# Coroza? ???



## Maryellen

She has been in the house for almost two weeks. Swollen under one eye. Eating drinking fine. I'm giving tylan 50 as I was told it was a cold. Now I'm told it's coroza and my whole flocks could get it????

Her head smells a bit too

I keep the water and food bowls clean. Coop cleaned every day literally, pen cleaned on Saturdays. I'm at a loss here as to how this happened.

Help


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## Maryellen

Omg I just read I have to kill my whole flock she was with????


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## robin416

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/poultry/infectious_coryza/overview_of_infectious_coryza_in_chickens.html

Before you do anything I would contact the state vet. Find out what their protocols are for testing. This is one of those situations that you really don't know what is going on but you should know before doing more than you have already.


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## Maryellen

I'm trying to get into my chicken vet. Luckily the link shows my other flock shoukd be safe as long as they don't drink same water which they don't as I have 2 sep coops. She has no pus,no sneezing,no wheezing, no shaking of head, no symptoms except the swollen lump under her eye. I'm so upset. I'm freaking anal with the coops being clean. I'm out every morning before work and when I get home keeping the cops clean. (Hobbling out with a torn meniscus as well)..
I prided myself on how clean and healthy my chickens were. Now this. Everyone is saying it's possible the wild birds were the culprit if it's coroza. I was going to let a friend have my legbar roo so I could move my other coop birds over to the new coop so I coukd put the bredas in their own coop, the breeder I got the bredas from is at the Knoxville show right now and she was going to see if she could find me a breda roo ,and she had 2 more breda hens for me. I was going to have a coop for just the bredas since they were on the rare list to hopefully try to have a nice flock


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## Maryellen

Now none of my birds can go anywhere and I can't move birds to new coop


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## robin416

I've had one with a swollen sinus that was related to infection probably from a foreign body. My vet did surgery to remove the solids. She was not contagious, never was. That's why I'm saying you need more info before totally freaking out.

I don't think your vet can do any real test to determine what is going on with her. That's why I said call the state.


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## Maryellen

I'm hoping the vet can cut the swollen area to see if it's from dirt.


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## dawg53

Wild birds that have coryza are usually too sick to fly. Most likely it spread from showing birds by the breeder. A foul odor from the head area is a telltale sign of coryza. If I were you, I'd cull and bury her deep far away from your coops or incinerate her. You'll be glad you did.
Scroll down to Infectious Coryza in this link:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044


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## Maryellen

So the 2 new bredas I just got in October could have been carriers?? 
They were fine,no snot or wheezing,coughing etc. Omg


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## Maryellen

I'll smell her head again when I get home from work


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## Maryellen

I'm so upset right now


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## Maryellen

I have albon at home. Dawg53 should I treat my coop she came out of with albon?or is it useless?She has been in my house for just about 2 weeks now


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## Maryellen

Everything im reading is saying that my flock since exposed will now be carriers


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## Maryellen

I'm beyond upset


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## dawg53

All I can tell you is that you'll need to keep a close eye on the rest of your flock for coryza symptoms. Sometimes infected birds can have MG along with coryza. The tylan would treat MG. Albon will treat coryza in combination with the tylan. The problem is that these drugs only treat, none of them will cure the disease(s) and birds are carriers for life. Stress will set off symptoms requiring ongoing treatment. Sulfa drugs are either in powder or liquid form, mixed in water. Sick birds drink very little if at all. Sulfa drugs also have varying egg withdrawal periods. 
If you wish to get your sick bird checked out by a vet, by all means do so.


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## robin416

Once again, call the state. They are the only ones that can give you the information you need. Freaking out, worrying about what may or may not be is not going to answer your questions.


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## Maryellen

I'm calm now. Just upset. I left a message with the state vet in trenton.


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## dawg53

You can also contact your nearest agricultural extension office as another option. Be aware if officials get involved they may require testing which could be bloodwork or even necropsy. Just giving you a heads up to be prepared.


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## Maryellen

Thank you sooo much for all your info, I really appreciate it.


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## seminole wind

Who were your last birds in? When was this sick one added? How long ago were birds added?
I read they can test for it with live bird blood. Maybe your vet can draw blood to send to a lab.

I read the incubation period is 1-3 days. Does that mean that a bird is symptomatic in 1-3 days after exposure?

Maryellen, I know what beyond upset is. My 2nd year of owning chickens I broke my own rule and added a pullet from a breeder. She introduced Marek's to my flock. I didn't know until a year later when I hatched 10 chicks and at 6 weeks they got leg paralysis one by one until all 10 were gone. I don't know what the word is for beyond upset, but it feels horrible. My chickens are carriers for life. I can't even let a hen sit on eggs and hatch them. I can't give birds away. If I get chicks they have to be vaccinated and quarantined. I've buried so many chickens, I worry I'll dig in a "taken" spot when I bury another. 
We're all here for you.


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## seminole wind

Maryellen said:


> I'm trying to get into my chicken vet. Luckily the link shows my other flock shoukd be safe as long as they don't drink same water which they don't as I have 2 sep coops. She has no pus,no sneezing,no wheezing, no shaking of head, no symptoms except the swollen lump under her eye. I'm so upset. I'm freaking anal with the coops being clean. I'm out every morning before work and when I get home keeping the cops clean. (Hobbling out with a torn meniscus as well)..
> I prided myself on how clean and healthy my chickens were. Now this. Everyone is saying it's possible the wild birds were the culprit if it's coroza. I was going to let a friend have my legbar roo so I could move my other coop birds over to the new coop so I coukd put the bredas in their own coop, the breeder I got the bredas from is at the Knoxville show right now and she was going to see if she could find me a breda roo ,and she had 2 more breda hens for me. I was going to have a coop for just the bredas since they were on the rare list to hopefully try to have a nice flock


So who told you they have coryza? How long ago did you get your last birds?

Now you know it can be spread by droplet and contact, be careful to not cross contaminate.

If your hen only has a swelling under her eye, and still eats and drinks, how sick is she?


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## Maryellen

The last birds I brought in were the 2 bredas on Oct 15. I saw no sneezing snot sniffling nothing that would have said they were sick. They both were healthy, no parasites. I bathed both of them,dusted them before putting them with my flock. I give fresh water every 2 days as I have a 5 gal metal water can. .
My olive egger who has the lump under her eye is eating, drinking, cackling up a storm being pissed she is inside. She is pooping normal, no weird poops, she eats everything I put In her cage , she just has a hard time seeing as the lump is pushing up against her eyelid. She is walking and scratching in her cage . Not acting sick at all. .
A few people said it was a simple sinus infection as they said if it was coroza she wouldn't be eating etc. A few said it was coroza. 
None of the other s are showing any signs of the symptoms I read about.


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## Maryellen

My hen who has the lump under her eye I got 2 years ago. So she wasn't sick until 2 weeks ago when I noticed the lump under her eye,it was small so I pulled her in my house. She is getting tylan, albon,oxytetracline, and terramycin eye ointment, prednisone.


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## Maryellen

And some told me to cut and Lance under her eye and remove the hard pus.


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## robin416

That is a very vascular area, if you cut it under home conditions she could bleed out very quickly. My vet was worried my hen was going to bleed out under a surgical conditions when she opened up the sinus.


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## dawg53

Here's Youtube video of the surgery. I was going to recommend Bloodstop powder or styptic sticks but the incision is too close to the eye. I'd worry that the powder would get in the birds eye and possibly cause eye loss. Styptic sticks might work if you use enough of them. The video is graphic.


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## seminole wind

If it's vascular, I would not cut into it. Is it possible that she has a tumor? Or growth? I could be very wrong because respiratory is not my strong point, but sick chickens act sick! No appetite, fluffed up, not liking to move. Unless you have an educated exam of the hen, can trace her back to who joined your group within the past week or 2, any others symptomatic. I had a rooster I kept because he had a really really messed up eye. It did get bigger over his 6 years. Don't waste time being upset until you have reason to be upset.


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## robin416

This happened so many years ago with the one hen that I might not be remembering correctly what the vet told me after the surgery. But if I remember right she said when she removed the solid plug that's when the bleeding happened and when she got so concerned about stopping it fast enough.


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## Maryellen

I won't do home surgery . That's too crazy lol. The hen got sick 2 weeks ago with the lump under her eye. I've had her for 2 years. The 2 bredas I got on Oct 15 were the only new hens I recently got. They were not sick . This hen is eating and drinking and doing normal chicken stuff, no lethargic, no fluffed up feathers, she is VERY active and isn't happy to be locked up and fights me every time I give her her meds. She isn't acting sick at all its weird.


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## robin416

And it's sounding more and more like a sinus infection. The problem will be, will your vet be willing to do the surgery to remove the plug?


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## Maryellen

I have no clue.


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## seminole wind

I don't know how you came up with Coryza, but it may not be . I mean if it were -in my opinion, the bird would act sick and be listless, there would most likely be more than one, and it would have happened within a few weeks of getting new birds who were carriers. So IMO it just doesn't fit. I think the best you can do is antibiotics, and maybe very warm compresses a few times a day with 8oz of water and 1/2 tsp of salt or just a pinch of salt. Or very warm water with borax. Borax is good for eye things and if you can't find it , look in the bug killer area because people use it for ants . 

Are you going to be getting any Cuckoo Breda's? I read up on them and I like.


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## seminole wind

Cleanliness has nothing to do with some of these ailments.


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## dawg53

Maryellen had mentioned a foul odor around the head area which is typical for coryza. Another possibility could be the upper form of infectious sinusitis. It can be treated by injecting tylan 50 into the swollen sinus cavity.


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## Maryellen

When I smelled her head she was in her cage,and there was poop in the cage was getting ready to clean. 
I have tylan 50 so I put it in her nasal cavity?


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## Maryellen

Squirt her nose?


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## Maryellen

Her nostril is closed I'm trying to get the hard gunk off the bottom of her nostril


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## Maryellen

I'm using vet rx with a q tip to try to loosen the stuff.


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## Maryellen

Smelled her head now, she smells like a chicken and no odor . I'm using peroxide to loosen up the hard stuff or her nostril hoping to be able to get it off later today . She keeps fighting me even when wrapped in a towel, pecked me when I try so we play how many times she pecks my hand while I'm workibg on her nose.


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## robin416

Put a little ointment on it to soften, then remove what you can mechanically.

If she has a solid plug in that sinus using the Tylan flush will not clear that. It's like bumble, unless you get that plug out she will never be normal.


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## seminole wind

Is her nostril possibly packed with feed? Or drainage? Or both?

I had one with blocked nostrils and LSS, it turned out to be impacted feed. I tried softening it but it wouldn't budge. One day I just stuck it with a pin and pulled it out. Her nostril was soooo big.


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## robin416

I did have one do that but her sinus was never affected.


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## Maryellen

I'm using peroxide to soften it, I keep picking at it. She is fighting me every time . Even with 4 hands she is very strong. I'm giving her a break for a bit and will attack it again. Hmmm I might have a safety pin here.if she would stop fighting me I coukd get it out. She is definitely eating good that's for sure


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## Maryellen

She flew out of the towel on my kitchen table pecked the cat and started cackling


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## Maryellen

The nostril has hard stuff on it, I'm trying to soften the corner so I can pull it off


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## casportpony

I did this surgery day before yesterday on my friend's peahen.

























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## Maryellen

Can you come over and do this??? Lol. The only difference is my hens is right under her eye. I got a small opening the size of a grain of sea salt open on her nostril..


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## Maryellen

How did you do that and keep the bird not moving????


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## casportpony

Maryellen said:


> Can you come over and do this??? Lol. The only difference is my hens is right under her eye. I got a small opening the size of a grain of sea salt open on her nostril..


Can you post some really clear close-ups of the are?

Here is one that someone else did, and in this you can see that they carefully sliced just the skin. See the green arrow? I suspect that is a pretty good sized vein, so probable an area to avoid.








And here is another:
http://www.connerhills.com/articles2

.


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## casportpony

Maryellen said:


> How did you do that and keep the bird not moving????


Helps to have two people.

.


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## casportpony

If the swelling is still soft you might be able to "milk" it out without cutting.

.


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## Maryellen

The swelling is hard, it isn't soft at all.


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## Maryellen

I'll take pics tomorrow after work. I worked on her nostril a few times tonight and got a tiny bit of the stuff loose and out. She kept fighting me the whole time even though she was wrapped up in a towel.


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## Maryellen

I saw your pics on your website thank you. Did the hen squirm when you sliced it? My hen won't stay still even with both of us holding her.


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## Maryellen

Her nostril is still closed though,so if I can get the pus out of the lump how do I get her nostril opened?


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## seminole wind

You could try tweezers on the blockage. Yes they squirm. Mine would hold her breath and turn purple. See if you can get a bit under an edge and flick it out or pry it out.

Kathy, that's pretty interesting that a hen had a bumble under her eye.


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## dawg53

Try warm water using an eyedropper to loosen up the debris in her nostril. Then alternate with hydrogen peroxide. A toothpick might help loosen it initially. I ended up using a diaper pin that I had laying around in the shed. The hen somehow inhaled a feed particle in her nostril and eventually got clogged with debris mainly from dust bathing. I had the same thing happen to another hen where the feed particle worked its way into the sinus cavity on the side of her face. It looked like a white zit and I used a razor blade to make a small slice easily removing the particle. The particle was encapsulated with the cheesy looking infection you typically see. Here's a link with pics regarding clogged nostril:
http://www.browneggblueegg.com/Article/PluggedNare/PluggedNare.html


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## Maryellen

I tried the needle she kept hitting it so I went to a toothpick. I used peroxide and a bit of water and vet rx and got a bit loosened. I'll work on it again tonight after work and see if my husband can try a bit today as he is home.


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## dawg53

For nasal flush, here's Peter Brown's recommendation how to do it, scroll down:
http://www.browneggblueegg.com/Article/NasalFlush/NasalFlush.html


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## dawg53

Maryellen said:


> I tried the needle she kept hitting it so I went to a toothpick. I used peroxide and a bit of water and vet rx and got a bit loosened. I'll work on it again tonight after work and see if my husband can try a bit today as he is home.


Thumbs up! It'll eventually open up for you...and her


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## casportpony

Maryellen said:


> Her nostril is still closed though,so if I can get the pus out of the lump how do I get her nostril opened?


Check her choanal slit for pus.


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## casportpony

Removing pus without surgery works sometimes:


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## chickenqueen

When my rooster had an ear infection,I had to clean lots of gunk out of his ears.To get down in there and bring the gunk out ,I fashioned a little loop with the wire in a bread tie.It has some strength to break through hard stuff,the loop grabs the gunk and pulls it out and there is no sharp point like there is w/ a needle/toothpick.You can make the loop as big or little as needed,you can put a little muscle into it,and you don't have to worry about poking her nostril w/ a sharp point.It is fashioned like the instrument doctors use to remove ear wax.Wish I could draw you a little picture of what I'm talking about but that is beyond my capabilities.I have even made them for my own ears.It's a neat little tool you make w/ "garbage" and is disposable when you're done.Make sure you remove the plastic and use only the wire.Good luck!


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## dawg53

CQ, I used Q-tips in the ears after flushing w/ peroxide. I had to remove a little cotton off the tip though to get it into the ear canal. 
The wire twist tie sounds like a good idea.


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## seminole wind

dawg53 said:


> Thumbs up! It'll eventually open up for you...and her


And not be Coryza


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## nannypattyrn

CQ, make one and take a picture of it.


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## Maryellen

IL get better pics tonight when I get home when I work on her nose again


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## Maryellen

That video is for worms in eyes


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## Maryellen

I can't get good pics she doesn't sit still


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## Maryellen

I need a second set of hands to keep her still and I don't have anyone to help .I'm going to call the vet to see if they can remove it


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## casportpony

Maryellen said:


> I need a second set of hands to keep her still and I don't have anyone to help .I'm going to call the vet to see if they can remove it


A vet would be the best option.

What is this spot?


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## casportpony

Maryellen said:


> That video is for worms in eyes


That's what they said... I posted it because it shows how the pus can be "milked" out if it isn't too hard.

.


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## casportpony

If you want to see actual eyeworms:
http://www.chickenforum.com/f12/wormers-10443/index22.html#post129059

Be warned, it's a nasty video, so if a video of wiggly worms in chicken eyes will bother you, don't look.

.


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## Maryellen

That is a crease in the lump amd some feathers.The lump is getting bigger,the nostril I got another small section of hard stuff out. M calling my vet tomortow to see if they can get her nostril out and the lump cut.


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## Maryellen

Here is a better shot


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## dawg53

The title of the Youtube video in post #62 is wrong. It has nothing to do with eyeworms. The Youtube video in Kathy's link, post #220 is the real deal...poultry eyeworms oxyspirura mansoni.
There's an easier way to kill them rather than what that guy is doing in the video.
Dont worry Maryellen, you're not dealing with eyeworms. 
Personally, I'd rather deal with eyeworms than a respiratory disease/sinusitis.


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## chickenqueen

nannypattyrn said:


> CQ, make one and take a picture of it.


D'uh-didn't think of making one and taking a picture.So here it is....You can make it really small and the loop won't poke flesh and will grab the gunk and pull it out.


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## Maryellen

Chicken vet tonight 5pm. Whew


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## seminole wind

Oh good. Can't wait to see what it is. Hopefully it's a simple thing like a bumble. 

It's pretty nice the way chickens handle infection sometimes. They just kindof form a ball.


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## Maryellen

I kept picking at her nostril,got another small piece out but I can't get the rest out, so we are now sitting at the vets... I'm unsure on cutting it myself and don't want to mess up


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## Maryellen

Vet is cutting open the lump now


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## robin416

Pulling for a great outcome.


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## casportpony

Maryellen said:


> Vet is cutting open the lump now


Pictures?

.


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## Maryellen

They won't let me in the operating room. If I was at my other vet I coukd have watched. This vet won't let me, so I'm sitting here waiting.


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## Maryellen

How long did it take for you to cut and remove the one on the peahen?


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## casportpony

Maryellen said:


> They won't let me in the operating room. If I was at my other vet I coukd have watched. This vet won't let me, so I'm sitting here waiting.


Darn! I was hoping that you would be able to report how they did it. Also curious to know if they used any lidocaine and what antibiotics they will recommend (if any).

.


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## casportpony

Maryellen said:


> How long did it take for you to cut and remove the one on the peahen?


ten minutes maybe? but her's was easy. The peahen I did for the same person back in 2012 had pus all over the sinus cavity, so that look quite a bit longer to get out.

Your hen has pus in the nostril, which means it's way more involved than the hen I did. Still doable, but not a 10 minute job.


.


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## Maryellen

Vet just came in, said it was sinus infection, she removed all stuff,there was another lump forming under the other one,and cleared her nostril too. I'm just waiting for them to release her to go home.i have to do warm compresses,keep the wound clean,she got a shot of painkiller to last a few days, and I'm getting antibiotics too.


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## casportpony

Fingers crossed for you and your hen! Be sure to ask lots of questions when they're done. Just had a thought... ask them to comfirm that her ear is or is not involved. Thought of that because I read just this:
http://www.chickenwhisperermagazine.com/articles/ear-canker

.


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## casportpony

Maryellen said:


> Vet just came in, said it was sinus infection, she removed all stuff,there was another lump forming under the other one,and cleared her nostril too. I'm just waiting for them to release her to go home.i have to do warm compresses,keep the wound clean,she got a shot of painkiller to last a few days, and I'm getting antibiotics too.


Glad you were able to have them do it!

.


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## robin416

If you're still there asking about a steroid to get swelling down and keep it down is not a bad idea. Mine was on a pred suspension right after her surgery to keep the swelling at bay.


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## Maryellen

They said it was all cheesy puss that they took out. I have prednisone at home but will ask for a small bottle. Her lump is swollen from all the gunk,they said it will deflate too . It's all cleaned out


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## Maryellen

Anti inflammatory given for the next 10 days bottle


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## robin416

You would have had no chance of getting all of that out yourself. It's not like a bumble infection where there isn't a bunch of very sensitive, important nerves and blood flow. Your vet visit was absolutely the right thing for both of you.

Just remember, before getting yourself all knotted up get yourself here first. You now know from first hand experience that is not always what others declare it is. That other problems can and do occur that is not a threat to the whole flock.


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## Maryellen

Yeah that's for sure, the vet and tech said there was alot to clean out, she was working on her for a half hour cleaning her out in surgery. She took her in at 530 and released her to me at 7pm.. they wanted to make sure they got it all and she recovered from the anesthesia. I go back in 7 days for a recheck. They cut her open in 2 spots to clean out both bumps. She is draining blood and fluid as they cleaned her really good. Her skin is flapping now. She is resting and started eating and drinking right away .


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## robin416

To me it's simply amazing how quickly they come out of something like that. I really believe they have some hidden anesthesia hidden somewhere within their bodies and when they need it they release some. 

I wish there was a way to keep that from happening but I think some are just prone to sinus infections just like some humans are. I only had one like that out of hundreds of birds and she wasn't even mine when hers developed.


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## Maryellen

Here is the after pic.


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## casportpony

She looks much better!

.


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## seminole wind

Maryellen-YEAH!!!!!!!!! no Coryza. I'm glad we helped you through this and it was a good outcome.


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## Maryellen

I asked the vet if she thought it was the coroza and she said no, she said since Henrietta is older she is more susceptible to getting sick. I asked if it was food or dirt that got in her nose she said there was nothing in there,she said her mouth was clean inside,no mass or lesions as she looked in her mouth area too


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## Maryellen

The vet left the incisions open she said they would drain.last night they drained. This morning they are already closing so I gotta call today . She said to use warm compresses if the hen would let me, Henrietta won't let me touch them which is understandable as they are sore.now I will probably have to bring her back to have drains put in.im calling today to see whst they say


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## robin416

Hang on tight to that vet! She sounds awesome. 

She does need to know they live to a ripe old age. Ten years is getting to be more and more common now. In part because we know so much more about them but add in vets like yours we can have them for far more than the five or six years.


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## chickenqueen

A chicken can live 20+ yrs but average life expectancy is 1 yr due to predators(including humans).ME,glad you could take your bird to the vet and everything worked out.She looked pitiful in the after surgery pic.When I took my rooster to the vet's for an ear infection they wouldn't let me go back and watch,either.They cleaned the affected ear out but 2 days later,the other ear got crusty and I had to figure out how to clean it.That's when I fashioned the loop.I spent many hours over many days cleaning his ears and he was on antibiotic injections at the time.He would lay in my lap and let me pick at his ears.It's great to find a vet to treat your chickens.I'm very fortunate,I have 3 places to go to-10 min away(they just opened last month),30 min away and 1- 1 1/2 hr away(depends on time of day and traffic).I always scope out exotic animal vets because of my exotic birds,not all vets treat all animals and in an emergency you can't waste time looking for one.I hope your hen recovers...


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## Maryellen

The vet said I have to keep the incision open so it keeps draining till her recheck next week,she doesn't want the pockets filling up with fluid. I am a bit annoyed, she said no drains that the wound will stay open,and this morning they are already closing. I paid $300. Yes $300 for emergency surgery and meds and If we can't keep the wounds open she has to go back and have drains put in. Wtf.... I'm not made of money and I don't have any left. When I called this morning she was shocked the wounds were closing up so fast. ..


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## chickenqueen

Can you keep it open by pulling it apart and not let it close?Or maybe put a piece of gauze in the opening to keep it from closing.When gauze is soaked,change it and with the gauze the wound won't close.If the area is too small for a piece of gauze,just pull it open several times a day.I've had to do that for boils and if you don't let it close completely it is not too painful to pull the edges apart to keep draining the wound.Hopefully,with surgery and antibiotics it won't keep draining for long.Good luck!


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## Maryellen

My husband got the larger lump incision open, but he didn't get the smaller one under the large one. He said it really hurt her to open the big one so he will try in an hour for the small one.


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## seminole wind

Maryellen, you're a good chicken mommy. You've certainly gone beyond what most people would do. Sometimes it's tough to get a wound to heal the way it should. I remember my horse got a deep gash, pretty deep like a puncture. It had to heal from the bottom up. So every day I had to go rip the scab off , wash it out and put goop in there. A bandage wouldn't stick so at least with the goop, it prevented other dirt from getting in. Anyway, it healed from the inside out. So don't worry. Nothing in life is perfect and wounds don't always do what you want them to. Do the best you can and if it fills, then have the vet puncture them open again. For the money you spent, after care should be free , right? (in a perfect world)


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## Maryellen

Omfg they want to charge me to put the drain in..plus an office visit WTF. I'm freaking livid... I am not going to keep stressing Henrietta out every few hours grabbing her and opening up both cut. If she was a other animal yes, but she is a chicken. She is getting stressed. I told the girl I spent $370 last night and the vet said she didn't want to pit a drain in as she thought it would stay open..


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## Maryellen

39 bucks to put the drains in . Said they will only charge me that instead of the 70 office visit and 60 to put her under and put drains in. I'm still pissed but I'll take 39 bucks for it as it needs to be done. Now I know drains should be put in at surgery since chickens heal so fast. I drop her off tomorrow morning


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## nannypattyrn

Mary Ellen, go to a pharmacy and get 1/8 or 1/4 inch wound packing strips , plain not medicated and pack it yourself using a Q-tip or toothpick. It's easy to do. Just pack it until you can't get any more in and cut it off. Take it out daily with tweezers. You will use less each time until it heals. Much cheaper...


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## dawg53

Sinusitis in poultry:
http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/sinusitis
Rhinitis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinitis


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## Maryellen

She had no wheezing, no sneezing, no mucus or anything dripping out of her nose or mouth or eyes..which the vet said was odd too.


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## casportpony

dawg53 said:


> Sinusitis in poultry:
> http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/sinusitis
> Rhinitis:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinitis


Excellent links!

.


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## casportpony

.


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## seminole wind

Oh wow! Good links.


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## seminole wind

Maryellen, I guess $39 is not bad. However, I would point blank tell her you spent $370 on a hen, and she opted to leave the drains out. Tell her you thought that would be included. Then wait for her to say something.

My vet charges me $40 office visit for euthanizations, or a diagnosis. I think I paid $50.00 total when he wrapped a broken leg.
I'm glad he's not a money squeezer, so I'm going to take the dog there as well. I think our last vet sold his business sort of and isn't there that much so we get different vets the last time.


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## Maryellen

They would not do it for free I tried,I told them how much I paid and that the vet talked about drains but decided not to,I said it's not my fault the vet didn't do the drains.
I can't go to nuts on them only cause they are true livestock vets and the next one is over 2 ho u rs away. But I know now to make sure drains are in. Henrietta opened them tonight scratching her face so they are draining goood, and I'm doing the compresses and got my husband to do them when I'm at work. I cancelled the drain appt since we were able to open the incisions but I'm still pissed


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## chickenqueen

Does your hubby love the chickens like you do?Mine doesn't but he is always there to help when I need it.He gets upset about the poop on the porch(I'm putting up a fence around the porch next year) and having chickens in the house.Then I remind him the chickens were here 1st.


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## Maryellen

He likes them. Not like me but he is so laid back he doesn't care when they are in the house (so he tells me ).. he will do what he can if I ask him, I try not to ask to much from him


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## seminole wind

Maryellen, I think you're doing right about the compresses. I might even think about Epsom salt compress, very wet. I would do the compresses until the swelling goes down. 
Your hen is lucky she has you!


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## Maryellen

Thank you!!! I have saline eye flush here I wonder if that would work on the lump? She gets meds for the swelling too


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## Maryellen

Ok. The top lump is draining great. The bottom lump isn't . I'm going to have to call the vet in the morning .

We are going to try to open the bottom one up before I go to the dr tomorrow morning. If we can get it open I won't call the vet. I'm doing warm compresses and anti inflammatory meds still.


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## seminole wind

Very warm Epsom salt compresses work in a way that because it's more salty or magnesium-y, fluids tend to be drawn to it . And she's on meds for it too? Is there any infection involved or just healing?


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## Maryellen

I found the bottom incision. I'm working it with warm compresses I don't have Epsom salt. Would saline solution work too?. 
It's healing but the fluids need to drain and they arent. The top incision is draining and healing good,it's the bottom one that healed faster . I got a bit off just now with tweezers, gonna wok it again after I get back from the dr this morning. I'll pick up Epsom salt too on the way home


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## dawg53

Saline solution will work.


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## Maryellen

I just got Epsom salts and on my way home to work on it more


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## seminole wind

It should also be reabsorbing itself. Is it looking better and better every day?


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## Maryellen

The top bump looks good, the bottom one is swollen again I'm trying to pick the scab off


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## Maryellen

So I'm going to put the Epsom salts in a paper towel and soak it and compress. Or use gauze pads


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## Maryellen

I got a bit out with soaking and a toothpick. I'll work on her again in a few hours to give her a break. I got some blood out which was good


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## robin416

Have you noticed that the birds are a full time job all in themselves?


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## Maryellen

Oh yes robin. When they are sick it's a full time job. I'm off a few days now and it's crazy lol.


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## seminole wind

I know, when someone's sick it's like so much more work. It will feel good once it's over.


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## Maryellen

The vet tried to have me do surgery again. To the tune if 252.00.. I said no. I tokd her she didn't put the drain in, not me. Told her she said she would put the drain in for 39 and now it's 252???. Took Henrietta home with just antibiotics. I'm not spending a fortune on a 2nd surgery,. I'll keep treating her and if the 2nd lump doesn't go away I will have her euthanized. I tokd the vet I shouldn't be paying for HER decision to not put a drain in the bottom incision.


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## seminole wind

Maryellen. I think a drain sounds kindof above and beyond chickenownerhood. I've never heard of anything like that. If there's a pocket of fluid, you can draw it out with a 3ml syringe and an 18 gauge needle. Is the swelling getting better or worse? Was it cultured? If it's getting bigger and feels like a pocket of fluid, you draining or tapping it that way would be just as well as the vet doing it. And also keep her on antibiotics. It would be wonderful if we knew what the bacteria was so we could get her the best antibiotic for that bug.


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## dawg53

Maryellen, what antibiotics did you get for your hen?


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## Maryellen

The vet gave me trimeth sulfa , said it was the injection she gave Henrietta after surgery, then told me she could not clean out all the infection when she did the first surgery said she got as much out as possible. Which made me more livid as I spent 353.00 on the surgery


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## dawg53

The TMP/SMX should clear it up.


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## Maryellen

Do you think so? She will be in the house till spring, so I am hoping it gets better. I'm still doing the Epsom compresses too


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## dawg53

Maryellen said:


> Do you think so? She will be in the house till spring, so I am hoping it gets better. I'm still doing the Epsom compresses too


It takes time for antibiotics to clear up bacterial infections. Same with humans.
Are you giving the TMP/SMX daily as a tablet or using soluable powder mixed in water?


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## Maryellen

Liquid 2x a day


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## casportpony

Maryellen said:


> Liquid 2x a day


Is the lump hard yet? SMZ/TMP is a good antibiotic, but it might not be the right antibiotic, so talk to your vet about other drugs.

.


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## Maryellen

It is soft. It was hard at first and after surgery it got soft . The top bump is already gone.


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## robin416

A different thought on the lump. This could be nothing more than drainage from the trauma of the infection and surgery. The drain would have prevented the fluids from building up and causing additional problems. 

My thinking here is that the infection is either gone or very well contained and that the fluid now in that spot is nothing but serum from the past events and will stop and then be absorbed by the body.


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## seminole wind

So it sounds like your seeing improvement, right? Then keep on doing what you're doing.


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## Maryellen

Yes, the vet said the fluid build up is the stuff draining from the surgery. She said it shoukd reabsorb bavk with the compresses we are doing. She is definitely improving, just slowly, which is fine. Eating and drinking good, she gets meds 2x a day, plus warm compresses of Epson salts a few times a day tooo


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## seminole wind

That's good to hear.


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