# Svart Hona Eggs



## Poultry Judge

I said I was done incubating for the season. Robin is supposed to talk me out of such things. Alas, I have placed seven Svart Hona eggs in the incubator. I couldn't resist.


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## robin416

First you have to let me know what you're up to.

OK, I'm going to have to do some digging when I wake up. What the heck is different between this bird and the Ayam Cemani?


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## Poultry Judge

Essentially, they are Ayam Cemanis adapted for the cold. They were brought from Mozambique to Norway and Sweden in the 1800s but some say the 1600s. Greenfire Farms in Florida imported the first pair of Svart Honas from Sweden in 2012. They imported additional unrelated birds in 2013.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> First you have to let me know what you're up to.
> 
> OK, I'm going to have to do some digging when I wake up. What the heck is different between this bird and the Ayam Cemani?


If I would have told you, you might have said no! I was counting on you to read my mind and say no more chickens, (this year).


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## Poultry Judge

Poultry Judge said:


> Essentially, they are Ayam Cemanis adapted for the cold. They were brought from Mozambique to Norway and Sweden in the 1800s but some say the 1600s. Greenfire Farms in Florida imported the first pair of Svart Honas from Sweden in 2012. They imported additional unrelated birds in 2013.


I got my eggs from a breeder in Illinois, they are Greenfire stock. This breeder said that for right now, there are no new stock imports permitted. If the melanistic birds catch on as a fad, there's not going to be much stock available.


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## Poultry Judge

Poultry Judge said:


> I got my eggs from a breeder in Illinois, they are Greenfire stock. This breeder said that for right now, there are no new stock imports permitted. If the melanistic birds catch on as a fad, there's not going to be much stock available.


Allegedly, there is also a breeder testing three melanistic breeds genetically.


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## danathome

Hard to resist hatching eggs isn't it? One of my phoenix hens started to brood eggs I hadn't collected. Now I'm in a quandary as to letting her go or stop her. And Cher, the call duck, laid again so do I set more duck eggs or... Waste not want not...


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## robin416

Poultry Judge said:


> If I would have told you, you might have said no! I was counting on you to read my mind and say no more chickens, (this year).


Well, the Mason Dixon line is keeping your thoughts from getting down to me.


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## robin416

danathome said:


> Waste not want not...


I think you just answered your own question.


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## robin416

Poultry Judge said:


> I got my eggs from a breeder in Illinois, they are Greenfire stock. This breeder said that for right now, there are no new stock imports permitted. If the melanistic birds catch on as a fad, there's not going to be much stock available.


You'll be sitting in the catbird seat for a while then since they are so few and far between.


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## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> I said I was done incubating for the season. Robin is supposed to talk me out of such things. Alas, I have placed seven Svart Hona eggs in the incubator. I couldn't resist.
> View attachment 35962


I did not know the breed name so I Googled it. A quite interesting breed. I can see why you couldn't resist. I wish you every luck that all seven hatch.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> I think you just answered your own question.


Yup!


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## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> I did not know the breed name so I Googled it. A quite interesting breed. I can see why you couldn't resist. I wish you every luck that all seven hatch.


Thanks Dan! You guys know I will do enough research on melanistic genetics to put all of you to sleep!


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> You'll be sitting in the catbird seat for a while then since they are so few and far between.


I'm not going to be getting too far with a Svart Hona empire with seven eggs. It will be like every other breed, I keep a few of this and a few of that.


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## Biring

Poultry Judge said:


> If the melanistic birds catch on as a fad, there's not going to be much stock available.


The Ayam Cemani fad a few years ago saw some birds change hands for a small fortune, but it died down pretty quickly.


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## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Thanks Dan! You guys know I will do enough research on melanistic genetics to put all of you to sleep!


As a person that deals with insomnia on a regular basis, please do and I'll bore you with talk of frizzle, smooth, silkied and sizzles!

Of my last five chicks over a week and under a month, 2 smooth, 2 frizzle, and a silkied, seramas; no sizzle, Perhaps next time.


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## Poultry Judge

Biring said:


> The Ayam Cemani fad a few years ago saw some birds change hands for a small fortune, but it died down pretty quickly.


Yes, I was thinking about that, they are still a good 4H project for the students. In the end, in the West, what are the practical applications of these birds other than being a novelty? In other parts of the world they have more of a cultural function and application.


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## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> As a person that deals with insomnia on a regular basis, please do and I'll bore you with talk of frizzle, smooth, silkied and sizzles!
> 
> Of my last five chicks over a week and under a month, 2 smooth, 2 frizzle, and a silkied, seramas; no sizzle, Perhaps next time.


Yes, me too. Sleep eludes me often, so I read. I for one, am interested in any of your breeding experiments with Silkies or Seramas.


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## Poultry Judge

Poultry Judge said:


> Yes, I was thinking about that, they are still a good 4H project for the students. In the end, in the West, what are the practical applications of these birds other than being a novelty? In other parts of the world they have more of a cultural function and application.


Robin might get one and put a hex on me, that would be a good example of a practical application!


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> Well, the Mason Dixon line is keeping your thoughts from getting down to me.


I spent enough years in Harlan County, Kentucky, that will have to serve as a repeater station. I should have figured out how to retire there. My kids are here though and I think my daughter's practice will be in the Cleveland area. I mainly stuck around Ohio to be near my parents in their last years but I could move now. However, those are excuses, I crave stability and am not as restless as Robin!


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## robin416

I can see staying close to elderly parents. For the kids? Unless they're still in school not a chance. Kids move. I've got a friend who moved from out west to this side of the country to be near her son and wouldn't you know it, he moved for his work a few years later.


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## Overmountain1

Tangent time!! 
Yeah- I have been telling them for years to travel when they graduate (while it's easier) and to make sure they have a real skill that they can put to use whenever, even while traveling bc they can always earn money that way. 
I'm not sure I want them to go to college! I know that sounds nuts, and my family has all gone to at least some college.... but man! They're not right anymore- if you don't fall in line you can really have a hard time there. I'll admit it, we are conservative- and colleges are not the place for them right now.... I hope they can go back to being simply open ended/minded. We shall see. 
Point being, I told them I may not be here forever either. I didn't get to travel when I was younger and want to. I'll be moving for sure! 
Tangent time over.


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## robin416

I don't know if I posted this on the open forum or not but I've lived all over the country just because I could. I do not regret for a moment all of that moving. I got to experience a lot that can't be experienced staying locked into a known bubble. 

You're not wrong OM, if they have the chance and are not afraid of change they can learn a great deal just with that experience. 

There are community colleges. Very different from the university settings. There are trade schools, again not a university setting. I attended a community college and don't regret not getting some degree with a bunch of letters behind my name.


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## Overmountain1

Me too! I have a double Associates, and attended two different ones! Some here and some at Red Rocks in Denver. I did enjoy that time for sure. With my husband being the skilled worker he is with metal and gunsmithing, both the boys have a huge opportunity to learn that others do not. Whether they take advantage of that remains to be seen. My younger son has always ALWAYS wanted to be a farmer, but also have another job for himself. He’s turning 12- I wish I had things figured out as good as he does!! Lol 
My cousin is a diesel mechanic, his dad a master welder. There are always other ways to make your way in the world if you’re willing to work a little bit. And the $ is good and only getting better....


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## robin416

Lead by example is perfectly illustrated in your family's chosen fields. I was so frustrated when they kept pushing for university degrees and totally ignoring trade schools. If everyone went to a university who's going to do the things that trades people do? And learning a trade is so much more satisfying in the long term. 

My hubs was a union carpenter. I learned a great deal from him.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> I can see staying close to elderly parents. For the kids? Unless they're still in school not a chance. Kids move. I've got a friend who moved from out west to this side of the country to be near her son and wouldn't you know it, he moved for his work a few years later.


My kids are 27 and 24, I just want to encourage my daughter to do her own practice and not work for state governments like I did. Plus, I did a ton of travelling as a student and was a bit of a reluctant traveler. But I saw a lot of Europe, Africa and the East.


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## Overmountain1

Exactly! Skilled labor is so important! I grew up with a carpenter in the house as well... between us we can tackle pretty much anything! 

Yes, truly, I want the kids to be what it is THEY want to be. Not what they think they should be, maybe not what I would want for them, but just for them, that makes them fulfilled. Fulfilling work is the best kind of work, whatever it is.


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## robin416

Poultry Judge said:


> My kids are 27 and 24, I just want to encourage my daughter to do her own practice and not work for state governments like I did. Plus, I did a ton of travelling as a student and was a bit of a reluctant traveler. But I saw a lot of Europe, Africa and the East.


Did you actually light anywhere for more than a pass through of the area?


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## Poultry Judge

I went to college at Trinity in Dublin for two years, one year conservatorship at Victoria & Albert in London, one year at the American School Cairo and I lived for two years in a monastery in Mongolia. Then I did a year and a half with Medicine Sans Frontier in Africa. The rest of it was passing through.


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## robin416

So you did have an opportunity to "live" in some of the places. Really get to experience them. And I'm guessing learning which you'd rather not return to. 

The only other country I've lived in was Canada for a few months. Might as well be the US since there is very little difference between the two countries culture wise.


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## Overmountain1

I would consider you having lived the other places as well, gen if ‘just’ for school. Very cool though! Very diverse education facilities, thanks for sharing! 
I played French horn years ago, and I still swear I’m going to buy one (soon) when I get older and start playing again. They’re just so pricey!! Stringed instruments have always intrigued me too- especially the cello. Violins are good too but a good cellist.... oh. They’re a beautiful instrument. Jmo.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> So you did have an opportunity to "live" in some of the places. Really get to experience them. And I'm guessing learning which you'd rather not return to.
> 
> The only other country I've lived in was Canada for a few months. Might as well be the US since there is very little difference between the two countries culture wise.


I like Canada, you didn't consider staying there?


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## Poultry Judge

Overmountain1 said:


> I would consider you having lived the other places as well, gen if 'just' for school. Very cool though! Very diverse education facilities, thanks for sharing!
> I played French horn years ago, and I still swear I'm going to buy one (soon) when I get older and start playing again. They're just so pricey!! Stringed instruments have always intrigued me too- especially the cello. Violins are good too but a good cellist.... oh. They're a beautiful instrument. Jmo.


When I was at the Wallace Collection, I got to work on some Baroque cellos and that was very cool.


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## robin416

Poultry Judge said:


> I like Canada, you didn't consider staying there?


I was very middle of the road on staying there. I loved the country but it didn't have the opportunities for employment like the states did.


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## robin416

They still don't appear to have the good jobs. Many cross over from Windsor to Detroit and other environs for jobs.


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## Poultry Judge

Overmountain1 said:


> I would consider you having lived the other places as well, gen if 'just' for school. Very cool though! Very diverse education facilities, thanks for sharing!
> I played French horn years ago, and I still swear I'm going to buy one (soon) when I get older and start playing again. They're just so pricey!! Stringed instruments have always intrigued me too- especially the cello. Violins are good too but a good cellist.... oh. They're a beautiful instrument. Jmo.


The one on the left is a German Baroque cello I bought several years ago but haven't gotten around to restoring yet. The one on the right is a modern German cello from the Cleveland Youth Orchestra awaiting a new fingerboard and setup.


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## robin416

I had to search for this topic because it's been so long ago. 

What the heck happened with the reason for this topic? What is the status on the eggs?


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> I had to search for this topic because it's been so long ago.
> 
> What the heck happened with the reason for this topic? What is the status on the eggs?


OM! was interested in cellos. The Svart Hona should hatch on the 31st. I only have two viable eggs out of seven. The last time I purchased eggs, I don't remember which breed, from this breeder, the fertility rate was below fifty percent.


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## robin416

Is there a reason why there is such a fertility issue with their eggs? 

Do you let them know how bad the hatch rate is with their eggs? Some breeders prefer having good word of mouth spread about their facility. Having a less than 50% fertility rate is nothing to crow about.

Did you pick these eggs up or were they shipped? If shipped, did you check the air cells?


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## Poultry Judge

The eggs were shipped. I do check the air cells. Other breeders I purchased eggs from in 2020, the fertility rate was usually 70-80 percent, sometimes higher. In this case I wanted the Svart Hona eggs, there aren't many of them available and they probably don't have a problem selling all of them.


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## robin416

I don't like to complain because stuff happens. But a low fertility rate would have me contacting the breeder. Whether they chose to do anything about it or not was up to them.


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## Poultry Judge

Yes, i hear what you are saying but I think the low fertility rate is often accepted in low incidence rare breeds.


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## Poultry Judge

It would be like if I was selling Lord Derby eggs. I can't increase the fertility rate and there are only a few eggs in the country every year. And they are generally not for sale.


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## Poultry Judge

I think that's why the Old Timers sometimes won't sell but they will trade. I know I feel more comfortable trading birds or eggs. Maybe it was what I saw growing up. Folks were guarded about their rare show birds. There wasn't the commercial aspect there is today with people selling everything on the internet. I am dealing with a couple Old Timers from my father's generation, (not the Svart Hona eggs breeder, that is slightly more commercial I'm sure). With the Old Timers you have to tread carefully. You know what show birds they have, but they may or may not show them to you. And they don't often sell birds or eggs.


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## robin416

I wasn't even thinking that they might want to make you whole but many times a low fertility rate can signal a problem that needs to be investigated. If low fertility rates are understood in some breeds fine. But if any of my birds had that low of a rate, I'd want to know.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> I wasn't even thinking that they might want to make you whole but many times a low fertility rate can signal a problem that needs to be investigated. If low fertility rates are understood in some breeds fine. But if any of my birds had that low of a rate, I'd want to know.


Sure, I think Dan experiences some of this with his Serama genetics. I would say with my OEG Lord Derbys, usually around fifty percent start to develop and the hatch rate is about twenty-five percent. For a pure strain it is an old and fragile breed.


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## Poultry Judge

I have two Svart Hona eggs I think may hatch. One is making noise this morning.


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## robin416

You already know I'm waiting for success with the two.

Do you have any idea if the genetics are spread far enough that if you get a pair you can use them for breeding?


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## Poultry Judge

I don't know about the genetics. It's been a very long day. I worked on the dozer until after dark, put it all back together and it is still hydrolocked. It's looking like the source of the problem is a failed seal on the front cylinder's liner allowing antifreeze in the block to seep directly into the blower housing and lock everything up. When you crank the starter, it can compress air and diesel but not antifreeze. This is now most likely a Spring complete engine teardown. It's an unbelievable amount of labor again. I really don't want to do it in the Winter.


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## Poultry Judge

I hope both of these eggs hatch this weekend. I don't want to raise another single chick. I've had too many of those in 2020.


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## robin416

Ah man, I'm sorry. But that makes sense for you finding fluids in places they didn't belong. 

I don't know what to say about the eggs. Actually I don't need to say anything, you know what I hope the outcome is.


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## Poultry Judge

One is hatched, I've got to see what is going on with the other egg.


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## Biring

Bummer if only one hatches.


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## robin416

Please hatch baby. You'll have a lonely sib if you don't.

Fuzzybutt might have a new job, I sure hope not but of all of them Fuzzybutt would be the best choice.


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## Poultry Judge

Don't I know it.


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## Poultry Judge

The second Svart Hona chick is dead in shell, so yet again, I've got to raise one.


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## robin416

I am so sorry. 

If you keep doing this you're going to be the King of raising singles.


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## danathome

Poultry Judge said:


> Yes, me too. Sleep eludes me often, so I read. I for one, am interested in any of your breeding experiments with Silkies or Seramas.


Serama are a fairly new breed and not many were imported into this country. This has led to a lot of line breeding (inbreeding) so genetics is a problem. Last year my hatch rate was between 90-100 percent and then I did something that has caused me a lot of grief; I sold my main rooster in favor of younger ones that were more what I wanted to breed for. Now my hatch rate is extremely low. I have two new cockerels from WV. In a month or so they will be of age and I hope my hatch rate improves dramatically.
To make things worse, some people have crossed their serama with other breeds, but continue to sell their chicks as pure serama. Many of my original chicks were just such birds and I gave them away as mixed bantams. It is not easy to find good stock at prices I can afford.


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## danathome

Have you candled your Svart Hona eggs yet?


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## robin416

He had on hatch, the other was DIS.


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## danathome

I do wish all the posts in threads I like would come through to my e-mail; I miss so much the way things are.

PJ-sorry to hear of your bad luck.


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## robin416

danathome said:


> I do wish all the posts in threads I like would come through to my e-mail; I miss so much the way things are.
> 
> PJ-sorry to hear of your bad luck.


Are you getting some but not all?


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> Are you getting some but not all?


I get one post to my e-mail after I post to that thread.


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## robin416

Check to make sure this is clicked under your profile, preferences:

Replies to a watched thread
Someone replies to a thread you are watching
If it is then I'll have to let them know something isn't working right.


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> Check to make sure this is clicked under your profile, preferences:
> 
> Replies to a watched thread
> Someone replies to a thread you are watching
> If it is then I'll have to let them know something isn't working right.


It was checked. I have the same problem with "Backyard Chickens", so it might be my laptop and our internet connection is none to reliable in the country; satellite.


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## robin416

Or it's a Xenforo problem. That's the platform CF is on and I believe the same on the other website.


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> Or it's a Xenforo problem. That's the platform CF is on and I believe the same on the other website.


As far as I know, no one else is having the problem. I posted about it a lot on BYC and there were no answers.


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## robin416

Since it's happening in both places it does point more towards you set up somewhere. I don't use it because I hate having my email inbox inundated when I can just come to the forum and click on "new posts" and have everything current pop up.

I guess we need to see if anyone else depends on the email alerts and has the same thing happening. One of the things I know is part of it and now makes me wonder if this is the issue, it goes to being the topic creator and/or whether someone quotes you which will notify about new posts.


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## robin416

danathome said:


> As far as I know, no one else is having the problem. I posted about it a lot on BYC and there were no answers.


Tell me if you're notified about me answering you.


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## danathome

I received your first post in my e-mail following mine but not the second one where you quoted me.


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## robin416

It might still show up. I've noticed sometimes PM notices show up in my email long after I've answered them.


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## Poultry Judge

Yes, both the fertility rate and hatch rate were low. That is not terribly unexpected, I just don't like raising single chicks.


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## robin416

Poultry Judge said:


> Yes, both the fertility rate and hatch rate were low. That is not terribly unexpected, I just don't like raising single chicks.


No one does.


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## danathome

robin416 said:


> It might still show up. I've noticed sometimes PM notices show up in my email long after I've answered them.


It did not show up in my e-mail. And good morning all.


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## robin416

Good morning. I guess you've stumbled across another forum gremlin.


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## Poultry Judge

danathome said:


> I do wish all the posts in threads I like would come through to my e-mail; I miss so much the way things are.
> 
> PJ-sorry to hear of your bad luck.


It's okay, I just shouldn't take it personally sometimes. I've hatched so much over the years, usually, if there is any way to get a live chick to hatch, I can do it.


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## Poultry Judge

robin416 said:


> No one does.


Here is the little guy this morning, a whole day old. He or she got to spend a little time with the Silkie and Baby2.


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## Poultry Judge

And another..


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## robin416

Of course you're already giving it computer lessons.

How did the intro go?


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## Poultry Judge

The intro went okay, the Svart Hona is very interested in them. They are not as interested in it. But you know how it is, birds need birds to keep them going.


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## robin416

Yeah, the other two are buds. The baby is an interloper. 

If we were closer I'd give you a quail to put with the latest baby.


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## Poultry Judge

Yes, the baby is an interloper. Thanks, that is a kind gesture!


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## robin416

That might be something to think about having around since you're working with eggs that are hit and miss for hatching. The Quail really are laid back and make excellent companions.


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## danathome

Too bad you don't have a broody hen to give the chick to. I have two serama; each with just one chick.


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## robin416

That was one of the benefits of some of my Silkies, even if they hadn't been broody they were very willing to accept fostering a chick or chicks.


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## Poultry Judge

Maybe I will hatch some Quail again in the Spring.


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