# The dreaded tapeworm!



## SonoranChick (Oct 23, 2017)

I can't believe it, because I just treated the flock with Equimax over the summer...but I am seeing tapeworm segments in their poo again. I am going to scream! I have never hated a creature more than I HATE tapeworms!!  The segments are like something out of a bad sci-fi movie. My coop is pristine (it is literally my day job to keep it clean)...we haven't had rain in 100 days so it's very, very dry. I cannot control if the chickens eat random bugs but I am working on controlling the ant and fly populations. Why are these nasty worms so persistent?! How can I get rid of them for good? I am dreading treating the flock again because I will have to throw out so many eggs...Their health is more important to me than eggs though. @dawg53 youre my worm guru...thoughts? The good news is the chickens are acting normal, laying, eating, drinking, etc.


----------



## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I would try something different first. Equimax may not be as effective as other wormers. Try either one of these: fenbendazole or levamisole to treat. 

Tapes can be difficult to get rid of and will need repeated treatments to try to stop the cycle.


----------



## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Many wormers don't treat tapes. I think Equimax or Ivermectin don't. I don't know which ones do. Some worms continue to inhabit a chicken because the wormer dose kills the adults, but it has to be followed up with a dose for the new hatched worms.


----------



## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

You cant eliminate bugs. Each tapeworm segment you see carries within it hundreds of eggs. The segments work their way into the soil where insects eat the eggs. Then your chickens eat the infected insects; earthworms, sow bugs, ants, flies, termites etc. 

Equimax contains a higher dose of praziquantel than zimectrin gold. Ivermectin, levamisol, pyrantal pamoate and fenbendazole wont treat tapes. Valbazen will treat tapes at repeated high doses. I recommend that you stick with equimax.
Praziquantel is used to kill tapes in dogs and cats (drontal/droncit.)

Withhold feed from your chickens for 24 hours, water is okay. Dont let them free range. 
Dose them early the next morning with a "pea" size amount of the equimax paste. It must be given orally to each chicken. You can put it on a small piece of bread and maybe they'll eat it in that manner. Sometimes they will and sometimes they wont. Otherwise you'll have to put it directly in the mouth.
They wipe their beaks on the ground afterwards, that's normal.
Repeat this procedure in 12-14 days.
I've eaten eggs after using zimectrin gold which contains praziquantel/ivermectin...still here typing.

Keep in mind that this might be an ongoing challenge for you and your chickens.


----------



## SonoranChick (Oct 23, 2017)

Thank you everyone for responding. Thank you for being realistic and not telling me to just feed them pumpkin seeds with vinegar lol...I wish tapeworms were that easy to manage! 
I was also under the assumption that praziquantel is the way to go. I have only used the Equimax one time before, so I don't think they (the worms) would be building up a tolerance to it yet. I will try it again. Is there anything in particular that I should be seeing in their droppings during treatment? Dead worms or inactive segments? I have also heard that it's not the worst thing in the world to eat the eggs after treatment. I gave them to the dogs last go 'round and they are just fine.


----------



## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

You're correct. Tapeworms are very difficult to get rid of. Anyone that tells you to use pumpkin seeds, DE, vinegar, vermx and all that other natural stuff...has never dealt with tapeworms, probably no other types of worms neither. 
With tapeworms, after properly administering the wormer, it's entirely possible to see excreted bits and pieces of tapeworms. Tapeworms are different from nematodes. Tapeworms have various shapes and sizes. I've seen jellyfish like strands come out of some of my birds as well as bits and pieces. Most of the time you dont see anything because they are absorbed as protein in the digestive tract.
Remember to reworm your birds a second time as I mentioned in the above post. Also remember to withhold feed for 24 hours like the first time, and reworm the next morning before feeding your birds. Good luck and hang in there.


----------



## SonoranChick (Oct 23, 2017)

I come to this sight for sound advice and I am never disappointed  Thanks @dawg53.
I often wonder if the lack of de-worming products on the US market for chickens is a direct result of the commercial poultry industry. Small scale chicken farmers like ourselves are left to do the math and find what works through trial and error with dog, cat, and horse dewormers. I am often met with hostility on other sites when I bring it up, but I think if the commercial poultry farms were not a function of quantity and profit, there would be a trusted product on the market that worked for pesky tapes by now.


----------



## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Most commercial chickens are caged,so they don't normally get worms.


----------



## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Commercial layers are debeaked, never touch soil, and are caged up off the ground and replaced at two years. Then shipped out and marketed for McDonald's chicken McNuggets etc...organs are sold to cat and dog food manufacturers.

Commercial meat birds are processed at 6 months old. 
Wormers arnt needed in commercial operations.


----------



## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

Fryers are processed at 32-40 days ,Roasters are around 50 days old.
Cornish rock game hens are processed at 28 days old.
Most egg layers are composted.


----------



## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Nm156 said:


> Fryers are processed at 32-40 days ,Roasters are around 50 days old.
> Cornish rock game hens are processed at 28 days old.
> Most egg layers are composted.


I remember birds being sold to Campbell's Soup company years ago, not anymore. 
Times have changed.


----------



## SonoranChick (Oct 23, 2017)

Yes, this is what I'm getting at. There is no need to fund $$$ deworming studies in chickens, as most production birds are butchered so young it doesn't even matter. Or the living conditions are not susceptible to worms (wire floor, de-beaked, soil free environment...totally unnatural). In a "natural" environment, chickens are exposed to all kinds of parasites, tapeworms included. I wish we had a product in the US that was tested & safe for those of us backyard flock keepers.


----------



## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

There is approved wormers but they all require a VFD.


----------



## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Re worming chickens. Horse wormers need no script. There are multiple choices of chemicals to kill worms. Then there are the pigeon people and they seem to have more wormers accessible. Then the Falconers. They can get some pretty good stuff. It pays to look into other animals and see what you can get. Then we figure out the dose. However Valbazen seems to be at the top of preferred wormers.

You are all right about research being pretty non-existent with chicken wormers. Over a hundred years of chickens for consumption who don't see the age of 1 or 2. Now we have chickens that live for up to 10 years. And look for advice from experts. Well that would be us. As a group we hold the most accurate information. There are very few experts on chickens that are older than 2. That's why it makes sense to discuss these things and even meds we've used in the past to help someone out. In this group there is at least one person for each disease they have had to battle. And that battle teaches a lot. 

Dawg and I and MANY others decided years ago to help people find accurate information even on one subject. Some of us make sure our information is up to date. This site is like a think tank where you can hear many chicken people state their opinions or experiences without infringing on someone else's opinion. It just comes back to this. Like ME, sharing information is what helps many people-many more than you think (lurkers).

In regard to recommendation of antibiotics-most chicken people are not taking their chicken to the vet or sending out a necropsy. So there is nothing left but death or antibiotics that cover most bacteria that are common in chickens. 

And worming is extremely important as a chicken ages past 4-6 months. I feel that cocci need a preventative treatment a few times a year because chickens can look well with more cocci (sub clinical) but still be on the thin side for no reason. This was told to me by the head of the dept of the animal disease lab.


----------



## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

SonoranChick said:


> Yes, this is what I'm getting at. There is no need to fund $$$ deworming studies in chickens, as most production birds are butchered so young it doesn't even matter. Or the living conditions are not susceptible to worms (wire floor, de-beaked, soil free environment...totally unnatural). In a "natural" environment, chickens are exposed to all kinds of parasites, tapeworms included. I wish we had a product in the US that was tested & safe for those of us backyard flock keepers.


I think Valbazen and Safeguard lead in that. And no script.


----------



## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Here's what VFD means:
https://www.zoetisus.com/responsible-antibiotic-use/vfd.aspx
Rooster Booster poultry wormer and Durvet Strike lll poultry wormer were removed from shelves due to the new FDA regulations. 
Both contained hygromycin B, an antibiotic which was also an anthelmintic. I still have a container of the Rooster Booster wormer somewhere around here, probably expired. My birds didnt touch it when I mixed it in with their feed.
Anything that was specifically poultry antibiotics have been removed from store shelves. 
We have to use "off label" products for our birds, or get a script from a vet (who will most likely want to see the bird $$$,) and the final option is to cull birds.


----------



## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

As far as wormer research goes for poultry: I can provide links to testing effectiveness with valbazen, safeguard, and ivermectin. 
Just let me know which one you need and I'll post it or all of them.


----------



## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Ivermectin treats everything but tapes. Durvet ivomectin is sold without script for cattle on amazon. I just have a problem establishing a dose.


----------



## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Ivermectin is ineffective in treating poultry worms, too much resistance due to overuse as a miteacide in poultry.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0450.1989.tb00635.x/abstract


----------



## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

This was written in 1988-89. I was wondering if there were more recent publications available?

Dawg, what does treat tapeworms


----------



## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Karen. I personally used Ivermectin pour on and Eprinex when I lived in Georgia. I never understood why some of my birds would excrete large roundworms a month, to 45 days after using the wormers. Ivermectin and Eprinex are supposed to stay in the system for 30 days preventing worm infestations. It isnt supposed to take 30 to 45 days for these products to get rid of worms. That's when I started looking for better wormers. Then I found that link online while looking for effective wormers for poultry.
You cant beat the benzimidazoles when it comes to worming. They are very safe, effective, and dont stay in the system very long, not like ivermectin. It's important to rotate them after awhile.
Macrolids; ivermectin and its derivatives are simply ineffective in poultry. They are also ineffective in controlling fowl mites, northern fowl mite and tropical fowl mite.
Here's a link that you can scroll down to "Chemical control" and take a look at the last sentence in a couple of the parasite descriptions where it states that macrolids are ineffective against fowl mites. Then for the next parasite under "Chemical control," again, the last sentence states that macrolids are ineffective against the northern fowl mite and tropical fowl mite.
http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2540&Itemid=2816

Products containing praziquantel will kill tapeworms.
Valbazen (albendazole) will kill tapes but requires extended fasting and higher doses in poultry.
Despite what some people believe; I've used fenbendazole at high doses against tapeworms and it's ineffective.


----------



## Maryellen (Jan 21, 2015)

I really really love how knowledgeable you all are.


----------



## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

okay, I'll read your link. I just want to rotate to prevent building resistance.


----------



## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

No problem. I rotate wormers. Not only do I use valbazen and safeguard, I like to switch it up with pyrantel pamoate for dogs aka nemex 2. I might get a hankering to use wazine in between regular wormings, especially during the summer when it's hot.
I've been very lucky so far here in Jax that I havnt had a tapeworm problem to deal with (knock on wood lol.)


----------

