# Pale comb



## DrakeDavis

Hello everyone. I became a member in November. I am new to raising chickens, as of August 2013. I adore my three chicken, buff Orpington, SL Wyandotte and Plymouth Barred Rock. Each of them just started laying eggs, barred rock (dec 1), Wyandotte (dec 10) and lastly, the buff just yesterday . They free-rang during the day, my pit bull mix stands guard.
Whenever I have a question or concern this forum is the first place I go to. You all are so helpful and very generous with advice. I am blessed and thankful I found this forum. 
Okay, on with my question: my Barred Rock, Lucy, has always had a pale comb and wattle. Two weeks ago the breeder I purchased my hens from delivered another coop (yep, the bug got me! I'm preparing to add more girls to my little flock this spring).


















He commented on Lucy's comb; "her comb is very pale, is she laying?". I told him her comb and wattle had always been pale and that she has laid an egg every day since she started the first of Dec. He replied that if something was wrong with her she more than likely wouldn't be laying. Since that day I have been monitoring her, I noticed the color changed from very pale to light red, and than back again, never bright red in color. Today I noticed her comb and wattle appear to be very pale. In conjunction with this paleness, I noticed last week runny poop which has continued into this week. If something is not right with her, I am not sure what it is or what I can do about it. A side note: I feed my chickens organic feed and treats.
I purchased my chickens from a local chicken breeder. He is amazing and always makes himself available to answer any question. He is very gracious with his time. I ask him this morning about my concern with her (wattle and comb are pale and she has loose poop), he suggested I de-worm. I have more questions, however, I don't want to bug him once again. I would prefer an alternative to medication, such as a organic, or something that is not chemical based. 
I use apple cigar vinegar in their water, I supplement with diatomaceous earth and raw garlic as well. I read something about cayenne pepper, but have not tried that yet.
Any suggestions? I appreciate any comments, I sure don't know what to do with my little girl Lucy! Thank you!


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## robin416

Yes, I've seen the cayenne thing too. Not sure I'm sold on it.

Here is the part you do not want to hear, once an over load is established there is not any organic remedy that will remove them. None, zero. Some of the tried and true will hold them down but can not do anything at all once they are established. 

DE is actually a waste of your money. For dust bathing sand is just as effective, if not more since its cheap and you can use more. Internally there is no scientific evidence that it has any benefit at all. All you see are statements from the company or others who may never have had an issue to begin with praising it. 

I also noticed her comb looks a bit shrunken. (is that a word? my dogs got me up way too early) You have a choice to make, use a commercial chemical wormer or hope that she can resolve this on her own. But if there is an over load they are doing damage to her digestive system and some can migrate to other areas of the body.


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## DrakeDavis

robin416 said:


> Yes, I've seen the cayenne thing too. Not sure I'm sold on it.
> 
> Here is the part you do not want to hear, once an over load is established there is not any organic remedy that will remove them. None, zero. Some of the tried and true will hold them down but can not do anything at all once they are established.
> 
> DE is actually a waste of your money. For dust bathing sand is just as effective, if not more since its cheap and you can use more. Internally there is no scientific evidence that it has any benefit at all. All you see are statements from the company or others who may never have had an issue to begin with praising it.
> 
> I also noticed her comb looks a bit shrunken. (is that a word? my dogs got me up way too early) You have a choice to make, use a commercial chemical wormer or hope that she can resolve this on her own. But if there is an over load they are doing damage to her digestive system and some can migrate to other areas of the body.


Thank you Robin416 for your response. .
Alright, darn it, (you are correct, I didn't want to hear that! Hahaha) I understand, I will have to use medication (drats!!!). I understand sometimes medication is required. At times, organic just won't do the trick. I wonder if she has had worms for several month. Her comb has always been pale. I just looked at her again, her comb is now a pink color, yet not the color it should be. She is trying to make me lose my mind! Hahaha! 
Oh my, I didn't know her comb was shrunk. Darn it again! 
Thank you very much for your advise!


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## DrakeDavis

Would I see worms in her droppings? I have not seen any.


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## robin416

You can. It depends if the load is so heavy her digestive tract can no longer support the load. 

What you can do is collect some of her droppings and have your vet do a fecal. That will establish whether there is an over abundance and what kind. 

I've mentioned this in the past. I used to receive a newsletter put out by the poultry industry on scientific findings. One newsletter included a study done on horses and their worming programs. Horses are generally wormed once a month. They decided to see what would happen if they didn't worm every month. It turns out that most horses in good health can self regulate the amount of internal parasites. They suggested that that may also be true with chickens. Its been at least two years, maybe more, since I last wormed my birds. I have seen no indication so far that any are experiencing an over load.


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## DrakeDavis

Whoa, I hope that is not the case! Yikes!

I may do this tomorrow. My dog appears to like to eat chicken poop. Bad dog!!!

The correlation you make between horse and chicken makes sense to me. In theory, I suspect the principle you mention of self regulation is a process that is analogous to exposure to pathogens: Exposure allows the immune system to create natural resistance. Thus, the organism (horse, chicken, people, etc,) builds a strong immune system simply by exposure. Hence, an example, some theorize, that washing hands too often may not allow the body to build resistance.

I read that the eggs should not be eaten for 2 weeks after treatment. Gosh, if that is the case, treating my hens once a month, I would never get fresh eggs! Drats! The feed store is closed today. Friday I will pick up some medication and separate Lucy from the other hens, she will be the only one treated. Does that sound responsible?

Thank you very much for all your help, I appreciate your insight.


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## robin416

I'm one of those people who is against all this stuff we commonly use being antibacterial. We are helping create super bugs with the constant use. I try to avoid buying any type of soap or cleaner without the additives but its tough. Everything includes antibacterial components. 

The only reason they say don't eat the eggs is because no one has done studies to see if any of the drugs we use on them actually ends up in the eggs. I forgot on more than one occasion that my birds were being wormed and ate their eggs any way. Also, some of the wormers we can use on them are also used in people.

Yes, you can treat just her. But that means pulling her out from the others.


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## DrakeDavis

Oops, I meant reasonable, not responsible! Hahaha! 
Thank you again, you have been a great help.


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## robin416

Glad to help. Sometimes I go in some wacky direction and someone will catch it. It seems to be rest related, the more I get the more sense I make.


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## TheLazyL

This summer all 8 of my BO hens had red combs. 3 or 4 eggs daily.

Then they went thru molt and I noticed their combs were pink. 1 egg every other day.

Then Al Bore's global warming hit, unusual cold temperatures with no supplemental coop lighting. 2 hens have red combs and I'm getting 1 egg a day. 

I'm betting that come this spring all combs will be red and eggs production back to 3 or 4 eggs daily.


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## robin416

TheLazyL said:


> This summer all 8 of my BO hens had red combs. 3 or 4 eggs daily.
> 
> Then they went thru molt and I noticed their combs were pink. 1 egg every other day.
> 
> Then Al Bore's global warming hit, unusual cold temperatures with no supplemental coop lighting. 2 hens have red combs and I'm getting 1 egg a day.
> 
> I'm betting that come this spring all combs will be red and eggs production back to 3 or 4 eggs daily.


If you're birds are all young you should be seeing 7 to 8 eggs daily. That low egg count could indicate a problem.


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## TheLazyL

robin416 said:


> If you're birds are all young you should be seeing 7 to 8 eggs daily. That low egg count could indicate a problem.


They are 19 months old.

BO lay 175 to 200 eggs annually. With my 8 I should average 1,400 to 1,600 eggs a year or 3.8 to 4.1 eggs a day.

Molt, cold weather, reduced daylight with no supplemental artificial lighting is what I'm contributing to the 1 egg a day. Before I start using chemicals to treat a guess, I'll wait to see if egg production improves as spring approaches.


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