# Hatchery chickens



## LittleWings (Jul 15, 2013)

https://www.mercyforanimals.org/hatchery/

I want to share this article about hatchery chickens. This is why I have such a big problem with hatchery birds. I understand buying hatchery (which is where most feed stores get theirs) if you can't find them from a local breeder but when you do, just know what happens to the males. Most of the chickens they are talking about in the video are for egg laying and roosters don't lay eggs so they are killed. I grew up eating store bought eggs and have been part of the problem myself by doing that, but now I know and can't justify buying them any more.

Its not just egg chickens though. All of the breeds that you order those pullets from have male and female chicks. For almost every pullet you buy, a male gets killed.

Local breeders USUALLY don't kill the males, they either re-home, sell or eat them when older. Local breeders usually have much better quality birds than the hatcheries. Especially rare breeds!

I am certainly not trying to put anyone down for buying from a hatchery. Just know what is going on when you do.

Buy local and support small business in your community!!


----------



## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

I would still buy from a hatchery after that video for day old chicks because I'm really screwed if I get a rooster. Like massive city fines and they treat me like I was using em for cock fights when all I did was get a rooster by accident.

It's a nightmare unless you have school aged children. Then hatching eggs is a 4-H project and it's lesson in science. All the sudden roosters happen naturally with hatching eggs and science teachers don't run cock fights. But roosters can't happen otherwise...

*However*, I am getting my laying hens from a nice npip breeder for started pullets if this redeems me in any way. I'm in it for the vaccines and not having to deal with baby chicks.


----------



## LittleWings (Jul 15, 2013)

Lol. No reedeming needed. I understand not being able to have roos and in reality, it is the only way to produce enough chickens to fill the demand for eggs and meat. I have bought plenty of chicks from the feed stores knowing where they come from but am making a concerted effort to buy from breeders and locals now.

I don't have kids in school anymore but it seems they would have a plan for dealing with the chicks they hatch. That should be part of the lesson.

Its good you are getting your pullets from a breeder. I hope you are pleased with them. 

Its all about money to the hatcheries and breeders are usually in it for the hobby not really profits. Hatcheries mislead people just to sell chicks knowing they are being deceptive. Like with the chickens they sell as Ameraucanas. They have the market so flooded with them that people think that's what one is supposed to look like. I have trouble selling my purebreds because people think I'M wrong because mine don't look like the hatchery _Americanas_. Plus the ones at the feed store are $2.50 ea.

There is a place for hatchery birds. I would just like to see more people try other sources first before buying from hatcheries for their backyard chicken flocks.


----------



## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

LittleWings said:


> Lol. No reedeming needed. I understand not being able to have roos and in reality, it is the only way to produce enough chickens to fill the demand for eggs and meat. I have bought plenty of chicks from the feed stores knowing where they come from but am making a concerted effort to buy from breeders and locals now.
> 
> I don't have kids in school anymore but it seems they would have a plan for dealing with the chicks they hatch. That should be part of the lesson.
> 
> ...


Well they get good new homes or become dinner like all other chickens but still. mostly dinner, but the kids don't know that part.

Unless there are kids, the public notion is roos cannot happen unless intended and going to be used for cock fighting. It's stupid but sometimes people just don't know where their food comes from. Also unless it's in a school, a roo is a noise violation.

There's a bunch of little restrictions but no broad ones on chickens in my area. Most regarding waste disposal, sanitation, selling of graded eggs, smell, and rooster noises. Which is what limits me to 4.

For waste disposal either compost or throw away.

For sanitation and smell, coops must be kept in a clean manner and free of smell. If not you have to go to a class and Texas A&M and you get a fine.

If selling graded eggs, you have to pay a sales tax. This does not go for ungraded

Roosters are just not allowed unless decrowed and there are other little loop holes but it's hard to get to (breeder and 4-H project). Cock fighting is very illegal and if suspected all birds will be confiscated, put down and you will be charged with a felony. So roosters aren't really worth it unless it's an obvious 4-H or breeding project.


----------



## LittleWings (Jul 15, 2013)

Would "Deep litter" be considered a "clean manner"? Is this your city or HOA restrictions? I have never heard of anyone getting sniff tested.


----------



## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

LittleWings said:


> Would "Deep litter" be considered a "clean manner"? Is this your city or HOA restrictions? I have never heard of anyone getting sniff tested.


Depends on the neighbor mostly. If they call, the city will have a code inspector that will come out to make sure it isn't someone being spiteful.

If found smelly, then you must pay a fine and take a chicken coop sanitation workshop from the poultry science department at Texas a&m.

This doesn't happen often.

Most punishments in Texas involve classes and education. It's viewed that someone did stupid stuff because they didn't know better....


----------



## LittleWings (Jul 15, 2013)

I guess thats good. I wouldn't want to live right next door to a smelly, noisey chicken coop. I live in the city but I don't have close neighbors. In Houston, if you are more than 150' from a home you can have anything you want up to 65 chickens (unless thats changed). I'm sure if you live close to someone and they call about a nasty coop, the city would come out. 
I use deep litter and feed fermented feed so my coop smells pretty good.


----------



## Jim (Sep 26, 2012)

I agree LW, we do order some pullets from hatchery this time of year for those that just cannot have roosters. I prefer to hatch and sell st run, and breed mostly duel purpose birds, for the very reason you mention. Even if a roo ends up on the table, at least it had something of a life. Many of customers that can have roosters, or who don't mind butchering their own bird, sign up for one of my free workshops to learn hands on, how to backyard process! Plus, Strt run birds are always cheaper!


Jim


----------



## MelTx (Jan 28, 2014)

I just rewatched the Dirty Jobs episode about chick sexing in McMurray hatchery. After you get past the hilarity of Mike Rowe, you really see how the chicks are handled, sorted, ect. I can see why some people I've seen on other boards have complained about getting sick or lame chicks from this hatchery. 

They are ROUGH with those chicks. Also I see why some people ordering pullets end up with a bunch of wrongly sexed Roos. They just glance and toss for the breeds that are wing sexed and vent sexing wasn't much better. I can see how they can screw up.

That's why I'm going an hour and half out of town to get chicks from Jim. He has the breed I want at the age I need them and since I live in a city with anti-rooster laws, he's willing to grow mine out to tell the sex. So I don't mind paying a little more and driving for exactly the breed/age and healthy chicks I want. 

Plus Jim is willing to teach me and I most defiantly want to learn while I'm there! 


Sent from my iPad using Chicken Forum


----------



## hellofromtexas (Feb 16, 2014)

MelTx said:


> I just rewatched the Dirty Jobs episode about chick sexing in McMurray hatchery. After you get past the hilarity of Mike Rowe, you really see how the chicks are handled, sorted, ect. I can see why some people I've seen on other boards have complained about getting sick or lame chicks from this hatchery.
> 
> They are ROUGH with those chicks. Also I see why some people ordering pullets end up with a bunch of wrongly sexed Roos. They just glance and toss for the breeds that are wing sexed and vent sexing wasn't much better. I can see how they can screw up.
> 
> ...


Of course they're rough, they are trying to get a job done as fast as possible and don't live with the end result. Also when it's a split second, I can see how someone tosses a cockerel in a pullet bin by accident. I understand they are a business and with hundred of thousands a day they need to be quick.

Either I'd pick mine up from Ideal Poultry in Cameron, TX or I go to local farmer. But, I really can't have roos and they are the same distance.


----------



## Jim (Sep 26, 2012)

I have seen those sorting shows, It is like they are sorting through oranges! 


Jim


----------



## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

LittleWings said:


> https://www.mercyforanimals.org/hatchery/
> 
> I want to share this article about hatchery chickens. This is why I have such a big problem with hatchery birds. I understand buying hatchery (which is where most feed stores get theirs) if you can't find them from a local breeder but when you do, just know what happens to the males. Most of the chickens they are talking about in the video are for egg laying and roosters don't lay eggs so they are killed. I grew up eating store bought eggs and have been part of the problem myself by doing that, but now I know and can't justify buying them any more.
> 
> ...


From the link you provided.
Driven by consumer demand, the egg industry will continue to exploit, abuse, and kill day-old animals as long as doing so remains profitable. Empowered consumers can put their ethics on the table by choosing kindness over cruelty at each meal by adopting an animal-friendly vegan diet.

If you think local breeders don't cull/kill rooster you are living in denial .
The rarer the bred will get more culls in the quest to have the perfect looking bird so they can win awards for their birds.


----------



## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

When breeding and culling for buckeyes, it is important to watch for black surface feathers in the breast and in the thighs. It is also important for the breed to carry their chest somewhat upright like that of a cornish. These are a few of the traits that need to be taken into consideration along with the width/length of the specimen. To show an example, attached is a picture of a bird that does not have black surface feathers in either the breast or thighs. This trait can also been observed in the other pictures I've posted.

copied from

http://www.chickenforum.com/f31/buckeye-chickens-277/index7.html post #61


----------



## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

Roosters hatch at the same rate as hens... to think breeders don't have ways of getting rid of the excess is a bit naive, especially ones that can be sexed at hatch. I see it all the time, listings for just pullets... as no one wants roosters especially egg laying breeds or sex links. They have no purpose -- all they do is eat money until you figure something to do with them and trust me there aren't people knocking down doors to get roosters! Personally we eat our larger dual purpose roos, at our own expense -- as they cost more to raise than a Cornish Cross b far and don't produce nearly as much meat but our laying roosters? I have been raising them to be pigeon size before slaughtering them for the raw pet food market. I don't see how this is any better morally or ethically. I do it because it gives me some of the money I spent on them back. In the end there's no way of getting around the fact behind every hen there once was a rooster. However the large hatcheries in Germany have stared culling roosters while they're still in the egg - not eve born yet. New technology.. http://www.thepoultrysite.com/poultrynews/34741/germany-aims-for-chicken-sexing-in-the-egg-by-2016/


----------



## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Here's an article I got from World Poultry:

German parliament rejects male chick cull ban

Apr 6, 2016 1855 1

The German parliament has voted down the proposed ban on culling male chicks, instead opting to stick with the voluntary agreement to end the practice when it becomes commercially viable.

German parliament rejects male chick cull ban

The country's ministry for agriculture has made €3 million (£2.4m) available to research ways to make in-ovo chick sexing commercially viable, with a view to ending the culling of male chicks by 2017.

Outright ban on culling rejected

But the Green Party introduced a bill, which was voted down at the end of March, that would have seen an outright ban put in place, following a transitional period.

Dieter Stier, of Germany's ruling Christian Democratic Union, warned such a ban would simply export animal production to another country, adding: "Animal well-being cannot be achieved using the sledgehammer approach, but only in accordance with the livestock owners."

Also interesting: End sought to male chick killings in France

An end to the practice of killing male layer chicks in hatcheries is being sought by a coalition of 36 members of parliament from all sides of the French government.

Animal welfare clause in German law

Much of the debate rests around a clause in German law that states animals must only be killed for a "useful" reason. Animal rights groups argue culling male chicks is not permissible under this clause.

"No one, including the industry, actually wants to have to kill healthy male one-day chicks," says Maria-Elisabeth Krautwald-Junghanns, a veterinarian and researcher at Leipzig University. She is looking for ways to potentially determine the sex of a chicken embryo even before it is hatched. She hopes her research will mean that in the future, only female embryos will be incubated.

[Author: Jake Davies] 
****************************************************

I don't understand why male chicks arent' grown out and processed. With so many people on food stamps, etc, . And can there be a profitable way to do it.


----------



## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

seminolewind said:


> I don't understand why male chicks arent' grown out and processed. With so many people on food stamps, etc, . And can there be a profitable way to do it.


The way I understand it is profit, and many of those in business compromise standards in their quest for profit. If cockerels are regarded as not profitable they will continue to let them fall off the assembly line and die of cold or get stomped on. Hi-Line hatchery was busted for that some years ago. They take all the life out of their "product" by listing their breeds as code numbers and not actual breeds if you see a catalog.

In regard to private breeders, there's heavy culling going on while they achieve the standard like a few on this thread mentioned. Some are more humane than others just as some hatcheries are better than others in their methods. Culling is a part of raising any livestock animals, but even as a kid when I would stew about culling, I understood mercy and preventing suffrage was the highest priority.


----------



## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

OMG!The hatcheries just let day olds fall to the floor and suffer chills or get stepped on?I never heard that and the picture in my mind is horrifying.I looked at my babies and cannot imagine the pain and suffering hatchery chicks endure.


----------



## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Some may, don't accuse all based on the actions of one.
mercyforanimals .They like to shock and awe you to convince you to be vegan.

The goal of our education department is to prevent cruelty by inspiring more people to move towards vegan eating. We show the public the harsh reality of factory farms to inspire them to care about farmed animals. And we give them the tools they need to make compassionate food choices.
https://www.mercyforanimals.org/education


----------



## MikeA_15 (Feb 21, 2016)

chickenqueen said:


> OMG!The hatcheries just let day olds fall to the floor and suffer chills or get stepped on?I never heard that and the picture in my mind is horrifying.I looked at my babies and cannot imagine the pain and suffering hatchery chicks endure.


It has been a practice, but not necessarily all hatcheries. When the mind convinces itself a living thing is product, or not capable of feeling or thought, it is undeserving of compassion. It never surprises me to see the lengths humans will go to BS themselves.


----------



## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

It's too bad that wastefulness includes animals. I believe chicks are born at a 50/50 male/female ratio. They should take the price of meat birds and sell multi breed roo meat packages for 30/50% less. Or like get 50 meat birds or 100 multi breed roos for the same price. I think Europe is further along in the department of killing male chicks because they're male. 

Believe it or not, the restaurant chain that will be first to become cage free will be Taco Bell! 

I used to be pro dog-adoption from rescues and anti purebreds. But as life goes on I (we) learn a few things and I can say now that I am pro dog breeder. People should put their money on others that do right by animals. If rescues keep adopting dogs out, people will always support crappy dog ownership and unwanted dogs. I can't see spending money supporting that, although I sent hundreds of $$ to the Hurricane Katrina fund. If I take my money and support responsible dog breeding, that's what I believe in. Breeders that space pregnancies, test for genetics, some have waiting lists, they contract out that the puppies will not be bred by non professionals, and applications, and health guarantees if you follow proper care like immunizations, neutering, etc. People that continue to adopt from shelters are actually supporting those who do not care for their dogs and a method for rehoming them. It may sound harsh, but we need a system that reduces abused animals or unwanted animals. Rant over !


----------

