# Poodles not Doodles!



## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

Former title of thread: Cavapoo Breeders. I changed the name since I ended up getting a miniature poodle who needed a good home. My mini poodle, Jordan, is a wonderful boy. Poodles have such great qualities. There's no need to cross breed and introduce any other breed (while charging a lot of $$$ just for a fancy name). 

I've been looking for a Cavapoo (Caviler King Charles Spaniel X Poodle) and have determined that most, if not all, are from puppy mills. I've found one or two breeders a few hours away, that say they're not a puppy mill, (of course I would visit to find out for sure) but thousands of $$$$ for one.

Also one breeder told me that the puppy needs to be let out every hour, and 2-3 times overnight, which is too much. I need to sleep when I go to bed.

I think my best option is to find an adult that the owner no longer can keep. A toy poodle would be adorable too and an equal choice.

The only reason why puppy mills continue to stay in business is that when someone is looking for a puppy they don't do the research to determine if it's a legitimate breeder, and not a puppy mill. It only takes a few google searches and some reading to find out.

I believe most people would not buy from a puppy mill with full knowledge of how the dogs are treated, but they see the pictures of the adorable puppies online, and are too quick to decide to get the puppy, and many places will ship the puppy to the purchaser, who then will never know what environment the puppy came from.

It's important no matter how much someone "wants or needs" that puppy to completely be confident that the puppy is coming from a kind and caring breeder who raises the puppies in their house. I thinks it's also selfish to ignore the red flags indicating it's a puppy mill.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'll admit, I had to see what the heck a Cavapoo is. 

They've raided several puppy mills down here this Summer. I don't blame you for wanting to avoid them because not only are they in it for the bucks they don't consider the genetics at all. 

I bought my last German Shepard from a breeder. I went to her home, it was obvious the parents were a part of the family and not kept in cages.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

I've added to my opening post.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

I think puppy mills produce almost all of the designer breeds, and the poodle mixes are very popular.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Until a few years ago, I didn't even know there was a thing called a puppy mill. If not for the news reports about the raids I probably wouldn't know today.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

I wonder how many people don't know about them.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Considering how much time I spend learning stuff and never was aware, there could be quite a few. I mean really, someone wants a puppy and never gives a thought to where it came from as long as it's healthy. Why would they? Most think that anyone that has a dog or cat thinks of them the same way as we do, they're a cherished family member.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

That's true, and many puppy mills will fly the puppy to someone so they never know.

I did find a breeder 4&1/2 hours away who has the mom, and the puppies in their home. Her sister has the dad. We may get one of those, but putting down payment and choosing a puppy without seeing them first is concerning, because I don't want to choose the wrong one.

When we got our American Bobtail cat he was the one who came over by me, flopped down and purred and purred. I don't know that I would have picked him as the one from pictures.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I know, the personality has to fit the family. Getting one that isn't really into humans could make life a struggle. 

Would I do a long trip like that? Probably not just because I've never been into a single breed that much that I would take that time.

You do realize that if you do make the trip a few pics are mandatory. Right?


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

Yes, of course pics! I probably won't make the trip. I've expanded my search to include Toy Poodles, and Cockapoos. There are more options than Cavapoos locally and raised in homes.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I saw your post while sitting in the dentist office and decided to wait until I got home to answer. My hunt and peck on the phone takes forever. 

Cockapoos are adorable. I like that choice. And if the one you choose is anything like one someone I knew was, you're in trouble. The little bugger was beyond smart.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

Hopefully the smartness extends to housebreaking. I may be looking at one in the next few days. I'm not looking forward to the puppy stage.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Somehow I missed that when we found the three boys when they were puppies. Probably it had to do with them spending all day outside and then came into the mudroom at night until my old dog had to be put down. I didn't have any of the house breaking thing to go through. Once they had free access to the house they found their spots in my bedroom at night and that was it.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

What breed of dogs do you have @robin416?

I've found a Cockapoo breeder/seller locally, and think I'm dealing with a puppy mill. The person is selling the puppies from their home, but doesn't have the parents. Too many red flags and long delays in getting back with me on questions.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I only have one left now. We found three brothers when they were puppies. Best we can guess Momma was a black lab but the boys all appeared to have different fathers. All were black, one looked like he had hound in him, another looked more like full lab but he was small, the one I still have looks like he has australian shepard in him. 

What did they say when you asked where the parents were?


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

The seller's mom has the mother (cockapoo) and a family friend has the dad (toy poodle). On Friday I talked on the phone with seller and was setting up a time to see the puppy, and I asked if she could get the mother of the puppy so I could see her. She said she would check with her mother and call me back. Haven't heard a peep since.

The seller's facebook page says her mission is selling puppies of her friends who don't have access to internet. Now how would someone have that many "friends" that need help selling their puppies that don't have access to internet? There are groups of Amish within reasonable driving distance (1 hour), which also is prime puppy mill area.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

It is beginning to seem your radar going off with a warning is beginning to be something to pay attention to. 

Wait, are you saying the Amish have puppy mills? I know for them the animals all have jobs and are not considered family members like ours are but I'm surprised to learn about puppy mills.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

For 32 years I've been living near one the highest % of Amish areas in the U.S., and yes I've seen enough to know that's true.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

There was a large Amish community where I lived in TN and never heard a thing about it. But considering I didn't know about puppy mills until the past few years that isn't surprising.

Most of what has been happening around here lately is hoarders. They just rescued over a 100 dogs from a couple hoarding them.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

There have some around here too. It seems that may be somewhat common.

A few years ago I purchased two goslings that were kept in very less than ideal conditions. When my husband and I walked into the barn there was a dead chicken laying there, and one sick chicken had gotten out of it's cage somehow and was laying on the floor.

Nothing was taken proper care of there, the house, the property, the person.

I called animal control on the place, which I don't think did much about it at that time since they continued to sell goslings for 2 years after that, but now do not.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

That sounds like the young guinea I rescued. I couldn't believe what I saw there. 

When I got him home and out of the cage he stunk something awful. The saddest part of it was he was plenty old enough to roost but he didn't know how.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

Got a toy/mini poodle yesterday. He's 2 & 1/2 years old, from someone who was breeding designer puppies, but quitting. He's housebroke, calm, doesn't bark, a very good boy. 

The cats are terrified, and hope they can adjust. I'll post a pic soon.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Is this your only dog or adding to the pack?

And that is another reason why I won't be getting another dog, my two old cats. I'm just not willing to upset that apple cart.

Looking forward to the pics of the new fluff ball in your house.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

Yes, he's the only dog. One cat I think can adjust, but the other one I'm not sure about. They are young, and spend a lot of time outside, but they like to be able to go in the house and not be afraid.

I might have made a mistake. He's such a good boy.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

If he's a good boy and he doesn't aggravate the cats then why is he a mistake? 

Are the cats really afraid of him or just not liking having an interloper? Because of my set up in TN and my other old cats I kept my two current cats locked in the back half of my house. They never interacted with my four dogs. Then when the old cats died I let these two out. They never missed a beat with the dogs although the female would hiss if one of them got in her face.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

They are just afraid of him being around, and don't want to take the chance of coming in contact with him at all.

Although it was okay for the cats to follow an opossum to where his home was, which was under my chicken shed.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

If he isn't bugging them I'll bet they'll adjust to his presence especially since they're young. Mine did. 

Because mine are now 12 years old I won't force them to accept another dog in the house.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

I sure hope so. One cat is just over 2 & 1/2 years old, who grew up with a dog in the house of the breeder, and the other cat is 1 year 3 months.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Too bad cats don't follow the lead of the older more experienced cat. Things could get all settled in a hurry that way. Unfortunately cats are cats and only follow their own lead.


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## Maryellen (Jan 21, 2015)

The cats will adjust, it's just going to take some time. Took my cats 3 months to get used to moe and duke.
If the dog is a great dog just have patience it will all work out


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

He's actually more black than what the camera recorded. He is coal black, and his collar is purple, not pink.

The cats are adjusting. I have a gate up that I fold to block two areas from each other when the cats want to come in.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

OMG!!! He's adorable. That bed is almost bigger than he is.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

The bed fits him perfectly when he lays down and curls up. He barked for the first time since being here today.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I was just wondering if a time comes when you'll be taking pics of one of the cats curled up sleeping with him. I've got pics of one of my dogs and one of my old cats, dog with a front leg over the cat and both sound asleep.


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## Sylie (May 4, 2018)

OH what an adorable little sweety. The cats will adjust, It just takes time, cats are like that. Be patient with all of them and it will work out.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

Here's a picture that shows his color more accurately. He likes his bed a lot.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

robin416 said:


> I was just wondering if a time comes when you'll be taking pics of one of the cats curled up sleeping with him. I've got pics of one of my dogs and one of my old cats, dog with a front leg over the cat and both sound asleep.


I'll make sure to post a pic when (hopefully) that happens!


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

Sylie said:


> OH what an adorable little sweety. The cats will adjust, It just takes time, cats are like that. Be patient with all of them and it will work out.


I think they will. They have been observing, and I've been making sure they still get their snuggles too.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

If no one is going after anyone and he knows his boundaries for now then you're probably 75% there.


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## Sylie (May 4, 2018)

I agree with Robin, few or no actual fights is a good sign and you are well on your way!


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

It snowed (way early!!) about 10", and got cold.

The cats have been in mostly the last two days, and they have been staying in the basement, where the wood burning stove is, and where the dog doesn't go. The cats love the warm stove. 

They all are learning, and the dog is learning to leave the cats alone when they come upstairs.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'm surprised the little guy isn't with the cats close to the stove. Our old redbone hound got so close to the wood stove in our old place we had concerns he'd get burned.

It does sound like they're finding their new normal. I'm looking forward to reading they're sharing the same bed at some point.


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## Sylie (May 4, 2018)

It sounds great so far! They will all learn to get along or they will learn who's boss and act accordingly, it will all be fine in the end  just keep up the patience!


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

I don't let the dog in the basement, because the cats need their space in the house where the dog isn't. The litter box is in the basement too, which I hear dogs love.

One of my cats, Chloey, was just observing him yesterday through the baby/pet gate, and hissed at him he got too excited.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Yeah, my Sissy would do that to my dogs. She never struck any of them but would hiss and walk off. Jake was more like he could care less about the dogs. 

The litter pan is dog heaven. The scary part is the litter itself and what it can do internally. Since I don't have a basement I had a fence around mine to keep the dogs out.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

It took the cats four weeks before they decided Jordan is not a threat, and started to act normal again. Now, though one of the cats has been missing for 2&1/2 weeks. I think a coyote killed him. Also tried to kill my Flemish Giant rabbit about a week before that! The rabbit is okay. 

Since the other cat is gone, the remaining cat, Chloey, has been staying in the house more. She doesn't stay outside all night like the other cat did. She plays with the dog a little, but mostly watches and pretends to stalk him.

I don't have a picture yet of them sleeping together, although they have slept on the same couch, but not close.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

Former title of thread was "Cavapoo Breeders". I changed the name of the thread since I ended up getting a miniature poodle who needed a good home. My mini poodle (Jordan) was kept for breeding doodles (Maltipoos) by his previous owner, who no longer wanted to breed.

Jordan is a wonderful boy. Poodles have such good qualities, there's no need to cross breed them (and charge a lot of $$$ for a fancy name) to get any other qualities.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'm so sorry about the loss of the one cat. It's part of the reason I made a cat run for my cats so they could be out but contained. I just couldn't afford the vet bills if they got into a fight with another feral cat. 

That took a bit longer than I thought it would. But since Chloey no longer has the other she's more than likely going to get closer to Jordan as time goes by. 

I lost my last dog a few months back. I've decided no more but boy do I miss having one in my life. But both of my cats are 12 years old so the likelihood they'd accept a strange dog is about zero to no flipping way.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

I thought if we get another cat in the future, we will build a cat run. I can't keep a cat in the house full time, since we don't declaw. They like to scratch and get things out of their system that they can't in a house full time.

The other cat that is gone was more chill around Jordan, hunching his back and rubbing up against him.

For now, and for a long time it's just going to be one cat and one dog. The rabbit has a spot in the garage out back, safe with no gasoline fumes, and I'll let him back out closer to spring. So far he doesn't want out, since he was traumatized by the coyote attack.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I don't know how I got so lucky, my two have not been after my furniture at all. They do like the rugs that are around the house. And of course there's a cat scratcher or two around and they've shredded that. 

I was going to say it's the male laid back thing but I had one female that even when the dogs told her to go away when they were lounging she'd ignore them and curl up against their chests or bellies. 

I got lucky with this house, I have a screened breezeway. I just extended it out to the open sky with a run for them. Not saying the male is always that pleased about it but it's usually enough to keep him from nagging me.


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## Sylie (May 4, 2018)

I'm thinking about making a cat run. I'm just afraid that they will get even more fleas than they already do. I have one cat that is so allergic to them that she has seizures from even a couple. If I let her out she would be one giant seizure 24/7, I seriously cannot take that lol. It really messes with me when she has them. 
If I let the other cats out in the run and not her, they will bring the excess fleas in the house when they come back in. I don't know, maybe I can make an elevated one. solid floor, solid roof for shade and protection from rain and hardware cloth walls? Does that sound doable?


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Uh, Sylie, are you aware that anyone that goes outside can bring them in on their pants legs? 

I lived on a boat for a year, the thing was about 200 feet from the shore. The boat and my two cats ended up covered in fleas. The cats didn't leave the boat, just my daughter and me. 

Well, yeah one did. The female was adventurous and would go wandering on nearby boats if I didn't keep an eye on her.


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## Sylie (May 4, 2018)

Yes I'm aware lol, but compared to a cat, sitting on the ground collecting them and then coming inside...that's a different color of horse. None of our cats are outdoor cats, the only way that they get fleas is by the dog bringing them in (he is an indoor dog but we walk him around the block to potty and therefore, brings in fleas) and the few we bring in on our pants. We rarely get severe infestations because we are so careful, brush off our pants when coming inside, combing the dog and cats several times a day, treating the carpets and floors etc. It's a giant pain in the neck to keep the fleas down but it has to be done.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I always had good luck with the topicals for just the dogs. If the cats had any they died because of the dogs being treated. Especially the calico that slept with the dogs.


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## Sylie (May 4, 2018)

We tried Frontline on the dog but he almost died from it, and on top of that, it didn't work at all. I knew I should have just stuck with my herbs that had worked in the past but my husband wanted to try it *shrug* lesson learned


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Yeah, just like humans some of it can have bad side effects. And the main ingredient in Frontline quit working some years ago.


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## Sylie (May 4, 2018)

Yeah, it was something like 4 yrs ago that we tried it. Swore never again. We thought we were going to lose our dog and still had fleas to contend with after it.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

It's been way too many years but one of mine reacted to something I gave him or put on him. It must have been a topical because I took him out and gave him a bath immediately. It was enough to stop the reaction.


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## Sylie (May 4, 2018)

That's the biggest problem with chemicals, there are so many things that can go wrong. Not to say that it can't happen with herbs because, yes, you can be allergic to herbs but the reaction is generally not as severe and not as likely to happen and herbs are pretty straight forward, if you use rose geranium oil on your dog for fleas and he reacts to it, that's a bummer but at least you know exactly what he is allergic to, with chemicals, there are so many ingredients that you just cannot pin point the problem.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Part of the challenge was not knowing his true parentage. I'm fairly sure he had Australian Shepard in him along with black lab. As we talk about his I remember more. His two brothers were fine with it but not him, so I just treated the other two.


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## Sylie (May 4, 2018)

Well, that's good information really, it told you that it wasn't a genetic issue, just an individual allergy.


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## lover of birds (Nov 7, 2017)

I've found the Seresto collar works on the dog. I had a cheap flea collar on the cat, but it's not working, so I ordered a Seresto collar for the cat yesterday. Expensive, but I want something that works!

I do a lot of vacuuming and washing the blankets they lay on too.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

When the two old cats are gone I won't have to think about parasites except for those that might hitch hike in on my clothes.


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## Sylie (May 4, 2018)

I don't use chemicals on my animals anymore. We tried the frontline like I mentioned, against my better judgement and it turned out badly which just reinforced my resolve not to use chemicals. 
We just comb the cats and dog 4 or 5 times a day during flea season and 2 or 3 times a day in the off season cuz the little suckers hang around even in the winter. Then I use rose geranium oil (dilute) to help prevent and then a few other tricks, we rarely have an actual infestation, they will get a few on them no matter what you do.


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