likely be the following day, or whenever they start ignoring each other mostly. Meh. It’s a process, but it’ll either resolve or not... and if it’s the not, then we can go from there.


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> I would consider overnighting him to you, honestly- it’s just a quick hop from here to Nashville and then on to you... but if you’re totally opposed I won’t bother looking into it- and I know they need a little time to settle out their differences now that the other two are gone, so it may become a non issue- ESPECIALLY once we add all the new pullets.
> I suspect that will keep them busier and more satisfied in general, which may- or may not- help! We are going to start introducing them tomorrow, weather permitting. Cage beside each other tomorrow, and maybe let them all out in the yard later- but that will likely be the following day, or whenever they start ignoring each other mostly. Meh. It’s a process, but it’ll either resolve or not... and if it’s the not, then we can go from there.





Overmountain1 said:


> I would consider overnighting him to you, honestly- it’s just a quick hop from here to Nashville and then on to you... but if you’re totally opposed I won’t bother looking into it- and I know they need a little time to settle out their differences now that the other two are gone, so it may become a non issue- ESPECIALLY once we add all the new pullets.
> I suspect that will keep them busier and more satisfied in general, which may- or may not- help! We are going to start introducing them tomorrow, weather permitting. Cage beside each other tomorrow, and maybe let them all out in the yard later- but that will likely be the following day, or whenever they start ignoring each other mostly. Meh. It’s a process, but it’ll either resolve or not... and if it’s the not, then we can go from there.


*I am very much opposed to shipping live birds; too much can go wrong-even overnight and especially now that the postal systems are far from their best. I am happy with my Mille Fluer. Maybe... someday we can come that way. It's also likely that all will resolve itself among your birds.*


----------



## Overmountain1

That is ultimately what we hope for, just some peace... and if not peace then mostly tacit agreement to go along to get along would be fine too!  That is best outcome. I know we could try to get another coop and separate them all out, which we will be doing for the Serama for sure. Tiny IS nicknamed the cobra chicken for a reason.....


----------



## danathome

*Apparently my mind is going wacko. I just got done feeding the birds. The hen with the dummy eggs HAD ANOTHER CHICK following her. I looked in every nest; no empty shell anywhere; all eggs accounted for; no hidden nest. I have no idea how only that it's a color I seldom get and very much sought after by me and my buyers.*


----------



## robin416

Have you checked the dummy eggs? Or are they obviously dummy eggs?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Have you checked the dummy eggs? Or are they obviously dummy eggs?


*Obvious dummies. Also obvious that I am not remembering right. It's been a mad house around here for the last couple days-dogs snapping and growling at each other when they've always been good together-the white drakes beating up the red phoenix every time he gets too close-the kids chasing chickens to make them run-turkey hen trying to take over a broody nest-----At least the sun is kind of shining.

Potato planting time!!*


----------



## robin416

This is bad, I'm laughing. 

Spring is a challenging time. Especially for the humans.


----------



## danathome

*Glad to have made you laugh but I'm not laughing...yet.*


----------



## danathome

*Newest mom. Rather upsetting to see her head plucked like this. Snow is hard on the hens; a very unserama trait. Wisp is my smallest hen-just 8 ounces.








*


----------



## danathome

*I rather think Snow is going to be replaced by Sei in another month.*


----------



## Overmountain1

I suppose if he’s gonna be a feather plucker like that it wouldn’t hurt things- and Sei is a sweet fella. 
I hope all yours get back to normal ish soon! Hold on, it’ll be a bumpy ride first I believe! 
And if you can’t laugh about the downs.... well I don’t know where I was going with that. But it’s ok to just let go and laugh about it- try thinking of it from someone else’s perspective? Heck idk! But it’s a bit amusing how they always manage to go nuts at the same time. Without fail.


----------



## danathome

*I think Snow falls more in the issue of over-breeding rather than plucker. Kind of amounts to the same thing with the hen's heads.*


----------



## robin416

Is she the one on the dummy eggs?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Is she the one on the dummy eggs?


Wisp is the one that was on dummy eggs and now in the kitchen with the two chicks. Snow is Snowflake who is pulling head feathers when mating. The other hens show similar heads but not nearly as bad.


----------



## danathome

*We started naming birds long ago so that when Kimmi and I talk about the birds we both know what the other is talking about.*


----------



## robin416

I thought you already named the birds? Or was that just the ones that were top of your list? 

I'm glad she gets to raise a couple of peeps. Now the question is, where did those two come from?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> I thought you already named the birds? Or was that just the ones that were top of your list?
> 
> I'm glad she gets to raise a couple of peeps. Now the question is, where did those two come from?





robin416 said:


> I thought you already named the birds? Or was that just the ones that were top of your list?
> 
> I'm glad she gets to raise a couple of peeps. Now the question is, where did those two come from?


*We've always named those we planned on keeping-not those that were to be sold. As to the two chicks-a staggered hatch I fogot about and where from, I have no idea.*


----------



## robin416

LOL Maybe you need a log right inside the back door so you can record who's doing what.

I was the same way with mine. Although Hamburg Girl never got a true name.


----------



## Overmountain1

Why that sounds like a true name to me!! If we can name one Third Wheel, I think Hamburg Girl is just fine. We still have a couple of crabs we never named- at first bc we couldn’t tell them apart, and later we lost their 3 friends, and we got shy about naming them and being more attached. Wouldn’t you know the 3 we did name were the ones that went? So, yes. Absolutely a name. 

Edit- we have had them for almost 2 years now, and still. And I say I will, but I don’t. Meh. Oh- and a name that we gave one other, officially, was Big E because he was the biggest E. (What is commonly used to refer to an Ecuadorian crab.) Now that is a straight comparison, except you did have her a good many years more of course. I’m rambling now. Shut it woman.


----------



## robin416

It's just it was too much name. A name she had no chance of learning. They do learn their names just in case you haven't seen it yet with yours. It's kind of cute when you say a name and a head pops up and looks at you. 

Still feel hexed about naming your little ones? They've got deluxe digs these days, get the best of the best. What's not to like about their new home?


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> *Obvious dummies. Also obvious that I am not remembering right. It's been a mad house around here for the last couple days-dogs snapping and growling at each other when they've always been good together-the white drakes beating up the red phoenix every time he gets too close-the kids chasing chickens to make them run-turkey hen trying to take over a broody nest-----At least the sun is kind of shining.
> 
> Potato planting time!!*


Spring!!!


----------



## Overmountain1

Thanks Robin. That does make me feel better. 
We have talked about it so many times but I guess the biggest thing is just that nothing has stuck.  
Yep- all of our chickens respond to their names ——-when they feel like it. Ha! Some are more immediate to follow commands too- little girls come when called about half the time now, specifically, and without treats, just lovins. Little rocket chickens, those two.....Tiny listens to a few little things, Chip too. Big girls know names but prob about it. TickTock will- would, I assume still does- stop and wait for you to pick him up if you call him by name and say you’re gonna get him. Hahaha what does that sound like it says about us “muahaha I’m gonna get you!!!”  Ok I’m goofy tonight I better log off!  Have a good nite y’all!


----------



## robin416

You know I love the crabs and how you've got them all set up. Learning about them was a treat for me.

I can tell you quail only respond to food. They get hand rearing formula in the morning. Several come zooming out and a couple are in the dish before I remove my hand. Other than treats they want nothing to do with me. 

I've never seen a Guinea respond to it's name. I don't think they stop long enough to listen.


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> You know I love the crabs and how you've got them all set up. Learning about them was a treat for me.
> 
> I can tell you quail only respond to food. They get hand rearing formula in the morning. Several come zooming out and a couple are in the dish before I remove my hand. Other than treats they want nothing to do with me.
> 
> I've never seen a Guinea respond to it's name. I don't think they stop long enough to listen.


Agreed!


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Thanks Robin. That does make me feel better.
> We have talked about it so many times but I guess the biggest thing is just that nothing has stuck.
> Yep- all of our chickens respond to their names ——-when they feel like it. Ha! Some are more immediate to follow commands too- little girls come when called about half the time now, specifically, and without treats, just lovins. Little rocket chickens, those two.....Tiny listens to a few little things, Chip too. Big girls know names but prob about it. *TickTock will- would, I assume still does- stop and wait for you to pick him up* if you call him by name and say you’re gonna get him. Hahaha what does that sound like it says about us “muahaha I’m gonna get you!!!”  Ok I’m goofy tonight I better log off!  Have a good nite y’all!


*They both do; stand still until I pick them up.*


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> You know I love the crabs and how you've got them all set up. Learning about them was a treat for me.
> 
> I can tell you quail only respond to food. They get hand rearing formula in the morning. Several come zooming out and a couple are in the dish before I remove my hand. Other than treats they want nothing to do with me.
> 
> I've never seen a Guinea respond to it's name. I don't think they stop long enough to listen.


*I used to have cortunix quail. Fun to watch and the chicks sure were cute. I lost them to a severe flooding day and have never wanted to replace them. Running on 100% instinct limits them as a pet. Guineas I can't tremember, but don't doubt you for a second.*


----------



## robin416

Guineas will come as a group when I call "birds" but that's the extent of them coming to a name. 

I don't know why but I really like the quail. They are so far removed from what chickens are that it makes no sense other than they're cute and some of the stuff they do is fun to watch. Like when the flock acts like popcorn and hop up all over the pen.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Guineas will come as a group when I call "birds" but that's the extent of them coming to a name.
> 
> I don't know why but I really like the quail. They are so far removed from what chickens are that it makes no sense other than they're cute and some of the stuff they do is fun to watch. Like when the flock acts like popcorn and hop up all over the pen.





robin416 said:


> Guineas will come as a group when I call "birds" but that's the extent of them coming to a name.
> 
> I don't know why but I really like the quail. They are so far removed from what chickens are that it makes no sense other than they're cute and some of the stuff they do is fun to watch. Like when the flock acts like popcorn and hop up all over the pen.


*How many do you have? The last pair of Japanese cortunix I had actually brooded and raised chicks twice. They had been raised by a serama hen. I wish I still had the pictures so I could prove it. When I've posted this in the past on BYC people do not believe it or are very skeptical.*


----------



## robin416

I've only got 8 now. Been thinking about getting more. Which is just nuts.

From what the friend I got them from told me, on rare occasions one will go broody so it's not all in your head.


----------



## danathome

*I've had both button and cortunix quail. Both species nested, but conditions were rather exact. The buttons my science class raised in the classroom. The students were always excited when new chicks hatched under the quail hens.*


----------



## robin416

At this point, I'm glad none of mine went broody. I don't need the extra unless I choose to have them.

Mine are ripping into their lettuce treat right now. So are the Guineas.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> At this point, I'm glad none of mine went broody. I don't need the extra unless I choose to have them.
> 
> Mine are ripping into their lettuce treat right now. So are the Guineas.





robin416 said:


> At this point, I'm glad none of mine went broody. don't need the extra unless I choose to have them.
> 
> Mine are ripping into their lettuce treat right now. So are the Guineas.


*They won't ever go broody with the eggs being collected and it is doubtful, to the extreme, that one would go broody with eight quail being present.*


----------



## robin416

I don't collect the eggs. They lay them wherever they decide to. And in the shavings and hay it's like an Easter egg hunt looking for them.


----------



## danathome

They're still not likely to brood in a group setting----unless they have lots of room. And then, just maybe.


----------



## robin416

Which is fine by me. I don't need to be finding homes for unwanted hatchlings.


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> I've only got 8 now. Been thinking about getting more. Which is just nuts.
> 
> From what the friend I got them from told me, on rare occasions one will go broody so it's not all in your head.


I forgot about the popcorn behavior, makes me smile!


----------



## robin416

It's a hoot to watch. It's so joyful looking when they do it.


----------



## danathome

*Serama hatching tonight-9 eggs and 3 have hatched so far- I'm hoping all 9 hatch successfully. The hen laid too many eggs to cover so 3 were in the incubator and it's those three that have hatched-eggs under the hen are pipped. YEAH new incubator-it works!!*


----------



## Overmountain1

It won’t let me ‘like’ the post a hundred times....


----------



## robin416

I hope there isn't going to be a test. I've lost track already of who's doing what.


----------



## danathome

*7 chicks hatched. No test as I've last track too.

Next in line are the call duck eggs followed by phoenix then turkey.*


----------



## robin416

LOL Now that is a little scary.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> LOL Now that is a little scary.


*There's another serama that went broody yesterday. And there is a cochin brooding. I'm sure there will soon be more. Betty has gone broody. There's bound to be more soon.*


----------



## robin416

Son of a gun. I do remember those days when It seemed like every one of my female Silkies went broody at the same time. I had a lot of female Silkies.


----------



## danathome

*Sei as an adult. Definitely Snow's son as Sei has no traditional hackle feathers just like Snow.










The color still does not come through right; caramel with a blue underlay.*


----------



## robin416

Dang, his comb is almost as big as he is. He's a lovely boy. 

I wonder what it would take to have his true color come through in a pic. He sounds like what they were calling porcelain Silkies, except their heads were blue and the body light cream to dark cream.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> *Sei as an adult. Definitely Snow's son as Sei has no traditional hackle feathers just like Snow.
> 
> 
> View attachment 40514
> 
> The color still does not come through right; caramel with a blue underlay.*


Interesting!


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Dang, his comb is almost as big as he is. He's a lovely boy.
> 
> I wonder what it would take to have his true color come through in a pic. He sounds like what they were calling porcelain Silkies, except their heads were blue and the body light cream to dark cream.


*Yes, he has the large comb of his father too. One of these days when it's warm again I'll have Kimmi take his picture outside under natural light. Perhaps the true colors will show.*


----------



## danathome

*I do wish Sei had the shape of OM's Sammy, the found rooster.*


----------



## robin416

Truthfully, I prefer Sei's look. I just don't like the over exaggeration of the heat and tail touching or nearly touching.


----------



## danathome

*There does get to a point I do not like either. the picture shows the type. To me it is uuugggggllllyyyyyy and deformed in appearance. With chickens there's something for about everyone who likes poultry.










From Google images.*


----------



## robin416

Those birds can't even breed. There were some that took Silkies to that extreme and had to so artificial insemination.


----------



## Overmountain1

See that just doesn’t hardly seem humane; there’s a reason they are unable to breed- nature says ENOUGH! And no offense to anyone who does raise them, it’s just not my preference either! 

Dan I am hoping with a little time and some hens to service we can breed Sammy into a really nice line with Chappie and his girl Alarma’s offspring. Alarma is going to be extra tiny I think. I love it- we call her ‘pidgey’ bc she is so regular-bird-like!


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> See that just doesn’t hardly seem humane; there’s a reason they are unable to breed- nature says ENOUGH! And no offense to anyone who does raise them, it’s just not my preference either!
> 
> Dan I am hoping with a little time and some hens to service we can breed Sammy into a really nice line with Chappie and his girl Alarma’s offspring. Alarma is going to be extra tiny I think. I love it- we call her ‘pidgey’ bc she is so regular-bird-like!


*Very extreme is not to my liking either. Different yes-like Sammy-other than size I consider him perfect. OM-it would work well. Breed Sammy to a smaller hen and pick the smaller offspring for your next generation. With Sammy's good looks and the size of mine I predict you could have a gorgeous serama flock in a few years.*

*Turkeys are another extreme. Some varieties are so big they can't breed naturally and artificial insemination has to be used. That was the summer job of one of the teachers I worked with; gathering then inseminating the hen turkeys-not a job I'd want-though I know how in case I ever have need of the knowledge.*


----------



## Overmountain1

Yay! I was hoping that will end up being a good genetic pairing in the end. Sammy is generally more upright than I usually (aesthetically) like. However, because he does NOT have the big barrel chest or have his head pushed backward to nearly horizontal, and of course he has his beautiful coloring- I really love his looks! He’s kind of another squeaky abnormally loud crowing one, but that’s ok.  It’s all grown on me. (Good thing, hey?)


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Yay! I was hoping that will end up being a good genetic pairing in the end. Sammy is generally more upright than I usually (aesthetically) like. However, because he does NOT have the big barrel chest or have his head pushed backward to nearly horizontal, and of course he has his beautiful coloring- I really love his looks! He’s kind of another squeaky abnormally loud crowing one, but that’s ok.  It’s all grown on me. (Good thing, hey?)


To my way of thinking your Sammy is far better than those show quality birds in looks.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> *Very extreme is not to my liking either. Different yes-like Sammy-other than size I consider him perfect. OM-it would work well. Breed Sammy to a smaller hen and pick the smaller offspring for your next generation. With Sammy's good looks and the size of mine I predict you could have a gorgeous serama flock in a few years.
> 
> Turkeys are another extreme. Some varieties are so big they can't breed naturally and artificial insemination has to be used. That was the summer job of one of the teachers I worked with; gathering then inseminating the hen turkeys-not a job I'd want-though I know how in case I ever have need of the knowledge.*


That's what happened when they developed the broad breasted turkey in this country. On a modern commercial turkey farm, the year is divided into insemination, feeding and meat prep.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Overmountain1 said:


> See that just doesn’t hardly seem humane; there’s a reason they are unable to breed- nature says ENOUGH! And no offense to anyone who does raise them, it’s just not my preference either!
> 
> Dan I am hoping with a little time and some hens to service we can breed Sammy into a really nice line with Chappie and his girl Alarma’s offspring. Alarma is going to be extra tiny I think. I love it- we call her ‘pidgey’ bc she is so regular-bird-like!


When nature is in charge the birds are bred to fit their environmental niche with characteristics which allow them to best thrive wherever they are. Human kind has influenced some strange birds throughout history.


----------



## Overmountain1

Amen! Human kind has influenced some strange humans too!


----------



## Poultry Judge

Overmountain1 said:


> Amen! Human kind has influenced some strange humans too!


Excellent point!!!


----------



## robin416

Overmountain1 said:


> Amen! Human kind has influenced some strange humans too!


Had to laugh at that one.


----------



## danathome

*Supposed to possibly freeze for the next two nights-my poor garden.*


----------



## Overmountain1

danathome said:


> *Supposed to possibly freeze for the next two nights-my poor garden.*


If you spread a good tarp or something over it, they _might_ stay above freezing under the tarp with the ground temps being a bit warmer already.... fingers crossed for you! I’ve always heard don’t plant before May 10 here.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> *Supposed to possibly freeze for the next two nights-my poor garden.*


Same here, crazy weather.


----------



## robin416

When I lived in the N. GA mountains and pushed things too far I had straw I covered my plants with. It made for great mulch at the end of the growing season.


----------



## danathome

*Just about everything here is green, growing, blooming, and setting fruit. I can't cover everything so it's pick and choose.
Those that were planted in the last three days will be dug up and moved to the greenhouse.

OM-how's the baby? I haven't been online. had to go for my glasses and by time I got home pain took over...*


----------



## danathome

*The serama hen I thought to be laying internally has weaned her chicks and laid her first egg yesterday; an egg with no shell. Like last time, I'm putting a normal egg in the nest each time the hen "lays". She is on the nest right now and I've been listening to the egg call for, what seems, hours. Hopefully there will be a normal egg this time. It would appear that egg laying with this hen will always be abnormal, so she will be a foster mom for as long as she lays.*


----------



## robin416

Did she lay normally before this mystery with her started?


----------



## Overmountain1

Oh oddness! I hope her system sorts itself out one way or the other. 

Today is another good day- she is eating good atmgain, although she doesn’t want to eat regular chicken feed yet, the spoiled brat.  we upgraded her ‘nest’ box, added some plushy stuffing under the towel where she rests so her bony breastbone isn’t pressing against the ground. She is so thin it causes her to have to lean to one side too, poor baby. Also, about half the time she makes a BM she promptly falls back into it. If I’m not right there that means it gets rubbed in really good! Ugh. Aside from that she’s just about gotten standing again. She was just about ready for nap time here. 

She likes to be covered up when she naps, makes sense to me! She’s pretty vulnerable.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Did she lay normally before this mystery with her started?


That I do not know. She did brood a few times out there. With any hen that has room I add to the clutch, I only know of the problem because she is in the house right by my coffee spot. The hen is now off the nest and no new egg so I put one in the nest. The idea is to get those hormones going so she goes broody as quick as possible.


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Oh oddness! I hope her system sorts itself out one way or the other.
> 
> Today is another good day- she is eating good atmgain, although she doesn’t want to eat regular chicken feed yet, the spoiled brat.  we upgraded her ‘nest’ box, added some plushy stuffing under the towel where she rests so her bony breastbone isn’t pressing against the ground. She is so thin it causes her to have to lean to one side too, poor baby. Also, about half the time she makes a BM she promptly falls back into it. If I’m not right there that means it gets rubbed in really good! Ugh. Aside from that she’s just about gotten standing again. She was just about ready for nap time here.
> 
> She likes to be covered up when she naps, makes sense to me! She’s pretty vulnerable.


*Since she has improved do what you did yesterday and perhaps she will continue an upward climb.*


----------



## robin416

Try a little wet food with some blueberries or some sort of sweet fruit. It might get her eating a bit more. 

Dan, If she was internally laying she'd be either really sick or dead by now. Your girl is about the most unusual bird I've ever read when it come sto not laying.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Try a little wet food with some blueberries or some sort of sweet fruit. It might get her eating a bit more.
> 
> Dan, If she was internally laying she'd be either really sick or dead by now. Your girl is about the most unusual bird I've ever read when it come sto not laying.


*Not necessarily, a hen's body will absorb such eggs. It's only when egg production is faster than the absorption rate does the bird get sick. With RR, she tries to develop six or so eggs and then broods. A precious few eggs do pass so it is possible. And yes, she is most unusual.*


----------



## Overmountain1

Chappie the partially frizzled, genetically interesting Serama!  
You can really see it coming out more in that ring of feathers now; at least for now it is concentrated from a circle around his neck- like a special necklace! Lol


----------



## danathome

*He certainly is a most unusual serama.*


----------



## danathome

*I have a frizzle hen where the feathers stand out without the curling.*


----------



## Overmountain1

He’s satiny soft all over- not silkied of course, but not quite regular hard edge too. He’s neat. His comb looks like fire from the side, it’s neat too. We love him so much.


----------



## robin416

Is he even supposed to have feathers like that if he's not full frizzle?


----------



## Poultry Judge

Interesting feathering.


----------



## danathome

*His feathering backs my thoughts that there is more to feathering the a pair of genes, that there are modifying genes that work with the main gene pair to create feathering. So, yes, I would say he is PART frizzle, having the modifying genes, but not the main genotype.*


----------



## Overmountain1

Agreed. Either that or he’s a chimera of some sort, which would be even less likely.

Edit to add- Dan, you really gave us the most unusual of your genetics en masse!


----------



## Overmountain1

robin416 said:


> Is he even supposed to have feathers like that if he's not full frizzle?


As I’m supposed to understand it, not really.... but he clearly DOES have them; it’s undeniable the longer they get!


----------



## danathome

*According to many frizzle fanatics he doesn't exist. I've posted about similar birds on BYC and there is all kinds of explanations from poor diet to being dirty, but certainly not a frizzle like that.*


----------



## Overmountain1

danathome said:


> *According to many frizzle fanatics he doesn't exist. I've posted about similar birds on BYC and there is all kinds of explanations from poor diet to being dirty, but certainly not a frizzle like that.*


I’m sure it’s easiest to look at it in terms of has or doesn’t have gene x and that is that, and it takes two copies to make it express etc etc. that is simplest for sure. 
But truly.... there are PLENTY of instances where a carrier of a gene has just a touch of that gene that is expressed somehow- I am one example actually. I carry an eye disorder, and have some mild symptoms, while either of my boys may have it as it is male expressed disease only. My wording isn’t working good this morning but you get my meaning. I just mean that I can’t see why that couldn’t be a really simple explanation.... it will take more genetic testing to determine exactly how that works out, and that’s time consuming and expensive. Best guess is trial and error through breeding, watch and learn! Take that BYC! 

(Jk, jk!!)


----------



## danathome

*RR has gone broody again after laying 2 eggs with no shell and 7 noneggs. She is now brooding 5 eggs that I gave her to replace her own.

My porcelain d"Uccle has gone broody--finally.*


----------



## robin416

She is the most bizarre bird. To have these laying issues and yet be healthy. 

Does this mean there's going to be little D's this month?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> She is the most bizarre bird. To have these laying issues and yet be healthy.
> *Agreed.*
> Does this mean there's going to be little D's this month?


*Yes; I hope. I have three that hatched 3 weeks ago and another clutch that was to hatch this week, but as bad luck would have it, the nest box came loose on the wall and fell.*


----------



## robin416

For Pete's sake. Sometimes I think if you didn't have bad luck you wouldn't have any at all.


----------



## danathome

*So it seems some days. *


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> *So it seems some days. *


Dan always has a lot of irons in the fire.


----------



## robin416

Poultry Judge said:


> Dan always has a lot of irons in the fire.


Is that the pot calling the kettle?


----------



## danathome

95% of my "bad" luck has to do with storms and rains that last all day, days at a time-a bad situation with mixed flocks being forced in close quarters for extended periods. Another bad storm and lot more... Incubator went off again for the third time. One turkey has deserted her nest and the call eggs were scattered this morning and ruined. Everyone and everything is done in with this weather. So, just grin and bear it; enjoy the successes that do occur. I'm afraid to look in the serama coop to see f the scheduled chicks hatched. Right now all seems hopeless. Wait until the weather straightens out and start again, guess.


----------



## robin416

Are you certain the call eggs are done? You saw what happened with the guy with Rouen eggs that got baked for 12 hours yet the majority survived.


----------



## danathome

*No, not positive, but does not look good. Those that weren't broken I gave to a bantam whos eggs were ruined by the storm. A few of the eggs were already under another bantam and a couple were still in the nest, so if my luck changes, maybe. Not much hope for the incubator. It's been off three times in four days; several hours at a time. I should not complain, a tree smashed through the neighbors house late yesterday and they were found this morning; one dead and the other taken away by ambulance. Poor souls laid there all night before they received help. I'll not complain anymore about the storms.*


----------



## robin416

OMG, that's awful. We're pretty tight here on our road. When we have stuff like that everyone is checking on everyone else. 

Don't give up on the bator. Yes, they cooled down but that doesn't mean they're lost.


----------



## danathome

*Robin and PJ- I usually stay logged in, but with the weather I had to log in just now. It took four tries to get past the security check. Security check are fine, but the pictures need to be clear enough to see what they are-what a pain!*
_*
Our neighborhood is not friendly; it's every man/woman for themselves, and we HAVE tried. We have one neighbor that's friendly up the road.

The eggs are in the incubator still and I'll candle tonight to see if there are any survivors; the same with the call eggs though they will probably be inconclusive as brooding just started a couple days ago.
*_
*Three serama chicks hatched in the night-a nice surprise.*


----------



## robin416

Congrats on the new baby Seramas. 

That is one of the big reasons I left TN. After 8 years there and no one had the time for us. It's so much different here. 

I'll say something to the admin. They really messed some stuff up.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Congrats on the new baby Seramas.
> 
> That is one of the big reasons I left TN. After 8 years there and no one had the time for us. It's so much different here.
> 
> *I'll say something to the admin. They really messed some stuff up.*


*Please do as it was very frustrating. Even with Kimmi's help, we could not accurately pick the right pictures. Some were showing small parts of motorcycles and I was to pick bicycles.*


----------



## robin416

Those captchas can be a royal pain in the behind. I have to do an extra step and sometimes it refuses to accept it. 

Not sure I'm supposed to say this or not but the company that owns the forum is very sensitive about being hacked and have taken multiple steps to protect the forum and the members posting here. Unfortunately that makes it challenging for the members at times too.


----------



## danathome

Even so, the pictures need to be recognizable. There were a few pictures that neither of us recognized as anything; just a hodgepodge of shapes that could have been a boat, life raft, etc.


----------



## robin416

Trust me, I have problems with it too. I would like it to just ask if I'm a robot or not. That one is easy.

Here is what the admin said: This also helps if he is using Chrome for a browser. There is a plugin called "Privacy Pass" It will make it so you only need to do the captcha once. Chrome also has a bunch of excellent plugins to help with folks who have visual impairments where you can adjust sizes of pages, the color and the contrast. It then saves it for only specific sites.

That might be a solution for you on the hard to read part of the forum if you can find the right plugin. And are using Chrome.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Trust me, I have problems with it too. I would like it to just ask if I'm a robot or not. That one is easy.
> 
> Here is what the admin said: This also helps if he is using Chrome for a browser. There is a plugin called "Privacy Pass" It will make it so you only need to do the captcha once. Chrome also has a bunch of excellent plugins to help with folks who have visual impairments where you can adjust sizes of pages, the color and the contrast. It then saves it for only specific sites.
> 
> That might be a solution for you on the hard to read part of the forum if you can find the right plugin. And are using Chrome.





robin416 said:


> Trust me, I have problems with it too. I would like it to just ask if I'm a robot or not. That one is easy.
> 
> Here is what the admin said: This also helps if he is using Chrome for a browser. There is a plugin called "Privacy Pass" It will make it so you only need to do the captcha once. Chrome also has a bunch of excellent plugins to help with folks who have visual impairments where you can adjust sizes of pages, the color and the contrast. It then saves it for only specific sites.
> 
> That might be a solution for you on the hard to read part of the forum if you can find the right plugin. And are using Chrome.


*Perhaps I will feel more like checking into things another time. I use chrome. Tomorrow, right now I need 40 winks after the pups are fed and checked. Miss Lilli is due on Monday, but the ways she's acting, it's going to be soon, possibly tonight. Lilli has always had an easy time delivering but still...I am concerned.*

*When I turned the incubator eggs, I candled the five most important. No veins had broken down and the call egg is beginning to internally pip. Kimmi saw the incubator off but thought it was empty so we know it was off 8+ hours; hardly seems credible that the eggs would still be viable-I must be seeing things.*


----------



## robin416

Not necessarily. You see the glass half empty on this with the eggs. I see it half full. 

I'll look around later to see if I can find what the admin was talking about.


----------



## robin416

This might be one of those he's talking about: AlphaText - Make text readable!


----------



## danathome

*No rest for the wicked. I had forgot I had made an appointment for a woman to come see the serama. I warned her I had many tame birds and within a few minutes she was surrounded by phoenix, tom turkey, ducks, and then the pigeon came soaring in to land on her shoulders and head. She was delighted and I made a good sale.*

*Robin and PJ and anyone else-The lady wanted to buy one of the hand fed pigeons and I refused to sell but said I'd hand feed her one. I could use some input as to price. As pigeons go they are nothing special, selling for about $5 each normally. But hand fed... I know your not into pigeons but still you'd have an idea about what they're worth. Hand feeding is quite a bit of work; three feedings a day for at least three weeks. What do you think they'd be worth? Any input would be appreciated.*


----------



## robin416

I was going to ask if you had a good nap. I guess you were making money instead.

Please don't ask me. I have no clue. I know the worth of show chickens and guineas. Beyond that I have no clue.


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> *No rest for the wicked. I had forgot I had made an appointment for a woman to come see the serama. I warned her I had many tame birds and within a few minutes she was surrounded by phoenix, tom turkey, ducks, and then the pigeon came soaring in to land on her shoulders and head. She was delighted and I made a good sale.
> 
> Robin and PJ and anyone else-The lady wanted to buy one of the hand fed pigeons and I refused to sell but said I'd hand feed her one. I could use some input as to price. As pigeons go they are nothing special, selling for about $5 each normally. But hand fed... I know your not into pigeons but still you'd have an idea about what they're worth. Hand feeding is quite a bit of work; three feedings a day for at least three weeks. What do you think they'd be worth? Any input would be appreciated.*


That's an interesting question Dan. If you are offering a specialty bird type that no one else in your area is breeding/raising/ hand feeding, which you are, and that lady wants to keep it as a pet and is a responsible bird lover, then I would judge it to be a premium bird. I have no idea regarding price, taking into account your time an labor. Thirty dollars perhaps. It would seem more humane, to me, if you could sell her a pair, say fifty or fifty-five dollars. Some of my birds are priced above market price for a number of reasons, I guarantee my stock, I have some rare birds that are well documented, some are ridiculously tame because they are hand fed, and most importantly, they need to go to good homes.


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> That's an interesting question Dan. If you are offering a specialty bird type that no one else in your area is breeding/raising/ hand feeding, which you are, and that lady wants to keep it as a pet and is a responsible bird lover, then I would judge it to be a premium bird. I have no idea regarding price, taking into account your time an labor. Thirty dollars perhaps. It would seem more humane, to me, if you could sell her a pair, say fifty or fifty-five dollars. Some of my birds are priced above market price for a number of reasons, I guarantee my stock, I have some rare birds that are well documented, some are ridiculously tame because they are hand fed, and most importantly, they need to go to good homes.


*Thank you PJ. Your thoughts are mine too. One bird would do well if handled on a regular basis, but that often does not happen as time goes by. Yes, I'd rather sell them in twos; not necessarily a male/female pair. In pigeons and doves, same sex pairs do well..some to the point of fostering eggs and raising the squabs.*


----------



## Overmountain1

Update on the rescued chicken Sammy. (Ok so- he. Is. The BEST. Rooster. 

Yeah. I said it. Sammy wins the best rooster award. We have also determined he was kept almost entirely caged prior to us, given his odd behaviors and his ease of just going straight home and wanting to go back before very long sometimes, and a few other odd things. His beak for one was overgrown to start but he has worked it down himself- we gave him the opportunity and he has gladly taken it. He doesn’t peck anyone, just grabs pullets and makes em squawk sometimes.... not often though honestly. He’s an absolute gentleman. 
I brought him a big handful of greens yesterday morning, and placed them on the far side from the common wall between them. Went over to grab a bunch more for the girls but. By the time I turned back around he had snagged the main portion of HIS greens and brought them allll over to share. It’s very sweet.  
And the little stinker adores attention and while he’s too big technically for Serama showings, he will be a positively excellent showing for Tristan otherwise. He’s a dream guys. Someone may have even raised him with showing in mind but he grew larger than expected. He IS gorgeous. 

































All the greens on his side are his doings.


----------



## robin416

You ended up with a real gem of a bird. Even if he is too large for the breed that personality is hard to not fall in love with.


----------



## danathome

He's a beauty for sure!


----------



## Overmountain1

robin416 said:


> You ended up with a real gem of a bird. Even if he is too large for the breed that personality is hard to not fall in love with.


Bingo. We are all floored by him. And now he has taken to me as well. Hubbs went to take him from me for a visit and Sammy about fell off my arm trying to herd him away from me!  Goofball. He will just sit and cuddle for an hour- we timed it this eve- before getting fidgety. Not wanting down just kinda internally squirmy lol. 

A gem is the truth. We cannot fathom how anyone let him go- unless they never bothered to know him. It’s the only explanation. Love his tiny heart and bay red eyes.


----------



## robin416

Most show bird breeders don't get as attached as we do. They don't see that part of the personalities. 

There are other gems in your flock too. The hubs who seems to be as interested in them as you are and of course Tristan (?). Just so you know I'm not the best with names.


----------



## Overmountain1

Well, you did great, so yeah! Hahaha repetition has its uses I suppose. (By me I mean. Ha!) 

I do feel like we really struck some pretty good gold with our flock out of the gate, and I cannot complain- we love them all, the big weirdos! Maybe even especially the biggest weirdos! What can I say? It’s charming.


----------



## Poultry Judge

All the orphans and oddballs always end up being the most cherished in my flock. It seems over the years that people almost always talk me out of my show birds, and now I don't show anymore anyway.


----------



## Overmountain1

Well, to a degree, they are all just chickens. Or they are until they pick up some weird habit or quirk, and then they have your attention, and so thus they become a favorite by default. Unless they’re mean. Tiny and Chip are jockeying for position a bit again- I think Sammys presence is precipitating this.... but mainly they totally ignore him. He’s interested in them but doesn’t seem to mind. 

Oh! We did bring tiny Alarma and Hensley out with Sammy too- he was sooo interested in herding them over w the others. Cute but ALARMa freaked out of course. She’s ridiculously small, [mention]danathome [/mention] ! Let me get pics of her again today but she’s staying extra teeny! 
As an aside bc I saw it- you can see why Susies feather shape has kept us guessing for a while- it LOOKS pointy- but it’s not ACTUALLY bc of the tiny fringe at the edges. Odd! (Neck feathers)


----------



## danathome

*Tiny she is but for a serama not ridiculously small for her age. There are some serama no taller than a coke can at maturity.*


----------



## Overmountain1

danathome said:


> *Tiny she is but for a serama not ridiculously small for her age. There are some serama no taller than a coke can at maturity.*


That just might end up being her Dan- her feathers grow but she has mostly stopped again - she probably has one more good growth spurt before she’s done and she’s NOT as tall as a Coke can yet, I just looked over at one and- nope. Love her tiny heart!

Unless you mean tail feathers held straight up, but they’re still not that tall- THAT would be tiny. Her tail MIGHT be even w one now, if not quite.


----------



## Overmountain1

Also, this happens. She melts every time the sunlight hits her. Maybe we can make it into a trick....


----------



## Poultry Judge

Overmountain1 said:


> Also, this happens. She melts every time the sunlight hits her. Maybe we can make it into a trick....


Oh no melted chicken!


----------



## Overmountain1

Wouldn’t it be a cute trick if I could teach her though?


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## danathome

*So very cool.*


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## Overmountain1

Both the Serama are so fun- they’re really so different from the other chickens! Ok all 3, if I include Sammy here too, and we know how I feel about my chicken Sammy!  
But truly, they do have so much personality and truly enjoy the companionship of their people, far more than any of our others do. It is clear what they have been bred for! I just think that is neat and needed to be said too.


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Both the Serama are so fun- they’re really so different from the other chickens! Ok all 3, if I include Sammy here too, and we know how I feel about my chicken Sammy!
> But truly, they do have so much personality and truly enjoy the companionship of their people, far more than any of our others do. It is clear what they have been bred for! I just think that is neat and needed to be said too.


*Told you so! Many years in the making and not all serama are what mine are.*


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> *Told you so! Many years in the making and not all serama are what mine are.*


Dan is very much one hundred percent right about that! Your birds are tame for a reason. Competitive birds in Japan, I bet not so tame,


----------



## danathome

*Fraz, all grown up and ready for a hen. Isn't he the most beautiful bird ever??









*


----------



## Overmountain1

He IS!! He’s just super specially unique!  

I do know how fortunate I am to have the two I do from where they are from. Chappie is a bit of a- well is he related to Fraz? How close? I’m curious, he has this funny thing he does where he crows to one side- severely! It’s lovably adorable, he’s just special too- plus his oddball frizzled feathering ring. Idk. And he toots when he talks. It’s cute. I really need to video that too- sorry thinking out loud! Anyway- just curious!


----------



## robin416

LOL I'm picturing your fingers trying to frantically keep up with your brain as the thoughts come spilling out.


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> *He IS!! He’s just super specially unique! *
> 
> I do know how fortunate I am to have the two I do from where they are from. Chappie is a bit of a- well is he related to Fraz? How close? I’m curious, he has this funny thing he does where he crows to one side- severely! It’s lovably adorable, he’s just special too- plus his oddball frizzled feathering ring. Idk. And he toots when he talks. It’s cute. I really need to video that too- sorry thinking out loud! Anyway- just curious!


*YUK! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Fraz is nasty. Different mother and different father so any relationship would be distant; cousin somewhere down the line. All of my hens are related to Fraz's great grandmother in someway. Only Snowball is totally unrelated.*


----------



## Overmountain1

Very cool- ok yes Fraz is kind of a mess, but somehow that makes him that much more lovable. I always like the oddballs though. Don’t know why....


----------



## Overmountain1

_no comments from the peanut gallery!_


----------



## robin416

danathome said:


> *YUK! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Fraz is nasty. Different mother and different father so any relationship would be distant; cousin somewhere down the line. All of my hens are related to Fraz's great grandmother in someway. Only Snowball is totally unrelated.*


I'm so glad you said that about Fraz. I chose just to ignore the latest pic of him. It was kinder.


----------



## danathome

*Knowing he's nasty from having two frizzle genes, I am going to use him as a breeder; or try too. He is very small and has a great background. I just hope the two frizzle genes have not made him sterile.*


----------



## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> I'm so glad you said that about Fraz. I chose just to ignore the latest pic of him. It was kinder.


Somewhere in Japan is an old collector/breeder who would pay a lot of money for him.


----------



## robin416

And I would probably sell him to them. After I did one test breeding to see what happened.


----------



## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Somewhere in Japan is an old collector/breeder who would pay a lot of money for him.


*Something so ugly? He has potential. When paired with a smooth feathered hen 100% of the chicks will be frizzle. I do hope all the good traits show up in his offspring.*


----------



## Overmountain1

danathome said:


> *Something so ugly? He has potential. When paired with a smooth feathered hen 100% of the chicks will be frizzle. I do hope all the good traits show up in his offspring.*


Me too! That is a good trait to have as a breeding guy, I should think! If he’s turned out as personable as our little Chappie here then he’s a winner anyway.


----------



## danathome

*This is Pablo and RRs newest family; 2 serama chicks, 3 golden ds, and 2 mille ds.*


----------



## Overmountain1

Yay for Mille ds! You’ve been after that for a while!


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Yay for Mille ds! You’ve been after that for a while!


*Nope. Milles are common around here. It's the goldens I was hoping for. Now RR has 3 goldens and the hen that hatched last night has two more goldens so I am quite pleased; now hoping for a cockerel. So far, the chicks from the mille/golden cross are coming out either mille or golden; golden being more plentiful and none looking like a combination of the two-so far-yeah!*


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## robin416

That was a bunch of eggs for that tiny body and considering D eggs are rather large, she did really good.


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## danathome

*OOPS! I fostered the ds to Pablo and RR after they hatched. RR had just the two serama chicks hatch. The d chicks are from the loft and to make it a bit easier on myself I decided to give all the chicks to one hen. Pablo also broods chicks so there won't be a problem as the chicks get bigger. The cochin hen from the loft is now with Tick-tock in the goat pen.*


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## robin416

OMG, how in the heck do you expect me to keep that straight?


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> OMG, how in the heck do you expect me to keep that straight?


*And now Pablo has three more ds. Promise-this material will not be on any future tests or quizzes.*


----------



## robin416

Ack, banging head against wall. At least I'm sticking to two breed/species. I can keep them straight.


----------



## danathome

*Have you thought of fifty names yet??*


----------



## robin416

Not going to happen. They're shorties, every single one of them is called Shorty.


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> Not going to happen. They're shorties, every single one of them is called Shorty.


*But I named mine, One, Two, Three, Four, and Five. The names are interchangeable. HEHEHA.*


----------



## robin416

Well, I'm not doing doing 57. Shorty works just fine and they don't seem to mind.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> Well, I'm not doing doing 57. Shorty works just fine and they don't seem to mind.


Shorty 1 through 57!


----------



## Overmountain1

danathome said:


> *Have you thought of fifty names yet??*


Robin I KNEW you’d give in but had no idea it’d be that huge. I’m so laughing. Bet you wish you’d taken me up on the Ds after all! Hahahaha jk jk that’s so fun though- pics???


----------



## robin416

Yeah, there's a thread where I fessed up to what I did. But they're so stinking cute! I keep going out and looking at them. Some are doing the popcorn thing. Once they all get going it's going to be a riot.


----------



## Animals45

danathome said:


> I just joined this group today and still looking around the different threads and forums. While I have different breeds and species, it's serama that interest me the most. Are there threads for serama bantams? I do not show the birds I raise, so mine are pets.
> View attachment 35284
> View attachment 35286
> View attachment 35288





danathome said:


> I just joined this group today and still looking around the different threads and forums. While I have different breeds and species, it's serama that interest me the most. Are there threads for serama bantams? I do not show the birds I raise, so mine are pets.
> View attachment 35284
> View attachment 35286
> View attachment 35288


Look at those tails! Stunning birds!


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## Overmountain1

Dan does have some rather gorgeous birds!


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> Talk about eye candy. Even if he's not snowy white now he'd still be stunning.


I have a son from his last year's chicks snowy white and very stunning. Looks just like above otherwise.

This is Sei all decked out in his rooster feathering and fully mature. The blue is all gone but a hint of it in his tail and flight feathers. The first picture is accurate for color. The second picture shows his posture a bit better. I am very proud of this guy; even better than is father. I do wish he had longer/normal legs. All of my chicks are ending up short legged though genetic research says I should be getting 50% long legs. Not happening.


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## robin416

He really is a pretty boy.


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## Overmountain1

Dan I knew he’d grow up to be a pretty boy! I had faith in the little guy.  

I have a question- little Chappie is a bit of an oddity already with his lightly drizzled feathers. He also crows to one side- like almost at a 90 degree when he’s done? Is there anything you know about that? I assume it’s just how he is etc but have you seen them do this before? I can send a video if you want. It’s just… well it’s odd! Lol love the little oddball.


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Dan I knew he’d grow up to be a pretty boy! I had faith in the little guy.
> 
> I have a question- little Chappie is a bit of an oddity already with his lightly drizzled feathers. He also crows to one side- like almost at a 90 degree when he’s done? Is there anything you know about that? I assume it’s just how he is etc but have you seen them do this before? I can send a video if you want. It’s just… well it’s odd! Lol love the little oddball.


*I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean. A video would help.*


----------



## Overmountain1

I’ll take one today and get it to you! It’s hard to describe without it, agreed!


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> I’ll take one today and get it to you! It’s hard to describe without it, agreed!


*OK*


----------



## Overmountain1

Hey Dan- I did try to send the video (from above) thru to Kimmi but she may not have gotten it. I’ll try to email. I thought you’d be interested to know the Serama are 12oz cock and 14oz hen now they’re full grown. They’re a hoot!


----------



## danathome

Since they're from my flock I can critique them-disappointing. Too horizontal, his hackles are thin, the combs are too big, 14 oz is big for my flock, and his tail curves too much. I am glad you like them, but too me it shows that Snow has to go as a breeder. With luck Sei will produce better. Others of my youngsters have been the same. This is bad; no one will buy my stock if this is how they turn out.


----------



## danathome

No offense to you, Sarah, the birds look well taken are of and, likely spoiled. To me, as a breeder, I find them disturbing; very unlike what I have been getting from my flock in prior years. I have Pablo set up in a breeding pen and I'm hoping. Pablo is of my line and if he proves fertile, I can get a cockerel from him that will produce as the grandfather did. Many times I have wanted to kick myself for selling Granddad.


----------



## Overmountain1

There’s no way to know til you know! And now you do and so can turn it back around, I’m sure you can get them where you want them. 
I know they may not be what you had aimed for, but you’re right, we sure love them! They’re funny things, and they won’t leave the poofy girl. Ive tried. They all 3 raise holy hell til they’re together again, they choose to sleep in a pile under her nightly. It’s odd but also oddly endearing! 
Chappie is a fun little dude. He tries to challenge my Tiny all the time, but Tiny just looks at him. It’s really funny. He could absolutely peck him but doesn’t.


----------



## robin416

Overmountain1 said:


> There’s no way to know til you know! And now you do and so can turn it back around, I’m sure you can get them where you want them.
> I know they may not be what you had aimed for, but you’re right, we sure love them! They’re funny things, and they won’t leave the poofy girl. Ive tried. They all 3 raise holy hell til they’re together again, they choose to sleep in a pile under her nightly. It’s odd but also oddly endearing!
> Chappie is a fun little dude. He tries to challenge my Tiny all the time, but Tiny just looks at him. It’s really funny. He could absolutely peck him but doesn’t.


To spend a day at your house.


----------



## Overmountain1

Always the chicken drama.


----------



## danathome

Snow will be going to a new home Saturday. Sei will be flock leader and it is hoped that his offspring will be an improvement over his dad's. I candled the five test eggs of Pablo and three are developing; yeah! I had concerns that Pablo had become sterile due to a long term illness. Now to wait and see if those three eggs hatch or if they'll be victims of the creeper gene. I've ordered some serama eggs from normal legged hens in order to get ONE normal legged hen to pair with Pablo should the creeper gene effect more than 25% of the eggs laid.


----------



## Poultry Judge

Overmountain1 said:


> Hey Dan- I did try to send the video (from above) thru to Kimmi but she may not have gotten it. I’ll try to email. I thought you’d be interested to know the Serama are 12oz cock and 14oz hen now they’re full grown. They’re a hoot!


Those chickens should not be driving.


----------



## danathome

HA- they'd probably do better at driving than some people on the road, but how would the reach the gas?


----------



## Overmountain1

That’s what Hensleys for- so they can steer and she can jump up and down on the gas!


----------



## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> HA- they'd probably do better at driving than some people on the road, but how would the reach the gas?


That's easy, one chicken steers and one chicken jumps on the pedals.


----------



## danathome

*A nice surprise this rainy morning. Hatched on days 17 and 18. The hen is between 8 and 10 ounces. This is the first time she succeeded in hatching her eggs-5, 3 white like dad and 2 like herself.*


----------



## robin416

Very nice prize for an otherwise nasty day.


----------



## danathome

robin416 said:


> Very nice prize for an otherwise nasty day.


With Snowflake gone, I'm hoping these yellow chicks become bright white birds like their dad or better. I plan on keeping a cockerel and all the pullets from this batch and a frizzle pullet from the brooder.


----------



## Overmountain1

Yay! That’s always a happier day to have new babies. Dan, I didn’t realize some of your hens were quite that small- how cute! I do like that our girl is a solid layer, so no fertility issues for her it seems.  So while she may not be the smallest ever, she IS still tiny, and suits us perfect.


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Yay! That’s always a happier day to have new babies. Dan, I didn’t realize some of your hens wer*e quite that small*- how cute! I do like that our girl is a solid layer, so no fertility issues for her it seems.  So while she may not be the smallest ever, she IS still tiny, and suits us perfect.


*I have 2 others that are smaller. Each generation I pick the smallest to keep. This year has been so awful with weather and health I haven't paired for the next generation until this week. I decided, this morning, to keep the chicks that just hatched IF they turn out. There's two tiny hens that I want the next generation from; my two smallest. One, I want to pair with Fraz as he is even smaller than the hen, and a frizzle paired to Sei. The frizzle and Sei are set up for breeding, so they should have chicks late in September.

I also have eleven developing shipped eggs that I hope to get Silkied Serama from and those will be added to the flock if they are the quality I want.

I'm glad to hear that fertility isn't a problem with your serama hen. Have you hatched any of her eggs? Fertility is not positive until eggs hatch.*


----------



## Overmountain1

danathome said:


> *I have 2 others that are smaller. Each generation I pick the smallest to keep. This year has been so awful with weather and health I haven't paired for the next generation until this week. I decided, this morning, to keep the chicks that just hatched IF they turn out. There's two tiny hens that I want the next generation from; my two smallest. One, I want to pair with Fraz as he is even smaller than the hen, and a frizzle paired to Sei. The frizzle and Sei are set up for breeding, so they should have chicks late in September.
> 
> I also have eleven developing shipped eggs that I hope to get Silkied Serama from and those will be added to the flock if they are the quality I want.
> 
> I'm glad to hear that fertility isn't a problem with your serama hen. Have you hatched any of her eggs? Fertility is not positive until eggs hatch.*


No, I haven’t set any Serama eggs yet, I felt like I had enough else on my plate for the time being- when she started laying was after I’d hatched all the rest too. 
We will for sure though! I’d love to have a second hen, though, when I do get that far.


----------



## Animals45

What a nice surprise!🐣 When you hatch chicks do you keep them or sell them?


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> No, I haven’t set any Serama eggs yet, I felt like I had enough else on my plate for the time being- when she started laying was after I’d hatched all the rest too.
> We will for sure though! I’d love to have a* second hen*, though, when I do get that far.


*When you're ready, the easiest and fastest way to get serama to go broody is to just leave her eggs where she lays them. One of my very young pullets started to lay a short time ago. With 6-7 eggs she has gone broody already.

There's 5 frizzle chicks in my brooder; if there's an extra pullet I'll save it for you. Should we be unlucky with rooitis, two of Pablo's hens are brooding-so there will soon be more frizzle chicks-if the creeper gene doesn't do them in. I candled one hen's eggs and of seven, four are developing-yeahhh!!!!*


----------



## danathome

Animals45 said:


> What a nice surprise!🐣 When you hatch chicks do you keep them or sell them?


I do.


----------



## Animals45

danathome said:


> I do.


Oh really? That's awesome! But how do you handle so many chicks and birds at one time?


----------



## danathome

*For me, raising birds is a hobby. I sell enough birds to pay the feed bill and to buy an occasional bird. I do not raise many at a time; rarely more than a dozen. But it's year around-all the time. Like now, there's around a dozen chicks in the brooder that are almost old enough to sex. Once they're sexed, they're sold. As the brooder empties, more chicks are hatching-actually two brooders-one with new and small chicks and another with older, bigger chicks. If any are left from the second brooder and outgrow it, they are moved to a "baby" coop until they sell or are incorporated into the breeder flocks.*

*A hobby-not to make money-but to enjoy and to meet people. Should I make extra cash-great. It goes toward the real estate taxes. This year has been a good one. The tax money has been saved and now to save for Christmas presents.*


----------



## danathome

This is Sadie, one of the hens with Pablo. She started with seven eggs and the creeper gene killed three eggs. The other four hatched this morning; 2 black, 1 rusty-brown, and a beige. The neat thing about these chicks is they could be frizzle, smooth, or silkied.


----------



## Overmountain1

Dan- if you ever get a beige frizzle or a light beige fluffy one- I definitely want!  I want a beige in the flock in general but I just love the Serama with beige feathers for some reason. 
Can’t wait to see how this batch turn out!


----------



## Animals45

danathome said:


> This is Sadie, one of the hens with Pablo. She started with seven eggs and the creeper gene killed three eggs. The other four hatched this morning; 2 black, 1 rusty-brown, and a beige. The neat thing about these chicks is they could be frizzle, smooth, or silkied.
> View attachment 42268


Wow, she's doing such a great job! I had a broody EE one time, it didn't go very well though she attacked and killed them when they were hatching..


----------



## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Dan- if you ever get a beige frizzle or a light beige fluffy one- I definitely want!  I want a beige in the flock in general but I just love the Serama with beige feathers for some reason.
> Can’t wait to see how this batch turn out!


I have a few right now, but too young to be sure of their sex. Pablo's hen has one beige chick; but the chances of being frizzle AND a pullet? 50% chance of being frizzle. 50% chance of being a pullet so what are the chances of being frizzle and a pullet-25%? I am not sure of my math skills tonight.


----------



## Overmountain1

Yeah, 50% of 50%. So.  No hurry anyway, you know me.


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## danathome

I'm debating with myself as to keeping these two as part of the next generation. I can't remember the generation number anymore. They are frizzles. Due to horrid luck it has taken months to get frizzle chicks, now I have several all at one time.


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## robin416

Tough choice. Of course I lean towards the lighter colored peep.


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## danathome

They are nice little girls, but I'll wait to see how they develop; so far, so good. I have them on an ad to sell, so I'll remove them on the sell list.

There's a few from the WV eggs that look real good too.


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## lovely_chooks

danathome said:


> I'm debating with myself as to keeping these two as part of the next generation. I can't remember the generation number anymore. They are frizzles. Due to horrid luck it has taken months to get frizzle chicks, now I have several all at one time.
> 
> 
> View attachment 42361


Your name said Serama king


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## danathome

lovely_chooks said:


> Your name said* Serama king*


That was Robin's doing, not mine.


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## robin416

danathome said:


> That was Robin's doing, not mine.


When did you notice?


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> When did you notice?


A very long time ago. We've talked of this in the past; that's how I knew you did it.


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## robin416

We did? I don't remember. Sort of goes with what 444 said about selective memory.


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> We did? I don't remember. Sort of goes with what 444 said about selective memory.


Yes, it has been a while. Odd how some things I remember and other things are a blank. I suppose it has to do with the day and health issues.

How are you today?


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## robin416

Killing time. I need to water the fig tree, it's living outside with my poinsettia that I've had for years. 

The Dish Network guy is here putting the new system.


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## danathome

I finished the new goat pen, restapled the poultry yard fence, moved bigger chicks out of the house to make room for the newly hatched, and now I'm killing time typing this and watching youtube videos with my beautiful Kimmi.


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## Animals45

danathome said:


> I finished the new goat pen, restapled the poultry yard fence, moved bigger chicks out of the house to make room for the newly hatched, and now I'm killing time typing this and watching youtube videos with my beautiful Kimmi.


That's good you got the goat pen put up. Sounds like me, typing on the chicken forum and watching Youtube videos..


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## danathome

I am glad to have a bigger pen for the goats. The pen they had shrunk as they grew. Now they have room to run and play again. One of my serama buyers was sounding me out about if I wanted some pigmy goats; tempting.


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## Animals45

danathome said:


> I am glad to have a bigger pen for the goats. The pen they had shrunk as they grew. Now they have room to run and play again. One of my serama buyers was sounding me out about if I wanted some pigmy goats; tempting.


That's good! Getting more goats? Can't help yourself I guess. We all get like that sometimes so tempting to get more..


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## danathome

Animals45 said:


> That's good! Getting more goats? Can't help yourself I guess. We all get like that sometimes so tempting to get more..


I really enjoy the little buggers, even though they get into mischief every chance they get. Getting another is tempting, especially in that it's a pygmy goat. We'll see. The lady said she would send pictures, but so far, she hasn't. How are your birds doing?


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## Animals45

danathome said:


> I really enjoy the little buggers, even though they get into mischief every chance they get. Getting another is tempting, especially in that it's a pygmy goat. We'll see. The lady said she would send pictures, but so far, she hasn't. How are your birds doing?


Oh yes so mischievous, I used to have 2 pygmy goats the 1 refused to stay in his pen so he would would go to the end of the pen and then run as fast as he could and then put all 4 legs up in the air and bang up against the wood wall I put up. Eventually he would have to stop since his nose would bleed. My chickens are doing pretty okay! How about yours?


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## danathome

Animals45 said:


> Oh yes so mischievous, I used to have 2 pygmy goats the 1 refused to stay in his pen so he would would go to the end of the pen and then run as fast as he could and then put all 4 legs up in the air and bang up against the wood wall I put up. Eventually he would have to stop since his nose would bleed. My chickens are doing pretty okay! How about yours?


At first we tried to let the kids run free in the backyard, kid proofing as needed. That doesn't work as I could kid proof all day, every day and never get done. Now they have their own large pen with a kid playground. 

Now that the weather is cooler the birds are doing a lot better. I've been finding fresh duck eggs just laid on the ground. I've no idea what kind-muscovy-mallard-call duck. It's out of season for mallard, but I know my mallard hens are not pure mallard.

These little guys hatched yesterday-it's spring!


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## lovely_chooks

danathome said:


> At first we tried to let the kids run free in the backyard, kid proofing as needed. That doesn't work as I could kid proof all day, every day and never get done. Now they have their own large pen with a kid playground.
> 
> Now that the weather is cooler the birds are doing a lot better. I've been finding fresh duck eggs just laid on the ground. I've no idea what kind-muscovy-mallard-call duck. It's out of season for mallard, but I know my mallard hens are not pure mallard.
> 
> These little guys hatched yesterday-it's spring!
> 
> View attachment 42456


Aww can I have one


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## danathome

lovely_chooks said:


> Aww can I have one


Afraid not. These are to be my phoenix flock next spring. How's Buttercup?


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## lovely_chooks

danathome said:


> Afraid not. These are to be my phoenix flock next spring. How's Buttercup?


Sobs I was just joking lOl 

She’s okay she’s still just standing there and like walking slowly.. her comb turned tiny bit purple on the top again


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## danathome

lovely_chooks said:


> *Sobs I was just joking lOl*
> 
> She’s okay she’s still just standing there and like walking slowly.. her comb turned tiny bit purple on the top again


Yes, I know. You live far away. I'll keep my fingers crossed for luck that she pulls through.


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## lovely_chooks

danathome said:


> Yes, I know. You live far away. I'll keep my fingers crossed for luck that she pulls through.


She got in her roosting bar today?! And thanks


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## Animals45

danathome said:


> At first we tried to let the kids run free in the backyard, kid proofing as needed. That doesn't work as I could kid proof all day, every day and never get done. Now they have their own large pen with a kid playground.
> 
> Now that the weather is cooler the birds are doing a lot better. I've been finding fresh duck eggs just laid on the ground. I've no idea what kind-muscovy-mallard-call duck. It's out of season for mallard, but I know my mallard hens are not pure mallard.
> 
> These little guys hatched yesterday-it's spring!
> 
> View attachment 42456


Wow, that's good. Yep mine used to climb my playground ladder and just poop all over the playground.
After that it kind of just turned into theirs, haha!

Oh yes, it's cooling down here also and getting so much better for my animals and birds, now I don't have to feel so bad for them anymore. I would have a hard time finding duck eggs scattered around the yard, might just depend on how many acres you have though. I assume your duck eggs are for hatching?

The chicks looks amazing, happy and healthy! Glad they all are doing good. Did all chicken eggs make it, Or did some not hatch?


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## robin416

I have cleaned Dan's post up.

LC and Animals if you want to goof off then create your own conversation under Chit Chat.


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> I have cleaned Dan's post up.
> 
> If you want to goof off then create your own conversation under Chit Chat.


What was wrong with my post that it needed cleaning up? "Goofing off"? I do not understand.


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## Animals45

danathome said:


> What was wrong with my post that it needed cleaning up? "Goofing off"? I do not understand.


Sorry for the misunderstanding she meant lovely chooks post and some of mine.

Lovely chooks was the one who started writing on here and then she started saying some stuff about me and then we got into a big quarrel on here so Robin had to clean up our stuff.
And like I said sorry about that. Hope you understand!🙃


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## danathome

Animals45 said:


> Sorry for the misunderstanding she meant lovely chooks post and some of mine.
> 
> Lovely chooks was the one who started writing on here and then she started saying some stuff about me and then we got into a big quarrel on here so Robin had to clean up our stuff.
> And like I said sorry about that. Hope you understand!🙃


You two involved me in your foolishness and it caused anger. Use your head and think next time... Apology accepted.


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## chickenpersoon

danathome said:


> I just joined this group today and still looking around the different threads and forums. While I have different breeds and species, it's serama that interest me the most. Are there threads for serama bantams? I do not show the birds I raise, so mine are pets.
> View attachment 35284
> View attachment 35286
> View attachment 35288


I am in love right now!!!!!!! I own 6 Seramas now and are looking to breed them. My rooster is a frizzle (so cute) we should talk Serama


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## danathome

chickenpersoon said:


> I am in love right now!!!!!!! I own 6 Seramas now and are looking to breed them. My rooster is a frizzle (so cute) we should talk Serama


I'm always happy to talk; specially about birds. I do hope you post pictures. Where do you call home-state? How old are your serama? How did you get them? I started when my wife, Kimmi, got me 20+ serama hatching eggs for a birthday several years ago. I've kept birds for 50-60 years; of all kinds.


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## chickenpersoon

danathome said:


> I'm always happy to talk; specially about birds. I do hope you post pictures. Where do you call home-state? How old are your serama? How did you get them? I started when my wife, Kimmi, got me 20+ serama hatching eggs for a birthday several years ago. I've kept birds for 50-60 years; of all kinds.


wow! 50 years?! That is amazing knowing you had to deal with all that noise and poop lol. I will get some pics of 5, because I only have a picture of one. I live in NC, and We got 3 Seramas wanting a cute little bird. Back then I didn't want a rooster, so I gave him away and he drowned. then our other was attacked by a raccoon and died. So we had a lonely hen, and got 5 more. now they are 9-11 weeks old and we are putting them all together. The hen that was attacked was mourned... chickens really do take a place in your heart!!








this is the last hen standing of the first group: pearl!


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## danathome

Pearl is a pretty bird; a nice high vertical tail. She looks to be short legged so you'll want to get a normal legged rooster. When two short legged serama are paired together about 25% of the eggs die before they hatch. Is your frizzle rooster normal legged. It's easy to tell; just look at your birds and if they appear very close to the ground they are short legged.
In the picture, the wood shavings may be making her appear short legged when she isn't.


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## Animals45

danathome said:


> You two involved me in your foolishness and it caused anger. Use your head and think next time... Apology accepted.


Yep like I said sorry, and thank you!


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## Overmountain1

Awww she’s very pretty! Welcome to the forum, I’m sorry for the losses you went through! 
Roosters are definitely unexpected joys once you have had a good one (or more!)


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## chickenpersoon

Overmountain1 said:


> Awww she’s very pretty! Welcome to the forum, I’m sorry for the losses you went through!
> Roosters are definitely unexpected joys once you have had a good one (or more!)


thank you! And I agree roosters can be actually really sweet.


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## danathome

Animals45 said:


> Yep like I said sorry, and thank you!


It's a beautiful, new day and the past is forgotten. Have a good one.


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## danathome

chickenpersoon said:


> thank you! And I agree roosters can be actually really sweet.


Another reason I like serama and phoenix; having multiple roosters together does not involve a lot of bickering and never serious fighting. It is nice to be able to have several beautiful roosters and not have to keep them separate other than breeding situations.


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## chickenpersoon

danathome said:


> Another reason I like serama and phoenix; having multiple roosters together does not involve a lot of bickering and never serious fighting. It is nice to be able to have several beautiful roosters and not have to keep them separate other than breeding situations.


so I could have multiple living together? no fighting?(or not a lot)


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## Animals45

danathome said:


> It's a beautiful, new day and the past is forgotten. Have a good one.


Thank you for understanding! You too!


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## danathome

chickenpersoon said:


> so I could have multiple living together? no fighting?(or not a lot)


I can't give a guarantee because different serama lines may be somewhat different. I have four serama roosters-one is dominant, but does not lord it over the others. Your best bet is to get them young and let them mature together OR when adding a new rooster, get it as a youngster and let it grow up in the flock. That way the original will not be threatened.

A friend in WV has a huge flock with many roosters all sharing the same space.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just read your introduction. It is not safe or a good idea to have serama/serama roosters with larger breeds. Should a larger aggressive rooster go after a serama rooster the serama will lose, be injured, or killed. Serama can not compete with larger breeds for the necessities of life.


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## danathome

A big set-back to my projects-I found Pablo, my black frizzle rooster, dead this morning; with no warning. I've seven of his chicks in the brooder and one is a black frizzle-hopefully a cockerel. Still, not a good start to the day. While he showed no symptoms of disease, it's still a concern that more serama in that pen will sicken and die. The pen will have to be quarantined.


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## Overmountain1

Oh no! I’m so sorry Dan- I know how beloved Pablo has been. I’m sorry for the loss and for the potential for illness going on. I hope things will work out there and be isolated, and the little one grows up good.


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## robin416

The many times you've mentioned him I know how important he was to you. I sure hope that there is nothing going on and that is was something only he suffered from.


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## danathome

Overmountain1 said:


> Oh no! I’m so sorry Dan- I know how beloved Pablo has been. I’m sorry for the loss and for the potential for illness going on. I hope things will work out there and be isolated, and the little one grows up good.


A definite downer, but not a total surprise as he was never the healthiest rooster. The potential for disease is there but low. Still, it's better safe than sorry. His chicks look good.



robin416 said:


> The many times you've mentioned him I know how important he was to you. I sure hope that there is nothing going on and that is was something only he suffered from.


By now you'd think I'd know better than to get attached to a none to healthy chicken. Pure breeds don't make the best pets as they, all to often, get sick and die. Mix breeds make the better pet as they are genetically stronger on average. Kimmi's last pet hen was ten when she died; still laid a few eggs and was killed by a hawk-a mix breed. Since then Kimmi doesn't allow herself to think of chickens as pets; they die to easily for her taste. Shortly after we moved here to TN, disease wiped out most of the birds we had brought with us from WI.


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## chickenpersoon

danathome said:


> A big set-back to my projects-I found Pablo, my black frizzle rooster, dead this morning; with no warning. I've seven of his chicks in the brooder and one is a black frizzle-hopefully a cockerel. Still, not a good start to the day. While he showed no symptoms of disease, it's still a concern that more serama in that pen will sicken and die. The pen will have to be quarantined.


Oh no. I know that is hard, comfort is being sent to you. ❤ 

Losing a favorite chicken is like a kick form a horse. But you frogive it and heal. And getting a new favorite is like a strong hug. It pushes a way all the pain from losing the bird. You don't forget and move on. It can be hard but you have to. Stop wallowing in the sorrow of the pass and step forward into the present. Always forgive never forget. And move on and keep the memories of your pass chickens but don't build your self a prison. Just keep moving up the path you have.
- chick named small fri


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## danathome

I've raised birds/poultry too long to wallow over the death of one. Yes, he was a favorite; spending most of his life as a house pet, but he was always less than robust and went through long periods of time where it was day-to-day. My wife, who professes not to be close to any bird, is likely to be more upset by this when she gets home than me. But thank you for your post. It is nice to know that people still care about people.


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## robin416

The one and only positive about his passing is that it happened quickly.


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> The one and only positive about his passing is that it happened quickly.


True. I hate seeing things suffer.


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## Animals45

chickenpersoon said:


> wow! 50 years?! That is amazing knowing you had to deal with all that noise and poop lol. I will get some pics of 5, because I only have a picture of one. I live in NC, and We got 3 Seramas wanting a cute little bird. Back then I didn't want a rooster, so I gave him away and he drowned. then our other was attacked by a raccoon and died. So we had a lonely hen, and got 5 more. now they are 9-11 weeks old and we are putting them all together. The hen that was attacked was mourned... chickens really do take a place in your heart!!
> View attachment 42517
> 
> this is the last hen standing of the first group: pearl!


Shes absolutely gorgeous!


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## chickenpersoon

Animals45 said:


> Shes absolutely gorgeous!


Thank you so much. After the life she's had, that will make her so happy when I tell her that. (Yes, I talk to my chickens)


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## danathome

My silkied serama hatching eggs didn't turn out. Of 16 eggs 9 chicks hatched and thrived-all smooth feathered. These two might be added to my flock (cockerel and pullet). The other seven are not near as nice as my own so they will go ASAP Many people have the idea that poor quality chicks will improve with age; it does not happen. Flawed chicks grow into flawed adults.









The pullet on the left has a unique coloration and is of good size for her age. The cockerel on is of good size and has a great shape. You couldn't tell it by the picture though. These two had never been handled before.


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## chickenpersoon

danathome said:


> My silkied serama hatching eggs didn't turn out. Of 16 eggs 9 chicks hatched and thrived-all smooth feathered. These two might be added to my flock (cockerel and pullet). The other seven are not near as nice as my own so they will go ASAP Many people have the idea that poor quality chicks will improve with age; it does not happen. Flawed chicks grow into flawed adults.
> 
> View attachment 42600
> 
> The pullet on the left has a unique coloration and is of good size for her age. The cockerel on is of good size and has a great shape. You couldn't tell it by the picture though. These two had never been handled before.


those are very cute and pretty. Do you show your birds?


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## danathome

chickenpersoon said:


> those are very cute and pretty. Do you show your birds?


No I don't.


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## Animals45

chickenpersoon said:


> Thank you so much. After the life she's had, that will make her so happy when I tell her that. (Yes, I talk to my chickens)


That's awesome.


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## danathome

The chicks I hatched from the shipped WV eggs are a major disappointment; pure crap, but as with most things, there's an exception that made my efforts worthwhile. Kimmi named this pullet Smokey because of her smokey feathering. A neat thing about serama is there's no end to the colors and patterns their feathers can be; and Smokey is unique.




























White, gray, black, and rust-a beautiful combination; way more so than the picture shows. I just hope she retains the colors as she matures.

Two of the reject chicks have a home to go to, leaving six I do not want and can not sell. They are worthless for any breeding purposes with some hardly looking serama. I hope to give them as pets to someone.


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## chickenpersoon

danathome said:


> The chicks I hatched from the shipped WV eggs are a major disappointment; pure crap, but as with most things, there's an exception that made my efforts worthwhile. Kimmi named this pullet Smokey because of her smokey feathering. A neat thing about serama is there's no end to the colors and patterns their feathers can be; and Smokey is unique.
> 
> View attachment 42716
> 
> 
> View attachment 42717
> 
> 
> View attachment 42718
> 
> 
> White, gray, black, and rust-a beautiful combination; way more so than the picture shows. I just hope she retains the colors as she matures.
> 
> Two of the reject chicks have a home to go to, leaving six I do not want and can not sell. They are worthless for any breeding purposes with some hardly looking serama. I hope to give them as pets to someone.


she really is! Even though the experience might have been crap, she is a pretty bird


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## danathome

The cockerel I showed with Smokey previously did not turn out.

For anyone getting shipped eggs, it's unfortunate that what hatches may not be as nice as you hoped for. I guess the same is true for shipped chicks.


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## danathome

chickenpersoon said:


> she really is! Even though the experience might have been crap, she is a pretty bird


Thank you. It's to be hoped that her body develops well.


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## Animals45

danathome said:


> The chicks I hatched from the shipped WV eggs are a major disappointment; pure crap, but as with most things, there's an exception that made my efforts worthwhile. Kimmi named this pullet Smokey because of her smokey feathering. A neat thing about serama is there's no end to the colors and patterns their feathers can be; and Smokey is unique.
> 
> View attachment 42716
> 
> 
> View attachment 42717
> 
> 
> View attachment 42718
> 
> 
> White, gray, black, and rust-a beautiful combination; way more so than the picture shows. I just hope she retains the colors as she matures.
> 
> Two of the reject chicks have a home to go to, leaving six I do not want and can not sell. They are worthless for any breeding purposes with some hardly looking serama. I hope to give them as pets to someone.


Wow, gorgeous! Looks like a Smokey! Perfect job on naming.


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## danathome

Animals45 said:


> Wow, gorgeous! Looks like a Smokey! Perfect job on naming.


I am pleased. Thank you.


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## Animals45

danathome said:


> I am pleased. Thank you.


No problem! What breed is she?


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## danathome

Animals45 said:


> No problem! What breed is she?


Serama.


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## Animals45

danathome said:


> Serama.


Wow, I heard they are the smallest breed, is that right? I actually prefer the smaller breeds.


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## danathome

Animals45 said:


> Wow, I heard they are the smallest breed, is that right? I actually prefer the smaller breeds.


Yes they are, but many people raise a serama that is bigger because they are more prolific, so it's buyer beware. A person should always look at the breeding stock if they want smaller serama. My first serama came from shipped eggs from two separate locations; one batch of eggs grew into what was obviously cross breeds and the second were way, over-sized serama; bigger than other bantam breeds. The eggs were off ebay sites. I keep buying off ebay at times. However, I'm much more careful.


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## Animals45

danathome said:


> Yes they are, but many people raise a serama that is bigger because they are more prolific, so it's buyer beware. A person should always look at the breeding stock if they want smaller serama. My first serama came from shipped eggs from two separate locations; one batch of eggs grew into what was obviously cross breeds and the second were way, over-sized serama; bigger than other bantam breeds. The eggs were off ebay sites. I keep buying off ebay at times. However, I'm much more careful.


Oh really, wow!


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## danathome

Sadie laid seven eggs this time around. Since she can only brood five eggs, I put two in the incubator. For the first time in a very long time there was a 100% hatch; seven new serama chicks. What a surprise! The weather has been so cold and wet I didn't expect much. Obviously they are genetically strong to hatch in such horrid conditions, so all the pullets will be kept for the next generation.


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## Poultry Judge

That's great!


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## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> That's great!


I think so. Their color is a surprise too. Sadie has always thrown dark chicks for the most part. A new rooster...


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## lovely_chooks

Off topic but the forum is so dead these days


----------

