# Coffee Thirty



## robin416

Yep, that's what time it is here. This morning I've been sanding drywall, messed up shoulder or not. Decided it was time for a break and a Robaxin to relieve some of the intense pain. 

The husband person is not as good at finishing drywall as he used to be. Proof that sometimes that old adage of once you learn to ride a bike you never forget isn't always true. 

I can't quite believe how much drywall dust is everything. I touched my keyboard and found it all gritty, it's a good thing I covered the new TV or all that dust would have found it's way inside. 

Once this second cup of coffee is gone, I'll be back at it. That is if the Robaxin doesn't have me falling asleep.


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## Alaskan

Yep... Drywall dust is so fine it gets everywhere. I hope you are wearing a mask..not good in your lungs.


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## pinkmartin

Just remember it'll be so worth it when you are done.


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## robin416

Mask is sitting on the counter waiting on me to get started again. I never do stuff like this without wearing one but thanks for the reminder. Everyone needs to see it. 

I will finish the sanding tomorrow, the shoulder isn't screaming at me any more. Then a day of rest and the painting will commence. BTW, the reason I'm having to do this is because I took the fireplace out. Well, I took out part of it and hired someone to get the chimney out.


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## pinkmartin

I tend to get my mind set on doing things like that. I start like a steam roller. Then the ADD, fibromyalgia, arthritis, etc. Kick in. I've decided getting old sucks.


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## robin416

I'm with you on that.


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## robin416

I wish I had started on this wall first, it's taking so much more work than the others. 

I need to get the drywall mud out because I've found issues that sanding won't fix, another reason getting old affects things, he probably couldn't see it. 

After I get this area fixed, I will call it a day on the wall while the mud dries. 

The temptation to get my little orbital sander out is huge right now.


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## seminole wind

Dry wall is an art. I remember my husband putting up 2 sheets and using a hammer to make them fit eachother.. long time ago, LOL


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## robin416

LOL That sounds like something I would do when my frustration level is pegged.

My hubs hung and finished drywall professionally for commercial construction some years back. Over 20 years ago he hung and finished the drywall in the house we built, not an uneven surface to be found. What he's done on this wall is so not what I'm used to seeing from him. I really think he didn't want to deal with it.

I've fixed the issues that I found. Now let's hope my fix is the right fix and I can move forward with this. 

BTW, he has no idea I'm even finishing these walls. I guess he'll find out when he comes home for the holiday weekend.


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## perchiegirl

Mee need coffee.... Oh here is a quad espresso.... BREAKFAST.....

deb


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## robin416

Exactly, I don't even look at that wall until the coffee is gone. Need that little bit of zip the caffeine gives me.


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## perchiegirl

Where home imporovement is concerned I am great at demolition.... I suck at putting it all back together.... thats why there is a hole in the floor and a hole in the ceiling where a Coleman heater once resided.... Oh and a corresponding hole in the ceiling where a refrigerator once stood. The walls surrounding both came out quick because they were made with 2 x 2 studs....

And the electrical was hanging from the ceiling till i finally capped them off and poked them into the inuslation... Spare dry wall was inserted to keep stuff from raining down.....

By doing that my kitchen visually went from 8 x 8 sf to 10 x 12... practicallly there is no change because I still have to walk around the hole in the floor... Covered but not repared with a big chunk of plywood.

Yep Yep... I am going to turn the space into a penninsula... NO repairs are going to happen till I get the rest of the kitchen gutted. It needs new wiring new floor... so might as well remove all the drywall .... I would love to tear the ceiling down as well just to flippn KNow whats up there... I may still I hate flourescent lighting.

Oh and the six foot wide window that no longer looks outside to the back yard is going to be a cubby for a refrigerator and freezer... One day.... So that broken window wont get messed with till its time for it to come out. The cubby will extend into my bedroom about six to eight inches... No loss on my part. but that will bring full sized refrigerators flush with the existing cabinet depth... 18 inches.

sixty miles out in the desert makes it difficult to bring groceries home without them melting.... So I hope to grow my own and preserve.... Then buy a quarter beef or even a side for the year .... Or simply live off chicken and duck meat... Home grown of course.

deb


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## pinkmartin

That's my hope with this house. A huge walk in pantry with a big freezer. Can and freeze as much as we can. More space = bigger garden. Possibly even starting a small orchard area. Will take a few years to get it really producing but could easily supply ourselves with fresh fruit and berries. We are aiming towards living off the land on a limited scale.


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## robin416

Well, I can't say you win. I've got two rooms almost totally done now, the rest of the house to go. The electrical has been handled, the plumbing has been handled, the scary stuff is done. The only hole that hasn't been closed in yet is behind the fridge where it can stay until I go in and start scraping all that crap off the walls. But that isn't happening until the poorly done tiles are out of the living room and carpet put in. (That will keep the danged dog hair off every surface)

If I go in to the city, I go with freezer packs and bags so the food isn't cooked by the time I get home. I don't know about growing my own at this point because the danged house is using up too much time and energy. I would like a greenhouse though. 

I think some of the drywall dust got past my NIOSH mask, excuse while I go hack my lungs out. Dangit!


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## perchiegirl

robin416 said:


> Well, I can't say you win. I've got two rooms almost totally done now, the rest of the house to go. The electrical has been handled, the plumbing has been handled, the scary stuff is done. The only hole that hasn't been closed in yet is behind the fridge where it can stay until I go in and start scraping all that crap off the walls. But that isn't happening until the poorly done tiles are out of the living room and carpet put in. (That will keep the danged dog hair off every surface)
> 
> If I go in to the city, I go with freezer packs and bags so the food isn't cooked by the time I get home. I don't know about growing my own at this point because the danged house is using up too much time and energy. I would like a greenhouse though.
> 
> I think some of the drywall dust got past my NIOSH mask, excuse while I go hack my lungs out. Dangit!


hey at least you are doing something about it... The holes in my Kitchen have been there twelve years at least....







The whole deal of living alone has its down side....

deb


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## pinkmartin

Oh it'll take years to get where we want to be. We will do a bit more each year. What we can afford as we redo the house. If we get it, we will hit the kitchen first and go from there. Eventually, the plan would be a larger garden, bee hives, orchard, small green house. Possibly a feeder calf and pig each year and expand on the chickens. Sort of a mini farm. If we do well with growing our food, eventually we would add a root cellar. Tbh I'm surprised the house doesn't have one. But who knows what may be on the property, long forgotten?


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## perchiegirl

pinkmartin said:


> Oh it'll take years to get where we want to be. We will do a bit more each year. What we can afford as we redo the house. If we get it, we will hit the kitchen first and go from there. Eventually, the plan would be a larger garden, bee hives, orchard, small green house. Possibly a feeder calf and pig each year and expand on the chickens. Sort of a mini farm. If we do well with growing our food, eventually we would add a root cellar. Tbh I'm surprised the house doesn't have one. But who knows what may be on the property, long forgotten?


I would love to have a root cellar.... Digging is the big issue... BUT I have seen bunker styles.... Cinder block walls with dirt piled up against the walls to keep it cool inside.

One of the things I didnt think of when I bought my pressure canner.... is the canned food should be stored in a dark cool place if possible... Or I could build a food locker in the green house room.... Hmmm... Gotto think about that one.

deb


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## robin416

perchiegirl said:


> hey at least you are doing something about it... The holes in my Kitchen have been there twelve years at least....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The whole deal of living alone has its down side....
> 
> deb


Don't make me laugh, it makes me cough.

Not sure that's a downside though. Means you will get it done because you're ready to do it and not because it affects someone else.


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## robin416

Deb, just make a hatch of the hole in your kitchen floor and use that as your root cellar. Might as well get some benefit out of it after 12 years.

I do miss my pantry, pink. Right now I'm using a closet in one of the spare bedrooms for everything that won't fit in the thing that suggests it's supposed to be a pantry. 

Our issue is where we are in our lives, do we really want to take on that much at our ages? I don't think so. We're so heavily treed here that alone would take forever to clear out enough to plant other things. And the trees are why there is no greenhouse, not only the shade but the huge limbs the Live Oaks lose.


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## perchiegirl

robin416 said:


> Deb, just make a hatch of the hole in your kitchen floor and use that as your root cellar. Might as well get some benefit out of it after 12 years.
> 
> I do miss my pantry, pink. Right now I'm using a closet in one of the spare bedrooms for everything that won't fit in the thing that suggests it's supposed to be a pantry.
> 
> Our issue is where we are in our lives, do we really want to take on that much at our ages? I don't think so. We're so heavily treed here that alone would take forever to clear out enough to plant other things. And the trees are why there is no greenhouse, not only the shade but the huge limbs the Live Oaks lose.


LOL... the "house" is actually a mobile home someone built a stick house over the top of... Crawlspace under is just that... belly high... My butt would have a trail if insulation following it...

But I do like the idea of converting over a closet...

I probably still will windup building a super insulated room off the kitchen I want a summer kitchen out there... For the Pressure canner and the processing equipment scalder plucker etc....

I have a sketch of it somewhere.. All built on a deck I want between the front door and the back door... Not so big really about 20 feet long and a very short Ell to reach the back porch.

Sorry guys but this house was built by a man... not with the idea of having to keep it clean or stock it with provisions. Most times when I have had notices from the fire inspector or casual passers by... they leave them on my laundry room door....

If I had a million dollars the house would go.... and I would have built on grade a stick house of my own design.... Easy flow for input easy flow for out put... and vehicle access for both.

I like the spot and some of the features..... Just want something a little better floor plan wise.... LIKE NOT HAVING TO GO THROUGH the BLEEPING KITCHEN to the only bathroom... Little stuff like that.

Or something so refreshing as to knowing WHICH BREAKER BOX runs what... the house has two and there is another on the pole a THOUSAND feet from the house.... where the meter is.

Or to know which pipes serve what AND WHERE THE FLIPPING WATER MAIN is... enough to ask?

I really cant complain.... I bought property that had a well and electrical and phone service. Oh and there happened to be a house of sorts there too. Not listed in the MLS...

In the past fourteen years I have replaced the booter pump on the Water tank... Three thousand gallon tank for water... Is it plumbed to the house? Um that would be a NO. I have replaced the Pump saver switch in the pump house... Because the old one was broken... when it went off the water was shut off to the house for TEN FLIPPING DAYS.... that first year I learned to bathe from the water tank water sitting on the front porch in my PAJAMAS. Cold water and If I held the hose higher than the water level in the tank.... No water....

All my animals were watered by gravity from that tank for the first couple of years.

Oh and I have replaced that booster pump MYSELF for the second time.... Figured out the plumbing got some help and an education on the use of PEX... But the guy wouldnt touch the wiring.... New pump bought from Granger instead of the GOUGING well guy... cost me half the price for a better pump and learned the skills to do it myself the next time.

so four years ago My well pump goes out.... Not the booster pump but the WELL pump hanging by conduit down in the well 450 feet. Found a non gouging well guy... amazing how much better prices are when you pay CASHIE MONEY.... He was the original one that put the well in in the first place. He recommended a smaller pump. Saved me bucks... and because of that it was less likely to suck sand through it.

Lost all my livestock when the well went dry with the exception of my horse.... I was hauling 250 gallons of water from the city every three days... for Goats, Chickens and horse.... Because my Coop wasnt in the front of the yard I couldnt get water back to themm.... so i opened the coop so the chickens could drink near the fence where the goats were. My neighbor said the chickens lasted three days... My goats were got by feral dogs...

So... during all this... I find out my well IS going dry....

Took the wind out of my sails.... its a hundred dollars a foot or maybe even more now to drill a new well... Probably need to go a good six hundred or more feet.... and thats just the drilling part... Not the lining or a more roebust pump to push the water up six hundred feet.

When I go back I am hiring an electrician to sort out my wiring issues... then someone who can assess my well ad give me a prognosis.... There is no company in place where I can buy water and have it trucked in... Unless i get my own water truck.

3000 gallons doesnt last very long... even if I only brush my teeth and drink... Oh and a navy shower now and then.

Sorry Rosco.... I always write a book.

deb


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## Alaskan

I love your books deb!


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## pinkmartin

If we every build a root cellar, it'll likely be partially dug, partially above ground. Just to store canned foods, potatoes, etc. As I get older, and as my fibromyalgia progresses, I really believe there are strong links between commercial foods and my health problems. I like the idea of knowing where my food comes from, what it ate, before it was my food and how it has been preserved. If we happen to get that house, it actually has a smoke house. I'm not sure if we would use it for that or for storage. 

My husband has lowered what he's willing to bid on the property. I understand his reasoning, and I certainly want to get the best deal we can, but I feel the dream slipping away. I just have this bad feeling that my praying isn't gonna get the house. I keep hoping no one else will show up lol.

I really want a pantry with a counter in it to hold all the small appliances. I hate cluttered countertops. I want a well organised, well stocked, prep area that Will help keep my dream kitchen pretty. A place to hide away a freezer and possibly an extra fridge. We live in the boonies. I hate driving to town for groceries. 

I love your books too deb. Keep writing.


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## Alaskan

I hate that I am sure it is a big cause of my high electric bill.....


But....

I love my jillion fridges. 

I have one regular one in the kitchen, another one in the mudporch, a full size upright freezer only in the pantry, and a full size regular fridge for beer and ice in the TV room kitchen.


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## pinkmartin

My uncle's house has 3 kitchens. The normal family one. A small entertaining one, and in the basement, a canning one. Lol he lives alone. His family room has a bar so all his meals are from a mini fridge and microwave. 3 kitchens and uses none of them.


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## Alaskan

Ha! We use all of our fridges... And our house isn't super big... It only ended up with two kitchens because it is a typical Alaskan moron house... More kept getting added on.  

It started life as a concrete bunker with a dirt floor.

Then they added a log home kit on top of the concrete bunker. The log home kit had been found floating in the bay... So it was a few logs short of a full kit. Works great, but the side walls are a tad short.

Anyway... They put a kitchen in the log home kit that became the second story... But that entire log home kit is less than 600 square feet... 

So the second owners added on... A "real" kitchen etc.


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## pinkmartin

Ha! That's great. The old farm houses here are like that. Started as 1 or 2 rooms. Most built mid 1800s to early 1900s. Seems like every few years they added. The house I live in now has some of the very first electric wiring ever made. You can follow the wiring and see what rooms were added when. Every floor slants a different direction. No 2 doorways are the same size. None of the walls are square. Some of the interior walls still have exterior siding on them. It's like it was built by Dr Seuss' less fun, drunk brother. You can basically sit on the toilet and brush your teeth in the sink while washing your feet in the tub. There are 2 closets in the entire house. Neither closet is in a bedroom. 

I hate this house. 

There are 2 breaker boxes and 3 fuse boxes. There are 2 outlets in the house that are live even if the main breakers are flipped. I still haven't figured out why. They are in different rooms.


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## Alaskan

What is the difference between a breaker box and a fuse box? Doesn't a breaker box have a fuse inside each breaker?

Anyway, my house has three boxes. It only has one electric meter.  but there are two big metal boxes by the meter. Hummmmmmm. Now I wanna go look and see why.... Maybe tomorrow.


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## pinkmartin

When a breaker blows, you just reset it. When a fuse blows, you fumble around in a junk drawer with a flashlight for 20 mins cussing and then remember that After last time you moved the new fuses to the shelf by the fuse box. We have only 1 meter too. But there is a fuse box and a breaker box next to each other in the bathroom. Also a breaker box and a fuse box in the laundry room. Then there's another fuse box outside. I think it's for the well pump but I'm not sure.


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## Alaskan

I thought that there was a fuse inside the breaker... And usually the breaker just flips, but sometimes the fuse inside the breaker pops and has to be replaced.

Maybe I am misremembering everything.....


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## Alaskan

That that that was how my car worked too... Thought I remembered a fuse and a switch...

Sheesh...


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## pinkmartin

I dunno. Never had to replace a breaker. I think I've heard they can wear out.


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## Alaskan

I have had to replace three now.... I think..... Uh, well more than one


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## perchiegirl

Alaskan said:


> I have had to replace three now.... I think..... Uh, well more than one


breakers trip and shut off the power.... Fuses have a wire inside that melts when too much power goes through...

Breakers do wear out though. and the whole thing has to be replaced.. the one running the booster pump on the water tank was so worn out that you had to hold it on in order for the booster pump to come up to speed.

A sign that the circutit for that pump is too small. Tecnically I can run that pump on 220 IF I had 220 service. Higher voltage lower amps better on breakers and motors.

Here I have an issue with low voltage as well so Ideally I should have a power conditoiner on every line that is running a motor. What this does is buffer the power so its consistent output with an an inconsitent input.

Low voltage wears out motors in REfrigerators, fans, etc. Because the motor requires a certain amount of Watts to run.... Low voltage and the motor will draw higher amperage to make the wattage.... Higher amperage above what the motor is designed for will burn the motor out... eventually.

I have lost one refrigerator now.... spent 600 new in 2003... to replace it with the exact same model....1700 dollars. So Needless to say i am reluctant to replace my refrigerator till the power issues are resolved.

For what its worth I only know snippets about power.... through designing mechanisms that are machine driven.... And enough about house hold power to replace a light switch or outlet.... and to turn the breakers off and still use only one hand. So I wont get killed.

Last electrician that came to the house to look at my breaker... said the house was NOT grounded close enough. It was depending on the ground that went back to the power pole.... 1000 feet away at the pump house.

I can have him come out and do an estimate and an analysis of what is going on... What I should fix... and how much demolition will have to happen. He said it would run abou 500 dollars. But welll worth it. At the very least He will drive a propper ground stake and get the house grounded.

deb "whos electric bill was 4.99 this month" The only power I have on at the house is running the well for horse water.


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## Alaskan

Oooooh! 4.99 for electric! Drool!!!


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## perchiegirl

Alaskan said:


> Oooooh! 4.99 for electric! Drool!!!


down boy...









when I live there its about 50-60 a month....

IN winter double that... I use an oil radiator heater just for my bedroom.

I heat water and cook on propane. but use the potbelly in the main part of the house if I have company... but I only heat my bedroom

The R value on the house is pretty dang high... with one foot thick walls. So once I get the living room heated I dont have to keep burning wood all night... Just let it burn down...

Oh and I only go through 250 gallons of propane every two years.

deb


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## pinkmartin

My husband works in propane. We get it at cost and still struggle to hear thru Ohio winter's.


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## robin416

I declare that I am done sanding. I am sorry the hubs chose to use teflon tape for the joints. I now have drywall mud sanding dust every where. I have also given myself gastritis again taking NSAIDS. 

After the Robaxin takes effect it's time to get out a bucket of water and start cleaning all that dust off everything, that might actually be going on for years since it seems to have gotten way past where I was working. At least I remembered to turn off the ceiling fan and close my bedroom door.


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## robin416

Deb, reading about your adventures with the house brings back memories when I was living on an old wood Chris Craft 45 footer. The adventures were never ending. Some fun, some just jam packed with frustration and concern.


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## perchiegirl

pinkmartin said:


> My husband works in propane. We get it at cost and still struggle to hear thru Ohio winter's.


Last time I bought propane I hadn't been there to purchase propane in over three years.... Because of that I got the propane at cost. Customer retention policy... and the very first time I had the propane tank filled to capacity.

But to be honest it doesn't get cold enough here to heat. Yep in the winter you can see your breath in the living room but the pipes have only ever frozen once. That was when the Jet stream dipped down to touch the mountains and dropped the temperature down to 10 degrees... One single night. Broke an exposed pipe in the Green house room.

I was working sixty miles away in town. My roommate called me hysterical... she couldn't shut the water off and she had been trying to mop the green house room to sop up the water. I tried to tell her how to shut the water off.... but she couldn't figure it out. i had just started a new job and had to ask for the rest of the day off. Thank goodness the boss understood.

I flew up to the house armed with pvc pipe cutters and a pipe cap... I had to buy two because I couldn't remember the size of the pipe. I shut the well off before I got to the house... Shut the water off at the TWO flipping water mains in the Utility room, as well. (still dont know which one shuts the water off to that pipe) She couldn't figure out that the water "faucets" were different than a regular hose valve.... and that they just turned 90 degrees to the pipe to be off....

Went in the green house room and showed her the drains where the water would have gone... There was really nothing on the floor out there that couldn't get wet... Just my stuff. There had been no need to mop... a concrete floor.

Took me five minutes to cut and cap the pvc. Thank goodness the glue works on wet pipe.... Went back out to the well and turned it back on... Then back to the house and turned the water on and bled the air out of the pipes... Viola... fixed.

Cost me 40 cents for the caps 14 bucks for the cutter 20 bucks worth of fuel and 200 dollars for a days pay.

A month later she called me "Theres no water in the house" The wells broken.... hysterical again.

I called the well guy and had him meet me at the house. Again had to leave work. Pump was working fine... There was water in the big tank... he charged me 150 dollars for nothing. I went to the house and there was water but it was moving very slowly. So I checked the water filters... BLACK with sand. So I pulled the filters out. Viola water pressure. Then she complained that there was sand in the water... and that the screens on the faucets would clog up... So I removed the screens... Then she complained that sand was going in the laundry.... I told her to live with it. were talking about four or five grains of sand for each laundry load... She had already refused to drink the water when she moved there....

The deal is she was a horse friend I assumed understood life in the country... Soo wrong. She washed clothes Every Flipping day... she justified it by using cold water. I tried to stress to her that the pump in the well would suck sand if the water table got too low.... Then she complained that she couldnt wash the sidewalks or her cat litter boxes because the water pressure outside was not enough to squirt water....

I didnt explain it... or the fact that all she had to do is turn the booster pump on to get water out of the big tank. Oh Yea I did tell her how to do that... But she didn"t remember how.

It took me a further four years to get her out of my house... and a further two years to get her crap out of my house.... All in all she lived there longer than I did.... Best way to sour a freindship is to become roommates.

We didnt part on good terms. If I see her now in the grocery store I will leave the store. Her parting shot to me was horrific.

deb


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## perchiegirl

robin416 said:


> Deb, reading about your adventures with the house brings back memories when I was living on an old wood Chris Craft 45 footer. The adventures were never ending. Some fun, some just jam packed with frustration and concern.


But you know the experience was well worth it... Dealing with probelms makes us stronger. Through challenging living situations you learn skills you never thought you would...

I have had three homes...

The first was a mobile home... Probably the best layed out and largest home I have ever had. Two beds Two baths a laundry room huge living room and dining room.

The second was a small Stick built house in a very old neighborhood... Best I could afford. Because I was six months pregnant and the mobile home park didnt allow children. But the house was three small bedrooms and one bath and a very small kitchen. I learned how to wire outlets there....

And finally this house I have now... Got an offer I couldnt refuse on the one above... which was on a 60 x 60 Lot... Got almost a quarter of a million for it back in 2002. (If it had been maintained I could have gotten an additional 100K for it) The fellow who bought it was a superintendant for a Land Developer. and during the Cedar fires here was a hero for saving his neigborhood in the hills... He had hot wired a water truck and fended off the fire on his block... But he still lost his house.

So His boss talked to me and we worked a deal. He would help me find a place to live with land and I would sell him my house.... He was honest enough to give me a fair price...

So out of that I wound up with 18 acres and a house that didnt exist... and have been happy with it ever since. No mortgage... lost money on it when the bottom fell out of real estate here... By a full HALF. but I dont care.

deb


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## seminole wind

I bought a new sprinkler timer. The old one had a mind of it's own. Are they easy to replace yourself? Is the timer itself the only thing that has current and if I unplug it I'm good to go?


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## perchiegirl

seminolewind said:


> I bought a new sprinkler timer. The old one had a mind of it's own. Are they easy to replace yourself? Is the timer itself the only thing that has current and if I unplug it I'm good to go?


I replaced the one here at Grandmas house... they are very low voltage... and yep unplug it.

its only when you have to pull and strip wires I get nervous.

deb


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## seminole wind

Okay. So I guess it's a matter of stripping wires and matching them up? The one we tossed out, well I just could never understand how complicated they can make "run each zone for an hour on sundays at 11pm" How hard is that? Well this new one looks user friendly. No dial. You can see what buttons are pressed.


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## perchiegirl

seminolewind said:


> Okay. So I guess it's a matter of stripping wires and matching them up? The one we tossed out, well I just could never understand how complicated they can make "run each zone for an hour on sundays at 11pm" How hard is that? Well this new one looks user friendly. No dial. You can see what buttons are pressed.


Nice part about it is once you make the connections you can test it out, pretty quickly.

I did the physical hook up and let my son do the programming. worked out well.

We are getting ready to pull out all the irrigation though. only allowed to water lawns twice a week for five minutes. Most lawns are dead or dying...

deb


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## seminole wind

Yea we have water restrictions in Florida. But we never have to water from June till September because it rains just about every day. I love the weather here.


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## robin416

The purpose of my post can now officially come to an end. My mud knives, mud, paint brushes, rollers, paint can now be put away for the time being. I declare myself done. For now. I still have to paint the crown mold but that has to wait until the hubs drives some brads deeper. I can't do that any more, the shoulder says no. 

So, I'm having my coffee thirty early. Going to rest a few and then tackle the mess I made and catch up on the things ignored while I was singularly focused.


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## seminole wind

Yea, I got into curtain torture yesterday. Thought the rods for a 10 foot wide patio door trio was going to be just a swap. Not. I have to remove 2 rod holders, forgot to buy a third. The two up there are not usable. I got spackle in a tube to fill all holes up there. So far, it's taken most of a day. I'm not done. Maybe today I'll finish it .


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## robin416

The joys of home ownership, one thing gets done and more surface. I still have to drag the genny out and see what all I need to get for it.


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## seminole wind

robin416 said:


> The purpose of my post can not officially come to an end. My mud knives, mud, paint brushes, rollers, paint can now be put away for the time being. I declare myself done. For now. I still have to paint the crown mold but that has to wait until the hubs drives some brads deeper. I can't do that any more, the shoulder says no.
> 
> So, I'm having my coffee thirty early. Going to rest a few and then tackle the mess I made and catch up on the things ignored while I was singularly focused.


Robin, I have a 7 foot round in ground hot tub made out of cement. We had a propane heater with a tank double the size of the tub. We removed it and replaced it with an electric one for the few times we use it. Then it had a leak somewhere in the tub, like behind a tile. I tried prying the tiles off but they took wall with it. So I ended up emptying it, scrubbing it with that acid and a metal brush, repainting with 3 coats of waterproof paint. Tiling down about 8 inches on the sides and grouting. It is now beautiful and works well. But it took forever, and I am glad I'm done with the whole thing. Well that project is over for a present 2 year break. Yeah! It does take a while to recoop to the point where one starts thinking about doing something again. Right now I'm looking at some new fence or pens, and repair. At least I'm early retired since last week and can get into a project.


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## pinkmartin

My parents got their hot tub a very long time ago. Always something wrong with it. Its down far more than usable. It's working again at present. I told mom she best enjoy it while it lasts. Are they all so delicate or is it just theirs? I know they can't use chlorine based chemicals. The stuff they have to use smells gross. Bromide? Bromine? Idk. 

Hubby has changed his mind on the house. Now he wants to buy a newer ranch style on 2 1/2 acres. Its a foreclosure. Neighbors close on both sides. Smh. I want a big old farm house. I don't want to rub elbows with the neighbors every day. I want seclusion. A house with history. I think his parents have convinced him to look for the easy road. Not a total rehab. But the foreclosure has been empty several years. Could have burst pipes and mold. No way to know. Can't see the inside without buying it. Sheriffs auctions are as is. No inspection. No guarantee. Any info he knows bout the house is what the guy next door told him. The fact that he pulled in the driveway and the guy next door got off his porch and came to talk to him about the house is evidence enough for me that the property is too small. Too close to neighbors. I mean, I guess I can live wherever but I feel like if I have to help pay for something I should have a say in what we buy. I don't think I will ever love a ranch style house. Its not who I am. I was born in the wrong century.


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## robin416

I was looking forward when we bought this place. The requirement was no steps after seeing my Mother and MIL struggle dealing with flights of steps. This is supposedly our last home, maybe. 

This was also a foreclosure, actually the second one we bought. Neither was an auction property. One was bank owned, this one was HUD. I know it was empty for two years before we bought it and found out later there was another two year period of standing empty. For the most part it was intact, yes there were some plumbing issues more due to age than any freezing. There were some electrical updates that were necessary but again, nothing major. There were some really poor design choices which I'm still struggling to correct but that has nothing to do with over all solidness of the house itself. 

One other concern was insulation, did it exist was there enough? Turns out yes to both questions. 

We don't see her here often but someone I know bought an old farmhouse. I love the look of it. It took them nearly a year of rehab before they could finally move in. The last time I talked to her there was more that needed to be done. I think they bought it more for the land than the house. 

But I'm like you, I prefer more isolation. We have thick stands of trees between us and the neighbors so we don't see them and very rarely hear them.


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## robin416

Sem and pink, my doc tried to talk me in to getting a hot tub for pain relief. Listening to you two, I'm glad now I never listened to him.


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## Alaskan

I hate people --blah--- You need more land

Also, as a married couple, you BOTH have to be happy with the house, if you don't like it veto it now.... Don't agree to move in and then fester.


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## robin416

Alaskan said:


> I hate people --blah--- You need more land
> 
> Also, as a married couple, you BOTH have to be happy with the house, if you don't like it veto it now.... Don't agree to move in and then fester.


This isn't what I wanted either. I wanted one of the old houses but in looking as seeing the amount of rehab I've come to appreciate this house and it's positive attributes. But I also have a bit of property attached to it. Seven acres but it's almost all behind the house.


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## Alaskan

The problem with my house, is even though it foes come with a bit of land... It is long and skinny, so NOT as private as I would like... But it is the best I could afford.

Spouse and I actually agreed on the house.

We looked at lots of other stuff... But most was vetoed by one of us.


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## pinkmartin

That's the thing. He wants me to give up the big old house AND 1/2 the land. And he's the one who usually is harping on not getting less than 5 acres. Don't get me wrong. I want great neighbors like we have here. But I don't want them included in every conversation (like we have here). I don't have any privacy. I feel claustrophobic all the time here. I want my forever home to never feel closed in.


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## pinkmartin

Btw, I'm a spoiled brat. If we buy a house that I don't love... I will never be happy there. Its who I am lol. The only reason I agreed to the current house was that it was for 2 yrs. Its going on 4 yrs. The next house will be our home until we truly can't manage it anymore and have to move to an assisted living place and wear matching drool bibs. I hope that's a long time.


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## pinkmartin

Alaskan said:


> The problem with my house, is even though it foes come with a bit of land... It is long and skinny, so NOT as private as I would like... But it is the best I could afford.
> 
> Spouse and I actually agreed on the house.
> 
> We looked at lots of other stuff... But most was vetoed by one of us.


That's how the ranch style is. Its 2 1/2 acre but it's very narrow. So the neighbors are really close.


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## Alaskan

VETO the ranch house, VETO now before he starts the ball rolling!


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## seminole wind

I will never buy another cookie cutter ranch.  Had enough. Our dream house was a sprawling custom ranch on 2 acres. It was beautiful. The house was set back 200 feet. The original house was from the 50's. The addition was 10 years old. There was a wall that both old and new roof met and that carried the weight. Well hubby and I opened it between the kitchen and dining room and THERE WERE NO STUDS!!! Just empty paper studs that crumbled. The termites had eaten all the studs. So we did end up rebuilding the wall with 4x4's and left our new doorway. But I have learned. There is no way to check for the worst termite damage unless you rip walls up. That house was gorgeous, a real farm house looking thing. And probably had eaten up studs and we would never know where. Ended up selling it and moving to Florida. My house is made of concrete block here. We just worry about sink holes now.


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## pinkmartin

So I got fun news about the house situation tonight. My in-laws are "helping" us but a house. One that I am expected to help fix up and help pay for and then maintain. Basically, they are buying the house and we will buy it from them either on land contract or get a loan ourselves in a year. I was just told that the ranch is better. 

The big selling point for them is that the ranch will be easier to resell. So of course I asked... What happened to it being out last home? Well, their plan is... If something would happen to my husband, they will sell the house. Wth? I have to help pay for a house that I get kicked out of if my husband dies? That's great! I'm ready to tell them all to buy whatever house they want and shove it.


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## robin416

I can't say on here what I'm thinking. Simple put oh hell no!!! That kind of thing wouldn't ever get off the starting block with me. 

But then I had in-laws that were every bit who others would like to have and my hubs would have told them flat no and don't bring it up again.

I don't live in your household so I'm not even going to venture saying what you should or should not do. All I can recommend is don't do anything while carrying a 2x4 around while the discussion is going on.


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## pinkmartin

This is what really goes on behind the scenes in Christian families. My fil is a preacher. Nicest people you ever met. Until you are part of the family. 

I could spit nails right now. We will be the ones paying the pmt from day 1. I was told I have to get a job if we buy a house. Period. I realise that if something happens to him I may not be able to afford it on my own. But does that mean everything we paid for is for nothing? Why not keep renting? Or maybe I need to find my own place. That's how I feel right now.


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## robin416

You're between a rock and a hard place and the only one that can make whatever decisions is you. 

If you need to sound off about it, don't hesitate to say so.


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## pinkmartin

Right now I'm trying to calm down and think with a clear mind. If it would happen that the house has to be sold, would it be sold at its true value and after paying off the loan, I get the rest? Idk. I feel like my sweat and money should count. 

I mean, honestly they aren't young. They aren't healthy. We will most certainly outlive them. But the fact that they are already planning to put me out ticks me off. 

I appreciate that they are willing to help. I don't expect a handout. By our age we shouldn't need them. But it's the principle of it. If you want to help, do so without reservation. If you have reservations, don't help.


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## robin416

So, how do you protect yourself? Is hubby willing to back you up if you want a contract drawn up? 

This makes me think of someone I knew for years. She bought a house with her son's best friend, the first thing out of my mouth do you have a contract? Are you protected if he decides to sell or dies?


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## pinkmartin

To be honest, I kinda doubt it. That's the scary part.


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## pinkmartin

I'm real close to asking my grandpa to put a trailer on his farm for me and my son. If grandpa was in better health I prolly would. As it is, I hate to burden him.


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## robin416

Maybe you shouldn't think of it as being a burden but a help if he's not in great health. I imagine he wouldn't mind have his grandchild and great grandchild running around the place.

Do what you were working on, thinking without emotion. Do what you feel is right is protects yours and your son's interests.


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## pinkmartin

I'm considering it. And I could do a lot of the self sufficiency plans I had. On my own.


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## pinkmartin

I wonder how hard it is with no credit to get a business loan. The place I used to work closed down due to bad management. Its for sale. I'd love to leave him and start my own business and be successful and run all their snooty noses it it lol


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## robin416

One thing at a time. 

SBA loans are available but you have to have a business plan and whatever all else. But you don't want to be trying to deal with that and the situation you have now.


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## pinkmartin

Lol yeah just thinking ahead. My dad is in the zoning board. The trailer on the farm is a no go. Twnship no longer allows trailers. That sucks. Really makes me mad that a few days ago he was as excited as I was to possibly but the farm house and rehab it together into our dream house. Then suddenly he's all for buying a newer house that's easier for them to kick me out of.


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## Nm156

Is he lending the money or co-signing?
Is the old farm house up to code?


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## pinkmartin

Lending the money. And no I'm sure the house isn't completely up to code.


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## Nm156

If something was to happen it is very hard to sell if not up to code.Buyer would have to have cash.
That might be why he wants to do a new house ??


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## Alaskan

You need to be firm,

"A house is a big investment, that BOTH parties must be completely happy with. You have the right to veto any house that I like and you don't, and I have the right to veto any house that you like that I don't. I do NOT want to buy that house, we are NOT buying that house." 

There is no reason to mention the loan, there is no reason to mention his death and you then getting kicked out, there is no reason to mention anything except the line I have in quotes above.. .. Keep repeating it to him.

Refuse to sign papers to buy it, refuse to get a job to pay for it.

Even unhappily married couples need to learn to work as a team in certain matters.... House buying is one of them.


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## robin416

Thing is, if his parents are footing the money he can buy it without her name on it. 

I agree, refusing to have anything to do with the wrong house under undesirable circumstances is probably the only option. 

Time to kick the hornets nest because that's what this is.


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## Alaskan

Yep... I agree.


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## pinkmartin

Basically, his parents are gonna set it up so when they die he gets the house. 

He says that putting money in the house together is for our good. Even tho we will essentially be renting the house until its either paid off or they die, we will be responsible for all repairs and upkeep. He does not understand that everyone is protected in this scam but me. He says since they will own the house If something happens to him he doesn't expect them to give me anything. 

Chances are nothing will happen to him. But the what if scares me. He says it's no different than where we live now. Except where we live now, we don't have to pay if the well pump goes or the hot water heater goes out. There we will be making the entire house pmt and also all upgrades and repairs. 

At this point I'm wondering if I even get to choose a paint color. Clearly he sees it as their house and then his house. 

This also tells me I don't have any real say in what house gets bought. As long as he approves, they'll buy it and I'm sposed to tag along on his heels like a puppy.

This wasn't said exactly, but I can read pretty well between the lines. 

I don't even want a house anymore. If I could afford it I would stay in the house I have by myself.


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## pinkmartin

My understanding is that there will be nothing in writing except the will saying the house is his when his parents are gone.


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## Alaskan

I am so sorry for what you are going though!


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## pinkmartin

Thanks. I'm just frustrated. I was raised that when you get married you share everything and you have each other's back. 

He says my job will be to buy groceries and pay utilities. His to pay for the house. In my mind no matter what the money specifically pays for, its all marital assets and it all pays for everything. At this point even if I like the ranch, I won't say so. I'm too mad. I wanna see if they'll move forward even if I hate the house. That'll make things really clear.


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## Alaskan

Sometimes though people can be SUPER clueless.... That is why I would repeat, at least 10 times, the stuff I have in quotes up above.


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## pinkmartin

Oh, I intend to be very clear if I don't like a particular house. I just don't think it will matter. And yes, I think we should BOTH love a house that we get.


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## seminole wind

The only thing you're really doing is trading one rental for another. I would not move into that house until there's some contract that specifies what is yours in all this. Is this your husband's son that's your son?

The other thing is check the laws. Without a will, whatever is your husband's becomes yours if purchased during your marriage. That's how it is in Florida. We need a will to make it different. I would not be making any deals with anyone who can't respect you enough to put it in writing. 

Then I would be learning a trade. It's a good feeling when you know you can make it financially on your own just in case. It means that you don't have to end up doing things you don't want to.


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## perchiegirl

gosh this makes me glad I never married Bad enough to deal with that kind of manipulation from your own family.... and WHY I bought sixty miles out in the middle of NO WHERE.








the white square is my horse shelter the blue roof is my house the red oblong structure is a 40 foot shipping container.

LOL my horse corral is larger than my house and front yard


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## Alaskan

Deb! Your picture didn't make it!


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## perchiegirl

Alaskan said:


> Deb! Your picture didn't make it!


How about now xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## robin416

Nope.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.


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## perchiegirl

still cant figure out how to put text in between the picutres because I cant see them till they are posted.

deb


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## perchiegirl

robin416 said:


> Nope.
> 
> The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.


My message says "how about now" thirteen characters. without quotes


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## seminole wind

REALLY Bizarre. Hubby asks me why I left the hot tub running. So I figured one of those little screw on things fell off. So I go out to the box outside the patio door (_before coffee!_ open the box, nothing wrong. The little screws on start and stop are fine. So I just can't figure it out. So I automatically slide the manual lever to "off". wait a minute. Why is the tub lever manually on?

There's a timer that works, the tub comes on for an hour a day to filter. Then there's a lever for turning it on and off manually, like if you want to use it. There is NO way you can turn it on accidentally. The lever is not easy to flip on. You have to open the box first.

My husband is flipping out that someone turned it on. Oh yea, someone climbed the fence and specifically turned it on and that's it? I do not sleep walk. But that would be the only logical answer.

I remember looking out at the tub at 7pm last night to see if it's raining. You can see the rain hit the water. It was not raining, so I went out and gave the chickens a treat. So it was not running at 7pm. I went out to close the coops at 8pm. It was not running. We have 2 patio doors. One is on one end to go out towards the chickens and the other is to the far right to let the dog out. So it's not even like I walk past the box .


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## seminole wind

Deb, you have electric and cable or internet out there?


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## pinkmartin

We have no children together. I will say tho, I have gotten exactly $12.35 in child support since January. My husband has done everything possible to make sure my son has what he needs and even planned our weekend vacation (all we could afford) around my son's interests. He also did a lot of the work and most of the financing to build a coop and run and fill it with chickens. He's not all bad. 

As far as the house, if purchased, it will be in his dad's name until a.) We pay it off, (or) b.) His parents both die. So if they outlive him, I get nothing. He has life ins. But basically it's enough to bury him. 

I used to have skills that would support me. I worked in healthcare until I could not due to my fibromyalgia and other issues. I can't lift patients anymore. I did a lot of office work, but when I was dealing with cancer and unable to work for several years, a lot changed. I don't know all the new programs they use in offices now.


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## pinkmartin

I babysat at one time. Actually made good money. Allowed me to stay home with my own kids and my mom could fill in when I had cancer surgeries every few months. My husband doesn't want me to babysit. He says when he gets home from work He doesn't need to deal with someone else's kids. That was another good point about the big farm house. Huge yard and huge house. Plenty of room to watch kids and then not be in his way. And I could also watch my soon to be born granddaughter. My daughter doesn't want anyone else watching her.


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## pinkmartin

Seminole, maybe you have a neighbor borrowing your hot tub in the middle of the night?


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## perchiegirl

seminolewind said:


> Deb, you have electric and cable or internet out there?


Kind of is the best answer. Kind of telephone if it rains it goes out.... Power technically but I am at the very end of the power lines so it fluctuates... My last CRT monitor used to shrink and grow shrink and grow images. When I switched to LED (power consumption on those is much lower) it went away. but the power wobbling killed my refrigerator.

Cable Um that would be a resounding No. When I was living up there the only thing available was Dialup. Netzero was my go to for internet... Awesome dialup product. Decent email too. As long as I didnt try to up load picutres or down load pictures.... whew boy...

The ONLY TV is through Satelite... either Direct TV or Dish Network. no matter what they say they are pretty much the same.

Hughes is probably the choice I would have to make for internet when I move back. But then I have to choose... TV Or Internet...

The deal is Huges on its lowest subscripton level has a bandwidth limit. I have friends that are in the middle of No where and use Huges... They would have to go off line before the end of the month... Or wait to view or download photos till off peak hours...

I can go to the library they have a T1 line... That would be to pay bills and upload to dropbox... for business purposes.

For what its worth when I move home I will be living on 1000 a month maybe less... I have to set aside 100 a month for property taxes, 75 a month for car insurance. Right now my power bill is 4.99 a month... but when I move up there that will jump to about 75.00 a month. Propane is paid all at once every two years last time it cost me around 400 +-... appx 10 dollars a month. Just for hot water and cooking.

So I have to set aside about 300 a month for fixed bills That will leave me 700 for food, diesel, Feed, and extras.

170 a month for Horse feed is ten bales
75 a month for poultry feed 150 lbs feeds about 40 with alot of waste
40 a month for alfalfa for four goats two bales
50 a month for dog food
315 total for livestock feed

700-315 = 385
A tank of diesel is 35 gallons right now at this moment here its running 2.85 a gallon so I budget about 100.

so for 285 a month i have to get food for myself Internet and connection Internet will be around 49 TV is around 49 So if I go for both... I will have 185 for food for the month.... or 50 bucks a week give or take.

So I have to figure out a way to give myself a buffer till I can get on Social Security... Five years and it will be a decent amount ten years it will be almost three grand... But I am not certain the system will hold up for that long.

Dont ask about health insurance... still working on getting on The Medi-CAL version of Obama care.. here in California. I have fallen through the cracks twice now... F em they can take my tax refund of zero.

Im not bitter...

deb


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## pinkmartin

Deb you sound like me. Our money situation is a lil different but not much. We do get a small tax refund which I always try to convince hubby to use to fill the propane tank and the freezer. I have a food saver. If I shop sales on meat, in 2 months I could have enough variety of meat, all vacuum packed in single meals in the freezer for a year. He doesn't see it. The other option is when/if we get land to buy a cow and pig to butcher and fill the freezer. His mom told him a power outage would spoil all that meat. Hmmmm. I thought that's why we have a generator which he is working on right this minute to know it's ready for the winter. I just checked potatoes. I should have enough when I dig them up, properly stored, to get us through a few months. Doesn't sound like much but when meat is scarce, we cut back on meat and use beans and potatoes. This year we will also have the eggs of course. Of we get really hungry, there's the rirs. Lol I will have to decide which is worth more. Future eggs or chicken for 2 or 3 meals. I think in a past life I lived through the depression. I can stretch food like no body's business.


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## Fiere

Late to the party again:
PM - Id dig my heels in like an old savage mule about that house. Absolutely in no way shape or form would I go for that. I love my husband but I love my sanity more - and I would not be sane in that situation. 

Money here is tight as well, we live on 2000$ a month roughly for our family of three, plus bazillion animals. Hubby has a fairly good job for the area but it keeps the bills barely paid, my farrier services are feast or famine - some months I'm flat out every couple days, other months I might only see 8 horses. Just depends on how the schedules fall.
We raise a few meat birds and a pig each year. Sadly I couldn't grow a plant to save my soul so no garden for me. I am a religious sales-paper shopper and aside from bread and milk everything I buy is on sale. I keep some non-breeder roosters to run around the yard each year so that when and if we get to a spot where money and food are tight, I can go out and slaughter one or two. A pot of soup goes a long way and we always have noodles, potatoes, carrots and onions to toss in. I can stretch a penny into copper wire, but money burns a hole in hubby's pocket. Makes for some interesting arguments at times.


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## perchiegirl

Yep that whole freezer issue and power is something i deal with. For what its worth keep every space that would be open filled with containers of ice or frozen water jugs.... What that does is mitigate the power consumption on the freezer by keeping temperature fluctuation to a minimum.. but it also provides a stabilizing factor for WHEN the power goes out. 

Good for a couple of days if you dont open the freezer.

The other deal Is I want to start Canning when I get up to the house. I have to assume that Refrigeratoin will be too expensive to run up there. Some months....

So Canning is an excellent option. Anything that is meat can be canned.... Raw meat or cooked there are only a few differences in canning. So far as I have read. I havent actually canned anything ... 
But desperately want to learn. 

YOu can even can dry goods... Either straight in the oven or pressure canned... and the Vacuume method. Which I am leaning toward on the last.... You can buy 25 pound sacks of rice and beans and can them in quart sized jars put in a dessicant pack and vacuum seal it. The demos I have seen say you can use the used pressure can lids so you can recycle those lids that normally get tossed.

My kid is grown but I cannot imagine budgeting that closely with them. 

OH and for what its worth you can can butter.... keeps on the shelf a very long time once its clarified... they call it Ghee in India... 

Pasture doesnt exist here so raising a Steer would probably cost as much as buying it in the store I still have to talk to a few people before I made my decision on that. I could probably raise a pig... but I like pigs too much to slaughter one of my own.

So My best choices would be goats and sheep... Feed to meat ratio... they can browse some here but not enough for keeping fat. So Alfalfa it is. My four goats were butter fat on what I fed them. Though The pygmy would be a better choice for meat... They are a meat goat in Africa. And then I would like Barbados Blackbelly sheep... They are leaner and are hair sheep so they dont need to be shorn. 

I dont need milk or cheese... in my life. I can get vitamine D from other sources.

For red meat I probably will depend on Muscovy... you can make Prochuto and pastrami with their meat or cook it like a steak...

Fresh veggies are store bought here though I would like to give aquaponics a try so I would have a few things I cant buy in the store... Like fresh Blackeyed peas. And plain old English peas... I can sit and shell and eat those instead of popcorn... 

I might also try a raised bed in the green house room. But I will never be able to kneel and swat down to dig in the dirt. Bad knees and arthritis... even if I do get my wieght off they will still be my bane.

deb


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## pinkmartin

Isn't it amazing that we go to extremes to save on what we need and do without what we want but when they want something Its automatically a need and they spare no expense?


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## pinkmartin

Deb there are lots of veggies you can actually grow in your window sill from scraps. I rarely buy romaine lettuce anymore. I grow it from nubs I bought some time ago. I'm learning about growing other stuff the same way. Lots of articles online about it. I keep powdered milk, all my flour and some other dry goods, wrapped well, in the freezer. Just like you said. Keeps the space full and temp constant. I have on occasion even used bricks to line the bottom when there's less food. Raises the food up so it's easier to reach and also keeps the temp cool.


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## pinkmartin

I do but a lot of produce at aldi when it's cheap. We try to eat as much produce as we can afford.


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## seminole wind

Fiere, it's time to add "Barefoot Trimmer" to your farrier services and add $20 to your trim fee.


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## Fiere

I trained Barefoot Performance, and while some people screech All Natural Hooves!!! from the top of their lungs and use it to scam people out of money - I prefer to be sane


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## seminole wind

Fiere, I really got to hand it to you to do a job like that. It is not easy by any stretch of the imagination. Then also dealing with some strange characters that own horses. 

I've been letting the barn owner's farrier do my horse, he does everybody's horses. I just gave up doing my own horse. However, here we go again with someone who thinks that Tennessee walking horses need long toes, and a lower angle. I just want a nice balanced trim that any horse would get. She's short bodied, and when the toes get long, she forges all the time.


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## Fiere

Id rather the horses over the owners most days LOL. Though I must admit the majority of my clients are awesome.

That's the one thing that irks me about "traditional" (old school?) farrier-ing. A hoof is a hoof is a hoof. The only thing that should change the trim is the horse's conformation and weight bearing/wear patterns. The end goal should always be soundness, balance, and proper function. Not knee action, length of stride, or discipline. Doesn't matter if the horse wears shoes or doesn't wear shoes, competes at high level or mows grass - a hoof is a hoof. They're all different and have various quirks and need to be trimmed as individuals, but the outcome should be the same.


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## seminole wind

True. You can leave my mare with long toes or short toes and she still gaits the same. Actually just trim the hoof like she wants it, and pasture roll it. Each horse is an individual. My horse toes out, and she has since I got her that way at 4 years old. She's 14 now. A few years ago I had an old school farrier who was hell bent on correcting her toeing out. It wasn't her toes toeing out. Her whole leg toes out. leave it alone!!!!! He would leave the medial/laterals at different lengths to fix her. I could pull my hair out. (bad picture, makes her look like she has an enormous head)


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## robin416

seminolewind said:


> Fiere, I really got to hand it to you to do a job like that. It is not easy by any stretch of the imagination. Then also dealing with some strange characters that own horses.
> 
> I've been letting the barn owner's farrier do my horse, he does everybody's horses. I just gave up doing my own horse. However, here we go again with someone who thinks that Tennessee walking horses need long toes, and a lower angle. I just want a nice balanced trim that any horse would get. She's short bodied, and when the toes get long, she forges all the time.


It drove me crazy when I moved to TN Walking country and trying to get farriers to quit trimming Max's heels off. He spent all of his life with a short toe and long heels and none of them could wrap their heads that I didn't want them changed at 15 years old.


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## seminole wind

pinkmartin said:


> Isn't it amazing that we go to extremes to save on what we need and do without what we want but when they want something Its automatically a need and they spare no expense?


Absolutely. In 1989 when I got separated, for 4 years I delivered papers, and my daughter and I lived a lot of Kraft Macaroni and cheese (3 for a buck) and large amounts of ziti which were froze in dinner portions. For years we never bought soda or dessert, we lived on Kool aid with 2/3 cup of sugar, not a cup.

However, when the horses needed something, out shot the credit card and there was no limit on spending on what they needed!


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## seminole wind

robin416 said:


> It drove me crazy when I moved to TN Walking country and trying to get farriers to quit trimming Max's heels off. He spent all of his life with a short toe and long heels and none of them could wrap their heads that I didn't want them changed at 15 years old.


I know what you mean. I was at a gaited barn for 4 years that had no customers that built up shoes. It was barefoot or a plantation shoe (like regular). They all gaited fine.

It takes forever to get those run forward heels to get some length without running forward. I was very lucky to have the best farrier on Long Island for 20 years. Then I moved to Florida and was lucky to have a farrier who insisted on telling me what the do's and don'ts on my horse and mule to keep them healthy. Then he moved. Then it was one bad farrier after another. So I learned to trim. I read everything I could get a hand on, was on a forum with farriers, and did a 5 day course with a great farrier which included 3 days of frozen cadaver legs to practice on as many as we wanted. That was a great opportunity.


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