# Raising orphans



## 1948daydreamer (Sep 9, 2012)

Hey Folks, I haven't posted in awhile,but I do read some. I have been raising orphan chicks for a few months now. Had a lot of predator problems lately. Mostly killing my mother hens trying to protect the little ones,and also taking the hens off their nests and killing them. I have been setting traps and have thinned down the killers some. Caught two large raccoons,one large possum,and two ferrel cats. Did away with a couple of flying predators too. My latest orphans are from a mother hen that was killed on her nest,and the eggs hatched out the day after she was killed. Spent the best part of the day trying to catch 13 little chicks,that didn't know I was trying to rescue them. Kept them in the house for a couple of weeks,then in a large outside pen. They are about 8 weeks old now,and doing very well,and I am letting them out for a little while now every day,and keeping a close eye on them. Their mother would be very proud if she could see them.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Have you addressed the housing issues to keep predators out of your coop? Sure hope so since it sounds like the preds have themselves a carry out place to go to.

When you think about it, chicks are about the easiest to raise without the aid of a hen. Instinctively they know what to do to survive with a little direction from us. We are fairly important when it comes to food and water, where it is and what to do with it.


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## piglett (Jun 21, 2012)

a good stout coop is the 1st thing you need

then a 6' high fence (not one made of chicken wire either)

even if the fenced in area is small to start out with

at least nothing can get the birds


good luck

piglett


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## 1948daydreamer (Sep 9, 2012)

Sorry,
Guess I should have mentioned that all my chickens are Bantams,and are free range. I keep the little orphans in a good pen until they are about half grown,then I turn them loose. They always come back to their pen in the evening to roost,and when they go in,I close and latch the door. After they join the flock,which takes a little while,they will roost in the cedar tree with the rest of the chickens. I live in the woods,and I expect predation,just seems to be more than normal lately.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

1948daydreamer said:


> Sorry,
> Guess I should have mentioned that all my chickens are Bantams,and are free range. I keep the little orphans in a good pen until they are about half grown,then I turn them loose. They always come back to their pen in the evening to roost,and when they go in,I close and latch the door. After they join the flock,which takes a little while,they will roost in the cedar tree with the rest of the chickens. I live in the woods,and I expect predation,just seems to be more than normal lately.


Well, yeah. The word is out that there are easy pickins' and will draw from a long range. All it takes is one **** with kits to wipe out a flock in a single night.

My neighbor thinks total free ranging is a good idea too, she started with ten birds, had several hatches and is now down to three birds and three chicks. I got the pleasure of having to remove one of her dead birds from just outside of my secure chicken pen.


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## 1948daydreamer (Sep 9, 2012)

Some folks think chickens in a cage,(large or small it is still a cage)is a good idea. I think they are happier running free. Just my opinion. My chickens are all pets,and I have had some of them for years. They eat out of my hand,and seem to like to hang around me when I am out in the yard. My flock ranges from 20 to 10 or 15 birds,not counting biddies, depending on different factors. I give some of the biddies away,and a rooster now and then. They have young ones,and some make it and some don't. Just like all the other free animals in nature. If you have never watched a mother hen with a bunch of biddies running loose,then you have missed one of the greatest joys of having chickens. If I had to cage them up,I would just get rid of them,because they wouldn't like it any more than I would.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

No one said anything about a cage. All of my birds are secured every night. It is my responsibility to see that they are safe and secure. Just as I do with my dogs, my kids, my cats, my family. My chickens are no less worthy of my protecting them at night when predators are so active.


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

I don't think you need a cage. Just a nice little house or coop that is predator proof against your predators for the hens to sleep in. It would cut your chicken loses and then free range in the day, every day and all day.

They don't do much at night and they probably like the coop because they feel safe. You would still have happy chicken with wide open spaces.


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## 1948daydreamer (Sep 9, 2012)

My chicken losses are almost all during the day,and outside the yard where the hens sometimes choose to nest. I think it would be great if my chickens would return to a coop every night. All of them,including the present bunch of orphans were born here and most of them were raised in a predator proof pen with roosts. They stay and roost in there for awhile and then one night they just do not return to the pen. They join the rest of the flock in the large cedar tree in my front yard. They are pretty safe in the tree,because it is close to my front door,and my dog will not allow any animals in the yard. If a predator were to get into the tree at night it would get at most one bird,unlike in a coop where it could wipe out the entire flock because they could not escape. I also have nesting boxes in the yard,but with bantams you can not control where they choose to nest,any more than you can corral them at night,and tell them where to sleep.


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

what is the predator exactly.

Can you build ways for them to escape? Or make their nest more protected where they are? Like hawk trees


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

You actually can corral them at night and teach them where to sleep. Bantams are no different an standard sized birds, I've had both, they all used the coop at night - not the trees. You have to train them to it, that's all.

If you are going to free range your birds, you are going to have losses. There is absolutely no stopping it. You might have way more losses than someone else, but that is simply due to the predators in the different areas. You can take precautions, but they are not preventions. It is what it is. That's why my most expensive birds don't free range.


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## 1948daydreamer (Sep 9, 2012)

My losses are actually quite minimal. I have only lost one hen since removing before said predators. I am just not used to loosing grown birds. My last loss was one of my favorite hens,who decided to nest about 100 yards outside my fenced property. I think it may have been a dog,from the neighborhood. I live in a very wooded area,and most of the folks around here have dogs,and very few have fences,so the dogs roam around,especially at night. I set the traps every once in a while,but haven't had any takers for some time,so I'm pretty sure it is dogs. 

As for corralling the chickens and training them to go into a coop. They all started out in a coop,and roosted there probably for a month or more when they were young,then they all just move into the tree one night. It happens with all my biddies. I raise them in a nice secure pen,they stay there for a while then they move out. I let the little ones out now for awhile every evening. They scratch around,eat some greens,and at dusk they return to the pen,where they roost at night. But,I know from experience that when they get a little older they will join the others in the tree. Only way I know to get them to stay in a coop is to capture all of them,which I could do,and just imprison them day and night,because if I let them out in the daytime,I would just have to recapture them every night. They are free,and choose to spend the night in a tree. One last thing. Bantams are not like regular chickens. They are game birds,they fly very well,and nest like a wild bird. Most regular laying hens will not sit and hatch eggs,and raise the little ones.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I raised bantams only, I know how they behave. Every single evening my birds returned to their respective pens for the night. I also raised Guineas, they were trained to a coop and returned every night. My hens returned to their pen during the day to lay their eggs, they incubated their eggs in the pens and reared their chicks in the pens. 

Every once in a while one would behave stupid. That errant bird was hunted down and made to return to the coop for the night. The next day that bird was not allowed out with the others. 

If a predator showed up my birds were put in their pens for several days until the predator realized there was not an easy meal in place for them. 

I lost one chicken to a predator in all the years I raised them. And that was the neighbor's cat that did it. The cat never got a chance to return.

Even that poor hen of the neighbor's realized there was safety in my pen since she tried to retreat there when attacked.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Game bird bantams would be like game birds, but most bantams are just miniature chickens. They act like domesticated fowl should - and you can get "wild" breed or "friendly" breeds in both bantam and standard. I have all standards currently because I like a hefty bird, but I've had all sorts and usually my bantams were the ones most likely to come sit in your lap and play stool pigeon. I had more problems with my standards going feral than I ever did with the Banties. The difference is with the breed, not the size  

But yes, the birds roost in the tree because they've decided they like it better than the coop. If you want them in the coop, you put your foot down, gather them up, and put them in the coop. I had roosters last year who roosted in the barn rafters instead of the coop and made a huge mess. Took a week, but most would go back in the coop once they realized an undisturnbed sleep was much better than me dragging them back to the coop every night. The few that didn't were locked in for a day or two.

Anyways, you do with your chickens as you see fit. I let most of mine free range everywhere. I have 120 acres and only 2 of it cleared, the rest is dense thicket. They disappear all day, coming closer and closer home until dusk where they go in the coop and I lock them in until morning. They have a big run that they have access to at all times, once I go out to feed I open the door.
I lost 5 last year in my week: one chick to a hawk, and 4 hens to a fox. I locked them in for a week and the preds moved on, I lost no more all summer until the fox took a rooster in the fall. To free range is to lose chickens, it's the price we pay. My show birds don't get to free range because they're too expensive/hard to find for me to replace. My laying flock does whatever they want unless I start losing them.


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## 1948daydreamer (Sep 9, 2012)

How do you "gather up" or "corral" a dozen chickens that do not want to be caught? Chickens are pretty fast. My chickens are kinda tame,and will eat out of my hand,but will not let me touch them. I can grab one anytime I want,but if I catch one,it will make a lot of racket,and I won't see the rest of them for the rest of the day. They are also what I call "junk chickens",meaning they are mixed breed and the whole flock is worth about $20. They just live here,just like the squirrels,and rabbits,blue jays,cardinals,and crows. They bring me much pleasure just watching them,and I do what I can to protect them,and It may sound strange,but I grieve for them when they get killed,especially the mother hens.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Do you have a pen connected to the coop. One with a top? If you ever treat your birds with veggie scraps or scratch or wild bird seed you start treating them in the pen. Once you have enough of them in the pen, close the door. One by one the others will start hanging at the pen wanting the treats the others have. 

20$ birds are just as valuable to a person, probably more so than the 200$ bird because there is more emotion invested in them. 

I know someone who bought a house. The old owner left his flock of American Games behind. Totally feral. She eventually was able to corral them up and take a lot of the feral out of them. Now they are yard birds who go to roost in her barn every night. The females make their nests in the barn. A couple of them come to her for hand outs. It is possible with effort and training.


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## nj2wv (Aug 27, 2013)

When I need to grab a hen or rooster I wait till dark. A moonless night is best. Just pick them up and put them in a coop. That's the only way I am able to catch the roosters for culling or the flighty hens who escape the coop/run. Another method I use when people wish to purchase hens or roosters is that I get some cracked corn and sprinkle it on the ground near my feet. It distracts them so you are able to pick up the ones the customer wants. It's best to do in the morning when they are hungry and haven't foraged yet. 


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## 1948daydreamer (Sep 9, 2012)

I don't have a problem with the chickens sleeping in the cedar tree. Nothing bothers them at night. The tree is huge,about 40 feet tall,and probably 30 feet across at the bottom,and the tree is close to the house and way inside the fence. My predator problems are in the daytime,when they are foraging in the woods. I do not see the predators,I just notice when one of my chickens is missing,and sometimes if I look around in the woods I can find what is left of my hen. Usually just a pile of feathers. I am pretty sure it is stray dogs,which there are a lot of around here. I go to work every day,and on weekends I spend a lot of time in the woods,watching the chickens. Usually with a 12 gauge shotgun in my hands.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Remove the available food and the predators will wander away to find another source. Right now you've got the table set for them. 

If they laid and roosted in the coop you would not be facing this now. With a secure pen attached to their coop they can be kept up when predators are on the prowl.


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## 1948daydreamer (Sep 9, 2012)

robin416 said:


> when predators are on the prowl.


That would be all of the daylight hours.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

You've chosen to ignore people with a lot of experience in what it takes to keep birds from predation. You seem to think that we live in the burbs and are unaware of predators that roam our land. You would be wrong. I live where wild pigs are a serious problem and Bob cats are known to wander by. 

Every one of us has had to put our birds up with predators have decided they are an easy target. You do what you want.


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## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

Can you set up a hunting camera. You need to know thy enemy to fight thy enemy. 

Once you figure out the predator then you can build safe guards. This doesn't have to be a traditional coop but somewhere they can escape. I promise chickens will try to run to where predators can't get them like coyote huts and hawk trees. This is how most farmers in Texas minimizes their loses and let their birds free range.

The goal of the huts and trees is not a coop it's a escape area.

If your banties nest where they choose you could just make the nest more safe with such techniques like little moveable huts where they want nest. 

The huts are just designed to make it harder on the predator not on the bird


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## 1948daydreamer (Sep 9, 2012)

Hey folks, I started this thread to try to join in the conversation in this forum. No disrespect to any of you folks,but we seem to have a complete failure to communicate. I appreciate your attempts to help but I am raising orphan chicks,not complaining about lost chickens. I have lost about 5 chickens so far since the beginning of this year. Not a bad record. I protect my chickens with whatever means I have,which mostly means killing or relocating the predators,all of the predators,flying,walking,and occasionally crawling,not caging the chickens and waiting for the predators to go away. I have hundreds of acres of what is mostly tropical jungle surrounding my property,and the chickens roam most of it. I don't need a coop for the night. They are safe at night in the tree. I have nesting boxes in several locations on my property,and sometimes they use them,and sometimes they don't. I keep the little orphans safe until they are old enough to join the flock,and then release them. As I said the little ones will return to the pen at night for a few weeks,where they will be shut in and locked for the night,then one night they will just decide to join the others in the tree. I have had chickens for many years,and I enjoy them. They are very well fed,and as my wife says,they are quite spoiled. There is nothing I can do about stray dogs in the woods. I have trapped several,and if they look like they might have a home and an owner I turned them over to the animal control folks,and sometimes when they are in bad condition,I do the humane thing and just shoot them. I also shoot ferrel cats when I manage to trap one of them. Raccoons,possums,foxes,and any other sort of wild critter that gets trapped,I relocate many miles from here.


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## nj2wv (Aug 27, 2013)

Relocating predators just makes them kill your neighbors chickens instead of yours. 


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## pypy_chicks (Mar 14, 2014)

This is precisely why I was saying people don't need to push their OPINIONS on others ... This person is obviously happy with their way of chicken farming so let them do it their way . They didn't ask about info about predators or safety( I personally would have left that bit of info out cause I have seen how some of these people are ) and just said you came by some orphans . Personally I free range most or my flock ( my count is wrong now btw I am at around 60 after a huge sale/giveaway ) and I get them all back to their "run/coop" in about 6 minutes it's not hard to round up chickens which I am not telling you to do I am just saying its possible .this year I only lost 14, 6 of them were cause they got wet from inside the coop on a cold night (problem has been fixed), 4 were killed by neighbors dog all in one day ( problem also fixed ), 1 went missing, 3 were killed by an unknown intruder at night ( was weeks ago and no sign of anything since then ).


Current flock: 111


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## LittleWings (Jul 15, 2013)

1948daydreamer said:


> Hey Folks, I haven't posted in awhile,but I do read some. I have been raising orphan chicks for a few months now. Had a lot of predator problems lately. Mostly killing my mother hens trying to protect the little ones,and also taking the hens off their nests and killing them. I have been setting traps and have thinned down the killers some. Caught two large raccoons,one large possum,and two ferrel cats. Did away with a couple of flying predators too. My latest orphans are from a mother hen that was killed on her nest,and the eggs hatched out the day after she was killed. Spent the best part of the day trying to catch 13 little chicks,that didn't know I was trying to rescue them. Kept them in the house for a couple of weeks,then in a large outside pen. They are about 8 weeks old now,and doing very well,and I am letting them out for a little while now every day,and keeping a close eye on them. Their mother would be very proud if she could see them.


I really don't see a request for advise in your post. It seemed more like an update on whats been going on since you last posted. 
I wish I could free range more but there are stray dogs around that will get them. My flock is mostly in breeding groups and if I lost one bird to a predator it would be tragic. 
It sounds like you are fighting back by trapping *****, possums, dogs and cats. That will be a never ending battle, but if you are OK with a few losses, I say raise them any way you want. Like you say, you have been raising chickens for years. Your $20 flock is probably much happier free ranging and dodging preditors than my breeders are cooped up in..... coops. My coops are large for the number of birds in each one and I feel like I pamper them, but they would still be happier free to rome. (Until the dogs got them)
We all enjoy chickens in different ways. 
Good luck!


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## chickflick (Sep 23, 2012)

Isn't it your responsiblility to provide a safe home for your "pets"? Sorry, it just seems that you are just providing meals for the wildlife. ***** can climb. Think of the terror of being pulled off your nest to be eaten! I let mine free range, but if I see a hawk out on the post, the hens don't come out. Just common sense. They have a big run to be safe in and a safe coop. I just don't get it....


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## 1948daydreamer (Sep 9, 2012)

nj2wv said:


> Relocating predators just makes them kill your neighbors chickens instead of yours.


First off,I don't have any neighbors. Second,I take these animals to the Gulf Hammock Management Area. About 20 miles from here. No houses,no human inhabitants,just miles and miles of free space for them to stay out of trouble. I am not a young man,been around a long time,and I do not understand why someone would assume that I would dump wild chicken killing animals somewhere where they might kill some other person's chickens,which might just get the relocated animals killed. If I were to do that,I might as well just shoot them myself.

Third,Thanks to you later posters for trying to help me out here. I was feeling pretty ganged up on. Coops,runs,cages,none of these things will keep stray dogs from killing chickens in the woods during the day. What I have found that works best is vigilance and a good 12 gauge pump shotgun.

Fourth,and finally,it is time to go outside and let my little orphans out for the evening. And before some of you folks get excited about little chickens running loose,I will be sitting close with the 12 gauge ready.

Chickflic,You think getting pulled off a nest and eaten is bad,consider this. Sitting in a 1 foot square cage your entire life being fed pellets to make you lay more eggs,then when you can no longer lay an egg every day,you are put in a cage,loaded on a truck and sent to have your neck wrung,plucked,disembowled,cut up and put in a cold meat case to be fried or baked and eaten later. I think my chickens are much better off.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

I wouldn't go so far as to say that, chickflick. The OP states he takes the initiative to go head to head with the predators to allow his birds to free range safely. You pen them up and hope the predators leave. Roosting in the tree and having a raccoon climb up is no different than having a raccoon break into your coop.

Unless you keep them under lock and key, you will lose some to predation, that is just the be it and end all of owning chickens. Maybe if the predator numbers are low you might never lose one as it roams, but that is not the norm. It is to be expected.

There is really only two ways to keep chickens from becoming lunch: prevention or elimination. OP chooses elimination, some of us choose prevention, some of us choose both. Whether or not we agree with one another's methods does not mean we are bad chicken keepers.


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## 1948daydreamer (Sep 9, 2012)

chickflick said:


> Isn't it your responsiblility to provide a safe home for your "pets"? Sorry, it just seems that you are just providing meals for the wildlife. ***** can climb. Think of the terror of being pulled off your nest to be eaten! I let mine free range, but if I see a hawk out on the post, the hens don't come out. Just common sense. They have a big run to be safe in and a safe coop. I just don't get it....


Chickflick,***** can climb,but also can possums,cats,and yes even foxes can climb. My hens do not nest in a tree. And I don't know how many times I have mentioned this,but nothing bothers the chickens at night in the tree. The tree is in the yard,I have 2 dogs that will not let wild animals in the yard. About the only time I ever see a hawk,is when it is swooping in to take one of the biddies. They are very fast,and usually get one before I can do anything,but they seldom get away,and when I bury the hawk,I just bury the dead biddie with it. We have only the small Cooper's hawks here,and they do not as a rule bother grown chickens. Again,no disrespect,but your last sentence pretty much sums it up.


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## chickflick (Sep 23, 2012)

Well, you'll do what you think is best. Those of us that free range will take the risk of losing chickens. I wish you the best of luck in trapping the predators. I know our chickens are a lot happier with us than in a cramped cage.


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## 1948daydreamer (Sep 9, 2012)

Hey Folks, Here is my final solution. I had another hen attacked on the nest. She hatched her biddies in one of the nesting boxes in the yard,but then decided to move them into an old dog house out at the edge of the yard. I knew this was a bad idea,and I blame myself for this one. I should have moved her to a safer location,and planned to do so,but she was attacked the very first night in the dog house. She had 8 one day old chicks,and managed to escape with only one. Then when the chick was about 3 weeks old the wife's Chiuaua(little dog) killed it. Last week I had 11 more new biddies hatch out. I built a new chicken pen that first day 20 ft. by 10 ft. and caught Mama and the babies and put them in there. 10 of them are doing great,but one was born deformed and I had to kill it. I also bought a wildlife camera,as suggested by someone here,and have set it every night. So far only pictures are of my own dogs(and I know they are not the killers),my chickens,and myself walking out to check the camera. All of these pictures are in the daytime. Nothing at night,so whatever is doing the killing has not been around since the last incident about 3 weeks ago. As for the original 13 orphans,I killed one accidentally myself,two just disappeared,the little dog killed one,and I gave four to a friend. The remaining five are almost fully grown now and are doing fine,roosting in the tree with the rest of the flock. All five are hens and will be laying,and hatching out their own little ones by fall. I plan to build 2 more pens to raise the little ones in. They are sturdily built,covered with 1 inch chicken wire,and then covered over that with 2X4 welded wire,buried about 6 inches in the ground,with metal roofs. Nothing should be able to get them in there. Haven't seen any predators of any kind in about 3 weeks now. Sorry for the long post.


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