# Identifying The Chippy Chip



## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

Hey y'all! I'm going to share a buttload of pics in a second of my tiny rooster Chip. I honestly believe he weighs under a pound but haven't gotten to weigh him just yet. At any rate, he is a really handsome fella, with a quirky fun personality. He crows. A lot. Loudly. But as you can see, he's also still a Momma's boy. I'm not saying he never pecks me but not often, and it's prob half my fault when he does. Little turd. Anyway, I'm including baby and adult pics to help narrow things down. Maybe. He's a TS bantam, so I know he could be literally anything, but I feel like he has some OEG characteristics, tho definitely not OEG at the same time. 
Shut up woman! I talk too much- here is the Chip- my son would like to show him next year- we are pretty confident he will be cooperative by then. (Age, practice, etc) But, if possible, breed stuff is helpful there.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

He does look like an Old English but considering I'm not the best at spotting breeds when PJ weighs in you'll have more confirmation about what he is. 

He's got nice type. (body shape and stance) You might have hit on one in a thousand of nice birds from a hatchery.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Black Red Oxford type (ii). He has yellow legs? I think Gypsy Face. Some might say he's a Black Breasted Red but he's a Black Red. The Oxfords are slightly taller than the Carlisle strains. You have one pic showing his wide game stance. Good conformation. Very Handsome Boy! Be glad he's a Mama's boy and not a Puffball. These guys are full of antics, I imagine he's pretty entertaining! He should be about 26 ounces. You could show him.


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

Awesome!! Thank you both sooo very much, and PJ, you're a rockstar.  Thank you, and thank you again! He is such a good. He always has to run over to the 'big chicken pen' and show off for the ladies, despite my incredibly tolerant giant (he stands 30" tall, (yardstick, treats, and two ppl!) - without neck fully extended. Then he got to a whopping 31.5" height. Seriously, I couldn't have had two Roos more opposite on the growth spectrum here, aside from a handful anyway! 

So, point being, he goes and dances for them, and trots around the yard like a.... windup rooster! I love it- he follows me everywhere, and he's just a bundle of fun. I am incredibly grateful for your expertise! His legs are much more of a skin color than yellow. Would this affect his showing, or just narrow things down further? TIA!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

It helps narrow things down further because different breeds have different skin color. 

It's always wonderful to have one like him around.


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

I thought that was the case here as well! Which is awesome- and look what I found- so exact could be his sire! I don't even know if Cackle is one of their suppliers at TS, but definite identification! Took me just a couple clicks after to find these. The whole family (individually) said "Yay! Thank you!"


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Yep, that could be your boy. It sometimes happens a near perfect bird pops up in hatchery flocks. You were one of the lucky few to land one.


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

Definitely! What's kinda funny is that we didn't choose them- hubbs was there to get something for the first 4, and called me and we said yeah, definitely more (ha!) So, the lady in front of him took all except two out of that particular group, leaving the 2 tiny things all alone. Well, since he's a softie he chose them first. Tada! Here we are with a dozen chickens, and couldn't be happier with that.  All told was 15, but -2 roos to new home, and -1 lil chick.

Thank you again, very much appreciated, both of you!!


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Thanks to Overmountain1 for the Cackle Hatchery photo! In the States here, they are not going to differentiate much, if at all between a Black Breasted Red and a Black Red. If you compete in APA sanctioned shows they are all in one Game category. I went to school in Ireland and received my training there and in the EU this stuff is still religion. The split between the Oxford and Carlisle clubs was a hundred years ago but the breed strains go back several hundred years earlier. The argument was over breeding for Modern Games and making them overly pretty versus traditional Games. If you can post a pic of head, legs, feet, and you have a good side profile pic, I can narrow it down a bit further. I think he is from good stock lineage. If you show this Banty you will have more information than the judge. 2020 has been a terrible hatching year for the hatcheries due to many factors. I wonder if the hatchery sent some show Bantams to TSC due to them not being sold etcetera. What breed is your big rooster? I am posting a (not terribly useful pic I took this afternoon), of one of my OEG Knowsley Stock Earl of Derby chicks, which was a precursor to Black Reds and the Black Breasted Reds, (1610, 1611 -ish). In this case, I am looking to recover white beak and feet traits which were intentionally bred out when they were brought to America during the late 1700's. Time will tell.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Also thanks for all the timeline pics of Chip, they definitely demonstrate a lot of the feather changes. We tell the 4H and FFA kids to do this and I am guilty and don't do it myself. The teacup one is precious and they do grow slowly. Do you have info on the hen in the second picture? I like your description of Chip showing off in front of the larger chickens! That is exactly what they do.


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

That is Miss Jackie in the second pic, and I suppose she is still a pullet as we are still waiting on that first one!  They are both.... really they're still just teenagers in the grand scheme; 21 weeks for those two, Chip and Jackie. 
I think he stays puffed up 1/4 or so of the time.... which, in itself, is amusing. We do try not to laugh too much I promise! He's just so... cute! He was raised with 2 Australorp roosters and Jackie, until 15 weeks or so. I'm not sure how this affected his personality but I feel sure it did- he wasn't allowed to be the biggest rooster on the block, and couldn't really bloom until we rehomed them. But then he had his girl all to himself, and those two are really close as far as these things go.
I don't have quite as many good identifying shots of Jackie but I definitely have plenty in general!  I love it, and I find it fascinating. I'm stoked that you know so much about the OEG and related, among many others! I don't know a whole lot about breeding yet, but I feel sure I'm going to want to learn in the not too distant future! 
Let's see here... ok I had to share the upside down chicken- there's some feet!  I'll see what he will be in the mood for tomorrow and see if we can't get some more clear shots of them, Jackie is rotten to bits so she's no problem, and Chip's close to the same, as long as the inanimate phone doesn't freak him out.... one never knows here!


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Very nice!


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

Well now I am not sure what to think, and I’m not trying to start any kind of debate with anyone. 

Dubbing. I guess if we were planning to show Chip he would need this done soon? Will it need be done for 4-H? 

I’m just not sure I have the stomach to do this to him, and it does get really hot in summers here. Yes I’m asking for info AND opinion both, and I don’t judge anyone for anything, I just want to know, as far as you know at least! 

Many thanks, anyone feel free to throw in here too.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Don't dub him. They are trying to stop that practice, obviously they haven't if you're asking about it. 4H is very much about the child showing the bird and their knowledge of care, the bird itself, etc. So dubbing shouldn't be a part of it. It might also knock points off if it is done in a 4H show. 

Dubbing started because of the prominent combs the possibility of frostbite. 

I really hate that they're still dubbing. 

You know, PJ may have some insight into whether there have ever been birds shown at the APA shows that were not dubbed.


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

As of now, the APA still disqualifies after Nov 1st. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who feels this a cruel and unnecessary thing to do to them. And of course I don’t mean to offend anyone. I don’t. But I can’t say I agree, that is all!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Wait, are you saying they're stopping the practice of dubbing? Finally? 

I need to dig into this more. If the APA is banning it what is the ABA doing?


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Please don't dub. The ABA is a bit behind but the practice is being stopped and will be ended. They will follow the APA trends and patterns (eventually), they always have. (Yes I am intimately aware of the language in the Standards manual). I could give you all the history but it's a lot of information. I was hoping that 2020 would be the year they officially discontinue it forever in the United States. Suffice it to say, many states in this country, in fact most states, the criminal law specifically states that dubbed birds can be used as confiscated evidence of birds intended for the pit. The frostbite excuse simply doesn't hold up in court. In the EU, the birds have paper documentation. Don't get talked into dubbing a bird, it's not humane and it's technically, according to the letter of the law, illegal in most states. This is serious stuff. Fossil Ledges as well as two other Ohio sanctuaries have held animals as evidence in felony prosecution cases. If you run into issues showing, please contact me and we will discuss in detail. I don't mean to scare anyone but I have seen folks prosecuted. My general advice when showing at any poultry show is to always state that you are abiding by the laws in the state in which you live. If some local poultry judge still wants the birds dubbed, then perhaps I wouldn't participate in that particular show. For the record, none of my birds are dubbed and I am still an EU judge.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Was Miss Jackie sold as a Spangle? A very attractive pullet!


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

Jackie was our other TS 'bantam bin' chicken.  She's a funny one!

Good. I'm relieved to hear that, and I did read through a fair amount of debates as well! I couldn't do it, no matter how much I wanted to show him anyway, but I am incredibly glad to hear that there are ways around it, or starting to be. I know it's much more of a fighting thing, but I was shocked they DO still require it (per current regs at least.) Tradition isn't a good enough reason, even if one preferred the 'look' of it, but I'm glad steps have been taken toward correcting this. As far as I can tell the ABA hasn't stricken that yet either.

Don't worry guys, I'm not gonna do it, so I really wanted to understand what my options were primarily, and while approaching the issue delicately as I know it is/can be a hot button topic and that sort of thing.

Thank you for 'schooling' me on both parts- Mr Chip's heritage AND this. Truly! I appreciate it.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Even if anyone was on the forum that was a huge supporter of the practice there would be no way they or anyone else would we allow someone against the practice to be denigrated. 

I hope there are more and more like us getting involved with the birds that disapprove of the practice. It's the old, long time breeders that are the ones that will fight stopping dubbing tooth and nail. They're going to lose.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Yes, exactly Robin. The old longtime breeders have the Gamefowl Network and their own presence on Facebook.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

I would definitely get the kids involved with the 4H Poultry program, it's a very well rounded learning experience and definitely benefited my kids when they were young. Then you can call Chip "Sir Chippy Chip" or something conducive to his regal station and conformation!


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

Meh, it's Sunday. Why not share some pics of the pretty boy?  Pics are fun! I love seeing everyone's feathered friends, and if you don't want to see mine, well, I think you're in the wrong place! Jk.

[mention]Poultry Judge [/mention] - you had mentioned a picture of his feet too at one point- he gave me the perfect shot so there they are!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Jeeze, he's a pretty bird. That first pic needs to be framed or made a screen saver or something.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

He is spectacularly handsome, almost perfect conformation! I think he's a winner and you should show him next year. His feet/legs are kind of a light orange? I can give you pointers then.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

They look more pink for me. I don't see the orange. 

It could be the difference in screens, I'm using a Mac these days.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Yes, I'm not sure either.


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

It is more of a pink, very 'skin tone;' it's got some spots that appear *almost* pink pink, but the primary coloring is a very light beige/skin tone.

I can't wait to start showing some of ours moving forward. Chip is very much Momma's Boy, and we are working to get my younger son holding him again and then both comfortable enough to work together etc. However, if he's not easily cooperative we have other great show options for him too, so I may end up showing him myself! The laws in Va against cockerel fighting and dubbing are really strict and can constitute a felony, so I think I won't have trouble expressing that. Thank you so much for that tip- I had already decided it wasn't happening to our boys...

Also- THANK YOU! He is a pretty boy. He's such a little nut, we just love him to bits. There is a video I'll share just cause I think he's a cute little sh-you know what.  
When he goes trotting across the yard with that tail flipping and flopping along like a cape behind him.... well he looks like super-Chip!  He goes charging over to the other run anytime someone gets pecked or makes noise, and he just. Cracks. Me. Up!


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

My Shoester would answer to his name but not with as much gusto as Chip. I swear the little guys are so much more people oriented than most of the big boys.


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## Poultry Judge (Jul 15, 2020)

Maybe "Super Chip" for a show name. That's a great video.


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## Slippy (May 14, 2020)

Great pics!


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## Overmountain1 (Jun 5, 2020)

Haha- thanks everybody! Truly! He was a one in a million odds, and he’s one in a million for temperament too. Couldn’t ask for a Chippier Chip! Unless, of course, it is Super-Chip. 

*I totally just stood here and devised a way he could wear a cape in my head... I may have a problem....


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Do you have chickens? Then nah, there's no problem there.


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