# Rooster Illness, Treatment Options?



## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

My year old bantam Wyandotte rooster presented this morning off his feet. He can run when prompted and appears bowl legged and wide stance do when doing so, but then he will fall flat on his face, legs kicking wildly to right himself, and end up on his belly, both feet out behind him where he will sit until he absolutely has to move or I right him. 
He will eat and drink a little but not with his normal gusto.
Poop appears milky, as he has residue of such on his bum but I've not seen him poop yet.
I've separated him from his hens with food and water an administered 1/4 cup of a strong Epsom salt drench.
His hens display no symptoms and are fat and happy as always, no other bird in the building and none of the birds in the attached coop are at all bothered.

The only change he's had is last week I've switched his food to encourage show bloom; chick grower with soy bean meal and some oyster shell pieces mixed in for the hens. My feed is fresh, this bag was bought Thursday and is almost gone, no problems found and is stored in a secure dry bin.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

He pooped. Normal colour, consistency is more like purred pumpkin than the formed plops he usually has. Lots of water in it but that should be from the drench.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I probably would have done the drench too just because his presentation is so weird.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

Have you pinched his toes to see if he has feeling in them? I'd be worried to rule out Mareck's first. Beyond that I don't know - sounds pretty strange. Hope you can figure it out.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I'm sorry to hear about your little chicken. I would start with vitamins and electrolytes . Worm him and check for mites. Make sure there are the multi B vitamins. The drench was probably good. I think we need to rule out a vitamin or elyte deficiency and worms . I think Marks is something to think about when you've ruled out everything else. The diarrhea may be from the heat and drinking too much water, something he may have eaten, or worms. 

I always think of the most common things that affect a chicken first.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

Coccidiosis and bacterial infections of the intestines can also cause these symptoms.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

He feels his toes fine, as soon as you touch them he grabs your finger. I am terrified it's mereks, my mind always goes to worst case scenario as I have a big expensive flock and culling them all is not something want to do! He's not presenting like mereks aside from falling over. There's no paralysis, eyes look good, he's not wasting, breathing is fine aside from the fact he will get tired after a run. It really seems to be more of a weakness than anything.
I am having my husband bring home electrolytes, I used them all up a couple weeks ago on a hen that got badly injured and -of course- did not replenish my stock.

No external parasites, I will worm him though I'm fairly sure he's clean as I follow a regular worming schedule in spring and fall.

I'm wondering if it's a deficiency. Doesn't make any sense as he's got good food available but that's the only thing I can think of that has weakness and stumbling (aside from mereks lol).

If he wasn't the only bird I have from this breed and thus main breeding bird, he'd already be dead and be going away for testing. I do not mess with that sort of crap!


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

He's a bit old for coccidiosis. His poop was normal, I mean he's blowing out intestinal lining and what not now as that's what the drench is for lol. Ive only seen intestinal infections in hens that I rescued years ago with vent gleet so bad it had moved up into their tracts. Their poop stunk, his is pretty good. I can easily start him on a broad spectrum antibiotic though. 
I don't want to overload his system with meds, is my only concern.

This running and falling face first into the ground is throwing me for a loop.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

Sometimes they're poor at maintaining their vitamins. I hear that all about that a lot with medicated check feed.
If he actually looks sick and listless I would jump to an anti coccidial. Sick as in standing by himself and fluffed up.

Marek's is hard to dx because it looks like so many other things. If you practice a closed flock meaning only you hatching eggs or day Olds from the nursery, you can worry a lot less. If you bought birds from outside that, you can worry more. A classic symptom is leg paralysis.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

My flock isn't closed, but I practice pretty strict QT practices and only bring birds home from reputable, proven breeders or folks I know personally. Else it's hatching eggs and I even bathe them in antibacterial soap before hatching lol. 

I know it's a hard ticket to diagnose, I've had one bird present with staggers in the past and my first course of action was dislocating his neck - turns out he landed wrong off his perch and broke a pelvis, but I shoot first in normal situation. My mind instantly went there, but as I watched, it doesn't seem like mareks. He has full use and control of his legs. He's more so walking like he's carrying too much weight, if you can picture that; legs wide spread trying to keep himself balanced as he walks, and finally tipping over. 
His only symptom is he is falling on his face and uninterested in eating. He doesn't look the least bit sick, only reason I took a second glance at feeding this morning was that he had one wing out while he was sitting in the coop, I thought he might've hurt it so I went to grab him and discovered it was more than a sore wing.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Another thing, would mareks not be killing off my chicks brooded in the same building? It's a 16x12 barn with breeding and brooding cages stacked all along and up the walls. If one bird is sick, they're all going to be, I should think the younger ones would really be messed up if a vibrant healthy cock is.
Hopefully this is another reason why it's not mareks, I don't want to cull my flock.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Went out in the breeding barn to find a chick down and out with bloody poop. So maybe this is coccidiosis. Either way, picking up some coccidiostat from the vet this evening and a whole lot of vitamins and electrolytes and dosing everything in the barn for the next 5 days. 

My Wyandotte cock appears to be fading. He just wants to lay down and stay down. I really hate when you don't know what is happening, I've recovered birds from horrific injuries and illnesses, but I need to know what it is. Shooting into the dark solves nothing


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I wish I had some good idea to toss your way. You are about as good as they get for figuring out what is wrong and how to deal with it. And with all that is going on in my life right now, I'm not sure I have enough brain cells to toss any ideas out there that would help and not harm.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Shed intestinal lining is a good indication of coccidia, possibly capillary worms. Now that you have a chick with bloody feces, I'd treat with amprolium or sulfadimethoxine.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Was already on the phone with my vet, I'm picking up amprol as soon as hubby is home. Birds, I tell you.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I usually treat for clostridium perfringens as well. It's much better than being a reason other than marek's.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Had to google that one! Treatment in humans it seems is rehydration, he is on electrolytes and vitamins currently and I am tube feeding him at regular intervals to ensure he is getting them. He had his amprol last night. I'm losing chicks hand over fist - 10 so far - which is a horrible p*ss off. My pens are immaculately clean and dry, and I started all these on mediated feed which should've kept enough loading dose in them to prevent a cocci bloom, especially in such dry conditions. This isn't my first rodeo! 
My vet said it was likely stress, the last week has been alternating between terrible hot days and rainy cold days, and that could've been enough to throw them off and cause a cocci bloom. He said it doesnt explain the rooster necessarily but with him it's either cocci or nutritional as he has not heard of any local cases of Mareks ever here - and both of those I am more than capable of treating. I'd like to run a line of fluids to him but I have work and can't sit in the bathroom pretending to be an IV pole all day, plus I suck at hitting veins first (or third, oops) try on a chicken. He will have to make due with what he is getting. 

For anyone reading who may have the same problem: I mix the batch of medications up in a gallon jug as it's easiest to do math on, and fill the founts with that. As per the directions on the packages, each 1g jug gets 10cc of amprolium, 1 tbsp of electrolyte powder, and 30cc of baby vitamin drops (no added iron). Shake to disperse powder, and fill founts. The amprol must be continued for 5-7 days, I will use this mixture for the full duration, and a new batch must be made up every 24 hours.


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## dawg53 (Aug 25, 2015)

Fiere said:


> For anyone reading who may have the same problem: I mix the batch of medications up in a gallon jug as it's easiest to do math on, and fill the founts with that. As per the directions on the packages, each 1g jug gets 10cc of amprolium, 1 tbsp of electrolyte powder, and 30cc of baby vitamin drops (no added iron). Shake to disperse powder, and fill founts. The amprol must be continued for 5-7 days, I will use this mixture for the full duration, and a new batch must be made up every 24 hours.


Ditto, that's the way I do it. It's easiest to mix a gallon and take what you need from it. 
However chicks and other birds overwhelmed by cocci will be too sick to drink it themselves. It would be best to use an eyedropperful of the treated water initially and give it orally to each sick bird. That might just be enough to get them to drink the treated water on their own. Since you have alot of birds, it would be time consuming but perhaps necessary.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Already did that last night, Dawg! Time consuming is an understatement lol.
Luckily, most of the birds seem fine, it's my 2-3 week olds that are hardest hit, as they would be. Took everything out of the brooder that wouldn't drink on its own into the house. Dosed them individually out of the gallon solution. Lost 5 out of that batch by the morning but it's to be expected with cocci. Nothing out in the barn went down which tells me my intuition of the sickest was right.

I'm utterly p*ssed that I have a cocci bloom. I don't have issues with this, ever. Guess I was due. 

Rooster update, nothing has changed. Humph.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I don't think chickens are ever too old for coccidiosis. It's just less common in older birds. I have even had it in birds that were on medicated feed and had the vaccine.

I often wonder if they become resistant to amprolium in the feed and get something else for treatment like sulfadimethoxine?

Sorry you're going thru this.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

That's why I'm pretty strict with the medicated feed. They get it for the two weeks they're in the house (smaller brooder, more likelihood of an outbreak) in hopes to get in into their system and then they go out on non-medicated outside. It's just a loading dose, more of an aide than a preventative, but I do wonder about resistance.

You're not supposed to feed medicated feed to vaccinated birds. The coccidiostat in the feed will attack the vaccine and the bird ends up negated. I'm assuming it's the same with medicated feed and amprol, as it says on the jug to not use medicated feed whilst they're on it.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

Thanks for the condolences. It was bound to happen, last cocci outbreak I had was in meat chicks a couple years ago and I lost 11. Those things are petrie-dishes for cocci so it's not surprising. I've never had it in my heritage birds. Mind I've hatched nonstop for two months so I was bound to get hit sooner or later. Still sucks, poor little things.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

I don't care how long we've been raising them, it's always hard to lose the youngest of them. 

Hopefully you've caught it in time and won't suffer any additional losses. I would like to know how the cockerel progresses.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

I feel so bad for them. I can't imagine pooping blood like that feels nice. It's got to be a pretty horrible death. Oddly enough, my turkeys, Guineas and pheasants that are being brooded with them are 100%. Game birds are some tough I tell you.

I am on my way home shortly, the cockerels breathing was laboured early this afternoon. He looked quite poorly.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

My Wyandotte passed. I saved his body to open tomorrow when it's daylight.


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

I'm really sorry. I had one get coccidiosis when they had been vaccinated, and a few got it on medicated feed. Seems like if they have preventative, most people think "oh it can't be that". So now no one gets any preventative, and I keep Corid and sulfadimethoxine on hand and if someone young or a chicken even look cross-eyed at me, they get treatment right away. Coccidiosis does not have to be displaying blood. There's 6 different kinds. And any youngster or chick goes fast if they get it, and it's so common that I will assume that's why their sick. 

I also deal with a flock of marek's exposed, and they can have immunosuppression from being a carrier, so if my birds get sick I still include a coccidiostat. 

Fiere, sorry it took so many of yours. That really bites.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

As soon as a saw a chick go down I knew that's what it was with them, I'm still not convinced with the rooster but at least I know it couldn't of been Mareks after consulting with my vet - that was my scare, as its reportable here and means culling of the flock. I rely on cleanliness to keep cocci at bay in my brooders. That's why I'm shocked with these chicks. I was due I guess. I feel more so bad for them than myself, I brought these little creatures into this world and I take any preventable loss as a slight to myself. Even though this apparently clouldnt of been prevented. I'd still like to know the exact cause so I can rectify whatever problem it was but I doubt I will ever know.

I'm sad about my little Wyandotte. I have a dozen eggs from the quad ready to set but fertility has been consistently zero up until this point so my hopes aren't high. I clipped their butt feathers so maybe this batch will surprise me.


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## robin416 (Sep 8, 2013)

Hoping this group fools you and they're fertile.

I'm not convinced on your boy either. I guess we'll know later. It is possible something was wrong that allowed the cocci to bloom in his digestive tract so you probably still won't know for certain.


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## chickenqueen (Jan 9, 2016)

seminolewind said:


> I don't think chickens are ever too old for coccidiosis. It's just less common in older birds. I have even had it in birds that were on medicated feed and had the vaccine.
> 
> I often wonder if they become resistant to amprolium in the feed and get something else for treatment like sulfadimethoxine?
> 
> Sorry you're going thru this.


If you have your birds vaccinated you are not suppose to feed them medicated feed.The vaccine and medicated feed cancel each other out so you have nothing fighting disease.It's 1 or another but not both.When I buy vaccinated day olds I feed them flock raiser-it's high in protein- 22%- and other nutrition w/o antibiotics or hormones.


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## Nm156 (May 16, 2015)

No poultry feed has added hormones.There is no hormones marketed for chickens.


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## casportpony (Aug 22, 2015)

I think the vaccine only covers two of the nine strains that chickens get.

From Penn State - Poultry Health Handbook
http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/freepubs/pdfs/agrs52.pdf

















I also found this link:
http://www.uoguelph.ca/omafra_partn...cteristics-of-Eimeria-species.asp?_mid_=26492

.


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## WeeLittleChicken (Aug 31, 2012)

Cocci is so horrible. I am sorry you're losing your chicks. I know how that goes.


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## Fiere (Feb 26, 2014)

No deaths for nearly two days, although I lost almost every 2-3 week old chick (about 2 dozen) and 2 five week olds. C'est la vie I guess. I took every precaution and covered every base and it still happened. I don't feel bad for myself as I can always hatch more, but I feel awful for the chicks who went through it


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## seminole wind (Aug 22, 2015)

chickenqueen said:


> If you have your birds vaccinated you are not suppose to feed them medicated feed.The vaccine and medicated feed cancel each other out so you have nothing fighting disease.It's 1 or another but not both.When I buy vaccinated day olds I feed them flock raiser-it's high in protein- 22%- and other nutrition w/o antibiotics or hormones.


I didn't give them together. I vaccinated one year, and used medicated feed one year on different years.


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