# Piperazine



## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Name of drug - Piperazine
For use in drinking water for the removal of large roundworms (Ascaridia spp.)
Brand Name(s) - Wazine 17, Wazine 34, PigSwig

*Wazine 17 and PigSwig contain 170 mg piperazine per ml
Dose = 1 ounce (30 ml) per gallon
*
*Wazine 34 contains 340 mg per 1 ml
Dose = 1/2 ounce (15 ml) per gallon*
*
Directions:*
For best results, remove water in the evening (except during hot weather). Then, early the next morning, begin water medicated with Wazine-17, PigSwig or Wazine 34. Provide medicated water only, distributed in waterers sufficient in number so that all birds or animals have access to water. The medicated water should be consumed in 1 day or less.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Perfect instructions Kathy. I dont recommend piperazine as first time wormer though. It'd be better to use valbazen or safeguard as neither will cause a massive large roundworm die off like piperazine. That said, you cant beat piperazine for getting rid of large roundworms if it isnt used routinely.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

What I'm i missing? 30ml = 1 US fluid ounces


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> What I'm i missing? 30ml = 1 US fluid ounces


Thanks, you are correct and I have edited the post.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Ok so as per bottle directions.
Chicks over 6 weeks per 100 birds use 2 ounces/60ml of Wazine in to 2 gallons of water.
If you have only 13 chickens do use 1 ounce in one gallon of water?
Or based on 60ml/100 birds = .6ml per bird , 13 birds x .6ml =7.8ml per gallon for only 13 birds ???????????


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> Ok so as per bottle directions.
> Chicks over 6 weeks per 100 birds use 2 ounces/60ml of Wazine in to 2 gallons of water.
> If you have only 13 chickens do use 1 ounce in one gallon of water?
> Or based on 60ml/100 birds = .6ml per bird , 13 birds x .6ml =7.8ml per gallon for only 13 birds ???????????


"Provide medicated water only, distributed in waterers sufficient in number so that all birds or animals have access to water. The medicated water should be consumed in 1 day or less."
Source: http://www.drugs.com/vet/wazine-17.html

How much do 13 drink in a day? One could make less, but the ratio needs to stay the same.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Let's say they drink 1 gallon ,at 30ml Wazine per gallon they would have the amount of medicine to treat 50 birds.??


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

For a smaller batch, With Wazine 17, I think it works out to 0.23 ml per ounce.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

So you divided 30ml into 128 fl.oz. which would be .234 ml per fluid ounce .
If each chicken drank equal amounts of water each chicken would consume 9.85 ounces @ .234 ml per ounce would be 2.3 ml of wazine per chicken,

At 60ml per 100 birds would be .6ml per bird if all consumed equal parts.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> So you divided 30ml into 128 fl.oz. which would be .234 ml per fluid ounce .
> If each chicken drank equal amounts of water each chicken would consume 9.85 ounces @ .234 ml per ounce would be 2.3 ml of wazine per chicken,
> 
> At 60ml per 100 birds would be .6ml per bird if all consumed equal parts.


More data:








http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/03/15.pdf


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Sorry no offense but the all cut ,copy and paste doesn't help.As stated in post #7 they are drinking one gallon a day.13 birds


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

I think the piperazine range for chickens is 100 - 500 mg/kg, which is 0.27 to 1.34 ml per pound.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Nevermind...........................


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> Sorry no offense but the all cut ,copy and paste doesn't help.As stated in post #7 they are drinking one gallon a day.13 birds


13 five pound hens that are laying should drink all of that, which is in the range of 100-500 mg/kg.

Those that drink less than a laying hen might not get enough medication.


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

I just did 1 oz per gallon and my 21 birds drank it all both times. Much easier for me..


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

nannypattyrn said:


> I just did 1 oz per gallon and my 21 birds drank it all both times. Much easier for me..


Curiously, how much do they usually drink in one day?


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

Mine finished the whole gallon. I took all other water scoures away. I don't monitor their water intake unless I'm medicating.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Keep in mind that during warm/hot weather, birds drink more water. When I had 12 chickens, I mixed 3 ounces wazine per 3 gallons of water for one day as instructed on the bottle. 
Now that I only have 6 birds, I use one ounce wazine per one gallon of water.
The dosage is the same whether there is one bird in your flock or a hundred birds; ounces and water ratio must be equal parts.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

dawg53 said:


> Keep in mind that during warm/hot weather, birds drink more water.
> The dosage is the same whether there is one bird in your flock or a hundred birds; ounces and water ratio must be equal parts.


Thanks. Yes i did keep warm weather in mind.They are 13 weeks old and are consuming one gallon gallon a day.I have monitored it for the last 3 days.
I sell eggs so i legally cannot use Wazine on my egg laying hens unless I'm turning them into my "pets".


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

dawg53 said:


> Keep in mind that during warm/hot weather, birds drink more water. When I had 12 chickens, I mixed 3 ounces wazine per 3 gallons of water for one day as instructed on the bottle.
> Now that I only have 6 birds, I use one ounce wazine per one gallon of water.
> The dosage is the same whether there is one bird in your flock or a hundred birds; ounces and water ratio must be equal parts.


I've also noticed increased water consumption when they start laying. Interesting observation... after a peahen or duck lays an egg, they go straight to the water bowl for a big drink.


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## nannypattyrn (Aug 23, 2015)

Yes, I make sure that they don't go without. I meant that I just don't see who's drinking more than others.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> Thanks. Yes i did keep warm weather in mind.They are 13 weeks old and are consuming one gallon gallon a day.I have monitored it for the last 3 days.
> I sell eggs so i legally cannot use Wazine on my egg laying hens unless I'm turning them into my "pets".


If they are an egg laying breed I bet that works out to about 350 mg/kg. What do they weigh? 2.5 pounds?


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> Ok so as per bottle directions.
> Chicks over 6 weeks per 100 birds use 2 ounces/60ml of Wazine in to 2 gallons of water.
> If you have only 13 chickens do use 1 ounce in one gallon of water?
> Or based on 60ml/100 birds = .6ml per bird , 13 birds x .6ml =7.8ml per gallon for only 13 birds ???????????


I remember someone long ago asking that question. 2 ounces in 2 gallons is the same as 1 ounce in 1 gallon. Give enough water for the whole day . The 2 in 2 would be for a large flock. Most chicken "waterer" doses are not precise. There is nothing you can do about it. Unless you want to assume that each chicken drinks about a cup of water a day. There is no per bird.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

I understand that 1 ounce per 1 gallon is the same 2 for 2.That is why i used 1 ounce for a gallon because they aren't drinking 2 gallons.
So since it says 2 ounces for 2 gallons per 100 birds ..1 ounce for 1 gallon would treat 50 birds???????????
I didn't understand why 13 would need the same as 50 using 1 ounce per 1 gallon.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

A five pound laying hen will probably drink about 10 ounces a day
A one pound *growing* chicken will probably drink about 3 ounces a day
A mature non-laying five pound bird might only drink 4 ounces a day.

Like Dawg said, they'll probably drink more when it's warmer, or less when it's cold.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> I understand that 1 ounce per 1 gallon is the same 2 for 2.That is why i used 1 ounce for a gallon because they aren't drinking 2 gallons.
> So since it says 2 ounces for 2 gallons per 100 birds ..1 ounce for 1 gallon would treat 50 birds???????????
> I didn't understand why 13 would need the same as 50 using 1 ounce per 1 gallon.


It's because the drug has a huge effective range (0.27 to 1.34 ml per pound), though I imagine that the amount at the lower end doesn't yield the better results.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Like i said they are drinking 1 gallon a day since it is hot(for Michigan) last week they drank 1/2 gallon.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> Like i said they are drinking 1 gallon a day since it is hot(for Michigan) last week they drank 1/2 gallon.


Approximately how much do they weigh?


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

The most Wazine 17 I would give one of mine is 1.34 ml per pound.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

2-3lbs ?? I've never weighed them.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

When using wazine, weight of the bird really doesnt matter. But they do have to drink a certain amount for it to be effective, sick birds may or may not drink any at all. This is one reason I prefer to give wormers orally, that way you know they got properly wormed. The same is true for water soluable antibiotics. It's best to inject antibiotics or give it orally to each bird individually.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

dawg53 said:


> When using wazine, weight of the bird really doesnt matter. But they do have to drink a certain amount for it to be effective, sick birds may or may not drink any at all. This is one reason I prefer to give wormers orally, that way you know they got properly wormed. The same is true for water soluable antibiotics. It's best to inject antibiotics or give it orally to each bird individually.


Weight doesn't matter, I was just trying to verify that the 13 that weigh 2-3 pounds would get an acceptable amount, which they are.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

More dosing info:








Above picture from Veterinary Parasitology Handbook








Above picture from:
http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/03/09_therapeutic_agents.pdf


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

The Buck Orpington roo and Light Brahma pullet were close to 5 lbs,all others are 3-4 lbs.
It's hard to get them to stay still for accurate reading.


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## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

Nm156 said:


> Thanks. Yes i did keep warm weather in mind.They are 13 weeks old and are consuming one gallon gallon a day.I have monitored it for the last 3 days.
> I sell eggs so i legally cannot use Wazine on my egg laying hens unless I'm turning them into my "pets".


Hygromycin B is acceptable for use in egg producing birds.
You could also make a wet mash using the required amount of Hygromycin B, the ingredient in Rooster Booster Triple Action Multi Wormer or Strike III: http://durvet.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=380:strike-3

I prefer tablets, but so long as they eat all of the required dose, it is effective. Like I said, a wet mash mix usually gets them to eat all of it.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> The Buck Orpington roo and Light Brahma pullet were close to 5 lbs,all others are 3-4 lbs.
> It's hard to get them to stay still for accurate reading.


Those are excellent weights for birds that age!


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