# Deep litter



## powderhogg01

I have a question in regards to deep litter in the run. I currently have a deep litter in the coop, however, the linoleum for it has arrived so its time to floor and paint the inside. 
I do not want to send all that good deep litter to waste, and though I could move it all to a tarp, I am pondering starting the deep litter in the run as well. Start fresh in he coop as the fall season approaches, should be plenty if time to rebuild the deep litter before winter freeze. 
Should I just keep that deep liter in the coop or move it to the run and start a fresh in the coop?


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## Bee

Go ahead and move it to the run, where it's needed the most and start fresh in the coop. It should be getting a good mass on it by fall as you have said. 

If you can, take a pic of your soils in the run before you start the deep litter so you can compare by next spring...should be educational to show the difference in the compaction, color, smell, and diversity of life by then.


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## powderhogg01

Where I live in the Rockies there is very little soil, mostly just rocks and sand. I'm sure this will improve that. Haha, should i place something along the perimeter of the chicken fencing to help keep the litter in, like a 1x6 or something.


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## jaystyles75

powderhogg01 said:


> I have a question in regards to deep litter in the run. I currently have a deep litter in the coop, however, the linoleum for it has arrived so its time to floor and paint the inside.
> I do not want to send all that good deep litter to waste, and though I could move it all to a tarp, I am pondering starting the deep litter in the run as well. Start fresh in he coop as the fall season approaches, should be plenty if time to rebuild the deep litter before winter freeze.
> Should I just keep that deep liter in the coop or move it to the run and start a fresh in the coop?


There has been so much info on the ff, I think it would be great if we could start talking about this deep litter. How do you start? We currently have pine shavings in the coop.


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## Apyl

When I'm done with my deep litter I just throw it in the compost until I want to use it in my garden. But yes if you have mostly sand and rock the birds may enjoy it spread in the run.


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## Bee

jaystyles75 said:


> There has been so much info on the ff, I think it would be great if we could start talking about this deep litter. How do you start? We currently have pine shavings in the coop.


A lot of people think that deep litter is just putting enough bedding in the coop until it is deep and then cleaning it out when it gets too stinky or full of manure. That is not deep litter...that is just deep bedding that gets cleaned out and wasted and serves no purpose but to cause labor and expense.

Many people feel that one cannot compost properly in a coop with a wood floor structure and that materials would never break down properly...but they can and do if one has the proper height in the coop to accommodate a litter pack build up and the proper ventilation. In more arid climates, it is especially challenging but still doable depending on the bedding used.

Deep litter is like building a compost pile, layer upon layer of nitrogenous and carbonaceous materials, purposely layered for good ratio and composting of the litter. You can add moisture when needed, though moisture is often pulled from the air, from the urine in the feces, from the humidity produced by the birds and the metabolic process of the materials being digested by bacteria, yeasts, insects and larvae.

Because the deep litter digests the feces, flies cannot linger and procreate properly on the fecal matter...it is often buried in the litter by the birds or by us..just lightly turning over high manure spots in on top of the bedding every now and again. I find some times in the year I have to do this and sometimes I do not...it varies. It's not labor intensive and takes all of a few seconds if one has a pitchfork.

I used to really encourage the birds to toss their litter to keep it aerated and moving, but I've since come to value the term "pack" where the bottom layers remain undisturbed so the life developing there can thrive and continue to slowly digest the materials. Sometimes the chickens just burrow through it anyway and there is no stopping them, as they eat the life living there....but it soon goes back to normal and a new population begins to thrive..and the cycle goes on and on.

In coops with soil floors you may never have to clean out~like mine~and just continue to add all their lives. In wooden floor coops, the composting is slower and needs a little more finessing to digest but it is totally doable and one need only remove bedding once a year from the bottom layers..and never remove it all and start over. You don't want to lose the good bacterial and insect life you've established so well.

It requires a lot of ventilation..and I don't mean little holes cut out at the roof line or tiny windows in the side of the coop. I mean BIG openings for maximum airflow, for pulling humidity in and also for releasing it. For the gases from composting to be released and moved along. It requires ventilation down below and up above.

People worry about winter months with their birds and so they keep these airless, locked down coops and some even heat their coops in the winter...nothing could spell death quicker for a flock than tiny, airless, heated coops. Or even big, airless and heated coops. It's hard on the birds and creates an atmosphere where germs can thrive, humidity is high and birds get sick.

With deep litter underfoot in the winter, the birds have something to do, their feet are always warm, they can find protein rich goodies to eat there, the ventilation that moves the heat out of the coop sends a nice, warming flow past their bodies and out the top of the coop. No humidity lingers on combs and wattles, to freeze there later when they go outside.

In the summer it's even better...the bug life increases, the digestion of the litter improves and the incredible ventilation in the coop allows maximum air flow for night time sleeping.

Sorry to post so long...I haven't even scratched the surface of this method! There is so much to say about the benefits of using it that it could be a small book! I'll post more as we go along, but right now I have to stop myself...too good a subject!


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## jaystyles75

Thanks Bee, you are always a wealth of information. Our coop is 8x8 with one window, which we keep open at all times, and a full size door which we close at night. Is that enough ventilation? Not sure yet how we will work it in the winter. We have pine shavings now. Do we just leave that, and add to it, or do we start with something else?


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## Bee

How about posting a pic of your coop? I'll be better able to assess ventilation when I see what you are working with. 

You can leave that pine bedding where it lies and, according to your natural climate, build from there with a number of choices on bedding materials.


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## jaystyles75

Bee said:


> How about posting a pic of your coop? I'll be better able to assess ventilation when I see what you are working with.
> 
> You can leave that pine bedding where it lies and, according to your natural climate, build from there with a number of choices on bedding materials.











They use the side window as a door during the day, then at night we close the bottom & open the top that has a screen over it.


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## Bee

Wow!!! What a cute coop!!! Kudos! Love the rusticity of it and the good head room...

The large window opening is great for your down ventilation. The other side of your coop could have a large cutout window for your up ventilation and it should all work well as a convection of the heat and humidity up and out. 

Good to have one up and one down with the cross flow of air to work across the roosts so that the humidity of their respiration can be wicked out of the coop both winter and summer. Your birds will love you for the extra flow and light! 

When I open up a window in a wooden coop, I go for as big as the structure will possible deal with...it can never really be too big but it can be too small when it comes to air and light in the coop.


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## bcfox26

That coop is seriously cute!

Sorry, I have nothing to add about deep litter as I am still learning about it.


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## slatts

Bee said:


> Sorry to post so long...I haven't even scratched the surface of this method! There is so much to say about the benefits of using it that it could be a small book! I'll post more as we go along, but right now I have to stop myself...too good a subject!


There actually is a book that goes into the deep litter method in detail. 
http://www.amazon.com/The-Small-Scale-Poultry-Flock-All-Natural/dp/1603582908

I'm about half way through it and it has definitely changed my approach to coop design. Joel Salatin wrote the foreword so that gave it credibility to me. Excellent read.


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## jaystyles75

Bee said:


> Wow!!! What a cute coop!!! Kudos! Love the rusticity of it and the good head room...
> 
> The large window opening is great for your down ventilation. The other side of your coop could have a large cutout window for your up ventilation and it should all work well as a convection of the heat and humidity up and out.
> 
> Good to have one up and one down with the cross flow of air to work across the roosts so that the humidity of their respiration can be wicked out of the coop both winter and summer. Your birds will love you for the extra flow and light!
> 
> When I open up a window in a wooden coop, I go for as big as the structure will possible deal with...it can never really be too big but it can be too small when it comes to air and light in the coop.


Thank you! The coop is 100% recycled materials. My husband put more pictures of it in the large coop forum. The base is an old raft, and everything else is left overs from our house. My husband is very handy. He kind of had an idea, but things changed as he went along. Our intention was to have a window on the other side as well, but I think we forgot about it until it was too late. We will have to see if we can still put one in. We are in New Hampshire, so do we just leave the window & door cracked in the winter? It can get pretty cold.


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## Bee

I used to love all of Joel's books!! Until I went to his farm.....still love the info in the books but I saw many areas of his setup that gave lie to the books...he was not following his own advice, so he lost credibility a good bit at that time. I was horrified at the condition of some of his birds and rabbits and the conditions in which they were living...I think the greed monster got a hold of Joel and turned his head from his own precepts. 

I've used some of his methods on pasture and winter setups for livestock and they were good, don't get me wrong...he's just got feet of clay when you actually see his own farm.


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## slatts

Bee said:


> I used to love all of Joel's books!! Until I went to his farm.....still love the info in the books but I saw many areas of his setup that gave lie to the books...he was not following his own advice, so he lost credibility a good bit at that time. I was horrified at the condition of some of his birds and rabbits and the conditions in which they were living...I think the greed monster got a hold of Joel and turned his head from his own precepts.
> 
> I've used some of his methods on pasture and winter setups for livestock and they were good, don't get me wrong...he's just got feet of clay when you actually see his own farm.


I find it hard to believe that Joel mistreated his animals.


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## Chippets

Bee said:


> Wow!!! What a cute coop!!! Kudos! Love the rusticity of it and the good head room...
> 
> The large window opening is great for your down ventilation. The other side of your coop could have a large cutout window for your up ventilation and it should all work well as a convection of the heat and humidity up and out.
> 
> Good to have one up and one down with the cross flow of air to work across the roosts so that the humidity of their respiration can be wicked out of the coop both winter and summer. Your birds will love you for the extra flow and light!
> 
> When I open up a window in a wooden coop, I go for as big as the structure will possible deal with...it can never really be too big but it can be too small when it comes to air and light in the coop.


Bee, I want to do the deep compost in the pallet coop we're building, but I'm also concerned about the ventilation. Our area has winds that blow all winter long - we often laugh that if it was as windy back in MA where we grew up, people would be taping their windows for a hurricane! Seriously, the wind is bad and cold and it's dry. So I don't want the coop to be drafty with the wind blowing through it, but I know it needs to be ventilated. How do I balance it all out? We also have friends who have had chickens freeze to death here, which I don't want to happen....


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## Bee

slatts said:


> I find it hard to believe that Joel mistreated his animals.


I'd have no cause to lie about it. I used to really think he was the be all end all also until I got to see a few things with my own eyes. You are free to believe what you will, of course, and I can continue with the reality of what I saw.

His methods are sound when put into practice properly...but he isn't adhering to them like he states in the books and anyone with an experienced eye for livestock and, especially poultry, can spot that in mere seconds.


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## powderhogg01

So I took out about half of the lower level of the DL inside the coop and put it out in the run, I also placed some straw and hay which had gone bad.

My feed trough get flipped over every day, they love their FF!









Straw and hay with about half the DL on top. 








The ladies running wild. They all came in from the yard to see what's going on. Supervised by sarge, my buff Orpington roo.


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## kjohnstone

This is all very good for me since I am still just building my coop in my head. Keep it going!


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## jennifer

I mean.. What better answer can we get folks!!!?? Amazing. Thanks bee. even today you astound.


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## jennifer

This post is very interesting. Coming from somebody who helps others simply because she wants too... I would assume and believe that the facts are there that's just how people work!


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## Bee

Chippets said:


> Bee, I want to do the deep compost in the pallet coop we're building, but I'm also concerned about the ventilation. Our area has winds that blow all winter long - we often laugh that if it was as windy back in MA where we grew up, people would be taping their windows for a hurricane! Seriously, the wind is bad and cold and it's dry. So I don't want the coop to be drafty with the wind blowing through it, but I know it needs to be ventilated. How do I balance it all out? We also have friends who have had chickens freeze to death here, which I don't want to happen....


The deep litter will help with keeping them warm. I was looking for an article I found one day about the coops they used in Wisconsin in the early 1900s and the coops were all open air coops with a particular design. If I find it once again I'll post a pic of them...there is a guy up there making and selling coops from that old design and uses them also.

As long as the winds are not blowing directly on the birds in a cross draft, what happens with good ventilation is the fresh air coming in at the bottom and moving the warm air up and out. It doesn't necessarily mean that the cool air is then blowing on the chickens at that point but mostly a warm up draft of air from the composting floor litter and moving humidity out of the coop.

Humidity is the enemy, be it cold or hot. Birds with condensation on their combs and wattles are the ones susceptible to getting frost bite..this condensation can collect from their breathing, from their bodies pressed close as they roost and from coops holding the moisture from the outside air. The proper movement of air through the coop can make a difference in that and also deep litter absorbing and wicking some moisture into the bedding as some gases are exchanged in the metabolic process of composting.

In the winter I can shove my hand into the bedding and it feels pleasantly warm, not cold and wet. If managed properly, it should provide an insulation to the floor, a convection of warm air that is constantly moving up and out and dry footing, which is also important for winter warmth.

Each coop has a different atmosphere, according to the climate, the direction the winds blow in the winter, the size, even the shape...and several options for ventilation so that one can find the ideal air movement in a coop is essential for winter health and warmth.

This coop of mine is extremely open air and it was my first wintering of birds in it, so I buckled it down with plastic, tarps and hay bales and leaving what I thought was adequate ventilation open. I was wrong...my bedding started feeling damp and cold and I saw some darker tips forming on the rooster's comb at one point. I knew right away that I had closed up my coop too much and made it like a sauna..that was cold. Not comfortable.

So, I started removing hay bales here and there around the base to allow more air flow and watched the results. Better..but not quite the best. I finally had to remove most of the plastic off the front of the coop to get the desired results in this particular coop. This next winter I will know how to manage my ventilation better and not get too ground into the thought that the birds will get cold if I leave the coop pretty open to airflow. It was just the opposite...I had tucked them into a little cold sauna of their own body moisture and had only caused my litter to retain a lot of cold moisture as well.

After opening it up, my birds were immediately showing more comfort, the tips of the rooster's comb was restored to full circulation and color and my litter was back to being warm and dry instead of cold and wet. When I had the coop closed up I actually had condensation dripping off the ceiling of the coop! Never again.

Each coop is different and a person just has to play with the air flow...but having many options for opening up airflow is the key. In the middle of winter is the wrong time to get out the tools and start construction, so having it in place is always nice and then you can cover it, uncover it, etc., as you please.


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## GratefulGirl

Is deep litter possible in an elevated hen house? How deep must it be? I was pretty set on using sand but after reading your advice here & on BYC I am reconsidering.

I am also intrigued by the forest floor method in the run. Mine is 30 x 50 with the soil made up almost entirely of sand. Most of the trees on my 3 acres are cedar but there are also a few oaks & one pine tree. Now if I can only keep them alive during the extreme drought! More than 200 trees died on this property in 2011 drought!

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience with us!


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## Bee

It can and it may have to be removed at times to reduce the mass if the coop is lacking total ceiling height. Litter can be as thick as you want it provided the coop is tall enough to accommodate a deep litter pack. If you have a small coop, it's likely you have few birds, so your litter pack won't build up as quickly as you will not have to add too much litter at once. 

Eventually, though, it builds enough in a small coop that you need to remove some to make space for more...if you are building a pack in your run, this is as simple as scooping it from the coop to the run where you'll have more room to build a litter pack. The run will digest it quicker and require more litter, most likely, so it will still be an easy care and good solution for the birds.

If using a small coop for DL, remember that air flow is greatly reduced in small spaces so they require excellent ventilation for using deep litter..just like the bigger coops. 

If anyone is currently using or starting to use DL in a small, raised coop it would be educational for others who have the same if you document your progress with pics and good study on the nature of the litter in the coop, the humidity of it, the things you notice or adjusted, etc. I've never had a small coop so they are a different breed of cat for me but if I had one, I'd treat it much like a larger coop...just in mini me portions.


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## Chippets

Bee, thanks got all your knowledgable replies! So now I'm thinking - when we put the plywood down on the floor, should we leave a half inch space or so all the way around to help with the ventilation? Is that enough? Or would it be better to put hardware cloth down over the pallets and build the deep litter on that? The coop is raised about 7 or 8 inches in a sand area. I don't want to have a problem with mites and such either. I intend to fill the gaps in the wall boards with silicone and paint the interior white so it's brighter in there and there aren't a lot of crevices for little buggies to hide.


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## Bee

If you are using DL, the spacing at the bottom would be quickly covered over with litter as it builds up. Low ventilation can mean you leave some of those cracks open to the air. I wouldn't get too hasty about sealing up cracks except those directly around where the birds roost at night. You'll need those cracks later...

The whole idea of DL is to develop a place for predatory bugs to feed on manure~and these are the same bugs that hunt out and feed on mite larvae~spiders are attracted and feed on the predatory bugs and soon you have a total ecosystem going on. That's why I don't place DE anywhere near my litter...it's not selective about what bugs it kills and some of those bugs I need for a more natural system of mite control. 

At the same time, the nitrogen of the feces is binding with the carbon of the bedding and some composting is going on. 

DL also produces ammonia in the process of breaking down the materials...and ammonia is a mite deterrent. This keeps mites from living in or around the bedding.


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## powderhogg01

Bee said:


> DL also produces ammonia in the process of breaking down the materials...and ammonia is a mite deterrent. This keeps mites from living in or around the bedding.


I think you should clarify that the coop should not wreak of ammonia. If its pungent it's likely too much and something that should be happening is not. 
I only had a bad ammonia smell when the coop was damp and soggy this spring. I had very little ventilation, and because of that I had issues. I have since opened the windows up as well as added a bit more upper level vents. Above the big door, above the roost, right at the ceiling level. I also have 3 of 4 windows open, and have a channel by the door where air can flow in low, just over the litter. 
I highly recommend either painting the wood floor of the coop, or soon what I did and placing a full sheet of linoleum and water sealing the rest if the inside of the coop. It takes a full day where I am at for the adhesives and glues to dry and cure, so I let the girls to range and closed the coop off to them. It's just for the day I tell them as they look at me confused as to why I would close the coop.


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## Bee

This is true. Ammonia is a natural byproduct of composting but no one much smells a strong ammonia when they walk past good compost...and neither should they when walking into the coop.

Ventilation is the key and good management of the litter pack. If there is strong ammonia smell, either one or the other needs some tweaking. 

Should be no smell whatsoever if one is using FF, but if not, it might require more tweaking than using regular feeds. I know I had to adjust litter more while using regular feeds.


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## kjohnstone

powderhogg01 said:


> I think you should clarify that the coop should not wreak of ammonia. If its pungent it's likely too much and something that should be happening is not.
> I only had a bad ammonia smell when the coop was damp and soggy this spring. I had very little ventilation, and because of that I had issues. I have since opened the windows up as well as added a bit more upper level vents. Above the big door, above the roost, right at the ceiling level. I also have 3 of 4 windows open, and have a channel by the door where air can flow in low, just over the litter. ...
> .


Also be aware that ammonia is a heavier-than-air gas, so what you smell from a higher level is nothing compared to what you will experience lower down, so for our short little friends, make sure there is adequate lower cross ventilation (also keep in mind that ammonia gases are flammable, although the window from too rich to burn to too lean to burn is very narrow. Story about an ammonia-gas explosion where only the upper level of the room was actually burnt. Triggered when the gas reached the right mixture up by the ceiling light, then someone turned the light on..... Mental residue from my Hazmat training) ( Come to think of it, I think I have a really good layer of DLin my brain...Mental excrement)


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## Chippets

Ok, so you're saying the space I would leave around the plywood would not be enough ventilation for air to come up from under the coop? Sorry, I'm confused.


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## powderhogg01

I think what bee was trying to say is that the lowest half inch of the DL pack is well... Packed, if you do get a true DL going inside to coop, the bottom level becomes alive, it's living compost, it's digesting anything organic via bugs and critters. This decomposition heats up, that heat will rise up and out through your windows. 
Your pop hatch will likely provide all the lower air movement needed once the stuff gets going. 
I had it finally rocking in my coop, then realized, this bedding is digesting to coop. Oops, got a waterproof floor liner, and am painting it with a water proof white paint.


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## kjohnstone

-Ok, so you're saying the space I would leave around the plywood would not be enough ventilation for air to come up from under the coop? Sorry, I'm confused.







-

I don't think that is what is being said. Ammonia fumes are heavy, so they won't rise up. They will drop through the space, so make sure that the sub-floor is REALLY well ventilated. Also make sure for the kind of circulation Bee is talking about is that you have low ventilation just a few inches Above floor level. That will help allow the ammonia fumes to drop down and out as will as helping the full picture on air circulation. You will also have to be religious about keeping the spaces open as the chicks kick the DL around and it starts building up below the those spaces and blocking them. Much easier to make sure the low vents are _just_ above the DL level and on opposite sides. Do you think I have that right Bee?


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## Bee

I found that even the pop door isn't adequate ventilation at the floor level for a deep pack litter. I found this out by unwittingly opening another hole in the coop to create a visual window between broody and the flock and in doing so found my needed ingredient to keeping my DL from holding too much ammonia in the coop.

That extra hole was under my roosts and the first year I covered it in the winter, not wanting that large of an opening to allow wind to blow up and under the roosting area. The second year I neglected to cover it and found a pleasant side effect...no smells in the coop all winter. I keep my pop door open at all times, so it apparently wasn't providing the right amount of intake of fresh air..but that extra hole did and, boy, am I glad for that happy accident.

At that time I learned something essential about ventilation in a coop vs. drafts, as this was a very drafty coop anyway with many gaps in the walls between the old boards. What I thought would cause a draft did not...it opened into an open air brooder but cold winds could not blow directly into the hole..just a pleasant intake of fresh air at the bedding level. 

I found in my current coop that I had to remove hay bales I had been using at floor level to keep out excess wind at the front of the coop, to keep the condensation down at the back of the coop where the roosts were located. As long as the ventilation doesn't blow directly onto the birds, one cannot have too much ventilation when having a deep litter system. 

Chippet, I am having trouble understanding exactly how you are designing this gap around your plywood floor and would love a pic or further description. I just know that the deep litter, if done properly, will exceed 4-6 in. in depth and can even get to 1 ft. deep in some coops. Any gap to the flooring or at the lower portions of the wall that meet the coop floor that are only 1 in. in width are likely to be covered over with the litter at that point.


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## Chippets

Bee, I was just trying to figure out the whole ventilation thing. After reading the discussion I think it will be ok to go with what I was going to do before I got confused, and put down the plywood and seal it/paint it so the coop doesn't become part if the composting process. Then I will cut side vents around the coop about a foot above the floor and cover with hardware cloth from the outside before we put the outer covering of the coop in place. I was thinking about having actual windows in the coop but after reading these posts I'm thinking of just covering the window holes with hardware cloth and installing shutters to allow for more or less air. Does that sound right now?


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## Bee

That sounds great! The fun thing about DIY construction is that you can change it around as you go along and do whatever you want...I love that! 

I think when folks get nice looking prefab coops they are reluctant to change the looks of it by opening up new windows or walls to provide for better living.


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## slatts

Bee, Thanks for all the great information. I have a question for you. The coop that I am constructing is 8' x 8' and I am planning an open front with cross ventilation on at least two of the other sides. As of right now my plan is to have a dirt floor with deep litter. The open side will be facing East which is not a prevailing wind direction where I'm at in Texas. So I don't expect to get much rain going in that side. But I realize that that will happen occasionally.









I basically dug the whole area out with my tractor to sink the base boards. My base boards will be 10 inches deep and I've not returned the soil to inside the base yet. Now I am wondering if its just best to fill with litter. I have some old hay, horse manure, and wood shavings. Thoughts?


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## piglett

jaystyles75 said:


> Thank you! The coop is 100% recycled materials. My husband put more pictures of it in the large coop forum. The base is an old raft, and everything else is left overs from our house. My husband is very handy. He kind of had an idea, but things changed as he went along. Our intention was to have a window on the other side as well, but I think we forgot about it until it was too late. We will have to see if we can still put one in. We are in New Hampshire, so do we just leave the window & door cracked in the winter? It can get pretty cold.


we are in NH too (wolfeboro)
we leave out door open all day long unless it's down near zero 
then we close it but still keep our coop windows open from the top
i keep an eye on how humid it is in the coop
if i want it less humid i open the windows more

piglett


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## Bee

It sounds like a good plan on the ventilation...was wondering if you were going to put drainage ditches in the area right outside your wood base, or will you use some of the soil to bank up around that base to divert runoff water? 

I'm thinking, with it sunken like that, it may hold more water than you would like in your bedding, so maybe some fill dirt to bring it level and also banking up around the exterior, or the ditching, for water diversion around your coop base?


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## slatts

Bee said:


> It sounds like a good plan on the ventilation...was wondering if you were going to put drainage ditches in the area right outside your wood base, or will you use some of the soil to bank up around that base to divert runoff water?
> 
> I'm thinking, with it sunken like that, it may hold more water than you would like in your bedding, so maybe some fill dirt to bring it level and also banking up around the exterior, or the ditching, for water diversion around your coop base?


I am leaving the upper inch or so of the base board above ground level and will grade around the coop to drain away.


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## piglett

Bee said:


> It sounds like a good plan on the ventilation...was wondering if you were going to put drainage ditches in the area right outside your wood base, or will you use some of the soil to bank up around that base to divert runoff water?
> 
> I'm thinking, with it sunken like that, it may hold more water than you would like in your bedding, so maybe some fill dirt to bring it level and also banking up around the exterior, or the ditching, for water diversion around your coop base?


how about a drain pipe running from up under the coop to a lower point on the property? that way i can't ever flood.


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## Bee

Good plan! How nice to have the right equipment! Droolin' the heavy machinery....


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## jaystyles75

piglett said:


> we are in NH too (wolfeboro)
> we leave out door open all day long unless it's down near zero
> then we close it but still keep our coop windows open from the top
> i keep an eye on how humid it is in the coop
> if i want it less humid i open the windows more
> 
> piglett


Thanks! It is nice to hear from someone in the same area. We are in greenfield.


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## robinson4

So to start the process do you remove any of the fecal matter you have now or use it to get things going. I have sawdust and straw how thick to start of the first layer?


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## powderhogg01

Leave it be. Throw a bit of active compost and mix it up with your yard waste and what not. Turn your pen into a compost pit. Of sorts...


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## jennifer

Upon reading this I have noticed a sharp ammonia smell from the deep litter I started a couple weeks ago. I am assuming I need a draft coming from below? My bottom is raised and completely enclosed. Vents are at the top of the coop. I am able to drill or cut holes on the bottom. Should I do so?


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## powderhogg01

As bee would say, never too much ventilation when using the deep litter method. 
Give it a good mixing and try to get some extra airflow. Different size slots to allow different amounts of airflow. Make it so that you can adjust as you need to. I had to add several smaller slots to allow air to flow in all directions. A simple slider lock lets me choose how much to open it. I chicken wire over everything as well.


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## Bee

jennifer said:


> Upon reading this I have noticed a sharp ammonia smell from the deep litter I started a couple weeks ago. I am assuming I need a draft coming from below? My bottom is raised and completely enclosed. Vents are at the top of the coop. I am able to drill or cut holes on the bottom. Should I do so?


Yes, adequate ventilation at floor level will help the airflow immensely and move the ammonia up and out. Don't be a afraid to be bold with ventilation because you can always cover part of it if it becomes too much (which rarely ever happens). I suggest a way, like a door or flap, to adjust the ventilation in the winter months to direct airflow as needed. You'll need that airflow especially in the winter as the birds will be spending more time in the coop, depositing more feces and will be throwing off a lot of body heat and humidity.

I wouldn't use straw for bedding...it doesn't absorb well and it doesn't break down and compost well. It just sits there getting wet. Everyone who has used it has reported increased ammonia levels and moisture unless it was extremely minimal in their mix of bedding.


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## piglett

Bee said:


> I wouldn't use straw for bedding...it doesn't absorb well and it doesn't break down and compost well. It just sits there getting wet. Everyone who has used it has reported increased ammonia levels and moisture unless it was extremely minimal in their mix of bedding.


straw can also harbor mites 
i like my pine shavings 
never use ceder shavings which can cause breathing problems for birds

piglett


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